:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beobloke
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:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beobloke
Hi Darren,Quote:
Originally Posted by kininigin
Long time no hear, mate! Hope you're well:) I'm fine, just enjoying getting back into some hi-fi shenanigans after somewhat of a hiatus! No big reason for that, just other things to occupy my time.
Nice one on the loading plugs... Trust me, if you get the values right, you'll hear a significant improvement in all the areas I've mentioned. There a lot of latent potential with the SC35C waiting to be released once it's been loaded correctly!
In your set up though, you may need to use a different plug value, as much will depend on the capacitance of your existing tonearm cable, but I reckon the sweet spot will be somewhere between adding a further 150-250pF.
Anyway, let me know how you get on with the plugs when they arrive. If you're getting them from the same source as me, tell them to ensure that the black 100 ohms plugs are included, for tuning MCs, just in case you get into that, as they forget to put those in with my order, although they've rectified that now.
Marco.
Excellent stuff, Chris. For the above and your previous post. I'm sure we can swap notes on our respective journeys with 'tuning' our MM cartridges!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Opti-cal
So how would you describe the improvement you heard when fitting the plugs - was it along similar lines to what I've described? I've also ordered a set of those Y-adapters, as I like how they're made.
Marco.
Lol - very good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beobloke
However, you're not seriously suggesting that there's no potential mileage in experimenting with loading values on modern cartridges, both MMs and MCs? Neither are immune from benefiting in that way, especially MCs! :exactly:
It's not only vintage cartridges that are likely to respond well to such optimisation.
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Your undergoing the same experiment I went through a new of months ago, in that your trying to correctly get the SC35C to "see" that correct amount of capacitance. My M55E likes to see 450-500 pf according to the Shure website. All connecting leads carry a certain amount of capacitance, I did a quick and dirty calculation based on an audit on everything that sits between your cartridge pins and the the RCA lead going into your Croft phono stage, which unfortunately has no facility to use RCA loading plugs. The components between your cartridge and the croft MM phonostage include :-
(These are the known values of my own systems personal components, yours will be different).
15pf per channel = 30 pf intrinsic wiring of the tonearm
10pf per RCA = 10 pf RCA
60pf tonearm cable = 60 pf tonearm cable
10pf cartridge tags+leads = 10 pf (SPECULATION)
20pf for tonearm connector = 20 pf (SPECULATION)
so this equals ~115pf of capacitance, so we are approximately 335 pf short, so you use two 335pf RCA loading plugs for the M55E to "SEE" its required 450pf. This will of course be different for the SC35C (I don't know what it likes to "SEE", pf wise), it will also differ because we have different RCA plugs, tonearm cables and intrinsic wiring of tonearms. You need to individually work out each components pf level and then deduct that from the SC35C's suggested "SEEN" capacitance. Your RCA values will be the difference between the two values. This is a more accurate way of "tuning" the thing by ear, of course you may prefer it that way. I hope this helps.
Finally, did you do your loading tests at the same time as trialling the Houdini? If so, how can you confidently attribute your experiences to the Houdini and not the optimal capacitance loading? Just a thought.....
Hi Andy,
All good (and useful) points, which are noted:)
Barry did a basic calculation for me earlier about how much capacitance the SC35C likes to 'see', which he roughly worked out as 180pF [on top of what capacitance already exists], and which in practice, judging by ear, seems pretty spot on.
At the moment I'm using 150pF plugs, but will get some 180pF ones custom-made, as I think that's where the sweet spot lies... 150 sounds fab (although could possibly be marginally bettered), and 200 is too much, including any figure over that.
This sort of experimenting though has been a real revelation, as it pretty much renders every MM cartridge I've ever used as not having been heard optimally!:eek:
No, I assessed the Houdini independently of the loading plugs, so I know exactly what both are doing/have done.
So when are you treating yourself to an 'H'? Your system definitely deserves one;)
Marco.
Ah that's great news, glad to hear your not far off what the SC35C needs to "SEE". I've only done this with the M55E so I will have to do it all again when the stylii arrive from the USA and JAPAN. Yes, it's an eye opener what these old MM carts can do. I had my EAR 834P clone modded to accept RCA loading plugs ages ago by Alan and It's the best thing I did, I'll not be turning back now. All MM's will be loaded and assessed this way. Good to see that you have been seeing positive increments with your system. I'm not sure when I'll try the "H", I want to assess the stylii for the SC35C and that may take some time and the additional optimal loading the RCA plugs. I've sent you a PM detailing another couple of tweaks that might interest you and which may add something further to your system. Additionally I notice your using a sorbothane modded record weight, I have some 10mm sorbothane in my garage and my well try to modify my current pure copper record puck to see if this gains any additional benefit. I have started to make provision to try a "H" in that I'm just in the process of making a new Panzerholz tonearm mount for my SME3012 with an extra amount of vertical height which should help out should I try a "H". Check you inbox!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
All good here Marco,
Just lost the post that i just wrote as i got signed out for some reason. How annoying.
So quick reply, tonearm cable is a silvercord plus with 35pF. I did order from same source but before i had seen your post, so will double check on the 100 ohms plugs as i have recently bought an SPU.
Looking forward to playing with loading.
Well to summerize without using too many subjective superlatives (which people seem to jump on with criticism, even if they know EXACTLY what you mean), there is definitely more air right through the frequency range. This does not mean there are gaps in the sound, just that the music has a lot more room to breath. In comparison to before the loading was optimal, you can tell that the sound was a bit congested. Not having this reference to work from I didn't really think too much was wrong, until I heard the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
That's key here, the reference that experimentation can provide. It really helps you judge if something is worth persevering with or not. Result good or bad, then go from there.
The plugs are useful actually as a lot of phono stages which do offer adjustment, often have the switches/jumpers located either on the underside of the stage or indeed internally. With the RCA sockets being loaded with plugs, its a 2 second job, no need for screwdrivers or reading glasses!
It's slightly liberating that I've recently gone 'back' to MM carts actually. I have an Audio Technica AT-OC9XEN on my LP12 and its a lovely cart but I find myself choosing to play most records on my LP5 (direct drive) with the OM10 and loading plugs on at the moment. Not because it sounds better (although the gap isn't huge), but because it provides me with the most 'bang for buck' enjoyment factor.
I'm not exactly counting the hours on the OC9 (although I have a rough idea to within 10 hours+/-) but with the OM10 I'll happily just let it play grooves all day (and all night) long, then replace it once a year or less often. For £50 I can more than live with that.
I've certainly learned to cut my cloth accordingly regarding hifi (among other 'interests') recently, another reason I'm afraid I will just have to hold fire on the Houdini (for now). Reason being I'm not quite sure how some building work will pan out and can't justify it to myself this minute (I may feel differently at any time though!). Can I afford it? Yes, can I also wait for and appreciate it in time? Also yes. Wow, my 20 year old self is shaking his head in disbelief, 'what happened, you used to be cool man' . . . .
Anyway, also interesting what Andrew (REXTON) has to say there, clearly done a lot more experimentation in the area, so fair play! I too have an 834p clone fettled by Alan but the addition of the loading plug RCA's sounds very intriguing. Seems there is a lot more to be squeezed out of a lot of MM carts.
Will be interested to see if any more 'developments' are in the pipeline Marco, got anything planned??
Chris
I'm really surprised Steve (Pygmy Pony) hasn't commented on this, maybe too technical a thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
It's just your colour Marco :laugh: