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We observers of human nature tend to be a bit cynical I'm afraid. The possibility that a post criticising a product produced by someone with whom you had a business relationship that ended in an acrimonious split, was likely to be balanced, sort of stretches the imagination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Figlet108
I think the time has come to stop this nonsense as it is only going to end up with regrets on both sides. Life is too short to argue over a length of copper... :confused:
Normally I would agree. I don't like conflict.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
However I like bad faith even less and my hackles were raised by this and certain other connected incidents. But I will add nothing further to this thread.
Just my observation...........
One member posted that as he owned some NVA kit he was entitled to his own opinion, when I posted my genuine thoughts on one particular product from the range, and how I believed it sounded better than a more expensive one, I had a round of four letter words thrown at me......shan't say from whom.....
I also note that threads contains a certain three letters of the alphabet seem to end the way this one is going.....
Hi Jason,Quote:
Originally Posted by Figlet108
Before I go any further, in terms of moderating this thread, could you please confirm (or deny) that it was you who fitted the Neutrik plugs to the NVA interconnects, shown in the picture you posted earlier?
Once I know the answer to that, I'll comment further.
However, as a point for general consumption, I'd like to state that Barry has no issues whatsoever with Richard Dunn or NVA. He has absolutely no interest in any inter-forum contretemps. The (now deleted) comments he made were strictly about the construction of the cables (as he observed them), shown in the picture Jason posted, which now seem to be a misrepresentation of the NVA interconnects in question.
Marco.
Hi Craig,Quote:
Originally Posted by icehockeyboy
Did this occur on the open forum, and if so, where?
Marco.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
We have discussed this before, and I didn't mention where it happened as it was pointed out to me that it was wrong to mention where, so I didn't.
I felt the need to mention it however as it was mentioned earlier that by owning kit from a manufacturer should give one the right to pass an opinion on it.
It seems in this case that is not true.
I hope that I have not contravened any rules? After all I didn't mention where it happened, only that it did.
Sorry, Craig. I have no idea what you mean. Unless you can express yourself more clearly and explain what your issue is, then I'm unable to see what relevance your comments have to this thread :scratch:
Marco.
I don't usually comment on this sort of thing but in the interest of fairness it should be noted that there have been a number of "uninformed" posts on this thread. Whilst I also agree that it is best that they are deleted, why is it that you have only taken offence at Barry's comments? The Post by Audioman is specifically accusing an individual of deliberately misrepresenting the facts without a shred of evidence, included the rantings of an individual from another forum and certainly needs to be removed and an apology offered.Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
Quite simple really Marco, in one post in this thread Figlet108 who owns equipment / wires made by NVA, states that as he owns them, he is entitled to his opinion on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I point out that isn't the case, as I had previously also pointed out, not in this forum by the way, that my genuine thoughts were that I believed the cheaper Sound Cords were better than the more expensive Sound Pipes.
It was at that stage that I was PM'd' by you know who with a barrage of four letter words on how dare I make such a statement and what did I know about these things.
Clear now?
Yup, ok - no worries :)
Andy, you make a very good point, and this is something I'll be dealing with as soon as Jason answers the question I asked him.
Marco.
I have both Sound Cords and SSP's. Both seem thankfully free of colouration. In the spirit of equality I also own an equal number of Mark Grant cables, lowest in range and HD1000 they too a very open.
SSP have a very inflexible cable that takes some getting used to to handle. I unfortunately got the minimum length to connect between two boxes without realising how inflexible they were. I can see why some may have strained the cable plug interface when tightly located but with patience and care they are fine.
The anti NVA RD spirit afoot in AoS is regrettable
And of course there is no anti-AoS spirit afoot on HFS?? Get real, Alan! Unfortunately, as the old saying goes: 'you reap what you sow'...Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanS
However, that aside, I would not allow a product from any manufacturer (NVA or otherwise) to be deliberately misrepresented (if indeed that's what has happened here). If that is the case, the situation will be rectified.
Marco.
Possibly caused by the actions (certainly in my case) of a certain individual ?Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanS
As I state in an earlier post I believe the Sound Cords are excellent, well priced cables, so at least I'm not anti NVA.
Indeed, and it should be noted that when Barry realised his error and made a sincere apology, like the true gentleman that he is, it was treated with derision and venom by the hyaenas there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I've Googled HFS but can't see a forum, could someone post a link or put its full name up please, I'm inquisitive to take a peep! :)
Hi Marco,
no, the history of that cable is this: I was being mocked by a friend at work for being an audiophool to believe that cables make a difference, so I challenged him to buy a top interconnect (obviously I recommended SSP as I know that cable well) to see if he could tell the difference in his system. I told him I'd take it off his hands if he really couldn't hear anything (and he had a suitable forfeit if he could hear the difference). He couldn't hear any difference.
Anyway, that's how I ended up with the cable. I have never bought SSP from Richard with the Pro-fi option as my cable was bought ages ago before he had that option. And having personal experience with them breaking I told my friend to buy the Pro-fi version.
The matching cable is not broken, and out of interest here's some photos of a much better construction job. In particular look how the strain relief in the last photo is tight around the cable and doing its job. That I suspect this is the crux of whether these things will break or not.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i...356_resize.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v...357_resize.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C...358_resize.JPG
Quite so. I think that some people need to take their blinkers off and 'smell the coffee'! Barry's magnanimous gesture should've instead been recognised and appreciated. However, it shows the character of the people you're dealing with.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Marco.
P.S Jason, thanks for the added info. Most interesting... I'll get to it later. Just need to pop out for a bit :)
TBH Alan, since I got up this morning I'm feeling more of an anti-Figlet spirit afoot here.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanS
I have made no personal remarks against anyone or strayed off topic for any reason even when being attacked. All the nastiness and negative tone has come from others both on this forum and from another forum...
The question that should be asked is why is it ALWAYS the other person's fault when RD falls out with someone, and NEVER his?? It's always the other person who is the bad guy! :mental:
The fact is, all the folk he's fallen out with over the years can't ALWAYS have been in the wrong............!!
Quite simply, RD has a unique propensity to fall out with people (mostly in a rather spectacular way), and the list of those he's fallen out with is a very long one indeed, therefore regardless of any faults his 'enemies' may or may not have, the statistics ably prove that that is not the main problem: it is HIM (and his disgraceful attitude towards people he takes an [often irrational] dislike to). I've never known anyone like him who continually thrives on conflict... :doh:
I live in hope that one day before RD pops his clogs, he'll take a long hard look in the mirror and have the gumption to acknowledge and embrace the reality of why he's made so many enemies, ready to stick the boot into him for his past 'transgressions', whenever a suitable opportunity presents itself, and made so few real friends, throughout his miserable life.
Anyway, must dash... Laters!
Marco.
Marco, obviously I agree with what you say.
However, let's be clear that in this thread I didn't see anyone sticking the boot into RD or NVA.
If I had responded to a different post about say Monster cable which I might own, and said similar things that maybe they sound good but were ugly and badly made etc, folks considering a purchase would be grateful for someone's real experience of something they were interested in. All I have actually said in this thread is that they sound great but can break as construction quality is not an NVA strong-point in my opinion. And I have provided proof, both that I like the sound since I have bought a number of pairs and that construction can be poor by providing photos. Nothing personal, no attacks, just pros and cons like every product has.
But in this case what has happened is this. RD has a website where he promotes and instills hatred against other people he doesn't like, other companies he doesn't like, other industries he doesn't like etc etc and none of those injured parties have any right of reply or way of defending themselves - it's a hate fest over there and anyone can see it.
Look at the hatred generated against MCRU or anyone in sales and distribution and the potential damage to their livelihoods. Look at the hatred generated against you, Synsei, Sov, the moderators here, the folks at AudioChews, various folks at PFM and wigwam, audiosmile the list goes on and on and on.
What concerns me is that in the early days it was just RD on his own, almost ranting to himself in the Elsewhere thread, but now that hatred has attracted and spread to others: DQ, Jammy, Terry, etc etc.
In my case I've been publicly called a cunt by Shane Lonergan and a twat by Zebbo - two people that I have never met, never spoken to and who know nothing whatever of what has happened between me and RD. All they have heard is the lies, libel and hate that RD practices on his site.
And now we have new people getting sucked into RD's hate brigade as you can see from this thread - they were as likely as not insighted to come here and stir things up by RD's hate brainwashing, which as we can see succeeded.
Hmmm,
Well I wasn't going to join in again but this requires an answer.
My input on this thread has nothing at all to do with Richard Dunn. I joined his forum to voice my disgust at the actions of a certain party who has used this thread for his own ends, having delighted in bragging about it on PFM and been supported in his actions by other members there. I see this thread as just a continuation of that mind set.
Whatever you think of Richard Dunn, it has no bearing on this forum. If you feel he deserves everything he gets, and I am agnostic on this, apart from him calling me an idiot once, I don't know him, then why on earth would you want to go down to his level (if thats what it is) and use another forum to hit back at him.
This is all about using AOS for ones own purpose to justify ones own actions. Using examples of other people who have 'suffered' at RD's hands is just clouding the issue and throwing a smokescreenin order to appear the injured party. Thats shouldn't be what this forum is for.
Thats the only reason I got involved in this thread.
I'm sorry Marco, but I think your comments were uneccessary too. Surely you can rise above the level you are so critical of?
99% of the time, Gordon, I do. However, sometimes certain things need saying. Anyway, you're right, the discussion has veered widly off-topic, so let's bring it back on track. I'm a little busy at the moment, and so will address Jason's earlier post (where he posted further pictures of the cable in question) when I'm free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Steadman
However, in the meantime, could you clarify what you mean by this (as I'm unsure of exactly what you're referring to):
Cheers! :)Quote:
"I joined his forum to voice my disgust at the actions of a certain party who has used this thread for his own ends, having delighted in bragging about it on PFM and been supported in his actions by other members there."
Marco.
Gordon, I'm confused, I don't post on PFM, or did you mean something else?
Also, if you want to interpret my 3 original posts on here about the cable as posting with a hidden agenda to get back at RD that's fine, you are entitled to your view. Others hopefully will see it for what it was: a pros and cons view based on experience.
As for getting back at RD, there is nothing I can say to damage RD and NVA more than he does himself with many of his posts on HFS and how he sometimes treats customers. I have no interest at getting back at RD as it's a childish waste of life and utterly pointless . However, I do have an interest in clearing my name of the lies and libel that has been spread by him that insights people that don't know me or what has actually happened to hate me and publicly insult me.
What do you think Gordon? Do I have a right to clear my name and answer to accusations? Does RD have a right to post publicly whatever he wants regardless of truth and validity without right of reply? How would you feel?
After RD himself dragged our break up into the public domain I have said that I have nothing to hide and will gladly answer to any accusations and take responsibility for my actions and words. Twice I have tried to do that on HFS, which I believe is the appropriate place so as not to torture any other innocent forums. Both times I have had my defense and myself removed, despite sticking to RD's own rules on posting, and history is re-written according to Dunne.
Please find anything of my defense anywhere on the internet and show it to me. It doesn't exist. It's been deleted.
Believe it or not Gordon, reading lies and hate about myself on a public forum is very upsetting to me. Maybe others are more robust, but we have all had different childhood experiences that have shaped our adulthood, and in my case I don't have a thick skin
I'm sorry, it could have been the Wigwam, my memory for that may be faulty but not for the event. You say any evidence has been deleted?? Then it would be difficult to prove wouldn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Figlet108
My interest here right or wrong, was to point out that there was a conflict of interest. Anything you say about NVA products has to be filtered through the knowledge that you were once involved
with the company and have fallen out with Richard Dunn. Whether you like it or not, admit it or not there is bound to be some suspicion that you have ulterior motives. You would do better to do what I would have suggested and walked away totally, in no way trying to get back at Richard Dunn for whatever reason and certainly not raising the possibility of accusations like those you have here by criticising his products in such a way. People who are unaware of your problems with NVA would not be able to make a rational decision and would in fact, be in danger of being misled.
Your thin skin I can do nothing about I'm afraid, we all take responsibilities for our own actions and if we find ourselves under pressure, its tough but something we just have to cope with.
Oooh, it's like being back at school. Chill out guys, put your feet up and open a beer and let it all become water under the bridge. Life's too short and none of this is worth getting steamed up about.
http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/224.gif
This is now way off thread, but yes Gordon you are right it would be very hard to prove, that is EXACTLY why Richard Dunn deletes history and writes his own. I have seen the problems between Jason and Richard Dunn unfold along with many many many others, . I have also seen how Richard Dunn will delete anything that does not fit with his own view of himself and he will continue to manipulate arguments to fit his own agenda time and time again. He is the final authority of his own forum and the moderators can do very little, if anything, without his say so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Steadman
I have seen the above manipulation of historic facts time and time again it would frustrate me no end. It frustrated me even more when lies and accusations were written about me and my name and intentions were smeared so much that the other few loyalists just believed the lies. It was at the time that I was told to Piss Off, I decided to close the door on Richard Dunn, however not on NVA as I find the amplifiers to be some of the best.
Sorry Gordon, but I don't see what business any of this is to you. Who made you the morality police in this matter? :scratch:
This is exactly what I feared would happen. Am I the only one who can see the pain and anguish that is being instilled here and we all know where it originates from. Some people have talked in the past about the need to develop a thick skin when dealing with Mr Dunn. Why? Take a moment to think about that. What if someone were to treat you in the manner which is de rigeur on HFS when out in public? How would you deal with it? How did you deal with it? I'm sure it must have happened once or twice. There is no excuse for rudeness and this has gone way beyond that.
The irony of Mr Dunn's rants about the industry are not lost on me. I've noticed that he saves his most potent ire for those, mainly British concerns, which are more successful than his and anybody who supports those concerns, be they customers or agents. He justifies his actions by spouting off about how Naim & Linn were instrumental in 'destroying' the industry late last century and he also blames them for the loss of his previous business, and yet here we are in 2013 and many of us have fine British products sat in our racks sourced from independent home grown businesses which aren't called Naim or Linn, although these two outfits play their part too. For me this demonstrates his real weakness. Any business owner worth his or her salt would adapt to survive. This may involve restructuring the business, re-positioning it in the marketplace and/or changing its marketing policy. However Mr Dunn cannot do this as he has painted himself into a corner with his constant demonisation of manufacturers, dealers and their methods, and yet the only thing these concerns are guilty of is good business practice. They adapted therefore they survived... Put simply, his pride won't let him adapt in the manner he should. To act on any of the points I made he would need to become the enemy and that will never happen. Eventually natural selection will take its course and NVA will go out of business because he will simply run out of people who want to deal with him.
If you can't see that openess and honesty are to be strived for then good luck. One is expected to declare an interest if pushing a product if you are connected with it and I would expect the same if the reverse is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canetoad
The real sad point is he could have been very successful if only he knew how to deal with people. I would consider myself a very loyal NVA supporter and still am, but the way I was treated was just too much, but more than that the way I saw others treated just pissed me off and I couldn't be part of it any longer.
I agree with that 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovereign
Gordon, can you not see I am chomping at the bit to be open and honest about what has happened? I am objecting because of the lack of openness and honesty offered to me. I would HAPPILY state the truth from my perspective and subject myself to anyone's questioning so as to clear my name. Clearly I can't do that on HFS as has been proved twice, but I would welcome the chance to do it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Steadman
I can't be more open and honest than that can I? It's not that I'm guiltless of all mistakes in this and I've never pretended to be, so I'm not going to come out whiter than white, but let's at least expose the truth... and then if people want to hate me they can at least do it for legitimate reasons.
That is entirely up to Marco, if he thinks he needs your side of the story then fine. At the end of the day, in the final analysis, when all is said and done.............in the end.....whatever, you know my reasons for entering the fray, whatever happens now is not up to me is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Figlet108
I offered advice, which Barry seemed to feel was sensible and so he acted on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BTH K10A
I am not sure why you assume that I took offence at Barry's comments, after all, you agree that it is best that they were deleted.
Like Marco, I would like to know what had been done with the cable in the photograph, and even was it manufactured by NVA?
Like a number of others on his forum, I feel that here is more to the accusations than meets the eye. If I am incorrect then of course I will apologise.
All the best. Guy
edit - I replied to BTH's comment before seeing the updates to the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
Why have you only selectively quoted me and not answered my question regarding Audioman's post?
Whilst I understand there is a history of events that has to be taken into account is still does not diminish the fact that the post by Audioman was unacceptable. I merely wondered why, that same "advice" you gave to Barry was not proffered to Audioman and why I assmed you took offence at Barry's post as notwithstanding he had already offered an apology.
Originally Posted by BTH K10A
I don't usually comment on this sort of thing but in the interest of fairness it should be noted that there have been a number of "uninformed" posts on this thread. Whilst I also agree that it is best that they are deleted, why is it that you have only taken offence at Barry's comments? .
For clarity, the full quote should be as follows:
"I don't usually comment on this sort of thing but in the interest of fairness it should be noted that there have been a number of "uninformed" posts on this thread. Whilst I also agree that it is best that they are deleted, why is it that you have only taken offence at Barry's comments? The Post by Audioman is specifically accusing an individual of deliberately misrepresenting the facts without a shred of evidence, included the rantings of an individual from another forum and certainly needs to be removed and an apology offered."
edit - I replied to BTH's comment before seeing the updates to the thread.[/QUOTE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figlet108
Side-stepping all the drama...Quote:
Originally Posted by Figlet108
(I believe, someone already pointed out in this thread) ...and as someone who does most of his own servicing and has built his own phono pres, preamps, guitar amps and makes his own cables... I have to say... these two pictures represent how I would NEVER do things. It most certainly IS possible, perhaps a PITA, to leave a whole lot less lead exposed (especially hot/signal lead). That much seems abundantly clear from the photos and doesn't at all look "rigged" to me; just a fast job without nit-picking one's work. I would not accept this kind of work from myself and surely would be ticked off if I paid a high price for cables dressed this way. I was dressing cables better than these two pictures represent when I was a teen in high school... ...with a pencil iron and a razor blade, no less.
Again, this has nothing to do with how I do or don't feel about RD/NVA; but, everything to do with minimizing (if even remotely) the possibility of electrical fault. Why chance it ? Yes, IMO (and those of my mentors), that could have and should have been dressed better. Having said that, I don't really prefer these connectors; but, that has no bearing on how they should be assembled.
Just my tuppence...
The facts were misrepresented. I will concede it may not be deliberate but Jason later admits he further stripped back the cable to repair it so making the damage appear worse. Also failed to admit these had been purchased by his friend so he was likely unaware of any mishandling done between them coming from Richard Dunn and his acquiring them. Also he has a history with Richard Dunn which involved evidence being found according to RD of his interfering with HFS web site. Whether the accusations are true or not given the history between Jason and RD it can't be ruled out that the way he presented that photograph may have been somewhat influenced by their relationship. So there is no way I will withdraw any comment except to apologise to Barry who innocently took everything at face value before making his unwise criticisms.Quote:
Originally Posted by BTH K10A
Paul.
Is this the same Richard?
Mr Richard Dunn (born 66 years ago)
Director, Company Director
09 Mar 1991 — Close Closed • Open0• Retired0 • Closed2
Ms Susan Hood
Company Secretary
09 Mar 1991 — Close Closed • Open0• Retired0 • Closed1
Mr Thomas Andrew Hood (born 61 years ago)
Director, Sales Executive
09 Mar 1991 — 20 Mar 1992 (1 year, 11 days) Retired • Open0• Retired1 • Closed0
NENE VALLEY AUDIO LIMITED
Mr Richard Dunn (born 66 years ago)
Director, Director
25 May 2010 — Close Closed • Open0
• Retired0
• Closed2
Ms Nadejda Dunn
Company Secretary
25 May 2010 — Close Closed • Open0 • Retired0 • Closed1
07 Jan 2011
Second Notification Of Strike-off Action In London Gazette (section 652) PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
24 Sep 2010
First Notification Of Strike-off Action In London Gazette (section 652) PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
21 Sep 2010
Application For Striking Off PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
26 May 2010
New Incorporation Documents PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
All this information is in the public domain and more, so I hope the facts are correct, and not like some guess work.
Some good points Dave. Richard should learn how to deal with people better and be polite to awkward customers even if they are unreasonable. That is what any other retailer has to do to be successful. However as far as the internet is concerned there are a number of people who deliberately go out of their way to provoke him or smear his products. As far as his rantings about the hi-fi industry (Linn and Naim) much is very true from everything I've heard down the years. There are a good number of UK brands that failed due to the pressure on dealers to push those products. I would suggest we still have a number of other UK manufacturers in spite of the 'Flat Earth' obsession. Fortunately over the last 20 years the situation has changed. However many notable brands have survived through exports and virtually giving up on the UK market through the bad years.Quote:
Originally Posted by synsei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdna
Don't have a clue what any of it means.
Thats brave of you to say that. Don't you get wee hints and clues to build some insight?
Me neither... It's potentially interesting, though! Perhaps James would simply 'spit out' in plain English what he's attempting to put across? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by chelsea
I will decline commenting further on recent posts, and on the crux of this thread, until everyone has had their (fair) say on the matters currently under discussion.
However, in future, it's likely that we'll be applying a ban on any discussions of NVA or RD (out with of purely hi-fi-related matters and sales threads), as all it does is causes disruption and drags AoS down to the gutter level of RD and his cronies/sycophants.
Marco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTH K10A
I quoted the part that I was responding to - I think that that is normal when clarity is being sought.
ooh look, done it again.
All the best. Guy
Hi Marco,
I was hoping it is the guy that made NVA Amps and to get maybe the duff two I have fixed, they belonged to my son Andrew, he passed away a few years ago now, and he loved them.
I would loved to hear them working again.
Jim (not James please)
Hi Jim (sorry, you put James on your profile, hence why I addressed you as such),
No worries, I see. Have you been unable to get in touch with Richard to have the faulty amps repaired?
Marco.
I think it's called 'selective quotation', or to put it more succinctly, 'twisting the facts to support an agenda 'Quote:
Originally Posted by BTH K10A: Why have you only selectively quoted me .....?
All the above posts aside, I'm sure NVA would be delighted to get these cables working for you again and, like other cables that used a fairly similar type of cable (Chord Co. Solid, which came in a very inflexible style to start with and a thinner and slightly easier type later on), I strognly recommend great care and a sensible attitude when using them once repaired to allow them a very long life. Just remember they are NOT stranded :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdna
They are amps.Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Hi JimQuote:
Originally Posted by Werdna
Just look him up on eBay which is where he now trades. Go to the hi-fi section and search for NVA. I'm sure you can contact him through there.