I’ve had both the quad shielded and the twin shielded to bits Mark.
What the f**k had AnthonyTD got to do with it?
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I’ve had both the quad shielded and the twin shielded to bits Mark.
What the f**k had AnthonyTD got to do with it?
He's had some to bits as well as far as i know & found differences to what you are describing - simples :)
Calm down dear :eyebrows:
Anyway if there's a difference i will never hear it cos it doesn't look like these mystical white coaxial cables are available any longer, on a lighter not there is a guy on ebay trying to auction off a load of the 2.4m grey variant, his problem is that he has set delivery at £6.99 so no one is bidding, which is my good fortune cos he lives just down the road, so lets see if i can get a few more sets but this time at only 99p
No mate, it’s not “simples”.
I am cool, but then again, I know what I’m talking about.
The implication from your earlier post is I’m some halwfit that cant read and don’t know shit and AnothonyTD is the only one to be trusted on this subject.
If you want to call me a twat, that’s fine, but don’t expect not to get a slap for it ;)
Ok guys put your handbags down lets not fall out over £5 worth of cables, anyway i've gone through all the posts and unless Anthony has taken apart a set of grey cables and not submitted a post, then it would seem that he has only taken apart a set of the whites, now i'm not disputing that there may be a difference in the cables, but they are both branded as Pure A/V Silver Series, my guess is that 1 type is the old model and 1 is the new, at the end of the day which ever you have got, at £5 a pair that's still fantastic value in my book.
Mike - I've got a spare pair of 2.4m white ones. PM me your address and I'll stick them in the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jac Hawk
What a kind chap that Kieths is. :)
I was about to offer a set of the twin shielded RCA (grey, not coaxial) but they are only 0.5 metre and don’t have the original plugs on.
I bought a few sets this afternoon - so far I've replaced the S/PDIF from Squeezebox Touch to Caiman DAC - I'll get round to doing a proper A/B test between this and my original lead later on in the week, but so far things are sounding good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum
I'm also going to give them a run as analogue interconnects, hence the buying a few sets - at a quid a run it's £2 per stereo pair.
No problem :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
My cable has a flat measured response, an image of some measurements from ages ago:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5299/...d5f1e6bb_b.jpg
G1000HD flat response by Mark G. in England, on Flickr
(I have cropped some stuff out as cant give too much away.)
Comment from an old email from someone that measures lots of stuff that produced the measurements above :
certainly flat.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by From old email
All that matters is that people like how anything sounds in their own systems of course.:)
Made in China, where wages are very low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
I doubt the ebay sellers will be selling the cables or PF30 etc at a loss.
An old thread where a dealer mentions margins etc:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1572
I am low margin...:scratch: :eek:
Mark.
Not saying your cables are not very good Mark, they are! I have these as well as one of your HDMI cables, which was a big upgrade on my previous cable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Grant
Things like this are always very system dependent, in mine I did prefer the slightly better top end with air and space of the Belkin, but to be fair there was very little in it. Other systems may find the opposite.
Hi Ali,
Indeed. I'm not at all surprised that Mark's cable measures as flat as a witches tit.
However, aside from that, any adverse sonic effect, however slight, you heard with the G1000HDs, I would suggest is not as a result of the characteristics of cable itself, but rather of the Canare plugs supplied. I should've made that clearer in my post on your ad. I will amend it shortly.
I can say this because I've heard exactly what you describe, and it is completely absent in the G2000HDs, or the G1500HDs supplied with Neutrik Pro-fi plugs.
The Canare plugs are of good quality (and Mark could hardly fit any better on his already excellent value for money entry-level cable), and are well constructed, but they do contain a large amount of metal, which a number of us have discovered recently is, sonically, a no-no.
It's to do with metal storing eddy currents. There are papers about this on the web, should you wish to read them.
This effect was discovered recently when comparing WBT 0102cu plugs (which contain metal in their internal construction) and WBT 0110cu plugs (which contain no metal, other than on the necessary conductors).
The 0102s are slightly more expensive, due only to the metal contained in their construction, yet when used in conjunction with Mark's excellent G1000HD cable, the sound is notably worse than with the 0110s...... Basically, high frequency extension is curtailed, and so the overall sound is somewhat 'softened'.
You can clearly hear the effect on a high quality, neutral-sounding system.
As for the Neutrik Pro-fi plugs, I can't recall their internal construction, but I suspect that overall there will be less metal used than on the Canares. Plus, in any case, the design is better, in terms of how contact is made.
Therefore, what I'm saying is not necessary to attribute what you've heard as being an effect of the G1000HD interconnects as a whole, but rather of the Canare plugs used.
It's something that I'd ask others and you to consider. It's long been my belief that the sonic effect of cables in a hi-fi system is more often than not attributable to the plugs used than the wire.
To that end, Mark should perhaps consider supplying his G1000HDs as standard with Neutrik Pro-fis (as priced on his site) and perhaps drop the Canares, making the choice offered then between the G1500 and G2000HDs. I'm sure that most people willing to spend £65 on interconnects would stretch to £90 for the same ones with much better plugs, and consequently significantly improved sonic performance.
This would then improve the quality of Mark's best selling entry-level cable, and the overall reputation of his products accordingly.
I'd be interested to hear what Mark's thoughts are on this? :)
Marco.
I'm going for the upgrade from G1000HD to G2000HD as my step-up to phono preamp is such a sensitive run and you've convinced me that I will hear the benefit.
In your system, Martin, which acts as a wide-open window, you'll hear it no problem! :)
Marco.
I'd like to compare the different types sometime Marco.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
No worries, dude - I'm sure we can do that :)
Marco.
No problem Ali, all that matters is how your system sounds to your own ears :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Hi Mark,
What do you think of the suggestion I made above? :)
Do you think if you could obtain the best price possible on a quantity purchase of Neutrik Pro-fis, you could provide them as standard on your entry-level cables at not too much more cost than what you charge at the moment for the G1000HDs with Canares?
If you could, I think in the long term it would be a winner for you.
Just a thought, dude! :cool:
Marco.
My 2.4m belkin cable arrived today, I also purchased a 1m length, which sould be with me shortly...I know a good bandwagon when I see one ;)
My DAC (Audiolab 8000DAX) has 2 sets of analogue outputs which feed into an 8000Q, so I've inserted it alongside the Chord Chameleon (0.5M) I normally use. So when it's burned in a bit I should be able to do some nice A/B comparisons...at £3.50 (2.4M) Vs £120 (0.5M) it should make for an interesting test ;)
I actually bought it to feed my AV amp into my pre amp, but I'll try this little comparison first...:)
Neutrik Profi? Not the easiest plug to solder and the wire has to be trimmed JUST SO otherwise it looks a mess. As for an O/D of cable above 5mm it gets mighty tricky to fit in the shell with that daft cable grip. It's made out of plated brass, so nowt special about it from the electrical point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Just my opinion of course :eyebrows:
A bit of thread drift :)
You have a way with words :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Although for hundreds of people the Canare connector is just fine, dont forget you have a really high end valve amplifier and huge bassy speakers.Quote:
However, aside from that, any adverse sonic effect, however slight, you heard with the G1000HDs, I would suggest is not as a result of the characteristics of cable itself, but rather of the Canare plugs supplied. I should've made that clearer in my post on your ad. I will amend it shortly.
I can say this because I've heard exactly what you describe, and it is completely absent in the G2000HDs, or the G1500HDs supplied with Neutrik Pro-fi plugs.
The Canare plugs are of good quality (and Mark could hardly fit any better on his already excellent value for money entry-level cable), and are well constructed, but they do contain a large amount of metal, which a number of us have discovered recently is, sonically, a no-no.
It's to do with metal storing eddy currents. There are papers about this on the web, should you wish to read them.
This effect was discovered recently when comparing WBT 0102cu plugs (which contain metal in their internal construction) and WBT 0110cu plugs (which contain no metal, other than on the necessary conductors).
The 0102s are slightly more expensive, due only to the metal contained in their construction, yet when used in conjunction with Mark's excellent G1000HD cable, the sound is notably worse than with the 0110s...... Basically, high frequency extension is curtailed, and so the overall sound is somewhat 'softened'.
You can clearly hear the effect on a high quality, neutral-sounding system.
good comments here:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...nt_g1000hd.htm
http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com...-say-they-are/
The Neutrik Profi are great plugs and do fit very tightly to sockets, not much of a solder area for screening to be connected, the design could be improved slightly by Neutrik. I do like them :)Quote:
As for the Neutrik Pro-fi plugs, I can't recall their internal construction, but I suspect that overall there will be less metal used than on the Canares. Plus, in any case, the design is better, in terms of how contact is made.
Neutrik Profi NF2C-B/2 Professional Phono Plug
Could be :)Quote:
Therefore, what I'm saying is not necessary to attribute what you've heard as being an effect of the G1000HD interconnects as a whole, but rather of the Canare plugs used.
There does appear to be a pattern with the high end revealing systems of different connectors making a difference.Quote:
It's something that I'd ask others and you to consider. It's long been my belief that the sonic effect of cables in a hi-fi system is more often than not attributable to the plugs used than the wire.
The Canare are perfect for most people but are fairly expensive now:Quote:
To that end, Mark should perhaps consider supplying his G1000HDs as standard with Neutrik Pro-fis (as priced on his site) and perhaps drop the Canares, making the choice offered then between the G1500 and G2000HDs. I'm sure that most people willing to spend £65 on interconnects would stretch to £90 for the same ones with much better plugs, and consequently significantly improved sonic performance.
This would then improve the quality of Mark's best selling entry-level cable, and the overall reputation of his products accordingly.
I'd be interested to hear what Mark's thoughts are on this? :)
Marco.
http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/43...O-PLUG-Group-Y that is + VAT so about £5 each if bought in small quantities :eek:
They are consistently high quality which is important, nothing worse than batch variations with the really cheap stuff from China.
There was a thread on the forums here about cheap plugs,
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9256
Johns comments saying "The outer cases are all over the place, (fast machined ally) and the internal threads have all needed cleaning out and de- burring.' so that not ideal." puts me of cheap stuff as that is the kind of consistency sometimes.
I do have some different low cost connectors that I will try and see what people think of them. Might be able to stay at the same price even though will take longer to assemble.
Only of they really are better though.
Mark.
Quite a common turn of phrase up north, I'm from Gretna, but down here in the midlands the phrase seems to be 'As cold as a witch's tit'...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
We obviously need to recalibrate Witches Tits, as an internationally recognised unit of measure ;)
Be interested in what you think about the Belkin Will.
Hi Ali,Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
In your experience how long would you recommend for the Belkin burn-in?...that is if you believe in such a thing ;)
I suppose the other variable is that I'm running it into my 'tuner' input, which I don't think I've ever used before, I suppose the thing would be to compare them for a couple of days as is, then switch them round and repeat the test. :eyebrows:
Edit; The only other thing to add is that at £3.99 it's a very impressive bit of hardware, if a cable can ever be described as physically impressive :)
I didn't really notice any to be honest, but then I replaced all the cables in my system with the Belkins.
That's a possibility although as Frank said ( post gone ?) they are a bit fiddly to fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Not cheap even in fairly large quantities, they are good though. :)
Mark.
The plot thickens, the postie's just arrived with my other 1M Belkin Cable (singular) :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
...I've quickly ordered another one...at £9 per cable, (or £18 for a pair, if you're one of those wierdos that listens to that new fangled stereo malarkey), it's beginning to mount up a bit...still not too bad if they're good ;)
First thing to report, the 2.4M is indeed grey, the 1M one is whiter than white.
I've attached some photos of the box blurb, they are indeed of different construction, and as stated earlier in the thread, grey are advertised as double shielded, whereas the white are labelled as quadruple, amongst other construction differences...
We'll have to wait for a couple of days for the white comparison...:doh:
Just to add a little more thickener to your plot:
The grey 1 metre ones I have (single run) of which I bought 10 to make up 5 stereo pairs are different again.
Bad scan I'm afraid - the only ones I have left with the diagram are still fully packaged up. But you can just make out a single drain wire which doesn't feature on your ones.
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3183/imgdl.jpg
Be good to know if there's much sonic difference between the two Will. All of mine are the white ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by WAD62
hi all,
bit late commenting on the latest findings with these cables since my last post on them. Anyway, it would seem that the latest grey versions are of the same construction as the original white ones i disected, [and yes it was just the one cable i dismantled] The new 1mtr white version is completely diffrent to both the old white and new grey, hope this makes sense, in simple form, the new grey one is the one to go for as far as the hybrid conductor construction is concerned.
Anthony,TD...
Cheers for that post & picture Chris & Will :) this is precisely what i have been attempting to get accross - there is more than one type of each coloured cable :eyebrows:
Some people just don't listen :doh:
My 'old whites', bought from the original Ebay ad that was on the OP here didn't have a construction diagram on the box (I still have those boxes), or I'd have scanned that too.
Chaps I think I've dropped a proverbial bollock!
The white single one, is a Digital Coax cable :doh:
Hence only one in the box, I was looking for analogue RCA, oh no, and I've ordered another :doh::doh:
One assumes these are not appropriate as analogue interconnects :scratch:
Can anyone please advise before I go begging to the vendor?
They'll be 100% fine for an audio interconnect ;)
'Digital' cables will work perfectly well as audio interconnects.
To be a good digital cable, the cable ought to have a characteristic impedance of 75 Ohm and have low loss, appropriate to the high frequencies it handles. All of these attributes are largely irrelevant at audio frequencies, but certainly do no harm.
Use with confidance.
Regards
The 'new' grey ones appear to be the same contsruction as the 'old' white ones (which were different to the 'old' grey ones). As far as I'm aware, all the white analogue ones are the same (the picture Will posted is the white digital co-ax, which isn't the same construction as the white analogue cable). I've got white ones with and without the construction shown on the box.
Are the 'new' grey ones designated AD80300qnXM (where 'X' is 1, 2 or 5 depending on the length)?
My grey ones are supposed to be 'composite video' cables, they do the job just fine!
Cheers Mark, that's a relief as he's already dispatched the second one :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant
So what if any would be the difference between the white digital coax, and the white analogue...apart from the fact that analogue would come as a pair :doh:
The wording on the box, or something more fundamental :scratch:
Cheers to everyone for the reassurance...my day is re-made ;)
I posted somewhere way up there about the difference I found between the two types I have. (Not the ones you want to compare, but I'd imagine the differences would be of the same order of magnitude).
They would do perfectly well for digital cables as well Chris, again video needs a 75ohm specific impedance so in effect they are both :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
I guess it depends on the internal design. With a digital or video cable they are really stuck with just a standard layout with a centre conductor & outer screen both connected at each end. Because audio cables do not need to have any specific impedance the manufacturers are free to mess about with alternative designs :)Quote:
Originally Posted by WAD62
Grey 2.4M; The selling code/barcode is labelled as AV50300ea08, so it doesn't conform to your mask :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by keiths
White 1M; Selling Code is AD80100qn1M, which does fit the format
Yes, it works fine in all applications I've tried, I was just trying to reassure Will a bit!Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant
Thanks to both of you, it's only £9, but it's more the principle...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Now then, I might have yet again blundered myself into a positive situation
Prior to using a Squeezebox to feed my DAC, I ran a BNC/BNC cable between my CD player and DAC (Audiolab CDM/DAX).
Currently this is being used with a BNC/RCA adaptor at the SqueezeBox end, presumably the use of the adaptor removes any benefits of the BNC connection...or does it? And if so might I not be better off using the Belkin Coax instead, with an RCA/BNC adaptor.
FYI the DAX has 3 BNCs, 3 Toslinks, and one AES/EBU which I currently use for the CDM
Cheers in advance for all the help :)
My comment was post #220 Mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Grant
I have a couple of silver cables here fitted with Profi's and one has already fallen apart after light usage :( I don't rate them at all to be honest and the ones I have here were left over from a retermination job I did last year converting some very long Audio Synthesis cables into 1m sets which drove me demented after the first set, so I used some other plugs which were easier to fit and solder.
Hi Frank,
Lol - well the ones Mark has soldered for me on a pair of his cables are fine. And I've got DIY cables from Barry, with Neutriks on, and they're fine, so if the job's done right, I don't see there being a problem :)
My recommendation of them was solely on their sonic effectiveness, not how hard they are (or otherwise) to work with....
Mark, I'll comment later on the post you wrote :cool:
Marco.
Right after yesterday's shambles lets try to make some sense of things...
The 2.4M Belkin grey is exceptionally good, fantastic for the price, but just not quite as good as the 0.5M Chord Chameleon, not quite the same detail, but most certainly not £110 worth of difference. I'm now using it to connect my AV amp to my Pre-Amp, which was my original intention.
I then tried the white 1M coax between my SqueezeBox and DAC with a maplins BNC adapter (a better one is on the way) at the DAC end, and what a noticeable improvement, a more realistic sound. The original BNC cable (see my earlier post) may have been OK with a BNC/BNC connection, but must have been compromised by using an adapter at the SqueezeBox end. (see my earlier post)
The white one is staying where it is, the second one I ordered will be saved for the next DAC :eyebrows:
Nae bother big man, I did say it was just my opinion ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Well i got a set of the original white ones sent to me by kieth (cheers mate) so i set 2 identical cd players (pioneer pds503's)one with white cables the other with the grey ones up to my pioneer a400 amp, i ran 1 cd player from tape one and the other from tape two and used 2 identicle copies of Dire Straits Comunique as sample music, they are both the bloody same or if there is a difference i can't hear it.
Good to hear:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jac Hawk