https://sites.google.com/site/comput...x-touch-tweaks
and the SB forums link for support etc
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89359
Try 'em,
works alsongside Soundchecks mods, just as effective.
:cool:
Printable View
https://sites.google.com/site/comput...x-touch-tweaks
and the SB forums link for support etc
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89359
Try 'em,
works alsongside Soundchecks mods, just as effective.
:cool:
Good spot - I'll give it a try.
Thanks,
Alex
Looks interesting Gaz, a good improvement?
Hmm, interesting. Not just me that thinks threading priority and preventing system services from accessing CPU makes a difference then :)
I've had a go at this.
I've been listening to high res files (24 bit, 96 kHz) via wireless streaming. The Touch is connected to my Rega DAC via a Mark Grant G1000HD coaxial cable.
Very early impressions are that more information is audible in the 8-10kHz region with the S/PDIF value at 59, compared to the unmodified settings.
This effect reduced as I lowered the value towards 45.
What do these figures actually relate to? Are their minimum and maximum values?
yup,Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
to me theres an even more obvious change in the sound than Soundchecks mods.
Its an improvement for sure.
I take it these only work if you are using a pc to run SC?
To be honest, I wasn't expecting these to make any difference but ... I applied the mods while a song was playing, the device rebooted and started the song again and could immediately detect the extra treble detail.
PS. As the mods are applied to the Squeezebox Touch itself, it doesn't matter what computer is being used to run the Squeezecenter software.
Hi all,
Thanks for trying my SB Touch mods.
FYI I update the site from time to time. I included some information about "Tuning" the mod to suit your system.
Enjoy!
Hi Dynobot.
The mods do make an improvement and spending some time tweaking the SPDIF value from the original 59 did make a difference in my system.
Good work sir. :cool:
Wow, lots of excitement about your mods. Since I'm using Linux, can you help this poor soul do your mods without having the Windows utility? Can I apply your mods from the command line (same as I've applied Soundcheck's mods)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot
.. and a similar request (please) for all the Mac owners out there!Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
BW
RTJ
Gazjam,
Great, thanks and enjoy!
BTW, what value did you settle on for spdif??
Hi magic,Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
From Linux you can 'cd' to the rcS file and use your editing software [gedit or leafpad etc] if you can open that file you can just apply the changes to it. Otherwise yes you can apply the changes via command line ie [chrt -f -p....] you should still get a echo reply back as to the priority change.
Try thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Bonky
http://www.rbrowser.com/
Once its open on your Mac just follow the same steps.
Wow, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot
BW
Richard
Just in case you are not able to open window with a text editor like gedit etc. and are forced to use command line only here is a site with a pretty easy to follow guide for vi editing. This way you can 'cd' to the rcS file and open it in the terminal window, edit the file and save it.Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
http://www.basicconfig.com/linux/vi
Awesome. Actually, I'm using a Mac, but because I'm ssh-ing into the Touch from the Terminal, I feel like I'm descending into the command line Linux (or is it Unix?) Would your Linux instructions apply for the Mac flavor of *nix?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot
Also, I've learned from another thread discussing your mods (a different forum) that one member managed to shoot himself in the foot by applying your changes, after which he inadvertently added a blank line at the end of the file, thus causing the Touch to hang (it can happen if one is not familiar with the file editor). I wanna make sure I don't end up doing the same (it's a pain in the ass to do the factory reset and then redo all the Soundcheck's mods, if you know what I'm saying), so are there any tips you could kindly offer for making sure we don't inadvertently fabricate an extra blank line at the end of the file before saving it?
Thanks so much, I can't wait to get home and try this!
Hi Ian (Dynobot) - thanks very much indeed for joining us, and contributing to the thread - however could you kindly pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself? This is one of the requirements of our community, as it makes for a more friendly forum. Thanks. :)
Hi magic,Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
The best way to insure you do not have extra spaces is to go to the end of the file and backspace until you get to the last character. same goes for each line, backspace to get rid of spaces.
I also read on that other forum, after someone posted to Soundcheck about him trying these mods and/or putting them in his next release of mods that Soundcheck actually wants credit for these mods. Apparently he says he thought of them in 2007 but I guess he forgot about them until now since he did not use them any of his Squeezebox mods until now....oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
At any rate, I will keep them on my site and help anyone who wants to use them.
Both you guys are doing a great job...keep it up!
Maybe great minds think alike? :)
Heres a thing to consider...
When I upgraded the firmware on my Touch to the latest "nightly" build (7.6.1 - r32869) the "optimum" SPDIF value changed? :scratch:
I was sitting at 51 as anything higher sounded a bit "etched" and this value gave the best balance between clarity and musical flow.
*seriously, Im not making this stuff up! :mental:
Upgraded the firmware, factory reset, Soundcheck mods then yours..and the sound wasn't as clear as before.
I had found that the higher the SPDIF value the "clearer" the top end seemed to be..so I set it to the original recommended value of 59.
Sound is better that it was, more of what made it better than without the mods.
Some voodoo going on here I think. :eyebrows:
Software like Amarra etc (insert good/bad comment here..) seems to rely on similar tweaks to system processes, CPU priority etc, so I for one reckon theres definately a good thing going here.
I neither own nor have even heard a Touch, but it's interesting to see someone apply the ideas of tuning thread and interrupt priorities in a real-time Linux environment to this popular kit.
While not directly applicable to the Touch, here's one web ref. that explains a few concents and shows how IRQ priorities can be juggled/tuned for low-latency audio.
For a more general overview of real-time Linux in the audio context there is:
And there's always the ALSA low-latency how-to:
Unfortunately like a lot of ALSA documentation the last ref is not very up to date.
Hi Ed, are you aware of any similar mods for the SB receiver or SB3?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot
:cool:
Maybe not voodoo, I started using the mods with the latest release, which is why I used 59.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
BTW, the owner of these mods is FFADO like I referenced in my site. They came up with them years ago and actually published this information which I gave credit too on my site.
http://subversion.ffado.org/wiki/IrqPriorities
I know Soundcheck from many years ago on Audioasylum. It was his pride speaking...
If you notice on my site I reference other sources too like Texas Instruments in ref to the usb tweaks I use ie very short cables etc.
Yes Krisbee those are the true sources of information concerning real time linux and alsa. I made references to the very sources on my site.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisbee
Thanks for posting that
No only products that use LinuxQuote:
Originally Posted by WAD62
Dynobot,
Now I've had a chance to read more of the information on your excellent website I'd say it was well worth a visit for anyone interested in computer audio.
One thing that really struck me was how you had discovered by accident that cutting the 5volt power connection on a USB cable gave such good results that you sold both your ADuM isolator and AUDIO-GD USB to Coax converter. It's an idea that SOTM incoporated into their very expensive tX-USB: Low noise USB audio PCI card with switchable BUS power. Of course this may not work on a USB DAC that needs the 5volt connection, but must be worth a try on a cheap USB cable.
To stray off topic a little further, in your comparison of Windows v. Mac etc. you express a perference for the Squeezebox Touch, but only if the Squeezebox server software riuns on a separate machine. But unless I missed it you don't say which DAC etc you were listening to, or perhps this choice was independent of the rest of your audio chain..
Although Im a dedicated Linux user I still have not built a separate "audio computer", yet I lean towards an Atom powered device or using an embedded sytesm like one of the ALIX m/boards combined with VoaygeMPD linux. Talking of which have you ever seen this website?
http://kubotayo.web.fc2.com/voyagempd.html
It includes some patches for MPD itself to make further use of real time capabilities. I've made no use of these myslef yet so can't say if they are effective. But they are accompanied by a detailed description.
One last question, I wonder if you had ever tried the switch from ALSA to OSS4? Sadly, my DAC's USB connection does not function although recognised in OSS4 , but my Envy24HT card works OK.
I think this is great despite not being a Touch user.
(I am trying/have tried similar with MPD with the assistance of my more Linux knowledgeable friend)
I’ve believed for some time now that experimentation in both hardware and software setup can make a considerable difference to file based audio.
There have been two main problems imo with regard to this kind of system optimization for audio
a) overcoming the “bits are bits” mindset prevalent in computer based audio reproduction
b) the majority of audio enthusiasts just don’t have the computer/software skills to experiment with such modifications.
It’s exciting to read that people are actually hearing a difference in how an OS is set up.
It’s interesting that the more traditional audio enthusiasts are quite happy to report that changing this capacitor or that valve/transistor makes an audible difference but, often still insists that computers were designed to multitask and prefer to concentrate on everything after the computer rather than the source itself.
Like Chris, I found your preference for tx USB style powering solution interesting and something I’m considering for my server build as mentioned in my Music Server thread.
It is rather expensive atm though.
I’ve had good results with the ADUM chip connected to a Linear power supply but not all USB Dacs seem happy with this arrangement.
As mentioned somewhere, some IRQ lines are on the MOB and I wondered if you had experimented with the removal of these lines? Regrettably I’ve scrapped a few boards now attempting to do just this.
There are software solutions available for thread prioritisation and core mapping. Have you tried any?
Imo it’s great that people such as yourself are attempting to bridge the chasm that exists between the computer/coding/scripting and audiophile sides of quality audio reproduction.
Thanks so much for your selfless help, Dyno. I've applied your mods last night, and wow, wow, wow! And WOW!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot
What the hell is going on in there? How is it possible that commenting out two lines of code and adding 4 lines of code can result in such staggering improvement? I confess I have not the foggiest what's going on, but man it works. Does it ever work!
I also have to confess that I was extremely skeptical that this mod could make even the slightest difference. After going through the flurry of mods and tweaks (2011 is the tweak year for me), I was convinced that I've reached the point of diminishing returns. The only way I could see things sounding any better was if I were to do some serious upgrades to my electrical wiring, which would require a five figure investment on my part.
Then along came your four lines of code, and wham, bam, a la chazam!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Hi Krisbee,Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisbee
Thank you for the comment about my web site...:)
About the Dac[s] I used for the comparison between operating systems. Well the comparison went on over a very long period of time. My first computer audio machine was a Windows XP machine which I reduced down to the bare-bones and ran Foobar with Otachans plugins. I compared Winamp and Foobar a lot back then and starting getting interested in Linux audio. At that time my Dac was Creative Soundblaster card which soon got replaced by a Lavry DA10 Dac. The rest of my system consisted of an Aragon 8008BB amp and an Anthem Pre2L preamp with my Dynaudio speakers. I probably spent a good year trying everything I could to make both Linux and Windows sound as best as possible. Since then I have gone through a lot of Dacs if you see my web site. With each new Dac I go back and compare so I would say the Dac[s] I used for my final write up was every Dac I have owned and generally speaking I ended up with the results I posted about.
Yes I have read the web site you mentioned, its a very very good wed site. BTW, those paths are pretty much the same thing Soundcheck is doing with his TT2.0 Squeezebox mod.
No I have never tried OSS4 but I might give it a shot, thanks for telling me about it. Up until now I was strictly ALSA.
it looks too technical for me, is there are daftee's version of how to make the alterations?
I have a SB touch connected to a dacmagic and my nas in another room connected to my pc and router with ethernet cablesQuote:
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
i put my sb ip address in and it says network connection refused, help please
Hi David,
To follow these soft modification instructions, you first need to establish secure communication between your Touch and your other networked devices. This is achieved by using a SSH (secure shell) protocol. Until you tell it otherwise, your Touch will refuse to allow a third party to access its instruction set.
Go to the Settings menu on your Squeezebox Touch.
Go to Advanced.
Go to Remote Login.
Select Enable SSH.
You can now use the WinSCP client on your computer to edit the Touch firmware. Good luck!
network error...connection time out is all I get...gggrrhhhhhh
I did the settings on the SB
OK - next two things to check.
- When you enable SSH on your SB, does the IP address given to you by the Touch on screen, match the IP address entered into WinSCP? Check that you are using the root username, 1234 password and port 22.
Reboot your SB before proceeding.
- Go to the menu tree on the left-hand-side of the WinSCP window.
Select Connection.
In the Timeout box, increase the Server response timeout to 120 seconds from 15 seconds.
Give that a go...
Just want to endorse Gazjam's enthusiasm for this mod and to thank you, Ed, for making the process available and for the simple instructions to apply it.
The Sbooster makes a dramatic difference but much like the old X10D buffer, it seems to give with one hand and take with the other, so you have a different presentation that is not necessarily "better" overall but could still be preferred, depending on the rest of your system and personal flavour you prefer.
This mod is fascinating in that you can adjust the settings to match your system, so I can see a lot more people being happy with the result. Being able to make the changes while listening is quite enlightening in terms of judging the effects and takes away the normal A/B comparison issues.
I only applied it last night and I think you need to live with a given setting for a while to get an average, because it's easy to fine tune one album/ production then change to another and start tweaking again :doh:
And the effect? Well, primarily think of it as a treble control or a sharpening tool in a photo manipulation program. It is possible to increase detail and leading edge definition to excess - beyond a balance with other frequencies or other considerations. Personally the greatest gain for me is the reduction in the graininess which the standard touch suffers from. The presentation is more refined and the soundstage cleaner (lower background noise?). I have some initial reservations about the effect on the bass but I need more time on this one. The increased inner detail highlights a musicians technique, the diction of a vocalist (Paulo Nutini sounded very Scottish and Melody Gardot had sticky lipgloss :lol:) but I'm thinking this is at the expense of an holistic rightness; with Luis Salinas, before my attention seemed drawn to the tone of his solo acoustic guitar, the reverberation of the wooden body, the rattle of the obviously metal strings and the creaking of his leather guitar strap - all elements that were creating a quite solid illusion of a real person and a real instrument. Now I seem focused on the finger slides, the plectrum technique, the attack and decay of each note.
Now if I can just find that magic number that balances the two.....
Unreservedly recommended as worth the little time and effort to experiment.
Hi Folks,
Hope no one minds m hanging this on the back of this thread but has any one any knowldge or experience of this player: -
http://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html
To a numptie like me it seems to have things going for it but what do I know?
Any response appreciated.
Dave.
These are nice mods Ed ! :eyebrows:
I guess an executable, with some "recommended" and a "revert to the factory" values could be also possible ? ;)
Oh, and btw, how would these mods work if you disable neither WLAN nor samba ?
that "magic balance" you speak about seems to have been worked out by John Swenson over on the squeezebox forums - at least with his system/ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by electric beach
He's took the mods one step further and tweaked additional system processes as well as SPDIF.
When john suggests an impovement, I make a point to check it.
Have a play with his settings, see what you think?
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...t=89359&page=9
I feel these mods are system dependant and subject to the usual "one mans meat.." caveat, but the mods DO work.
Been on my hols, not home till Monday, will be having a go with them myself.
G.
I must be going deaf, because I played with spdif values (as well as with jive_alsa values) yesterday, and I could not, for the life of me, detect much (if any) difference. Regardless of whether I set it to 59, or to 41, or to any other value in between, everything continued to sound gorgeous. There were no detectable, audible differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Am I going bonkers? Just for a lark, I reverted everything back to the way it was before I've applied dynaudio's mods, and sure enough, that extra high-end gorgeousness in sound was gone. Apply the mods again, and I'm back in business:) So while I'm capable of hearing the benefits of dynaudio's mods, I'm still a dullard when it comes to fine tuning these mods.
Any suggestions? What am I missing here?
Alex, your systems maybe shit? ;)
The main thing is to get Jive_Alsa to a higher priority than the SPDIF process, which John Swenson suggested as a new twist on the mods.
Previously, the tweaked SPDIF value as it approached the initially recommended 59 became quite "etched" in a lot of folks systems.
John Swensons suggestion of raising Jive_Alsa process to 59 keeps the increased clarity from before, but without the edginess the higher up you went.
In my own system (and ears!) the sweet spot is spdif at 48.
Its system dependant though, so try diffrent values as you are doing.
The audible difference in values between the low 40's (40 is the default=no higher priority) and the high 50's is quite obvious in my system, and its my ears and tastes (I guess) that picks the best value for me.
As I said before, these mods work and the changes can be heard, even without a pair of Maggie's like yours Alex! :)
Anyways, I'm off to swap out some whistling Murata's from my Dac...wish me luck!
:lolsign:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Sadly, I'm coming to the same conclusion. There are so many people reporting very audible differences, and yet my shitty system cannot reveal any. Oh well, time to get out of this shitty hobby anyway... Fucking rat race! Perhaps my money would be better spent on the hungry mouths in Somalia?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Well, the changes are not THAT big, and without any possibility to swap between the two configurations, you have only the long-time hearing memory to help you...Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
Perhaps your system is not guilty, after all. ;)
What's your dac? Assuming you run your Touch through one.
No, the thing is that I'm sitting in front of my stereo and changing the spdif values in REAL TIME, on the spot! I have my laptop resting on me lap, I'm logged into my Touch via ssh, and I'm playing with the "chrt -f -p 51 367" command. I'm basically changing the next to the last value, say from 40 all the way up to 59. Every time I change it and press Return key, the change takes effect and the FIFO priorities on the Touch change. The wisdom of the crowds insists that as you go higher, the sound should become more etched, more 'trebly', and vice versa. By going down close to 40, the sound should become softer, rounder, with warmer bass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Themis
But the thing is, no matter what values I plug in, it all sounds the same to me. So if I can't hear any differences immediately, what are the odds I'll be hearing them eventually?
I think I may be too old for this shit anyway...
How would spdif changes affect the sound if one is not using the spdif outs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
The Maggies are known to be a bit hot in the HF response to start with - maybe they can't be induced to give any more ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride