See above. If it was a socket job then I'd say it was another "no brainer". I had to give it a go though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge
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See above. If it was a socket job then I'd say it was another "no brainer". I had to give it a go though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge
If it was socketed, I think we would all have tried it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
The way you are describing the sound it seems to me the presentation is quite "forward" - More so than the stock DAC. I'm guessing it may just be a little too up-front for my K701's, and my ears.
However, thanks for having the b...s to try the Wolfson chip, you comments are much appreciated.
Ken
It sounds nothing like that with my K701's. Time, space and position exhibit a greater amount of clarity and certainty on my setup with the WM8716.Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge
Yes, but time, space and position are relative (sorry - I couldn't resist :)).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
I don't want the sound to be any "brighter" than it is at the moment though. If it gives better depth, however, then that's fine. This is always going to be a case of "one man's meat is another man's poison".
Perhaps Trailer can expand on the 8716's sound signature...
Ken
I'm going to give it a right good listening to tonight and I'll get back to you tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge
Right as promised some findings:
I thought I'd have a listen to the 7520 with the 4032's as that is what was in it pre-Wolfson. Initially it is impressive but after a while it got a bit tiresome and not really good for late night listening. I had a thought that maybe I could try the old op-amp rolling trick again.
This morning I decided to give the op-amps ago:
LT1364: Less tiresome as the 4032's but with the same amount of detail.
4562's: Smoother with the same amount of detail and I thought these will do.
However, I still had a couple of 49720's to hand. I popped these in and they were even better. Smooth, detailed and VERY natural sounding. Not digital at all, very analogue.
I've been listening to Ryan Adams 29 CD (an old favourite) this afternoon with the 49720's and it really is a pleasure. I'll let them warm up again for couple of days and hopefully they'll get even better.
I'm guessing that the extra resolution(?) of the Wolfson with the 4032's was just a bit too much out there for long listening periods?
That's very interesting because I thought the 49720 was just a re-numbered 4562 - And is actually the same chip.Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Comparing the WM8716 with the PCM1716 now that you are settled on an op-amp - Should I put the order in for a 8716?
Oh, and BTW - has the "popping" on the optical resolved itself - bit of an issue for me this as I use the optical most?
Sorry to go on a bit but as you can appreciate, swapping the DAC is not trivial and I want to be sure it's going to be woth the effort. I know Stan is all for it though, which counts for a lot.
Ken
The 49720s I have are the canned variety.
I haven't tried the optical again, but I'll give it a go later on.
I don't get any popping issues on my TC-7520 with WM8716.
I got a set of the 49720 from Simon (YP53 on ebay), and hope to try them over the weekend. He has bought a TC-7520 for opamp testing, so hopefully we'll get some more useful info from that direction.
Stan
Hi,
i ordered my 7520 today, can't wait for it to arrive!
Quick questions if i may?
My DIY Amplifier has no volume control, so i assume i will use the variable output to my amp?
Regarding changing opamps, is it the case that the headphone amp and variable output share the same opamp, so this for me will be one to change?
Finally which opamp is which, when i have the unit open?
Thanks in advance, Mark.
I tried the optical again today. It's still popping but nowhere near as loud as with the 4032.
I'm wondering if it had something to do with the Maplin PSU blow out?
I have a 7510 mod 21 (1 and 2) with the 4032 and a Maplins Linear Bench Supply rated at 13.8v and use a Squeezebox and don't have any popping noises that you have decribed. I use the coaxial input though and have not tried optical.
Regards
Chris
The popping started after either my Maplin PSU blew up or the Wolfson chip was fitted.
The PSU blew up the day I sent the 7520 away for the new chip. After the PSU blew all I did was plug the wall wart PSU in to make sure the 7520 still powered up and didn't give it a listen, so it may well of happened then.
Did the guy who did the Wolfson install not check the 7520 before he did the swap? - Maybe he did but didn't check all the inputs...Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
That was probably the case. I guess I should have checked it before I sent it too.
By the way, after a couple of days warming up the 49720+Wolfson is sounding bloody marvellous.
That's good to hear - Did you ever try the plastic cased LM4562's? I like them a lot and use them for both Headphone and line-out. Do they still work with the Wolfson DAC?Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
I think I will order a couple of WM8716's - They are very reasonably priced - And have a good ponder on the updrade. If I decide to go ahead, I may create another thread detailing the work involved in case any members are interested in having a go.
Ken
I think I got mine direct from Wolfson as "samples".
I didn't try the 4562's. At the time that the op-amp rolling recommendations kicked off I think someone, might have been Leo, suggested that the 49720's gave a better performance so I went straight to them.
I would certainly recommend the Wolfson chip. Don't be put off by my popping issues. Stan hasn't got them so I think it's something that's happened uniquely to mine.
Metal can version of both 4562 and 49720 is better than their plastic cased brothers, improved thermal properties etc
Regarding the popping issue, do you hear these noises on the same songs or is it pretty random?
Is it heard with no music playing?
Does the 7520 use series resistors on the op-amps output ?
It only happens when there is music playing (randomly) and only on the optical. It doesn't happen on the co-ax. I've tried different sources on the optical and it's the same. Weird or what?Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
Hmm, thats interesting, well it does narrow things down a little and gives a few options to test and check, I'd start with basics, you may have already mentioned you tried these things but I'm not reading through all the thread:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Anyway
(Removed, already tried it)
Is the optical lead ok, no cracks in the lead or muck etc on the ends
Is the optical socket ok, no fractured or dry joints giving intermittent connections
If the voltage supplying the optical input isn't consistant it could cause problems
Whilst music is playing try gently tapping the dac to see if it increases the popping
Maybe the optical level is slightly too high and causing random clipping
It should be possible to find the problem, it may just require a bit of time
I'll have a check of those and let you know.
Thanks again Leo.
... my first modding attempt?
I have received three 4562s for my 7520, one, in case I screw up.
Could someone perhaps post a picture of the 7520 insides and mark, which pieces I need to exchange?
Any special trick in removing and installing these tiny bits?
Sorry, to barge in with such basic questions, but I don't want to destroy the 7520 ;)
ciao for now
eckhard
There are several pictures in this same thread that show the exact things you are after. So you'll have to browse through the whole lot I am afraid. It takes time, but well worth it.
Stan
Just received the Wolfson WM8716 DAC chip in readiness for the upgrade. I am a little pushed for time at the moment and I don't want to rush it so I'll keep you informed of the swap when I get round to it.
Also in the mailing I ordered a AD826 op-amp which I have just installed in the headphone socket.
I'll leave it burning in but first impressions are very good - I have been looking for the word to describe the sound - And that word is "Refined" with a capital R!
This chip is without doubt the best I have tried to date IMHO - really makes the K701's sing - Not a hint of bad manners like the 4032, it just reproduces music - And how.
I advise you try one (or two). I can hardly wait to hear how this is going to sound with the Wolfson DAC - Ooooh I fell quite excited - Guick nurse, the screens....
Ken
How did you find the 49720's Stan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
My TC-7520 is now Wolf powered!
I have just completed the swap - And it's not a job for the faint of heart. Getting the old chip out was pretty straightforward, but installing the WM8716 proved a challenge and no mistake ;).
It's quite difficult to hold the soldering iron steady whilst reaching into the guts of the 7520 - And the DAC's pins are only 0.65mm between centres. If you decide to tackle the job yourself, make sure you have some de-soldering braid and some liquid flux - The job would not be possible without them I don't think.And try not to snag a pin with the braid like I did :doh: - Took ages to get it back in position.
But - Was it worth the effort?
Too right it was !! :)
The difference is not night and day, but to me the music sounds much more natural. Instruments can be positioned better and the whole soundstage is wider and more "airy". And this is just from the headphone out - I haven't tried the line out yet.
I have tried all inputs though, and they all behave fine - No sign of Trailer's "popping" problem.
I'm just going to give the WM8716 the once over with the 10X loupe and if all's OK the lid goes back on the 7520 to stay ...... Until next time :eyebrows:
Ken
Excellent Ken. It will be interesting to hear what your choice of op-amp would be now.Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge
Funny you should mention that - I said in a recent post I have fitted an AD826 in the headphone position and I love it :) - It's the best I have tried so far, bar none. So at the moment I am using an LM4562NA in the Line-out, but I will definately be trying an AD826 next time I put an order in.Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Just been listening to a couple of tracks with the Senn HD600's from the USB - Super smooth in silk stockings :smoking:
Ken
With the WM8716 it reminds me of the Koetsu Gold I used to own.Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Koetsu Gold and Signature MC were smooth as silk especially in the mid-range to recall from memory. If the Wolfson DAC is that good compared to the current 7520 DAC it is really something special
I want one!
Dammit Stan, now you've got me wanting one :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
I need to find someone brave enough to perform the mod. There's no way I'd attempt that one.
I've just ordered a couple of AD826's from RS.
I'll have enough to open a second hand op-amp shop shortly. :barrel:
I hope you like the AD826 as much as I do. I'll be interested to hear your comparison to the metal can 4562 (or is it the 49720 you have?).Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
BTW - Did you sort out the "popping" noise on the optical in?
Ken
It's the 49720 can I have in at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge
I'll get the op-amps tomorrow and I'll have another look (listen?) at the optical again.
Hello,Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge
What is the original dac chip used in the TC-7520 ?
I tried to search the forum and homehifi.co.uk website, but couldn't find that information ...
Thanks a lot
Hi, standard DAC chip is a Burr-Brown PCM1716.Quote:
Originally Posted by nb2
Ken
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by sponge
I have wharfedale 9.2 speakers and akg k701 headphones, just wondering whether putting in the AD826 will make a substantial difference to the headphone output from the 7520?
I am using it as a standalone headphone amp.
Thanks
As with all these things, it's always subjective. But personally, I think the AD826 is as good as it gets, and I am using K701's. I have an LM4562NA in the line-out socket which I also think is a good choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanedudddy2
I suggest you look through the thread - There are several op-amps and combinations you could try, and most are reasonably priced. So have a go at op-amp rolling, there is nothing to lose and plenty to gain :)
Let us know how you get on.
Ken
Received my AD826's today.
:dance:
Very very good.
If you get your 7520 "Wolfsoned" make sure you order an AD826. Like Ken has mentioned the sound is very refined and smooth. Just like it should be.
Thanks for the tip!
I checked out the optical again whilst I had the unit unplugged. Same old popping on the right channel. It isn't the optical cable as I checked it on the DVD player. It isn't present on the co-ax. I checked pretty much all of what you suggested Leo but nothing obvious appeared.
Anyone using the AD826 with a THS4032 in the line-out socket? If so any problems?
Are you using the 826 in the line-out too? I am wondering, as I'm sure many are, if it gives better results than the 4032.
Hi Rob,Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum
Personally, I lost a bit of favour with the 4032 - Can be a great sounding chip, no doubt about that, but I couldn't live with it's little problems (instability?) - clicking between tracks etc. So I now use a LM4562NA in the line-out socket - Still a very good sounding op-amp, but much better behaved.
Ken
Please advise what is involved in fitting a 7520 with the OPA627's?
Do you need to double them, or is it still two total? Any adapters necessary?
I see they come in an 8 pin confige, but they are PDIP not MDIP.
The OPA627 now has a big brother - The OPA827 - Maybe you would like to try that?Quote:
Originally Posted by machinehead
Either way, you are better obtaining a pre-mounted pair of SOIC's on a single adapter like these here:
http://cimarrontechnology.com/twopre...020302s-1.aspx
Hellish expensive especially if you are upgrading both op-amps in the 7520. Not worth it IMHO, but if you decide to go for it - Let us know how they sound.
Ken
Hi all,
i have had my 7520 just over 2 weeks now (burning in 24/7) and it is very good quality. I had bought dual OPA627 on a B/D adaptor from a UK guy on ebay. (art of sound user: apmusson) on this thread, also bought one, so hopefully he will comment on it too.
Impressions were positive yet i had a weird nagging mixed feeling. I am not good at describing sounds but here goes. Firstly it was very, very smooth, velvety infact. Very detailed and clear but really soft with it. Bass was reduced compared to the THS4032, with not as much impact. Acoustic music was really very beautiful, brought big smiles all round, with a hint in the back of my mind that it didn't sound real in someway. The 4032 just seemed to present the music really honestly, whereas the OPA627 seemed to be doing 'something' more to the music, to give it feeling of liquidity. There was certainly an ethereal quality to the sound, extremely delicate and refined if you like, a little like a dream v reality.
I can't say i could choose a winner out of the OPA627 and THS4032. I had some friends round on Saturday and we knocked out a load of varied tracks and i put the THS4032 in and it worked really well. But sometimes late in the evening if i want to listen to something like Sheila Jordan or Diana Krall the OPA627 will be going back in and i can be transported to a different world.
Not exactly scientific i know.
Regards, Mark.
I did it ... installed a pair of LM4562NA in my TC7520!
For you seasoned rollers, this may just be worth a yawn, but this old man here had never opened any piece of equipment before ..... and it was a breeze. (Thanks, Stan)
I didn't do it, because I was missing something in the base 7520's sound, but rather, because I was inspired by you guys. ;)
Did it bring something? Well, yes, it did.
I listen primarily to chamber and small ensemble music, which thrives on openness. My STAX electrostatics are superb for that type of music.
Replacing the OpAmps has resulted in what I can only describe as a more analogue almost tubey sound.
I believe the entire midrange becomes richer, which benefits celli and voices in particular.
Now, I also need a small, portable USB DAC/Amp for my iPhone, which I could take along on business trips. How about, Stan?
Beware Prenz, you are on a slippery slope to DIY land....
I am thinking about building a pair of monoblock amps from kits just because I changed an op-amp.
Steady on old chap.
Strictly no soldering-just wires to connector blocks. I can hear you tut tutting from here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin