I would always replace old and suspect components with new ones of the same value; not necessarily 'boutique' components, but at least ones with a reasonably tight tolerance.
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I would always replace old and suspect components with new ones of the same value; not necessarily 'boutique' components, but at least ones with a reasonably tight tolerance.
Hello Shuggie,Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
How did you get or make a 16uF ClarityCap? I only see 15uF.
Did you use Vishay MKP1837 to bypas any capacitors?
Thanks,
László
15uF will be fine and within tolerance.
Hi Hugo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
I have a great tip for you. I've just got my something solid stands today and the sound is different again. I had them made for a decent price too. They fit and suit the lancasters like a glove.
You have to remove the small 5cm plinth bit it's well worth it. I ordered them from Deco Audio, great to deal with.
The sound is now more open since the center of the speaker is now at ear level. The bass is much more rock solid, although it was pretty good before.
I totally recommend these stands. I'll get some pics together when I have time too.
Cheers
Joe
Hello Joe,Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Adder
I would also be interested in these stands. WOuld it be possible to share the photos and its dimensions or a construction drawing?
I would really appreciate that.
Thanks and regards,
Thanks for your support!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
I bought a 15uF and 1uF to go in parallel. They are not bypasses, but this is something that I may look at, once I'm happy with the overall crossover configuration.Quote:
Originally Posted by vencel
I'm not going to lavish a great deal of money on these Lancaster cabinets; however I will get some elegant little tripod stands made up from strong ply. The Stillpoints Component stands don't really lift the Lancasters up enough, but it's clear that being off the floor does help. I will incorporate some OEM Stillpoints feet into the tripod stands.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Adder
I've learnt a bit recently about aperiodic vents such as those in the Lancasters - they should be resistive, not fully open, so I must try securing some thick felt over the vents. The speakers do sound truly awful with the vents completely open, so I'm hoping that they will behave like much larger cabinets if I get the resistive element right. From what I've read about aperiodic cabinet design, getting the vent right may mean that I could remove a great deal of the internal damping, replacing it with simple felt layers to control the worst internal reflections. Whatever I do, I'm keen not to carry out any surgery on the cabinets, just in case I do decide to move them on!
I would be very interested in hearing what you come up with. It makes sense that they should be resistive with the early cabs with 15" drivers as they were not ported (or shut off) and so could be a very good experiment to try a resistive baffle of some kind.
The stands cost me Ł250.. not a lot to throw at these superb speakers!
What I'm finding with mine is that the bass is making the front cloth vibrate... lol...
Yep, I'll get some photos done soon together with the dimensions.Quote:
Originally Posted by vencel
Cheers
That'd be highly appreciated :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Adder
Good idea and I hope the 15uF and 1uF capacitor will fit in the Tannoy crossover box because I would like to use the original one but to upgrade/replace the old components. I am also thinking about placing the crossover closer to the selectors because at the moment the speaker terminals are situated on the bottom of the back cover together with the crossover (which is not placed in a brown box, but in a grey). The speaker terminals are connected to the crossover with a black wire. From the crossover a rather thick white cable goes to the rotary selectors. There is another black cable that goes to the speakers. Both black cables enter/exit the crossover box on the same side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
Your plan with the Lancaster cabinets are very interesting. Is that something similar to the method what is used with the Goodmans Axiom speakers? They use some kind of special grill at the "reflex" port.
Maybe you could also try with a sponge instead of the felt material.
May I ask why do you want to stick to the Lancaster cabinets and why aren't you interested in other cabinet designs, like Lockwood Major?
Please keep us updated.
Thanks,
I am interested in other cabinet designs, including the Lockwoods, but the Lancasters are such a handy size that it seems sensible to give them their best chance to perform. My home is not large, so much bigger enclosures are not a good idea.
Regarding the crossovers, I'm not touching the Tannoy original crossovers at all - these will remain in place inside their boxes, but not connected in any way. I will have to fit some decent 4mm binding posts at the rear of each speaker, but these will just feed the completely new crossovers, which are to be built up on small plywood boards, and connected to the Monitor Gold drive units using original Tannoy 4 pin connectors (procured from eBay).
I have hopes that the Lancasters can do much better with only modest expenditure. If they don't, I will have an almost original pair of speakers in pretty much mint condition to move on.
The Tannoys in Lancs I believe can be improved no end. One thing I would do though is to ditch the original 4 pin connector.. hard wire to the driver. Doing that is totally reversible if you indeed want to sell on the speakers.
I agree - using the 4 pin connectors is a temporary convenience measure while I'm fiddling around with the crossovers. I suspect that the tweeter cabling is pretty ropey, which is another reason for hard wiring direct to the drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Adder
I was also thinking to hardwire the speakers to the crossovers but I am a bit afraid and confused about doing this, especially the tweeter, because I think their connection points are more sensitive and I am afriad to solder them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
If you say it is not a problem to desolder the old wires and to solder in new ones I think I might give it a try and solder in a good qaulity wire. Since we are talking about couple centimeres length, I would even buy a Kondo wire for it.
Or do you suggest to directly connect the tweeter part to the new crossover and totally leave out the 4 pin connector? I was planning to clean the connector. It is very comfortable and maybe I could modify them to use silver pins in it.
What or which type and brand of wire would you recommend for the tweeter and which for the woofer part?
Thanks!
Do you have any information or plan for the Lockwood Major cabinets?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
If you do have, please send me PM.
Thanks and regards,
As it happens, I may be able to measure a Lockwood Major cabinet, so please wait out for the moment.
Regarding speaker wiring, I am using Audio Note AN-D internal speaker cable, which is a relatively cheap, good quality copper cable. I shall use it on both woofer and tweeter, initially using the 4-pin plug, but when I'm happy with the crossover circuit, I'll solder the wires directly to the terminals on the drive unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
I would be interested in the dims of a lockwood as well :)
Copper is the way forward, don't go for silver
I am trying to find them for you. don't hold your breath though as Lockwood do not have the plans they have told me. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy
+1 for the Lockwood plans if thats ok.
'NOT the suited span though same distance as good as really rare. '
http://floorstandingspeakersok.co.uk...l-concentrics/
:lolsign:
Those LE1 cabinets must be huge - they are significantly taller than Marco's Lockwoods; also the two cabinets do look to be constructed differently. Much better to start fro scratch, I reckon.
Hi Hugo,
Erm, no.... My Lockwoods are 112cm (H), 72cm (W) and 46cm (D). But those (black) LE1s do look nice! :cool:Quote:
Those LE1 cabinets must be huge - they are significantly taller than Marco's Lockwoods....
From the link:
I do agree with that last sentence!Quote:
Dimensions, approx have been 111 cms high, 61 cms far-reaching as good as 44.5 cms deep. Lockwood cabinets of this distance have been deliberate to be really special as good as sought after to operate with any fifteen in.
How are things going now with your Lancasters? :)
Marco.
Maybe the photo has been stretched - they do look disconcertingly taller than yours. They do seem to be wrecks, requiring a great deal of work to be domestically acceptable and it would certainly be possible to build something better from scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I have all the new crossover bits and the Audio Note AN-D wire; and all things being well I will construct the new boards this weekend. I have chosen a nominal value of 4.5mH for the main HF section inductor - having read as much as is online about the original HF autotransformer, I wonder if it is correct, mainly since the autotransformer allows for 1.2x stepup of HF energy, which is clearly not possible unless I use the same sort of device (or the original autotransformer as Martin did in Denmark). Listening will tell, of course. I don't suppose that you have a note of what Dave used for the big HF inductor in your crossovers? Maybe there is a label on the inductor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Crossover aside, I am also going to play around with the resistive vent and the amount of internal stuffing (all reversible). Having asked around for advice, I have come to the conclusion that experimentation and listening is the key here, rather than maths.
It's too early to decide whether the Lancasters will be staying. They do some things that are wonderful, but listening to them has shown me just how wonderful the Avalons are too. Tinkering with the Tannoys is harmless fun, though!
I saw those as well but put off by the odd cabinetsQuote:
Originally Posted by Macca
May I ask what lengths did you order from this wire and where did you get them from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
Regards,
Lots of AN cable for sale here-
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/wire.html
Thanks for it. I am wondering about buying the AN LX which is the Audio Note version of Kondo KSL-SPc. I just don't know what length should I buy and if it is worth buying the more expensive LX instead of the AN-D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Probably not, bearing in mind how much copper wire is already in the drive units' coils. As for length, work out whether you want to wire both positive and ground terminals on the drive units to the crossover (recommended) or just use a single ground wire for both; also whether you're going to use the 4-pin plug or solder the wires directly to the LF and HF connections on the drive units. I bought 5m each of red and black AN-D respectively, allowing a good margin for experimentation and error.Quote:
Originally Posted by vencel
Hi All
So, it seem s like there are a couple of interested parties in building a set or restoring a set of Lockwood Majors. I also saw that advert ,and got a bit put off by the way the ad ran.Translations, no proper cab match,where were they located? Maybe they WERE OK and the matching may have been just superficial? What do you think?
Hey ,we have to break through now ,and get some definitive plans from somewhere.
'The time for hesitation's thru' la la la la la la la laaaaaa
Gotta get hold of a pair of Lockwoods from somewhere.(or the plans)
Imaginative approach needed here.
See YA
ADRIAN
I can see why the little 4-pin plug is so derided - the intermediate wires connecting the bass coil to the 4-pin chassis socket on the Monitor Gold are very thin and flimsy. Not what you really want for decent bass power and performance. Having had a good look at this, I'm more confident about soldering wires from the crossover directly to the drivers.
2 x 5m isn't cheap even from the AN-D. I still plan to try the whole thing with the original crossover and 4 pin plug. Of course I am going to change the caps in the original crossover and I might also resolder the connections and maybe to replace the wires in the crossovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
I also plan to carefully clean the 4 pin plugs and to replace the wires going to the speakers.
Of course 4 rotary switches also need to be cleaned and I will try to place the crossover little bit closer to the speakers. Currently the crossovers is my Lancasters are placed on the botto of the back panel and I have the banana plugs there as well. The signal from the banana plugs go to the crossovers on a rather lengthy cable then the signal goes in a white cable to the rotary switches (to the top part of the back panel), then the signal goes from the crossover to the speakers which are of course placed on the top part of the Lancaster cabinet.
So all in all the signal travels quite a lot inside the cabinet. I would like to make it shorter and see how does it improve the sound and to check if further improvement is needed. I am still interested in your experiment with the port.
Do you think that placing the crossover to the top part of the back cover would be a bad idea as the Gold's magnet would negatively affect the crossover parts? In some cabs I've seen the crossover was placed on the top, in some cases in the bottom.
For my experiments I am placing the crossover in the bottom of the cabinet, where it will probably remain, as shown below.Quote:
Originally Posted by vencel
http://i54.tinypic.com/23gzsb6.jpg
The Gold's magnet should not interfere with the crossover components since its magnetic field, though strong, is static. I think the bottom of the cabinet is in any case the best place for the crossover.
I know those cabs are big but the drivers are so large as to make them look way too small. I have to say if it was me I would look at building some optimum size cabs based on the driver parameters, I suspect it is the only way to get the full benefit.
The Lancaster cabinets aren't big at all, which is part of their appeal and they are easy to accommodate in a normal room. That said, you are probably right, but it's worth tinkering with the (presently covered) aperiodic vent first, in order to get a "virtual" increase in cabinet volume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
I have tried the new crossovers in the Lancasters, with limited success. There is better low end definition, but too little treble energy. My suspicions about the Monitor Golds needing the 1.2x treble lift provided by the standard autotransformer appear to be confirmed. I think that the way to go from here is to service the existing crossovers, using the ClarityCaps if they will fit. In the meantime, I'm revisiting my reference Avalons.
I just received the ClarityCaps and they measure the following:
15,56uF
15,36uF
6,98uF
6,99uF
1,017uF
1,022uF
I will not put the 1uF caps in parallel of the 15uF because I would either have:
16.382uF (15,36 + 1,022) and 16,577uF (15,56 + 1,017).
First of all I would not be really closer to the given 16uF, secondly it would be hard to place the small one in the original crossover (the big one fits in OK).
In parallel the overall capacitances would be closer to each other but I am sure that originally they were not matching that much the capacitors.
So far I will leave the resistors and the smaller caps, but I might also change the them later.
So far all new caps fit in the crossover nicely. I am open to your suggestions if I should also quickly replace the 1,5 and 3,3uF caps and the resistors.
Could you recommend any resistor brand and type?
Thanks,
If replacements for the smaller caps will fit, then it may be worth upgrading them. I would not rush to change the resistors, but if you must, then Mills wirewound resistors ( http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/mills.html ) may be worth a pop. I am leaving the original resistors in my Tannoy crossovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by vencel
Thanks for your answer. Shall I buy ClarityCaps as well instead of the 1,5 and 3,3uF caps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuggie
If only they could take back the 1uF which I will not use...
The only other option for these caps would be Bennic which is about the same price as ClarityCaps but I can buy them locally and they are a bit smaller in size.
One more question: shall I use solid silver (40 years old) wire in teflon insulation for the tweeter? I would connect the tweeter part directly with the crossover.
Thanks,
I really don't know - give it a try, and if you like it, keep it!
A quick suggestion... seeing as you have the backs off the speakers why not earth the driver? I've been thinking of doing this myself but it's only something I've heard about.. some say it has sonic improvements and some don't.
I'd stick with copper mate... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by vencel
What do you mean by earthing the drivers?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Adder
I've never seen and heard about it. Could you maybe describe it in more details?
Thanks for the suggestion. I will stick to copper with the HF unit as well.
I know that for the bass thick copper wire is suggested, but should it be solid core, multistrand or litze? What diameter (solid, multistrand or litze) is suggested for the HF unit?
For the bass finally I did not order the AN-D but I bought UPOCC Neotech 1,2mm diameter solid core copper wire. I got today the 1,5 and 3,3uF Bennic capacitors. They are much smaller than the ClarityCaps so the fit nicely in the original crossover. This way all capacitors are replaced in the crossover but the resistors are the old ones.
I hope this upgrade will improve the sound. I still have to resolder all solder points and to clean all connections (especially in the rotary switches).
mine is the same thickness for the HF and sounds superb.
Earthing speakers is very much something that is a 'try it and see'. It's (apparently) best if the whole system is earthed via a 'star' terminal and that goes straight to a copper rod buried in the ground. Russ Andrews sell the terminals but I don't like having my leg lifted as the prices there are still back in 2006... stooopidly expensive.
Here is a photo of the upgraded crossover :-)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22181492/P1040822.JPG
Combination of ClarityCaps and Bennics. If I would only use Bennic capacitors the whole thing would fit more nicely but I ordered the ClarityCaps before I realized that I can buy Bennic caps locally.
I am not sure which one is better: ClarityCap or Bennic.
This is only one crossover, I still have to do the other and I have to install the new wire as well.
Hi László,
Any chance of uploading that image through Photobucket or Imageshack, where it can then be viewed instantly and resized properly for message boards? :)
Marco.
Sure, here it is. Thanks for the suggestion, I've never used imageshack before and was wondering how could I attach a larger photo :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8906/p1040822y.jpg