Choosing the 'best' turntable and ignoring 'flavours'

:lol: Marco tripped up on his culinary spelling. There's a first!

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Originally Posted by DSJR

Now listen 'ere sonny, I had a Linn jig, a Philips rubber mat with holes in to catch the bits and a special custom station at the back of the shop with all the bits readily to hand. Bearing in mind my employer was one of the biggest Linn dealers of all, the two shops getting through 20 LP12's a week at the time and around 50 assorted Rega's per month, we were in at the centre of the "Linn" crowd in the early eighties.....:gig:

The height of the bar stool I sat on and the height of the station allowed me to do much of the donkey-work with the deck propped up on my forehead before final set-up in the jig, which I reckon has been thrown out now the shop I worked in for 17 years is B&O only now.

In more recent years, the other Linn dealer I worked for had a more conventional arrangement, where all of the setup work had to be done with the LP12 in the jig. They did have the official Linn toolkit though and three yellow plastic component boxes with various arm and deck bits contained within (we had little wall mounted stack-a-bin things). I found the arm-cable dressing a bit fiddly done this way compared to my more intimate approach, but the Lp12 was a much simpler thing to set up by then (plinth much better made and the bolts and sub-chassis were set up true and parallel at the factory).

Anyway, I think the old fruitbox has had enough exposure for one day.. :cool:

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I used a wall mounted Target wall shelf with the shelf removed for decks needing work underneath and for those that didn't the shelf in place. I still do at home. Compared to a Roksan Xerxes a Linn is a breeze to set up....but the Roksan sounds better IMHO. I hate setting up Roksan's platter off, platter on errrrrrrrrrr. Why place a critical part of the sub chassis adjustment where you can't get to it, stupid IMHO



Regards D S D L

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Huh?

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Jeezuz, I thought you were smart!

I think perhaps you need to re-read the opening post of the thread... However, allow daddy to explain (sort of :eyebrows:):

Confucious say, glasshoppa, that some people they say modified 1210 not 'play music', but it not that 1210 'not play music', it that 1210 play music on record without sore finga (salt & vinegar)...

;)

Marco.

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:lol: Marco tripped up on his culinary spelling. There's a first!

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Even the greatest of us are fallible, and besides I hadn't had my dinner yet :eyebrows:

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Jeezuz, I thought you were smart!

I think perhaps you need to re-read the opening post of the thread... However, allow daddy to explain (sort of :eyebrows:):

Confucious say, glasshoppa, that some people they say modified 1210 not 'play music', but it not that 1210 'not play music', it that 1210 play music on record without sore finga (salt & vinegar)...

;)

Marco.

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Oi you!... It's after 6pm :ner: :upyours:

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Originally Posted by griffo104

I don't believe any deck/system is neutral, if so then I would hear what I hear at concerts and I don't and never have heard that from a hifi.


You could put 10 od us in a room and ask us to come up with something accurate and neutral and you would get 10 different answers. It's the reason why some guitarists prefer and Gibson to Fender - cos it sounds better to them. It's flavoured to their taste.

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I was going to post exactly that.

Whether they admit the existence of them or not, everyone makes a significant compromise when they select their components.
You will never, ever make a hi-fi sound and feel like real, live music.

.........and anyway.........

......what does the live music of your preference really sound like? Who knows what it would sound like tonight if the guitar roadie had picked up cable 'A' instead of cable 'B'?.........or if the guy on the board had nipped up the collar of that connector just a bit tighter...........or if the speakers had been placed four inches to the right............or if they had been playing in a different venue??????????????

(..........either way, I prefer a Gibson !!!!!)

I couldn't agree more, Chris. However that's a slightly different argument.

My point was that, in my experience, low-mass belt-drive turntables such as Regas and LP12s, and other decks of their ilk, impose more of a sonic signature - a 'flavour', if you will, on the sound than a good direct-drive T/T or idler/rim-drive does, mainly as a result of the former's inferior speed stability, which I'm sure could be measured. It's the impact on music of the latter which I feel is highly significant.

If a turntable fails to operate consistently at the right speed during playback then it is fundamentally broken from the outset.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with liking a T/T which gives the sound a specific 'flavour', if we find that flavour pleasant, but when that flavour isn't there on other, arguably more accurate T/Ts, then one shouldn't then assume that the turntable in question is 'unmusical' simply because it delivers a sonic 'flavour' that is different to what we expect or consider as 'musical'. I could mention sugary-sweet tea and well-done steaks covered in sauce again but I won't ;)

Basically, I get the feeling that often when people use the word 'musical' to describe the sound of a turntable, what they actually mean is that the sound has a 'flavour' which they consider as 'musical', rather than the turntable in question intrinsically revealing more music from records with the highest fidelity and least coloration possible, and hence more of the actual music recorded in the grooves, which is ultimately what 'musical' truly means.

For me, the latter is what a top-notch turntable is all about and nothing else :)

Marco.

Yes, I completely understand your point, but you may be missing mine.....

In respect of speed stability, your TT may be superior to some others, I don't know. But any component adds a flavour to the music - it's just that your ears don't hear it. Now, that's not a bad thing. It's great that you've found something that does it for you.

Now tell me your amp doesn't add a flavour all of it's own, or your cables.....or your room.

You see what I mean? - Perhaps in point of fact, there is no such thing as 'uncoloured' - it could be that you, & I, & everyone else, have found the tint that best suits us!

No I understand what you mean, and I agree of course, but if we try to minimise coloration or 'sonic signature' where possible within the individual components we choose to make up our systems then, cumulatively, the effect of 'flavouring' will be minimised and we should get closer to what was originally recorded on the record or disc, no? :)

Then of course after that, as you say, we've got the 'flavour' of the room to consider!

Like I said before, I don't want to hear the turntable - I want to hear the music on the record.

I personally hate tailoring the sound on purpose (creating a 'flavour') if I can get away with it; when you start consciously doing that you're defeating the purpose of having a 'hi-end' hi-fi system, IMO. I also think some people should look up the meaning of 'high fidelity' and what building a system around those principles entails.

Marco.

I certainly agree with the notion of removing the flavours we can hear, but if you can't hear the flavour that I can hear, it will sound great to you and crap to me. You will almost certainly hear something you don't like (unless you built the system).

I guess the most fundamental question is:
Do your ears hear what my ears hear?
The answer is most certainly: 'No'.

So who's right?