View Full Version : TRUMP IS IN THE (WHITE) HOUSE. Fact. Too big to rig.
It speaks volumes about the loon-balls, cranks and tinfoil-hatters he’s surrounded himself with. This is the big difference between Trump 1.0 and Trump 2.0. This time there’s nobody left to talk sense and rein him in.
US Tariffs applied to even uninhabited islands … Such a great job Trump!
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250402-us-tariffs-take-aim-everywhere-including-uninhabited-islands
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Prevents them from being used as a loophole by the owning country?
Have to say if I was going to criticise Trump's tariff policy that wouldn't be the first thing I'd pick on.
Berni217
03-04-2025, 09:26
Prevents them from being used as a loophole by the owning country?
Have to say if I was going to criticise Trump's tariff policy that wouldn't be the first thing I'd pick on.
Once again, you are trying to find some reasoning where there is not…
They don’t even know which countries are part of the Europe Union …
Example: Martinique, Guadeloupe, La Reunion are all French departments and part of EU with a 10% tariffs while there is 20% on EU.
Also, Russia & Bellarussia are both excluded from the list: we know why!
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Once again, you are trying to find some reasoning where there is not…
They don’t even know which countries are part of the Europe Union …
Example: Martinique, Guadeloupe, La Reunion are all French departments and part of EU with a 10% tariffs while there is 20% on EU.
Also, Russia & Bellarussia are both excluded from the list: we know why!
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You seem certain there is no reasoning behind it when at present there's no reason to think that other than it doesn't fit a narrative.
Maybe it is just a stupid mistake but right now we don't know that.
In the context of a country like the U.S increasing tariffs in this way it's not in the slightest bit important in any case. It's the least relevant thing to pick up on.
Maybe Macca is playing devils advocate? Maybe not, I don’t know…
I would’ve thought the real reason was ignorance and incompetence, because it would be very easy for Trump to simply slap a tariff on anywhere that was later used as a loophole. It could be done in 5 minutes, so the incentive to set up any infrastructure to exploit such a loophole just isn’t there.
Trump would also love making a big deal out of doing so, which makes me think it’s not his style to prevent such things. He’d rather let someone transgress and then punish them.
Maybe Macca is playing devils advocate? Maybe not, I don’t know…
.
Yes I am, but it also comes from experience.
If someone does or says something that appears nonsensical or illogical I don't automatically go to 'Hah! You're an idiot!'
My first action is to ask them why they are saying or doing that. Maybe there is information I am not privy to. If there is, then I learn something. That doesn't happen often but it happens often enough that I look before I leap.
I can understand that as an approach, but isn’t it tempered by the “history” of the individual? Even the kindest soul would have to admit Trump has “form”. He also hires on the basis of loyalty and blind obedience, and fires whenever there is challenge or dissent. It’s therefore not so likely that folk around him would want to challenge or raise issues. On that basis, and my thoughts above, I’m not convinced it’s reasonable to assume there is method in his madness on this. YMMV.
Berni217
03-04-2025, 11:15
At which point too many mistakes are enough?!
People seem to realise the mess there are into and the real consequences of a fool that some thought that the lies coming out of his mouth were funny!
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I can understand that as an approach, but isn’t it tempered by the “history” of the individual? Even the kindest soul would have to admit Trump has “form”. He also hires on the basis of loyalty and blind obedience, and fires whenever there is challenge or dissent. It’s therefore not so likely that folk around him would want to challenge or raise issues. On that basis, and my thoughts above, I’m not convinced it’s reasonable to assume there is method in his madness on this. YMMV.
Trump is no different from a lot of people in that respect. Who has not worked for bosses like that? If not they've been lucky.
I agree it's not reasonable to assume but why assume? And why pick out such a minor aspect of this policy for critique? Just so people can say 'Trump is stupid' once more?
The general thrust of my argument has always been that the opposition to Trump is just as poor in quality as Trump and we'll continue to get more Trump until the opposition ups its game considerably.
There's a hundred criticisms of this new tariff policy that can be made, all of them based on fact and reason. But no, we just get 'Trump is stupid' based on some minor possible error.
Berni217
03-04-2025, 11:24
Yes I am, but it also comes from experience.
If someone does or says something that appears nonsensical or illogical I don't automatically go to 'Hah! You're an idiot!'
My first action is to ask them why they are saying or doing that. Maybe there is information I am not privy to. If there is, then I learn something. That doesn't happen often but it happens often enough that I look before I leap.
Which experience? Is not as if we don’t know who is Trump…
A man who wanted to cure Covid by injecting bleach in people’s lungs?
If you ask them, their answer is likely to be that they have been transparent all along and have explained for months what they wanted to achieve by the new tariffs which will bring manufacturing and wealth in the US and enrich the Americans, a way that no one has seen before. There will be a little pain along the way but it will be all worth it!
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Berni217
03-04-2025, 11:33
Trump is no different from a lot of people in that respect. Who has not worked for bosses like that? If not they've been lucky.
I agree it's not reasonable to assume but why assume? And why pick out such a minor aspect of this policy for critique? Just so people can say 'Trump is stupid' once more?
The general thrust of my argument has always been that the opposition to Trump is just as poor in quality as Trump and we'll continue to get more Trump until the opposition ups its game considerably.
There's a hundred criticisms of this new tariff policy that can be made, all of them based on fact and reason. But no, we just get 'Trump is stupid' based on some minor possible error.
I should be lucky then as I have never worked for a CEO who is a blatant liar, does not respect basic business ethics and is cheating / stabbing his employees, customers and partners.
Such CEO would be out of a job very quickly, unless we are not living on the same world!
Which experience? Is not as if we don’t know who is Trump…
A man who wanted to cure Covid by injecting bleach in people’s lungs?
Great example of what I'm talking about. He didn't say that at all. True he was rambling incoherently about a subject he knew nothing about, but that's by the by.
You are not going to convince anyone not to vote for Trump with that sort of rhetoric. You're not going to convince anyone by making stuff up.
What he actually said:
"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."
There was a hundred things Trump did in his first term that can be validly criticised, so why invent?
That he is President again proves my point.
I should be lucky then as I have never worked for a CEO who is a blatant liar, does not respect basic business ethics and is cheating / stabbing his employees, customers and partners.
Such CEO would be out of a job very quickly, unless we are not living on the same world!
We're not living in the same world.
Berni217
03-04-2025, 13:09
Great example of what I'm talking about. He didn't say that at all. True he was rambling incoherently about a subject he knew nothing about, but that's by the by.
You are not going to convince anyone not to vote for Trump with that sort of rhetoric. You're not going to convince anyone by making stuff up.
What he actually said:
"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."
There was a hundred things Trump did in his first term that can be validly criticised, so why invent?
That he is President again proves my point.
Not making things up at all man!
You’ve missed the following comment from Trump in the same conversation …
”I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what."
People who have worked with Trump mentioned that when he suggested something is similar to an order. Therefore in this specific case, he was directing his cabinet on a way forward. Similar to Trump showing alternate map of the hurricane Dorian’s path.
Full story here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177.amp
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Berni217
03-04-2025, 13:10
We're not living in the same world.
Agreed.
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I don’t think the comparison to bosses who favour sycophants really stands up.
For one, the stakes and the scale of damage are exponentially higher. Then we have Trump’s criminality, his pathological lying, his attempt to remain in office illegals and the opinion of many eminent psychologists that he’s insane and dangerous. Frankly the evidence of my own eyes and ears makes this clear to me behind any doubt.
Sure, the alternative in this election wasn’t great. I agree with you on that, and I expect many will concede that too. Given the dangers Trump poses, the “they are both as bad as each other” argument just doesn’t stack up.
One thing I do agree with you on is that not everyone who voted for Trump was a full-on Maga maniac. Lots of folk voted for Trump because they believed he would put an end to inflation and make their lives more affordable once more. In other words they voted for him in spite of who and what he is, not because of it.
Had there been better scrutiny of the candidates and their policies, this would have been less of a factor. Social media has had a further negative impact on a society that is so deeply divided that people now choose their preferred “reality” when it comes to what Americans call news. Our UK news media are bad enough, but we do have mass access to reasonably truthful news if we so choose. I do fear we are headed in the same direction as America though, and the likes of Musk obviously have global reach and influence.
I don’t think the comparison to bosses who favour sycophants really stands up.
For one, the stakes and the scale of damage are exponentially higher. .
Yes that's true.
Not making things up at all man!
You’ve missed the following comment from Trump in the same conversation …
”I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what."
People who have worked with Trump mentioned that when he suggested something is similar to an order. Therefore in this specific case, he was directing his cabinet on a way forward. Similar to Trump showing alternate map of the hurricane Dorian’s path.
Full story here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177.amp
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He didn't say 'Inject yourself with bleach to cure covid'. That one gets repeated so often by so many that people start to believe he did say that but it's simply not true.
Trump won twice by claiming he was going to make a lot of changes that would improve the country. He laid out exactly what he intended to do. Now whether or not he can do them or intends to do them is a different matter but there was a solid agenda of action that people could comprehend.
And the opposition barely did that at all, and the liberal agenda they did lay out was not one that was appealing to the swing voters. instead we just mostly got 'Trump is an idiot' and his lies countered with their lies. It wasn't good enough which is why we are where we are. Added to which some of the stuff they were pushing is just as crackpot as some of the stuff Trump was pushing, just a different kind of crackpot. Again, that sort of thing doesn't play well in the sticks where the elections get decided.
Had there been better scrutiny of the candidates and their policies, this would have been less of a factor. Social media has had a further negative impact on a society that is so deeply divided that people now choose their preferred “reality” when it comes to what Americans call news. Our UK news media are bad enough, but we do have mass access to reasonably truthful news if we so choose. I do fear we are headed in the same direction as America though, and the likes of Musk obviously have global reach and influence.
There's not much point having truthful information if there's no-one worth voting for. I didn't vote at the last one for that reason.
Added to which the percentage of our population that actually scrutinise issues in any detail is tiny. Might appear not to be the case from a middle class bubble (not saying that is you btw but you do see it) but it is a fact. So having access to accurate information isn't actually going to change anything. Most people vote with their heart not their heads.
Berni217
03-04-2025, 14:27
He didn't say 'Inject yourself with bleach to cure covid'. That one gets repeated so often by so many that people start to believe he did say that but it's simply not true.
Trump won twice by claiming he was going to make a lot of changes that would improve the country. He laid out exactly what he intended to do. Now whether or not he can do them or intends to do them is a different matter but there was a solid agenda of action that people could comprehend.
And the opposition barely did that at all, and the liberal agenda they did lay out was not one that was appealing to the swing voters. instead we just mostly got 'Trump is an idiot' and his lies countered with their lies. It wasn't good enough which is why we are where we are. Added to which some of the stuff they were pushing is just as crackpot as some of the stuff Trump was pushing, just a different kind of crackpot. Again, that sort of thing doesn't play well in the sticks where the elections get decided.
Where did I say that he said to inject yourself with bleach to cure covid? You are changing the meaning of my sentence so let me add what I said again: A man who wanted to cure Covid by injecting bleach in people’s lungs?
Suppose the doctors thought that Trump had a great idea or had followed through with his order, they would have tested disinfectant / bleach on people's body. My comment is still valid!
On another note ...
There is no denying of Trump being President and there is no value of a remake of the elections and play what ifs scenarios ... However, I think that the best way to counter Trump and his administration is by highlighting their mistakes and occupy the media space with their wrongs doing. And this is already working with.
* Elon Musk is toxic and loosing ground despite his money (e.g. Recent elections in Wisconsin)
* The US security is compromised (e.g. War plan leaks)
* Republicans in the Senat starting to speak up (e.g. Tariffs)
Where did I say that he said to inject yourself with bleach to cure covid? You are changing the meaning of my sentence so let me add what I said again: A man who wanted to cure Covid by injecting bleach in people’s lungs?
Suppose the doctors thought that Trump had a great idea or had followed through with his order, they would have tested disinfectant / bleach on people's body. My comment is still valid!
On another note ...
There is no denying of Trump being President and there is no value of a remake of the elections and play what ifs scenarios ... However, I think that the best way to counter Trump and his administration is by highlighting their mistakes and occupy the media space with their wrongs doing. And this is already working with.
* Elon Musk is toxic and loosing ground despite his money (e.g. Recent elections in Wisconsin)
* The US security is compromised (e.g. War plan leaks)
* Republicans in the Senat starting to speak up (e.g. Tariffs)
Sorry but earlier I posted the full text of what he said and at no point does he suggest injecting bleach into the lungs. As for any doctor taking that suggestion seriously, even if he had made it, that's just being ridiculous.
Agree with you about what is happening to counter Trump - if you go back to the start of the other Trump thread that started just after he was elected, you will see that is exactly what I outlined as the reasons why Trump, like all Presidents since WW2, will ultimately achieve very little of what he wants to do.
Personally I would have been fine with them sticking Mumbling Joe back in since although he was a rubbish President, I don't live there and the markets would not be so volatile.
Berni217
03-04-2025, 14:55
Sorry but earlier I posted the full text of what he said and at no point does he suggest injecting bleach into the lungs. As for any doctor taking that suggestion seriously, even if he had made it, that's just being ridiculous.
Agree with you about what is happening to counter Trump - if you go back to the start of the other Trump thread that started just after he was elected, you will see that is exactly what I outlined as the reasons why Trump, like all Presidents since WW2, will ultimately achieve very little of what he wants to do.
Personally I would have been fine with them sticking Mumbling Joe back in since although he was a rubbish President, I don't live there and the markets would not be so volatile.
I disagree with some of your statements but all I will say is this ... Even if Trump fails to implement his plans, he has already succeeded to cause significant and long term damages to his country both locally and globally.
I think I’m even more worried about the unintended consequences of Trump’s actions than I am about things working out exactly as he and his allies are planning. Either way, I’m sure he will continue create further trouble for millions of people outside of the US.
Berni217
03-04-2025, 15:42
I think I’m even more worried about the unintended consequences of Trump’s actions than I am about things working out exactly as he and his allies are planning. Either way, I’m sure he will continue create further trouble for millions of people outside of the US.
Agreed. He is also talking about a 3rd term.
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The only US President to have served more than two terms in office is Franklin D. Roosevelt. In fact he served four terms: two were centred on combating the Great Depression, and two were concerned with America's involvement during WW2.
So it would seem to be possible if there is an important enough need.
The only US President to have served more than two terms in office is Franklin D. Roosevelt. In fact he served four terms: two were centred on combating the Great Depression, and two were concerned with America's involvement during WW2.
So it would seem to be possible if there is an important enough need.
The 22nd amendment was passed in 1947 - after Roosevelt, prior to that there was no limit to the number of terms, but no-one had ever run for a third time until Roosevelt.
I'd put the chance of Trump getting the Constitution amended so he can serve a third term at zero.
Berni217
03-04-2025, 16:28
It is unlikely that he will be able to amend the constitution as he would need votes from democrats in the senate (at least).
He could however be the VP of JD Vance as president…
Anyway, Trump is getting old and does not seem very healthy … He should try to finish his current mandate first …
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The 22nd amendment was passed in 1947 - after Roosevelt, prior to that there was no limit to the number of terms, but no-one had ever run for a third time until Roosevelt.
I'd put the chance of Trump getting the Constitution amended so he can serve a third term at zero.
Ah - I didn't know that, but I agree it would be difficult for Trump to overturn the amendment. There must be a limit to what can be done simply through executive orders.
I can understand that as an approach, but isn’t it tempered by the “history” of the individual? Even the kindest soul would have to admit Trump has “form”. He also hires on the basis of loyalty and blind obedience, and fires whenever there is challenge or dissent. It’s therefore not so likely that folk around him would want to challenge or raise issues. On that basis, and my thoughts above, I’m not convinced it’s reasonable to assume there is method in his madness on this. YMMV.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExejdpNTNvbjJwa2Mwa2Z0ajYzMTZnNml iemRwM2ViNGp1ZjlrcGZiaSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3o7aCWJavAgtBzLWrS/giphy.gif
Lawrence001
03-04-2025, 19:51
My understanding is that the amendment says you can't be elected president for a third term. But if he did a deal with Vance to be his VP and then Vance stood down he could serve a third term as an unelected president.
My understanding is that the amendment says you can't be elected president for a third term. But if he did a deal with Vance to be his VP and then Vance stood down he could serve a third term as an unelected president.
To my mind the 12th Amendment specifically prohibits doing that.
''But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.''
I agree. I can’t even see the sympathetic audience he has in the form of the Supreme Court finding any wiggle room in the 12th amendment. There’s no way he can get over the high bar required for a constitutional amendment either. However, I do think he will find a way not to leave office in 4 years, assuming he’s still alive. That doesn’t necessarily mean it will be legal or peaceful, but I don’t think he will leave without force.
My understanding is that the amendment says you can't be elected president for a third term. But if he did a deal with Vance to be his VP and then Vance stood down he could serve a third term as an unelected president.
At this point,
based on current behaviour, lets be realistic and assume they dont give a fuck.
I think we have to assume he will try whatever he thinks will have the best chance of working. For instance he could attempt to get Red states to “decide” not to hold an election. There’s nothing stopping them doing this, and they then send their chosen (Trump supporting) electors to the electoral college. Now, it’s hard to argue he wouldn’t have been elected President, because the folk sent to the electoral college are called “electors”, but he wouldn’t have been a candidate in a presidential election, so could this arguably be portrayed as an alternative route to the Presidency? look at how crazy his last attempt was in this respect. Faced with the potential break-up of the United States or Civil War, might the Supreme Court not take the line of least resistance?
You can imagine the media onslaught for many months before the election. “The people want Trump, but Congress is standing in his way and denying their will”. They could even use the threat of such a tactic to force a constitutional amendment as the lesser of two evils. With Musk, Murdoch and loads of other media on their side, anything is possible because they have already proven that they can and will subvert the truth, distort reality and mobilise millions of Americans.
I’m sure there are loads of other crackpot, illegal and dangerous pathways to Trump remaining in office, and I just used the above as an illustration. Yes, it sounds ludicrous and unworkable, but who would’ve believed the scheme he tried to get away with last time?
Mikeandvan
05-04-2025, 09:41
The reason Trump got in. Nancy Pelosi speaking in 1996 about wildly divergent tariffs between China and the US, with the loss of manufacturing industries to China. 5 minute video with infographics, worth a watch.
Add to that in more recent years alienating the masses by promoting divisive ideologies like the rejection of the Western model of civilisation (rejection of the founding myths of America, or over here shame over the British empire) and trans ideology (itself a rejection of science and reason), and you have a recipe for the rejection of the status quo. To note I am not 'proud' of British imperialism either but see no point in letting complex histories decide current civic and political life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAyricurDKg
Great observations. I feel you are highlighting the “common ground” that really needs to be found in order to stop the likes of Trump and Farage dividing and ruling us all. Just a few observations from me, which explain my viewpoint. Others may see it differently but we need dialogue if we are to find common ground.
1. Immigration has been a big issue right across the West for decades, and it’s becoming a huge driver of voter behaviour. Firstly, we need immigration because we will have big pension bills to pay going forward. We also need to attract workers in areas where we are lacking sufficient resource. It’s dishonest of politicians to pretend otherwise. It’s also a very cheap way to attract talent because we haven’t paid to raise and educate anyone coming in to fulfil demand.
This means being selective in our immigration policy. It also means ensuring those coming in are willing and able to integrate and become “British”. This in turn means immigrants formally accepting British/Western values and learning English to a standard that allows them to read, write and speak it in daily life.
It’s also important to deal with asylum and illegal immigration effectively. Labour is rightly looking at “Right to a family life” because it’s been a thorn in the side of The Home Office when trying to deport many folk who shouldn’t be here, but have used the time to have a child, or find/bring a partner. If this means ECHR has to be tackled, then so be it. I don’t see why we couldn’t replace it with a British alternative, or even have “BCHR” take precedence over ECHR.
Finally, we need to fund faster processing of asylum applications. People claiming asylum aren’t allowed to work, and it’s costing more taxpayers money to sustain them than it would to fund more processing resource. I’d also like to see a quota for accepting asylum seekers, together with allowing offshore registration of applications, so that we don’t make people come here in order to claim.
2. We need to be honest with ourselves about the choice between protecting local communities and jobs vs cheaper goods and services. It’s a balancing act, because we can’t all buy everything online from China for a few pence, then complain that there are no cobblers shops, factories or British goods. Selective use of Tariffs is one tool in this balancing act, but it’s not wise to suddenly impose blanket tariffs across the globe, based on a crude formula designed to be understood by a 5 year-old.
3. Woke really needs to be reined in because it’s gone way too far. The nub of the problem as far as I’m concerned is this flawed notion of special treatment for anyone deemed to be disadvantaged or in a minority. “Positive Discrimination” will always be discrimination against someone else too. Imagine being a white actor these days and trying to land a role in a TV commercial: Statistically, you’d be at a huge disadvantage over a black actor, even if you had a better case on merit. It’s this perception of unfairness to the majority that creates further division and actually harms minorities and disadvantaged groups by creating hostility.
I genuinely feel that the Right needs to keep this resentment simmering, in order to attract votes and drive political narratives. When in power, they usually don’t try to solve the issue. They are happier by posturing and doing things that make them look tough, whilst maintaining the open sores to pick at. It’s a very destructive to society, and I really fear the Left across the world is failing to see the need to move into this common ground and occupy it. The Left needs to become the champion of the Many again, and not put favouring minorities ahead of this. If they don’t, the Right will end up with unfettered power and society will come apart at the seams.
Great observations. It’s probably highlighting the “common ground” that really needs to be found in order to stop the likes of Trump and Farage dividing and ruling us all. Just a few observations from me, which explain my viewpoint. Many may disagree, but dialogue but if it brings clarity to anyone or provokes thought, then that’s a good thing.
1. Immigration has been a big issue right across the West for decades, and it’s getting even more of a drive for voters. Firstly, we need immigration because we will have big pension bills to pay going forward. We also need to attract workers in areas where we are lacking sufficient resource. It’s dishonest of politicians to pretend otherwise. It’s also a very cheap way to attract talent because we haven’t paid to raise and educate anyone coming in to fulfil demand.
This means being selective in our immigration policy. It also means ensuring those coming in are willing and able to integrate and become “British”. This means formally accepting British/Western values and learning English to a standard that allows them to read, write and speak it in daily life.
It’s also important to deal with asylum and illegal immigration effectively. Labour is rightly looking at “Right to a family life” because it’s been a thorn in the side of The Home Office when trying to deport many folk who shouldn’t be here, but have used the time to have a child, or find/bring a partner. If this means ECHR has to be tackled, then so be it. I don’t see why we couldn’t replace it with a British alternative, or even have “BCHR” take precedence over ECHR.
Finally, we need to fund faster processing of asylum applications. People claiming asylum aren’t allowed to work, and it’s costing more taxpayers money to sustain them than it would to fund more processing resource. I’d also like to see a quota for accepting asylum seekers, together with allowing offshore registration of applications, so that we don’t make people come here in order to claim.
Edit: It would also help if Britain and others were more robust in challenging the pursuit of war in countries that Western warmongers decide they want to control or dictate to. Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza etc should’ve been condemned and challenged in the same way Ukraine was. If we avoided creating mass exoduses by reducing people’s homes to rubble, less of them would need to risk life and limb to come here.
2. We need to be honest with ourselves about the choice between protecting local communities and jobs vs cheaper goods and services. It’s a balancing act, because we can’t all buy everything online from China for a few pence, then complain that there are no cobblers shops, factories or British goods. Selective use of Tariffs is one tool in this balancing act, but it’s not wise to suddenly impose blanket tariffs across the globe, based on a crude formula designed to be understood by a 5 year-old.
3. Woke really needs to be reined in because it’s gone way too far. The nib of the problem as far as I’m concerned is this flawed notion of special treatment for anyone deemed to be disadvantaged or in a minority. “Positive Discrimination” will always be discrimination against someone too. Imagine being a white actor these days and trying to land a role in a TV commercial: Statistically, you’d be at a huge disadvantage over a black actor, even if you had a better case on merit. It’s this perception of unfairness to the majority that creates further division and actually harms minorities and disadvantage groups by creating hostility.
I genuinely feel that the Right needs to keep this resentment simmering, in order to attract votes and drive political narratives. When in power, they usually don’t try to solve the issue. They are happier by posturing and doing things that make them look tough, whilst maintaining the open sores of society to pick at. It’s very destructive to society, and I really fear the Left across the world is failing to see the need to move into this common ground and occupy it. The Left needs to become the champion of the Many again, and not put favouring minorities ahead of this. If they don’t, the Right will end up with unfettered power and society will come apart at the seams.
Nothing I disagree with there.
The annoying/frustrating thing is that we can’t vote for such an option…. And neither could Americans. We end up having to vote for one of two “package deals”, which is usually a case of voting against the one we see as the least palatable.
I might be wrong, but it seems like the sort of common ground most likely to attract a majority of votes. Maybe even begin to signal a return to consensus politics. And yet we never get anything like it offered on the “set menu” of Gemeral Election manifestos. No wonder so many people don’t vote.
Berni217
05-04-2025, 15:22
Great observations. I feel you are highlighting the “common ground” that really needs to be found in order to stop the likes of Trump and Farage dividing and ruling us all. Just a few observations from me, which explain my viewpoint. Others may see it differently but we need dialogue if we are to find common ground.
1. Immigration has been a big issue right across the West for decades, and it’s becoming a huge driver of voter behaviour. Firstly, we need immigration because we will have big pension bills to pay going forward. We also need to attract workers in areas where we are lacking sufficient resource. It’s dishonest of politicians to pretend otherwise. It’s also a very cheap way to attract talent because we haven’t paid to raise and educate anyone coming in to fulfil demand.
This means being selective in our immigration policy. It also means ensuring those coming in are willing and able to integrate and become “British”. This in turn means immigrants formally accepting British/Western values and learning English to a standard that allows them to read, write and speak it in daily life.
It’s also important to deal with asylum and illegal immigration effectively. Labour is rightly looking at “Right to a family life” because it’s been a thorn in the side of The Home Office when trying to deport many folk who shouldn’t be here, but have used the time to have a child, or find/bring a partner. If this means ECHR has to be tackled, then so be it. I don’t see why we couldn’t replace it with a British alternative, or even have “BCHR” take precedence over ECHR.
Finally, we need to fund faster processing of asylum applications. People claiming asylum aren’t allowed to work, and it’s costing more taxpayers money to sustain them than it would to fund more processing resource. I’d also like to see a quota for accepting asylum seekers, together with allowing offshore registration of applications, so that we don’t make people come here in order to claim.
2. We need to be honest with ourselves about the choice between protecting local communities and jobs vs cheaper goods and services. It’s a balancing act, because we can’t all buy everything online from China for a few pence, then complain that there are no cobblers shops, factories or British goods. Selective use of Tariffs is one tool in this balancing act, but it’s not wise to suddenly impose blanket tariffs across the globe, based on a crude formula designed to be understood by a 5 year-old.
3. Woke really needs to be reined in because it’s gone way too far. The nub of the problem as far as I’m concerned is this flawed notion of special treatment for anyone deemed to be disadvantaged or in a minority. “Positive Discrimination” will always be discrimination against someone else too. Imagine being a white actor these days and trying to land a role in a TV commercial: Statistically, you’d be at a huge disadvantage over a black actor, even if you had a better case on merit. It’s this perception of unfairness to the majority that creates further division and actually harms minorities and disadvantaged groups by creating hostility.
I genuinely feel that the Right needs to keep this resentment simmering, in order to attract votes and drive political narratives. When in power, they usually don’t try to solve the issue. They are happier by posturing and doing things that make them look tough, whilst maintaining the open sores to pick at. It’s a very destructive to society, and I really fear the Left across the world is failing to see the need to move into this common ground and occupy it. The Left needs to become the champion of the Many again, and not put favouring minorities ahead of this. If they don’t, the Right will end up with unfettered power and society will come apart at the seams.
I tend to focus on the bigger picture based on the history, hence not limited to the last 50 years …
1. What does it mean being British yesterday, today or tomorrow?
Immigration can be issues for all countries but the world was build by immigrants which brought their own cultures, values and blended to other cultures and values. Today’s British is a mix of Anglo-Saxon, Normans, Romans, Vikings and many others (from colonialism and more).
Besides, British people are also immigrants in other countries with various challenges. As an example, in some part of France there are many British who don’t even try to talk French or blend in. Deja vu?!
2. Your comment on positive discrimination makes me perplex but it is in line with many who have forgotten a lot about our history or see things through only one lens …
The UK's wealth and industrialisation were significantly influenced by its colonial history, with colonialism and the slave trade contributing to the growth of its capitalist economy and the enrichment of elite institutions and individuals.
I will not even start talking about the impact of slavery and colonialism on the many countries, populations which were impacted…. Their development, wealth over many generations.
How to repair 400 years of slavery & colonisation ?
It looks like to me that DEI policies towards minorities is the minimum that can be done to repair the centuries of devastation, systemic racism, poverty, economic inequity, violence, poor health, dispossession of lands and territories.!
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I tend to focus on the bigger picture based on the history, hence not limited to the last 50 years …
1. What does it mean being British yesterday, today or tomorrow?
Immigration can be issues for all countries but the world was build by immigrants which brought their own cultures, values and blended to other cultures and values. Today’s British is a mix of Anglo-Saxon, Normans, Romans, Vikings and many others (from colonialism and more).
Besides, British people are also immigrants in other countries with various challenges. As an example, in some part of France there are many British who don’t even try to talk French or blend in. Deja vu?!
2. Your comment on positive discrimination makes me perplex but it is in line with many who have forgotten a lot about our history or see things through only one lens …
The UK's wealth and industrialisation were significantly influenced by its colonial history, with colonialism and the slave trade contributing to the growth of its capitalist economy and the enrichment of elite institutions and individuals.
I will not even start talking about the impact of slavery and colonialism on the many countries, populations which were impacted…. Their development, wealth over many generations.
How to repair 400 years of slavery & colonisation ?
It looks like to me that DEI policies towards minorities is the minimum that can be done to repair the centuries of devastation, systemic racism, poverty, economic inequity, violence, poor health, dispossession of lands and territories.!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nothing I agree with there.
Berni217
05-04-2025, 15:47
Nothing I agree with there.
These are all facts! But you said before that we were not living in the same world, hence not surprised…
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For what it's worth I agree with Bernard. The facts are there: they may be unpalatable but ignoring them won't help.
The problem with trying to compensate for a colonial past is that the perpetrators don’t bear the cost, and the victims don’t get redress. Discriminating against a white person, to give a job to a black person purely because they are black, is unjust because it punishes people today for a past that even their ancestors may not have gained or lost from. Take the crazy idea in California that they would pay reparations for slavery. They planned to use taxpayer dollars to pay descendants of the victims, but because this was too onerous a task to evaluate, they simplified it to paying money to anyone who is black and resides there. Whether their ancestors were slaves or not, and even if they had just come to the USA a few years ago, they were still going to be paid money taken from taxpayers.
The same inequity is a concern with any “Positive” discrimination including things like all women shortlists for general election candidacy. It’s a very blunt instrument and only creates further inequity. More importantly, it creates huge resentment amongst those who are discriminated against, and those who identify with the majority who are on the receiving end of this new discrimination. In other words, it is actually counter-productive in terms of tackling racism, sexism and inequality. It ultimately leads to the election of the likes of Farage, Le Pen and Trump. It’s hard to see how these leaders will do anything other than stoke division.
Berni217
05-04-2025, 17:38
First of all, I don’t like the term of positive discrimination.
I prefer Diversity Equity and Inclusion. It has been demonstrated that companies /organisations who embrasse DEI are more successful than others because of their diversity of ideas resulted to tapping to a broader pool of talents vs staying in the same club.
People, including you seem to imply that giving a job to a black man/woman results in lowering the standard, which is not true.
For your information, I am a French black man who has have to fight 4 times more than an equivalent white man to achieve what I have been able to in my career. I have won every promotion the hard way when comparing to my white colleagues from Uni. Believe me, when you fail as a black man, they judge a lot harder than anyone else, hence you need to work harder and ensure that you will not go down!
In my last role reporting to a CEO of a large company, I have asked him explicitly whether I was hired because the company promoting DEI. His answer was without doubts that he wanted the best and there I was as the company was not a charity!
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These are all facts! But you said before that we were not living in the same world, hence not surprised…
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I'm not denying that slavery and colonialism happened. The part I don't agree with is that anything is owed by anyone to anyone as a result. Not money, not special treatment. Absolutely nothing.
Berni217
05-04-2025, 17:49
I'm not denying that slavery and colonialism happened. The part I don't agree with is that anything is owed by anyone to anyone as a result. Not money, not special treatment. Absolutely nothing.
Very easy to say this when you have not been negatively impacted and benefited. If 400 years of your history were wiped out, you would have other views.
As per my note above, I have never asked any reparation but I did have to work harder …
I have mentored many young professionals (men & women) over the years so they can be successful in life.
Have you heard of the Imposter Syndrome? Unfortunately a lot of people from minority suffers of this and one of the root causes is well identified !
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Mikeandvan
05-04-2025, 18:52
Great observations. I feel you are highlighting the “common ground” that really needs to be found in order to stop the likes of Trump and Farage dividing and ruling us all. Just a few observations from me, which explain my viewpoint. Others may see it differently but we need dialogue if we are to find common ground.
1. Immigration has been a big issue right across the West for decades, and it’s becoming a huge driver of voter behaviour. Firstly, we need immigration because we will have big pension bills to pay going forward. We also need to attract workers in areas where we are lacking sufficient resource. It’s dishonest of politicians to pretend otherwise. It’s also a very cheap way to attract talent because we haven’t paid to raise and educate anyone coming in to fulfil demand.
This means being selective in our immigration policy. It also means ensuring those coming in are willing and able to integrate and become “British”. This in turn means immigrants formally accepting British/Western values and learning English to a standard that allows them to read, write and speak it in daily life.
It’s also important to deal with asylum and illegal immigration effectively. Labour is rightly looking at “Right to a family life” because it’s been a thorn in the side of The Home Office when trying to deport many folk who shouldn’t be here, but have used the time to have a child, or find/bring a partner. If this means ECHR has to be tackled, then so be it. I don’t see why we couldn’t replace it with a British alternative, or even have “BCHR” take precedence over ECHR.
Finally, we need to fund faster processing of asylum applications. People claiming asylum aren’t allowed to work, and it’s costing more taxpayers money to sustain them than it would to fund more processing resource. I’d also like to see a quota for accepting asylum seekers, together with allowing offshore registration of applications, so that we don’t make people come here in order to claim.
2. We need to be honest with ourselves about the choice between protecting local communities and jobs vs cheaper goods and services. It’s a balancing act, because we can’t all buy everything online from China for a few pence, then complain that there are no cobblers shops, factories or British goods. Selective use of Tariffs is one tool in this balancing act, but it’s not wise to suddenly impose blanket tariffs across the globe, based on a crude formula designed to be understood by a 5 year-old.
3. Woke really needs to be reined in because it’s gone way too far. The nub of the problem as far as I’m concerned is this flawed notion of special treatment for anyone deemed to be disadvantaged or in a minority. “Positive Discrimination” will always be discrimination against someone else too. Imagine being a white actor these days and trying to land a role in a TV commercial: Statistically, you’d be at a huge disadvantage over a black actor, even if you had a better case on merit. It’s this perception of unfairness to the majority that creates further division and actually harms minorities and disadvantaged groups by creating hostility.
I genuinely feel that the Right needs to keep this resentment simmering, in order to attract votes and drive political narratives. When in power, they usually don’t try to solve the issue. They are happier by posturing and doing things that make them look tough, whilst maintaining the open sores to pick at. It’s a very destructive to society, and I really fear the Left across the world is failing to see the need to move into this common ground and occupy it. The Left needs to become the champion of the Many again, and not put favouring minorities ahead of this. If they don’t, the Right will end up with unfettered power and society will come apart at the seams.
Why is Farage dividing us while the likes of say Laurie Penny aren't? Immigration into Europe from Asia and Africa is off the scale, nothings going to fix that now, even if the will was there. Maps of the future will show Europe completely populated by African/Asian peoples, but the confusing thing will be that this was not an invasion, we welcomed them in, baffling. I also don't believe we need more workers - how can we with a surplus of around 7M of our own? (unemployed/so called disabled). I preferred pre Brexit when it comes to immigration, that's how I met last girlfriend, she's Spanish, can you imagine chatting up a bird in a burqa?
Yes we should leave ECHR, we've had common law for centuries.
Woke is an extremist ideology that's weirdly gone mainstream, the whole lot needs binning. I likely agree with some of it on empire etc, but I don't see how weaponising the past helps the present, of course it just divides us. Stick to reading history books at home, and bollocks to the weekend protests!! (always the same of course, Gaza, BLM, trans!).
Mikeandvan
05-04-2025, 18:57
The annoying/frustrating thing is that we can’t vote for such an option…. And neither could Americans. We end up having to vote for one of two “package deals”, which is usually a case of voting against the one we see as the least palatable.
I might be wrong, but it seems like the sort of common ground most likely to attract a majority of votes. Maybe even begin to signal a return to consensus politics. And yet we never get anything like it offered on the “set menu” of Gemeral Election manifestos. No wonder so many people don’t vote.
Cue the rise of populism. Unfortunately most of the populist parties appear to be very right wing, so not much appeal to everyone. Though immigration might just be enough for some people, I mean the rest hardly matters does it? Tinkering with the economy, ooooh, families will save £385 a year under Labour/Tories, big fuching deal!
Mikeandvan
05-04-2025, 18:59
I tend to focus on the bigger picture based on the history, hence not limited to the last 50 years …
1. What does it mean being British yesterday, today or tomorrow?
Immigration can be issues for all countries but the world was build by immigrants which brought their own cultures, values and blended to other cultures and values. Today’s British is a mix of Anglo-Saxon, Normans, Romans, Vikings and many others (from colonialism and more).
Besides, British people are also immigrants in other countries with various challenges. As an example, in some part of France there are many British who don’t even try to talk French or blend in. Deja vu?!
2. Your comment on positive discrimination makes me perplex but it is in line with many who have forgotten a lot about our history or see things through only one lens …
The UK's wealth and industrialisation were significantly influenced by its colonial history, with colonialism and the slave trade contributing to the growth of its capitalist economy and the enrichment of elite institutions and individuals.
I will not even start talking about the impact of slavery and colonialism on the many countries, populations which were impacted…. Their development, wealth over many generations.
How to repair 400 years of slavery & colonisation ?
It looks like to me that DEI policies towards minorities is the minimum that can be done to repair the centuries of devastation, systemic racism, poverty, economic inequity, violence, poor health, dispossession of lands and territories.!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I eagerly wait in line for my compo, being of Irish descent, Britain's oldest empire.
I will probably regret dipping my toe in here but positive discrimination is unlawful in the UK. There are positive actions that can be taken where a company has identified barriers to recruiting people from particular backgrounds, which needs to be evidenced. Government advice is that you need to be very careful in implementing positive actions to avoid legal action being taken against you. Taking positive action is voluntary and would presumably be implemented only by businesses who saw an advantage in doing so.
For me, if becoming British became a requirement of immigration and this meant renouncing existing nationality, religion or culture it would be a sad day.
As far as I am aware woke just means being aware of injustice unfortunately it has been weaponised and now seems to mean all things to all men (and women!)
I will probably regret dipping my toe in here but positive discrimination is unlawful in the UK. There are positive actions that can be taken where a company has identified barriers to recruiting people from particular backgrounds, which needs to be evidenced. Government advice is that you need to be very careful in implementing positive actions to avoid legal action being taken against you. Taking positive action is voluntary and would presumably be implemented only by businesses who saw an advantage in doing so.
For me, if becoming British became a requirement of immigration and this meant renouncing existing nationality, religion or culture it would be a sad day.
As far as I am aware woke just means being aware of injustice unfortunately it has been weaponised and now seems to mean all things to all men (and women!)
100%
First of all, I don’t like the term of positive discrimination.
I prefer Diversity Equity and Inclusion. It has been demonstrated that companies /organisations who embrasse DEI are more successful than others because of their diversity of ideas resulted to tapping to a broader pool of talents vs staying in the same club.
People, including you seem to imply that giving a job to a black man/woman results in lowering the standard, which is not true.
For your information, I am a French black man who has have to fight 4 times more than an equivalent white man to achieve what I have been able to in my career. I have won every promotion the hard way when comparing to my white colleagues from Uni. Believe me, when you fail as a black man, they judge a lot harder than anyone else, hence you need to work harder and ensure that you will not go down!
In my last role reporting to a CEO of a large company, I have asked him explicitly whether I was hired because the company promoting DEI. His answer was without doubts that he wanted the best and there I was as the company was not a charity!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Happy Berni you got the confirmation you'd hoped you'd get. :)
The good in People should be seen and should never be dependant on individual circumstances, the vibe be to be shared (be cool to each other, zero need for Religion) is always the Way
There are good people out there with the ability and heart to help others, never let anyone convice you there isn't.
Because there is.
A quizillion of them.
Look for the Helpers.
I eagerly wait in line for my compo, being of Irish descent, Britain's oldest empire.
Me too - I want compo for Cromwell, William Of Orange and the Potato Famine!
Plus being white working class I want redress for the 70 hour weeks my ancestors spent in the mines and mills on a subsistence wage - they weren't exactly living it up in colonial times,
French, Spanish, Dutch, Germans, Belgians, Portuguese, Russians, Japanese all had colonial empires too so are we also asking them to put their hands in their pockets? Plus all the African countries who enslaved their own people and sold them can chip in too.
The concept is absurd and is just designed to create division by playing on white middle-class guilt and people's lack of historical knowledge.
As far as I am aware woke just means being aware of injustice unfortunately it has been weaponised and now seems to mean all things to all men (and women!)
Originally it quite specifically referred to Afro-Americans who had become aware of their history, but the meaning of words can change or evolve.
Berni217
06-04-2025, 10:01
Happy Berni you got the confirmation you'd hoped you'd get. :)
The good in People should be seen and should never be dependant on individual circumstances, the vibe be to be shared (be cool to each other, zero need for Religion) is always the Way
There are good people out there with the ability and heart to help others, never let anyone convice you there isn't.
Because there is.
A quizillion of them.
Look for the Helpers.
Thanks Gary! ;)
In our societies, our main focus should be to provide equal opportunities for everyone to thrive and succeed, in spite of their race, gender, social background, … DEI is one tool amongst many to achieve this vision. This is also the definition of the American dream!
This thread seems to have been off topic while Trump is creating real damages in his country and around the world.
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Berni217
06-04-2025, 11:38
Love this one …
MAGDA = Make America Great Depression Again
https://youtu.be/VEle3pZRqmI?si=xlY7X5djXVkOy8YY
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Mikeandvan
06-04-2025, 11:57
Me too - I want compo for Cromwell, William Of Orange and the Potato Famine!
Plus being white working class I want redress for the 70 hour weeks my ancestors spent in the mines and mills on a subsistence wage - they weren't exactly living it up in colonial times,
French, Spanish, Dutch, Germans, Belgians, Portuguese, Russians, Japanese all had colonial empires too so are we also asking them to put their hands in their pockets? Plus all the African countries who enslaved their own people and sold them can chip in too.
The concept is absurd and is just designed to create division by playing on white middle-class guilt and people's lack of historical knowledge.
Exactly it wasn't our ancestors who reaped the huge profits of slavery or Imperialism, in fact the aristos didn't in some cases. I've heard it said that colonial India cost more to administrate than profits drawn. The idea that distant history should dictate contemporary life is indeed absurd and speaks to the victimhood culture of our times.
Mikeandvan
06-04-2025, 12:00
Thanks Gary! ;)
In our societies, our main focus should be to provide equal opportunities for everyone to thrive and succeed, in spite of their race, gender, social background, … DEI is one tool amongst many to achieve this vision. This is also the definition of the American dream!
This thread seems to have been off topic while Trump is creating real damages in his country and around the world.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What is DEI exactly? Promoting one black woman to the CEO of some big corp.? How is that going to help Black people in general? Obama made it to POTUS, did that inspire young black men to joining gangs? I mean if you want inspiration and role models, that's the highest post in the land.
Berni217
06-04-2025, 12:30
What is DEI exactly? Promoting one black woman to the CEO of some big corp.? How is that going to help Black people in general? Obama made it to POTUS, did that inspire young black men to joining gangs? I mean if you want inspiration and role models, that's the highest post in the land.
My comments were clear … DEI is not only for black people, it is for all.
Check this out:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity,_equity,_and_inclusion
This is my last post on this topic!
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You're confusing DEI (look it up if you don't know) with 'positive discrimination'. The two are entirely different.
It's all about selecting the right person for the job, irrespective of race, creed, colour or sex.
Oops - I see Berni has already answered your question by providing a comprehensive Wikipedia link.
Positive discrimination isn’t allowed since the equality act, but “positive action” is. However it’s still seeking to favour minorities and a cynic would say it’s positive discrimination with a new label. A further problem with all these initiatives is that they also devalue the achievements of members of minorities, because people come to believe none of them got there on merit, whether it’s true or not.
Democracy has to protect minorities, because there is a risk of permanent majorities becoming oppressors. Catholics in Northern Ireland and Palestinians in Israel spring to mind, as do German Jews under the Nazis.
The important thing to recognise is that this is always a balancing act. Go too far and you will be seen to be favouring the minority and neglecting the majority who elected you and fund the country. This is the essence of Trumpism and the ascendency of right-wing populism today. The majority feel left out because the Left are perceived as focusing on the rights of minorities, asylum seekers, benefit claimants and trans people. They see their own living standards under threat and their culture and way of life devalued and threatened.
Right-wing populists feed on this perception and stoke division. They hark back to a mythical “better” past and people latch onto it because it’s easier to remember a positive past than it is to imagine a better future. They also portray wealth as a zero-sum game, whereby it’s the “scroungers” and “parasites” who are taking away ordinary people’s wealth. Oddly, they never seem to mention redistributing the increasing wealth of the CEOs, the stockbrokers and the billionaires in their narrative.
The antidote isn’t hard to see. The Left needs to ensure it focuses primarily on improving the lives of “the many”. It also needs to be explicit that this is exactly what it is doing. It can still protect minorities without pandering to them or favouring them over the majority who elect governments. In Britain today, this means focusing on representing working people and those who have earned their retirement. It will mean disaffection amongst some voters, but it is necessary in order to halt the rise of political forces who will do far more harm to the minorities in question.
BTW I don’t see this as thread drift because it’s about trying to understand why Trump got elected and make sure we in Britain don’t end up repeating the mistakes of the Democrats. Right wing populism is a real threat and I want to do all I can to avoid its rise here. If that means trying to understand the reasons why so many voted for an evil, lying sociopath who threatens the entire global order, then so be it. As I said, not all of them are Maga devotees. Most were unable to vote for an alternative that they felt represented their wishes and needs.
Berni217
06-04-2025, 17:33
Exactly it wasn't our ancestors who reaped the huge profits of slavery or Imperialism, in fact the aristos didn't in some cases. I've heard it said that colonial India cost more to administrate than profits drawn. The idea that distant history should dictate contemporary life is indeed absurd and speaks to the victimhood culture of our times.
All incorrect and not based on facts!
A good read on the estimated benefits of slavery to UK. Colonialism not included.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66596790
Obviously it is unlikely that UK would pay £18 Trillions (almost 5 times the country GDP), however it is a necessary exercice to understand the scale as UK and African’s economies would have been very different today without the slave trade. Hence apologies were welcomed, even when overdue!
Someone here mentioned that African countries were themselves having slaves. This was often tied to debts, crimes and warfare. But no comparison to the industrial volume & scale of the transatlantic slave trade with 12.5 millions of young Africans kidnapped and put on ships.
The Transatlantic slave trade had a devastating impact on Africa, causing depopulation, economic stagnation, increased warfare, and the erosion of social structures, with long-lasting consequences that continue to affect the continent today!
I am a sucker for history and facts, which explain a lot of challenges experienced today and may provide some keys for future solutions while preventing making the errors of the past!
Mikeandvan
06-04-2025, 19:58
DEI is all bollocks anyway, as I said appointing the odd transgender lesbian POC to a top corporate position ain't gonna 'end racism', or any other ism, largely because racism doesn't exist anymore in the West.
Pigmy Pony
06-04-2025, 22:38
DEI is all bollocks anyway, as I said appointing the odd transgender lesbian POC to a top corporate position ain't gonna 'end racism', or any other ism, largely because racism doesn't exist anymore in the West.
So when did that happen? I didn't get the memo.
Mikeandvan
07-04-2025, 05:50
So when did that happen? I didn't get the memo.
Around the early 90s I'd say, in the UK anyway, we've always been a tolerant society. Germany had Adolf Hitler, we had Alf Garnet. OK, I cherry picked there.
Vinyl Rules!
07-04-2025, 08:36
The current environment we’re having to endure here in the USA makes me ashamed of my citizenship.
I know nothing of UK politics, but it seems to me that UK politicians are relatively sane, educated, and generally ethical individuals.
I envy the British. :cool:
Pete The Cat
07-04-2025, 08:37
A specific practical point. Trade agreements are complex things and in some cases take years to negotiate. I appreciate that necessity is the mother of invention but I don't imagine that any country has the resources to simultaneously negotiate dozens of trade agreements with other countries in short order. My point isn't political, merely logistical.
Patrick Dixon
07-04-2025, 09:42
I know nothing of UK politics, but it seems to me that UK politicians are relatively sane, educated, and generally ethical individuals.
If only that were true. Fortunately (for the rest of the world) the UK's influence on the world's economy and defence is not quite as significant as it once was.
Vinyl Rules!
07-04-2025, 16:11
Our Mango Mobster wouldn’t know a Bible even if it crawled up his corpulent arse.:spank:
Berni217
07-04-2025, 20:03
Our Mango Mobster wouldn’t know a Bible even if it crawled up his corpulent arse.:spank:
:) Welcome Tim!
Your comments will be welcomed on this thread.
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Our Mango Mobster
:lol: - I don't know if you invented that name, but I like it!
wouldn’t know a Bible even if it crawled up his corpulent arse.:spank:
One about this size would be good... If we can find one with some gnarly metal hinges, so much the better!!!
https://mbird.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/massiveoldbible-e1597155146684-500x327.jpg
Mikeandvan
08-04-2025, 21:30
Trump goes ballistic, tariffs on China up to 104%, I wonder when consumers in the US will start seeing a rise in prices?
All other countries should unite against Trump and his tariffs. He’s using divide and conquer and they are falling for it. It reminds me of the appeasement of Hitler. Take him down before he becomes an even bigger threat.
All other countries should unite against Trump and his tariffs. He’s using divide and conquer and they are falling for it.
How do you propose that should happen?
(There are really no parallels at all with Hitler).
Berni217
09-04-2025, 14:02
Why is US still a superpower today? The below only focuses on the economic side of things ...
(1) They are number 2 in the world for manufacturing behind China
(2) They are #1 globally for services (Google, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, AirBnB, and others) who pay very low taxes in EU
(3) By being stable and a trusted partner, all the other countries were willing to invest in USA , buy bonds and used the US Dollar as the go-to currency.
By focusing only on (1), Trump has bigger issues to come, which may result in a total collapse of his government as follows …
- Countries will fight back with more tariffs (like China) and will not buy made in USA (like Canada) (1). Their calculation errors based on a formula that economists cannot vouch for will not help here. Example the average EU tax on US goods is less than 2% vs 39% claimed taking into account any trade deficits. Non sense !
- Consumer goods prices will explode as well as inflation (1).
- Countries will start taxing USA for their services (2). EU is already contemplating doing this, which will result in the Tech companies loosing billions!
- In over 2 months, Trump managed to turn almost all countries against USA, hence losing trust of most of their allies (3). It is likely that countries will stop investing in the US economy and sell their bonds. The bond market is starting to shift!
Fights (verbal) have already started between Elon Musk and Peter Navarro on tariffs. A commercial war is starting with China following the 104% USA tariffs
It can only get worse… until Trump’s government is on the edge of collapsing like a house of cards and people being fired (never Trump’s fault of course).
We need to wait and see the movie unfolds.
Country leading the Global manufacturing industry:
1. China 31.6%
2. United States 15.9%
3. Japan 6.5%
4. Germany 4.8%
5. India 2.9%
6. South Korea 2.7%
7. Russia 1.8%
8. Italy 1.8%
9. Mexico 1.7%
10. France 1.6%
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How do you propose that should happen?
(There are really no parallels at all with Hitler).
I’d suggest that as many as possible refuse to negotiate 1-1 with the USA and just let them stew.
I’d propose that countries/blocs co-ordinate their strategies for starters. That could be in terms of where and at what level to set reciprocal tariffs, or even striking trade deals to offset the effects of US tariffs and bypass their economy wherever possible. By working together, others could both minimise the effect of US tariffs and also maximise the effect of retaliatory action upon the US economy.
No parallels between Trump and Hitler? You keep on believing that and continue seeking to normalise his behaviour and we’ll see who ends up on the wrong side of history on that one.
Trump Magazine
Trump Vodka
Trump Airlines
Trump Steaks
Trump Water
Trump Mortgage
Trump Travel
Trump The Game
Trump Casinos
Trump University
Trump Foundation
The United States economy
1) Do something autocratic
2) Wait to see how people react
3) If they don't push back hard enough, carry on
4) If they do push back hard enough, "pause" it
5) Illegally consolidate more power
6) Repeat
I’d suggest that as many as possible refuse to negotiate 1-1 with the USA and just let them stew.
I’d propose that countries/blocs co-ordinate their strategies for starters. That could be in terms of where and at what level to set reciprocal tariffs, or even striking trade deals to offset the effects of US tariffs and bypass their economy wherever possible. By working together, others could both minimise the effect of US tariffs and also maximise the effect of retaliatory action upon the US economy.
No parallels between Trump and Hitler? You keep on believing that and continue seeking to normalise his behaviour and we’ll see who ends up on the wrong side of history on that one.
I am not 'seeking to normalise his behaviour' - no idea what I've said that would give you that idea.
Obviously he's not a 'normal' President, he wasn't last time either.
I think Godwinising Trump is lazy but I suppose everyone has heard of Hitler. Possibly a student of history might be able to come up with a better historical parallel.
In the meantime I see he has unsurprisingly rowed back somewhat, S&P now 9.5 percent up.
What is "Godwinising". Who was Godwin in this regard? It's not a term I have heard of.
Mikeandvan
09-04-2025, 22:44
Michael McFaul on Twitter
"Trump retreated. Please don’t try to spin this as some kind of “art of the deal” brilliance. It wasn’t. “Trump drops tariffs to 10% for most countries, hits China harder”
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/09/trump-announces-90-day-tariff-pause-for-at-least-some-countries.html
WOStantonCS100
10-04-2025, 01:33
...and yet things are going terribly for all those posturing and whining and crying "orange man bad" and "orange man bad's administration bad" and cheering the work of Soros funded protest organizers... things are going, horribly
https://rumble.com/v6rvtbr-ep-3615b-trump-sets-the-timeline-for-ds-treasonous-acts-he-will-have-the-fi.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp
https://rumble.com/v6rvarh-4.9.25-steel.-tech.-america-was-for-sale.-no-more.-china-losing-comms-every.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp
https://qagg.news/
WYKYK
:lol:
WOStantonCS100
10-04-2025, 01:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFZXr-YVTWc&list=RDNSwFZXr-YVTWc&start_radio=1
What is "Godwinising". Who was Godwin in this regard? It's not a term I have heard of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.
Pigmy Pony
10-04-2025, 07:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFZXr-YVTWc&list=RDNSwFZXr-YVTWc&start_radio=1
Yeah I've seen it before, can't sit through it again. I'd rather watch these press briefings "live", in the vain hope that I might get an unedited view of someone chucking a coffee mug at that stupid chirping face. Though I doubt it would ever happen, I'm sure her questioners will have been carefully vetted.
I am not 'seeking to normalise his behaviour' - no idea what I've said that would give you that idea.
Obviously he's not a 'normal' President, he wasn't last time either.
I think Godwinising Trump is lazy but I suppose everyone has heard of Hitler. Possibly a student of history might be able to come up with a better historical parallel.
In the meantime I see he has unsurprisingly rowed back somewhat, S&P now 9.5 percent up.
I’m sorry: That didn’t come across in the way I’d meant it to. Let me see if I can explain what I actually had in my head that pushed those words out :) I may still miss the mark, but this was my impression.
Some people see Trump as a huge threat on many fronts. There are many comparisons to Hitler out there, both from Journalists and historians. I can see parallels on many fronts and I’d say I’m mostly “in this camp”. I really don’t regard it as “lazy” to do this. I see it as pointing to an example of not tackling a dangerous world leader until it was too late, and this is a risk too far. Of course, there are other historical parallels out there. I’ve read pieces on his similarities to Caligula, Nero and Genesis Khan. I guess the main thing I take away from all of these is that they were all despots, and posed a grave risk to millions. I’ve yet to see any comparisons to Gandhi, for instance.
The impression I get from your posts is that you see him saying lots of crazy stuff and threatening all sorts, but you have far fewer concerns about him actually following through on many of these. You also have some confidence on the checks and balances reining him in on the more extreme things he actually does try.
I’d far rather have the future prove me wrong, but the risks of him breaking so many things that he causes mayhem across the world are so great, that I feel it’s dangerous to downplay the risks on the basis that he might not follow through, or he will be stopped by Congress or The Supreme Court.
Part of my concern comes from the fact that I do believe he’s mentally unhinged, and he has more control of his party than any modern day President. He also has an unprecedented majority on the Supreme Court, with at least 4 (and probably 5) judges displaying a primary loyalty to him over the Constitution. He also has unprecedented support from the media, so a free press can’t function as it should. He’s shown a huge propensity to lie and break the law. Also to put himself above the law and demand loyalty to him over The Constitution.
My reference to “normalising” his behaviour was meant to be set in the context of his propensity and ability to do lasting worldwide harm if left unchecked. My impression is that you see him changing little more than previous incumbents, whereas I see him likely to wreck the global economy, annexe nations, seize territory, infiltrate all the arms of the state, demonise minorities, divide society, promote similar leaders across The World, refuse to leave office, de-stabilise the world order, damage the planet and set us on a path to extinction.
Of course, you could say he’s done none of these yet, but I’d say there are more than enough warning signs already, and it’s not sensible to wait until he does lasting damage before making a judgement.
Any comparisons with Hitler will inevitably be comparing actual events with his future potential, but there were plenty people who didn’t see the threat he posed until had had years to consolidate power. My main point was that it would be dangerous to do so with Trump, and uniting against him at the earliest stage was the safest option. He has also lied and attempted to remain in power illegally. Then there is the stirring of hatred through his lies about this which has divided America and could ultimately break it.
I know you study history, so I’m sure you are aware of the fact that many initially saw Hitler as a laughing-stock, and a figure of ridicule. Others assumed he wouldn’t seek or be able to threaten the entire world. It’s still very early days in this administration and Trump has already said and done enough to make many of conclude he’s as big a potential danger as Hitler was. It’s within that context that I have concerns about anyone downplaying the risks, and nations seeking to appease him.
I’ve corrected a few typos, but I didn’t have the heart to deny AOS members the pleasure of “Genesis Khan”.
I hope I’ve answered more clearly, even if it did take me ages. Some of us still have bloody jobs to do, you know!
Part of my concern comes from the fact that I do believe he’s mentally unhinged, and he has more control of his party than any modern day President. He also has an unprecedented majority on the Supreme Court, with at least 4 (and probably 5) judges displaying a primary loyalty to him over the Constitution. He also has unprecedented support from the media, so a free press can’t function as it should. He’s shown a huge propensity to lie and break the law. Also to put himself above the law and demand loyalty to him over The Constitution.
My reference to “normalising” his behaviour was meant to be set in the context of his propensity and ability to do lasting worldwide harm if left unchecked. My impression is that you see him changing little more than previous incumbents, whereas I see him likely to wreck the global economy, annexe nations, seize territory, infiltrate all the arms of the state, demonise minorities, divide society, promote similar leaders across The World, refuse to leave office, de-stabilise the world order, damage the planet and set us on a path to extinction.
Of course, you could say he’s done none of these yet, but I’d say there are more than enough warning signs already, and it’s not sensible to wait until he does lasting damage before making a judgement.
.
Okay I'll single out these two paragraphs as they probably encompass pretty much all of the 'Trump fears'.
'mentally unhinged' -
This is an emotionally charged description and I'm not sure is in the lexicon of Psychology. But running with it, is he as unhinged as Hitler? I would have to say no, by several orders of magnitude. Is he as sane as I would like a POTUS to be? No.
'he has more control of his party than any modern day President.' -
Not sure how this can be quantified. I'd say they are likely to stick with him most of the way but there will be limits, which won't be apparent as that will all be fought out in camera. Suspect some of that has already occurred with tariffs.
'He also has an unprecedented majority on the Supreme Court, with at least 4 (and probably 5) judges displaying a primary loyalty to him over the Constitution.' _
he did get lucky last time getting to appoint two or was it three SCJs. But once appointed they cannot be touched so they have no reason to be loyal come what may. Also the great thing about the Constitution is that it is set in stone. You can interpret round it to some degree but an SCJ cannot change it or over-rule it.
'He also has unprecedented support from the media, so a free press can’t function as it should' -
is to misunderstand the purpose of the media which is to make money for its shareholders the same as any company. The concept of the press as being an unbiased source of truthful information has no precedent in history. I notice this misconception does seem to be mainly held by those with left-wing leanings. Funny enough my media stream thing on Windows daily offers up at least half a dozen articles attacking Trump. I don't think this is a valid point.
'He’s shown a huge propensity to lie and break the law' -
He has, but neither is that unusual for a politician. Maybe a little more unusual for one who makes it to POTUS, but then Nixon?
'Also to put himself above the law and demand loyalty to him over The Constitution. '
Lacks substantiation. Come back to me when he starts demanding schoolchildren pledge allegiance to him and not the USA.
'I see him likely to wreck the global economy, annexe nations, seize territory, infiltrate all the arms of the state, demonise minorities, divide society, promote similar leaders across The World, refuse to leave office, de-stabilise the world order, damage the planet and set us on a path to extinction. ' -
okay so this is the real meat of it.
Wreck the global economy -
well we have already seen him row back on his tariffs. He didn't do that on a whim. Checks and balances.
Annexe nations/ seize territory -
absolutely no chance of that happening. You don't really think he is serious about Greenland do you?
'Infiltrate all arms of the state' -
in what way? There is always some political struggle in departments of state. Some say that they are already infiltrated by the left wing which I would somewhat agree with. But without specifics hard to know what exactly we are talking about here.
'Demonise minorities' -
I've already pointed out that Obama holds the record for deporting illegals and I don't recall anyone up in arms about that. I support what he is doing in terms of dismissing special rights for trans and the related nonsense so you're never going to get agreement from me there. Do I think he's a racist? No.
'Refuse to leave office' -
we had this last time, I said it was nonsense, it turned out to be nonsense and it will again.
'Destabilise the world order' -
well there has to be an order to destabilise. Need more specifics
'Damage the planet' -
no I don't think so but then I'm not a 'climate alarmist.'
Would I like to see a more typical President who plods along doing little or nothing? Yes I would. They are the best kinds of politician anywhere. Do I think we're all doomed? No.
Finally, even supposing I agreed on all your points, what do you propose we do about it? Calling him names on an internet forum isn't going to be effective. He's already been elected, he can't be elected again, so I don't think there is an option other than to strap in for the ride. I'm certainly not going to go on some idiotic demo.
I can’t really see you on a demo, but if you ever change your mind, I’d happily make you a placard, as long as pics were guaranteed. You do have all this spare time now :lol:
Seriously, nothing we do or say on an internet forum is likely to change anything, but the thread does seem to attract posts, so can’t be all bad. People also have a vote in the UK elections, and Trump has loomed large here already. If highlighting the threat Trump poses will make anyone think twice about UK politicians who actually helped to get him elected, then I feel it’s worthwhile for this reason alone.
I could reply in detail to all the points you raise above, as I disagree with every single one and could cite reasons and evidence for that. I’m not sure it would do anything at all to change your mind and your assessment though. I strongly doubt it would, so the incentive isn’t there. I’m not even attached to being proven right because only someone truly mentally unhinged would wish that price upon the world just so they could be vindicated. I’ll simply addresss your first point above and suggest anyone at all interested in Trump’s mental state to read the book linked below. Its observations are actually far more revealing today than they were when it was written. The fact that the authors took such a dramatic step in producing and publishing the book would indicate they too se a significant threat.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6145972/#:~:text=In%20The%20Dangerous%20Case%20of,be%20ass essed%20from%20observed%20behaviour.
I am sure other folk reading can decide for themselves on all of the above, and whether or not they see Trump as a huge threat, a saviour of civilisation or just another fat old rich bloke with a love of hyperbole.
I could reply in detail to all the points you raise above, as I disagree with every single one and could cite reasons and evidence for that. I’m not sure it would do anything at all to change your mind and your assessment though. I strongly doubt it would, so the incentive isn’t there.
Well, you wrote a detailed post which I thought deserved a detailed response. In simple terms, I think we agree there's a threat level, we just don't agree what that level is. :)
Yes, that sums it up. Maybe I should’ve written a shorter post saying that :lol:
Seriously I do appreciate your replies …. And envy your recent retirement at 56! I just felt that there comes a point where it’s not going to help anybody to delve any more deeply when responding. It’s such a big topic you could even write a book about it :lol:
Agree this discussion won't change anything, but at least your arguments, pro and con, are far more eloquent and articulate than those of the originator of this thread.
Yes, that sums it up. Maybe I should’ve written a shorter post saying that :lol:
Seriously I do appreciate your replies …. And envy your recent retirement at 56! I just felt that there comes a point where it’s not going to help anybody to delve any more deeply when responding. It’s such a big topic you could even write a book about it :lol:
My retirement isn't that great, only possible by living on £800 a month. If I'd just done another 2 years at work that would have been £1200/month but it was pissing me off too much.
Pigmy Pony
10-04-2025, 15:00
Agree this discussion won't change anything, but at least your arguments, pro and con, are far more eloquent and articulate than those of the originator of this thread.
Eloquence not needed when you have You Tube and the Bible ;)
+1 about the discussion not changing anything. But this thread does attract some attention, in a similar way to daily news updates on TV. Though not qualified to contribute anything informed or meaningful, I do like to occasionally air my contempt for Trump and his cronies.
While I wouldn't want him to fail in spectacular fashion (that would be bad for everybody), I also don't want his actions to be vindicated (his head's already too big). I just want him to go away (I don't care how) and for the status quo to be restored. Perhaps with a few tweaks :)
My retirement isn't that great, only possible by living on £800 a month. If I'd just done another 2 years at work that would have been £1200/month but it was pissing me off too much.
We have lots of common ground on that one: I’d rather live on less and be free earlier too. I’m still about 18 months away from being able to give up and have a subsistence lifestyle through to state pension age. So many people don’t even make it that far, so I’ll take the bird in the hand at the first opportunity. I just wish I’d bought a shed-load of gold, back when Covid was about to hit. Didn’t have the cojones to take even that small risk I’m afraid.
We have lots of common ground on that one: I’d rather live on less and be free earlier too. I’m still about 18 months away from being able to give up and have a subsistence lifestyle through to state pension age. So many people don’t even make it that far, so I’ll take the bird in the hand at the first opportunity. I just wish I’d bought a shed-load of gold, back when Covid was about to hit. Didn’t have the cojones to take even that small risk I’m afraid.
The way I saw it I wasn't spending hardly any money when I was working - I don't buy much except hi-fi and I'd already pretty much stopped doing that as I already have too much. So what was the point carrying on when I wasn't enjoying it anymore, and it was feasible to quit?
I did 5 years as a student and 2 years unemployed in the late 80s, early 90s so I've got lots of practice in living on very little.
The freedom has to have a value. Like I spent a couple of hours earlier stood out on the front in the sunshine, just shooting the breeze with the neighbours.
Much better than sat in the office with someone asking 'Have you done those invoices yet?' every ten minutes while I'm stuck on the phone with some customer that's breaking my balls about someone else's cock-up :)
Mikeandvan
10-04-2025, 19:26
What did Nixon do that was illegal? All the Watergate stuff was really nothing, he was just covering up.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been skint in the past too, and I think I’d adjust pretty easily. I don’t do anything much apart from a bit of DIY. Don’t smoke or drink and don’t have expensive tastes in food. No kids to worry about inheritance either. Heck, I don’t even spend money on hifi or music anymore, so my lifestyle is subsistence level anyway. My only vice is too much eBay shopping on stuff I don’t need and can’t store. I only do that to unwind from work.
It’s not my primary worry about him, but I really hope Trump doesn’t cause a major financial crash that leads to me having to work longer and getting a vastly reduced pension. I’d hardly be alone, but that wouldn’t be much consolation.
Mikeandvan
10-04-2025, 19:30
From the Wapo:
Trump directs Justice Dept. to probe officials who opposed him in first term
The targeting of former cybersecurity official Chris Krebs and former homeland security official Miles Taylor reflects the president’s escalating quest for retribution.
Nowhere hear Hitler yet, but those autocratic tendencies are showing themselves. And of course, there's that Patel prat in the FBI wot wrote about a book about dear leader, yeh I still can't get over that one.:lol:
WOStantonCS100
10-04-2025, 19:56
Agree this discussion won't change anything, but at least your arguments, pro and con, are far more eloquent and articulate than those of the originator of this thread.
The great thing about being factual is that the originator of this thread needs neither to be eloquent nor more articulate. Or, do you still not comprehend the title of the thread? Which part of the title is not fact?
Donald Trump IS again the President of the United States and no amount of pontificating or damning anyone with faint praise (or open contempt) will change that. Neither will it change the fact that the vast majority of Americans voted for that outcome and are more than pleased with how things are going including the tariffs. Oh, you thought only Americans should have to suffer tariffs and trade blocks. Got it. Life comes at you quick. I love the knee-jerk comments when Trump has literally been speaking out on this topic publicly, on TV no less, since 1988!! :lol: Blinders do not aid in the navigation of a place you have never been before.
Eloquence not needed when you have You Tube and the Bible ;)
+1 about the discussion not changing anything. But this thread does attract some attention, in a similar way to daily news updates on TV. Though not qualified to contribute anything informed or meaningful, I do like to occasionally air my contempt for Trump and his cronies.
While I wouldn't want him to fail in spectacular fashion (that would be bad for everybody), I also don't want his actions to be vindicated (his head's already too big). I just want him to go away (I don't care how) and for the status quo to be restored. Perhaps with a few tweaks :)
If you know the Bible, you know that God used many ineloquent persons for His purpose. YouTube is for people who subjugate themselves to it. Thus, its use here, knowing most simply write off other sources. (Explaining this gets old but I soldier on. :lol:)
The status quo is gone. Americans have had enough of status quo (and paying for it). You, my friend, are wishing on a star that does not exist. The new normal is here (it’s just not the new normal that those who were screaming for a new normal had in mind. :lol: Ironic and hilarious). It’s a bit daft to think things will go back to normal if he goes away (and it doesn’t matter how). The classic mistake some people and the media consistently make is thinking Trump is a solitary entity, operating all the controls. :lol: No, my friend, there is an entire like-minded administration and network of people behind him and countless other citizens who are and will step up to the plate. I recommend salve if it burns.
At one time I was a perpetual student, only starting full time employment at age 27. I worked in the research division of what was then the largest electronics company in the UK.
The salary wasn't that large, the argument being that the interesting work was compensation enough. I had always intended to retire at 60, and at one time thought it might be possible to retire at 55. However, due to the vagaries of the stock market, my investments did not grow fast enough.
My enjoyment of the work more or less ceased when I was 55. I had reached the position of Principle Scientific Research Officer and was unlikely to go further - I was treading water.
Then out of the blue, the company decided to 'shed heads' and were looking for volunteers for redundancy. The package was very generous - I applied and was accepted, so I 'retired' before my 57th birthday..
Ironically I was asked if I would be interested in being retained as a consultant. In doing so I would effectively double my salary, but to be conscientious and do a good job, I would have to put in twice the hours, so I declined.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been skint in the past too, and I think I’d adjust pretty easily. I don’t do anything much apart from a bit of DIY. Don’t smoke or drink and don’t have expensive tastes in food. No kids to worry about inheritance either. Heck, I don’t even spend money on hifi or music anymore, so my lifestyle is subsistence level anyway. My only vice is too much eBay shopping on stuff I don’t need and can’t store. I only do that to unwind from work.
It’s not my primary worry about him, but I really hope Trump doesn’t cause a major financial crash that leads to me having to work longer and getting a vastly reduced pension. I’d hardly be alone, but that wouldn’t be much consolation.
I kept back enough cash to last me 5 years and stuck the rest into pensions, shares and shares ISA. If it makes nothing I should still have enough to last the next 5 years to state pension - if I get that far - but if it loses money then I'll be working again for at least some of that. So I could also do without the financial upheavals.
But it is what it is. Never worried about money when I didn't have any, not going to start now when I have.
Mikeandvan
10-04-2025, 22:29
From the FT: Trump’s legal attacks threaten the very basis of sound investment
https://www.ft.com/content/cc498e08-7765-45ee-bfa3-5520e754f325#comments-anchor
Mikeandvan
10-04-2025, 22:48
If the overall aim of the Trump tariffs is to reshore American manufacturing, then any jobs that do return will be a case of too little too late. The aim is noble, but the execution is a fiasco, Trump doesn't have anywhere near the fortitude or foresight of someone like Roosevelt to carry this off, he is a clown, a tawdry wheeler dealer. It's early days yet, but the inevitable result of tariffs will be pain for the American consumer, not to mention businesses having to pay more for raw materials from China - 125% more now (perhaps 150% by tomorrow). Of course, Trump will call whatever results as a win, as will his hardcore base of all American idiots. Those who voted for him without the sycophancy will however face disillusion as they see their pensions and investments shrink and prices rise.
The classic mistake some people and the media consistently make is thinking Trump is a solitary entity, operating all the controls. :lol: No, my friend, there is an entire like-minded administration and network of people behind him and countless other citizens who are and will step up to the plate.
That is probably the most accurate comment you have made to date, readily exampled by the short selling and stock market manipulation Trump and his mates have achieved for their personal gain, facilitated by Trump’s inept application or retraction of global tariffs. Simply, it is nothing more than total corruption!
The rest that you say is just your propaganda and your selective nonsense interpretation of Old Testament and Christian scripture.
Welcome to the Republic of Gilead!
WOStantonCS100
11-04-2025, 03:30
That is probably the most accurate comment you have made to date, readily exampled by the short selling and stock market manipulation Trump and his mates have achieved for their personal gain, facilitated by Trump’s inept application or retraction of global tariffs. Simply, it is nothing more than total corruption!
The rest that you say is just your propaganda and your selective nonsense interpretation of Old Testament and Christian scripture.
Welcome to the Republic of Gilead!
Four lines of nothingness with no receipts to back it up. Your credibility is doing backstrokes in the karzi. You're going to have to do better.
Now, I suppose you'll tell everyone this verse does not exist, "And Moses said unto the Lord, “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore nor since Thou hast spoken unto Thy servant; but I am slow of speech and of a slow tongue.”
And I suppose you'll tell us this interview never took place:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGtK_rdnI6A
One might argue that selective nonsense is assuming that someone who is, against all odds and lawfare, once again POTUS and like it or not, for all intents of purposes, leading the world around by the nose and causing panic in foes and "so called friends", leaving them no choice but to be reactionary, is inept. Maybe you do have more faith than most; because, that is one helluva leap of faith. Careful, gravity is a ________ ...well, you fill in the blank.
Mikeandvan
11-04-2025, 10:07
Fascinating history of the US-Japan trade wars of the 1980s.
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/20/725139664/lessons-for-today-from-the-u-s-japan-trade-war-of-the-1980s
Berni217
11-04-2025, 12:55
Fascinating history of the US-Japan trade wars of the 1980s.
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/20/725139664/lessons-for-today-from-the-u-s-japan-trade-war-of-the-1980s
Thanks for sharing!
Trump did not seem to take on board the lessons of the past by trying to build an alliance against China.
In contrary, some allies could turn to China instead due to the lack of trust in USA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What I will never understand is how anyone could vote for a President who illegally tried to remain in office by making false claims of a rigged election. Trump has a long history of making such claims when he doesn’t like the result.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-longstanding-history-calling-elections-rigged-doesnt-results/story?id=74126926
He does the same when he disagrees with a judge’s decision, and it’s staggering that people keep falling for it.
I also find it hard to understand his supporters championing “the will of the people” when he wins, yet seeming very happy to undermine and subvert their will when he loses. It would seem to undermine the credibility of both Trump and those who support him irrespective of reality.
Mikeandvan
11-04-2025, 21:43
I posted last night saying that Trump has raised tariffs on China to 125% and jokingly said that by tomorrow they could be 150%, and what do you know, due to China raising their tariffs on US goods to match America's, he raised them to 145%. This art of the deal genius is showing the world how it's done right? 'Heh, don't like it, we'll raise them some more'. And all this because of his perception America is being 'ripped off' (because of its dominance, which includes spending, of Nato? - that was deliberate US policy, it wanted to be the world's policeman, so objective achieved).
If he doesn't cause a recession, then he'll mark this up as some sort of win, when the only possible win would take years to happen - reshoring of jobs to the US, that's the aim right?
Thing is Trump has spent his adult life ripping people off, charging well above market rates in various property deals, and that's something he's proud of too, what an absolute slob. To make out this guy is for the working man is such utter nonsense.
More madness to come? An escalating trade war with China? Cos they don't seem to be backing down.
Mikeandvan
11-04-2025, 21:48
Thanks for sharing!
Trump did not seem to take on board the lessons of the past by trying to build an alliance against China.
In contrary, some allies could turn to China instead due to the lack of trust in USA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes that seems to be happening in the south pacific. Some gas deal was cancelled between the US and CHina, and now they'll buy it from Australia. The thing is there should have been more effort to keep manufacturing jobs in the US, not to mention the UK, but this takes years, and must be supported by left and right. Trump's bull in a china shop (pun intended) approach will achieve nothing.
Mikeandvan
11-04-2025, 21:49
What I will never understand is how anyone could vote for a President who illegally tried to remain in office by making false claims of a rigged election. Trump has a long history of making such claims when he doesn’t like the result.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-longstanding-history-calling-elections-rigged-doesnt-results/story?id=74126926
He does the same when he disagrees with a judge’s decision, and it’s staggering that people keep falling for it.
I also find it hard to understand his supporters championing “the will of the people” when he wins, yet seeming very happy to undermine and subvert their will when he loses. It would seem to undermine the credibility of both Trump and those who support him irrespective of reality.
It's a bit mad isn't it? someone who doesn't play by the rules shouldn't be allowed to play.
One thing I did note from the Oprah clip is just how pronounced Trump’s cognitive decline is today.
For anyone interested in the book I linked to earlier, here are some snippets pulled together to give a flavour of the opinions expressed within.
https://billmoyers.com/story/selections-from-the-dangerous-case-of-donald-trump/
Pigmy Pony
12-04-2025, 07:14
One thing I did note from the Oprah clip is just how pronounced Trump’s cognitive decline is today.
For anyone interested in the book I linked to earlier, here are some snippets pulled together to give a flavour of the opinions expressed within.
https://billmoyers.com/story/selections-from-the-dangerous-case-of-donald-trump/
Interesting, and not a little worrying.
I've come across that name (Dr Bandy X Lee) before, I'm more inclined to believe her well reasoned points than the seemingly unchecked crap coming out of the White House on a daily basis. I read somewhere recently that Trump doesn't have much regard for Dr Bandy. No surprise there, it's a bit like the regard Regan had for the psychiatrists and Father Merrin the Exorcist.
Mikeandvan
12-04-2025, 08:03
One thing I did note from the Oprah clip is just how pronounced Trump’s cognitive decline is today.
For anyone interested in the book I linked to earlier, here are some snippets pulled together to give a flavour of the opinions expressed within.
https://billmoyers.com/story/selections-from-the-dangerous-case-of-donald-trump/
I'm not sure, he was repeating the end of sentences twice then as well:lol:
Pigmy Pony
12-04-2025, 11:34
I saw that bag Leavitt yesterday doing her usual 'Trump is great' proclamations. It really is a nauseating watch, but I viewed anyway in the vain hope that someone would ask if she cared to comment on Trump's "Now is a good time to buy!" heads up for his mates. But no dice, it wasn't even mentioned :(
I saw that bag Leavitt yesterday doing her usual 'Trump is great' proclamations. It really is a nauseating watch, but I viewed anyway in the vain hope that someone would ask if she cared to comment on Trump's "Now is a good time to buy!" heads up for his mates. But no dice, it wasn't even mentioned :(
'No dice!'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSLqKvpJzzo
Mikeandvan
12-04-2025, 20:00
More backtracking from the fart of the deal;
"President Donald Trump’s administration exempted smartphones, computers and other electronics from its so-called reciprocal tariffs, representing a major reprieve for global technology manufacturers including Apple Inc. and Nvidia Corp. even if it proves a temporary one."
Even if he gets his arse kicked so badly that he has to drop all tariffs, he will still either claim victory or deny he was ever intending to impose tariffs. The Maga cult will just lap up whatever lies he spouts and then start repeating it.
Pigmy Pony
12-04-2025, 22:19
More backtracking from the fart of the deal;
"President Donald Trump’s administration exempted smartphones, computers and other electronics from its so-called reciprocal tariffs, representing a major reprieve for global technology manufacturers including Apple Inc. and Nvidia Corp. even if it proves a temporary one."
Well the US has neither the manufacturing capability nor the specialised skills needed to make them. And probably never will. But even if they could there'd be no way they can compete with rival far east manufacturers on price.
WOStantonCS100
12-04-2025, 23:44
I'll address this one to the lurkers (as opposed to the blind desperately trying to lead the blind).
scribd.com
Feel free to search for "Crossfire Hurricane Binder". Have fun!
Some UK folk might need a bit of context about Crossfire Hurricane:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_Hurricane_(FBI_investigation)
Mikeandvan
13-04-2025, 20:40
Well the US has neither the manufacturing capability nor the specialised skills needed to make them. And probably never will. But even if they could there'd be no way they can compete with rival far east manufacturers on price.
At present perhaps, but I'm sure they could if they put their minds to it. That's what I mean by Trump not having the foresight or vision to reshore manufacturing, what's needed here is a Roosevelt, not some tawdry salesman. A country is more than economic statistics, and both America and the UK is suffering badly from a lack of meaningful work.
Patrick Dixon
14-04-2025, 17:08
both America and the UK is suffering badly from a lack of meaningful work.
It really depends on what you mean by 'meaningful work'. If you mean toiling in a factory or the fields, then those days are probably over. AI (real AI I mean) will change the world as did the Industrial Revolution before it, but it's hard to understand what the equivalent of moving from working the fields to working in a mill will be. I suspect in the short term it will mean bad things for many elements of the human race, but hopefully, in the longer term it might be better for all.
I just feel lucky to have lived in the age (and part of the world) I have; there maybe better ages to come but there have certainly been a lot worse in the past.
Pigmy Pony
14-04-2025, 18:52
Michael Caine has been quoted as saying "Don't go into a job that can be replaced by technology". Well he might have got away with that one, but it looks like AI is snapping at the heels of everyone, including actors. No job is safe anymore.
And 21st century luddites won't have an easy task, what with all the killer robots keeping watch.
WOStantonCS100
15-04-2025, 00:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tju0nrPqOnI
WOStantonCS100
15-04-2025, 00:54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzH7eLdimwE
WOStantonCS100
15-04-2025, 00:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pve7E6AoIow
WOStantonCS100
15-04-2025, 01:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQGWK4Omuk4
I found this twitter thread on the motivation and implications for US tarriffs interesting, so thought I would share. In summary the author thinks there is some method in the madness. Unlike some other opinions I have read, the author does believe they will lead to a change in location for manufacturing investment, after initial paralysis, others say that uncertainty will prevent significant investment in the US for some time. I've no idea whether her analysis will prove correct, to be fair that's probably an impossible task, but I think the thread provides some interesting context. It doesn't cover what influence the Markets may have on US strategy, the US needs to refinance a significant amount of debt in the next year and won't want high interest rates so, it could be significant.
https://x.com/Trinhnomics/status/1911998557420433719
Mikeandvan
15-04-2025, 09:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tju0nrPqOnI
A trade deficit is evidence of what? Underhanded practices? If European consumers don't want American products then there are reasons for that, the most obvious being that you chose to offshore manufacturing to S E Asia many decades ago, US companies made that decision, perhaps the US govt. should have stepped in earlier to keep manufacturing in America. But it's a story us Euros are familiar with too, we've done exactly the same. The US used to make some fantastic stuff, from boots (Redwing - they're indestructible), to sunglasses (Ray Ban) to cars. But the Japs ate you alive, and the Chinese have been doing the same since the 80s. The one area where you still excel is services, in which you run a surplus with the EU.
About defending the world, yes true, but once again America wanted that role, the world's policeman, it hasn't always worked out well though, causing more conflict rather than deterring it, like in Iraq. Besides all that Trumps tariffs are a farcical attempt at a quick remedy that he quickly backtracked on, let's hope he doesn't do too much damage in his next 4 years before the American people give him the heave ho.
WOStantonCS100
15-04-2025, 15:15
A trade deficit is evidence of what? Underhanded practices? If European consumers don't want American products then there are reasons for that, the most obvious being that you chose to offshore manufacturing to S E Asia many decades ago, US companies made that decision, perhaps the US govt. should have stepped in earlier to keep manufacturing in America. But it's a story us Euros are familiar with too, we've done exactly the same. The US used to make some fantastic stuff, from boots (Redwing - they're indestructible), to sunglasses (Ray Ban) to cars. But the Japs ate you alive, and the Chinese have been doing the same since the 80s. The one area where you still excel is services, in which you run a surplus with the EU.
About defending the world, yes true, but once again America wanted that role, the world's policeman, it hasn't always worked out well though, causing more conflict rather than deterring it, like in Iraq. Besides all that Trumps tariffs are a farcical attempt at a quick remedy that he quickly backtracked on, let's hope he doesn't do too much damage in his next 4 years before the American people give him the heave ho.
..and yet, here we are.
Nevertheless, it's always good to here from an expert with a view from within...
Mikeandvan
15-04-2025, 18:08
..and yet, here we are.
Nevertheless, it's always good to here from an expert with a view from within...
What is the point of your posts? No one ever watches your videos, and you are completely unable to have a reasoned discussion. You're a Trump/Musk fanboy, that much we know, and little else.
WOStantonCS100
16-04-2025, 03:26
What is the point of your posts? No one ever watches your videos, and you are completely unable to have a reasoned discussion. You're a Trump/Musk fanboy, that much we know, and little else.
My videos?? Really, old chap?
You are a liar. I do not mean that in an ugly way. Quite simply, your statement is not factual in every way. First, they are not my videos. I neither created them nor uploaded them to any video sharing platform. Secondly, according to the view counts, scores of people are watching these videos. You might be somewhat correct in that it is nearly impossible to have a reasoned discussion with some, like yourself, whose premise begins and ends with lies.
So, let's try this:
First, admit you lied, you were wrong. Say it with me, "no, these are not videos you produced, neither did you post them to the internet".
Second, admit you lied, you were wrong... again. Say it with me, "you are correct, people indeed are watching these videos".
Now, if we can get to this point, there might be some hope of a reasoned discussion, but most likely not because of your manufactured hatred for President Donald Trump and apparently Elon Musk. Where in your response did you address the topics/content of the video? Oh, that's right. You didn't.
It's easier for you to toss disgust my way because neither Trump or Musk give a rip about what you say. You don't have an audience with them. So, you and your ilk fancy taking out your misplaced aggression on forum members who dare to post an opinion that doesn't match yours rather than start with the fact that, this or that has been said and that, this or that has been done. That is nonsensical, childish, very immature.
As to your intended insult, Trump and Musk are doing what the majority of Americans want them to do: close the border (done), route out corruption in the US government (doing it), the list goes on. Whether I am a "fanboy" or not is irrelevant. They have already earned themselves fans from coast to coast.
As to the I am "little else" portion of your insult, I'll remind you of the following. Just because you have a rectum does not mean you have to use it for oration.
How about you dial it back a bit, eh.
Patrick Dixon
16-04-2025, 06:41
I guess, coming from a country in the state that it's in, you now feel that it's acceptable to call others on here 'liars'.
But that's not what civilised people do, and it's never going to be acceptable on here, so how about you grow up and start behaving like an adult and the 'christian' person that you claim you are?
Pigmy Pony
16-04-2025, 06:52
There seems to be a breakdown in communication here.
I don't think Mike meant that you actually produce the videos, rather that they are "your" videos because you posted them on here.
To try to clarify this apparent language barrier, I will put up a silly fictional story...
My mate told me the other day that I have appalling dress sense and that nobody likes my sweatshirt, saying it's a stupid colour that no one would choose and it makes me look fat.
The cheek of some folk!
"Listen pal", I said to him, "For one thing, it isn't my sweatshirt, I didn't make it, it was produced in China, and I didn't buy it either, my wife did. So how is it my sweatshirt?" And as for no one liking it, my wife assures me that other people were buying the same sweatshirt, in the same colour. That it was being sold with 80% off is a bonus too" :)
As for no one watching "your" videos, he likely meant no one on this forum. That is probably factually incorrect - all I know is that I don't. I can only put up with so much content that either supports Trumpism unconditionally or tries to make his unbelievers appear stupid and wrong.
You have a PM. Please read.
Mikeandvan
16-04-2025, 09:32
There seems to be a breakdown in communication here.
I don't think Mike meant that you actually produce the videos, rather that they are "your" videos because you posted them on here.
To try to clarify this apparent language barrier, I will put up a silly fictional story...
My mate told me the other day that I have appalling dress sense and that nobody likes my sweatshirt, saying it's a stupid colour that no one would choose and it makes me look fat.
The cheek of some folk!
"Listen pal", I said to him, "For one thing, it isn't my sweatshirt, I didn't make it, it was produced in China, and I didn't buy it either, my wife did. So how is it my sweatshirt?" And as for no one liking it, my wife assures me that other people were buying the same sweatshirt, in the same colour. That it was being sold with 80% off is a bonus too" :)
As for no one watching "your" videos, he likely meant no one on this forum. That is probably factually incorrect - all I know is that I don't. I can only put up with so much content that either supports Trumpism unconditionally or tries to make his unbelievers appear stupid and wrong.
People barely reply to posts on here, no one's gonna bother watching a 30 minute video of something they think is likely complete poppycock.
Mikeandvan
16-04-2025, 09:36
My videos?? Really, old chap?
You are a liar. I do not mean that in an ugly way. Quite simply, your statement is not factual in every way. First, they are not my videos. I neither created them nor uploaded them to any video sharing platform. Secondly, according to the view counts, scores of people are watching these videos. You might be somewhat correct in that it is nearly impossible to have a reasoned discussion with some, like yourself, whose premise begins and ends with lies.
So, let's try this:
First, admit you lied, you were wrong. Say it with me, "no, these are not videos you produced, neither did you post them to the internet".
Second, admit you lied, you were wrong... again. Say it with me, "you are correct, people indeed are watching these videos".
Now, if we can get to this point, there might be some hope of a reasoned discussion, but most likely not because of your manufactured hatred for President Donald Trump and apparently Elon Musk. Where in your response did you address the topics/content of the video? Oh, that's right. You didn't.
It's easier for you to toss disgust my way because neither Trump or Musk give a rip about what you say. You don't have an audience with them. So, you and your ilk fancy taking out your misplaced aggression on forum members who dare to post an opinion that doesn't match yours rather than start with the fact that, this or that has been said and that, this or that has been done. That is nonsensical, childish, very immature.
As to your intended insult, Trump and Musk are doing what the majority of Americans want them to do: close the border (done), route out corruption in the US government (doing it), the list goes on. Whether I am a "fanboy" or not is irrelevant. They have already earned themselves fans from coast to coast.
As to the I am "little else" portion of your insult, I'll remind you of the following. Just because you have a rectum does not mean you have to use it for oration.
How about you dial it back a bit, eh.
Heh buddy, if this isn't addressing the topic then what is? Certainly none of your posts which involve little more than 'Trump got voted in so he can do what he wants'.
Of course feel free to reply now if can be bothered.
In response to your video of white house chief of staff:
"A trade deficit is evidence of what? Underhanded practices? If European consumers don't want American products then there are reasons for that, the most obvious being that you chose to offshore manufacturing to S E Asia many decades ago, US companies made that decision, perhaps the US govt. should have stepped in earlier to keep manufacturing in America. But it's a story us Euros are familiar with too, we've done exactly the same. The US used to make some fantastic stuff, from boots (Redwing - they're indestructible), to sunglasses (Ray Ban) to cars. But the Japs ate you alive, and the Chinese have been doing the same since the 80s. The one area where you still excel is services, in which you run a surplus with the EU.
About defending the world, yes true, but once again America wanted that role, the world's policeman, it hasn't always worked out well though, causing more conflict rather than deterring it, like in Iraq. Besides all that Trumps tariffs are a farcical attempt at a quick remedy that he quickly backtracked on, let's hope he doesn't do too much damage in his next 4 years before the American people give him the heave ho."
I have watched some portions of some of the videos linked to. But linking to Youtube videos is a very poor way to make a point IMO.
I appreciate that politics is an emotional topic for some people but we should try to make arguments against actions and not against individuals.
Personal attacks are the last refuge of people who have no valid argument to make. So let's refrain from that and restrict the discussion to support or opposition for policies and actions rather than aiming at the individuals who support or oppose them.
I’ve watched most of them, maybe all of them. I have skipped forward quite a bit though, as lots just didn’t seem relevant or were the sort of thing a 12 year-old would put together.
I did read bits of the Steele dossier document linked, but it was heavy going and I didn’t manage to read anything I didn’t already know. It’s pretty tough reading without any pointers as to what the point was meant to be.
Did any of it change my perspective? Not at all, and I doubt anything said or shared on this thread has shifted anyone’s viewpoint. I can’t see Trump being a subject that many people are open to persuasion on, because there’s already so much evidence, experience and history behind us now.
For me, the only questions remaining are how this will all unfold, and none of us have those answers yet. My expectations are that he will do significant harm to America and the rest of the world. It’s only a matter of degree.
Within that, there is also the possibility of some good things. Speaking personally, this whole Woke thing has gone way too far, and has led to a situation where the Left seems to focus more on pandering to minorities and those who are a drain on society than it does making life better for the working majority who pay for it all. Also a clear push-back against multi-culturalism and a majority wish to preserve what defines each nation. There has to be a re-appraisal of what the opposition offers voters if it is to dissolve the support for right-wing populists.
There could also be a unification of Western nations as a response to Trump. New alliances, defence pacts and trade deals could again bring some good. It could equally lead to greater Chinese expansion. We just don’t know right now.
The US mid-terms will be a critical time, because control of both Houses will be re-determined. It will also mark a point where Trump will need to make a play for remaining in office, or back a successor and spend more time playing golf. 2nd term presidents have often pursued foreign policy initiatives, especially if they lose control of Senate and House. Short of declaring war (which no President needs to do) there is a lot of scope. Within this, there may even be an avenue that offers Trump a means of justifying whatever tactic he may use to avoid leaving office.
Or of course, he could have a heart attack or stroke tomorrow, and all speculation will have been wasted energy. One thing is for sure: Our descendants will look back at this time and wonder why the world didn’t do “x” in stead of “y” and why we couldn’t see what unfolded. Some of us might still be alive to say “if only they had listened to me: I even posted to warn everyone on AOS!”
:lol:
Within that, there is also the possibility of some good things. Speaking personally, this whole Woke thing has gone way too far, and has led to a situation where the Left seems to focus more on pandering to minorities and those who are a drain on society than it does making life better for the working majority who pay for it all. Also a clear push-back against multi-culturalism and a majority wish to preserve what defines each nation. There has to be a re-appraisal of what the opposition offers voters if it is to dissolve the support for right-wing populists.
Indeed. A binary choice between two different but equally idiotic ideologies is no choice at all. Better to forget 'left' and 'right' and pursue pragmatic solutions.
The problem throughout history has always been idealism and idealists. The quest for perfection quickly becomes the enemy of good.
No change is actually better because it means stability, where long term plans and investments can be made and executed, where there can be reasonable confidence that tomorrow will be like today, and then a rising tide can lift all boats.
Never been a better example of this than now where no-one can predict what Trump will do tomorrow - not even he can, I strongly suspect.
I could’ve written those words. I’m sure they would chime with huge numbers of people in both the USA and the UK. No wonder loads don’t vote, whilst many others are actually voting against the option the fear most.
WOStantonCS100
16-04-2025, 14:38
I guess, coming from a country in the state that it's in, you now feel that it's acceptable to call others on here 'liars'.
What would you call some one who tells lies?
But that's not what civilised people do, and it's never going to be acceptable on here, so how about you grow up and start behaving like an adult and the 'christian' person that you claim you are?
I don't think that's having the effect you think it's having. I do not cower to internet bullies; I call them out.
WOStantonCS100
16-04-2025, 14:43
"Calling Members here 'liars'
Hello WOC (sorry we do not know how to address you by your true name),
In your last post in the thread you started, you called a Member here a 'liar'. Such abuse is not tolerated here in The Art of Sound and is against the Ethos of the Forum.
So I am asking you to apologise for your language, and post it in the same thread. If you do not, then you may be given a month's 'holiday' so as to calm down.
Thank you
Barry"
The bias here is staggering both in it's ugliness and it's absurdity.
Not going to happen; as in, "Pound. Sand.".
Pigmy Pony
16-04-2025, 16:39
"Calling Members here 'liars'
Hello WOC (sorry we do not know how to address you by your true name),
In your last post in the thread you started, you called a Member here a 'liar'. Such abuse is not tolerated here in The Art of Sound and is against the Ethos of the Forum.
So I am asking you to apologise for your language, and post it in the same thread. If you do not, then you may be given a month's 'holiday' so as to calm down.
Thank you
Barry"
The bias here is staggering both in it's ugliness and it's absurdity.
Not going to happen; as in, "Pound. Sand.".
Oh dear WOS, the paranoia shown above is similarly staggering, but also unsurprising. I reckon it's the Trump administration's "America first" ideology that's got you thinking the rest of the world is out to get you. We are simply concerned with how things are going and where it will end up for us all, and that includes you guys.
Mikeandvan
16-04-2025, 17:43
I’ve watched most of them, maybe all of them. I have skipped forward quite a bit though, as lots just didn’t seem relevant or were the sort of thing a 12 year-old would put together.
I did read bits of the Steele dossier document linked, but it was heavy going and I didn’t manage to read anything I didn’t already know. It’s pretty tough reading without any pointers as to what the point was meant to be.
Did any of it change my perspective? Not at all, and I doubt anything said or shared on this thread has shifted anyone’s viewpoint. I can’t see Trump being a subject that many people are open to persuasion on, because there’s already so much evidence, experience and history behind us now.
For me, the only questions remaining are how this will all unfold, and none of us have those answers yet. My expectations are that he will do significant harm to America and the rest of the world. It’s only a matter of degree.
Within that, there is also the possibility of some good things. Speaking personally, this whole Woke thing has gone way too far, and has led to a situation where the Left seems to focus more on pandering to minorities and those who are a drain on society than it does making life better for the working majority who pay for it all. Also a clear push-back against multi-culturalism and a majority wish to preserve what defines each nation. There has to be a re-appraisal of what the opposition offers voters if it is to dissolve the support for right-wing populists.
There could also be a unification of Western nations as a response to Trump. New alliances, defence pacts and trade deals could again bring some good. It could equally lead to greater Chinese expansion. We just don’t know right now.
The US mid-terms will be a critical time, because control of both Houses will be re-determined. It will also mark a point where Trump will need to make a play for remaining in office, or back a successor and spend more time playing golf. 2nd term presidents have often pursued foreign policy initiatives, especially if they lose control of Senate and House. Short of declaring war (which no President needs to do) there is a lot of scope. Within this, there may even be an avenue that offers Trump a means of justifying whatever tactic he may use to avoid leaving office.
Or of course, he could have a heart attack or stroke tomorrow, and all speculation will have been wasted energy. One thing is for sure: Our descendants will look back at this time and wonder why the world didn’t do “x” in stead of “y” and why we couldn’t see what unfolded. Some of us might still be alive to say “if only they had listened to me: I even posted to warn everyone on AOS!”
:lol:
What's interesting here is how Woke went mainstream. However did we get to a stage where for instance a woman's sports championship (snooker finals) would be fought
by two men? It seems we went through the looking glass long ago. And where in courts throughout the land in cases involving men in dresses, sorry transwomen, the defendant is routinely referred to as 'she'. People laugh this off, but it's a sign of some serious crisis of confidence going on underneath. Woke however is quite an easy target for Trump to fire some shots off to, less easy is the complex world of international relations - he's given Russia Ukraine, and international trade, as we've seen in the desperate flip flopping over tariffs for the past month.
I really didn’t read any inference in Mike’s post that WOS was the creator of the videos posted. I thought it was obvious that they were made by different people, and a reference to “your videos” meant videos posted/shared on here by WOS.
Just clicking on the videos will bring up the name of the creator, with options to subscribe and see other content by them.
Pigmy Pony
16-04-2025, 18:19
Right now the Governor of California Gavin Newsom is holding a news conference after announcing the state will be suing the Trump administration over the Tariffs, stating that they are unconstitutional and illegal. This might get interesting.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/california-sues-trump-administration-presidents-sweeping-tariffs-rcna201498
Mikeandvan
17-04-2025, 09:03
Right now the Governor of California Gavin Newsom is holding a news conference after announcing the state will be suing the Trump administration over the Tariffs, stating that they are unconstitutional and illegal. This might get interesting.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/california-sues-trump-administration-presidents-sweeping-tariffs-rcna201498
I find the state by state response to Trump madness quite hard to follow, but one does wonder what are the democrats doing while Trump rips up the constitution?
Mikeandvan
17-04-2025, 09:05
So not only didn't Trump end the Russo-Ukraine war in 24 hours, or even 24 days, he's complicit with Putin in just letting him have Ukraine, way to go Trump, art of the deal yo!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54457901863_5b5455f1c4_z.jpg
Trump has been a living car crash played out across the World’s media since 2016. I almost expect him to top the news each day because of something sensational/shocking/crazy that he’s said or done. If it’s not him it’s his supporters.
I’ve become a fascinated/horrified observer who can’t seem to tear his eyes away from the horror and the madness. It’s been both sickening and entertaining; sometimes simultaneously. There are way too many to recall, but a couple of recent ones have been from people you’d never expect to vote for him. That somehow made them memorably comedic and tragic.
I recall reading about one bloke facing deportation saying he hadn’t expected that to happen, but he still didn’t regret his vote because America would be more prosperous under Trump.
Then another guy reluctantly deciding to back Trump, explaining that he “got” all the downsides. He even went on to list half a dozen of these quite eloquently before revealing the single factor that made a Trump vote a sad inevitability for him: He could never vote for a woman after what Eve did in The Garden Of Eden.
Firebottle
18-04-2025, 06:41
^ Excellent post, I guess most of us Brits feel exactly the same.
Berni217
19-04-2025, 06:00
Trump’s tariff results in a level of corruption never seen before! This is what the negotiations with each country all about …
https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:5uahexd6wlinp35ly2m4zgnn/bafkreigwdw4y3vgmpxatfvqmr7hqisk4fhv7nrm2hjide5usm z3z42lthu@jpeg
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Pigmy Pony
21-04-2025, 13:25
Is this man even capable of walking and talking at the same time without falling over?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g8r701lrno
Mikeandvan
22-04-2025, 21:10
Is this man even capable of walking and talking at the same time without falling over?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g8r701lrno
It is well known that Hegseth was out of his depth as def. sec, he certainly doesn't seem to have the temperament for it, he seems more like a military man to me, like a general or something, not someone able to negotiate the realms of int. relations. Saying that, practically all of Trump's top picks are said to be out of their depths, hence compliant to dear leader.
Mikeandvan
25-04-2025, 07:40
Art of the deal yo!
Trump, Truth social on thursday:
“I am not happy with the Russian strikes on KYIV. Not necessary, and very bad timing. Vladimir, STOP! 5000 soldiers a week are dying. Let’s get the Peace Deal DONE!” Trump wrote on Truth Social on Thursday.https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/24/europe/russia-strikes-kyiv-trump-zelensky-crimea-intl-hnk/index.html
'Please Mr Putin, please stop this war, be nice':lol:
He's desperate to appear to have fulfilled his claim to have "stopped the war" before his 100 days in office have passed.
Putin will pay absolutely no notice of Trump's tweet.
Pete The Cat
25-04-2025, 10:15
I get that we've been in an increasingly global economy and have so much shared experience and culture with the US but am I alone in finding it disconcerting that our main news has been the US news for so many weeks now? I'm starting to think that more UK folks could name the US Vice-President than the UK Deputy Prime Minister. I really enjoy visiting the US and have met and worked alongside many nice Americans and expect to continue to do so regardless of anything happening at the moment, but right now I'm a bit bored with the USA. Hmm, maybe there's a song in that...
Pigmy Pony
25-04-2025, 12:27
I get that we've been in an increasingly global economy and have so much shared experience and culture with the US but am I alone in finding it disconcerting that our main news has been the US news for so many weeks now? I'm starting to think that more UK folks could name the US Vice-President than the UK Deputy Prime Minister. I really enjoy visiting the US and have met and worked alongside many nice Americans and expect to continue to do so regardless of anything happening at the moment, but right now I'm a bit bored with the USA. Hmm, maybe there's a song in that...
Trump has ruined America for me - I couldn't possibly enjoy a holiday over there, knowing that half of the people I'd be having to deal with actually think that moron is doing good things.
Trump has ruined America for me - I couldn't possibly enjoy a holiday over there, knowing that half of the people I'd be having to deal with actually think that moron is doing good things.
Turnout was only 60 percent of registered voters and only half voted for him so your chance of encountering a Trump-voting American is really only about one in four.
Pigmy Pony
25-04-2025, 13:12
Turnout was only 60 percent of registered voters and only half voted for him so your chance of encountering a Trump-voting American is really only about one in four.
I read yesterday that his 'approval rating' has dropped from 47% in January to 42%. I don't expect Bullshit Barbie (who likes to bang on about approval ratings) will be mentioning it at the next White House press briefing. Be nice if one of the reporters brings it up though.
Bullshit Barbie
That's harsh, I find her very easy on the eye. But then I did always have a thing for those corn-fed American gals.
Pete The Cat
25-04-2025, 14:53
Trump has ruined America for me - I couldn't possibly enjoy a holiday over there, knowing that half of the people I'd be having to deal with actually think that moron is doing good things.
Most folks don’t understand the detail of the issues. They vote for change or status quo based on what they see in their pay packet or on their supermarket shelves.
Some might say the same thing about Brexit or Scottish independence which were broadly equally divisive here. I don't think we can dismiss half of folks because they see things differently to us, whether they're experts on an issue or just hoping that a roll of the dice will make things better. We still have much more in common than not and taking each man as you find him works best for me anyway.
Pigmy Pony
25-04-2025, 15:06
Most folks don’t understand the detail of the issues. They vote for change or status quo based on what they see in their pay packet or on their supermarket shelves.
Some might say the same thing about Brexit or Scottish independence which were broadly equally divisive here. I don't think we can dismiss half of folks because they see things differently to us, whether they're experts on an issue or just hoping that a roll of the dice will make things better. We still have much more in common than not and taking each man as you find him works best for me anyway.
You're right of course Pete, I just need to accept that not all Trump supporters have the same mindset as a certain someone who shall remain nameless (because no one here actually knows his name) ;)
Pigmy Pony
25-04-2025, 15:09
That's harsh, I find her very easy on the eye. But then I did always have a thing for those corn-fed American gals.
I started out thinking the same, then she started speaking.
My partner and I were musing whether to visit the US this year. Tourism to the US has dropped significantly, so maybe we could pick up some cheap flights. :eyebrows:
Pigmy Pony
25-04-2025, 15:23
My partner and I were musing whether to visit the US this year. Tourism to the US has dropped significantly, so maybe we could pick up some cheap flights. :eyebrows:
My builder mate is flying over the Atlantic as we speak, for their twice a year holiday in Vegas. That's the 'adult' holidays, summer sees them in Florida for their annual 'family' holiday. They always fly super-posh seats, as he has a Virgin credit card which pays for all the building materials he uses. That's a lot of air miles.
Mikeandvan
03-05-2025, 20:55
Ukraine back on the offensive. Putin pushed it too far with Trump, and now Trump has brought US policy back into line. The Ruskies just seem to be piss takers, either that or they're just fuching stupid. I quote from Twitter https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1918596950158397943
Full: Ukraine, having signed the agreement on minerals, can receive $30 billion in aid from the US this year, — Zelensky
This aid was approved by the previous administration for 2025-2026.
"There is $15 billion in 2025 according to the decisions that were (adopted) by Congress a year ago. $15 billion is a package for 2025, and weapons for this amount. There is also $15 billion that they divided on 2026. The question is whether this money reaches you or not. And this is a lot of money, $30 billion. The question is whether it is possible in 2026 thanks to the fund that has now been created, whether it is possible to bring the $15 billion in 2026 closer to 2025, for example, to the second half and receive weapons for $30 billion in 2025 and 2026, but to receive it now. These $30 billion will be the contribution of the American side to the Reconstruction Investment Fund. Ukraine will then give its half (to this Fund) little by little, and this is an agreement."
What a bell end.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250504/fbe40e2acf5f848b9e03ee97dc738fe1.jpg
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I think his piss-takes are his one redeeming feature.
And now he thinks Mattel is a country... Placing Tariffs on his own country's manufacturers! :lol:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cn4q950zxgqo
Pigmy Pony
09-05-2025, 22:36
I believe his press secretary was born in Mattel.
I believe his press secretary was born in Mattel.
:lol:
https://i.ibb.co/5gBwKDKy/OIP.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
Pigmy Pony
10-05-2025, 07:42
Arrived a couple of days ago:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/31DYSAPEKXL._AC_.jpg
Perfect 'as new' condition, no even a finger mark on it. Looks unplayed, which could be a bad sign, but it's off to a promising start. I have to play it pretty quiet, Anita's still in bed, I'll give it more vol later :) Another worthy recommendation from Alex.
What has the above got to do with Trump in the White House?
Methinks it should be in the Spinning Today (Part 4) thread. :doh: ;)
Pigmy Pony
10-05-2025, 08:28
My apologies Barry, obviously it was meant for "Spinning today"... Too much hopping between threads :doh: In my defence I hadn't had my Weetabix yet. Is there a way it can be moved?
Don't worry, I'll move it when I have time. :)
To be fair it fits in here, latest I heard was Trump has put a 100% tariff on Layo & Bushwacker.
Patrick Dixon
11-05-2025, 14:11
Yeah but apparently they have phoned him and they are very keen to do a deal.
Mikeandvan
21-05-2025, 22:49
On the BBC news tonight, Trump in the white house, excoriating the South African president over the alleged genocide of white farmers, absolutely hilarious, the man is a fuching clown, has no one ever taught him diplomacy or statecraft?
ps the alleged genocide is apparently a load of bollocks, but that didn't stop our Donald!
Pigmy Pony
22-05-2025, 06:19
Deliberate ambush, just like with Zelenskyy. Trump and his minions were lying in wait. Even had the video cued up ready. And he wasn't going to move from that subject, as witnessed by the repeated verbal bashing of that reporter who dared to ask a question that might interfere with his agenda.
Respect to Ramaphosa for staying calm and respectful through all that.
Mikeandvan
22-05-2025, 07:44
Deliberate ambush, just like with Zelenskyy. Trump and his minions were lying in wait. Even had the video cued up ready. And he wasn't going to move from that subject, as witnessed by the repeated verbal bashing of that reporter who dared to ask a question that might interfere with his agenda.
Respect to Ramaphosa for staying calm and respectful through all that.
Didn't he offer to buy him a jet plane?:lol:
Pigmy Pony
22-05-2025, 09:12
Didn't he offer to buy him a jet plane?:lol:
Trump did mention that if Cyril offered him a plane he'd accept it. Cyril just smiled politely, but was probably thinking yeah I'll give you one identical to John Denver's ;)
Trump's Oval Office meetings are becoming an embarassing indication of US foreign policy and of diplomacy. They are cringe making!
They verge on parody, it's true.
The treatment of Volodymyr Zelensky by Trump and Vance was despicable beyond words.
America's foreign policy has always been suspect, but it has now reached a new low with the present administration.
The treatment of Volodymyr Zelensky by Trump and Vance was despicable beyond words.
America's foreign policy has always been suspect, but it has now reached a new low with the present administration.
I think their foreign policy often fails due to mistaken assumptions about how other countries and cultures operate. Trump nothing new in that regard, Kennedy and Johnson were terrible, even FDR was bad at it.
Oh I think Trump has definitely set a new low. Just listen to the way he speaks. He's no diplomat and is only concerned with himself.
Mikeandvan
05-06-2025, 19:49
It didn't take long, Trump and Musk are not buddies anymore.:lol:
Now I wonder if all the Trump fanboys opinion of Musk has suddenly changed too?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54570004708_cf1a070cf6_z.jpg
It didn't take long, Trump and Musk are not buddies anymore.:lol:
Now I wonder if all the Trump fanboys opinion of Musk has suddenly changed too?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54570004708_cf1a070cf6_z.jpg
2 'likes', presumably from General Motors and Ford :)
Pigmy Pony
05-06-2025, 20:56
In one of his Truth Social posts, Trump has just said that no one wants Musk's Teslas. He seemed happy to receive one only two months ago, Though it was obvious back then he would never drive it as long as he had a hole in his arse. He's just pathologically incapable of being honest about anything.
Mikeandvan
05-06-2025, 21:36
Timothy Snyder said a few months back that Musk and Vance would oust Trump and turn America into an kleptocracy, I hope he's wrong! Meanwhile having a lot of fun watching the Trump>Musk fanboys explain away this lovers tiff.:lol:
Berni217
06-06-2025, 04:44
Funny indeed. 2 mad men are at war and we don’t know what will happen next!
Also Trump was humiliated by the German chancellor in the Oval Office after he laughed about D day…
The worst presidency in history is reaching new lows!!
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Mikeandvan
06-06-2025, 19:52
The mud slinging between the Maga bros is getting worse, it's f***ing hilarious!
Musk yesterday: Time to drop the really big bomb:
@realDonaldTrump
is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have not been made public.
Have a nice day, DJT!
'Asked about Ms Thunberg at the White House, US President Donald Trump said: "I think she has to go to anger management class. That's my primary recommendation for her."'
Sometimes he's really hard to dislike.
I have no difficulty at all in disliking Trump and all his sycophantic cabinet.
Patrick Dixon
11-06-2025, 07:17
I'm not sure how hard it is to dislike someone who is a rapist, liar, and a bully* - but if you can't, you can't, I guess.
(* and that's just the proven stuff)
I'm not sure how hard it is to dislike someone who is a rapist, liar, and a bully* - but if you can't, you can't, I guess.
(* and that's just the proven stuff)
That statement is untrue, which is ironic. It has never been proven that he's a rapist, nor has he been charged with rape in any civil or criminal proceedings.
Pigmy Pony
11-06-2025, 16:35
I'm not sure how hard it is to dislike someone who is a rapist, liar, and a bully* - but if you can't, you can't, I guess.
(* and that's just the proven stuff)
I think we're pretty much all in agreement (on this side of the Atlantic) that Trump is a narcissistic sociopath, probably the most dangerous man in the world (well in the top three anyway), and a proper tit.
And I reckon the earlier post was a humourous dig at Ms. Thornberg, nothing more. After all , we can still have a laugh, can't we?
Patrick Dixon
12-06-2025, 11:56
I'm not sure that Macca is on the same page as me.
I'm not sure that Macca is on the same page as me.
Maybe not the same page but we're possibly still reading the same book.
It comes back to the same point I've been making for a long time which is that the opposition to Trump fabricates the 'facts' just the same as Trump does. A strategy for failure, as evidenced by the simple fact that he's president again. I'm just as unhappy with that outcome as you are.
That doesn't mean some of he things he says do not amuse me but then I'm not emotionally invested and don't see the return of the Trump administration as an outlet for my anger.
Patrick Dixon
12-06-2025, 16:33
the opposition to Trump fabricates the 'facts' just the same as Trump does
Sorry, but I really don't think we are reading the same book.
I'm emotionally invested in life and my way of life and I see Trump as a threat to us all. I would like to believe that the human race won't destroy itself and the planet underneath it, but I suspect it will eventually. I just hope I'm not around to see it.
I don't see Trump as a threat to my way of life at all so maybe you're right. Different book.
That statement is untrue, which is ironic. It has never been proven that he's a rapist, nor has he been charged with rape in any civil or criminal proceedings.
Incorrect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump
Incorrect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump
No it isn't. Sexual assault and rape are different charges in New York State as explained in your link.
Thats the same line Trumps Lawyers tried to get away with.
Patrick Dixon
13-06-2025, 09:08
No it isn't. Sexual assault and rape are different charges in New York State as explained in your link.
Like, who cares? Is one that much better than the other?
Like, who cares? Is one that much better than the other?
Not really but that's not the point I was making. (Aside from this was a civil case and so the requirement for evidence is much lower than in a criminal case) Fact is that it was not proven that he was a rapist.
We've seen this previously on this thread with the 'drink bleach to cure covid' claim which again is demonstrably untrue, as we have the transcript and video of what he actually said.
If we wanted to attack someone who had never done anything wrong then we would have to make things up. But with Trump the man is a walking clusterfuck and its really not so hard to find genuine angles of attack. So it puzzles me as to why so many critics don't do that and instead go for the tabloid headline approach.
It's counter-productive because if you consider a swing voter trying to make a decision, he's presented with untruths from both sides. 'Don't vote for Trump because he's a liar' doesn't really work if your side is also massaging the truth. Now he can't believe what anyone is telling him so he bases his decision on other factors instead.
'How can people vote for a liar like Trump?' - that's your answer.
Even suggesting that research into the possibility of using the internal application of bleach into the human body to cure covid, shows that Trump doesn't know what he is talking about. And his appointment of a vocal anti-vaxer to the US Department of Health doesn't help his creditability.
Patrick Dixon
13-06-2025, 15:50
'How can people vote for a liar like Trump?' - that's your answer.
That's not my question or my answer.
I'm sure it would be much easier to be more amoeba-like, but that just makes us less human and enables all these psychopathic megalomaniacs that are trying to run/ruin our lives.
That's not my question or my answer.
I'm sure it would be much easier to be more amoeba-like, but that just makes us less human and enables all these psychopathic megalomaniacs that are trying to run/ruin our lives.
There's really only 2 types of politician throughout history, chancers and idiots. It's hard to think of any I'd elevate to 'psychopathic megalomaniac' which implies they've at least got a bit about them. Maybe Napoleon?
Trump's unusual although not unique in that he's both an idiot and a chancer.
Patrick Dixon
15-06-2025, 08:18
But there are only 3 types of Monkey:
Those that don't see
Those that don't hear
and
Those that don't speak.
Pigmy Pony
15-06-2025, 09:49
Tripitaka thinks there might be four.
The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!
Burt Kwouk's best work... :D
Couple of Fun Facts?
Andrew Sachs played the voice of Tripitaka's Horse, Yu-Lung the White Dragon Horse
https://d1nslcd7m2225b.cloudfront.net/Pictures/480xAny/5/0/4/1251504_sachs.jpg
Another famous face (well voice) on Monkey was Miriam Margoylys
https://i2-prod.walesonline.co.uk/article29594554.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/0_274424703.jpg
She was also the voice of the Sexy Rabbit in the 1980s Cadburys Caramel adverts!
Thank you for attending my TED Talk.
Pigmy Pony
16-06-2025, 16:41
Moving away from the Trump cloud for just a minute:
https://youtu.be/JxYkbutgtOI?t=3
I don't know any Iranian swear words, but I bet this woman had a few.
Rush2112
17-06-2025, 06:59
America is in the midst of its darkest period of political instability in its 236 years as a Republic, it has a president who is clearly dillusional at best or just plain bat shit crazy ! A senior cabinet who are either totally incapable or incompetent or both ! The spin, "barefaced lies", from the Whitehouse are not only creating geopolitical instability but will damage America's credibility for years to come.
All an unfortunate consequence of Democrats who didn't bother to vote as they didn't believe Trump could possibly get elected and Trumpites who believe/believed his dillusional "spin" and are now discovering that making America great is very painful to thier pockets, pensions, health care and jobs !!
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America is in the midst of its darkest period of political instability in its 236 years as a Republic,
If you leave out the American Civil War and Vietnam/Watergate, then maybe.
America is in the midst of its darkest period of political instability in its 236 years as a Republic, it has a president who is clearly dillusional at best or just plain bat shit crazy ! A senior cabinet who are either totally incapable or incompetent or both ! The spin, "barefaced lies", from the Whitehouse are not only creating geopolitical instability but will damage America's credibility for years to come.
All an unfortunate consequence of Democrats who didn't bother to vote as they didn't believe Trump could possibly get elected and Trumpites who believe/believed his dillusional "spin" and are now discovering that making America great is very painful to thier pockets, pensions, health care and jobs !!
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The massive turnout for the "No Kings" protests across America vs. Trump's mostly ignored Dictator reveal party in Washington gave me hope.
Trumps decline is for all to see, and his shilling for Putin at the recent G7 summit is alientating him more from World Leadership.
Trump was monologueing about Putin being only willing to talk to him and how Russia should be brought back into the G7(G8)
... this made Canada's PM bring the Summit to an early close.
He recognised what Trump was doing and was having none of it.
The tide is turning I think.
If you leave out the American Civil War and Vietnam/Watergate, then maybe.
Watergate is nothing compared to the current situation in my opinion.
Corrupt administration... sure.
But not this, and all the tendrils reaching out from it.
If you think that Trumps not driving this, He's a "useful Idiot" and getting what he wants out of it,
but so are the others behind him thats using his position.
Its a wide weaving web, not just limited to Nixons corrupt Admin.
Watergate is nothing compared to the current situation in my opinion.
Corrupt administration... sure.
But not this, and all the tendrils reaching out from it.
If you think that Trumps not driving this, He's a "useful Idiot" and getting what he wants out of it,
but so are the others behind him thats using his position.
Its a wide weaving web, not just limited to Nixons corrupt Admin.
Maybe but the claim that it's the darkest period in the history of America is a bit of a stretch. Even if you discount the unrest in the 1960s what about the Civil War? I mean, there's no comparison.
Maybe but the claim that it's the darkest period in the history of America is a bit of a stretch. Even if you discount the unrest in the 1960s what about the Civil War? I mean, there's no comparison.
yeah, agree mate.
it’s dark, but not the darkest the US has seen. So far, anyway.
About 30 KC30 tankers arrived in the UK from the USA recently.
Something is going on.
Joint effort to hit Iran, continuing to back up Israel?
If so,
this wont be good.
Pigmy Pony
18-06-2025, 15:49
US seems to regard Israel as their 51st state. Doesn't matter that they already have a well dodgy leader. But I honestly don't know who to side with in this issue, Iran's leader doesn't appear to value human life, whether it be non-Muslims or even their own people.
Rush2112
21-06-2025, 18:51
Seriously, this current situation will make Watergate look like a mere blink of the eye. In the UK media we see only a fraction of the level of interference in every aspect of the Constitution by Trump and his cohorts !
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It seems that the Trump tariff business has really had an impact on the American hi-fi business. Especially with Canada, which used to be a part of a free trade zone. The tariffs change every 10 minutes and the shipping companies and courier services don’t have the systems in place to administer the tariff collection, so everything takes ages and costs a fortune. The admin charges on top of the tariffs and randomly extreme. Manufacturers are designing products at one price point and having to increase it when they go to market. It’s a sort of Brexit times 10 if, some such thing is imaginable.
I used to think that Trump was the devil incarnate, who couldn’t open his mouth without lying. However, it turns out he has been extraordinary honest in setting out his policy agenda and following through on it. His complete intolerance for any level of detail allows him to see the big picture and not lose focus, letting his minions sweat the small stuff. He is considering the law to be an inconvenience at best and an irrelevance at worst does raise some concern for the future of the Republic. Thankfully it’s their problem and not ours.
It seems that the Trump tariff business has really had an impact on the American hi-fi business. Especially with Canada, which used to be a part of a free trade zone. The tariffs change every 10 minutes and the shipping companies and courier services don’t have the systems in place to administer the tariff collection, so everything takes ages and costs a fortune. The admin charges on top of the tariffs and randomly extreme. Manufacturers are designing products at one price point and having to increase it when they go to market. It’s a sort of Brexit times 10 if, some such thing is imaginable.
I used to think that Trump was the devil incarnate, who couldn’t open his mouth without lying. However, it turns out he has been extraordinary honest in setting out his policy agenda and following through on it. His complete intolerance for any level of detail allows him to see the big picture and not lose focus, letting his minions sweat the small stuff. He is considering the law to be an inconvenience at best and an irrelevance at worst does raise some concern for the future of the Republic. Thankfully it’s their problem and not ours.
15 years with FedEx here I can assure you the systems are in place. There have always been tariffs on pretty much everything. There have always been Customs Clearance Charges (CCC).
The carrier is effectively the customs agent i.e unpaid tax collectors for the government. Government employed customs staff don't assess tariff rates or process shipments, that's a common misconception.
It's the constant chopping and changing that's the problem and I suspect that will continue for the next three years.
See he's currently up our part of the Country?
https://janeygodley.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/trumpcunt800x546.jpg
Succinct, if not particularly erudite. :lol:
Firebottle
26-07-2025, 17:35
Couldn't have put it better myself.
There seems to be a lot of them around.
Thank you for that. It cheered me up.
I phoned my bank manager on Wednesday. It is possible to phone a bank manager, although this one is in Los Angeles. Calling one in the UK? Impossible. I only phoned to ask her to put some money on deposit and before I could get past "hello" she spent an hour ranting about how much of a cnut Herr Trumpf is. She actually was very well informed and she tells me there are soon going to be riots over the lack of car seats, and Mexicans, and timber, and ... . The USA is about to run out of lots of stuff, except Fascists. And even if you do have stuff to sell, pricing it is impossible what with tariff uncertainty.
Meanwhile, my son put on a birthday party the other night and the police came around. Too much noise, apparently. Good lad.
Pigmy Pony
28-07-2025, 06:44
I saw on the news ole Trumpy Bum bangin' on about his golf course being the best in the world, and also slagging off our 'windmills'.
Now if I was Musk I'd do two things: first I would throw a couple of billion at making a better golf course than Trumps (somewhere with nice weather), and I'd also buy up all the land surrounding Turnberry and cover it all with wind farms. I'm sure he could afford it.
Trump has not been seen publicly since his cabinet meeting on Tuesday... :stalks:
Trump has not been seen publicly since his cabinet meeting on Tuesday... :stalks:
I was thinking the other day that he's been a bit quiet (for him) this last month actually. The stock market has been going up as a result.
Pigmy Pony
30-08-2025, 15:46
Trump may have been a bit quiet lately, following his mate Putin's visit to Alaska (which was a complete waste of aviation fuel), but his other mates ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement), have been busy making a lot of noise:
https://www.reuters.com/business/immigration-raids-leave-crops-unharvested-california-farms-risk-2025-06-30/
When as many as 70% of the farm workers are either facing deportation or are in hiding, leaving the food to rot in the ground, just how great is America going to be?
When you think of the curent US Administration being in the pocket of (and compromised towards) sinister forces of Israel and Russia... making America "less" to the benefit others... the current madness makes MUCH more sense.
I believe History will bear this out.
Thankfully,
some State Governers aren't just writing "strong" letters but actually doing something.
Gavin Newsom, Governor of California
https://youtu.be/VulfEIZ9wYo?si=qd-2YomsSgR635uB
JB Printzker, Governor of Chicago.
https://youtu.be/Q04p3OJdhpU?si=6qN2xT4KPA47_2Wx
Theres no-one coming to save America, its up to its People.
This is not a drill.
Anyway,
just a thought.
Shits just hit the fan...
Right wing MAGA commentator Charlie Kirk just been assassinated, shot through the neck.
This guy:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G0kkX7EaMAUbMsk?format=jpg&name=small
Trump on TV today saying its the fault of all the "Leftist Rhetoric of Hate", and that his Government would hunt down everyone who encourages it.
Way to bring the Nation together Donnie.
Naa,
lets pour some petrol on the Fire and distract even more from the Epstein Files being released...
At the same time Russian Drones shot down deep into Polish Airspace... At the time (and hours after) Trump is a resteraunt in DC - no statement to the Country, no gathering of NATO leaders... nothing.
At the same time, JD Vance quoting Russian talking points about taking Ukranian land in the "peacedeal" with Ukraine.
Notice anything?
America may be compromised.
Mikeandvan
06-10-2025, 23:07
Trump related, the Ukraine war hasn't gone away, and Russia is now provoking other European states with its incursions into their air space, what it is that the Kremlin wants I don't know.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/10/05/europe-faces-pearl-harbor-moment/
The White House, currently.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxn7lwzx5po (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxn7lwzx5po)
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/976/cpsprodpb/c110/live/4daf50b0-af8d-11f0-b913-f3ce4c5c6c56.jpg.webp
You think this MF intends on leaving anytime soon?
Pigmy Pony
23-10-2025, 19:33
Shame he wasn't inside at the time.
Mikeandvan
05-11-2025, 21:23
The White House, currently.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxn7lwzx5po (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxn7lwzx5po)
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/976/cpsprodpb/c110/live/4daf50b0-af8d-11f0-b913-f3ce4c5c6c56.jpg.webp
You think this MF intends on leaving anytime soon?
It's gonna be a Putin style rollover presidency.
Rush2112
13-11-2025, 07:22
If anyone seriously believes Trump sees himself as only a two term President then they must have been on another planet since January the 20th this year ! He has from day one carried out a continous campaign of ignoring the Constitution of the USA and exceeding the authority of the office of President, he has one agenda and only one agenda, his agenda, he has no interest in the needs of the majority of the American people just his needs and interests. Trump has already issued 212 Executive Orders in 11 months including removing the USA from the WHO, and authorising the Unleashing of Alaska's Extraordinary Resource Potential (allowing almost unrestricted oil and gas exploration in one of the worlds most important ecological and biodiverse environments), Biden ony issued 162 Executive Orders in 48 months many of which were COVID related and therefore in response to extraordinary events !
" It is a paradox that every dictator has climbed to power on the ladder of free speech. Immediately on attaining power each dictator has suppressed all free speech except his own."
Herbert Hoover - 31st American President, from March 4, 1929*– March 4, 1933 (Republican)
Sent from my SM-A356B using Tapatalk
If anyone seriously believes Trump sees himself as only a two term President then they must have been on another planet since January the 20th this year !
I think he'd like to stay as President until he falls off his perch but it can't happen so it won't happen. We had all this last time and of course nothing came of it.
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