Humm :scratch:Quote:
Mr Brook has been working on a top secret project for me which has just come to fruition............ DSD.
What is it What is it ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????:)
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Humm :scratch:Quote:
Mr Brook has been working on a top secret project for me which has just come to fruition............ DSD.
What is it What is it ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????:)
My friends T-1210MkII, with the new bearing,
& test-drive. (with extenal PSU).
Arne K
(do I need to say I'm envious?)
M.N. - "what are all the others doing? "
I don't think there any doubts about the benefits of Mikes bearing, in the end I think it just comes down to cost v core market.
Most people would be looking at the bearing as part of a number of upgrades including PSU/Platter/Arm. If you don't do this your not going to reap the benefits anyway. If you take all of these elements to the same high standard, you end up with a bill measured well into four figures.
Many Techie owners are not into that level of expenditure and other potential owners would spend that kind of total outlay on a different deck in the first place. So there is allways going to be a high level of curiosity that does not develop into sales.
For the owners on smaller budgets and with this deck and its initial cost, I would suggest that is the majority, they go the way of DIY or less effective but more affordable off the shelf soloutions.
To put it into perspective, I have two SL-1200 mk2's bought at different times for less than £150 a piece.
My pre-owned Sugden amp cost less than Mikes bearing, my pre-owned Tannoy Cheviots cost less than the bearing. etc.
It's a combination of factors, demographics, in that many of the people in the position to spend these sums would buy something like a Nottingham Analogue and would not want to tinker, many would look down on the humble Techie as a DJ deck anyway. There are the few that have the foresight to realize what a great piece of kit it really is, but may not want to, or feel confident/have skills to do any of the mods. then there are the, I would suggest majority that just can't afford or justify the total outlay for the ultimate upgrade path. There are also those that would rather spend the money on vinyl.
The remainder that have the combination of forsight/skills/wonga grab the bearing with both hands and don't let go. ;)
Just my ramblings on the subject. :D
I agree. However, think of the MN bearing as the 'unlocker' of vast potential. Without it, the other upgrades will give you only partial success.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwin
New platter? :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzan
I am planning to get a Mike New bearing hopefully in 2014.
This year has been the cartridge, feet, mat and PSU.
I can't afford to drop all the cash at once on the Techie, and I am happily enjoying the upgrades one at a time as part of the upgrade path.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prestonchipfryer
What l can tell you it is good, very good, that is all l can say at this moment in time.:cool:
I think that's the best way forward just enjoy what you've got and then upgrad when you feel the urge..Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyH
Quote:
Originally Posted by prestonchipfryer
Cold:)
Gee!
I did not imagine that my post reflecting on the number of visits to this thread, versus actual Bearing users; would have attracted the number of comments it has. However I would have thought that even given Ken's very thoughtful evaluation of the reasons, there would have been many more users than there actually are.
Hi MikeQuote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
I use a 1200 and could happily afford your bearing but I have asked previously for some comparison measurements between a 1200 with the stock bearing and one with your bearing installed but got no response. I'm not suggesting that your bearing is not superior engineering, I would just like to see that demonstrated with something other than a subjective review. As I suggested then this might well lead to more sales being made. Now Dave MCRU is the vendor perhaps he might sort something out?
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Subjective:
Hard to see the difference between a Toyota and a Mercedes?
Having had a "bunch" of SP-10MkII, I rather prefer this (1210MkII & bearing).
Arne K
My Yesteryears collection: (3,5 x SP-10 + SP-15)
Arne K
Here's a thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
I know David at MCRU has too much time on his hands :)
How about he sets up a base, totally ordinary Tech, one with a MN bearing only and then a fully modded one
The problem with any comparison I.E. two identical set ups apart from the bearing............
Is that the results depend on the listeners perception which may differ from yours.
To set up actual measurements is inpractical because of the time and effort required and the huge amount of very expensive equipment.
Could you even define the test criterion that should be adopted?
You can rely on the basic material properties as a comparison and the differences in machining accuracy but would that mean much to anyone other than an engineer? And how do you translate that into acoustic properties?
I'm afraid its not a very straight forward thing to prove to someone else.
The ONLY way you are going to get a none subjective opinion is to hear identical set ups yourself and make your own mind up.
As a rule of thumb you could compare the number of positive owner remarks compared with negative but it won't take long for someone to point out that those that have allready spent money on the product are less likely to critisise it, so you can't win. :)
Of the four million Techie's sold since the early seventies only approx 250 have the Mike New bearing.
I totally agree with the statement about positive owner remarks, and along with the many issues about subjective testing means that there can be no winners to the discussion.
I for one will decide to buy the bearing or not based on the availability of spare funds to experiment with. I found it very useful to be able to see and handle the bearing at the recent Whittlebury show, finding it beautifully engineered and in a different league to the stock item.
I found it very useful to be able to see and handle the bearing at the recent Whittlebury show, finding it beautifully engineered and in a different league to the stock item.
I fondled it as we'll :eyebrows:
The bearing that is :D
Ooh! You are naughty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
Rather than fondle the Bearing, why don't you put both hands around it and grab one for yourself!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
:lol:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
I already have one ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
That has has not been played in anger.......
:ner:
I am sorry Audio, I don't how to put this but I didn't know you had one.
Oh yes I have one , purchased in a TT from a forum member on AOS along with other upgrades ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzan
As someone said to me " Patience my dear fellow.. patience ";)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
l would be of service and run your MN bearing in for you in for you Al, as indeed l am running in your Croft- that sounds very nice............:):cool:
Delighted with my MN bearing having had both stock and Vantage bearings in the past - decided not to get a MN bearing plate purely because I don't want the platter raised up as I like the look of it in the original position - however, a small but audible improvement is to be had by using KAB support wax - care needed to ensure the MN bearing is fully seated in the bearing well so judicious use of a hair dryer on the wax - only takes about 20 minutes to do but rewarded by tighter bass and timing.
Steve
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Interesting, Stephen. I've never heard of KAB support wax.
Hi Martin.
www.kabusa.com and go to their Technics page - the support wax was hugely beneficial to the stock bearing so thought I'd try it with the MN. The MN is deeper than the stock and the 3 bolt heads are just above the base of the bearing well so need to really make sure the wax does not cause it to rise up or be uneven - it provides a solid and uniform support for the bearing housing for a couple of quid which does firm up the bottom end
Steve
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
I may just try that if I contemplate opening her up again, despite having the base plate installed.
Martin - can I ask what the base plate did in terms of SQ? I was tempted to get one but Mike said it raises the bearing and hence the platter by 3 mm and as I'm using the VA platter and really don't want it raised up for aesthetic reasons I didn't get one. The KAB wax definitely makes the bass taughter - fast and complex percussion and flamenco has better timing and attack
Steve
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
It did pretty much the same as you claim for the wax: tightened up the bass. The height is a non-issue with Mike's ETP platter.
Interesting - that's what I reckoned it would do. Yes I can see from piccies of the MN platter how it sits but I do like my copper plated VA platter - I think I'd have to demo one before punting that much dollar as I'm not sure I can wring much more out of the Technics
Steve
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
You cant "demo" one as you need to make quite significant modifications to your plinth. It's a "suck it and see" modifcation.
Yes, it's definitely not for the faint-hearted and requires complete dismantling and accurate drilling of the chassis. If you bond it, too, there is no way back.
I have the Mike New bearing and it has not worked for me. This is contrary to most reports, so I am still working out why this could be. I will post again when I have some conclusions.
Ah ha! Hadn't appreciated that. Does the same apply to the Funk platter? I seem to remember a thread mentioning that the Funk platter didn't fit on the MN bearing
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Do you mean physically, or it hasn't yielded improvements for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei
No, that was only a prototype of the Mk. II platter.Quote:
Originally Posted by worrasf
Thanks for the clarification Martin
It has yielded no improvements. Installation went fine by following the instructions from Mike New and supplemented on Hi-Fi Pig (A forum member I think and a big thanks to him!). I've checked my installation and the bearing is sitting correctly. My provisional conclusion is that this is due to my existing bearing having serviced and/or being relatively new. It is still early(ish) days so I am going to give it more 'run-in' time. I can also check to see how long it spins by itself by switching the TT off and counting the revolutions it takes to stop. I am then going to re-install my original bearing and do the same test and also some listening.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Concerning the mounting of my Bearing.
Those of you who have fitted it (or have removed the old bearing for whatever purpose) may have noticed that there are 3 raised areas around the three screw holes. For improved total contact with the much larger flange of my Bearing, these raised ares can be removed and the whole mounting area made level with a flat file.
I have never mentioned this before (except in the case of fitting my Bearing Base Plate) because I was concerned that this action may cause the bearing to be too low and cause the outer edge of the platter to rub on the chassis.
However I believe that maybe I was too cautious, I will include the advice in the Installation Instructions if you believe it is the right thing to do.
Also having done this you can experiment with using a thin washer of material between the flange and the chassis which may produce interesting results.
Andrei,
I would suspect that you have other issues with your SL1200 which are masking the improvement, that my bearing obviously offers. (based on the reports of nearly 200 users). Have you checked the mounting of your arm for looseness? or even the verasity of your electronics?
It is producing good results both before and after the bearing. It is just that I have heard no improvement. As mentioned I will re-install the old bearing and see how that goes. I'm going away for xmas so wont be doing anything major till then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
Hi MikeQuote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
I hesitate to teach my grandmother etc etc but I'm not sure about this suggestion. I know for a fact that with your bearing fitted and with those 3 lugs still untouched the heads of the 3 thrust plate bolts are only a hairs breadth from the base of the bearing well. I know this because I tried using a silicone putty to seat the bearing in and on removing the cast the bolt heads had pierced the silicone but there was about a 1mm layer in the centre of the thrust plate. I'm now using KAB wax instead which is easier to mould and ensure the bearing is fully home. So I think removing the lugs will just result in the bearing being supported on the 3 bolt heads.
Steve
Hi Stephen,
Yea I cannot dissagree with you, you probably have one of the chassis with a slightly shallower well depth than the one I used as the guide when I decided on the bearing depth. which gave a clearance of about 3-4mm. One always has to allow for the 'worst case' situation.
HI Stephen/Worrasf,
When I first replaced the stock bearing with the MN I just did a straight swap out. I preferred this to the stock bearing, the deck itself was brand virginal new. Must mention here that I was still using the stock platter with copper mat at the time, subsequently replaced by the MN Ali/Cu bonded platter still in use today :). At a later date I bought and installed the MN bearing base plate which Mike N had provided an additional three mounting holes so that the base plate could FIRST be bolted to the flange of the MN bearing and then this assembly secured to the chassis by five bolts as used by MartinT and Cable Maker on here I believe. After this had been accomplished the three new threaded screws (from MN) bolted both the bearing and B/plate down in the usual manner. MartinT had super Araldited his bearing assembly but as far as I am aware did not use the additional MN base plate to bearing flange bolts x 3 that I have used and mentioned herein. I completed this fixture by not using Araldite (if you go this adhesive route it is a permanent fixture as MartinT has outlined) but by using a breakable automotive gasket paste twix mating flanges of base plate and chassis pan this would allow me to disassemble the fixture if required. The KAB wax has interested me but will require the assembly I have achieved to be taken apart again... Herself would not welcome the idea of the dining room table been taken over again... she will never accept the fact that the said dining room table also doubles as my work bench!
Merry Xmas and 2014 everyone :D
PLEASE NOTE CAREFULLY!!! adding a MN bearing base plate requires accurate skill with drill and soft metal drill bits (MN instructs on these) and there is practically zilch leeway if you/anybody effs/stuffs this up!!! Skill/knowledge plus steady nerve is a requirement to do this fixture successfully but it has been done and I've probably over played this?
With all of MN's goodies and an recently final upgrade of outboard PSU I've come to journey's end with my 1210 and just sit back enjoy and marvel.
Somewhere on this forum CableMaker outlined his bearing plate assemble pictorially and our venerable Marco did so for me. Me and photobucket do notlike one another?
Thanks for that Ron. I'm pretty comfy with drilling to tight tolerances but have decided to let the base plate pass me by. While I will never know for sure I reckon the added support and stability provided by the KAB wax is likely to be giving me a fair proportion of the benefits to be gained with a MN base plate - the improvement in bass articulation with the KAB wax was readily noticeable. I probably will go down the road of changing my Vantage Audio platter when funds permit but I really am undecided as to whether this will be the Funk or MN but I'm leaning towards the former which I understand has the more neutral presentation of the 2.
Steve
Only the base plate is bonded to the chassis, the bearing itself is free to be removed!Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzBones
Having compared them, I don't think I agree with this. The Funk has a mild upper-mid recess which the ETP does not have, making the latter the more neutral of the two, and certainly more detailed in the very important voice range.Quote:
Originally Posted by worrasf