Technics SL12xx & 12" Arms.

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15-04-2009, 13:55
Mike

Technics SL12xx & 12" Arms.

It can be done!

Richard of Vantage Audio has emailed me to say they manufacture a sub-base specifically to allow the fitting of a 12" arm to the SL-12XX series of turntables. So there you go! :)

Vantage Audio

My own Denon DP-3000 is with Vantage at the moment having a service and some modifications to the power supply. Richard seems very nice guy to talk to and is a goldmine of knowledge and experience when it comes to turntables, have a browse around the website, in particular the 'gallery' where you can see some impressive repairs to some very desirable decks!

Cheers...
15-04-2009, 16:57
The Grand Wazoo

...........thought so.
If only I'd thought so in time, I could've made a fortune from all the Technics casualties on here.
15-04-2009, 18:06
Mike

So!... who's going to give it a go first then? :)
15-04-2009, 18:56
break-3

I've already ordered a 9" Jelco 750 from Dave - too late to go for the 12" instead. :(
15-04-2009, 19:54
Dave Cawley

I've already ordered a 9" Jelco 750 from Dave - too late to go for the 12" instead.

I could swap it? :kiss:

:bag:

Dave
15-04-2009, 20:11
break-3

Thanks for the offer, Dave, but I think I might sit on the sidelines and let someone else take a punt. This Technics malarkey is starting to look expensive. ;) Anyone else want to be the guinea pig?
15-04-2009, 21:33
Marco

Well I guess that it depends how well designed this "sub-base" is...

I don't doubt that Richard from Vantage knows what he's doing, but IMO fitting a 12" arm to a 1210 is a step too far - it's not a marriage that I feel is ideal. Buy an SP10 and do it right!

I think though that Richard should be invited to join the forum as I like his products and feel that his knowledge would add to the expertise we already have at our disposal.

Mikey, since you're in contact with him would you ask him if he'd like to join? :)

Marco.
22-05-2009, 04:07
TONEPUB

I would think the SP10 would make more sense, so that you can get the pivot to spindle distance correct. Do you think there is enough room on the SL1200?

I just happen to have an SME 312 hanging around...

Anybody want to part with an SP10?

:)

(seriously, I have too many turntables as it is!)
22-05-2009, 07:17
The Grand Wazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by TONEPUB

Do you think there is enough room on the SL1200?

This was moved from elsewhere Jeff to make a new thread. We were discussing the possibility of an outrigger to mount the arm onto.
19-03-2010, 14:12
Light Capture

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Homar

It can be done!

Richard of Vantage Audio has emailed me to say they manufacture a sub-base specifically to allow the fitting of a 12" arm to the SL-12XX series of turntables. So there you go! :)

I wonder how? Is the plinth large enough and the location of the existing tonearm baseplate in the correct location for a 12" arm?
19-03-2010, 14:25
Dave Cawley

There isn't nearly enough room it's a sort of pod that you place near the deck with the arm attached!

Regards

Dave
19-03-2010, 14:29
Gdg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light Capture

I wonder how? Is the plinth large enough and the location of the existing tonearm baseplate in the correct location for a 12" arm?

Tricky, it is. You can see it here:
http://vantageaudio.com/info/KL66.htm
(with just a little bit of patience)
19-03-2010, 14:36
Dave Cawley

http://vantageaudio.com/photo/armbase/sn/sn023.jpg

Well done!

Dave
19-03-2010, 19:01
Light Capture

Looks funny to me. I would be happy w/ a 309 on an after market base plate, mounted in the original plinth cutout. Now that I think about it, I would be happy to upgrade from my D2 to a 1200.:)
24-03-2010, 22:53
anubisgrau

there are 12" arms that can be fit instead of 9" - if you can get a kuzma (i think it's a linn) adapter and have around 2500E to splash, buy stogi 313. it's a 313mm arm with 212mm mounting distance....

you will have to give up on lid though
25-03-2010, 07:09
Dave Cawley

http://vantageaudio.com/photo/armbase/sm/sm024.jpg

12" is twelve inches, however you measure it.

The photo disappeared so here is another one.

Dave
28-03-2010, 19:35
anubisgrau

it's not there again
01-04-2010, 14:49
pure sound

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...d/stogi313.jpg

Clever. It'd be funny to see one of those on a 1210!
01-06-2010, 03:33
Mike_New

Some 6 months ago I designed a 12" adapter plate which bolts into the existing arm well of the SL1200xx and cantilevers over the back edge to occomodate a 12" arm.
This way you do not need any additional carrier.
Would this be of interest to people?? The dust cover cannot of course be used and would have to be removed. Also more shelf depth is required.

I did not proceed with this at the time as there did not appear to be a great interest in 12 inches! However with the increasing use of the new bearing and copper mats, together with the future takeup of the new platter, all of which justify the use of a longer arm. I have noticed that the interest in 12" arms has increased.
01-06-2010, 13:46
DSJR

Any chance of a piccie or two please?

If you have a full plinth/plate system coming at some point in the future, a 12" adaptor would be a great halfway house I think...
01-06-2010, 13:47
The Vinyl Adventure

what dave said
01-06-2010, 22:20
Mike_New

I will proceed with making the first prototype and post a pic ASAP
02-06-2010, 08:30
Gdg

Mike, that's could be very interesting. The 12'' tonearm is reallly the further step in SL 1200 upgrade.
28-06-2010, 08:46
Gdg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_New

Some 6 months ago I designed a 12" adapter plate which bolts into the existing arm well of the SL1200xx and cantilevers over the back edge to occomodate a 12" arm.
This way you do not need any additional carrier.
Would this be of interest to people?? The dust cover cannot of course be used and would have to be removed. Also more shelf depth is required.

I did not proceed with this at the time as there did not appear to be a great interest in 12 inches! However with the increasing use of the new bearing and copper mats, together with the future takeup of the new platter, all of which justify the use of a longer arm. I have noticed that the interest in 12" arms has increased.

Mike, any news about this ?
Bye
04-07-2010, 22:19
jrhymeammo

Hello to dear members at the Arts of Sound.

I have just signed up to this site after seeing this:goodthread:.
Has anyone here actually tried out the unit?

Have Fun,
JRA
04-07-2010, 23:50
Mike_New

Gdg,
I have sketched out a couple of design options on my CAD system, One of which fits into the existing arm well and clamped into the three holes. This does not involve any additional drilling of holes and theading for bolts. I will make up a protoype and post a pic. It will need to be a substantial fitting however, if it is to do justice to a 12" arm such as the SME.
05-07-2010, 02:46
jrhymeammo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_New

Gdg,
I have sketched out a couple of design options on my CAD system, One of which fits into the existing arm well and clamped into the three holes. This does not involve any additional drilling of holes and theading for bolts. I will make up a protoype and post a pic. It will need to be a substantial fitting however, if it is to do justice to a 12" arm such as the SME.

Hey Mike,
This sounds really exciting!!
I would love to know the details of a prototype when available.

Thanks
JRA
05-07-2010, 06:47
Mike_New

JRA and Gdg,

I have now completed an evaluation of the options for a 12” adapter for the SL1200, using my profesional CAD system and have decided that a design, which locks into the existing arm well and fits over the back edge of the Chassis is the way to go. The adapter plate protrudes 130mm out from the back edge of the SL1200. The arm centre is 25mm to the left of the arm-well centre and 165mm towards the rear. It will be manufactured from 25mm thick engineering quality alluminium bar stock. The mounting level for the SME arm slides will be 15mm below the top surface of the SL1200 chassis. The thickness of the rear mounting plate section will be 25mm.

The slot will be angled at 23.6deg to the theoretical angle of the line extended from the spindle to arm pivot point in order to maintain SMEs cartidge offset angle when adjusting for position. Given these dimensions, the top of the adapter plate, which protruded out to the rear will sit approximately 15mmm above the top of the chassis surface.

Now given that most of you will probably be using an arm of this quality with my new Platters, which sit approx 2mm above the existing platter. My question is for those who have a 12” arm, will there be sufficient clearance under the arm to clear the adapter plate when seated in it’s installed position.??

I make no excuse for the solidity of this adapter plate, it has to be, to avoid any resonances. To quote from a paper by SME the arm plate should be of the utmost rigidity to absorb any vertical vibration arising from the excellent stiffness of the arm design generally.
05-07-2010, 07:39
Gdg

Mike,
I planned to get your platter, but so far I don't have any 12'' tonearm yet, and no idea of what to get. I could get the SME 312, but I do prefer a replaceable headshell tonearm such like the SME M2-12R or the Jelco SA-750TE 12". I'm expecting that you and Dave Cawley give me/us some advice about the best combo.
Thank you
05-07-2010, 08:44
Mike_New

I personally am not keen on replaceable headshells which presumes a screwed thread attachment. If you have seen a cross section of a screwed mating thread you would not be so keen!! The average thread only engages for about 75% of it's depth, and of course engages only on the pressure side! this is why water pipes alway leak without sealing tape!!. Only precision ground theads in high quality carbon steel really qualify for acceptance from a sonics point of view. and these are not to be found on the ends of Jelco or even SME arms to my knowledge.
05-07-2010, 09:00
Spectral Morn

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrhymeammo

Hey Mike,
This sounds really exciting!!
I would love to know the details of a prototype when available.

Thanks
JRA

Can you please pop into the Welcome section of the forum, say hello tell us a wee bit about yourself, system and the music you like? Can you then add your first name as your signature. This is a basic requirement for all of our new members.

Regards D S D L
05-07-2010, 10:49
Gdg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_New

I personally am not keen on replaceable headshells which presumes a screwed thread attachment. If you have seen a cross section of a screwed mating thread you would not be so keen!! The average thread only engages for about 75% of it's depth, and of course engages only on the pressure side! this is why water pipes alway leak without sealing tape!!. Only precision ground theads in high quality carbon steel really qualify for acceptance from a sonics point of view. and these are not to be found on the ends of Jelco or even SME arms to my knowledge.

Mike, I'm aware that fixed headshell is sonically better, but I'll still prefer the removable solution. So the Q is: will your 12'' extension deal with tonearms like Jelco ?
Thank you
05-07-2010, 11:37
Mike_New

Yes it will but of course the attachment arrangement will differ from the SME
What is the spindle to pivot distance for the Jelco??
05-07-2010, 13:25
Gdg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_New

Yes it will but of course the attachment arrangement will differ from the SME
What is the spindle to pivot distance for the Jelco??

Oh well... I don't know :scratch:
But look at this, it should help:
http://www.soundhifi.com/images/SA-750TE%20mount.pdf

EDIT: Mike, please give me/us an idea of the final cost, too, thank you.
05-07-2010, 13:39
Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L

Can you please pop into the Welcome section of the forum, say hello tell us a wee bit about yourself, system and the music you like? Can you then add your first name as your signature. This is a basic requirement for all of our new members.

Regards D S D L

You must have that saved as a template judging by the regularity it comes trotting out.... you should apply for a job as a traffic warden! :lol:
09-07-2010, 01:46
Mike_New

Gdg,
The cost of the 12" adapter will be about Stg165. plus postage for the Jelco mounting. The cost of engineering grade Alluminium contributes to this price, as the top mounting plate which fits into the existing arm well is machined from a 25mm thick by 120mm wide bar, as is the arm mounting plate. I would need to specifically make a version for each of the differing arm mounting geometries, The SME being the more involved, as it requires an elongated 28mm slot for adjustment, although it will not require to be as long as the standard mounting template indicates, as cartridges just do not vary in length by that amount! do they?
18-07-2010, 17:50
jrhymeammo

Hi guys,

AOS has a great analog forum!

I had requested Vantage audio to make me a mount to fit a 12" Jelco on the back left of the deck. I hope he can accommodate my request so I can keep my SME 309 and add the SA-750L. Wouldn't this be a better option than retrofitting a 12" in place of a 9"?

JRA