Is anyone out there in AOS land using an Arkless modified CA 540 Azur phono stage. If soo, just how good are they?:)
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Is anyone out there in AOS land using an Arkless modified CA 540 Azur phono stage. If soo, just how good are they?:)
Hi, it's a 640P that is modded not the 540.
I've had one on order since about end of July begining of August, can't wait to be honest.
The reviews on the wam and on pink fish are really very good, don't you have a really nice phono stage for sale at the minute?
I don't own one myself but I have had Jez's loaner unit at my house and listened to it. In short, it's very good and reminded me strongly of the Linn Uphorik.
The Arkless modded phono preamp is very good value. I only had the lower priced phono's to compare with and it blows them out of the water.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outcast
I havn't compared it with a £800 phono but others have and compared it very favourably.
The 640P and 651P are the units I mod (they are identical circuitry).
You will find loads of info and reviews over on pfm and there's an "official" review on the wam... a place I'm apparently banned for life from :steam:
All the best people are banned from the Wam Jez.
Pray tell?:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics
Having looked at the early pics I agree that taking most of it out would improve the sound greatly! Compared to the Cambridge version I can understand why this unit was chosen for modification.Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
Aye, i certainly do. I am selling that one to fund my next one which will be a Ming Da 2006. I was considering an Arkless jobbie to use with my Lenco.Quote:
Originally Posted by twotone
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outcast
If it's the same amp that's for sale here then it looks a beauty, bit too rich for me otherwise I would have bought it.
I had the loaner from Jez. It's good and I can see why people like it, but I did not feel that it compared favourably with Uphorik or DV P75. I wanted it to, because I could have switched and pocketed the difference, but I think there is a danger of unrealistic expectations when particular items become flavour of the month on the forums and people start portraying them as giant-killers. I'm sure it competes well with other phono stages of similar price. All credit to Jez for a very good attitude and the confidence to allow people to try his products.Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
I had a sneaky listen to one of Jez's modded 651P when it was out on loan :eyebrows:
I had my 640P and a 651P original's on hand to compare it to
Basically it blew them both out of the water its very quiet, transparent and 3 dimensional and has good bass slam I liked it a lot, the originals sound completely bland by comparisson.
I know Jez won't agree with me here but I have a couple of 12VAC wallwarts that do 2amps and IMO they sound better than the supplied walwart, both of us listening stated it just takes a slight hard edge off the treble
Alan
I hear what you are saying. As is often the case with my posts they are intended to be taken absolutely literally. When I said it reminded me of the uphorik I really meant in terms of presentation and character - not that it was literally as good in absolute terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonddek
The bottom line is that it leans more toward the mechanical than the organic - but it's still less monochromatic than the Linn ;).
My recommendation - build, borrow, buy, beg or steal a Paradise :) - it really is that good.
Even I would agree with that.... I doubt there is much that will beat it in terms of speed, grip, pace, tonal accuracy etc but more can be done in terms of "space" , "air" etcQuote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
Remember this is £160 + postage! (you do need to supply one to be modified of course but even if you buy a new one at £119 to send to me, as many have done, it's still a bargain). Sonndek has been the only real dissenter so far... others have preferred it to £800 and even £1800 phono stages... check all the reviews at: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/s...d.php?t=126877
Yer can't please all the people all the time ;)
The Dynavector (at £675 I believe) is regarded as a giant killer in its own right and yet at least two have preferred the Arkless... Apparently it's quite a close run thing between them..... they say the Arkless wins on pace, dynamics, "PRaT" etc and the Dynavector just has the edge on 3D ness of soundstage etc
Check out the many reviews folks..... or book a demo.
My new offering whilst a lot more expensive should redress the missing areas admirably I believe... watch this space as they say.
PS The Paradise would be probably in the £5K plus region if it were offered commercially! ;)
I've heard the Dynavector as we were loaned one for one of Andrew's previous 'turntable bake-offs', but I wouldn't say I know it's sound. I wasn't bowled over in any way, but then my focus wasn't really on it.
The cost of the Arkless is really paltry in comparison to pretty much all the phonostages I have listened to, which has to make it a bargain
As Jez says, the Paradise would be 5 or 6k if retailed, so it is little wonder that a £200 stage does not equal it.
I'm running an Arkless at the moment (we did at Scalford earlier this year), it gets a big thumbs up from me, it has speed, dynamics and timing. I'm using it with a SL1210mk2/Acromat/RB301 and Goldring Eroica LX LOMC, it's pretty stunning, and doesn't take prisoners, feed it rubbish and that's what you'll get, 'honesty'.
There is now a "Turbo" version of the Arkless 640P available! For further details see http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...213#post486213
Oh and there's a first customer review at http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/s...d.php?t=144966
Would you be willing to send it to Simon Jez, I would be interested in hearing it whilst my memory of the standard mod is reasonably fresh in my mind.
I'll be popping up to see him with the Paradise in a couple of weeks Mark i can tell you all about it, and t'other if it's finished.
I would rather hear it than hear about it...
The demo unit should be sorted by the time Si gets here so yes I'll be interested to hear what you both make of it. This is not intended to be a rival to the Paradise BTW... just to take on the £800 - £2000 range with a vengeance and hopefully beat the likes of the Uphorik and Superline!
My answer to the Paradise is WIP.... Watch this space as they say. Transimpedance amplification with zero feedback does indeed look interesting. Both simulation and brief breadboarding of practical circuitry is leading me to believe that I may be able to offer a rival to the Paradise that doesn't need a thousand transistors in order to be able to match them well enough. Early days so far though....
Yep, I quite understand - I don't see it as a competition - just very interesting.
Don't forget at some point to give me a listen, if you can knock-up a MM-only version (no point in having any unneccessary 'gubbins' in there when I'd be using it with an Ortofon SUT), and I'll compare it with the heavily-modified, point-to-point wired (PCB-free) valve MM phono stage inside my Croft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics
In that respect, it would be interesting to hear how your phono stage stands up to comparison against some quality glowing bottles, amongst all this uber-tweaked, fancy-pants 'sandboy' malarkey!! :D ;)
Marco.
Why not just run your cart directly in to it and not use the SUT in this case?
I could do, but gain-wise, it would likely be less than ideal, as the SPU has a very low output (0.2mV), unless Jez's phono stage has a high gain option. However, more importantly, the SPU has been 'voiced' to match my SUT, so I'm trying to minimise the variables.
Should there be a marked difference in the sound of the Arkless phono stage, compared with the one in my Croft, I'd like to know what's responsible for it, and if I'm simply comparing one MM stage against another (albeit it valve vs. SS), it makes that job much easier :)
Marco.
Fair enough. However, gain shouldn't be an issue - my own cart outputs the same as yours and I haven't encountered any gain problems.
Yup, no doubt that could be worked around. My Ortofon SUT provides a gain of 27dB at 1kHz, all of which is needed with my Croft MM phono stage - any less than that, and dynamic impact suffers.
Interestingly, when I'm at Martin T's place, and bring my Techy down for a sesh, he always ups the gain to maximum on his Whest PS 30R, for use with my SPU, which is a higher setting than he normally uses with his Shelter 5000 cartridge - and the SPU sounds much better on the higher gain setting.
Out of interest, how much gain does your own MC stage provide?
In any case, in terms of this comparison and in the interests of achieving the most meaningful results, I'd prefer simply to compare one MM stage with another.
Marco.
I'll likely put a switch for MM/MC on the demo one just to make it easier for people to try it with either type although I don't envisage many wanting a MM version....
I would certainly prefer it to be auditioned without a SUT as I'm no fan of them personally. My phono stages are not designed to have any sound or "voicing" of their own but to be an open and transparent window to the source (some sort of mixed metaphor there!)
I believe it is 64dB - quite healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
63dB for the Arkless...
Unless they only have an MM cartridge? There are some rather good ones around, you know! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics
I understand that, and as a solid-state 'aficionado', it's not surprising. When I say 'voiced', I don't mean in terms of introducing a pleasing sounding euphonic effect. I hate that too, and is completely NOT what any part of my system is about.Quote:
I would certainly prefer it to be auditioned without a SUT as I'm no fan of them personally. My phono stages are not designed to have any sound or "voicing" of their own but to be an open and transparent window to the source (some sort of mixed metaphor there!)
What I mean is that, with the SUT in place, the sound that the cartridge produces is more musically accurate and involving to listen to (i.e. in my opinion more faithful to how recordings should sound, based on my experience of listening to real voices and instruments, which is the opposite of what you're inferring).
It's a total 'no brainer', making the presentation without the SUT, sound rather anodyne and insipid: that sort of tonally hard and 'grey' sound you get sometimes with even the best transistor equipment, as if tonal shading and dynamic contrast, essential in making recorded music sound real, have somehow been stripped away. I'm not saying for one second that your stuff is like that, though.
Anyway, the above effect is most noticeable in Martin T's system, where even in the total absence of valves, he MUCH prefers running his Shelter 5000 cartridge into the MM input of his Whest, through his Choir Audio Hashimoto SUTs, than directly into the active MC stage - and many other pairs of discerning ears have listened to the results and arrived at the same conclusion.
Marco.
Certainly there are some good MM carts yes but once one has a top class system that can reveal the extra that a good MC can bring to the party, over and above even the best MM, most go for the MC option.... Hence I'm expecting that the majority that want to spend the extra for the turbo version will be using MC carts...
As for valves well I may well offer a valve phono stage in the future and then I've got both bases covered there! It's already designed ;)
SUT's can sometimes cause colourations and peaking of response, also they can sometimes cause a rolling off at frequency extremes which can give a warmer presentation and make a truly accurate phono stage with active MC input sound a bit bright in comparison....
This certainly can't be said to always be the case as it varies so much depending on the SUT being used and the loading it sees from the MM stage. It also depends heavily on the cart it is used with so they do enter quite a few variables into the equation and will sometimes voice things to an extent.... Of course with the right SUT that perfectly suits the cart and MM stage they can also give a wide flat response.... it's just less easy to ensure that with an SUT... generally...
I'm not having a pop here, but I've never actually heard a decent MM cartridge. Nowt over £150, i know there are some belters out there but for one reason or another they all passed me by.
There are some very good MMs out there but more to the point; Decca / London owners need and MM input even if their cartridges are not MM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics
Nice one - it would be rather interesting to hear that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics
I do agree, as I've heard the effect you're describing myself and dislike it. However, what I was referring to earlier was nothing to do with brightness, or anything like that, but rather which presentation of the music sounded more 'real'.Quote:
SUT's can sometimes cause colourations and peaking of response, also they can sometimes cause a rolling off at frequency extremes which can give a warmer presentation and make a truly accurate phono stage with active MC input sound a bit bright in comparison....
With Martin's SUT or mine, connected in line with the phono stage, the sound was simply more open, vibrant and 'alive', and conversely without them, the sound lost vibrancy, 'air and space' between voices and instruments, together with the immediacy and 'hear through' qualities, which were present before with the SUTs connected.
In summary, through the active MC input on the Whest (which is incidentally a very good phono stage), music sounded flat (as in lifeless and boring), in comparison. It should be noted that the SUTs in question cost the best part of £1500, so these are 'well sorted' products, professionally designed to do a specific job, and not act simply as a 'band-aid'.
Sure, I agree. However, in my experience, when you get it right, the results can be magical and supersede what is achievable with *most* active MC stages, certainly those I've heard so far.Quote:
This certainly can't be said to always be the case as it varies so much depending on the SUT being used and the loading it sees from the MM stage. It also depends heavily on the cart it is used with so they do enter quite a few variables into the equation and will sometimes voice things to an extent.... Of course with the right SUT that perfectly suits the cart and MM stage they can also give a wide flat response.... it's just less easy to ensure that with an SUT... generally...
What I've highlighted above (in blue) is exactly the case in Martin's circumstances and mine (indeed, in the case of my SUT and phono stage, the response has been measured), so I'm glad that you're able to acknowledge that fact, as an active MC stage fan, because so many of their designers pooh-pooh the efficacy of SUTs and deliberately go out of their way to discredit them, simply because to do otherwise is counterproductive to their commercial interests! ;)
Therefore, respect for not doing that :)
Marco.
You're twisting my words a bit there Marco! I'm saying that yes you can get very good results from a SUT but that in most cases a good active MC stage will beat most SUT's ;) YMMVQuote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Just a suggestion chaps. If Marco has the MM/MC switchable demo version he can try MM + SUT v Active MC input. Only way to settle the argument and then this may be down to personal preference. The two approaches (solid state v valve/SUT) are likely to sound different if not one better than the other. :)
You boys are both striving for different things. Jez wants measured neutrality and Marco wants the sound he wants to hear. There's no real way to compare those two ideals using the tools that each of you select to arrive at that goal.
How so, Jez? You wrote this, which I've quoted:Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics
I agree with every word of that, especially the bit in blue (as it reflects my own situation) - and none of it discredits what the best SUTs are capable of, when used in the right context, which is what I was complimenting you on originally!Quote:
"This certainly can't be said to always be the case as it varies so much depending on the SUT being used and the loading it sees from the MM stage. It also depends heavily on the cart it is used with so they do enter quite a few variables into the equation and will sometimes voice things to an extent.... Of course with the right SUT that perfectly suits the cart and MM stage they can also give a wide flat response..."
Indeed, and currently my mileage does vary, as so far I've found the opposite to be true. Maybe that will change once I hear your phono stage? ;)Quote:
I'm saying that yes you can get very good results from a SUT but that in most cases a good active MC stage will beat most SUT's... YMMV
Marco.
How so, Simon? If my SUT (in conjunction with the MM phono stage inside my Croft preamp) has been measured as giving "a wide and flat response", to quote Jez, and indeed has been confirmed as having such by Anthony TD, after him conducting the necessary measurements, then how does that not represent what you refer to as "measured neutrality"?Quote:
Originally Posted by sq225917
Furthermore, I can assure you that the sound I want to hear is nothing other than that which left the studio and exists on the record, which in my experience, is diluted somewhat by all the active MC stages I've heard to date - especially the SS ones! ;)
Marco.
Indeed, Paul. I look forward to testing exactly that and reporting my findings here :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioman
Marco.
There's not exactly a lot of non solid state active ones about! I have a valve head amp here which I built years ago and although it sounds great it is just not possible to get the noise down to the levels that can easily be achieved with SS. I found it's noise level to be acceptable personally though as it was always below record noise.... the biggest issue was that valves which are quiet enough for any other application can still be too noisy for use in a MC head amp so very careful selection has to be done..... worse still, if a valve "goes noisy" in a way that is so slight that you wouldn't notice it if that valve was used elsewhere, you will certainly notice it in this application!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
You can of course try the unit with either MM and SUT or MC but I suspect you will prefer it with your SUT..... whereas I would probably prefer it with the active MC setting! Your choice of speakers for example, whilst popular and a classic, wouldn't suit me as low colouration is very important to me. It's likely that the qualities in a hifi system that are most important to you may be a bit different to the ones where I place greatest emphasis :)
I think you're misunderstanding me... I'm talking about valve MM stages, in conjunction with an MC SUT, versus standalone MC phono stages. The former, IME to date, outperform the latter, in terms of the musical accuracy you (and I both) crave! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics
Indeed. When it comes to head amps, I prefer SS ones. I have a modified (battery powered) Lentek unit, which whilst a little hissy in between tracks with the volume turned up, sounds utterly devine, especially in conjunction with a Denon DL-103 and a quality valve MM phono stage! :exactly:Quote:
I have a valve head amp here which I built years ago and although it sounds great it is just not possible to get the noise down to the levels that can easily be achieved with SS. I found it's noise level to be acceptable personally though as it was always below record noise.... the biggest issue was that valves which are quiet enough for any other application can still be too noisy for use in a MC head amp so very careful selection has to be done..... worse still, if a valve "goes noisy" in a way that is so slight that you wouldn't notice it if that valve was used elsewhere, you will certainly notice it in this application!!
With respect, Jez, you can think that, but you can't know it, as you've never heard my system, or I believe any of its constituent components in isolation. The reality is that ALL speakers are rather coloured sounding devices - therefore one simply chooses one's favourite 'flavour' of coloration! ;)Quote:
You can of course try the unit with either MM and SUT or MC but I suspect you will prefer it with your SUT..... whereas I would probably prefer it with the active MC setting! Your choice of speakers for example, whilst popular and a classic, wouldn't suit me as low colouration is very important to me. It's likely that the qualities in a hifi system that are most important to you may be a bit different to the ones where I place greatest emphasis
I can assure you, however, that if you heard my speakers (which don't forget are choc-full of very expensive modern crossover components), on the end of my system, the last thing you'd likely say would be 'oh, would you listen to that coloration?' :eyebrows:
Why not pop down sometime for a listen and bring your phono stage with you? You're not a million miles away!
Marco.
Another example right there Marco.... I don't like the Denon DL103! Or any other cartridge with a spherical stylus....Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
In the Arkless 640P (including the turbo version) the signal passes through exactly the same components and signal path whether switched to MM or MC. Only the value of one (gain setting) resistor changes. It could then be speculated that if you prefer it set to MM and with an SUT then the SUT must be adding some sort of euphonic colouration! :eyebrows:
Although not a million miles away 240 is rather a hike... especially by motorbike with winter approaching! If I'm ever in the area though I'd certainly love to come and hear your system!
Lol - luckily then I don't use it as my everyday cartridge! I use an Ortofon SPU Royal GM, which is fitted with one of the most accurate styli known to man, reputed as being the closest thing to emulate the shape of the cutting needle on a record lathe. I give you Ortofon's own version of a Fritz Geiger(s) tip, known as the 'Replicant Stylus 100'.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics
http://www.ortofon.com/index.php?opt...=77&Itemid=120
Quote from the Ortofon website, in reference to the Replicant stylus:
Sounds superb! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ortofon Website
Lol... Well, let's wait and see then, shall we?Quote:
"In the Arkless 640P (including the turbo version) the signal passes through exactly the same components and signal path whether switched to MM or MC. Only the value of one (gain setting) resistor changes. It could then be speculated that if you prefer it set to MM and with an SUT then the SUT must be adding some sort of euphonic colouration!" :eyebrows:
Indeed - well the offer is there, if you're ever bored one day and fancy something fun and different to do!! :gig:Quote:
"Although not a million miles away 240 is rather a hike... especially by motorbike with winter approaching! If I'm ever in the area though I'd certainly love to come and hear your system!"
Beer and munchies will be on me :cool:
Marco.
I had a listen to the Arkless mod and it was pretty good.
I received my Arkless phono stage yesterday and have been listening to almost non-stop since, it's a wonderful sounding amp with a beautiful midrange, fantastic bass and with real clarity and it also has great timing & rythm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyddroid
I certainly couldn't have afforded such a quality amp if the Arkless had a name like Whest or Slee or whatever on it.
The sound from this amp along with my TT and cart is the best that I've ever hear vinyl on my system.
I actually feel that I can forget the phono stage quest now and just concentrate on getting the deck the way I want it which means doing something about the stock arm, either replace it or re-wire it and I would like to try a real good MM cart now too, at the moment I've an SAE 1000LT HOMC cart which sounds fab but I've never really heard a good MM cart on my vinyl set up before.
I have tried decent MM carts before but my vinyl set up wasn't capable of letting the cart do what it was capable of then but that's now changed.
I can hardly stop smilling listening to the vinyl now:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
x2 l am listening to a 103/ RFC SUT1/ Croft Micro Basic and it sounds superb, myself and Audio Al will be having a shootout when he gets his Arkless Turbo back- watch this space..........
Nice one, Andy. I'll look forward to that... Full write-up please (with pics, if possible) when it happens! :)
Marco.