i have one in my box.. no where near in my view.. its closer to the m97/v15Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Printable View
i have one in my box.. no where near in my view.. its closer to the m97/v15Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Steve,
I agree - most music I listen to is 'beat driven', so bass response is very important. But as with anything else, quality is much more important than quantity. Frankly, I'd rather have no bass than bad bass - deep bass is a bonus, but it must be tightly controlled, and above all, rhythmic and tuneful.Quote:
in my view a good level of bass is more important
Fortunately, the M3D passes the test. Its qualities in the bass are quite phenomenal. I have never heard such control, power, and authority in the lower registers from any cartridge in the 25+ years I've been into serious hi-fi.
*BUT*, and it's a big 'but'... As you know, getting serious performance from an M3D is not easy. It's about as far from 'plug & play' as you can get! One has to remember that it is from a different era where the thinking in hi-fi was diametrically opposed to that of today. I would advise anyone who's considering obtaining one not to do so unless they have the following:
1) A quality 'classic-style' turntable: i.e. Thorens TD124, Garrard 301/401, SP10, SL-1200/1210, Lenco, etc, on which to accommodate a high-mass tonearm. Modern belt-drive motor units wouldn't cope with the demands of the mass and also a cartridge tracking at 3-4g. 'Dynamic wow', amongst other things, would be a major issue, nor would the M3D fit (and proper alignment be acheived) on headshells partnering the arms normally used on these turntables.
2) As stated, a high-mass arm, preferably with a detachable headshell to facilitate the use of one of the many ultra-high mass detachable headshells on the market (and they'll need to be big, too!) necessary to provide the M3D with something suitable to 'work against' and thus an 'operating environment' which resembles as close as possible the massively constructed broadcast arms that would have partnered it originally.
3) And very importantly, a high quality, neutral sounding MM phono stage, preferably valve, as the (in general) greater musical resolution will help open up the M3Ds top-end and give it more 'air and space'. Also, as neutral and revealing a system as possible to partner it, particularly loudspeakers.
The M3D is a detailed and revealing cartridge (within the boundaries of its frequency range) but it is also 'rich' in terms of tone and with a powerful, deep bass, so any system which has the propensity to sound 'muddy' or 'tubby' and/or already has a bass-rich balance in terms of the cumulative sonic signature imposed by other components will not be suitable.
If you can tick all the boxes above then scour Ebay and find one of these gems for yourself, because trust me, once you've heard what it can do with music, and the magic it teases out of those grooves, you won't want to return to a cold and clinical sounding (in comparison) modern device! ;)
Marco.
Steve 51 :dummy: 13500hz for me 63 :smoking: I'll bring my Visaton horn tweeters to Eggborough if you want, my fostex roll off at 12khz and they sound dead without the tweeters to 35khz, sweeps are single tone only usefull for spotting humps and dips, clean top end adds body too.
I dont think the M3D drops like a stone like my speakers.
You can expect a few questions about OB's I've got some Field Coils comming.
Will.
Will, are you really 63? You don't look it, mate! I'd have pegged you as ten years younger :smoking:
Marco.
One day, you guys will realise that LP's don't always have much bass on them (apart from the classic era of 12" singles when most of the eq and limiting was turned off). Adding it back in with a beefy sounding cartridge reminds me of the whole LP12/Ittok era, the deck adding its own character.
I suspect the Decca's do sound a bit like a well loaded V15 - ruler flat response out to 12KHz or so and what's above depending on the stylus and sample of cartridge (I wish I still had those old HiFi Sound mags from the late sixties to scan and post...).
Hi Dave,
Sorry matey, I know where you're coming from but that's not quite the full story. Yes, some LPs don't have much bass on them for the reasons given, but there are plenty that do, genuinely - and when it's here the M3D makes the most of it!! You must not have a system that is capable of revealing the full (visceral) impact of deep bass notes on recordings to make that statement.Quote:
One day, you guys will realise that LP's don't always have much bass on them (apart from the classic era of 12" singles when most of the eq and limiting was turned off).
I was just talking to Martin about the live Kraftwerk box set 'Minimum Maximum' on another thread (Andy's Usher one in Strokes of Genius - see here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...2415#post42415) and if you play tracks such as 'Dentaku' or 'Electro Kardiogramm' through a good system with big speakers, the deep bass on those tracks is quite phenomenal and will simply pin you to your seat and 'energise' the room! That's what it does in my system. If you're not hearing that type of effect with vinyl, then don't blame the recording 'cos it's there!! :ner: ;)
I could name tons of other albums I've got which give a similar effect in terms of bass impact. Shpongle, anyone? In fact, anyone who heard my 1210 playing Massive Attack, amongst other stuff, in the AOS room at the Scalford Hall show would I'm sure testify to the fact that deep bass does exist on vinyl!! 12" singles? Let's not even go there!!! :lol:
The M3D handles lower registers in the right way, typically like high quality big speakers with large bass drivers, in that it can sound quite bass-light with some recordings because it only reproduces bass when it's there on the recording, not some false superimposed coloration, but when it is there then you hear it all in its thunderous glory :eyebrows:
The DL-103SA also does this, minus an octave or two in comparison... ;)
No, that's not what is happening at all!! I would never seek to create that sort of euphonic coloration in my system. I'm sure that Steve (SPS) would confirm this, having heard his T/T, cartridge and amp in my system. You obviously don't know me as well as I thought you did!!Quote:
Adding it back in with a beefy sounding cartridge reminds me of the whole LP12/Ittok era, the deck adding its own character.
You really must pop up to North Wales sometime so I can suitably 'educate' you in the ways of the Marco-boy, and then we won't be having silly conversations like this in future :cool:
Marco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will
not another ob experimenter...!! will they be at eggborough?
i'll be looking forwards to hearing some field coils.. it will be a first for me..
scott and ed came around on friday night to hear my now not so new baffles
scott said they where the best he'd heard them.
i can't help but want to try and improve things more..
i've been looking at some rather large drivers for the sub 100hz
cheers steve
I'd love to come up to see you, but it's out of the question right now. I haven't seen my family in years and I suspect it'll be a funeral that'll bring me up your way ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
To cut deep bass on any record needs LOTS of "land" to contain the squiggles. The groove should often be a bit deeper too, to prevent cheap pickups from jumping (for a OTT example look at the infamous telarc 1812 cut, which had bass down to 18Hz or so).
Most "commercial" LP's (yes, even Kraftwerk) would have the bass mono'd below 80Hz and mostly filtered away below 40Hz or so. This could be re-constituted by a cartridge with a severe rise in response below 30Hz I suppose. Using a massive arm/shell may reduce this to acceptable levels I suspect. I do agree that most LP players out there reproduce "bass" as a distorted 60 - 80Hz bloooooooooooom...........
Sadly I no longer have the ATC 100A's which went flat to 45Hz and with a very gentle rolloff with useful output at 20Hz. The BC2's, although tamed, roll off below 60Hz and there's little there below 40Hz in-room apart from in the cloakroom, where the deeper wavelengths are just audible ;). I do remember the IMF's we used to sell, which really did have seizemic bass down to 14Hz, enough on a master copy of DSOTM to rattle the windows severely.
I very much respect bigger speakers like yours Marco and would love to hear them (not too loud please, as my ears will no longer take it..:( ).
I have my spies out and hope to find an el-cheapo M3D in due course.....
Regarding the first point, I guess it must do, as there is no "bloooooooooooom" with the M3D on the Techy/Jelco SA-750D/FR S/5 combo, or indeed with my system as a whole. Quite simply, high-quality direct-drive T/Ts don't do 'bloom' when set-up and partnered properly in the right system: they just reveal exactly what's on the record, full bass notes and all - and so does the M3D ;)Quote:
Using a massive arm/shell may reduce this to acceptable levels I suspect. I do agree that most LP players out there reproduce "bass" as a distorted 60 - 80Hz bloooooooooooom...........
You're welcome to come up to mine any time :)
Incidentally, only get an M3D when you can say "yes" to all (and I mean ALL) of the prerequisites I listed above, otherwise you're wasting your time and will only end up with a false impression.
Marco.
Ah! PX4 now your'e talking Steve...Quote:
Originally Posted by SPS
Crikey, if Steve is a youngster at 51 then I'm still in nappies! :lolsign: My hearing is a bit better than 14Khz....but I take your point. Still I think its unwise to just ignore the upper registers as these are sensed more than heard.
My experiments where with the WAD KiT88 and the WAD K5881 PSE. The PSE nested feedback loops can be tweaked to alter the response... or I could have messed about with a LP filter on the input...anyhow tweaking it to 12K had a very noticeable effect, not just the loss of upper freq response but also loss of mid range detail...
This is a great web site showing instrument freq ranges, no fundamentals up in the regions we are talking about (maybe pipe organ get close) but there are harmonics that stretch past 12KHz.
http://www.independentrecording.net/...in_display.htm
Glad you like the M3D, my points aren't meant to dismiss it or your enjoyment of it but to just say there's a lot of upper freq information that will be missed if the roll off point is too low....
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
thanks neil, thats a good link it equates to my books except on the violin..
which is a difficult one to measure by all accounts.. one books states 15 k and the other which works it out.. based on a good violin thinks 9.8k is about it... for what its worth ?
so on the whole the m3d is not missing much out.. as it does not cut off at 15k .. just drops its output..like our ears
my question about filtering around the 12k mark is that filters are usually.. lets say 12 db or 6 db per octive.. and an octive can extend quite low into the treble... the feed back loop was often used as a tone control on early 'basic' amps and had a shallow slope..
i just wondered if you had used some type of 'brick wall' filter
thanks steve
No brick wall filter Steve, also that 12KHz was the -3db point meaning the response was probably flat up to approx 6Khz rolling of gently past that. I found the effect very noticable....will you bring your setup to Owston?
This would be interesting to try....
http://www.shure.com/stellent/groups...pro_m66_ug.pdf
More Shure info from the 50's...cartridges towards the end...
http://www.coutant.org/shure61/shure61.pdf
thanks..Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
yes..
and eggbrough....
i hope it works this time..
last time was a disaster...
Which variety? Vintage or Fertin/Supravox?Quote:
Originally Posted by Will
Interesting the M3N21D owners manual on VE states the response is out to 20K with conciderable 'response' down to 10Hz and up to 30KHz....
Fantastic links there, Neal... Oh what I'd give for an M236 professional tonearm!!! :eek: :wah:
I shall set a goal to find one somehow, somewhere... :eyebrows:
Could you provide a link to the discussion you're referring to on VE?Quote:
Interesting the M3N21D owners manual on VE states the response is out to 20K with conciderable 'response' down to 10Hz and up to 30KHz....
Marco.
Check this link out, chaps!
http://shure.com/stellent/groups/pub...m3-n21d_ug.pdf
Marco.
No doubt about it Marco -Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Looks like you will have to fit the N21D stylus to your M3D and play it through the M66 equaliser. When you have done that, you can then track down an M3D-LS (Laboratory Standard) to play in your M236 arm!
Happy hunting!
Barry
Well, I've found one!!! But............... It's in shit condition: :(
http://cgi.ebay.com/Shure-Brother-M2...3A1%7C294%3A50
I daren't risk it as it's probably broken. I've even found a headshell to go with it (scroll down and see "Shure Tone Arm Head":
http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html
Pity that wouldn't fit on the Jelco...
Marco.
If anyone fancies bidding on an M3D, here's one on the Bay now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHURE-M3D-STEREO...3A6%7C294%3A50
:)
Marco.
Marco - that one ships to the US only - ya gotta watch out!
Where does it say that, Beechy? All I can see is that shipping to the UK is "not specified" - does that mean categorically that the seller will not ship to the UK?
Oh, and have a look at this:
http://blog.paran.com/blog/detail/po...null&style=Bbs
I've managed to source one identical to the above, but I'm not saying from where ;)
Marco.
Marco - just below that line, it says:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Ships to: United States
Normally, you'd see 'Worldwide' instead of 'United States' if it shipped over here.
TBH it'd be worth asking the seller anyway if you were interested... just don't be surprised if they said no...
Ah, missed that bit matey. I'm ok, I've got one - I was just thinking in case anyone else was interested :)
Incidentally, I've been having a play with my Shure SC35C - here's a pic:
http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=SC35C
Completely ignore the fact that it says it's for DJ and Club use for "scratching and mixing". It may be used in those applications, but trust me, in a high quality T/T and arm, and though a high quality phono stage, this little baby sings like a canary!
It tracks quite happily at 3g (same as the M3D), and like Dave said earlier, is what the BBC used at one point for broadcasting in their radio stations. This is an absolute bargain (they can be picked up new for about £25-30 in the UK!) and gives about 80% of the M3D's performance in a much less expensive, brand new and more user-friendly package.
The SC35C has got a nice 'chunky' bass, but doesn't have the sheer 'balls' and extension in the lower registers of the M3D, nor its cavernous soundstaging and clarity through the midrange, but it's not far off. Musically it is quite similar, being very 'assured' with any recordings you throw at it, detailed and dynamic sounding, and completely un-fatiguing.
It still likes a little more headhshell mass than normal (I found 16g optimal) and a medium to high-mass arm, too, but it's much smaller and lighter than the M3D so isn't as fussy to partner successfully. I'd rate it as every bit as good as a stock DL-103 (and better in some areas), with a similar type of sound, and so therefore an absolute bargain!
If you've got the likes of a Techy with a heavy headshell and a decent MM phono stage, give it a whirl. Honestly, you'll be shocked and stunned at just how good it is for the money :cool:
Marco.
Marco,
Please understand this is not meant to be a veiled insult or anything of the sort. However, I'm interested to hear of the things you've bought in the past that you've instantly regretted.
The reason that I ask is that you are always so effusive about your successful purchases. You do have a way of describing your findings very well, & in a way that enables one to understand what improvements you are finding.
However...........your system is in a constant state of flux...............
I, on the other hand, have settled on a combination which a lot of folk wouldn't be greatly interested in, but would be astounded at what it can do if they took the time to listen to it.
There are things I know that I could do to improve things, and admittedly, I have other priorities for cash right now, but .........I'm happy with it. BUT. If, for some reason, I couldn't ever change it, then it wouldn't be a big problem to me.
You've invested a lot of time (not to say cash) in your hi-fi over the years & I'm as interested in the dogs as I am in the gems!!!!!
LOL. No insult taken, Chris :smoking:
Good question, btw... I'm just about to spin a few more tunes on the Techy then off to bed, so I'll come back to you tomorrow on this :)
Marco.
No problems, I await with baited breat for your reply.......... Or replies?
Maybe this would be better in a standalone or different thread?
Ah! Good to see you found the document Marco....also did you note the tracking force with the new stylus?
Hi Neal,
Yes I did, but what intrigued me more was your reporting of the difference in frequency response. It will be very interesting comparing the N3D stylus to the N21D when it arrives.
Intriguing stuff this, isn't it - what are your thoughts on the matter? :)
Now to answer the question Chris asked me... :cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco, I'd expect the difference to be similar when going from the 103 to the 103R...an opening up of the HF and perhaps a more detailed and controlled Bass...However as with all things Hi-Fi I reserve the right to be wrong! :lol:
Just seen a 103 thread on PFM recommending the 103 for use in an Ittok...:confused:
Hi Chris,Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
I can see how you'd interpret my current cartridge shenanigans in that way, but the actual fact is my chosen system components stay pretty constant. You'll not read about me chopping and changing my system like our very own (and very nice, grovel, grovel ;)) 'serial box-swapper', Jerry!
I've owned the same speakers (Spendor SP100s) since 2002, the same CDP since 2006, ditto with my preamp, and the same T/T now for nearly two years. Outside of cartridges (yes I do have an unhealthy fetish :eyebrows:) my only recent acquisition is my TD valve amp, and that was bought nearly 10 months ago. I predict that it will stay with me as long as my speakers (and probably even longer).
No, matey, my system is not "in a constant state of flux" - I just love dicking around with (classic) cartridges! Oh the joys of detachable headshells :lol:
As for "dogs" that I've bought in the past; there aren't many because anything (equipment, cables or whatever) that makes it into my system has been very carefully considered, researched, and then auditioned at length - so any mistakes I've made are few and far between.
Outside of small and relatively inexpensive items like cartridges and valves, I don't 'take a punt' on things with the view to selling them on later if I don't like them - it just isn't my way. Once I make the decision to buy new equipment then it has 'passed the test', so I tend to live with it for years and just enjoy the music it makes.
However, I'll give it some thought and if I can think of any gear which fits the category you describe I'll come back and let you know :)
Marco.
The tragedy Marco is that the M3D cost you £80! I bet there are countless small HiFi shops with old'uns shoved in a workshop drawer thinking they're valueless. In fact, I'm counting on it.......;)
I was under the impression that the N21D was eliptical, yet the current replacements (Swiss made?) indicate that they're .0007 conical. Interesting to see if you find the 21D any better.
There's a thread on Vinyl Asylum (I think it's there) that said the M3D original styli suffer from aly fatigue and fracture. Perhaps that's in more humid climes than the UK.
I've found a good M55E but I'd be very scared of using this today. That massive 16KHz resonance peak is worse than a misbehaving Decca and they're bad enough if not fettled properly... I'd sooner have one of my Supexes re-tipped I think.
I look forward to further revelations with interest...
Well I thought the SA sounded good when I heard it Marco, so this must incredible!
PS. Do me a favour and PM me the names of the Kraftwerk album (boxset) you have, and also that wierd movie soundtrack one... Valerie or summat, cheers!! Steve
LOL. I hope you're lucky, mate, and have what you need to optimise it :)Quote:
The tragedy Marco is that the M3D cost you £80! I bet there are countless small HiFi shops with old'uns shoved in a workshop drawer thinking they're valueless. In fact, I'm counting on it....... ;)
Thing is though, with respect, £80 is not much more than a (half) decent night out for me, or 'sweety money', as they say up in Scotland... Especially when I think of the all the supposed 'hi-end' moving coil cartridges I've bought in the past at many times that amount, and then how much the M3D pisses all over them from a great height, £80 is not only a bargain - quite frankly, I've stolen the f*cker! :lol:
So no "tragedy" whatsoever!!
Steve,
Will do! I trust you enjoyed the 'ol Dansette then t'other night? :eyebrows:
Del and I enjoyed your company very much. We must do it again sometime :cool:
Marco.
Wow Marco, you're saying the SC35C sounds as good as a stock 103? If so, then that is just too intriguing not to investigate myself. They go for around $35-40 over here in states and if it sounds as good as the 103, I'll be shocked. I'll have to give it a try sometime. :eyebrows:Quote:
The SC35C.....
. I'd rate it as every bit as good as a stock DL-103 (and better in some areas), with a similar type of sound, and so therefore an absolute bargain!
Jason
Hi Jason,
It doesn't quite have the openness or clarity through the midrange and top-end of the 103 (I don't think many MMs can compete with good MCs in that respect, although the M3D does), but when the SC35C is set-up and partnered properly it's not lacking much in that area - and it has great bass with that 'funky', rhythmic, presentation that the 103 does so well. It is also completely 'unflustered' no matter what you throw at it, making you want to play record after record, forgetting all about the 'hi-fi' in the process and just concentrating on the music...
I guess it's not bad for $35-40 dollars ;)
Marco.
I thought a lot of the SC35C when I used one and while the price is so good, I might get one for the GL75.
According to HiFi Choice, the M97EJ was another goodie - NOT the 95EJ apparently, but stylus quality did vary back then.
These heavy trackers do have quite a droop in treble output that can sometimes be tamed with plenty of capacitive loading - 400pF is normal. less than this emphasises the dullness.
I think you're right Dave in the case of the SC35C - it's not the most 'crisp' sounding cartridge in the world, but neither is it 'dull' in the right set-up. The M3D (partnered and set-up optimally) is a different animal altogether in that respect: think 'Decca-style' midrange without the 'spit' and a lovely open-sounding, communicative style of clarity. Did I mention the stonking bass, too? Oh yes, I have! :eyebrows:Quote:
These heavy trackers do have quite a droop in treble output...
I'm a great believer that only in a neutral, open sounding system will you hear what any components truly sound like. If an M3D, for example, sounds 'dull' and 'bloated' with no top-end then blame your system not the cartridge. What it does is simply not over-emphasise or 'prioritise' the upper frequencies in the way of most modern cartridges (think Goldrings and some current Ortofon MMs, yuk!) It is just very even-handed in that respect, which a good system will showcase properly.
It also has the right amount of bass to give music a proper 'foundation', unlike some of its anaemic-sounding modern counterparts. If you think the M3D sounds 'tubby' or 'bloated' then that's only because the latter sound 'thin' and they're what you're used to and consider as 'normal'! There's a good reason why the Japanese love M3Ds, 103s, SPUs, etc, and it's because as audiophiles in general they're a lot more discerning than we are.
It's my belief that the sea-change in the 'tone' quality and sonic presentation of modern cartridges compared to classics such as the M3D has attuned our ears to a false sound that isn't natural, and thus our 'benchmark' is flawed...
Marco.
GOT ONE!!!! But this M3D needs a new stylus.....
Have you now tried the N21D Marco? If it's an upgrade as originally intended, I'd be more inclined to order one of these...
Hi Dave,
Good news - It'll be interesting to see what you think when you obtain a new stylus :)
The N21D has been shipped from the States but hasn't arrived yet. As soon as it's fitted I'll have a listen and let you know how it compares to the N3D.
Marco.
i found an improvement moving over to the 21, although all mine are pattens
i have quite a few of the round and v stylus types.. about 30 in total.. i got carried away...
sorting the softer ones gives the better tracking.. i've found the tracking is the main issue with the m3d .. thats the only issue really.. once your set up is ok for it
steve
I was given a box full of ancient treasures, many broken though, but there is an Ortofon MC10 II brand new with headshell... There's also a V15 IV, an Empire 2000E IV, and an AT OC30 with intact cantilever but no diamond on the end... Oh yes, a quantity of M75-ED's in various states of wear (how many of these darned things did Shure sell in the seventies?)
I'd like to ask anyone with a few N3D or N21D styli if they've checked the diamonds under a microscope? Shure used lousy quality tips at one time, but I suspect the current "patterns" may well be of better quality. I still flinch at the huge diameter cantilever and wonder if Shure ever did an eliptical version?
Hi Steve,Quote:
i've found the tracking is the main issue with the m3d .. thats the only issue really.. once your set up is ok for it
Do you sometimes get sibilance ('sssh' sounds when words with the letter 's' are sung)?
I get a touch of this now and then with certain recordings and wondered if it was attributed to tracking issues?
Headshell and arm mass, including VTF (at 3g), seems optimal (the cartridge is living in my 17g vintage FR headshell), as voices and instruments are clear, detailed and nicely presented, so I'm loathe to add more mass as I feel that it may tip the balance too much in the way of 'fullness', which I don't want.
I just wondered if you had encountered this before and if so what you did to rectify it? :)
Dave,
Sounds like an interesting box of treasures there! I don't own a microscope, so haven't looked at the tip of the N3D. Interesting that you say Shure once used lousy tips... As my N3D is an original NOS item, this could be an issue, so I suspect that some 'stylus rolling' is imminent! :eyebrows:
It'll be interesting to see what the N21D brings to the party. Personally, I don't get hung up on high VTFs, thick cantilevers, or conical styli which are considered to be technically 'wrong'. It's the sum of the constituent parts that counts, after all, not the individual bits in isolation...
Experience tells me that much of the engaging sonic and musical characteristics of classic cartridges which operate with and possess the above is down to the very fact that they are present - quite simply, much of the 'magic' these cartridges have would be lost if more modern and 'accurate' tips were used.
Sure, there may be some sonic improvements gained in the process, but in many cases at the expense of what gives classic cartridges their 'soul'. One only has to listen to any of the non-spherical tipped 103s, SPUs or EMTs for this fact to be showcased in all its glory. The choice of stylus tip is fundamental to the sonic signature of these classic cartridges, but as ever with hi-fi, chacun à son goût.
I’m hopeful that the N21D will simply improve on the qualities of the N3D without altering the 'magic' of the M3D’s overall musical presentation.
Marco.
Marco have you any experience of the Ortofon SPU?
There's a thread over on PFM that's piqued my interest...the 750D seems to e available off Ebay for 330 notes or so and would seem a possible match....mounting it would be an issue for me so I'd have to make a plinth for the SP10...:scratch:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
yes marco, thats the main issue.. thats why i have tried so many stylus
i've not totally eliminated it ... but its good enough now.. it tracks as well as most carts do in my experence..
the softer the stylus, the better
thets why with a well used stylus, the suspension gives.. improving things in my experence ( i'm talking m3 here)
all stylus need to be run in, extra down force and lots of use.. is the order of the day to speed things up.. but be careful...
i found the n21 improved this and other aspects, without any down sides
best of luck
steve
steve
I'm sure the contact area polishes with running as well, but many cartridges from the seventies had roughly turned and polished diamonds IMO and experience visually. The styli fitted to the better Japanese cartridges were often object lessons in the art of stylus shaping.
I wish I'd had a camera to record it, but the best stylus I EVER saw was from an original Dynavector "Diamond" from the late seventies. The cantilever was better formed and polished than any budget to mid-price stylus tip I'd seen up to that point and as to the exquisite beauty that was the Shibata (?) tip itself, it was a shame to mount the thing up and use it :)
All this cartridge-rolling talk is getting me itchy to bust out my wallet again. I really have to resist... :(
Hi Neal,Quote:
Marco have you any experience of the Ortofon SPU?
There's a thread over on PFM that's piqued my interest...the 750D seems to e available off Ebay for 330 notes or so and would seem a possible match....mounting it would be an issue for me so I'd have to make a plinth for the SP10...:scratch:
I've heard quite a few SPUs over the years in different systems, and thus I'm pretty familiar with it, but have never owned one. I aim to rectify that situation at some point soon, though!
What is it you'd like to know? :)
No doubt the Jelco would suit an SPU really well, but beware of inferior quality items for sale on Ebay - apparently there are some shoddy examples of older models (never used) being sold as new where the bearings have seized.
Marco.