Any bearing base plates left, Mike:eyebrows: I sent you an email...
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Any bearing base plates left, Mike:eyebrows: I sent you an email...
Yes I currently have 2 available at this time and one more blank to be machined.
These may be the last as it is not sensible to keep on making one-offs every 6 weeks or so.
Instructions for Bonding the Bearing Base Plate to the SL1200
Issue:-- 3 (01-04-14)
Note: These Instructions should be read and understood before proceeding with fitting the Bearing Base Plate.
Every effort has been made to ensure that these Instructions are clear and unambiguous; follow them carefully.
Note: These Instructions assume that the customer has replaced the Technics Power supply with an External Power Supply and that the old transformer and small circuit board have been removed. Also that the customer has fitted my ‘High Precision Bearing’
Tools required:
a) Posidrive screwdriver to remove the three black bolts that hold down the coil assembly and bearing. (a Phillips screwdriver may be used with care.)
b) Allen Key to fit the new 1/8” Whit bolts for the bearing and coil assembly.
c) 10mm or 3/8” drill
d) Power Drill (optional)
e) Soldering Iron (to remove PS wires if required)
f) Clean workbench on which to carry out this exciting task, the kitchen work-top is ideal!!! (check with she who commands)
g) Large soft towel (to protect Platter top)
h) Smooth file (without handle)
i) Sheet of course sand paper or emery cloth.
j) Araldite Two Part High Strength Epoxy
k) Acetone or Metholated Spirits
Disassembly
a) Remove all power from the SL1200 before proceeding
b) Remove the top Hinged cover if you have one
c) Clamp down the Tone Arm and fit cover to stylus.
d) Remove the platter by inserting fingers into the two holes and pulling upwards.
e) Remove the five screws holding the large black cover (with radial slots for ventilation) remove the cover.
f) Carefully remove the three plugs attached to the cable forms from the main circuit board. One on each side of the board, (top, bottom and right hand side, when viewed from above.) Note: you may need to clip the cable clamps on the bottom cable form to give more freedom.
g) Now unsolder the wires, which come from the external power supply to the circuit board. Mark which is positive and which is negative. If it is a ‘Time Step’ power supply, the Negative (earth) should be connected to the bottom left hand corner of PCB. (If this is not the case, it should be relocated to this position on re-assembly.) The positive will be connected at the top of the board, note the position for re-soldering. In the case of the ‘KAB’ PS the DC power is connected to the two pins at the bottom left hand corner of the PCB. next to the big capacitor.
In the case of the Paul Hynes power supply, you will need to decide the best way to disconnect the wiring depending on the options you have.
h) Now remove the three self-tapping screws, which hold down the circuit board (Top Right, Bottom Right, and Bottom Left hand corners.) Use the correct size Posidrive or Phillips screwdriver.
i) Now remove the three long screws equally spaced around the motor coil assembly, these are black in colour. (these screws clamp the coil assembly and bearing to the main chassis.)
j) Carefully lift the circuit board upwards and remove the Bearing from the bearing cavity while observing how the bearing housing fits into the three curved slots of the main circuit board.
Note: You may be fitting the Base Plate to an SL1200, which already has my High Precision Bearing. In which case the following Instruction are valid also.
If you are fitting my Bearing and Bonded Base Plate as a kit, which replaces the original bearing; then the following procedure must be carried out.
With small side-cutters or nail scissors carefully trim the component wires that poke through on the soldered-track side of the circuit board, in the area of the circular body of the new bearing housing. Nip the wires neatly to immediately above the solder dome. There will be three sets of 6 wires.
Installation of the Bearing and Bearing Base Plate.
a) Firstly we need to remove the top surface of the three lugs, which protrude above the level of the chassis at the edge of the bearing well where the three bolts fit. This is easily done, by using the 3/8” (10mm) drill, to drill them out. You can either use the drill in the hand by twisting as you push down, or use a power drill, remove just enough to make them level with the bottom of the chassis.
b) Now with the file laid flat onto the surface, clean off any rough parts to the work just done.
c) Place the three long tensile bolts into the holes and screw down until they protrude below the bottom of the Base Plate by about 2mm
d) Place the Base Plate onto the cast alluminium alloy chassis so that the three protruding bolts on the underside of the Base Plate locate into the three holes in the lugs, which you have just leveled off. Make sure that the arrow marked “TOP” is pointing to the rear of the chassis. (the top is when looking down onto the unit)
e) NOTE: There may be some instances where the old Power supply has been left in position. In which situation the Base Plate will be prevented from locating correctly by the transformer and small circuit board. If you are adamant that you require to leave the old power supply in position then you will need to cut away that part of the Base Plate which interferes with the power supply. The Base Plate has been designed for maximum effectiveness as it is, cutting some of it away is not the preferred option!!
f) Now with the base plate located in position by the three protruding bolts, mark around the base plate with a felt pen.
g) Remove the Base Plate and proceed to totally remove the grey paint inside the circle with course sand paper or emery paper.
h) NOTE: On some chassis’s there may be lettering molded into the die-casting which falls within the circle marked out in (f) above. Remove this lettering with a Dremel grinder or the sharp end of a file. A sharp knife will also do the job.
i) Remove the three bolts in the base plate and set to one side.
j) Now Clean the underside of the Base Plate and the chassis area with Acetone.
k) Insert the bearing into the central hole of the Base Plate. Make sure which is the top surface of the Base Plate.
l) Now position the Base Plate so that the arrow is facing away from you and place the PCB onto the bearing, ensuring that the three Bearing posts correctly locate into the slots in the PCB.
m) Now insert the three long bolts supplied into the holes in the coil assembly lamination stack and lightly tighten.
Note: Coat the end of the threads with Vaseline before inserting.
You will now have the PCB, Bearing and Base Plate securely held together.
There should be about 1mm of thread protruding from the bottom of the Base Plate.
n) Now mix an amount of Extra Strength Araldite Epoxy Resin, making sure that equal amounts are used. Coat the bottom of the chassis within the circle you marked out, with a thin layer of epoxy resin.
o) Now coat the underside of the Base Plate with a thin layer of Epoxy.
p) Now carefully place the PCB, Base Plate and Bearing assembly into the bearing well of the chassis. Lightly press down and twist to seat the Base Plate onto the Epoxy.
q) Now ensure that the three holes in the corners of the PCB accurately align with the three locating posts in the chassis. This ensures that the Base Plate is correctly positioned over the bearing well and located centrally in the chassis. (You should be able to feel the ends of the three long bolts which protrude from the bottom of the Base Plate locate into the original holes around the Bearing Well)
(Try doing this before you apply the epoxy so that you know what you are doing.) The three supplied self tap screws can be inserted into the holes and lightly tightened to ensure the correct location.
When you are happy that the Base Plate is located correctly, do not disturb for 24Hrs.
r) The PCB and Bearing can now be removed from the Base Plate and a coating of Vaselene applied to the flange of the Bearing (where it sits on the Base Plate) before re-assembly, then tighten up the three long bolts progressively until fully tightened.
s) Using the three brass spacers, fit these to the three corner holes on the PCB, with the spacers underneath the board. There must be an earth connection lead to the bottom left hand corner position, do not forget this!! If the self-tap screws are not long enough, then obtain some longer ones (usually they are OK)
t) Now re-solder any power connections that were previously removed.
u) Now refit the three cabling plugs into their respective sockets on the main PCB
v) Check that the external power supply is correctly connected
w) Replace the platter and check that it rotates at the correct speeds. If this does not happen then you have an electrical connection problem of some sort. Carefully check all connections.
x) Before final running, add three or four drops of the bearing oil supplied, to the top of the bearing.
Final Considerations
The new Base Plate will have radically altered the VTA setting, so you will now need to reset your arm before spinning some vinyl.
The platter needs to be carefully leveled in all directions for maximum benefit. A short level placed on the platter will give the best results. Rotate the platter and check for level in all directions.
Note: The standard feet on the SL1200 are a loose fit in their threads and are unsuitable for the best results. Tightly screw all four feet into the base as tight as possible. Now use shimming to level the platter, pieces of plastic, cardboard etc will do the job. Alternatively use the ‘Isonoe’ feet, which provide excellent support.
GOOD LISTENING
A video of the whole prosess would be a big help. I will order after new year, Mike! I just loved what the ETP platter did to the sound in my set up! With the base plate and maybe a ebony armboard will be the final two pieces:)
The one thing that you have to be careful of, is to ensure that the threaded holes in the base plate are exactly on top of the original holes in the small boss's. This will ensure that the Bearing and coil assembly (PCB) is positioned correctly.
I guess a video would be useful, but so far no one has had any real problems.
There is a picture series with detailed descriptions in the first page of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKemp
Hi Folks,
The picture series referred to by Jostein is now obsolete and no longer relevant.
The Base Plate is now fixed to the chassis with epoxy glue, which make it a much easier method. Able to be carried out by almost anyone.
The SL1200 chassis assembly does not need to be dismantled and the tone arm can remain in place.
I should have caught up on this correction a long time ago, sorry about that, perhaps it should now be deleted.
You mean... my instructions are no longer valid????Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
Sniff Sniff....
Sobb Sobb....
I posted my comments on this over a year ago.
Where have all the people gone long long ago!!!
Get the bearing base plate if you've only got the bearing - the base plate provides an ideal platform for the precision MN bearing, allowing it to perform to it's optimum :thumbsup:
Rob does this give a major improvement over what I now have. I am liking the new platter and bearing but it comes at a cost but worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieGong
I would seriously doubt it would be a "major" improvement. It is more likely to be a "minor" improvement.
Thanks Kev. Don't want to keep pulling turntable part if there is no major gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyH
It will be the final piece in the jigsaw for sure, but irreversible from a mod point of view, so unless you have two identical decks, back to back tests will be very difficult.
If it made that much difference, I would seriously question the design of the bearing in the first place. However, the bearing is seriously over engineered and would probably survive a direct hit from artillery.
Being the author of this original post outlining the detail on how to mount the baseplate to the TT, the base plate brings improvement in ensuring additional rigidity between the turntable base and the MN Bearing. It ensures that there will be no mechanical minute vibrations between the MN Bearing and the turntable base. It will add additional weight to the turntable when adding the baseplate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubster68
Does it bring an improvement where it translates into audible results? That was not my goal to ever state that or give an impression when I created this post. The goal was to give great pictorial detail on how to install MN Baseplate in an effort to show what is involved, the tools one would need, and to make it easier for others should they decide to go down this route, to add rigidity when coupling the MN Bearing to the TT base.
If you are looking to know if adding the base plate will give a day-and-night audible difference to your TT experience - it will not. Does it bring a bang-for-your-buck audible difference? No. It is not designed for that. It will bring that one last piece of the puzzle together for those of us who want to reach audio nirvana - the ultimate statement for the complete SL-1200 experience.
If you are looking for an audible improvement to your TT experience, you will better off starting here - in no particular order (others may have different precedence on reaching audio nirvana):
New Tonearm with armboard (Jelco, SME, Ortofon)
MN Bearing (or the Ian Bearing)
Phono Cartridge
MN CopperTop Platter
Funk Firm Mat (Is the name Achroplat?)
Isonoe Feet
DEDICATED PHONO PREAMP !!! I cant stress this enough people !!!
And for some - replacing the caps.
Its been a few years since I have been on this forum. I am back to see what has changed in the SL-1200 world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
Or one of the other aftermarket bearings, platters or feet currently available.Quote:
Originally Posted by CableMaker1
There are a couple to choose from.
I forgot to add -
For those who don't wish to replace their tonearm - there is a more economical solution to elevating the sound of your turntable:
Replacing the stock cable with a KAB solution and really good RCA jacks - which will allow you to use any cable you wish. It really works !!!!
And for MK2 owners who are willing to put in the work - replacing the tonearm wire with a pure copper tonearm wire. These wires that are in those tonearms are tinned wires.
I believe the MK5 uses copper tonearm wire.
Sorry Mick just seen this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubster68
The truth is that where and how the MN bearing sits without the base plate really is not ideal for the solid, well engineered precision thing it is.
Have a look at posts 3 and 4 here and you'll see that three screws basically screw to the aluminum floor body http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...ing-Base-Plate
If you look closely at posts 7 and 8 you'll see that the applied 6mm base plate provides a far better, firmer more solid foundation for something like the substantial MN bearing, which can only allow it to function, optimally I'd say.
Sound wise it would be hard for me to say as I'm known to often change more than one thing at a time which was the case here.
I wanted all the right upgrades and this was part of that for me.
As well as the sense of knowing that the bearing is secured, solidly, firmly, towards optimum from that great bearing, I'm in no doubt that it is of further benefit and improvement where it matters which is the music, no matter how small an equation it adds to the whole picture so to speak ;)
I'd advise anyone doing the bearing to also do the bearing base plate, cause it makes sense and not every upgrade provides big improvement to the ears like cable a cart or speakers as not all upgrades work that way :)
I suppose it's a thing I will have to do. I have come this far and as said structurely it will pull it all together. Has anyone attempted to make one as it's not a thing you see on sale to often.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieGong
No you wont see it on sale as once it's bonded that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubster68
Not sure how much they are now.
I paid about £80ish if I remember but that was when Dave of MCRU acted as a supplier here in the UK.
Mike New might confirm cost if he see's this.
Hi Robert,
I do not have any Base Plates in stock and I am reluctant to make just the one off.
As we all know, interest in upgrades for the SL1200 has now all but ended.
If there were more than one person wanting a base plate then I would consider providing them
The price would be $385.00
With Mike not making these anymore has anyone got the plate measurements etc as I will see if a local metal fabricator can make me one.
Anyone ? This is the last piece of the jigsaw people so its important:lol::lol::lol:
If you get one made do not use the self tap long screws. As these could snap like carrots if you try to
screw them into steel. Use threaded 1/8 Whit bolts or UNF.
I have looked around my large workshop but it seems that I do not even have an old one laying around.
I would be willing to make up 5 if you can find any takers.
Hi Mike thanks for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
What price we looking at each if we get 5 members ?
Also any takers to get Mike to come out of retirement :lol:
Hi Mick
Firstly the cost for 5 off Base Plates would be $385.00 inc postage (They are heavy!!)
"Coming out of retirement" That would still be possible after all I am only 78.
However having enough buyers for my Upgrades is the single problem.
I have only had three enquiries for my Bearing in the last year and for one platter.
Sadly not sufficient to be engaged in production at a commercial level.
Mike I fully understand at 78 yrs young:D. You cant make odd ones now and again but I appreciate your offer if I can get another 4 people. The 1210 is still very popular but most people are happy to buy and home DJ the 1210 and are not bothered about making the turntable better. It looks like only a select few. Anyway thanks again for all your efforts over the years and supporting the evolution of turntables:) Your bearing and ETP platter are well worth the time and money as they have transformed the turntable.
Anyway fingers crossed I find another 4 people.
Maybe the SL1200 wheel will rotate again and there will be a resurgence in interest for my upgrades to transform the
SL1200 into a truly excellent TT for a new generation of audio enthusiasts.
However it seems from what I read in the media that Vynal has now peaked out.
The immediacy of online digital for the new generation has transcended every other medium.
I will have one if you decided to make in the future. thanks
Looking for opinions and guidance folks!
I am now in the lucky position to own two Technics 1210 turntables with the upgraded Mike New extra bits.
One deck has the bearing and the copper topped platter, and the other deck (RobbieGong's one) has the bearing, bearing base plate and the ETP platter. Both decks have the same upgraded Micro Seiki MA-202 tonearms on them.
My question really is as the Mike New copper metal platter is heavier, do you think that would benefit more placed on the deck I purchased from Rob that has the baseplate also attached, as opposed to the deck with only the bearing attached?
Maybe nothing really in it, but would appreciate the knowledge gained by you guys who have gone down the Mike New path long before me...:)
Regards
Mark
I don't know if there are any real differences you would notice. Only your ears will tell if its a worthwhile swap or not. And if you have Robs old turntable its already a winner.
I always was dubious about the base plate, so never went down that path. I had a metal platter but it widn't have the copper mat on top. I moved my platter on as overall I felt the Funk mk1 plater sounded better.
I know back in the day there were some concerns expressed re the whole thing being too heavy and maybe effecting speed stability, and in time Mike went down the path of making platters from ETP. Was that done to address the weight issue or simply it being sound quality lead. I am sure if you go back to when all of this started there will be info in those threads discussions. Too much time has gone by for me to recall all the details.
The baseplate was designed to give further stability to the bearing and is a known methods of stabilising a bearing. It will have no impact on the ability of the bearing to handle heavier platters. I have tried both ETP and the Cu topped platters with the baseplate and noticed very little (if any) difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by tdlt02
The ETP was marginally better (to my ears) than the Cu topped platter but i just could not justify the extra cost at the time for ETP at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubster68
The Cu platter DID not effect speed stability and many thought the funk replacement platter a poor and cheap substitute for Mike's work. The standard technics motor and Mike's bearing (without) the collar can easily spin very heavy platters and to perfect stability within Technics specs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectral Morn
At the time a number of industry people, including if I recall correctly some one who had exprience working for Technics felt the platter, metal platter with copper mat was too heavy. It was not proved one way or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
The first Funk platter was/is very good, more people expressed issues with the ETP later on in the day, despite a few moving from Funk to ETP. Anyway all of this is in the relevant threads if Mark wants to go and look.
Helpful information guys, much appreciated. 😄
Guys,
I finally found a "2nd hand" Mike New bearing for my 1200. This used bearing seems to have very viscous oil, as in "not easy to spin" with fingers, maybe due to age. Should I refresh the oil? If so, how and with which oil?
thanks,
Herman
They are like that when new.
The bearing is of a sealed design, so changing the oil will be extremely difficult, as it is oil filled during the manufacture.
See post 34 from Mike New.
https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...Mike-New/page4
The Mike New bearing I got 2nd hand spins smoothly but has a lot more resistance than the stock. The oil does not need to be ever changed? I did remove the 3 bearing thrust place screws and it's not hard to pour out the old oil and replace it with fresh oil. The question is what's the right replacement oil? Does Mike New share this info?
The oil doesn't need to be changed and by taking the bearing apart you will run the risk of damaging it. See the post immediately before yours posted by me. Good luck anyway.
I already did take it apart, that's why I want to check with Mike New on the oil. Does anyone have a contact for him?
Nope.
mike retired and also stopped making them a whle ago. ive not seen him online for a long time.
His website is also down.
I think Mike has retired many years ago now.Quote:
Originally Posted by noviygera
Mike retired years ago, fed up of all the bullshit from various sources. The bearing does have a specific oil which Mike brewed up. The bearing will accept fresh oil which can be injected into the top of the bearing from a hyperdermic. I do not know what the oil consists of and I don't have Mike's number and I don't have any oil to sell.
If Mike New is not available then some bearing specialist could comment on this:
possibly a low ISO synthetic oil + DuPont Molykote M Gear Oil Additive?
No idea. Good luck with your search.
Have a look at somewhere like Vinyl Engine, or see if you can find a bearing specialist locally.
My personal opinion is that something like a 100% synthetic light machine oil/compressor oil (ISO 46) would probably be sufficient, but don’t hold me responsible if it does not work out.