Beresford Bushmaster DAC

Agreed, 3rd variant is the most attractive.

I'm still not comfortable with the icons but it's Stan's baby at the end of the day. Rockwell Italic for me too...

3rd for me too!

I'd agree with that. Good work Werner.

The only adjustment I'd make is moving the Beresford logo to the left slightly to align it with the power button.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by webby

The only adjustment I'd make is moving the Beresford logo to the left slightly to align it with the power button.

---

Agreed. I recognised that problem when reworking Werner's earlier designs and fixed it accordingly.

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/...sterFullUS.jpg

Having looked at all the different ideas, I just looked back at my Caiman, which I quite like the look of in comparison. I know others seem to think the gold is too much bling, but looking at the gold on the Caiman, it adds a feeling of warmth to the presentation. Looking at Werner's most recent submissions, I get the opposite feeling, a look that is hard, cold, even brutal. I also think the symbols feel heavy and a bit "in your face."

I prefer a very minimalist look. I really don't see the need to label the power button, nor the headphone socket. Both are self-explanitory. Watch any three year old pushing buttons to realize these simple functions are well within the grasp of anyone who would consider buying a DAC in the first place. The select button's function, being much smaller than the power button and located next to the LED's, is easily worked out as well, without the need for text or symbol. It's special functions (dimming of LED's and switching of auto mode) are really only understood after reading the user manual, anyway. The only text that is possibly needed is the numbering of the LED's, with corresponding labels printed next to sockets on the back.

The Beresford logo is fine, unless Stan feels ready to rebrand. For the Bushmaster, I prefer the non-italic, plain thin fonts, the same as the numbers, to differentiate it from the logo. Having the logo and model name both italic and of a similar or same font makes the eye uncomfortable, wondering which is the company brand and which is the model. As far as the DAC description, I'm not convinced it's needed at all, but if it is, it should be in the same plain font, only smaller than the Bushmaster, of the same size and weight as the LED labels.

Just my opinion. ... All a matter of different taste for different folks.

Hi Lee, welcome to AoS and I would strongly suggest that you leg it to the welcome area and post an introduction before the murderators arrive on the scene with their baseball bats.

Quote:

---

I prefer a very minimalist look. I really don't see the need to label the power button, nor the headphone socket. Both are self-explanitory. Watch any three year old pushing buttons to realize these simple functions are well within the grasp of anyone who would consider buying a DAC in the first place. The select button's function, being much smaller than the power button and located next to the LED's, is easily worked out as well, without the need for text or symbol. It's special functions (dimming of LED's and switching of auto mode) are really only understood after reading the user manual, anyway. The only text that is possibly needed is the numbering of the LED's, with corresponding labels printed next to sockets on the back.

---

It's one of those things that the EU regulators insist that you make clear on your equipment in case consumers get confused as to what a knob or switch is supposed to be for.

Hi Lee,

Welcome to AoS :)

Before going any further, please pop into the Welcome area and post a new thread there, introducing yourself to our members, telling us what system you use and what music you like. This procedure is now required of all members.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

I like the 3rd variant.

Touching on the design argument, I can see both sides here:

On the one hand the previous designs were basic and not very pretty but for me if they work well then the look is by the by.

On the other hand, when something looks good it automatically becomes desirable and as Werner said, the first bite is with the eye! Apple have this down to a fine art which has made hi tech very accessible to everyone and not just techies!

If you put two devices side by side and test them most people will pick the shiny pretty product over all else even if the sound from the ugly duckling was better. A good friend of mine decided a few years back that he would go out and put together a good hi-fi. The hi fi shop recommended buying all manner of expensive and very pretty cables and interconnects and gave him a case of them to trial at home. I took over a few of my own cables that although were well made did not have shiny connectors or purple sheaths and ran some double blind tests for him to decide, the tests were inconclusive and so I recommended he not shell out £70 quid for an interconnect and instead look around the budget end which is where my cables are sourced from.

Well he went back to the hi-fi shop and came back a few hundred quid lighter with a selection of the prettiest cables you ever did see...

The only issue with the Bushmaster is that my wife will know it cost more than "a couple of quid" when I remove it from the box...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

I think the font used in Bushmaster in the 3rd picture somehow reflects the look of a bushmaster. The flow, variations in thickness, and slanted appearance give a sense of identity between font and name.
Anyone agree with me?

---

I prefer Syntax Roman, though I was quite taken with the Copperplate script offered by someone earlier.

What does it look like with "Auto" above the LED lined up with the numbers and the lines grouping the inputs omitted?

I still think "24/192 DAC" is a sufficient description of the front panel, and I still think the logo would be better if it lost it ring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tizer2000uk

I like the 3rd variant.

Touching on the design argument, I can see both sides here:

On the one hand the previous designs were basic and not very pretty but for me if they work well then the look is by the by.

On the other hand, when something looks good it automatically becomes desirable and as Werner said, the first bite is with the eye! Apple have this down to a fine art which has made hi tech very accessible to everyone and not just techies!

If you put two devices side by side and test them most people will pick the shiny pretty product over all else even if the sound from the ugly duckling was better. A good friend of mine decided a few years back that he would go out and put together a good hi-fi. The hi fi shop recommended buying all manner of expensive and very pretty cables and interconnects and gave him a case of them to trial at home. I took over a few of my own cables that although were well made did not have shiny connectors or purple sheaths and ran some double blind tests for him to decide, the tests were inconclusive and so I recommended he not shell out £70 quid for an interconnect and instead look around the budget end which is where my cables are sourced from.

Well he went back to the hi-fi shop and came back a few hundred quid lighter with a selection of the prettiest cables you ever did see...

The only issue with the Bushmaster is that my wife will know it cost more than "a couple of quid" when I remove it from the box...

---

Hi Tyrone,

As far as I can see you haven't posted a Welcome thread yet, so before you go any further, please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community, telling us what system you use and what music you like, as this procedure is required of all members.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Brian,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Labarum

I was quite taken with the Copperplate script offered by someone earlier.

---

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear...t_variants.gif

Take a close look at the font samples above. On the first line, the glyphs set in “Copperplate” use widened stroke widths at their outer ends. It safely can be assumed that those tender details will not appear on the final face plate. Don’t forget the colour (40 percent black) and the size of the font, and keep in mind that it will be printed on a not exactly smooth, brushed metal surface.

The typeface sample on the third line, “Linotype Palatino”, is very suitable for magazines and books, but for the same reasons as “Copperplate” I would not suggest using it in in low-resolution, silk screen printed on a rough surface. The serifs at the outer ends of the glyphs will not reproduce and print at all, therefore destroying the typeface character and cut down the readability. Serifs on a typeface exist for a certain reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Labarum

I still think "24/192 DAC" is a sufficient description of the front panel

---

Whenever a number is given, it’s also required to clearly indicate what this number is being used for. 24 — but what? Eggs, cows, degrees, girls, bits?

It obviously can be seen that the glyphs forming the group “24/192 DAC” have all equal heights, therefore creating a uniform, massive block. Compare this to “24 bit/192 kHz DAC” on the last line, and you will clearly recognize a welcome and pleasing, vertical rhythm caused be the different glyph heights. That’s also one of the reasons why text set in mixed case can be recognized and processed much easier and faster than uppercase only text.

In most cases, the main goal of typography is readability or legibility. Next, certain printing and production related restrictions and options need to be considered. And eventually, the selected typeface needs to be in harmony with the product and able to “transport” a desired effect, a characteristic style. Pay attention to the typefaces used in advertising for medical products, cosmetic products or fashion, and you shall notice this. For example, why do you think certain script typefaces are rarely used for traffic signs or car license plates?

Graphic designer, industrial designer and typographer are professions which require a multi-year training and education, usually something between three and five years. Some of them even end with an academic degree. You see, I wouldn’t dare discussing the use of certain electronic components with a DAC’s designer, or the best way to connect pipes with a heating engineer or plumber. Of course I can tell if I like the final result of their efforts, but I do not know nearly enough about their respective special fields to doubt or discuss their desicions made, based on their training, education and experience. Instead I simply have to trust these people and assume that they exactly know what they’re doing and why they’re doing it this way, but not another.

I don’t understand why nowadays any unsuspecting layman considers himself to be an appointed expert in design and typography, just because he/she uses a PC with Microsoft Paint and a collection of a few thousands questionable fonts.

Brian, my proposals are not based on on personal preferences alone. Any graphic/industrial designer with a small rest of self-respect certainly shall not suggest to use “Copperplate” or similar fonts for the brushed metal front face of an electronic device. Doing so would be similar to a mechanic allowing you to leave his garage with only three wheels mounted on your car.

Werner.

Well he went back to the hi-fi shop and came back a few hundred quid lighter with a selection of the prettiest cables you ever did see

That sounds familiar...and she cant even cook,or iron,but can hear the grass grow,and smell strange new boxes hidden in the house no matter what the font is.:lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Werner Berghofer

Graphic designer, industrial designer and typographer are professions which require a multi-year training and education, usually something between three and five years. Some of them even end with an academic degree. You see, I wouldn’t dare discussing the use of certain components with a DAC’s designer, or the best way to connect pipes with a heating engineer or plumber.

---

Funnily enough I worked as an engineer for BASF in their graphics department and had to sit through lengthy courses in the UK and in Belgium to learn about typeface fonts etc. I had to fix RIP ( raster image processing) equipment, and got see how printing is done on different surfaces. That gave me a bit of an insight into why some fonts aren't suitable for use on one type of surface but would print fine on others. I am no expert in the subject, but I am fortunate to have a couple of qualifications and working experience of its use in an industrial environment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Werner Berghofer

Whenever a number is given, it’s also required to clearly indicate what this number is being used for. 24 — but what? Eggs, cows, degrees, girls, bits?

---

I read Physics a long time ago at one of England's better universities. It was drummed into us "No units - no marks"; but the front of a DAC is not an examination.

Good heavens man, I'm a North-Briton, a Viking of the Danelaw; but your Teutonic grip on detail is exhausting. I think everyone will know it's not 192 cows, and most of them wont care.

I accept what you say about the suitability of fonts for silk screen printing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Werner Berghofer

I don’t understand why nowadays any unsuspecting layman considers himself to be appointed to be an expert in design and typography, just because he/she uses a PC with Microsoft Paint and a collection of a few thousands questionable fonts.

---

Because innovation often springs from the minds of gifted amateurs.

Brian,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Labarum

your Teutonic grip on detail is exhausting.

---

perfection is the result of close attention for even the smallest details. And maybe from your point of view Germany and Austria are identical countries, but I can assure you though more or less the same language is spoken in both these countries, there are huge differences in regional culture and ways of living. The region in Austria where I’m located is much closer to Italy than to Germany, and Vienna is much closer to Hungary and Czechoslovakia, as it once was called, than for example to Munich or Berlin.

As far as I know, Steve Jobs was neither a teuton nor a viking, but is well-known for his “Teutonic grip on detail”, as you call it. Mercedes Benz, BMW, Miele, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Apple — does this ring a bell in your mind?

Werner.

All I want to know is when will I get mine and is it in a Tupperware box or not?

;-)

Dave,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by synsei

innovation often springs from the minds of gifted amateurs.

---

no doubt about this. But the moment these innovations need to be turned into real products, this task better is left to production specialists.

Werner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Russell Turner

All I want to know is when will I get mine and is it in a Tupperware box or not?

;-)

---

:lol:

Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged springs to mind...

p.s. Awaiting a stern telling off from the Murderators... :eyebrows:

I would have thought that to plan changes now for a future incarnation of the same model, after Stan has already started sending out units, would be rather futile. To change the visual design may be counter productive to reputation.
My own view is that the original design is great, except for some very tiny details - there is no right or wrong in this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo

I would have thought that to plan changes now for a future incarnation of the same model, after Stan has already started sending out units, would be rather futile. To change the visual design may be counter productive to reputation.
My own view is that the original design is great, except for some very tiny details - there is no right or wrong in this.

---

I think you're right. If the product is rolling out, leave it alone.

No design will please everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Russell Turner

All I want to know is when will I get mine and is it in a Tupperware box or not?

;-)

---

No, yours will come wrapped in cling film.

Lee,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by webby

The only adjustment I'd make is moving the Beresford logo to the left slightly to align it with the power button.

---

thanks a lot, point taken:

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_webby.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Labarum

I prefer Syntax Roman […] What does it look like with "Auto" above the LED lined up with the numbers and the lines grouping the inputs omitted?

---

Here you are. Please also note the “24/192 DAC” in the top right corner.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_labarum.jpg

Werner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Russell Turner

All I want to know is when will I get mine and is it in a Tupperware box or not?

;-)

---

Coming Thursday before 1PM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo

I would have thought that to plan changes now for a future incarnation of the same model, after Stan has already started sending out units, would be rather futile. To change the visual design may be counter productive to reputation.
My own view is that the original design is great, except for some very tiny details - there is no right or wrong in this.

---

There is the variable output and/or Caiman version still left to develop, so the suggested fascia changes would go nicely with the next DAC development.

Stan, hope you don't mind me mentioning it but there are a few spelling mistakes on your website that could do with correcting:
'Jittre'
'existanece'
'additinonal'
'witched' ( on the download page)
'TC-7240 line livel router'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Covenant

Stan, hope you don't mind me mentioning it but there are a few spelling mistakes on your website that could do with correcting:
'Jittre'
'existanece'
'additinonal'
'witched' ( on the download page)
'TC-7240 line livel router'

---

Well, that's not all. As I said earlier in the thread but got bumped off the page pretty quickly...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by webby

In my opinion, based on the assumption that stan would like to reach a new, wider audience (and why wouldn't he?), the homehifi and Beresford.me websites need to be addressed.

With respect to Stan, there is no continuity of design between the two sites and the products; essentially no company identity or brand identity if you like. The Beresford logo only appears on the websites on product images themselves.

Personally, I don't understand why there are two websites at all. There seems to be a conflict of design between them and this can only be confusing for the consumer.

Now would be as good a time as any (on the eve of a new product launch) to redesign or at least rethink the website along with the Bushmaster to achieve a more consistent identity for the company, and the product.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Covenant

Stan, hope you don't mind me mentioning it but there are a few spelling mistakes on your website that could do with correcting:
'Jittre'
'existanece'
'additinonal'
'witched' ( on the download page)
'TC-7240 line livel router'

---

Can you point me to the relevant pages in each case?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

Anyone agree with me?

---

Yep, the Rockwell font looks good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marco

Guys,

Can we move this discussion away from who loves who, and who doesn't want to be someone's boyfriend, and back onto the Bushmaster? Ta!

Marco.

---

What part of the above have some people failed to grasp?? And incidentally, that question is rhetorical! When I ask for something to be done, I expect it to be done!

I've just pruned this thread of a load of bullshite and insults. Now, I don't want any further response on this, other than simply everyone complying with the following warning:

If I see any further evidence of the petty squabbling which I've just removed, then the thread will be locked and some 'holidays' will be getting handed out.

All further content on this thread, therefore, MUST ONLY be in reference to the Bushmaster DAC itself. Anything else will be deleted immediately, and a week's ban handed out to whoever is responsible for the offending remarks. I do hope that I've made myself crystal clear!!!

Marco.

P.S If you consider that someone is behaving out of order, the ONLY acceptable way of dealing with the matter is to hit the 'Report Post' button, and then let a member of admin and/or a moderator deal with it. Do NOT, under any circumstances, take the matter into your own hands by retaliating towards other members with abuse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

Can you point me to the relevant pages in each case?

---

Looks like you have already dealt with most of them Stan. Just one on the Bushmaster download pages, third page under Auto Mode is says 'witched off' instead of switched off.

Sorry to be so mundane, but has anyone reviewed the headamp aspect of the Bushmaster?

I'm still using a self-modded TC-7520 and wouldn't mind an upgrade!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Covenant

Looks like you have already dealt with most of them Stan. Just one on the Bushmaster download pages, third page under Auto Mode is says 'witched off' instead of switched off.

---

Cheers Jerry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZebuTheOxen

Sorry to be so mundane, but has anyone reviewed the headamp aspect of the Bushmaster?

I'm still using a self-modded TC-7520 and wouldn't mind an upgrade!

---

Send me a PM and we can arrange for you to come and try out your headphone on a Bushmaster. I can pick you up from the tube station, where we met before. Maybe you could do the review :).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StanleyB

Send me a PM and we can arrange for you to come and try out your headphone on a Bushmaster. I can pick you up from the tube station, where we met before. Maybe you could do the review :).

---

Great service Stan. :cool:

Hope this is relevant - pinched the link from another forum: -

http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/frontdesigner.html

Now we can all be designers :lol: .
Dave.

stan,

correct me if i am wrong but i seem to remember that there may be an issue about using the bushmaster with a lightspeed pre amp. am i imagining reading a post about that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaveK

Hope this is relevant - pinched the link from another forum: -

http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/frontdesigner.html

Now we can all be designers :lol: .
Dave.

---

Dave,
Is that the software Stan spoke of earlier that he uses?
(Liking the idea of interchangeable front panels...)

Stan,

Payment sent.

I await the "chosen one" with bated breath...

Russ

Same here....

*waits for postman to knock on door

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gazjam

Dave,
Is that the software Stan spoke of earlier that he uses?
(Liking the idea of interchangeable front panels...)

---

Gaz, you of all people, (having frequent experience of what a shit (I'll resist the temptation in view of earlier comments :lol:) memory I have). are asking me that question. I don't know - my source was a today post on Rock Grotto.
Dave.

:)
Yeah think its the same software.
Looks good.

Interchangable front panels - design and manufacture yer own!
Unique feature!

We talking about the Dacs sound yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gazjam

:)
We talking about the Dacs sound yet?

---

Not till Thursday I reckon. No need to rush ;).

Like your designs Werner, but still not crazy about the font choices - especially Rockwell for 'Bushmaster'. Am I alone in this?

Graham,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamtoast

still not crazy about the font choices

---

if I’m right the majority sems to like the “Rockwell” variant. Font choice is a very subjective matter; I guess it’s impossible to design something which is pleasing to everyone. Ultimately this decision needs to be made by Stan; he also seems to favor the “Rockwell” typeface (see → here).

Werner.

Just a few final thoughts on the front panel design.

Now that the inputs are labeled 1,2,3,4 I'm not sure that the Optical and Coaxial symbols are still required cluttering up the front panel. They're not well known and are somewhat superfluous on the front panel.

I prefer the 24bit/192kHz to just 24/192. It's probably my Maths/Physics background but specs or measurements without units just seem incomplete and amateurish to me.

Minor cosmetic points though as the latest designs would all look great on the product.
I'm looking forward to some feedback on the sonic performance in the near future.

Good luck! - Joe's left the building.

Martin,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by howlindawg

I'm not sure that the Optical and Coaxial symbols are still required cluttering up the front panel. They're not well known and are somewhat superfluous on the front panel.

---

I agree. This was also my impression the moment I saw the Schiit Bifrost’s front plate for the first time, and I was a little puzzled. But a few minutes later I started to like these icons, maybe also because they’re quite unique and gave me the feeling that I had purchased something special.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear..._faceplate.jpg

[Close-up of the Bifrost DAC. Diameter of the input select button: 12 mm]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by howlindawg

I prefer the 24bit/192kHz to just 24/192 […] specs or measurements without units just seem incomplete and amateurish to me.

---

Could not agree more. Unlike you I have no background in maths or physics, quite to the contrary.

Werner.