I'm completely bonkers and I love it. No not being bonkers, well actually I do like being as mad as a brush, but I meant to say I love AOS!!!
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I'm completely bonkers and I love it. No not being bonkers, well actually I do like being as mad as a brush, but I meant to say I love AOS!!!
You're off yer nut, boy, but you fit in just nicely :eyebrows:
Our latest new member seems to like it, too:
What I'm noticing a lot is people lurking for a while, checking us out thoroughly, and then joining and taking part. If we didn't pass the 'test' they wouldn't join. That for me, despite all its 'faults', is the sign of a successful, and growing, forum :)Quote:
I have been enjoying reading the threads here at TAOS for quite a while, and I think it would be only proper to say hello and introduce myself. My name is Dag and I live in a small town a few miles north of Oslo, Norway.
I wish to thank you for a great forum, and thanks to everybody who has been contributing to the highly interresing "Mod your Beresford 7520" Thread.
Marco.
Hi Darren. I thought I'd post my thoughts. I now have the role of 'Administrator' but I wasn't here at the start. I'm actually member #320. AOS is, with the exception of occasional posts on the Vintage Radio Restoration forum, the only audio forum I've really spent any time in. I joined back in May last year because I liked the vibe here. I was made to feel immediately welcome, despite having no hi-fi credentials, just a mad passion for tape, reels and cassette. I've seen that immediate welcome gievn to many other new members time and again here. I have no agenda when I say I really don't get the characterisation of AOS being something from The Whicker Man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrenw
There are regulars here. I think you'll find that in most communities and forums. The membership and active users are self-selecting - just like on the first few weeks of school, though, members have to make an effort to get involved - to post - but AOS really is the kind of place where you will be given the space to settle. No-ones going to rip into you for liking the wrong kind of music, or listening to it on the wrong kind of kit. I feel that there is a real culture of doing right by others here. The only time that hackles get raised is when there's a whiff of trolling (argumentative behaviour designed to wind someone up)...
We'd love this place to be a bigger force on the hi-fi scene, but none of us on the team would consider selling out to a suburban homogeneity to do so. AOS is a great community. It rejects a lot of the bullshit posturing, willy waving and confrontational rhetoric that seems common elsewhere on hi-fi forums. AOS wouldn't be AOS without being different, and part of that difference is it's more village-type atomosphere. We use our own names, we have the courtesy of remembering to use them whenever we can. It's less like a web forum and more like an old-school club. So be it.Quote:
if you are serious about making this place a bigger force on the hifi scene then you do perhaps need to engage in some honest appraisal of how it all works and how to get new members to start posting - think deep south inbreeding - you may end up with crooked green teeth!
We're getting loads of new members through the door, internationally and locally, and they're posting, so I hardly think our village is the village of the damned.
I don't help run this forum for a living. I do it because I think it's a great place to talk about music and hi-fi. The same goes for Steve, Marco and the rest of the Mods. No-one's trying to 'direct' the discussion; any more than Chris Grand Wazoo, Dave DSJR, Barry.d.Hunt, Steve Aquapiranha, MartinT, Brian Labarum, Dave&Sue - or any of our other regular posters - do.Quote:
take a look at any thread on here and you will see the management team take up a goodly percentage of the posts and usually end up directing the direction of the thread in some way
The Social Clubs thing just didn't work out. The software upgrade in Feb made them so difficult to find and check that they've never been used since. When I get the chance I'll be shutting them down cleanly. I think it's far better that we - the members - make the main forum as interesting as possible, and diverting energy into the Social Groups detracts from that. The reason why they've not been closed down earlier, is because they're the bit of the forum that is user controlled. I felt reticent for a long while about closing down something that allowed members to set up their own groups. If future versions of the v-Bulletin software make it easier to make Social Groups work we might try it again but for now I agree; best left.Quote:
not looking to criticis but as you asked I thought it only fair to respond - having been here a month or so now I am sure its got too many rooms and the titles are difficult - what are the social clubs about for instance - why have em if they are not working?
So what would you suggest in terms of tweaks?Quote:
I think I have been here long enough now to know this post will be rationalised away as the others seem to have but I chuck it in as a last ditch effort to get you guys to relook at the AOS and think about a change or at least tweak of direction.
I see your points above, but the keys points seem to be:
- regulars crowded round the dartboard had a say in most things and didnt encourage others to contribute
- get new members to start posting - think deep south inbreeding
- the management team take up a goodly percentage of the posts
- too many rooms, and the titles are difficult
I'm not rationalising them away but the first two points make no sense given the number of new members through the doors and the way new members are getting involved and treated. The third assumes that the admin team shouldn't enjoy contributing to the forum, like other members.
Your fourth has been made before. I'm personally not sure it would change the forum significantly to rationalise a couple of the lesser used rooms, but the subtitles of the forums (ie. Private Exhibitions Advertise equipment and accessories for sale. Non-trade ads only) does help clarify their contents.
This has been a longer note than I had intended. I sure don't want you to think that we don't give the comments raised here due consideration...
Darren,
Don't be discouraged by not being a regular - we all started like that! I remember when Beechy first appeared & now he's management! You only become a regular (if that's what you want from a forum) by getting stuck in & posting.
I actually hate fora, but this one is different & it's the only one I ever pay any attention to. I just can't stand the problems caused by the point scoring crap spouted on so many other examples of the type. As far as I know, I've been involved in perhaps the two biggest bust ups on here but I'm still here posting almost every day.
The answer to the perception of there being too many rooms is to read the sub-title which explains exactly whats in each room.
If you post, you will be treated as a real human being and an equal, no matter what your taste in music or hi-fi, who you are, or the value or type of your gear.
Cheers
This is the hardest bit to explain, but I'll give it a go. AOS does have a mindset, and there is nothing wrong with that because it is a mindset developed from huge enthusiasm and passion. It is also a mindset being established by forceful presenters. It is easy to be swept along and opposing arguments are challenged very forcefully, as is any opposition to the basis of the mindset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrenw
The problem is one of perception because the force of the argument can make people think that there is a form of dictatorship going on. Actually, I just think it is strongly held and strongly defended beliefs and opinions which reflect the current state of play for key members here. For example, someone saying that Tannoy speakers are rubbish, flat, grey bits of cardboard would be in for a very rough ride! The interesting thing is that the discussions would probably make more sense and be less dramatic/threatening in real life.
So, I suppose I am saying that the limitations of the internet are causing problems of perception.
I'm not trying to speak for Darren here. I am speaking for myself and the understanding I have of issues Darren has raised.
Would I change anything? I'm not sure. Maybe I'll come back to this at the end.
This is interesting because it touches on a bugbear of mine that I do not feel strongly enough about yet to act upon, but now is a good time to raise it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrenw
I think there is a strong element of... I was going to say defenciveness, but it's not that, it's more an occassional blindness to other points of view/experience (I can hear the indrawn breaths already! :eyebrows: ) What I mean is that when someone raises a 'criticism' of the site, it can result in quite a heavy barrage of return criticism and occasionally descends into a rare argument of truly ugly proportions (for here, that is). There have been comments made in this part of the forum which have met with blank incomprehension, a bit of rudeness followed by a huge dollop of over-reaction. I agree with the decision to edit the thread to remove the whole sorry spectacle, but it did leave me wondering why this thread is here. Views are asked for, but then poo-poohed and destroyed very quickly. It is possible to get the impression that views might be requested but they won't be listened to.
I'm trying to hedge what I am saying and probably failing. It can be very difficult to explain what a problem might be. If the 'owners' of the site don't agree with the raised problem there is a tendancy to dismiss the issue and discredit it - turning the issue around and making it a problem with the user and not the site. This is unfortunate because it can prevent people putting forward ideas and issues. It certainly makes me think twice. I think what is happening is the same force of enthusiasm and passion that forms part of the discussion of hi fi components is also applied here. It can come across as being dismissive.
So, what to suggest? Learn some diplomacy for this particular part of the forum? Maybe. I think it is worth reflecting on the fact that just because 'you' don't see/understand/have the same problem with the site that someone else, doesn't mean it isn't a problem for someone else. It's fine if you don't want to do anything about it, but don't be so brutal in saying this.
I suspect this will raise some interesting discussion. It is not meant as an attack. I hope it comes across as the reflections of someone who does come to the site regularly, even if I don't contribute as much as others yet. I'm the quiet one sitting the corner of the pub watching people over his pint of Spitfire.
There aren't a lot of suggested improvements because I think some of the problems are just perception, and a moment's thought will make that clear. But, there is a need to be aware that forceful argument and constant promotion of a particular mindset is not always perceived in a benign way.
I would welcome responses to this rather long post as I'm not too sure I have explained myself well enough to be understand in a positive way.
I do like it here. There have been moments when I have been put off by some attitudes. But, that is the nature of this place and I am learning to understand it more. I don't mean to be discouraging. I want to be helpful, to help this rather odd but welcoming and friendly place get along and thrive.
Erm, yeah. :cool:
Bah - I can see that I'm going to become a regular just through clarifying and explaining my last post. meh!
I'm quite happy here really! I am a member of one or two other hi-fi fora. I don't post there. I post here, and like the 'village' community.
I'll hush now. I've written enough already!
Hi Peter - thanks for your comments. There's lots there and I'll read them more thoroughly tomorrow, but on this one key point... you shouldn't judge the team on the basis of that one incident - this area is for open and constructive discussion, and members should always feel free to post their ideas and suggestions, as long as it's not rude things about me!Quote:
Originally Posted by symon
I appreciate that Nick. I know that was a one off. But, it was a bad end to something that wasn't going particularly well before then.
Besides, I have no rude things to say about you (well, not until I get the Lenco back! ;):lolsign: )
Hi Darren
I am very new only having joined in Nov last year. I like the vibe here and the fact that very substantial thinking on a wide range of audio topics dwells here, both among the management team (including Admin, super mods and mods [like me]) and the regular and less regular membership.
The Art of Sound is a forum with depth unlike many/most others, and one in which those behind the scenes try to be active daily to help create discussion, diseminate information and encourage the members in their audio journeys and encourage them in their postings here. My particular title is Genius Facilitator mod.... I concentrate mainly on the Strokes of Genius section and since being promoted to full mod (recently)the main audio sections of the forum are areas of responsibility too (however SOG is my first love). The main reason I picked the name/title I have, is that I wanted to involve members in writing more in depth items for Strokes of Genius( to facilitate its growth) and other sections of the forum. If I spot anything interesting I will ask the member who interests me (it could be a product or an expertise in a subject I feel should be shared) to write a review. I commission items and encourage members to do the best they can. I could post examples here but to be honest I am just back from a trip to Scotland and I am a bit tired but Barry D Hunt and Grand Wazoo have both been asked recently by me to write items (both brilliantly)....I have also asked many others too, but in their own time their work will be forth coming. I will ask by PM or in the post that takes my interest.
I didn't want SOG to be my sole vehicle for writing reviews (no hogging or dictatorship) so I ask others to take part regularly(and I have noticed other members taking on that role too recently). However its up to them if they do or not (I am not a bully)..so far most have...Thank you those who have.
So Darren I struggle to see that AOS is a dictatorship:confused:...I don't think it is.
Regards D S D L
I will stick my neck out here and question this. This is probably the biggest area I would like to see done better. Views are requested but they are not always received well. The impression I have is that they are dealt with in a bad way. I would hope that ideas could be received in a more positive way, even if they will not be acted on. I'm finding this difficult to explain and it's coming across as much more confrontational than I had hoped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechwoods
this is a good place and I want it to be as good as it can be.
I would just like to add my two penn'orth again. Peter's post says very elegantly what I also think but could not express. Reading Peter's posting helped to crystalise my thoughts and I found myself agreeing with him more and more, the more I read. There is, I feel, an unintentional feeling of "this is our forum and it's not up for change - if you don't like it, move on somewhere else". Many of the regular guys on here could be described as MILDLY weird, eccentric and dogmatic in their perception of the 'true light' as they see it. I feel that SOMETIMES passionately held beliefs come across as the only 'true light' and, in turn, this may make anyone with differing views, particularly newbies or lurkers, feel in a minority and therefore unwelcome.
It's a difficult line to draw between passing on beliefs (aka knowledge) to people with no knowledge of the subject but eager to learn and over-emphasising your beliefs to people who legitimately hold different beliefs. In short maybe we need to make it more obvious that contrary opinions are very welcome - remember that we are discussing an art here, not a science, there is no one right answer. All that really matters is that people with contrary opinions can justify those opinions to themselves and be given the opportunity to persuade other people to come round to, or at least seriously consider, their point of view. Debate is good, argument is bad.
Here endeth today's lesson.:)
Cheers,
Hi Peter,Quote:
I will stick my neck out here and question this. This is probably the biggest area I would like to see done better. Views are requested but they are not always received well. The impression I have is that they are dealt with in a bad way.
I'll get to your main post later (probably tomorrow), but regarding the above, aside from the Rob/Waz incident, could you highlight another time when constructive criticism offered has in your opinion been dealt with in a bad way?
This is a learning curve for us all, so I'm just trying to get a better handle on your thoughts so we can do something to improve the situation :)
Cheers!
Marco.
Don't worry! You're not coming over as confrontational, I know the spirit in which you're posting :) Sometimes the effect of posts here aren't immediate... sometimes they set balls rolling, and changes come later; but the one thing you can guarantee is that the response will be honest. This area doesn't just get ignored!
Thanks Nick. The highlighted bit is very important and I think underscores the great thing about this forum. Sadly, it is probably also the thing that causes dissent and discomfort as well. Such is life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechwoods
Hehe - I knew someone would ask that. I wwill dig through and see if I can find the posts that led me to think this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I have a pleasant fear that my impression will be dismissed through doing so. But, I'll try and find the things that can be seen in different lights.
I think a lot of what you perceive stems from 2 things.
1) Some regulars getting on well with each other & being able to judge what they can & what they can't say to each other.
2) The main problem with any internet forum - many things are typed in haste & not thoroughly thought through or explained adequately enough to get the point across. Sometimes, a late, but well judged response is worth 10 snappy off-the-cuff posts.
Some folks have a forceful way of putting things, others are more subtle - if you disagree with something that's said, or how it's said, then say so.
However, your opinion will always be valued and treated as valid.
Hi Peter,
Thanks. One quick thing I would like to pick up on is this notion that things are ever "dismissed", "rationalised", "pooh-poohed", or anything else suggesting that admin inconsiderately 'bin' people's comments, just because they don't agree with them.
Or as Dave implied:
Where you got that from, mate, I've no idea :confused:Quote:
this is our forum and it's not up for change - if you don't like it, move on somewhere else.
Rest assured that every point raised here is carefully considered and acted upon if necessary. The "if necessary" part is the hardest bit to judge, because people's natural reaction to suggestions they've made not being implemented, or rejected, is that they've been superficially or rudely "dismissed" - that is not the case. I understand though it's hard not to feel a little aggrieved when your suggestions have seemingly been ignored.
However, the reality is simply that, after due consideration, what's been suggested was not thought to have been for the greater good of the forum as a whole, that's all. Someone has to be in charge of making the final decision, and that's admin. The fact is it's impossible to please all the people all of the time. Remember also that we have not only to consider the feelings of those expressing their opinions here, but also those of the members who are perfectly happy with things as they are :)
Marco.
Indeed. I tried to link the phrases with the word "impression". It will be interesting to revisit this thread to find what gave me that impression. It will be hard to explain because it will probably hinge on words and comments that can be viewed from different viewpoints - with each viewpoint shading and colouring the perceived intent of the comment.
I'll come back tomorrow with a more researched and reasoned response. But, it is important to note that I am talking about impressions rather. I will be honestly surprised if I find real examples of rudeness.
Sounds like a question of semantics then, Peter, which is a problem whenever the written word is the sole method of communication - forums are a prime example, and thus a potential hotbed of misinterpretation.
However, I'm intrigued, so see what you can come up with. Something must have triggered that reaction in you. I would be very surprised if it was genuine rudeness, as we simply don't allow that here.
One thing's for sure though, I'll be very curious to see what Darren makes of all this when he comes back... :)
Marco.
Na then Marco, if tha gunna quote me, quote the whole bit not just the bit that suits your point of view - naughty ! The full phrase or sentence was, " There is, I feel, an unintentional feeling of "this is our forum and it's not up for change - if you don't like it, move on somewhere else". . Note the words "untintional feeling" - on reflection perhaps my thoughts would have been better expressed as "unintended feeling". The feeling I was referring to is the perception that newbies and lurkers may get from reading some of Admins' responses. I know that that is not what is intended by Admin but to someone with little or no fore knowledge of this forum that is how it sometimes can be perceived, so there !! :ner:
Cheers, (and don't take it out on my cartridge and headshell please :lolsign:).
LOL! That's a perfectly fair comment, Dave; point noted :)
I just wanted to 'zap' any notions whatsoever that admin ever thought like that!
Your cartridge and headshell are quite safe, unless of course the cat gets them... :eyebrows:
ONLY KIDDING! :lolsign:
Marco.
Hi
not quite back in circulation but had a quick read whilst working in manchester and it looks like there are a couple at least that feel some common ground with my perspective - equally the mod team seem to have their heckles up and in rationalisation mode - in a fairly discreet area of the forum we have found 3 or 4 suggesting changes but still you tell us why we are wrong, how we don;t get it or how we don;t understand - its classic stuff!
I don't agree that I don;t get AOS - I think I just saw, and was confused by, a gap between your stated aim (I recall Marco you said you wanna grow up past 1000 members and get on a par with the likes of PFM and wigwam who had the advantage of an early start) and your actions
your actions to me are one of "join us if you are like us and happy with the way things are" - nothing wrong with this (indeed if I had a forum I would be exactly the same) but its not likely to result in a large forum cos it intimidates and restricts potential membership
my latest thoughts are its a bit like new labour on here - controlling and nanny state cos it thinks it knows best, most of the time not realising its doing it and the impact of its actions is totally at odds with its intended outcomes
my day job is advising people on how to improve their business and I offered what I thought was a constructive observation based on (what I understood to be) the desire to get grow the forum being at odds with the way you guys are conducting yourselves
if now you are clearly stating "we are what we are - like it or lump it" then I withdraw all my comments as they are wholly based on an incorrect assumption that you wanted a diverse, thriving community as opposed to a discreet gentlemans club with tightly defined rules and a very strong culture
I agree its unintentional - on the surface you are all very helpful and knowledgeable and encourage folks to post and get involved
Rgds
darren
Darren,
I think there is an element of us wanting both to expand and to retain a certain distinctive and subjectivist flavour.
I'd like these two aims to be in conflict as little as possible :eek:. By the same token I really don't want this place to become just like any other (hi-fi/music) forum. Inter as wells as intra-forum diversity is of utmost importance so some of the strong cultural element needs to remain.
Where there are conflicts of interests arising then balance and compromise will prevail to ensure progress.
I hate what New Labour does more than most and I'd hate to think we were anything like them. I do believe that this misconception is borne out of a number of visitors and contributors failing to grasp the fact that the mod/admin team play dual roles of contributors and moderators. The two roles are not played out simultaneously and no viewpoint made by any member of the team is the editorial line of AOS unless this is expressly stated.Quote:
my latest thoughts are its a bit like new labour on here - controlling and nanny state cos it thinks it knows best, most of the time not realising its doing it and the impact of its actions is totally at odds with its intended outcomes
You are free to disagree with the mod/admin team and say so. There is a big difference between offering an alternative view based on differing experience on the one hand and trolling on the other, the definition of which is playing devil's advocacy just to get a rise out of people.
Until everyone grasps this point (and even tests it) some will always see us as part of the Nulab Fascist dictatorship.
Hi Darren,Quote:
Hi
not quite back in circulation but had a quick read whilst working in manchester and it looks like there are a couple at least that feel some common ground with my perspective - equally the mod team seem to have their heckles up and in rationalisation mode - in a fairly discreet area of the forum we have found 3 or 4 suggesting changes but still you tell us why we are wrong, how we don;t get it or how we don;t understand - its classic stuff!
...if now you are clearly stating "we are what we are - like it or lump it" then I withdraw all my comments as they are wholly based on an incorrect assumption that you wanted a diverse, thriving community as opposed to a discreet gentlemans club with tightly defined rules and a very strong culture
I agree its unintentional - on the surface you are all very helpful and knowledgeable and encourage folks to post and get involved
Rgds
darren
I'm bowing out of this now because it's banging my head against a brick wall time. I'm sorry, but you are completely at odds with reality. The above in bold is nothing other than your peculiar way of looking at things. Dave and Peter are, despite a few minor issues, to my knowledge perfectly happy here, so I wouldn't include them as necessarily supporting your viewpoint.
How you arrive at this stuff goodness knows. In fact, rather than just the results of your imagination, I'd like to see some actual evidence from the main forum, in the form of direct quotes, to support your accusations above of how we are "conducting ourselves", so please provide some.
However, I'll leave other members of the team to deal with your queries on this thread mainly from now on, as we seem to be at complete odds with each other.
Marco.
Hi guys,
I hate doing this as I suspect that it will upset, but the following is a classic example of what (I believe) Darren was referring to when he said management are not open and choose to direct posts according to their viewpoint: -
"I'd like these two aims to be in conflict as little as possible . By the same token I really don't want this place to become just like any other (hi-fi/music) forum." :steam:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that statement if it was from a ordinary member but as it comes from 'Admin' it is seen as confirming the status quo and not really being open. All I can add to this is to remind you of my earlier posting re: -
if you really want this forum (child) to grow, let it go it's own way. It is no longer your child but belongs to the world at large. If you want to keep it as your 'baby', close it to new members and those who want it to develop naturally.
Sorry if this offends as I have absolutely no wish to upset anyone, particularly anyone who has had any part in creating this forum but, unless we can be open with each other rather than dance around the subject, we will continue to argue.
I shall be very sorry if this gets me excommunicated but that is how I see the situation. :(
Cheers,
I think you misunderstand what Steve was saying, Dave: that Art Of Sound should have it's own distinctive style and approach. New people are joining all the time - because they like what they see - we don't need to close the doors to maintain some cliquey museum piece.
Think about it like this. People develop an affinity with a brand because they like what it stands for. They know what it stands for and it's consistent in giving them what they have come to like. If a brand moves too far from it's roots it becomes just like it's competition - the people who liked it for what it was move away. It becomes percieved as a 'me too' brand - undifferentiated.
There's a balance to be struck between pleasing the silent majority - reflected in the number of posts we get, new members signing up, and the length of time people are active for - and those who speak up and suggest changes.
If we changed the format of the forum in response to every comment made I don't think the result would please everyone any more than the more considered approach we're taking.
Changes will happen, sure as eggs is eggs. They have before and they will again. And comments here will be taken into account.
And no-one gets 'excommunicated' for speaking their mind in Critics Corner :)
Spot on, Nick.
I can't really add to that, save to affirm to Dave that Steve's post wasn't intended in the way he interpreted it - and that there's no way would he ever be "excommunicated" over something like that :)
I do find it amazing sometimes what people think they'll get banned for here... Allow me just to reiterate:
NO-ONE WILL EVER BE BANNED FROM THIS FORUM FOR DISAGREEING WITH MEMBERS OF ADMIN IN CRITICS CORNER OR ANYWHERE ELSE.
Hopefully, that should do it :smoking:
Marco.
Hi Nick,
Thanks for the response. In my view the balance that needs to be struck is that between "we are happy with the forum as is" and "it's a lovely forum but it could be improved". I have a foot in both camps (me, sit on the fence?, never!! :) ). I was trying to 'put words in Darren's mouth' and that job is best left to Darren - he's proved perfectly capable of expressing himself in the past so I will leave him to it.
At the end of the day I guess that what matters is that the forum continues to grow and flourish. Monitoring the growth in new members each month will confirm or otherwise the 'growth' aspect - the 'flourish' aspect may be a little harder to montor, as joining the forum needs a positive input from the joiner whilst leaving the forum needs no action. By the time Admin realises that more are leaving (or just not posting or visiting ) than joining it may be too late.
As expressed earlier, I am happy with the forum but I cannot get away from the feeling that the 'parents' are determined to keep control of their 'child' whilst permitting others to benefit from being part of it. To repeat myself somewhat, excommunication not withstanding, I expect to be an active and independent minded member for the foreseeable future - I greatly enjoy my time here and while ever my 'maverick' opinions are welcome I expect to continue to do so. :)
Here endeth my final contribution to this thread (unless........)
Cheers,
Hi Nick and Marco,
Marco's posting came in whilst I was responding to Nick, so I didn't see it until I had pressed the 'Post' button.
Right, you guys, Lighten up !! My 'excommunication' comment was not a serious one - perhaps I should have put a more humourous smiley after it - sorry. If I had seriously thought that excommunication was a real possibility I would not be here now - I would have resigned rather than give you guys the pleasure of firing me !!
My sense of humour may be a little 'left of centre' and thus not all my 'humourous' comments may be seen as such. Im a dry, (some would say sarcastic), thick skinned Yorkshireman who has had a lifetime of keeping a very straight face when making the most (humourously) outrageous statement. As such I felt that I would be right at home in this forum !! :lolsign: Believe me you'll be in no doubt when I have something serious and controversial to say - in the meantime treat it as humour please - for better or for worse I plan to be around being provocative (with a slight smile on my face) for some time yet
I very nearly posted this, Dave, in response to your last post - all this talk about excommunication!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tym0MObFpTI
;)
As a newbie, in general, to posting on any forum, I completely agree with Dave's perception of AOS.
However, as someone who has been a past contenteous forum lurker, I can honestly say I do not have any problems with the admin staff or the way in which this forum is handled by the admin personnel, the moderators, or the members.
If I do not agree with the input of anyone, I have no problem dismissing their views as egotistical crap and I move on.
This does not mean I have a fear of inciting a combative discussion, it just is not why I am a member.
I am here to learn and I shall particpate as I see fit. There are entities at this site I will never communicate with directly and others I feel are people better than myself and whom deserve my attention.
I have no issues with getting around the forum, I seem to be able to move directly to the sections which interest me the most and I can review the posts of the members whom I enjoy hearing from.
I want to thank all the members for either pissing me off or placating my advanced humor.
Cheers,
Terry
This sounds a bit ominous Terry - are there people (or things) we should know about?Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryB
Any candidates in mind for the latter? ;)Quote:
There is a big difference between offering an alternative view based on differing experience on the one hand and trolling on the other, the definition of which is playing devil's advocacy just to get a rise out of people.
Incidentally, that was a rhetorical question!
Marco.
"There is a big difference between offering an alternative view based on differing experience on the one hand and trolling on the other, the definition of which is playing devil's advocacy just to get a rise out of people."
Hi guys,Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I hope that the above quote (in blue) is not aimed at me. :( I am quite happy to be provocative to elicit a response, even ocassionally to overstate the case to make a point ;) , but I am not in the business of expressing any view on any subject on this forum that I do not genuinely hold to be true. I can play Devil's Advocate if I believe the need arises but never without making it clear that that is what I am doing. I enjoy discussion and debate but I do not believe in misleading anybody just to start an argument - as I posted earlier, debate is good, argument is bad. Others may have difficulty differentiating between the two.
If the above quote is not aimed at me please feel free to ignore this post. :)
Cheers,
<Ignored> ;)
Marco.
Dave, it wasn't aimed at you. At least I don't think so. ;)
Thanks Terry. :)
Just to make it abundantly clear: NO IT MOST CERTAINLY WASN'T.Quote:
Dave, it wasn't aimed at you. At least I don't think so. ;)
:)
Marco.
must have been me then - bowing out of this thread now.
cheers guys - apologies if I caused any upset - certainly not my intention, best of luck with the development of AOS
Darren
Darren,Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrenw
I, for one, am not upset by any of your posts. You had some valid concerns and freely communicated them. That is what I perceive as the nature of this particular thread.
Besides, your posts offered an interesting distraction (got me into the "Critics Corner" for the first time).
Thanks for that Darren,
Terry
On the contrary Terry - no upset.
Hi Darren,Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryB
I for one would like to be associated with the above sentiments. :) Hope you are still monitoring, even if you have bowed out from contributing.
Cheers,
Dave.
Ok guys, now that the dust appears to have settled, I'd like to spell out a few 'home truths' as far as Critics Corner is concerned...
We're considerate enough to provide our members with a facility to air their views, so people should be grateful they've got that opportunity in the first place and that we genuinely care what our members think. The fact is, most other forums don't offer this luxury!
However, once we've listened to what people have to say, there's been reasonable discussion on the matter, and admin have made a decision, then members must have the courtesy to respect that decision and leave it at that. These endless circular arguments have to stop.
It's simply not on being downright rude, along with continually arguing, insisting on having the last word, with those in charge who pay for this site (it is not free!), and who thus provide people with the opportunity to be part of this community. In doing so, it is both discourteous and disrespectful, as it is abusing our generosity as well as our hospitality.
Quite frankly, if some people here wish to have the level of influence that they seem to think they're entitled to, then we'll gladly invoice them for a share of the running costs!!! ;)
I do hope the message hits home and that people can learn to respect the facility we're providing and use it constructively. We will always listen, but at the same time, we're under no obligation to effect change when it is considered to be detrimental to the interests of the forum as a whole. Any changes that are made must be in step with our vision for AOS and what we are working hard to achieve.
In that respect, the Social Groups area has been removed, as suggested by Darren, as it clearly wasn't working. When we feel that ideas put forward by members are of genuine benefit to the forum, they will always be implemented.
Now, on a more positive note, let's all get back to making AOS the friendly and special place that it is! :cool:
Marco.
None of us are perfect as no hi-fi system is perfect. There are always trade-offs and compromises. If the system is 99% perfect the pursuit of that last one percent could knock the whole system out of balance or throw too much detail at you at the expense of a hitherto enjoyable and involving sense of timing and coherence.
So it is with the forum. In pursuit of that last 1 percent we end up losing our identity and what brought you here in the first place. Ultimately we end up dropping to 70% of perfection as a result.
Just read through this entire thread and can't believe no-one's mentioned it.... am I really the only one who doesn't like being called a "member" ?
Other forums I'm on either let you choose your own or a have a context-related label. Admittedly, it doesn't always work, I spent quite a while as "Just a Little Girl" on one forum, but still, prefer that to being identified as the part of male anatomy most likely to cause distraction from listening to the system...
Could be interesting thinking up replacements after all... "Binatone twin cassette player" for newbies (£20, chewed the first tape I tried to play in it), for example?
Slowly make your way up to ... hmmm, I think that's where the arguments begin!
LOL! :)
Ok, two things:
1) What's your proper first name? (You should add it to your sig).
2) What would you like your title to be under 'Spod', and I'll arrange it :cool:
Marco.
As I said in my introduction thread, I really am known as "Spod". Have been since I was six. When I argue with myself I address myself as Spod. When I'm falling over drunk and trying to order myself to bed I issue orders to Spod. When I've cocked up, I ask Spod what on earth he's done. It might not be on my birth certificate, but it is my identity. I am Spod. (a name that really, really seems to annoy people that want to be unnecessarily formal .... by which I mean women!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
That's Spod. Not "Spud", which was the name on my table placing at my brother's wedding. To a woman who refuses to call me Spod. Coincidence?
And what's the point of having a forum name, then a different name in your sig? Barmy as far as I'm concerned.
As I started it, I suspect "Deaf Drunkard" would be suitable!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Because if your username is 'zlleptoil204', or somesuch, we want to feel that we're addressing a human being, not an android ;)Quote:
And what's the point of having a forum name, then a different name in your sig? Barmy as far as I'm concerned.
Spod will do though!
"Deaf Drunkard" has now been added as requested :)
Marco.
Pardon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Hic.
;)
I tell ya what Marco, we bend over backwards for some of these people...
That's Spod happy now anyway.