DENON HA 500, just a photo gallery

Hi Dave,

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For the final time Marco (I promise), the Lentek has a fixed input impedance which, as you say, will certainly be cartridge dependent, no issues there...

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Nope. Perhaps in future though remember to consider the bigger picture (as you have done now) before rubbishing a product ;)

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But as you've found, there are better things available to handle the tiny outputs of most MC cartridges.

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Indeed there are - at a price. But I can't think of a better brand new head amp or SUT to use with a DL-103 for less than the cost of the A23....

Put it this way, the Lentek in conjunction with the AT PEQ3 (interesting review to read via the link below):

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merc...egory_Code=C2D

...would be a fabulous combo for 103 users on a budget, and would likely sonically outperform the (generally piss-poor) active MC stage in most budget phono stages/preamps.

This is what AOS is about: the bespoke, the unusual; opting for the more 'leftfield' choice and thinking outside of the box to unearth potential gems which offer the highest SPPV - not simply going for the usual boring suspects and 'me too' bollocks on the market.....

We will always alert people to that way of thinking with audio, as it usually makes life much more interesting and rewarding! :cool:

Marco.

Thinking back to what Neil said earlier, when I described The Head thus:

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As an aside, I've often noticed people going on about T de P's 'The Head' SUT, and how wonderful it was, well I had one and found it a pretty unremarkable device - not bad by any means, just a little 'bland', somewhat fluffy sounding, and ultimately rather musically un-involving.

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And he replied:

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Not my experience of The Head at all.

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I have since found this, which Neil posted elsewhere on an old thread:


http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/916/theheadrear.jpg


Observing the list of input impedances, none of them would in any way suit a DL-103, as they're far too low!

The 103 needs between 100-250 Ohms. I find 100 Ohms ideal.

The way too low input impedances for the 103 offered by The Head explains exactly the sound I experienced, but of course in no way reflects on its performance in conjunction with suitable cartridges :)

It's that synergy thing again!

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Thinking back to what Neil said earlier, when I described The Head thus:



And he replied:



I have since found this, which Neil posted elsewhere on an old thread:


http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/916/theheadrear.jpg


Observing the list of input impedances, none of them would in any way suit a DL-103, as they're far too low!

The 103 needs between 100-250k. I find 100 Ohms ideal.

The way too low input impedances for the 103 offered by The Head explains exactly the sound I experienced, but of course in no way reflects on its performance in conjunction with suitable cartridges :)

It's that synergy thing again!

Marco.

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You have to be careful with Japanese SUTs. When discussing impedance, they seem to follow the convention of quoting the source (cartridge) impedance (or resistance) not the loading impedance. That is why the figures are so low.

Following that convention, 40 Ohm ought to be fine for the DL103.

I think, Marco, you meant to write "The 103 needs between 100-250 Ohm. I find 100 Ohm ideal." Otherwise the impedance you quote is far too high. A 'typo' no doubt.

At the moment I am using a Nakamichi MCB-100 SUT between the EMT and a standard 47K mm 'disc' input. The blurb for the Nakamich states:
Input impedance 2-20 Ohm
Output impedance 50k Ohm.

The EMT has a coil resistance of 22 Ohm, and the SUT works just fine, apart from having too much gain (20:1 turns ratio). It loads the EMT with ~120 Ohm; about right.

Regards

Hi Barry,

Yes that was a typo - now rectified :)

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You have to be careful with Japanese SUTs. When discussing impedance, they seem to follow the convention of quoting the source (cartridge) impedance (or resistance) not the loading impedance. That is why the figures are so low.

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Ah, I was wondering.....!

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Following that convention, 40 Ohm ought to be fine for the DL103.

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Thing is though, to my ears it wasn't.... The 103, through The Head, sounded as flat as a witch's tit!

It was typical of what I hear when a cartridge is loaded at too low an impedance.

Marco.

Hi Marco

Crickey that was quick!

Does your DL103SA have a coil resistance of 40 Ohm? Or were you specifically referring to the 103?

Either way, as I have posted elsewhere on similar discussions, the final arbiter should always be your ears.

The Nakamichi MCB-100 got an indifferent review in the same Practical Hi-Fi group review that praised the Lentek. So far the Nak sounds OK to me, but I will have to give it more time. In fact whilst my 44 pre is down, I intend to do a bit of SUT 'rolling'. Will report in due course.

Regards

I should have added that the most important parameter to quote when discussing SUTs is, of course, the turns-ratio (or voltage multiplication factor).

I assume the various impedance inputs on 'The Head' SUT, are different tappings on the primary winding. However, to make proper sense of their impedance designation, I would need to know the various turn-ratios.

I should also like to correct a mistake I made. The input impedance of the 'disc' input of the Quad 33 preamp is 68k not the 47k I had assumed. With the Nakamichi SUT this presents a load of ~170 Ohm to the cartridge. Probably even better for the EMT and just as good for the Denon 103.

Regards

I'd suggest the info on the back panel are the nominal output impedance of the cartridge, rather than the load presented - The AT's are around 15 Ohms and the denon 40 Ohms I believe...


MARCO - you're a VERY naughty boy - more later ;)

Why - wot av oi dun now, sweetheart? :scratch:

:lol:

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The AT's are around 15 Ohms and the denon 40 Ohms I believe...

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That makes sense, but at the time with the stock DL-103, The Head still sounded pants (somewhat warm and mushy) compared to what I'm getting now with the Lentek, let alone the A23!

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Why - wot av oi dun now, sweetheart? :scratch:

:lol:

Marco.

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I was going to order some Sowters and get my mate hifi dave - with fully sharpened chainsaw, drill press, soldering iron and decades of soldering skills - to help me stick 'em in a little project box. But now I have other ideas first.... :uhho:

Such as - trying a Lentek with a DL-103 on a non-wobbly T/T through a decent, post 1970s MM phono stage? :eyebrows:

Marco.