Super Tweeters - Fact or Flights of Fancy?

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20-02-2010, 18:34
Barry

If anyone is interested, I have four Coles 4001G super tweeters I would be willing to sell.

I'll put some information in Private Exhibitions.

Regards
20-02-2010, 18:38
Rare Bird

Are they black ones Barry?
20-02-2010, 18:46
Barry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre

Are they black ones Barry?

Yes. I've just had a look at them. The boxes are marked 4001L (not G as I stated in my post) and have 15 Ohm impedance.

Regards
20-02-2010, 19:07
The Vinyl Adventure

At the mention of impedance my brain goes plop,bang,fizz.... What do I need to take into account when trying to wire somthing in with my pmc's - without breaking my amplificators?
20-02-2010, 19:13
Ali Tait

15 ohms is fine Hamish.The higher the ohms,the easier the load on the amp.
20-02-2010, 19:53
The Vinyl Adventure

So would barry's coles with one of these lpads satisfy my imediate interest in what these supertweetas do, or would the maplins one do better, or be more worth while as a experiment
crap, I realy do know fuck all sometimes with this hobby,
how much are these coles things worth?
20-02-2010, 20:02
Rare Bird

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry.d.hunt

Yes. I've just had a look at them. The boxes are marked 4001L (not G as I stated in my post) and have 15 Ohm impedance.

Regards

Are you sure? it's the 4001G has the nominal resistance of 15ohm, DC resistance of 23 Ohm.Not an efficient tweeter about 85db

:worthless:
20-02-2010, 20:10
Barry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre

Are you sure? it's the 4001G has the nominal resistance of 15ohm, DC resistance of 23 Ohm.

Hi Andre,

The boxes are most definitely marked 4001L. I bought them from a hydrographical survey company many years ago, as part of a now abandoned project. I think they used them for echo sounders. They claimed the speakers were 15 Ohms. I have the data sheet somewhere, I'll look it out and will measure the DC resistance.

Regards
20-02-2010, 20:18
Rare Bird

Never heard of the 'L' only 'G' (15-Ohm) & 'K' (7-Ohm)..Intresting

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/vintageBC1.htm
20-02-2010, 20:23
Rare Bird

Been brought to my attention that the 'L' may be a plastic faceplate version of the 'G'! I never thought about that.

Hamish they have a frequency range that will reach 35KHz
20-02-2010, 20:28
The Vinyl Adventure

I had a mooch about the place yesterday and it would seem 35Khz is about what is obtainable in terms of hf for reasonable money ... Higher reaponse seems to cost more? Is that fair ... What response wil give good effect?
20-02-2010, 20:29
Stratmangler

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamish

So would barry's coles with one of these lpads satisfy my imediate interest in what these supertweetas do, or would the maplins one do better, or be more worth while as a experiment
crap, I realy do know fuck all sometimes with this hobby,
how much are these coles things worth?

The Coles units are next to impossible to get now - I'd suggest using something else and leaving the Coles for someone needing to replace broken originals.

Just my 2p worth.

Chris:)
20-02-2010, 20:31
Rare Bird

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamish

I had a mooch about the place yesterday and it would seem 35Khz is about what is obtainable in terms of hf for reasonable money ... Higher reaponse seems to cost more? Is that fair ... What response wil give good effect?

Well unless you're a bat 35kHz is fine enough :lol:
21-02-2010, 15:38
electric beach

Quote:

Originally Posted by electric beach

My understanding is that the effect of supertweeters has more to do with how we process and perceive sound, rather than extending the audible spectrum. It's the same for sub bass, but you notice and feel the inaudible vibration more readily . The processing of real sound (as opposed to reproduced sound) by the human 'DAC' must consider these vibrations which are detected by the body - converting sound vibrations to a perceived 'realistic' sound.

These cheap Piezo horn supertweeters are still available from Maplin; they just need a resistor in line to minimise the output and you can have a play for less than £10. I used them on TDL transmission line floorstanders for years and they did as much for bass texture and tone as they did for creating additonal air and space - I felt they just made the reproduced sound for all frequencies more real!

I'll try to find the Jimmy Hughes article and post it.

Found the article - I'll scan it next week.

The recommendation is to restrict the frequency range with a 0.01uF capacitor in line. Then limit the output to a homeopathic level of a mere 10 Ohms, wired across the speaker rather than in series.

I jumped the feed directly from the speaker posts.
21-02-2010, 16:28
Clive

My suspicion is that it's not so much about the frequencies above our audible range that supertweeters assist with, it's more to do with how they are integrated with the existing tweeter. Bringing in a supertweeter at say 12kHz will add air your sound as you're pumping up the volume at frequencies where your hearing is disappearing.
21-02-2010, 17:35
Primalsea

Bang On Clive!!

If you measure your tweeter response with and without supertweeters connected you will see a huge difference in the measurements. Done right supertweeters even out the tweeter response, especially at the HF roll off.
21-02-2010, 17:37
Rare Bird

Quote:

Originally Posted by electric beach

Found the article - I'll scan it next week.

The recommendation is to restrict the frequency range with a 0.01uF capacitor in line. Then limit the output to a homeopathic level of a mere 10 Ohms, wired across the speaker rather than in series.

I jumped the feed directly from the speaker posts.

I'd like to see that article be intresting.

btw Hamish speakers will go a lot higher than most upto 25kHz..
21-02-2010, 18:07
twelvebears

Having elicited 7 pages of replies, I should probably admit that my original post was a bit of a leading question, but I wanted to get others' views before I said anything.

I actually owned a pair of Townshend super tweeters and even though I was using them with the Sonus Faber Extremas that I had at the time, I found they had a very definite and positive effect. I was very sceptical initially, especially as the Extremas used one of the very best tweeters available, so I managed to get them on home-trial for two weeks.

The very odd thing is that hardly any sound can be heard from them, they really do seem to impact the whole of the music, but particularly spatial clues at acoustics.

Unfortunately they went at the same time as the Extrema's is a frantic cash-gathering period, however I'm very keen to experiment again.
21-02-2010, 19:04
Rare Bird

Back in my Russ Andrews worshipping days i used a pair of superb Visitation Ribbon tweeters.i used a simple polyprop capacitor in line with em. They were about £100 a pair back then, i don't know how much they are now but these tweeters explained to me why dome tweeters give out nothing but distortion.

http://www.visaton.de/en/high_end/ht...n/mht12_8.html
21-02-2010, 19:14
Stratmangler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre

Back in my Russ Andrews worshipping days i used a pair of superb Visitation Ribbon tweeters.i used a simple polyprop capacitor in line with em. They were about £100 a pair back then, i don't know how much they are now but these tweeters explained to me why dome tweeters give out nothing but distortion.

http://www.visaton.de/en/high_end/ht...n/mht12_8.html

They're now £135.00 EACH:eek:

Chris
21-02-2010, 20:38
Will

I use these Visaton horns in a 3way OB mated to a fieldcoil midrange xover 7k
they are wonderfull these replaced Visaton ribbons

http://www.visaton.de/en/high_end/ht_horn/tl16h_8.html
21-02-2010, 21:19
Rare Bird

Wow there real nice, i like the light ash hardwood base
21-02-2010, 21:49
hifinutt

tried the townshend but they didn`t do it for me
22-02-2010, 11:59
Filterlab

These have just popped on to the 'Bay in anyone fancies them. :)
10-03-2010, 18:16
twelvebears

I've added a pair of Pioneer PT-R4 ribbon super tweets which I got from Japan and I'm very pleased with them.

Excellent looks, built and sound and a fraction of the Townshend ones. In fact they make them look rather home made by comparison, but then high end Japanese gear is always immaculately finished.
10-03-2010, 19:43
The Vinyl Adventure

Piccys steve
10-03-2010, 19:48
Stratmangler

http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/...1/IMG_0393.jpg

Chris:)
10-03-2010, 19:52
The Vinyl Adventure

Snazzy!
11-03-2010, 12:23
Rare Bird

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelvebears

I've added a pair of Pioneer PT-R4 ribbon super tweets which I got from Japan and I'm very pleased with them.

Excellent looks, built and sound and a fraction of the Townshend ones. In fact they make them look rather home made by comparison, but then high end Japanese gear is always immaculately finished.

Aye great units, how much did you pay for those if you don't mind about £200?

Those pioneers should work well with your speakers Hamish, they have built in high pass filter with user variable frequency

Type: Ribbon Type Super Tweeter
Frequency range: 9,000Hz - 120,000Hz (HPF 20kHz)
10,000Hz - 120,000Hz (HPF 30kHz)
Built-In Crossover
Average sound pressure level: 90dB
Rated impedance: 6 Ohms
Maximum power: 100W
Dimensions: W100 x H102 x D151.5 mm
Weight: 1.3kg each
11-03-2010, 20:10
The Vinyl Adventure

They looked like they cost more than £200 when I had a mooch about tweb the other day!
I'd love to give something like that a go! Maybe when money permits I should give it a try!!
11-03-2010, 20:25
twelvebears

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stratmangler

http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/...1/IMG_0393.jpg

Chris:)

Cheers Matey, saved me finding my camera! :cool:
11-03-2010, 23:59
Rare Bird

Go on then how much cutter mi bruvver ?? ;)
12-03-2010, 03:53
twelvebears

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamish

They looked like they cost more than £200 when I had a mooch about tweb the other day!
I'd love to give something like that a go! Maybe when money permits I should give it a try!!

Yeah they cost me £390 for the pair inc. shipping and fortunately no customs charges.

not cheap but as I say, they work well, are beautifully made and that's still a lot less than anything from Townshend or Tannoy.
12-03-2010, 16:44
Rare Bird

Am i seeing things or does that say £180.00 ish quid

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%91%E3.../dp/B00009VMFU
12-03-2010, 17:22
HighFidelityGuy

I've been wondering about experimenting with super tweeters.
I have a pair of Vifa units spare from an old project but the impedance is only 4 Ohms, so would that not be suitable in this application? I think THIS is the model.

cheers. :)
12-03-2010, 18:08
Jonboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre

Am i seeing things or does that say £180.00 ish quid

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%91%E3.../dp/B00009VMFU

Thats what it looks like to me as well
12-03-2010, 18:13
twelvebears

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre

Am i seeing things or does that say £180.00 ish quid

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%91%E3.../dp/B00009VMFU

No you're correct but they are sold individually, not as pairs. I can confirm this from the fact that mine arrived individually boxed with a set of instructions in each. Weird but true...
12-03-2010, 18:20
Rare Bird

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelvebears

No you're correct but they are sold individually, not as pairs. I can confirm this from the fact that mine arrived individually boxed with a set of instructions in each. Weird but true...

Bloody hell glad you told me that i've been sat here half an hour considering buying those from Amazon
12-03-2010, 18:32
twelvebears

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre

Bloody hell glad you told me that i've been sat here half an hour considering buying those from Amazon

Also worth noting that Amazon have country restrictions and won't ship outside Japan....
12-03-2010, 18:34
twelvebears

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre

Bloody hell glad you told me that i've been sat here half an hour considering buying those from Amazon

They are lovely things though. Thought long and hard about whether to buy them and whether they'd be any good but I've not been disappointed. :eyebrows:
12-03-2010, 21:24
Themis

Steve, this is a very nice new avatar !!! :)

(sorry for the OT, guys)
12-03-2010, 21:46
Ali Tait

So have you got better bass and mid now? ;)
12-03-2010, 22:18
Rare Bird

:popcorn:
13-03-2010, 10:40
twelvebears

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themis

Steve, this is a very nice new avatar !!! :)

(sorry for the OT, guys)

Why thank you!!!! ;)

Spotted it the other day on a bog and it made me chuckle and I though it quite appropriate.
13-03-2010, 10:50
The Grand Wazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelvebears

Why thank you!!!! ;)

Spotted it the other day on a bog and it made me chuckle and I though it quite appropriate.

Wow!
There are some really artistic cottagers in your neck of the woods! That's nothing like the sort of art I see on bogs round these parts!
13-03-2010, 13:35
Marco

Indeed - we get things like: 'Elaine C is a total shag', 'I had a w*nk here 14/2/10', etc, etc, and very occasionally something midly witty such as: 'If you're reading what I've put, you may be pissing on your foot'...

<Snigger> :eyebrows:

Marco.
13-03-2010, 20:55
jantheman

My favourite is 'Beware Limbo Dancers'...
13-03-2010, 22:43
The Grand Wazoo

I always used to like 'Don't put cigarette butts in the urinal unless you want the cleaner to piss in your ashtray'
14-03-2010, 00:42
Marco

Haha, yes I remember that one! Sometimes we get budding poets leaving little ditties on walls, such as:

'There was an old whore from Berlin, who had an erormous great quim. It wasn't the size that attracted the flies, but the jelly that hung round the rim'...

Or:

There was an old hillbilly called Hank who went off to the woods for a wank. He came to a bear, who whipped off his pair - now Hank's got no reason to wank'...

Arf! Doncha just lurve quality thread drift :eyebrows:

Marco.
14-03-2010, 02:05
Jonboy

There once was a woman from eeling who had a perculier feeling, she laid on her back and opened her crack and pissed all over the ceiling.
i have many more to share

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