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Great system Gary, I also tried digital room correction using Lyngdorf Room Perfect and although some albums were blow away, mainly simply mixed, jazz and vocal other albums were truly horrible !Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Letting it do its own calibration rarely works out well. What the mic 'hears' isn't what we hear, at least above the transition point. Like using a flamethrower to take the top off a pint of milk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush2112
On the subject of plants I took a big one out of a corner, was surprised to discover how much damping of flutter echo it had been doing.
I heard the effect of a DSP system at a mates house and it was horrible. The loss of bass from his speakers was dramatic. I would prefer too much bass rather than too little.
I think the best room correction is application and implementation of room acoustic material rather than digital processing.
I use a combination of the two, but I only apply a very small amount of DSP over a very narrow bandwidth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Sounds to me like your mate was not doing it properly. This business of using some crappy mic supplied with the unit, sticking it roughly in the listening position, and then letting the computer do all the calibration is unlikely to give the best results. Of course it's quick and easy and so seems like a good idea.
At best it gives a starting point but then you have to go old school and tweak by ear.
My mate had a built in system and he just let it do its thing.:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
This is why DSP gets a bad rap. Used properly it can fix otherwise intractable speaker/room problems and transform the overall sound quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Yes, I imagine the way to go would be for the DSP to give you a 'flat' response, then you adjust from there to suit your tastes. I've heard a variety of set ups employing DSP and always been impressed. I bet most people would find 'flat' deathly boring, but the means to cut this, boost that incrementally appeals to me.
I'd be using it myself, just as soon as I can
(a) buy what's needed
(b) find someone with the time, knowledge and patience to help me set it up :doh:
Flat response in room usually sounds way too toppy.
But if you have a room node at say 80Hz and your speakers have a port that is tuned to 80hz - boom, boom shake the room. With DSP you can cut at 80Hz and leave the rest untouched, solving the problem.
There's really no way to do that with passive treatment and analogue EQ is too crude.
DSP...
I'll go with analogue over digital and stick with the plants!
Just one more thing to faff about with and get in the way of enjoying the music.
Had similar issues to what’s been reported when I tried it in my own room, so not for me.
Luckily, no big speaker/room problems to dial out here.
Yup,Quote:
Originally Posted by AJSki2fly
The big Meridian just sits there quietly, doing its thing Adrian.
Hardly even gets warm at picture rattling volumes, mega redundancy, it’s a good power amp.
I biwire with it, and a recent swap out to Duelund 10 gauge cable for the bass, from 16 gauge helped it step up a notch, impedance down I guess with beefier cable.
Sounds more “fruity” and less dry as a pal recently said. :)
(The Science bit plays this out)
Dispertion I reckon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Less forward facing conflicting sound waves anyway
'Diffusion' with a bit of HF absorption too I think. A big pot full of soil might absorb some lower frequencies maybe.
Sounds good to me https://media1.giphy.com/media/Fu3Oj...uLY3/giphy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Incoming...
i2s CD Transport/Streamer
Shanling ET3
https://en.shanling.com/article-IntroET3.html
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...293-jpg.36667/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=...AAAAAdAAAAABAEhttps://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=...AAAAAdAAAAABAE
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...294-jpg.36668/
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...295-jpg.36669/
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...src-jpg.36693/
https://darko.audio/wp-content/uploa...ing-ET3-2.webp
Darko likes it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=96JFEBc0xjY
Currently using my modded Oppo 203 as CD Transport and streamer, the comparison with this should be interesting.
The Oppo is a great digital audio "Swiss army knife", and ticks a lot of boxes really, REALLY well, but I've always prefered the idea of dedicated tools for a particular task?
Right tool for the right job.
Bluray player for movies, CD player for music.
The Oppo's laser for instance, has to play CD, DVD, Blu ray DVD Audio, SACD, Kodak Picture CD, Video CD, whereas the Shanling is optimised for Redbook CD playback only.
Turns out the Sanyo HD850 laser mechanism in the Shanling is used in Macintosh, Unison Research, Simaudio and Lyngdorf CD players, as well as the Project RS2T which was my previous go-to, even at 2K+
Also,
it's Philips SAA7824 Transport was good enough for this valve based Luxman CD player,
https://www.hifinews.com/content/lux...38u-%C2%A32395
so...
https://scontent.fgla3-2.fna.fbcdn.n...cA&oe=66F1F824
... more than "good enough" on both fronts I reckon.
As always though, all about the implementation.
Happily the reviews of this thing are good, up there (and bettering) Jays Audio transports.
:thumbsup:
Aside playing CDs, most of my digital audio nowadays is done over my AppleTV, (Apple Music, YouTube, Netflix and the like) and handily the Shanling has Airplay (and it’s Airplay1 not 2, which is native lossless audio) so all things streaming are now no longer limited to what AppleTVs hardware limitation over HDMI puts out.
Potentially better Redbook CD output too into my Dac over i2s, at native resolution, or 16/44 CD upscaled to DSD 512 into my Dac.
Also,
an i2s Roon endpoint once they get Certification for it, theres currently a "hack" using iFi Audio’s app iFi Bridge for Roon, so will explore that.
Will compare Roon sound quality from the Oppo vs the Shanling.
Digitals still developing, and this bit of gear got my attention.
Early adopter of forward looking digital (First Squeezebox enjoyer!) and just like that first Squeezebox, this half width black box gives me the Fizz.
Shanling actively update the firmware for this, and have an active presence on Hifi forums offering support.
They stand by this product, and this, along with seeing the smart design decisions done behind the scenes helped in my buying decision.
Sounds daft, but to me it has an old school Naim half width box vibe too, which I really like. :thumbsup:
Top loading Transport as well,
so no rattly plastic tray or scratchy slot loader to deal with.
Suspect a dedicated i2s CD Transport will better the Oppo 203 for playing CDs, can upscale too, so looking forward to seeing what that brings to the table.
Im enjoying playing CDs again, had the audiolab 6000 and which was bettered by further mods on my Oppo 203, but hoping this is better again.
Ticks all the digital spec boxes, into my dac over i2s, hoping CDs should sound good.
The top loading "hands on" approach to it appeals to me too, a "digital turntable" sort of thing?
The black glass lid reminds me of the Rega Planar platters so another nod there.
Always fancied a top loading CD player since seeing the original Rega Planet back in the day?
Funny how this stuff all works.
Something else that's cool is it's USB input, which can read SACD ISO images, and play them back at full res DSD over its i2s output.
Have 100ish SACD rips in *.ISO format (disc image) - my Oppo lost the ability to play those a few firmware updates back.
So great to be able to enjoy my favourite SACD albums again, will pick up a 1TB USB stick and put my SACD ISOs on it.
Much more than just a CD Transport, and from researching it over on American forums, even just as a Transport folks have preferred it over the Jay's Audio and Shitt transports at substantially higer cost.
So great bang for buck.
Will it better my modded Oppo for playing CDs?
Shall see.
Having the controls on top is a good idea.
That looks like a nice bit of kit mate. Hope it fits the bill. Hopefully I'll get over soon to give it a listen :)
Looks nice mate, hopefully does the business. I like the top loading thing too on my Lector, wee magnetic puck for holding the disc in place.
These get good reviews so will be interested in your assessment of it Gary.:thumbsup:
Posties been :)
https://i.imgur.com/4V86Xx6.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/HwYHFO4.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/4s78nr8.jpeg
Reads CDs quickly and is completely silent, feels really well built.
Packaging great, came double boxed and wrapped in a cloth bag with great documentation, reminded me of the Oppo.
Small details taken care of always an encouraging sign.
Feels solid weighty and high end, I'm happy with this.
No idea about sound yet, playing a few CDs to let it warm up, sound quality comes later.
Have a really good Morrow digital AES cable, compare that to i2s connection in a wee bit.
Exciting!
Yeah!Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Looks good mate!
Incoming...
Heh :)
Not quite that big a bang, in fact won't change the sound quality at all...
Very very cool tho,
Definitely adds to the system.
https://i.imgur.com/d8FwNNQ.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/qDN7Ro9.jpeg
https://imgur.com/a/y8EAMSL
https://youtu.be/lHkVXyTIhmU?si=390el6gj5oOpRG5I
This thing is very cool, real electromechanical meters, work in real time with no lag.
Can run it as a 4 way switch box, but not interested in that, only its BIG VU’s and inbuilt microphone.
Can adjust both the microphone gain and the meter delay, so have it tweaked ‘just so’.
Company used to do McIntosh blue meters which I wanted, but their sales guy said they received a cease n desist letter from their Lawyers a couple of years back :eek:
Damn,
would have loved one of those, most of the other kit has blue LEDs.
Ah well.
Sitting with the tunes on, definately adds something I love it.
Don’t like the 4 pushbuttons along the top, will get some black cap covers for those as it takes the look away a bit.
Can’t beat a nice VU meter!
Probably easy enough to change the lights to blue mate.
What is the point of it? I would find the flickering meters, regardless of the colour of their backlighting, highly distracting.
But each to their own - enjoy!
Very cool!
Many people say...
It's been scientifically proven by men in white coats, that VU meters are known to make the music sound better.
:D
Bought purey just for the vibe,
Same meters as I had on my old Marantz tape deck when I was a kid, kinda going full circle.
Long listening session last night, enjoyed the warm fuzzzies.
Just spotted this
http://image.pushauction.com/0/0/a0e...6d276d35a9.jpg
Yup,
Very groovy Alan
It's ace.
I'd rather spend the money on 8 CDs. ;)
I'd just get them too.
Same
Have to say,
Really enjoying the VU bouncing meters again, brings something extra to the listening session.
Call it nostalgia or whatever, it doesn't affect sound quality, but brings a warm Vibe.
Happy with this.
I think it looks great, and imo a visual 'connection' to what is happening, in a similar way to watching the platter going round :)
Yeah,
I’d go with that Steve.
The “visual connection” to the music definitely adds something.
Having big VU’s ticking away in the background listening to music kinda adds a recording studio vibe too, which I like.
Funny how the mind works!
Guess it’s similar to putting framed Album Art or music related posters up in the listening room, just adds a connection to the music your listening to?
I’d been using the VU Units inbuilt microphone to pick up the sound and get the meters working?
My preamp has the choice of XLR or RCA line level outputs to Power amp.
I run the system fully balanced so it’s connected to my power amp over XLR, never really thought about it much after plumbing it in when I first got it.
After a bit of forum rummaging turns out I can use both outputs at the same time, many PS Audio peeps use the rca outputs to feed their subwoofer.
So I connected the preamp Rca outputs directly to the VU Meter unit, and now have more accurate left/right levels.
Think the unit must have a single mono mic built in?
This is better, meters are a lot more accurate and now track individual left/right stuff in the mix :thumbsup:
Cool.
Today's schennanigans
https://i.imgur.com/gRgfIju.jpeg
Run my speakers biwired to my power amp, which has 2 sets of speaker outs.
I use Duelund tinned copper in cotton and oil, best cable I've had in my system I'm a big fan.
For bass duty I recently swapped out to their thickest 10 gague cable, a nice improvement over the (very) expensive cable I had in before.
At £18.50 a metre it's a bargain in comparison, and is better.... go figure.
Was using the thinner Duelund 16 gague for mid and treble, thinking keeping the same type and brand of cable was the way to go?
But,
As the thicker 10Ga cable was bedding in it became obvious the two different cables DIDNT quite have the same sound charactaristics...
The Delund cable is all about big soundstage, integration top to bottom and 'realism' in its sound.
Mixing the 2 cable types in biwiring was messing with that, the mid and top end standing out as seperate more than I'd like...
So I picked up some more of the same 10 gague cable, for the mid and treble.
Aside the thicker 10 gague cable just sounding better than the 16, all cable feeding the speakers will be the same, so hoping for more of that Duelund natural 'integrated sound' that I like so much.
Sold a cable on Ebay which paid for the cable, so happy days. :)
Update on the new CD Transport, a Shanling ET3.
Wanted to put some time on it before posting anything about its sound.
Owned an ET3 for a few months now, a noticable upgrade over my modded Audiolab 6000CDT, which sounded better than stock model.
Did additional and similar mods to my Oppo 203 (EMI/RF treatment and case damping) and the Oppo improved on the Audiolab again.
Thinking the Oppo was my "last disc spinner"?
But got curious about the ET3
Heard abouts its i2s output (Big thing for my PS Audio dac), on board upsampling, USB input, can be used as a Server and its half width form factor.
Controls on the top are a smart choice too.
Took a punt on one and after a bit of running in and trying out different approaches to isolation, its sounding better across the board than both. :thumbsup:
https://i.imgur.com/R1M3Yre.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/XhoK79h.jpeg
From stick on rubber feet to all this malarkey!
Worth it though... including the specific ceramic ball bearngs (Thanks Naim Forum and Fraim for the spark of an idea to hear that different types make a difference, especially on a glass rack. BIG difference)
https://i.imgur.com/OhfN1Nl.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/IW7CuJR.jpeg
Over i2s, Redbook CD upsampled to 24/192, it sounds better than a SACD of the same album, played in to the same dac over my Oppo 203. :eek:
Bit of a gamechanger this.
Has a USB input, and can play SACD *.ISO files, an ability my Oppo lost a few firmware updates ago.
All my SACD rips playing in native DSD, from a USB stick, playing over i2s to my Dac, full Res... and all from a £600 cd transport?
WTF!!
Server functionality too, UPNP, Bluetooth, DNLA and Airplay 1 (the original that does lossless)
Streams lossless audio from Apple TV (Radio Paradise,YouTube, Apple Music) over Airplay and sounds fantastic - a genuine hifi source now Apple's hardware limitation has been worked around.
Believe Shanling are working on Roon Certification as well, though thats not set in stone yet.
Cool wee display on it too:
ALBUM ART WITH TRACK INFO
https://i.imgur.com/2m6dx2H.jpeg
STREAMING OVER DNLA
https://i.imgur.com/R6xhRSK.jpeg
STREAMING OVER AIRPLAY (Lossless Audio from AppleTV)
https://i.imgur.com/wCAOGYi.jpeg
STREAMING OVER BLUETOOTH
https://i.imgur.com/Z0EfdVq.jpeg
CD UPSAMPLING (Can go to DSD 512, but Redbook CD best at 24/192)
https://i.imgur.com/6neDVoS.jpeg
I'm buying CDs again!
... AND reliving the same Sellers remorse I had selling my vinyl to go CD... went streaming a few years back and sold a lot of CDs.
Damn wish I'd kept them.
Anyhoo.
Sound quality of the Transport scales up depending on your Dac?
Audiolab and Oppo were great, but can run out of capacity depending what they are plugged into. Kinda learning how good my PS Audio dac actually is with this thing...
Brings a lot of resolution to CDs and sounds detailed, grain free and transparent.
Couldn't want for more really.
Source first?
CONS
The Shanling App needs a bit of work, early stages yet and very simple.
Need it to browse music from USB drive, and delve into deeper settings.
Few software glitches initially getting my Wifi to connect, had to set my router to Legacy mode for the initial connection via the App.
Shanling recently updated the Firmware (always a good sign) to V1.7 and any software niggles I had have gone.
Little bump in sound quality too I think, especially playing DSD stuff over USB.
(Like Apple, a lot of unnanounced software stuff going on under the hood)
Purely as a CD Transport its Killer?
Easily beats both my Audiolab 6000CDT and Oppo 203 into the same Dac, and both were heavily modded and improved over stock.
More refined, higher resolution "high end" sound from it, not digital sounding at all.
With the Server functionality, a rare set of digital outputs, including USB output, this things a Doozy.
Its a digital swiss army knife, and sounds superb. Best digital I've had in my system.
Not the best You Tube quality video ever, but gives an idea of the dynamics of this thing, its genuinely blow your hair back amazing.
(SPOLIER: THE TRANSPORTS NOT A BOTTLENECK, EVEN WITH AN ACCUPHASE AMP)
Listen for how "organic" it sounds and how it just "flows"?
Thats what I'm hearing with my own music.
https://youtu.be/n_iOq1Y3hsg?si=mMTgPwZLcS55qsH_
Build quality is extremely good, not just for its pricepoint but significantly more.
Very solid damped casework, all the hifi worry stuff has been thought of by Shanling already and taken care of.
The Top Loading is an absolute delight, very hands on and gives it a "digital turntable" vibe, I love it.
Had similar with my Pioneer Stable Platter player way back when, but not like this.
SO much better than a rattly plastic tray.
This stuff all adds to enjoying putting on a CD.
Had zero issues with mine once I got Wifi connected.
Best way to digital music?
Streaming... With all it's "Ah.. but"s, or a modern CD Transport into a good Dac.
Dunno?
The Shanling is toe to toe with my record player. Better in a lot of ways.
This things amazing,
anyone sitting on the fence I'd say go for it, best improvement to my system in years.
Sounds like the Shanling was a good choice Gary. Some really great stuff coming out of these Chinese companies.
Have you seen the Gustard X30 DAC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLkFoU3fu18&t=348s. Things are still moving in the digital world and I like the look of this number crunching machine.
At least you can re-buy your CDs for a lot less money than re-buying your vinyl!
Fair comment!Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
(Thank You Music Magpie... :D)
Hiya JamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Yeah,
heard good things about this Dac, always nice to see i2s being more widely adopted too.
Done right it really is the best digital connection.
Good looking bit of gear, looks its price (at £2K+) which isn't always the case.
Your spot on in that digital is moving forward all the time, think the delta between mid price gear and high end is narrowing all the time?
Would enjoy hearing one.
Really like the display on the X30, its a forward looking piece of kit.
Great write up on it here:
https://soundnews.net/reviews/source...lta-sigma-dac/
Some really great kit coming from the Far East nowadays, the old stigmas and stereotypes dont mean a thing now.
And it's only going to get better!
Another similarly priced new Dac is this one, the Liav Harmony from Japan.
https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/wp-...373_750pix.jpg
An R2R Ladder Dac, balanced outputs and using i2s, ticks all my boxes.
Love the looks of this thing, genuinely different.
https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/rev...ost_from=38905
Can't say I agree with the idea that digital is moving forwards, I think it was a done deal a long time ago.
Most of the technology now being discovered and hailed as advances is from the 1980s - like I2S and R-2R. Only difference with R-2R now is they do it discretely at much higher cost and with less accuracy (not less enough to matter, but still...).
I'm currently using a DAC from 1989 and I'm fairly convinced it's giving nothing away to one from 2024.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJm6-77fNQuote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Always new things to discover, and ways to improve what’s already there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Don’t disagree the fundamentals are probably already out the box, but refining them seems to be ongoing.
Have to admit when I got the Sony pre-amp I was a bit concerned that its DAC wouldn't be up to it, and as all inputs are digitised there's no way to bypass it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Concerns went away with the first few bars of music!
Agree that there's always ways of pushing the envelope with the DAC technology. I'm sure that the Topping it replaced would trash it in the measurements. But I think we passed the limits of our hearing a long time back. And my hearing's not getting better with time (or any other bit of me for that matter...)