The Funk Firm Technics Platter

Technically, the Funk platter won't need an external PSU, as its mass is identical to that of the stock Techy platter. However, like Martin says, in terms of the optimal order of modifying the Techy, adding a quality external PSU comes first! ;)

Incidentally, as promised, I will be reviewing the Funk Firm platter in detail (and a few other things I've pencilled in) ASAP. I had intended to this at the end of last year, but a family bereavement put paid to that. However, the Funk Firm platter is so special that I simply cannot omit acknowledging how fundamentally it transforms the Techy into a world-class music reproduction machine.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by MartinT

It may not require an external PSU, Jostein, but more to the point why would you want to? You really need to perform the external PSU upgrade first as otherwise you won't get the best from the platter.

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Does the PSU upgrade involve a bit of work? Have not really checked out that. :)

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Originally Posted by jostber

Does the PSU upgrade involve a bit of work? Have not really checked out that. :)

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Yes, it's a little work but not too difficult. Essentially, it involves:
1. Remove the internal transformer and power supply PCB
2. Install a power cable with a solder connection to the PCB and a solder tag to the earth post
3. Add the external PSU of your choice.

Much more info and steps here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8118

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Originally Posted by MartinT

Yes, it's a little work but not too difficult. Essentially, it involves:
1. Remove the internal transformer and power supply PCB
2. Install a power cable with a solder connection to the PCB and a solder tag to the earth post
3. Add the external PSU of your choice.

Much more info and steps here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8118

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Thanks for the link, I will check out the details in this.

Just a quick one before I go for a coffee and left over xmas cake and cheese, the existing power supply does not need to be removed to fit an external power supply, as long as it is dis-connected, so do not worry, I have plenty of customers who could not or did not want to take the existing PSU out and use an external one and it works very well indeed.

My new PSU which is now ready is designed for either with or without the existing PSU in place, not everyone feels able to remove the old one and to be fair is it really neccessary as sound quality does not seem to suffer leaving it in place on all the decks I have heard with it still in place and an external one in use, plus if you ever decide to sell the tech on you don't have to mess about putting the old PSU back in do you?

The best of both worlds, hope that helps someone.

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

Just a quick one before I go for a coffee and left over xmas cake and cheese, the existing power supply does not need to be removed to fit an external power supply, as long as it is dis-connected, so do not worry, I have plenty of customers who could not or did not want to take the existing PSU out and use an external one and it works very well indeed.

My new PSU which is now ready is designed for either with or without the existing PSU in place, not everyone feels able to remove the old one and to be fair is it really neccessary as sound quality does not seem to suffer leaving it in place on all the decks I have heard with it still in place and an external one in use, plus if you ever decide to sell the tech on you don't have to mess about putting the old PSU back in do you?

The best of both worlds, hope that helps someone.

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Hi David a number of people, including myself, have heard an improvement in sound quality by removing the old transformer. If you were using a metal platter mat, Oyaide or copper one the effect might be less but using the Funk Mat/platter or other non metal mat on the standard platter would, I feel, allow the old transformer to affect the sound, if left in place.


Regards D S D L

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Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L

Hi David a number of people, including myself, have heard an improvement in sound quality by removing the old transformer. If you were using a metal platter mat, Oyaide or copper one the effect might be less but using the Funk Mat/platter or other non metal mat on the standard platter would, I feel, allow the old transformer to affect the sound, if left in place.


Regards D S D L

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Even if the transformer is no longer in use & bypassed? IE an external supply fitted :)

Just asking.

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Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant

Even if the transformer is no longer in use & bypassed? IE an external supply fitted :)

Just asking.

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Yes Mark, that is indeed the case.

I think that if one is using a metal platter mat, then that shields the cart from the transformers effect but if you are not then leaving it in has a subtle effects on the cartridge. Its not a massive one but enough of one I feel to warrant removing it from inside the deck.


Regards D S D L

Interesting, cheers Neil :)

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Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant

Interesting, cheers Neil :)

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It may also be cart dependent too.

Years ago I fitted a Grado cart to a mk1 Avid Diva and placing the motor where it was supposed to go resulted in a hum. Even switching the motor off resulted in a slight hum if you tuned the volume up full. Moving the motor to another possible position under the deck cured this but the very presence of the motor was an issue with the Grado's.

I asked Conrad at the time as to why the motor was not shielded in some way and I never got a satisfactory answer, cost I guess + most carts are not effected. Here's the question though even if you can't hear an effect in an obvious way like pick up of hum/noise is the cart still effected but at a very low level and my gut feeling is yes, it is. I think this is the case with leaving the transformer in place; so even if there is no obvious issue there may well be a very low level one.

As the transformer is no longer needed I would whip it out and put it away safely.


Regards D S D L

So effectively it's like some kind of antenna, I think I can go with this as it is a massive coil of wire with a response peaking at low frequencies due to it's inductance (which will be high).

If I run any of my oscilloscopes with no input I tend to see a massacred 50Hz waveform from free air, makes me think you are probably quite right ;)

I too would always remove the transformer.

+1, although I appreciate why David posted what he did.

For some, the convenience of adding a quality off-board PSU, without having to remove the stock internal one, will outweigh the (arguably small) sonic benefits achieved by the latter :)

Marco.

Though it does pose the question as to how far away the unconnected transformer would have to be moved from the turntable to cease having a effect :-).

What effect would removing the mass of the transformer have on the damping (mechanical) of the plinth, and would it alter the levelling of the turntable? I don;t know=, just asking.

Hi Neil,

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Hi David a number of people, including myself, have heard an improvement in sound quality by removing the old transformer. If you were using a metal platter mat, Oyaide or copper one the effect might be less but using the Funk Mat/platter or other non metal mat on the standard platter would, I feel, allow the old transformer to affect the sound, if left in place.

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As an aside, unless I've missed it written on your website somewhere, I never did get to read your thoughts on the modified Techies you've now had extensive experience of using. It must be well over a year now that you've been playing with them, so you must've formed a reasonably conclusive opinion on them?

I.E, what are your thoughts on the subject of how modded Techies fair in comparison to 'proper' audiophile T/Ts of a similar price, and crucially, how in your opinion have they compared with established 'hi-end' T/Ts in your collection, such as the SME20, or other such designs you've reviewed?

I'm sure that your thoughts on the matter would be the subject of much interest... Even if they aren't yet conclusive, a snapshot of your views so far would be appreciated :cool:

Marco.

Hi Nick,

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Though it does pose the question as to how far away the unconnected transformer would have to be moved from the turntable to cease having a effect :-).

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Indeed, and that's why sufficiently long DC leads are supplied with most off-board PSUs, such as the one you fitted to my Paul Hynes unit... Consequently, my SR7EHD is about 2m away from the T/T! ;)

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What effect would removing the mass of the transformer have on the damping (mechanical) of the plinth, and would it alter the levelling of the turntable? I don't know, just asking.

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It's a no on the levelling of the T/T, as this can easily be achieved without the stock transformer in place. As for damping of the plinth, although I haven't tested it objectively (I doubt anyone has), subjectively I can detect no adverse effect in that area, once the transformer has been removed.

I've found that the most influential things to attend to in that area (and in turn isolate the T/T most from the effects of feedback) is swapping the dreadful stock feet, for something like Isonoes, fitting a super-thick solid ebony armboard (the common aluminium ones are not as good in that respect) for use with your tonearm of choice, and swapping the (equally dreadful as the stock feet) stock platter for a Funk Firm one, which is as near to acoustically dead as possible.

Doing all of that goes some way to fundamentally fixing what holds the SL-1200/1200 back from being a genuinely top-class T/T :)

Marco.

One trick to use in determining a deck's isolation characteristics is to rest the stylus on a stationary record and (very) gently tap around the support shelf and the turntable itself while listening through the system. Quite educational.

Indeed, and it's a notorious issue for many direct-drive T/Ts, where one can sometimes 'play the drums' on the plinth....

In terms of education, I recommend you revisit that test after your new ebony armboard has been fitted and report the outcome ;)

Marco.

Don't worry - I will :)

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Originally Posted by Marco

+1, although I appreciate why David posted what he did.

For some, the convenience of adding a quality off-board PSU, without having to remove the stock internal one, will outweigh the (arguably small) sonic benefits achieved by the latter :)

Marco.

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My point exactly :)

Don't forget we are in a very, very small minority, people who are reading our posts and are thinking off going down the modding route don't want to be put off by facing what they may consider the daunting task of removing the PSU etc, etc. I personally think leaving it in does not alter the sound one bit, others may dis-agree, I just wanted to point out that my new PSU works with tech PSU in or removed so gives the customer both options.

Thanks.

To be clear: even if the PSU is left in place it must be disconnected before an external PSU is connected to the main PCB. So must the off-board regulator transistor. Frankly, after doing the above, removing the old gubbins is easy!

It may be easier for technophobes like you dude but not everyone is a DIY expert!

Yes of course remove the wires connecting the existing PSU.

All suppliers of PSU's should provide clear installation instructions as standard one would hope.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Neil,



As an aside, unless I've missed it written on your website somewhere, I never did get to read your thoughts on the modified Techies you've now had extensive experience of using. It must be well over a year now that you've been playing with them, so you must've formed a reasonably conclusive opinion on them?

I.E, what are your thoughts on the subject of how modded Techies fair in comparison to 'proper' audiophile T/Ts of a similar price, and crucially, how in your opinion have they compared with established 'hi-end' T/Ts in your collection, such as the SME20, or other such designs you've reviewed?

I'm sure that your thoughts on the matter would be the subject of much interest... Even if they aren't yet conclusive, a snapshot of your views so far would be appreciated :cool:

Marco.

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Hi Marco

Yes quite correct and the actual beginnings of the related reviews are due soon. One or two (manufacturer/distributor supplied items, they come first) reviews to finish and a few to start but I plan to begin the Technics ones hopefully by Feb, if life does not get in the way again. By begin I mean write up my thoughts so far.

I plan to do platter mats first, then power supplies, isolation, arms (I have a few here) I can and have been using.

One interesting thing I will share is the Oyaide mat sounds best in my experience with a thin rubber mat under it, rather than sitting directly on the standard platter.

I have so far not been able to get my hands on a Oyaide BR One, but I have been playing around with a thin rubber one, which may be similar to it. Oyaide recommend using such themselves and to my ear this combination works very well. I have also tried this with a Mike New platter and so far the rubber mat + Oyaide gives the best sound over any other combination I have tried to date and I have gathered up quite a few over the last 6 months or so. However like all things the devil is in the detail and I will save a fuller expansion of that to the virtual pages of AIHFA.


Regards D S D L

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Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L

Hi Marco

Yes quite correct and the actual beginnings of the related reviews are due soon. One or two reviews to finish and a few to start but I plan to begin the Technics ones hopefully by Feb, if life does not get in the way again. By begin I mean write up my thoughts so far.

I plan to do platter mats first, then power supplies, isolation, arms (I have a few here) I can and have been using.

One interesting thing I will share is the Oyaide mat sounds best in my experience with a thin rubber mat under it, rather than sitting directly on the standard platter.

I have so far not been able to get my hands on a Oyaide BR One, but I have been playing around with a thin rubber one, which may be similar to it. Oyaide recommend using such themselves and to my ear this combination works very well. I have also tried this with a Mike New platter and so far the rubber mat + Oyaide gives the best sound over any other combination I have tried to date and I have gathered up quite a few over the last 6 months or so. However like all things the devil is in the detail and I will save a fuller expansion of that to the virtual pages of AIHFA.


Regards D S D L

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I am so glad you agree about the thin rubber mat as I could not post to say it's brilliant until someone agreed with me for obvious reasons! I gave a few away to my existing Oyaide mat owners and they all agreed (both of them :lol:)

Thanks for the feedback, the Oyaide thin rubber mat costs £35, mine costs £10, luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years so did not need to search for a suitable material for long!

Was wondering when you would be reviewing the blue horizon mat I gave you IN SEPTEMBER.:lol:

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

..............luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years

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Jeez, you must sweat a lot!

Nice one, Neil - I look forward to reading your forthcoming reviews :)

Until then, could you describe roughly how you think an extensively modded Techy, fitted with a top-notch arm, cartridge, and one of the better off-board PSUs, compares to your SME20?

No need to go into lots of detail - simply offer us a snaphot of what you've heard so far.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Nice one, Neil - I look forward to reading your forthcoming reviews :)

Until then, could you describe roughly how you think an extensively modded Techy, fitted with a top-notch arm, cartridge, and one of the better off-board PSUs, compares to your SME20?

No need to go into lots of detail - simply offer us a snaphot of what you've heard so far.

Marco.

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Ahhh the punch line Marco.

Whole point of the reviews relating to the Technics is to establish not only what works with what and to test the current wisdom, but also to compare a fully modded Technics against a full production deck or two.

I am sorry my friend but you will have to wait for that information as I have in all honesty not got that far, having so far spent a fair bit of time working on the former points before getting to the latter one. I have a lot less time these days to work on everything I have sitting looking done (Hi Mr Brooks that means the BH too, though I have played with it on the Technics but I am not in a position to say much more than that at the moment.)

To be honest late last year I was seriously thinking of winding AIHFA up as I have found it increasingly hard to find the time (and I put lots into the reviews I do) + with only Barry now contributing regularly (thank you very much) as life issues have been eating into my free time in a major way; I have less free time to put into things as on average I spend three months with an item before writing about it. Of course some things can be written about more quickly but I don't write quick reviews as a rule and I would rather live with an item for awhile, before doing so.

However having put so much into AIHFA, to walk away now, would have been something I would have regretted for the rest of my life so I am sticking with it but the reviews will happen as and when I can do them and the items supplied to me will be reviewed in the order I get them and that means David the BH is due soon; either as a stand alone or as part of the Technics review.

Watch that space, as they say.


Regards D S D L

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

It may be easier for technophobes like you dude but not everyone is a DIY expert!

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You meant, of course, technophile :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

I am so glad you agree about the thin rubber mat as I could not post to say it's brilliant until someone agreed with me for obvious reasons! I gave a few away to my existing Oyaide mat owners and they all agreed (both of them :lol:)

Thanks for the feedback, the Oyaide thin rubber mat costs £35, mine costs £10, luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years so did not need to search for a suitable material for long!

Was wondering when you would be reviewing the blue horizon mat I gave you IN SEPTEMBER.:lol:

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I guess with Oyaide recommending its use under it you would think it a no brainer but trying it out is always the proof of the pudding.

Placing metal on metal no matter how well finished off and level would I guess always leave room for slight movement and the thin rubber layer will remove that issue + damping the metal interfaces.

In fairness to Oyaide though that £35 gets you the mat and a speed strobe disc. Its a bit weird that Black Rhodium don't seem to know about it. I have asked a couple of times..... oh well.

Ahhhh David you have let the cat out of the bag..... Marco has his dresses and you have your rubber :eyebrows: If we keep this up AOS will morph into a Fetish site :lol: .... though I guess with manys love of 1200/1210s, valve etc it already is one of sorts......



Regards D S D L

Lol.... I've seen some of the naughty things hanging up on David's washing line! :eek: :flasher:

:eyebrows: :eyebrows:

Regarding the other thing, no worries. As long as when you write the review, you mention at some point how an extensively modded Techy compares with an established 'hi-end' T/T, such as an SME 20.

Not many people own both and so are in a position to compare them directly in a system that they know inside out, and so such information deserves to be documented somewhere on the web, if for no reason other than giving the 'badge-fi' crew and industry snobs some food for thought...

So when the time comes, don't hold back and tell it EXACTLY as you hear it, without any fear of upsetting the 'establishment'. I don't want to be counting the splinters on your arse afterwards!! ;)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Lol... I've seen some of the naughty things hanging up on David's washing line! :eek: :flasher:

:eyebrows: :eyebrows:

Regarding the other thing, no worries. As long as when you write the review, you mention at some point how an extensively modded Techy compares with an established 'hi-end' T/T, such as an SME 20.

Not many people own both and so are in a position to compare them directly in a system that they know inside out, and so such information deserves to be documented somewhere on the web, if for no reason other than giving the 'badge-fi' crew and industry snobs some food for thought...

So when the time comes, don't hold back and tell it EXACTLY as you hear it, without any fear of upsetting the 'establishment'. I don't want to be counting the splinters on your arse afterwards!! ;)

Marco.

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and I reckon yours would be very interesting too Marco :scratch: :eek: :eyebrows: :lol::lol:

Yes I will Marco. One of the whole reasons for starting the Technics project was to test and find out what all you guys have been enthusing about and I have been as you pointed out doing so for nearly the last year, and an interesting journey it has been, though I am not quite at the end yet but its not too far of now....


Regards D S D L

Excellent. Btw, to nail it properly, you'll have to listen to your Techy with a better PSU than an SR3, and I don't mean one of Cawley's 'HE' efforts! ;)

You need to hear it with David/Nick's PSU, or an SR7EHD. A Funk Firm platter wouldn't go amiss either....

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Excellent. Btw, to nail it properly, you'll have to listen to your Techy with a better PSU than an SR3, and I don't mean one of Cawley's 'HE' efforts! ;)

You need to hear it with David/Nick's PSU, or an SR7EHD. A Funk Firm platter wouldn't go amiss either....

Marco.

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Well its ready now Neil so I will gladly send you one for a play! If you wait a few more days a platter too, how about that then?

My PSU is a "real world" effort, in other words it starts at a reasonable price so customers can hear the improvement over the stock PSU immediately and when funds allow or if required at purchase various up-grades can be accommodated.

Neil,

If you would like to try an SR7EHD on your Techy I would be able to send you one in February.

Regards
Paul

Nice one, Paul. Neil can send the SR3 I loaned him back to you at the same time :)

Marco.

This looks very interesting, High End Vs Techy, I'll be watching this very closely :stalks:

Hi David and Paul

Yes very keen to try those Paul and David to make the review as complete as possible. However I need a few weeks to get a few outstanding reviews out of the way and published. Timing great for Paul's offer and is that ok with you David?

Unless Arthur would be prepared to loan me a platter Marco I doubt that reviewing it will be possible as I have spent about as much money as I can on this at the minute.

Oh yes and to be fair to everyone if a Timestep HE is offered for me to include in the review, then I am more than happy to do that in the interests of making this as complete a review as possible


Regards D S D L

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Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L

in the interests of making this as complete a review as possible

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As an impartial observer/potential purchaser (one day, maybe!) and knowing your fairness and "no nonsense" reviewing style, a full review of all the options would be fabulous Neil, and essential reading for anyone thinking of treading the Techie path. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

I am so glad you agree about the thin rubber mat as I could not post to say it's brilliant until someone agreed with me for obvious reasons! I gave a few away to my existing Oyaide mat owners and they all agreed (both of them :lol:)

Thanks for the feedback, the Oyaide thin rubber mat costs £35, mine costs £10, luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years so did not need to search for a suitable material for long!

Was wondering when you would be reviewing the blue horizon mat I gave you IN SEPTEMBER.:lol:

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Do you have some details of your thin rubber mat. I'd be interested in trying it under my Blue Horizon on the SP-10.

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Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L

Hi David and Paul

Yes very keen to try those Paul and David to make the review as complete as possible. However I need a few weeks to get a few outstanding reviews out of the way and published. Timing great for Paul's offer and is that ok with you David?

Unless Arthur would be prepared to loan me a platter Marco I doubt that reviewing it will be possible as I have spent about as much money as I can on this at the minute.

Oh yes and to be fair to everyone if a Timestep HE is offered for me to include in the review, then I am more than happy to do that in the interests of making this as complete a review as possible


Regards D S D L

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if you hold your horses i'm more than happy to lend you mine. I'll be selling it when I get my new power supply from Paul H. Tell me what you think?

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Originally Posted by REXTON

if you hold your horses i'm more than happy to lend you mine. I'll be selling it when I get my new power supply from Paul H. Tell me what you think?

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Thank you for the offer Andrew.


Regards D S D L

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

I am so glad you agree about the thin rubber mat as I could not post to say it's brilliant until someone agreed with me for obvious reasons! I gave a few away to my existing Oyaide mat owners and they all agreed (both of them :lol:)

Thanks for the feedback, the Oyaide thin rubber mat costs £35, mine costs £10, luckily I have worked in rubber and plastics for 20 years so did not need to search for a suitable material for long!

Was wondering when you would be reviewing the blue horizon mat I gave you IN SEPTEMBER.:lol:

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oh l am out of the loop:ner:

andy
at least you got a discount on your oyaide rubber mat !

Tee hee.

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

andy
at least you got a discount on your oyaide rubber mat !

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Speaking of discount david can i ask how much your plastic platter is set to be as I cannot accept £600 for one?

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Originally Posted by Darren

Speaking of discount david can i ask how much your plastic platter is set to be as I cannot accept £600 for one?

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I have produced 2 versions as I am a realist and understand some people do not want to spend £700 on a power supply or £600 on a platter, one version is made from polyacetal with no added parts and the other one is the same base material but with brass inserts for extra mass.

I expect both to be well under the price of other platters. :)

That's excellent news, as choice is always good! :)

It now means that people, who aren't willing or able to buy an MN or Funk platter, will be able to hear the benefits of upgrading from the (rather nasty) stock platter, which is all good news for people going down the modded Techy route and giving the whole process more exposure :clap:

Marco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

I have produced 2 versions as I am a realist and understand some people do not want to spend £700 on a power supply or £600 on a platter, one version is made from polyacetal with no added parts and the other one is the same base material but with brass inserts for extra mass.

I expect both to be well under the price of other platters. :)

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Piccies!:)

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Originally Posted by Marco

That's excellent news, as choice is always good! :)

It now means that people, who aren't willing or able to buy an MN or Funk platter, will be able to hear the benefits of upgrading from the (rather nasty) stock platter, which is all good news for people going down the modded Techy route and giving the whole process more exposure :clap:

Marco.

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I wish you wouldn't say that Marco as i don't agree ! Its a serious bit of engineering and a lot of effort went into the design of the platter , yes it rings but it can be fixed with the vantage mod which is still the cheapest option out there ! Even the Oyaide , maybe the Funk and MN platters are fantastic upgrades but also a hell of a lot of money !

I actually feel you don't need to spend quite so much to get the best out of the 1200 series , this is debatable and i could be wrong but one thing i am certain of is that there are folks who don't like the SL1200 and never will ! No matter what money you throw at it , bit like the LP12 and Marmite yum yum :)

burn him.....