Fooked potentiometer

[Mikeandvan]

Per title, on me Sugden a21a, bought off some person from PFM. The volume pot is catching, who can I send this to apart from Sugden themselves? I heard they're overstretched atm.

[Barry]

In what way is it "fooked"?

[Lawrence001]

Often happens in the post if not packed well or dropped badly. Probably a bent pot shaft. How long ago did you buy it?

[Mikeandvan]

Often happens in the post if not packed well or dropped badly. Probably a bent pot shaft. How long ago did you buy it?

I've had it about 6 monthss, it's onky recently started acting up. Just feels like its catching.

[Mikeandvan]

In what way is it "fooked"?

is resistant to being turned past quarter to.

[Barry]

Agree, probably a bent shaft.

BTW, you quote the seller's name - have you contacted him regarding the problem? Since he is not a member here, he is unable to defend himself. (At least you have had the good grace to remove the offensive epithet.)

[mikeyb]

is resistant to being turned past quarter to.Firebottle might be able to help, volume pots are an easy replacement. It'll no doubt be an Alps blue.

Hope you get it sorted, they look good amps, and I did think about trying one in the past.

Edit: I've just googled Sugden volume pots and faulty ones seem to be very common, but that's across the whole range of their amps not just the 21a.

[Edward]

If that Suggie was mine (which it is not) I would open her up, have a look for anything bent (likely not as it was fine for at least 6 months), spray some deox into the pot and give it a turn a few times. Likely will be fine. YMMV of course.

[Mikeandvan]

Thanks all, what's deox? Is there an alternaive? Personally i think it needs a service, it might be sounding a bit rough, not sure.

[Lawrence001]

Deoxit spray most pots have a little hole you can spray a tiny amount in then turn it like 20 or more times to work it through.

If it's a sealed pot you can still take the knob off and point the tube attachment at the gap between the pot shaft and the outer ring. But don't use much.

[Pigmy Pony]

Caig Deoxit. At 20-odd quid a tin quite pricey, but I suppose it goes a long way.

[Mikeandvan]

Caig Deoxit. At 20-odd quid a tin quite pricey, but I suppose it goes a long way.

Can't help thinking that would be terribly cheap if it wasn't associated with hifi.

[Mikeandvan]

Deoxit spray most pots have a little hole you can spray a tiny amount in then turn it like 20 or more times to work it through.

If it's a sealed pot you can still take the knob off and point the tube attachment at the gap between the pot shaft and the outer ring. But don't use much.

Thanks, must be an alternative, £25 for a small tin seems like bullshit hifi prices to me.

[struth]

deoxit is the berries and a can will likely last a lifetime. its great for cleaning and good for lots of things. it improves the intermittent connections etc. super for removing oxidization too.
probably the best buy you can make in audio.
dunno if its what you require tho. probably need to open it up and see if it looks damaged etc. fit another pot and it'll likey be fine for another 10 yrs

[Pigmy Pony]

Even though Sugden may have a long waiting list for service and repairs, if you can find the pot is the issue, perhaps they could just send out the part quickly for you to have the work done elsewhere.

[Lawrence001]

Is it remote volume?

[Mikeandvan]

Is it remote volume?

I wish

[Lawrence001]

Cheaper to sort then anyway.

[Mikeandvan]

Now the on/off buttons fooked!

[Lawrence001]

Oh dear you're not having much luck with it.

[Mikeandvan]

Oh dear you're not having much luck with it.

Beginning to think these amps aren't that reliable, I had another off ebay, it was knackered too. This one apparently had a recent service as well, but I don't think they really do much on a regular service, time to start buying younger amps methinks.

[Macca]

what is an amplifier 'service' though? With a vehicle what happens in a service tends to be fairly precisely defined but for an amplifier? Either components are faulty and need replacing, in which case it is a repair not a service, or they are not and it's fine.

So what happens in these services? Take the lid off, blow out the dust with compressed air, put lid back on. That'll be eighty quid please.

[Lawrence001]

A proper (dealer) service should check the amp is within spec, bias hasn't drifted and adjust if necessary etc. and provide a list of checks completed.

[Mikeandvan]

Got a much newer a21 Suggie off Pinkfiish, its the later signature model, only 18 months old, nice to have a remote again, though it does't have a mute button and appears to be designed backwards, with the bottom being silmmer than the top, should be the other way around so it sits in the palm of one's hand. Anyway, its was £1400, so not bad, playing it now, sounds ok, goes louder than my Valve amp, which is good.

[Mikeandvan]

This amp is tasty, but the brightness is even worse!!!

[Lawrence001]

Have you ever got your system to not sound bright?

[Mikeandvan]

Have you ever got your system to not sound bright?

I remember back in 1999 I had a pair of B&W 602s, which I returned to the shop cos I thought the tweeter was knackered!! He said it was and replaced it (free of charge under warrranty), but I reckon he just conned me!!

[Lawrence001]

Strange as I would have thought with a broken tweeter it would sound just right to your ears [emoji23]

[Mikeandvan]

Strange as I would have thought with a broken tweeter it would sound just right to your ears [emoji23]

That's the thing, it obviously wasn't broken, it's just my hearing, the guy got a commission to fix these things!

[zanash]

That's the thing, it obviously wasn't broken, it's just my hearing, the guy got a commission to fix these things!

Ive read this thread with a little interest [oops that could be read as no interest !]. Ok, so my feeling is having heard a number of sugden amps over the years is that they sound full and rich but will allow the tonality of the source equipment to shine through. I'm not a fan of the 1200 and was not blown away by the meridian, both edging towards bright and forward. So I'm asking the question could it be your sources that are the issue soundwise rather than the amp thats just playing the signal it being passed? Two of the very best sounding systems Ive heard in homes have both used the sugden a21, one with big monitor audios model escapes me and the other with quad esl 63. So in good fettle an a21 should be a clear "window" for the source.

[struth]

maybe its the musical style thats tiring you instead of the equipment. i know nowadays as much of a rock head i was when younger, it(rock) does tire me quite quickly now. other musical styles will no doubt do the same i guess

[Mikeandvan]

Ive read this thread with a little interest [oops that could be read as no interest !]. Ok, so my feeling is having heard a number of sugden amps over the years is that they sound full and rich but will allow the tonality of the source equipment to shine through. I'm not a fan of the 1200 and was not blown away by the meridian, both edging towards bright and forward. So I'm asking the question could it be your sources that are the issue soundwise rather than the amp thats just playing the signal it being passed? Two of the very best sounding systems Ive heard in homes have both used the sugden a21, one with big monitor audios model escapes me and the other with quad esl 63. So in good fettle an a21 should be a clear "window" for the source.

I think it's complete bollocks that so and so turntable sounds a certain way, it's entirely dependent on what cartridge is on it. The G08 may be bright, I don't know, wouldn't mind trying one of the older Meridians, only you know, reliability is an issue with the older players.

[Mikeandvan]

maybe its the musical style thats tiring you instead of the equipment. i know nowadays as much of a rock head i was when younger, it(rock) does tire me quite quickly now. other musical styles will no doubt do the same i guess

That confines me to solo gutair!

[AJSki2fly]

I think it's complete bollocks that so and so turntable sounds a certain way, it's entirely dependent on what cartridge is on it. The G08 may be bright, I don't know, wouldn't mind trying one of the older Meridians, only you know, reliability is an issue with the older players.

You're view is correct in some aspects Mike, the cartridge and the Phono stage used to the amplifier(s) has a very big impact on the end result, however as I have found out through various TTs they can and do have a part to play in the output in terms of sound, bass is the most obvious, a light weight platter will result less bass depth and control whereas a higher-mass one will be better, also more blackness I have found, depth to dynamic range. TTs with arms that are not adjustable can be an issue, VTA can be compromise, too high and it will sound bright and too low and it will become boomy.

As for your Meridian G08 it is known to be smooth and controlled not emphasising any aspect of the music, basically a very good CDP, so this is very unlikely to be causing your issues.

[Macca]

As for your Meridian G08 it is known to be smooth and controlled not emphasising any aspect of the music, basically a very good CDP, so this is very unlikely to be causing your issues.

I would say the chance is as close to zero as you can get.

[Mikeandvan]

Thinking slightly smaller speakers might help. My listening/living room isn't that big at all.

[Macca]

Thinking slightly smaller speakers might help. My listening/living room isn't that big at all.

I think you just need some speakers which are a lot better than the ones you've been buying. You're drinking beer but your taste is for champagne. :)

[Lawrence001]

To be fair those Audio Notes were supposed to be good (you tried a pair didn't you?). And I've got good results from relatively budget speakers before with good (but not high end) equipment.

There's definitely something going on but I do wonder if it's your hearing/taste and mid/treble sensitivity.

[AJSki2fly]

What are the room dimensions Mike, I know of some speakers currently for sale(not mine) that might work well and as Martin says and I confer the speakers are one of the most important bits.

The Sugden a21 amp is a very good amp and is known for its smooth sound and no review highlight top end harshness, I know the Audio Innovations S500 very well having had two of them and at the price point are a favourite of mine and one I would consider returning to a review I came across "Transparent, musical and very untiring to listen to. Very critical of source components but will sound louder than 25W" I would second.

I do not know the Proacs you have but note this review comment "The Studio 140 does an excellent job illuminating high percussion information. The microdynamics and transient speed elicited from the many delicate ticks and pings of the percussionist during Holly Cole’s “Train” on Temptation [Alert] flirted with some of best reproduction I’ve experienced with this disc. But on Sinatra’s Only the Lonely [Capitol], “Angel Eyes” had a bit of edge where the Studio 140 adds some extra mid-treble sparkle." see https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/proac-studio-140-loudspeaker/ Its likely reviewer speak for saying they can be bright without actually saying so.

So my thought are in line with Martin, its likely the speakers are the issue, especially if you are top end sensitive. :scratch:

[Macca]

To be fair those Audio Notes were supposed to be good (you tried a pair didn't you?)

Audio Note speakers always astonish me with their odd sound. They measure poorly with FR all over the shop. Yes, some swear by them, but there is no doubt that their presentation of some musical programme will be - and I'm being charitable here - unpredictable.

[Lawrence001]

They're just fancy 2 way Snells aren't they, were they as bad?

[Mikeandvan]

What are the room dimensions Mike, I know of some speakers currently for sale(not mine) that might work well and as Martin says and I confer the speakers are one of the most important bits.

The Sugden a21 amp is a very good amp and is known for its smooth sound and no review highlight top end harshness, I know the Audio Innovations S500 very well having had two of them and at the price point are a favourite of mine and one I would consider returning to a review I came across "Transparent, musical and very untiring to listen to. Very critical of source components but will sound louder than 25W" I would second.

I do not know the Proacs you have but note this review comment "The Studio 140 does an excellent job illuminating high percussion information. The microdynamics and transient speed elicited from the many delicate ticks and pings of the percussionist during Holly Cole’s “Train” on Temptation [Alert] flirted with some of best reproduction I’ve experienced with this disc. But on Sinatra’s Only the Lonely [Capitol], “Angel Eyes” had a bit of edge where the Studio 140 adds some extra mid-treble sparkle." see https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/proac-studio-140-loudspeaker/ Its likely reviewer speak for saying they can be bright without actually saying so.

So my thought are in line with Martin, its likely the speakers are the issue, especially if you are top end sensitive. :scratch:

Hi Adrian.
My current listening room in 4.2M long (wall to window bay), and 3.7M wide (sofa hence listening position to wall which hifi and speakers are sited).



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52642585016_5e77d7d42c_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52642584926_ec06843bcb_z.jpg

[Mikeandvan]

I think you just need some speakers which are a lot better than the ones you've been buying. You're drinking beer but your taste is for champagne. :)

Emmm, well, the Suggie with these 140s is starting to grow on me, the bass on the 140s could be ill defined with the S500 or older a21 I had, but its much better defined with this A21 sig, quite a joy actually. The brightness persists though with wind/string instruments at high treble, so new speakers are on the horizon. What to look for, considering my room size (not very big), I sit only less than 3 metres away from the speakers!

[Lawrence001]

I sit about the same distance as you from mine and they're about 4' tall with 2x8" midrange and a 12" woofer so I wouldn't worry too much.

[Macca]

Emmm, well, the Suggie with these 140s is starting to grow on me, the bass on the 140s could be ill defined with the S500 or older a21 I had, but its much better defined with this A21 sig, quite a joy actually. The brightness persists though with wind/string instruments at high treble, so new speakers are on the horizon. What to look for, considering my room size (not very big), I sit only less than metres away from the speakers!

I think last time you were looking I suggested the Wharfedale Linton Heritage.

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Adrian.
My current listening room in 4.2M long (wall to window bay), and 3.7M wide (sofa hence listening position to wall which hifi and speakers are sited).



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52642585016_5e77d7d42c_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52642584926_ec06843bcb_z.jpg

Your walls look a bit bear, if they are all like that then it is likely that you will be getting higher frequency reflections and enhancement, to calm things down a bit get some cheap wall hanging art from TK Max and put up, or a thin rug especially behind where you sit. You can buy acoustic foam like this https://advancedacoustics-uk.com/products/mel-acoustic-slab-25mm-white-melamine-acoustic-foam-panel-600x1200 to put into the art frames behind the canvas which helps even more, I did this and it helped. You could initially try and experiment with an old blanket or one of those sofa throws https://www.amazon.co.uk/EHEYCIGA-Blankets-Flannel-shedding-130x165cm/dp/B08T9FFPYF/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3GL5OCEUUE4I9&keywords=sofa+throw&qid=1674475133&sprefix=sofa+throw%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1, hung up to see how it helps.

Don't underestimate how a room can effect the sound or the speaker position. A lively undamped room with speakers that enhance the top end may make it sound a bit harsh or aggressive, apart from getting odd acoustics going on from reflected sound off the walls. You might find with a little room treatment the speakers are fine.

[Macca]

Blanket over the telly when listening. That's a big reflective panel where ideally you want some sort of diffuser.

Coffee table won't help but for practical purposes it has to be there I suppose. Put more clutter on it!

Absorption on the wall behind your settee will help a lot. A large plant or something to the right of the right-hand speaker to reduce early reflections from that wall. A rug on top of the carpet directly in front of the speakers to reduce HF floor bounce.

Loads you can do without spending any serious money and it will all give benefits.

[Mikeandvan]

I think last time you were looking I suggested the Wharfedale Linton Heritage.

Yeh, the reviews sound promising. Might try a pair.

[Mikeandvan]

Yeh, I keep meaning to buy something to put on the walls, just for decorative purposes!

[AJSki2fly]

Yeh, I keep meaning to buy something to put on the walls, just for decorative purposes!

These also are reasonably priced, there are different sizes and a selection of prints/designs. https://www.amazon.co.uk/murando-absorption-acoustics-soundproofing-0032-b-m/dp/B09L81HVLG/ref=sr_1_111?crid=KPC0OO5IC5UY&keywords=acoustic%2Bpanels%2Bart&qid=1674481550&sprefix=acoustic%2Bpanels%2Bart%2Caps%2C67&sr=8-111&th=1Based on my tests at home you would get a more balance sound, well worth trying out before you splash out on other speakers, unless you just want to try out some other speakers.

By the way if you go down the GIK acoustics type of panels then you can multiply the cost by 3-4 times.

[Mikeandvan]

Just ordered a pair of the Lintons, I read two reviews, and they seem to be what I'm looking for. They were £1100 with the stands, that was the best price I could find, bought them on 0% finance too, so ain't gonna hurt the pocket too much. They certainly look the part, fingers crossed on how they're gonna sound!

[Macca]

I'm in trouble now if you hate them. :D

[Lawrence001]

Oh sh1t [emoji23]

[Mikeandvan]

I'm in trouble now if you hate them. :D

haha, no, I know enough about hifi now to expect the worst! What I liked about the reviews is that they said they suited music made in the time the originals were around - the 60s/70s, and it quoted an Alice coltrane LP which it said was rendered listenable, whilst other speakers made it sound thin. They sound exactly what I'm looking for, and they look great with the stands they come with. But as ever, won't know until I get them. The Suggie might not appear to be a good match on paper, but I don;t think this edition of the a21 is as warm sounding as earlier ones. Aldo the suggie with the proacs renders high pitched wind instruments absolutely unlistenable, so something had to give. Was tempted to go back to the valve amp, but I just miss the pin point bass and snappiness of solid state.

[Mikeandvan]

Don't know how I lived so long without a remote control.

[Pigmy Pony]

Don't know how I lived so long without a remote control.

Yeah, for a lot of people 'no remote' would be a deal breaker. I use a remote for the Sky box and telly, but as for the amp and CD player remotes, well they're round here somewhere, probably in a drawer.

Mrs. Pony had an all-in-one voice-activated remote for putting kettle on, putting bins out and emptying dishwasher. She just starts her command with "Oi", and it happens. Eventually.

Good luck with the Lintons, if they sound as good as they look, you'll be a happy bunny. For about a month :ner: Just kidding

[AJSki2fly]

Just ordered a pair of the Lintons, I read two reviews, and they seem to be what I'm looking for. They were £1100 with the stands, that was the best price I could find, bought them on 0% finance too, so ain't gonna hurt the pocket too much. They certainly look the part, fingers crossed on how they're gonna sound!

I hope they do the business for you, as the man said in Stereophile review careful posting or it may get a bit Boom Boom, they are twin rear ported so to be expected if too near the wall behind them..

"After some experimentation, I ended up with the Lintons' cabinet fronts about 43" from the wall behind them. I liked having the Lintons toed in so that the tweeters' lines of sight crossed just in front of my nose. In this position, the Dead's "Ripple" still had a touch more bass swell than I prefer, but the sound was sweet, deep, elegantly detailed, and harmonically extended overall."

[Mikeandvan]

I hope they do the business for you, as the man said in Stereophile review careful posting or it may get a bit Boom Boom, they are twin rear ported so to be expected if too near the wall behind them..

"After some experimentation, I ended up with the Lintons' cabinet fronts about 43" from the wall behind them. I liked having the Lintons toed in so that the tweeters' lines of sight crossed just in front of my nose. In this position, the Dead's "Ripple" still had a touch more bass swell than I prefer, but the sound was sweet, deep, elegantly detailed, and harmonically extended overall."

Shit, that's almost 4 foot! I can site them about 2ft away from the wall, if they need more, I'd have to change the room around, if that's possible. Can I block the ports as an alternative?

[Mikeandvan]

Yeah, for a lot of people 'no remote' would be a deal breaker. I use a remote for the Sky box and telly, but as for the amp and CD player remotes, well they're round here somewhere, probably in a drawer.

Mrs. Pony had an all-in-one voice-activated remote for putting kettle on, putting bins out and emptying dishwasher. She just starts her command with "Oi", and it happens. Eventually.

Good luck with the Lintons, if they sound as good as they look, you'll be a happy bunny. For about a month :ner: Just kidding

It didn't help that my old amp was basically on the floor, and I'm tall! Now new amp on the floor, not an issue, and cd player has been raised up a level, so easier to load, just need to find a remote for that, don't know why it didn;t come with one.

[Pigmy Pony]

It didn't help that my old amp was basically on the floor, and I'm tall! Now new amp on the floor, not an issue, and cd player has been raised up a level, so easier to load, just need to find a remote for that, don't know why it didn;t come with one.

Marantz remotes seem to work with almost everything :scratch:

[Mikeandvan]

These Lintons are taking an age to arrive, meanwhile pulling my Proacs out another foot from the wall seems to have improved things ever so slightly, or has it? Either way this Suggie Sig. is rather good. Go past 9 oclock though and it gets rather loud.

[Mikeandvan]

Finally here, took ages coming because someone ordered the wrong colour!! They came in boxes labelled L and R, left and right, why is that? Where the hell am I gonna put all these boxes while I decide whether I like them or not!! Looks wise they do the job anyway.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52680693780_370ff77da5_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52680693655_34c642c8c5_z.jpg

[struth]

position of the tweeter

[Mikeandvan]

position of the tweeter

Ah ok thanks

[AJSki2fly]

Ah ok thanks

I hope you are intending to putting the Lintons on stands, even it temporary ones. :)

[struth]

I hope you are intending to putting the Lintons on stands, even it temporary ones. :)

he has stands there for them.. saw the boxes. lovely speakers.

[Barry]

And Mike might even christen them with the Buffy Sainte-Marie 'Illuminations' LP at the front of the stack. ;)

[Macca]

new speaker day!

Guess I will have to wait a while longer to find out if I am in trouble.

[Mikeandvan]

And Mike might even christen them with the Buffy Sainte-Marie 'Illuminations' LP at the front of the stack. ;)

Well spotted!

[Mikeandvan]

Played a few LPs, first impressions are bass is warmer, the stridency in the tweeters seems to prevail, but haven't played enough LPs yet to confirm that. I've got them 2ft from the wall (the front of the speakers are exactly 3ft from the wall), and the bass hasn't boomed yet, so that's good. I'll see how I get on with them. Only speakers I've ever bought new apart from a pair of B&W 601 s2's I had 23 years ago. Is speaker 'run in' a thing, or just another hifi myth?

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[Macca]

speaker run in is mostly a myth. A couple of hours with something bassy you will have certainly have done all the running in.
Try them without any toe-in, you might find that a bit less strident.

[Mikeandvan]

I really wish I had a bigger listening room. Think I might move flat to achieve that.

[Mikeandvan]

Yeh, speaker run in definitely a marketing ploy. Been using these about a week now, and not much difference stridency wise, the bass is a deeper and richer, and they do not boom, which is good. I detect some slight improvements with 60s guitar based rock/pop which takes up a fair amount of my listening, a more spacious feel, those jangly sharp high notes a bit easier on the ear. With jazz very slight improvements with the high wind instruments - I think , will have to go back to the Proacs to confirm. So, I switched back to using my valve amp - the S500 with the Lintons and the sound is considerably easier on the ear, though at first seemed a bit dead, had to turn up the volume way further than the suggie to get even close, the suggie goes loud quickly. Listening now to the Beatles and it's not bad at all, quite an easy sound, one I could live with. The s500/linton combo also made many of my jazz cds I was having difficulty with better, still a bit shrill, but not nails on chalkboard shrill. I think perhaps I want speakers even easier on the ear than these ones, perhaps I should look to vintage models? Original wharfedales or those Tannoys perhaps? Need something not too big for my room though, which is about 14ft square. I think vintage speakers with the Suggie might do it, the right amount of bite and tweeter easiness. Or perhaps vintage speakers and a valve amp is what I need? Either way I need a remote control for the amp, as I hate getting up to change the volume, so the S500 might have to go.

[Scooby]

Have you considered room treatments: Particularly behind/between the speakers, and behind your head? It looks like you will have a lot of reflections. That telly screen will reflect sound too. Lightly furnished rooms can impact sound and with yours being roughly square, it’s already at a disadvantage.

It’s surprising how much the room can do to ruin your sound. Even trying pillows, blankets and duvets as an experiment may tell you if the room is dragging your sound down.

[Macca]

a bit of room treatment plus some EQ -get a graphic equaliser and pull the mids down just a little with the 60s stuff - the problem is not the speakers you won't fix it buying worse speakers

[walpurgis]

Have you listened to any speakers with ribbon tweeters Mike? Some find them easier to listen to at the top end as distortion can be low and the treble smooth. Some electrostatics can do this too.

[Macca]

Those Wharfedales already have smooth response and very low distortion - I wouldn't have suggested them otherwise!

[struth]

speaker run in is mostly a myth. A couple of hours with something bassy you will have certainly have done all the running in.
Try them without any toe-in, you might find that a bit less strident.

i used to tilt the speakers up at front slightly.. made a huge difference... not much either or toe them out ever so slightly ; sometimes both

[struth]

pity we are so far away or you could have had my old homemade ones... they are so laid back and non strident you can go to sleep... surprisingly good tho and silly efficient

[Jimbo]

Try adding as much soft furnishings to the room as possible or if you can try a bit of room treatment as it will take away a fair bit of harshness especially first reflection points.

[Pigmy Pony]

Before you go buying speakers (again), try a pair of these, only a tenner and come in 11 different colours!

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61yDvrxm4TL._AC_UX679_.jpg

[Barry]

Before you go buying speakers (again), try a pair of these, only a tenner and come in 11 different colours!

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61yDvrxm4TL._AC_UX679_.jpg

They look to be just ear warmers. :lol:

[Pigmy Pony]

They look to be just ear warmers. :lol:

I prefer to call them 'personal room treatment'. Keeping your lugs warm just an added bonus :)

[Bourney]

Gotta be your lug'oles Mike ��

[Pigmy Pony]

Gotta be your lug'oles Mike ��

My thoughts too. If he is finding speakers known to have a 'smooth response' to be brash sounding, I wonder if a visit to an audiologist might be able to confirm if Mike is particularly sensitive to certain frequencies, and if so enable him to make a measurement-based decision on speaker/room acoustics.

[Mikeandvan]

Have you listened to any speakers with ribbon tweeters Mike? Some find them easier to listen to at the top end as distortion can be low and the treble smooth. Some electrostatics can do this too.

No, that could be an option, any to look out for? Not too spendy.

[Mikeandvan]

Before you go buying speakers (again), try a pair of these, only a tenner and come in 11 different colours!

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61yDvrxm4TL._AC_UX679_.jpg

Or just turn the music off!

[Mikeandvan]

Gotta be your lug'oles Mike ��

Yeh must be, see the other thread 'Misophonia'.

[Mikeandvan]

Listening to one of my more difficult jazz cds, Jimmy Smith - Sermon, at first glance this wouldn't appear to be a strident recording, but it does contain a good deal of high pitched trumpet, which is now rendered listenable with the Linton/S500 combo. I think going back to the Suggie sig is gonna be a shock, it goes much louder much quicker than the easier going S500, really didn't want to have to give up remote control on volume though, that's a bitch. Not decided yet. will play around with these 2 amps for another few months. I'll have a look for a textile wall hanging to go behind my sofa perhaps? Apart from that can't see what else I can do with the room acoustics. The room has carpet and curtains for a start. On the plus side I got a remote for the Meridian - a Logitech Harmony hand remote (not a wifi hub thingy thank God).

Also gonna stop listening to 60s rock on cd, just a bad idea. Will stick to vinyl with that genre. I don't care what anyone says, cd has a way sharper sound, not sure whether this 'high end' Meridian G08 accentuates that or not. Was thinking of trying one of their older players, like the 206.

[walpurgis]

No, that could be an option, any to look out for? Not too spendy.

I don't know what's on the market these days Mike, it's years since I used ribbons. I like them though.

[struth]

60's rock etc is inclined to be like that, much of it was recorded to be replayed on decks like binatone etc and wasnt made to sound hifi. beatles stuff is a good example

[Barry]

I don't know what's on the market these days Mike, it's years since I used ribbons. I like them though.

You might be interested in this Russian ribbon tweeter: https://hificompass.com/en/reviews/viawave-srt-7-ribbon-tweeter#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20best%20world,ther e's%20nothing%20to%20do%20here. In getting on for around £500 apiece, they are far from cheap, but do seem to have an impressive performance.

[Macca]

60's rock etc is inclined to be like that, much of it was recorded to be replayed on decks like binatone etc and wasnt made to sound hifi. beatles stuff is a good example

yes they can be quite crude recordings so that's a factor but I am thinking Mike has some sort of hearing anomaly/damage or whatever that accentuates the problem.

An EQ unit is the answer, either analogue or digital. You can pick up a decent analogue one on eBay for a ton. Likely the problem frequencies will be were the ear is most sensitive which is below were most tweeters kick in fully - around 1-3Khz. Need an EQ to just bring those frequencies down a bit with the 60s stuff.

Getting a four or five large, leafy plants and dotting them around the room just to scatter and absorb some HF would help a little too, without making the place look like a studio.

[Barry]

Something like this might fit the bill: https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/7458055937024562452?lsf=seller:386224,store:184938 8060727828731,lsfqd:0&prds=oid:15539423265567186765&q=equaliser&hl=en&ei=-S71Y9TZLbWOhbIP6YWdmAk&sts=14&lsft=gclid:EAIaIQobChMIltCuoL-n_QIVDpntCh3gxgH4EAQYAyABEgKn4vD_BwE

£150

[Pigmy Pony]

Getting a four or five large, leafy plants and dotting them around the room just to scatter and absorb some HF would help a little too, without making the place look like a studio.

Couple of these should do the trick

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~50AAOSwH5JggVNZ/s-l400.jpg

[Mikeandvan]

Couple of these should do the trick

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~50AAOSwH5JggVNZ/s-l400.jpg

+ the ear muffs, I'll be sorted. Supreme hifi experience.

[Mikeandvan]

Not sure I want an EQ in my system, don't they degrade the SQ? Besides I cannae be arsed getting up to change it. System not sounding bad now at all, quite happy (place your bets, how long will this system last?). Thing is I'm using the s500 valve amp, but I want a remote for the volume! Are there any decent valve amps out there with remotes? Or even solid state with remotes but which sound 'valvey'. The older suggie I still have was ok, but no remote! The new one is too harsh.

[Macca]

a quality EQ unit won't degrade the sound (that's just a myth) and will make your old recordings easier to listen to.

There's no such thing a the 'valve sound', it's just the interaction of the output transformer and the speaker impedance curve changing the frequency response. It's an EQ unit but with only one setting.

[Lawrence001]

Someone is selling a modded AI 500 on the Wam with a remote added but they took the phono stage out to fit it.

[Mikeandvan]

Someone is selling a modded AI 500 on the Wam with a remote added but they took the phono stage out to fit it.

Yer, he only wants £450 for it. I got an S500 already though, modded extensively by AD audio, I might ask him about putting a remote in, as I'm happy using a separate phono.

[Mikeandvan]

Playing Talking Heads first LP now (on vinyl), I haven't played this one in a while due to system stridency, and its sounding the best I can remember. The deeper bass on these Lintons is likely helping, quite a punchy sound overall. The LP also sounds quite different to the last time I played it, string instruments sounding a tad odd at first, but I realise that's greater transparency, I'd put that down to the cart, the AT 540ML is quite a bargain methinks.

[struth]

a quality EQ unit won't degrade the sound (that's just a myth) and will make your old recordings easier to listen to.

There's no such thing a the 'valve sound', it's just the interaction of the output transformer and the speaker impedance curve changing the frequency response. It's an EQ unit but with only one setting.

some have a link through so you can byepass them when not wanted as well. i have used digi ones on pc programs where needed.

[Macca]

some have a link through so you can byepass them when not wanted as well. i have used digi ones on pc programs where needed.

Yes, I have three and they all have bypass.

[Mikeandvan]

Emm, listening tonight to some Motown, and these speakers shortcomings are starting to show, tubby, bass heavy sound, either that or they just don't work in my room, next!

[Macca]

that sounds more like it's that Audio Innovations thing you're using.

Is it the same with the Sugden? I'd have thought that would be a reasonable match. Maybe a bit underpowered if you want it loud though.

[Mikeandvan]

that sounds more like it's that Audio Innovations thing you're using.

Is it the same with the Sugden? I'd have thought that would be a reasonable match. Maybe a bit underpowered if you want it loud though.

That might be the case, I'll plug the suggie back in later, it goes plenty loud.

[Pigmy Pony]

Emm, listening tonight to some Motown, and these speakers shortcomings are starting to show, tubby, bass heavy sound, either that or they just don't work in my room, next!

Maybe that's just the 'Motown Sound'.

[Bourney]

Sometimes, im just not in the mood for hifi listening, I think when I'm in this mood, I get too picky and only hear what my setbup isn't doing well. It's best to just turn off and play through an echo dot or something.

[Pigmy Pony]

Sometimes, im just not in the mood for hifi listening, I think when I'm in this mood, I get too picky and only hear what my setbup isn't doing well. It's best to just turn off and play through an echo dot or something.

That's the spirit, you can lower your expectations and just relax into the music. We have our Echo Dot streaming through 2nd set up while we sit and eat, it's very listenable.

[Mikeandvan]

Maybe that's just the 'Motown Sound'.

Motown sound is certainly bassy, but not boomy.

[Mikeandvan]

Put the suggie back in, played the same Motown LP, some improvement, quite listenable. Played some Donald Byrd - Stepping into tomorrow, and a beautiful sound, a tad bass heavy, but very enjoyable. Will try this combo again for a bit, but it will likely grate with high pitched horns!

[Macca]

reminds me I got to buy some more Donald Byrd albums.

[Mikeandvan]

reminds me I got to buy some more Donald Byrd albums.

Get this one, it's ****ing awesome. 'Stepping into tomorrow'.

https://www.onbuy.com/gb/stepping-into-tomorrow~c5629~p6840358/?exta=gshp&extac=gshppa&stat=eyJpcCI6IjYuNTQwMCIsImRwIjowLCJsaWQiOjM4NDU5N jA1LCJzIjoiMSIsInQiOjE2NzcwNzQ4MzQsImJtYyI6MH0=&exta=gshp&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=18140820701&utm_medium=pmax&utm_content=&gclid=CjwKCAiAxvGfBhB-EiwAMPakqg3wYkNASsjKK7AYuXXrmLEvw2yz7Km3fB6VNkhfiq O_-9qkLP7f-xoCG_MQAvD_BwE

[Mikeandvan]

Swapped the Lintons out for the Proacs this morning, as I've loads of free time due to having virtually no work!! Anyway, in comparison the 140s sounded thin, not unpleasant, obviously I lived with and enjoyed this speaker for about a year, but the Lintons offer a broader sound if you like. So I'll be selling the Proacs now, as clearly these older style of speakers are better suited to my tastes/hearing. Even though the bass can be a bit bloomy/ill defined. But I think the Linton/Suggie combo is gonna stay. I think for the size of listening rooms I tend to live in, that a smaller closed speaker might ultimately suit, unless i manage to move to a larger place. I'm wondering what a pair of old Tannoy Eatons would sound like?

[walpurgis]

I'm wondering what a pair of old Tannoy Eatons would sound like?

You'd probably be shocked initially. Immediate impressions would be of colourations and a considerable amount of punch for their size, it's only once you 'tune in' to what's happening that it starts coming together. The HPD 295A Eaton is a favourite of mine, the imaging is great and the mid transparency lets you hear deep into the mix. The bigger Devon is poor in comparison in my view.

[Mikeandvan]

Thinking of getting my old Sugden a21a up and running, anyone know a place that repairs them apart from Sugden themselves? It has a sticky volume potentiometer, a knackered on/off switch, and phono only operating on one channel.

[Mikeandvan]

Had to move the Lintons out 3.5 ft (from middle of top) into the room as the bass was booming summit rotten, quite a bit better now, and a pleasant listen. But still a slight boom on some music, can one do anything else apart from pull speakers out from wall? My room is a bit limited in terms of positioning.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52796262799_098a08d349_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52796414185_4f57f20576_z.jpg

[Lawrence001]

Stuff the ports, I think they have them?

[Mikeandvan]

Stuff the ports, I think they have them?

Oh shit, I forgot about that rather obvious step!! What with, socks?

[Macca]

drinking straws recommended often although I've never tried it.

get an equalizer it will give you complete control.

[Pigmy Pony]

I'm surprised Wharfedale didn't supply bungs for these. Have a look in the bottom of the box. With some B&W speakers I bought many years ago came two sets of foam bungs of different densities. And they were more 'budget' than your Lintons.

[walpurgis]

Acoustic foam port bungs are available. They are made from open pore foam like Declon and reduce air flow. Straws also reduce air flow slightly, but their main purpose is to create a linear air movement and stop port 'chuffing'. Remember, anything introduced into bass ports alters the bass resonance.

[walpurgis]

If anybody wants to experiment, open cell foam in various grades is available in sheet form for filters and can be rolled into bungs. Just look on ebay for filter foam sheet and you can make your own.

[Lawrence001]

Oh shit, I forgot about that rather obvious step!! What with, socks?Yes socks. Also you can tune the port by making it smaller. Eg. A short length of flat foam rolled into a circle making a smaller hole in the centre.

[Mikeandvan]

Thanks, I'm foaming at the mouth at all these replies.

[Bourney]

Port Stuffing kills overal dynamics and subtlety in the bass IME, once you get into that, you're kidding yourself into trying to enjoy something you know isn't quite right.
Everything is a compromise but 'boom' I just can't live with in any way.
Try a cushion leaning against the wall behind.

[Scooby]

Agree with Bourney. Treat the room, don’t stifle the speaker. You can stick pillows, cushions and other soft furnishings in the corners as a starter.

If treating the room doesn’t help, then you may have to face the fact that this speaker isn’t right in your circs. Stuffing its port won’t make it a better speaker. IMO it will worsen it.

[AJSki2fly]

Oh shit, I forgot about that rather obvious step!! What with, socks?

Mike how big are your holes :D, speakers holes that is, in diameter. I have some foam speaker bungs in the drawer, if they are large enough you can have them.

Cheers

By the way Scooby(Andy) is probably right.

[Mikeandvan]

Mike how big are your holes :D, speakers holes that is, in diameter. I have some foam speaker bungs in the drawer, if they are large enough you can have them.

Cheers

By the way Scooby(Andy) is probably right.

Thanks Adrian, but I agree that port stuffing is a non starter. I tried it and it kills dynamics as Bourney said. The boom is only there on some records, so I can live with it for now. In time I may try another speaker.

[Mikeandvan]

Port Stuffing kills overal dynamics and subtlety in the bass IME, once you get into that, you're kidding yourself into trying to enjoy something you know isn't quite right.
Everything is a compromise but 'boom' I just can't live with in any way.
Try a cushion leaning against the wall behind.

You're exactly right, dynamics go out the window. My listening room is very limited, my sofa is back against the wall, the speakers are 3ft out from the opposite wall, these speakers really need a bigger room! But overall listening is actually quite pleasant, the boom is only prevalent on bass heavy recordings. Though I think a new speaker beckons, I'm not quite up there with you yet though in the box swapping stakes!

[Pigmy Pony]

Sounds like you're getting some boundary reinforcement of those bass frequencies, due to your sofa being against the wall. I bet if you sit forward on your sofa the bass improves. Could you perhaps bring the sofa away from the wall (just for listening)?

[Mikeandvan]

Sounds like you're getting some boundary reinforcement of those bass frequencies, due to your sofa being against the wall. I bet if you sit forward on your sofa the bass improves. Could you perhaps bring the sofa away from the wall (just for listening)?

No, I can't, the speakers need to be about 3ft away from the wall, and my sofa is already only about 6/7ft away from the speakers, any closer and they'd be more like headphones!! Changing the lay out of the room is almost impossible too, might just have to look around for new speakers, the quest continues!

[Macca]

Just get an eq unit and dial back the LF a bit, it won't harm the sound quality despite the rubbish written in the magazines. Much cheaper than keep buying speakers.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325568679204?

[Pigmy Pony]

Martin, that looks similar to the one you brought up to mine last year. Certainly was effective. I can't remember why I didn't follow it up - either it was to do with the inputs (only one pair iirc) or that I was looking at changing the speakers anyway.

Mike, you could do a lot worse than try Macca's eq suggestion - cheap to try out, and you could just sell it on if you don't like. Maybe only run it for the troublesome recordings. When I tried it in my set up there was no detriment to the SQ.

[Mikeandvan]

Emmmmmm

[Mikeandvan]

This one's got a cool display like something out of Star Trek.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354702693160?hash=item5295ed9328%3Ag%3AleoAAOSw7Nx kMBi%7E&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwAMMqbDFDiUY8ef94Wtm0rRVOdIym 70RayYIFMaBnbteRbVeuzgbhyYbu%2BzHaKeJ9rhxlWMRSJrh2 tpeNuIzFrcB7233P26P2dmEqOoihTojXDuHJ0w4ejfMngF82AP XmeaUWyeHcaoov6lwayjWRZBvSzbgOe6VXi%2BhHXf6%2FYveY f3UexPxOeLlDlcX3GK71D8DXYdhKUa6LGotxw8jPu7BSS9Qh8b UjrJTLUD2SdKbtoKkmPAOKx%2BcF7Ssrg0OVQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp% 3ABk9SR661trDtYQ&LH_Auction=1

[Macca]

Martin, that looks similar to the one you brought up to mine last year. Certainly was effective. I can't remember why I didn't follow it up - either it was to do with the inputs (only one pair iirc) or that I was looking at changing the speakers anyway.

Mike, you could do a lot worse than try Macca's eq suggestion - cheap to try out, and you could just sell it on if you don't like. Maybe only run it for the troublesome recordings. When I tried it in my set up there was no detriment to the SQ.

yes it's the same unit. Don't often recommend stuff I haven't had ears on myself. Has a bypass switch so can be defeated when not required.

[Barry]

I have one of these: a Klark Teknik DN360

https://mediadl.musictribe.com/media/PLM/data/images/products/P0AGV/2000Wx2000H/DN360_P0AGV_Front_XL.png

Probably a bit OTT for your requirements, but as Martin says, graphic equaliser could help you with your problem.

[struth]

I have one of these: a Klark Teknik DN360

https://mediadl.musictribe.com/media/PLM/data/images/products/P0AGV/2000Wx2000H/DN360_P0AGV_Front_XL.png

Probably a bit OTT for your requirements, but as Martin says, graphic equaliser could help you with your problem.

one of best you can find.. british too

[Macca]

I have the 16 band version of that but it is balanced connection only which is why I did not suggest one.

[Pigmy Pony]

one of best you can find.. british too

Looks like pro audio, I think Martin also has one by this manufacturer. Will it connect to domestic equipment?

Edit: Sorry Mart, just seen your post :doh:

[StanleyB]

You're exactly right, dynamics go out the window. My listening room is very limited, my sofa is back against the wall, the speakers are 3ft out from the opposite wall, these speakers really need a bigger room! But overall listening is actually quite pleasant, the boom is only prevalent on bass heavy recordings. Though I think a new speaker beckons, I'm not quite up there with you yet though in the box swapping stakes!

Unless you already have a pair, then try some stands. Much of the booming can be cut down that way.

[Pigmy Pony]

I think Mike's speakers have the dedicated stands.

[Mikeandvan]

I put my Proac floorstanders back in and played the records with the boom issue, and it's still there, but to a lesser extent, I think, not sure. Will see how they fare over the next week or so. They are bottom ported, and about 2ft from rear wall.

[Mikeandvan]

Pulled them out another foot from teh wall, problem persists. What's the answer, sealed box speakers?

[Lawrence001]

Worth a try. Otherwise it could be the distance between the walls, if that's the case it's room treatment or DSP (or a small speaker that doesn't play those bass notes).

[Pigmy Pony]

Or maybe small speakers with a decent quality sub. that will give you a degree of control at the bass end. Or move house :) My money's on DSP.

[Macca]

Pulled them out another foot from teh wall, problem persists. What's the answer, sealed box speakers?

is this issue just with vinyl or digital too?

Have you tried a different amplifier? The Suggie should be fine with them but maybe it isn't? Amp-speaker relationship is complex, you can't always rely on what should work on paper working in reality.

[Bourney]

I've moved to smaller sealed speakers, much easier to get right IMO.

[Mikeandvan]

I've moved to smaller sealed speakers, much easier to get right IMO.

Oh, which ones?

[Mikeandvan]

is this issue just with vinyl or digital too?

Have you tried a different amplifier? The Suggie should be fine with them but maybe it isn't? Amp-speaker relationship is complex, you can't always rely on what should work on paper working in reality.

I was thinking that today, I'll have to play some of the few cds I've got doubles of with vinyl, but pretty sure it's both, the boom was there with the S500 valve amp too, and with both speakers, so I'm guessing its room, I think I need smaller speakers, may be something like the Epos es11?

[Mikeandvan]

Or maybe small speakers with a decent quality sub. that will give you a degree of control at the bass end. Or move house :) My money's on DSP.

I'd love to move house, but I just rent and the prices in Brighton are almost London nowadays, it's a bit shit tbh.

[Mikeandvan]

Worth a try. Otherwise it could be the distance between the walls, if that's the case it's room treatment or DSP (or a small speaker that doesn't play those bass notes).

What's DSP?

[Barry]

What's DSP?

Digital Signal Processor/Processing.

[Mikeandvan]

Digital Signal Processor/Processing.

What's Digital Signal Processor/Processing :lol:

[Bourney]

Oh, which ones?
I'm using falcon LS3/5a Silvers Mike.
Superbly balanced speakers.

[Lawrence001]

+1 for those, heard them a few times at shows, lovely speakers.

[Scooby]

Realistically, you appear to have the following choices:

1. Treat the room. I don’t know if you’ve tried bass traps in the corners or whether it’s something you can live with aesthetically, but it’s very likely to deal with the issue of boom. Not without cost and also potentially aesthetically unacceptable to you. It will allow a fuller range of music to play accurately and at volume though.

2. Use EQ to change the output to counteract the room. Macca has suggested this but again you may not want to add an equaliser. Similar benefits and drawbacks to option 1.

3. Bung your speakers. You’ve already said you don’t fancy this and I don’t blame you. It’s a very blunt tool IMO and arguably does far more harm than good. Unlikely to be a long term solution.

4. Find a less problematic speaker placement. Equal distance to side and back walls is always bad and corners are really problematic, but you don’t seem to have a lot of wiggle room in this respect, so unlikely to do enough to satisfy IMO.

5. Use a speaker that doesn’t excite your room. That could be a smaller one, a speaker that is designed to work with room boundaries, or one that doesn’t go very low in its response. A ported speaker, especially one with a rear port is arguably less likely to suit, as they do tend to drone at the port frequency. These may not give the bass required for accuracy on some music, and you might have to “kiss a few frogs” before you find your match, but it should offer a decent solution long term.

[Bourney]

I've enjoyed kissing frogs over the years. Great fun :D

[Mikeandvan]

I'm using falcon LS3/5a Silvers Mike.
Superbly balanced speakers.

Are they similar to SPendor sr3 ? I tried another SPendor model too, a small floorstander, and it was the weirdest speaker I ever heard after the Royd Merlin, both sounded ridiculously small and reedy.

[Mikeandvan]

Realistically, you appear to have the following choices:

1. Treat the room. I don’t know if you’ve tried bass traps in the corners or whether it’s something you can live with aesthetically, but it’s very likely to deal with the issue of boom. Not without cost and also potentially aesthetically unacceptable to you. It will allow a fuller range of music to play accurately and at volume though.

2. Use EQ to change the output to counteract the room. Macca has suggested this but again you may not want to add an equaliser. Similar benefits and drawbacks to option 1.

3. Bung your speakers. You’ve already said you don’t fancy this and I don’t blame you. It’s a very blunt tool IMO and arguably does far more harm than good. Unlikely to be a long term solution.

4. Find a less problematic speaker placement. Equal distance to side and back walls is always bad and corners are really problematic, but you don’t seem to have a lot of wiggle room in this respect, so unlikely to do enough to satisfy IMO.

5. Use a speaker that doesn’t excite your room. That could be a smaller one, a speaker that is designed to work with room boundaries, or one that doesn’t go very low in its response. A ported speaker, especially one with a rear port is arguably less likely to suit, as they do tend to drone at the port frequency. These may not give the bass required for accuracy on some music, and you might have to “kiss a few frogs” before you find your match, but it should offer a decent solution long term.

Thanks, I've never had much trust in room treatments, I tend to naturally assume they will make absolutely fuck all difference! I could be wrong, but I am super sceptical!! Not keen an EQ either, I got the Suggie as it had a remote, so don;t want to be changing the EQ all the time to match the music!! Perhaps another speaker choice beckons.

[struth]

you could always try and make a bass trap cheaply and try it out. it may help.. if it does then you can take that further. may save the farting about. if it doesnt then very little lost

[Scooby]

Thanks, I've never had much trust in room treatments, I tend to naturally assume they will make absolutely fuck all difference! I could be wrong, but I am super sceptical!! Not keen an EQ either, I got the Suggie as it had a remote, so don;t want to be changing the EQ all the time to match the music!! Perhaps another speaker choice beckons.

The most important thing here is that you do what feels right for you, not what I or others would do, so good on ya :cool:

Your chosen route of finding less problematic speakers will definitely work, although it may take a few goes to find something that you love.

If you can blag or borrow speakers from anywhere rather than fork out and have to sell on, it will be quicker and cheaper to get there. It’s all good experience though. Everyone seems to find out what they don’t like before they hone in on what they do.

I’ve really enjoyed reading your exploits and I look forward to seeing you find your ideal. FWIW I love that Snuggie you have. Unless you end up falling for “difficult speakers, you won’t likely find something better…..just different.

[Lawrence001]

Remind me of your room dimensions and which length the speakers fire across. I wonder if side firing woofers (eg Rega) would help.

[Bourney]

You just want some new speakers Mike :D

[Mikeandvan]

The most important thing here is that you do what feels right for you, not what I or others would do, so good on ya :cool:

Your chosen route of finding less problematic speakers will definitely work, although it may take a few goes to find something that you love.

If you can blag or borrow speakers from anywhere rather than fork out and have to sell on, it will be quicker and cheaper to get there. It’s all good experience though. Everyone seems to find out what they don’t like before they hone in on what they do.

I’ve really enjoyed reading your exploits and I look forward to seeing you find your ideal. FWIW I love that Snuggie you have. Unless you end up falling for “difficult speakers, you won’t likely find something better…..just different.

Thanks Andy, I do enjoy my music, regardless of my whinging! I think my biggest gripe is not having a larger listening room, and then being able to play it louder. The Suggie goes loud very quickly in my room, can't get the dial past 9am, I would love to hear it really let loose.

[Mikeandvan]

You just want some new speakers Mike :D

I love box swapping me, especially spending 2 hours wrapping speakers for shipping!

[Mikeandvan]

Remind me of your room dimensions and which length the speakers fire across. I wonder if side firing woofers (eg Rega) would help.

It's about 14 x 12ft, sofa is about 6/7 ft from front of speakers, as speakers need to be 3ft out from the wall, which are about the same length apart, far from ideal!

[Lawrence001]

How loud do you listen when you sit down?

[Mikeandvan]

How loud do you listen when you sit down?

About past 9 o clock.

[Bourney]

I love box swapping me, especially spending 2 hours wrapping speakers for shipping!

Haha

[Pigmy Pony]

I love box swapping me, especially spending 2 hours wrapping speakers for shipping!

I'm wondering if maybe the ports on your Lintons are tuned to a frequency your room doesn't like, and that maybe a quality sealed box design might be better (apologies if someone already suggested this).

But ideally you need to be able to borrow, or "try before you buy", because all this box swapping must be costing you fortunes if you are buying new.

[Lawrence001]

About past 9 o clock.I give up!

[Mikeandvan]

I give up!

Well quite hard to quantify! I have the volume just loud enough to get a proper feeling for the music, but not so loud that I can't hear myself think, or piss off the neighbours.

[struth]

always difficult to express this. one person's loud is anothers' medium etc. you can use a db meter or ap but again they are not always easily used or appreciated(or accurate at times)

[Lawrence001]

Well quite hard to quantify! I have the volume just loud enough to get a proper feeling for the music, but not so loud that I can't hear myself think, or piss off the neighbours.Ok so not excessive I advise trying sealed box first and then small speakers if you still have the problem. Getting a powerful amp with high current delivery at low impedance could help if you want to try that first. I have found it can help the drivers control the standing waves better rather than move with them.

[Pigmy Pony]

Ok so not excessive I advise trying sealed box first and then small speakers if you still have the problem. Getting a powerful amp with high current delivery at low impedance could help if you want to try that first. I have found it can help the drivers control the standing waves better rather than move with them.

In the same way that a good strong lead will control a wayward dog better than a bungee cord :) I think that's a good analogy, I'm quite pleased with myself :D

[Macca]

Ok so not excessive I advise trying sealed box first and then small speakers if you still have the problem. Getting a powerful amp with high current delivery at low impedance could help if you want to try that first. I have found it can help the drivers control the standing waves better rather than move with them.

This is what I was suggesting, thought the Sugden would be decent in that respect but possibly not.
The Audio Innovations I'd expect to be worse, another transistor amp would be needed to see if it is an amp issue.

The Lintons don't go low but the room is quite small and square so not impossible they are exciting a room node if volume level is sufficient.

If it doesn't boom at low volume might be the room. If it doesn't boom with digital it's a turntable feedback issue.

[Mikeandvan]

Booms with cd as well. New speakers loom, what sealed boxes to hunt for then? I reckon something mid size, floor stander or standmount. Preferably used.

[AJSki2fly]

Booms with cd as well. New speakers loom, what sealed boxes to hunt for then? I reckon something mid size, floor stander or standmount. Preferably used.

These would sort you out https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275784413128?hash=item4036082fc8:g:0YQAAOSwqeVjwpQ Y&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwFalHQ1ZJO03lA2hWZO3hVOeP6p1v rvCH%2FvTXfaWFNeYGEiK9BA9F1pMJp55jrzOmQISyjaT2rGcH 010GFmgFa9NKqhQ90dvApmfQd6xdD%2FWoLq9DysJ7RSE%2B5s W5VR1qNp5Hg6wUCXzxSMyVoQ7vkhTKJmjdnggRbIp6AjpdYn%2 BrwBJoJI3jNMYTLaXzOHFY5mZ4YksQ54KMX8T7KrTamBSVhBcx efCF%2Bwy29iQI9piXWhRYC%2ByOKmcsZOwYJ3lHA%3D%3D%7C tkp%3ABk9SR9LC1of0YQ

They are downward firing, no boom, no screech, very accurate, I know I have had a pair, should work well in your Roon size.sound lovely by the way.

[Mikeandvan]

These would sort you out https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275784413128?hash=item4036082fc8:g:0YQAAOSwqeVjwpQ Y&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwFalHQ1ZJO03lA2hWZO3hVOeP6p1v rvCH%2FvTXfaWFNeYGEiK9BA9F1pMJp55jrzOmQISyjaT2rGcH 010GFmgFa9NKqhQ90dvApmfQd6xdD%2FWoLq9DysJ7RSE%2B5s W5VR1qNp5Hg6wUCXzxSMyVoQ7vkhTKJmjdnggRbIp6AjpdYn%2 BrwBJoJI3jNMYTLaXzOHFY5mZ4YksQ54KMX8T7KrTamBSVhBcx efCF%2Bwy29iQI9piXWhRYC%2ByOKmcsZOwYJ3lHA%3D%3D%7C tkp%3ABk9SR9LC1of0YQ

They are downward firing, no boom, no screech, very accurate, I know I have had a pair, should work well in your Roon size.sound lovely by the way.

My current Proac floorstanders are downward firing and they boom as much as the Lintons.

[Macca]

in a room your dimensions modes will be 47hz to 138Hz - if you want to solve the problem au natural you need a bass-light speaker.

A friend uses Ruark Templar in a room that size, no boom, bass is adequate unless you're into dance music, hip-hop and so on.

Still think EQ is the better option, dial out the bass problem and just leave it - you won't need to tinker with every new thing you play.

[AJSki2fly]

My current Proac floorstanders are downward firing and they boom as much as the Lintons.

If the floor is suspended wood, and your floor standers firing down onto it then they are likely to boom at certain frequencies, they may be causing the floor to vibrate. Also spikes into a wood floor will couple them to it and make it worse. Try placing the Proac’s on a concrete patio slab and listen to the difference. You could take the spikes out and place them on suitable sorbothane semi-spheres for their weight(look on eBay), this will isolate them from the floor. All I suggest I have done and it can make big improvements.

The WB Arc’s are not likely to boom, they are effectively an excellent monitors which have been carefully designed to get bass down to 35-40hz, but not excessively. The construction is also very, very rigid, made from alloy and carbon fibre, so hardly any box resonance to cloud the sound from the drivers, or generated low end resonance.

I think you would be quite surprised by their clarity and control.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

It doesn't matter where the port is, the output from it will be virtually omnidirectional.

[AJSki2fly]

It doesn't matter where the port is, the output from it will be virtually omnidirectional.

Very true ����

[Macca]

It doesn't matter where the port is, the output from it will be virtually omnidirectional.

Yes - likewise a sealed box will still excite room modes if it goes low enough with sufficient amplitude.

For a small square room you need speakers with no real bass - or some form of EQ - or massive bass traps that will take up a big chunk of space.

There was a set-up at last Wigwam show - tiny Q Acoustic speakers with a subwoofer. That was in a small room and did not boom. But he was using EQ. Good sound actually, the tweeters were a bit wayward but not enough to ruin it.

[struth]

had a couple of sets of Q's.. very good for money. i think making some big cheap and ugly base traps will be of befefit. it they work or even if they dont, then you kinda know where you are,

[Mikeandvan]

I'll get a pair of med stand mounts and they'll probably end up back to square one to with the hard treble issue. I reckon solve bass boom first, then I may have to dump this new suggie and go back to the old suggie! Fuck knows.

[fatmarley]

Limp mass bass absorbers don't take up much room.

https://gearspace.com/board/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/743040-tims-limp-mass-bass-absorbers.html

[AJSki2fly]

Limp mass bass absorbers don't take up much room.

https://gearspace.com/board/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/743040-tims-limp-mass-bass-absorbers.html

Whilst these will work, they are not easy to build and get right, and it is important to calculate the low frequency nodes and build then as required, and as the designers says, experimentation is needed with placement as well, although he does give some guidance for a couple of rooms.

It would best in the first instance if Mike addressed the floor, if it is a suspended wooden floor, then decoupling the speakers as already suggest will help.

I cannot remember the room sizes, but it may simply be a case of using a too big speaker in too small a room, which is part of the problem. Although if the room has inherent low frequency enhancement issues then bass enhancement may well be difficult to get rid of. Also the listening position in relation to the speaker is critical if you sit too near the wall behind and bass re-enforcement will be felt/heard even more.

[Macca]

I think Mike says his room is 12x13

The Wharfedales are not bass monsters, LF starts rolling off at 50Hz. But there's boundary reinforcement and small square room doesn't help.

They are not the easiest load so I do wonder if the Sugden is enough and maybe part if the problem if not all of it.

[Mikeandvan]

Whilst these will work, they are not easy to build and get right, and it is important to calculate the low frequency nodes and build then as required, and as the designers says, experimentation is needed with placement as well, although he does give some guidance for a couple of rooms.

It would best in the first instance if Mike addressed the floor, if it is a suspended wooden floor, then decoupling the speakers as already suggest will help.

I cannot remember the room sizes, but it may simply be a case of using a too big speaker in too small a room, which is part of the problem. Although if the room has inherent low frequency enhancement issues then bass enhancement may well be difficult to get rid of. Also the listening position in relation to the speaker is critical if you sit too near the wall behind and bass re-enforcement will be felt/heard even more.

All the negs, I got 'em, these £1000 a month rented flats are just too damn small! My room 12 x 13, bu with highish ceilings, my sofa - right against the back wall, no where else for it. I live on ground floor, so concrete I think, actually no sounds like floorboards!! Still speakers are on spikes, but spikes sit on faux marble slabs, speakers at the moment are the Proac floor standers, but the Wharfedale lintons give the same effect (stand mounted).

[Mikeandvan]

Limp mass bass absorbers don't take up much room.

https://gearspace.com/board/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/743040-tims-limp-mass-bass-absorbers.html

Thanks, those look a but faffy to me though, not sure I can be bothered.

[Mikeandvan]

I think Mike says his room is 12x13

The Wharfedales are not bass monsters, LF starts rolling off at 50Hz. But there's boundary reinforcement and small square room doesn't help.

They are not the easiest load so I do wonder if the Sugden is enough and maybe part if the problem if not all of it.

The Suggie is low rated, but goes load quick, but I guess that's not relevant? Also the issue remains with the Proacs and they an easy load.

[Macca]

The Suggie is low rated, but goes load quick, but I guess that's not relevant? Also the issue remains with the Proacs and they an easy load.

Get a graphic equaliser. Cheap and easy solution (if it is indeed the room causing the problem).

[AJSki2fly]

All the negs, I got 'em, these £1000 a month rented flats are just too damn small! My room 12 x 13, bu with highish ceilings, my sofa - right against the back wall, no where else for it. I live on ground floor, so concrete I think, actually no sounds like floorboards!! Still speakers are on spikes, but spikes sit on faux marble slabs, speakers at the moment are the Proac floor standers, but the Wharfedale lintons give the same effect (stand mounted).

Hi Mike

I am going to be pedantic, small room needs smaller speakers, and you need to do do close listening, so a pair of monitor is best, I revcomended the WB ARCs for that very reason. but you could go smaller. Any speaker that can shift a large volume of air in a small room wil have a tendency to invoke the boom syndrome.

A graphic equaliser may work but IMHO opinion wil affect the musical edition and cause a mask.

Cheers

[Bourney]

Take your spikes out of your stands, see what happens. Seriously.

[Mikeandvan]

Take your spikes out of your stands, see what happens. Seriously.

Speakers are bottom ported, so they'd likely melt or something.

[Mikeandvan]

Hi Mike

I am going to be pedantic, small room needs smaller speakers, and you need to do do close listening, so a pair of monitor is best, I revcomended the WB ARCs for that very reason. but you could go smaller. Any speaker that can shift a large volume of air in a small room wil have a tendency to invoke the boom syndrome.

A graphic equaliser may work but IMHO opinion wil affect the musical edition and cause a mask.

Cheers

I've a feeling the Arcs might be too bright. Experience has taught me not to go too 'hifi' when buying, the results are often lofi.

[AJSki2fly]

Accurate might be a better description of the WB ARCs.

A suggestion for you. Before you go of buying other speakers or Frequency Equalisers why not try this. If you can stream music to your hifi from a laptop or another device, why not get ROON or Audirvana on a free trial. Both have built on graphic equalisation so you could play your favourite music and see if attenuating or enhancing specific frequencies with your speakers is an improvement. If it works then maybe you should consider a physical frequency equaliser such as Martin suggested.

It might also highlight the problem frequencies, whether speakers or room.

It could save a lot of cost and angst, just a thought.[emoji846]

[Bourney]

Speakers are bottom ported, so they'd likely melt or something.
Not the proacs, the Wharfedales.

[Mikeandvan]

Not the proacs, the Wharfedales.

What, take the spikes out of the stands, and then put the stands on rubber supports or something?

[Bourney]

Just take the spikes out and sit the stands on the floor, nothing in between. It's a 5 minute experiment.

[Mikeandvan]

Just take the spikes out and sit the stands on the floor, nothing in between. It's a 5 minute experiment.

Oh ok, will try it when I put the Lintons back in.

[Mikeandvan]

What about electro static speakers? Those QUad or Magneplaner ones?

[Barry]

What about electro static speakers? Those QUad or Magneplaner ones?

I use Quad 57s which have three short legs. They stand on (or push into) a deep-pile carpet on a suspended wood floor. I don't think using spikes would help, even if they could be fitted. I have tried putting the speakers on custom-made stands which raises them by about 8"; again the sheer weight of the combination (~ 20kg) permits a secure and wobble-free installation.

[Macca]

What about electro static speakers? Those QUad or Magneplaner ones?

ideally they need a lot of space behind them, which you don't have.

[AJSki2fly]

These 2’ out from the wall behind them and stood on solid heavy stands could be well worth considering.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295647048877?hash=item44d5eff4ad:g:6fkAAOSwSd1kLAG d&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwHTsYV5SdzAL7YWEVyJexn3LhiYEF CLIyY6%2FXPVEOYwTAY8DEZ1yC0NVNfmrJCdDLMwpWMR61RADO hIoqdCTxDvP0NXlJWH4DyojlWYWT0yRJlMrl1NuYRO3riQSx8n jdoL2YBqbk4QsLm7Im3xIJ1O9t3g9OtUBLUfhpV9hpqbvwZmHu etbdHtmAH%2FTK54YUL4xXiQeTxJdeLm%2Fnt0yVChckqmkoCn julcnEOH4iJBXQWwNvYf1YR9p2tIPHzu%2BTQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp% 3ABk9SR6qjsPP2YQ

[walpurgis]

What about electro static speakers? Those QUad or Magneplaner ones?

Magneplanars are not electrostatic speakers. They are planar 'isodynamics'.

[Mikeandvan]

These 2’ out from the wall behind them and stood on solid heavy stands could be well worth considering.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295647048877?hash=item44d5eff4ad:g:6fkAAOSwSd1kLAG d&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwHTsYV5SdzAL7YWEVyJexn3LhiYEF CLIyY6%2FXPVEOYwTAY8DEZ1yC0NVNfmrJCdDLMwpWMR61RADO hIoqdCTxDvP0NXlJWH4DyojlWYWT0yRJlMrl1NuYRO3riQSx8n jdoL2YBqbk4QsLm7Im3xIJ1O9t3g9OtUBLUfhpV9hpqbvwZmHu etbdHtmAH%2FTK54YUL4xXiQeTxJdeLm%2Fnt0yVChckqmkoCn julcnEOH4iJBXQWwNvYf1YR9p2tIPHzu%2BTQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp% 3ABk9SR6qjsPP2YQ

I fancied trying these, but wonder what their sonic signature is? EDIT, just read a review of them, 'treble can be spikey', avoid!

[Pigmy Pony]

Mike, I do think finding a speaker that does everything you want is going to be a long and expensive process. I agree with Macca that getting an equaliser could be the easiest and most cost effective solution.

[fatmarley]

Hi Mike

I am going to be pedantic, small room needs smaller speakers, and you need to do do close listening, so a pair of monitor is best, I revcomended the WB ARCs for that very reason. but you could go smaller. Any speaker that can shift a large volume of air in a small room wil have a tendency to invoke the boom syndrome.

A graphic equaliser may work but IMHO opinion wil affect the musical edition and cause a mask.

Cheers

Also, being pedantic. Although smaller speakers do usually have less low frequency extension than larger speakers, that's not always the case, so the physical size of a speaker isn't the best indicator of how low frequencies are going to sound in a room.

[Lawrence001]

I think some small PMC floorstanders could do the job. They sounded excellent in a small room at the Wam show.

[Lawrence001]

Have a read of this

https://www.hifichoice.com/content/pmc-gb1i-%C2%A31525

[AJSki2fly]

Also, being pedantic. Although smaller speakers do usually have less low frequency extension than larger speakers, that's not always the case, so the physical size of a speaker isn't the best indicator of how low frequencies are going to sound in a room.

Yes that is true, in my experience this could be the case with older small box designs, especially those with for box rigidity which causes box vibration, I think it is not such and issue with better speakers built in the last 25 years, but I could be wrong. :)

[struth]

Mike, I do think finding a speaker that does everything you want is going to be a long and expensive process. I agree with Macca that getting an equaliser could be the easiest and most cost effective solution.

mabe need a few guys round too to see if they hear what you hear, otherwise you may be chasing shadows

[Lawrence001]

Yes that is true, in my experience this could be the case with older small box designs, especially those with for box rigidity which causes box vibration, I think it is not such and issue with better speakers built in the last 25 years, but I could be wrong. :)Bass extension is a function of many variables but there's the age old trade off between sensitivity and extension that all designers need to consider. Port tuning, T/S parameters etc all play a part.

[AJSki2fly]

Bass extension is a function of many variables but there's the age old trade off between sensitivity and extension that all designers need to consider. Port tuning, T/S parameters etc all play a part.

and then there is the room to consider, its size, whether it is tending towards a square(not good), the wall, floor and ceiling construction (can be great resonators and reflectors), and of course there is the listening position and the correct position for the speakers, and finally the furnishings in the room will all impact the end audible result. So lots to consider really.

[Macca]

Also, being pedantic. Although smaller speakers do usually have less low frequency extension than larger speakers, that's not always the case, so the physical size of a speaker isn't the best indicator of how low frequencies are going to sound in a room.

True also Hoffman's Iron Law applies - you can only have two of the three:

Small size
Deep bass
High efficiency

Using some thin 'bell wire' as speaker cable should reduce bass - at least in theory - cheap and easy to try.

[Lawrence001]

and then there is the room to consider, its size, whether it is tending towards a square(not good), the wall, floor and ceiling construction (can be great resonators and reflectors), and of course there is the listening position and the correct position for the speakers, and finally the furnishings in the room will all impact the end audible result. So lots to consider really.Absolutely I was just talking about speaker design but the designers may tailor then towards a particular size of room.

[Macca]

Absolutely I was just talking about speaker design but the designers may tailor then towards a particular size of room.

In the good old days every range had a small two way, a larger three way (or two and a half way) and a big three or four way floorstander so all the bases were covered, in terms of room size.

Seems like not many do that now. Focal and B&W do, can't think of anyone else off the top of my head.

[Pigmy Pony]

KEF. They probably have something for every room and every budget.

[Macca]

KEF. They probably have something for every room and every budget.

Forgot about them.

But do they still have ranges like in the old days? You used to have three ranges per manufacturer - budget, mid range and high end - with three speakers in each range. (The Yanks would have five or even seven speakers per range of course).

So you might have the 'Top of the range' but really there was two ranges above that.

Seemed a lot simpler than it is now. Bit like the old Ford cars really - Fiesta, Escort, Granada / L, GL, Ghia. You knew were you stood.

[Lawrence001]

Absolutelyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230425/1a1d1404586fbf8aa1449c327ad1980d.jpg

[Pigmy Pony]

Absolutelyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230425/1a1d1404586fbf8aa1449c327ad1980d.jpg

:D That would be me on the right.

Oh yeah, KEF have allsorts, going from Q series 2-way standmounts for about £400, R series 3-way standmounts about £1800, and all the way to the Muon and back. Mike should go for the Muons and be done with it.

[Macca]

wants to move out of Brighton and up north. You could rent a new-ish 4 bed detached house here for what a one bed flat in Brighton costs.

25 foot living room. solid floor, have any type of speaker you want.

[Bourney]

3 bed detached in half decent area in Stoke - £175k

[Barry]

3 bed detached in half decent area in Stoke - £175k

I could have two of them in exchange for my house here in Essex. One for me and one for "her inside the doors". ;)

[Mikeandvan]

Thinking of moving down the road to Hastings. Can rent a house there for about the same price, tired of Brighton, the characters gone, it's all business types down here now, plus my work has completely died.

[Lawrence001]

That will sort the room problems out then!

[Scooby]

It’s probably worth holding off on any more speakers until after you move, as the room really does play a big part (IMHO). If you can get a detached or even a semi with the living room on the outside wall, you may be listening at entirely different levels too. That also moves the goalposts in terms of what sound you can achieve.

In all honesty I’ve fond moving to a better sounding room to be the most important factor in terms of enjoying my listening, but that’s just me. I’m sure you’ll have fun experimenting anyway :)

[Mikeandvan]

It’s probably worth holding off on any more speakers until after you move, as the room really does play a big part (IMHO). If you can get a detached or even a semi with the living room on the outside wall, you may be listening at entirely different levels too. That also moves the goalposts in terms of what sound you can achieve.

In all honesty I’ve fond moving to a better sounding room to be the most important factor in terms of enjoying my listening, but that’s just me. I’m sure you’ll have fun experimenting anyway :)

Yeh, I'm not about moving yet, but have started looking, and trying to figure out whether the lounge adjoins to the next door or is separated by a hallway! End of terrace are good of course, if the lounge is on the outside wall. Might try to find a cheapish pair of small floorstanders or standmounts for now.

[Mikeandvan]

Looking at some b&w CDM1s, smallish speakers with front ports, does that mean these could be sited close to the wall?

[Macca]

Looking at some b&w CDM1s, smallish speakers with front ports, does that mean these could be sited close to the wall?

it doesn't automatically mean that, no.

CDM 1 are good speakers but I wouldn't say they were ideal for going close to the wall.

[Lawrence001]

Any reason for looking at them or is it just they're local and cheap?

[Pigmy Pony]

They may be fine, or they may not. Can you return them if they're not?

[Mikeandvan]

Just bought them off ebay for 300 notes, hehe, you've got to try these things, now need some stands.

[Macca]

Just bought them off ebay for 300 notes, hehe, you've got to try these things, now need some stands.

bargain that is but I think they will have too much bass. Hope I'm wrong.

Serious speakers them are if you can get them to work right in your room.

[Bourney]

Interested to hear how you find the tweeter if you thought ANs were a touch strident! Had a pair years ago when they were a current model. Beautiful build.

[AJSki2fly]

Just bought them off ebay for 300 notes, hehe, you've got to try these things, now need some stands.

They should be good, fingers crossed, in case you haven’t read it a good review https://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-compact-domestic-monitor-1-loudspeaker-page-2

[Pigmy Pony]

bargain that is but I think they will have too much bass. Hope I'm wrong.

Serious speakers them are if you can get them to work right in your room.

Sounds like Yoda has got into hifi reviewing...

Hope these speakers are the ones for you, but if not just remember "The greatest teacher, failure is" :)

[AJSki2fly]

Sounds like Yoda has got into hifi reviewing...

Hope these speakers are the ones for you, but if not just remember "The greatest teacher, failure is" :)

I believe there are resemblances [emoji6]

[Pigmy Pony]

I believe there are resemblances [emoji6]

Resemblances indeed there are, Padawan :)

[Bourney]

Box swapping is frowned upon for some reason, however if you don't take it too seriously, it's great fun and you learn such a lot. I've had so much kit over the last 30 years, it's funny! But I know what I like and I sorta know what can be paired up and work well. Enjoy your new speakers Mike ��

[Lawrence001]

Who frowns on box swapping on here? The forum would be dead if we did! The h hi fi bits anyway.

[Bourney]

Not so much on here to be fair

[Bourney]

Not so much on here to be fair

[Mikeandvan]

I thought the Cdms would be a good choice ad they're quite small and are front ported, not arrived yet anyway. The lintons are back in now, they're sounding OK, just need a slightly bigger room I think, I'll hold onto them as the presentation is easier going than the proacs. I need some stands now for the cdms.

[Bourney]

Did you take the spikes out Mike?

[Mikeandvan]

Did you take the spikes out Mike?

No, didn't get around to that.