View Full Version : Caiman passive output mod revealed
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 06:03
Stan,I may get a chance to do the mod today,so can compare to my Audio Note Dac Zero,once the caps have settled.
Leo, how does it compare to the AYA and Buffalo DAC's?
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 11:34
Just done my 7510 with some Mundorfs.They were quite large so had to move them to one side in order to fit them in.First impressions are very favourable.Sorry about the crap picture.
Just done my 7510 with some Mundorfs.They were quite large so had to move them to one side in order to fit them in.First impressions are very favourable.Sorry about the crap picture.
Hey that's pretty work!
I have some of those in my speaker network. They are not too expensive either. Kinda wet in Dunfermline today, eh? :)
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 12:06
Thanks.Yes,it's been peeing it down here.It had stopped momentarily so I nipped outside for the photo cos of the crap camera on my phone.The great Scottish summer!
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 12:07
Just been watching some telly through this.You were not kidding about the bass Stan!
Leo, how does it compare to the AYA and Buffalo DAC's?
Not quite up to the modded Buffalo32 yet although its not really fair to compare it to that . I'll compare it against the stock BuffaloII when it finally arrives.
The Caiman has more detail in the high's than the AYAII but the AYA has a bit more focus and a bit more solid with vocals. The gap is certainly much shorter now though :)
This is by far the best I've heard the Caiman , in all honesty the commercial competition should be quite worried imo . I certainly don't know of anything in this price range or quite a bit higher to touch it
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 15:24
Sounds like Stan should do a commercial version of this.
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 15:29
i was just thinking that!
StanleyB
14-07-2010, 15:45
The Caiman has more detail in the high's than the AYAII but the AYA has a bit more focus and a bit more solid with vocals.
You can adjust that by trying 10, 22, or 33uF.
As in dac with passive output? The only problem is it might not suit all set ups , it sounds great if your gear is suited though .
This mod is so easy to try , the beauty is if it doesn't suit its no problem to stick the active audioboard back in:)
Indeed, Stan was asking over on the linear thread (hope you don't mind me posting this Stan):
"Actually, on reflection, you make a very valid point. Here I am dreaming up all sorts of mods etc. for people to try on my DACs. But that might give the impression about the product. One only has to look at my competitors who do not have a long list of mods to recommend. So maybe I should halt thinking up any more mods for the rest of the year or even longer. I can ask a small company to advertise mods etc. instead. Worth me thinking about, since business is slow right now and other means of income need to be looked at."
Firstly please keep the mods and ideas coming and how about you commercialise these mods and role them into a new high end DAC with suitable case to go with it?
I know this probably goes against your 'ethos' so to speak but this is what SlimDevices did with the transporter, took a bunch of well understood mods and tweaks and rolled them into a high end product and added a few other touches. I'm sure people would buy it as the sound quality as far as I can tell is right up there, its just the packaging that IMHO puts people off and also why some quarters dismiss it off hand without even hearing it....just my 2p worth....
You can adjust that by trying 10, 22, or 33uF.
Thanks Stan!
Do you still have the Benchmark dac? Hows the Caiman compare now ? I bet its quite a bit infront now isn't it ? :eyebrows:
At least Stan gets the feedback from current owners who are willing to try some of his mods and little tweaks , it gives him an idea what people like, don't like etc .
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 16:09
As in dac with passive output? The only problem is it might not suit all set ups , it sounds great if your gear is suited though .
This mod is so easy to try , the beauty is if it doesn't suit its no problem to stick the active audioboard back in:)
Yes indeed,as Neal said,perhaps a higher-end dac in a nice case would sell well.
StanleyB
14-07-2010, 16:46
I'll have to borrow a few DACs again to compare :).
A higher end DAC? I call that a midrange DAC :lol:. I am still working on such a beast, but progress is dead slow with many technical hurdles still to be overcome even after two years. The modest Caiman is turning out hard to surpass by even me:scratch:.
I'll have to borrow a few DACs again to compare :).
A higher end DAC? I call that a midrange DAC :lol:. I am still working on such a beast, but progress is dead slow with many technical hurdles still to be overcome even after two years. The modest Caiman is turning out hard to surpass by even me:scratch:.
If you build it, they will come. ;)
StanleyB
14-07-2010, 16:56
Maybe in the next 12 to 18 months if the economy does not collapse again.
The modest Caiman is turning out hard to surpass by even me:scratch:.
A lot of that has got to be down to the brilliant Wolfson DAC, placed in a nice environment (Caiman) and fed a diet of lovely clean DC (mods). I can imagine that it's going to be difficult to beat. As it stands, it's only a smidge behind my Ayre player's sound and that is a £6k beast with Minimum Phase filters!
Tripmaster
14-07-2010, 17:02
Can you not just add a switch to enable the user to toggle between the passive mod and the standard Dac? Then it could suit all tastes
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 17:40
Yes,switchable filters could be a good selling point.
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 19:50
let me get this straight... if i bought a couple of the apropriate caps from jimmy at tirna... if i got a mate of mine (who is a bit less fat handed than me) to take out that active board thing, i could litterally slot the cap into the right socket the right way round and there is a good chance i would have a better dac ... for £2...?
Tripmaster
14-07-2010, 19:59
let me get this straight... if i bought a couple of the apropriate caps from jimmy at tirna... if i got a mate of mine (who is a bit less fat handed than me) to take out that active board thing, i could litterally slot the cap into the right socket the right way round and there is a good chance i would have a better dac ... for £2...?
Thereabouts
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 20:07
do the ones from tirna have to go in a particular way round?
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 20:09
as a side not Stan if it is as good as the akurate ... you are on to a fucking winner!!
if i do this, i will happily tell you how well it stands up against the majik ds-i
drumlins4ever
14-07-2010, 20:11
do the ones from tirna have to go in a particular way round?
Have a look here ,
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6910&page=17
post number 164
StanleyB
14-07-2010, 20:15
let me get this straight... if i bought a couple of the apropriate caps from jimmy at tirna... if i got a mate of mine (who is a bit less fat handed than me) to take out that active board thing, i could litterally slot the cap into the right socket the right way round and there is a good chance i would have a better dac ... for £2...?
It's like stripping down the interior of your car, removing the catalytic converter, and putting on some wider tyres:eyebrows:.
The disadvantage is that the headphone output is then dead. If you need the headphone output then there is an alternative mod shown somewhere.
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 20:22
i have no interest in headphones they all sound shit to me anyway :)... alternatively to give me the benefit of having a headphone out should i need one for making my ears bleed or something... how about...
taking 2 wires from the active board (where the ones jimmy atached go to) to the 2 caps then to a pair of extra outputs on the side or the back... it would mean drilling a pair of holes.... but how hard can that be.... does that make sence? would it work? and would i have complete function as well as an extra pair of passive outs?
StanleyB
14-07-2010, 20:25
how about...
taking 2 wires from the active board (where the ones jimmy atached go to) to the 2 caps then to a pair of extra outputs on the side or the back... it would mean drilling a pair of holes.... but how hard can that be.... does that make sence? would it work? and would i have complete function as well as an extra pair of passive outs?
If you don't use the variable output, you can convert that to a fixed passive out, and leave the other fixed output active. I can do it for you for a small fee plus return postage if you get stuck.
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 20:36
My caiman is fairly mobile within the house... It's living upstairs at the mo as a pre, but downstairs it would just be a dac... So I'd like to keep as much function as possible really...
Its worth trying Hamish, its possible it may not suit your set up but if it does you may be surprised . Its really something you have to try in your own system to know if it works well for you or not
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 20:42
Which caps do I ask jimmy for, and could I get a clearer photo of exactly how to slot them into these holes... Which holes and which way... That will give me a clue if it works for me eh
Hamish - if you use bipolars then you don't have to worry about direction. You could do a lot worse than a pair of Rubycon CE or Nichicon Muse bipolars.
Remove the op-amp board, taking care to cut the gunk holding it down to the main board. Then fit a cap to the top two holes and another to the bottom two holes of the left socket, leaving the centre hole empty.
Take care to mute or set the volume to minimum when you start running music, then you'll be ok once the charge on the caps is constant. Leave at least 48 hours before starting to listen seriously. That's 48 hours of music, not standing idle. You can leave the amp turned off.
This way, you've done no damage to the Caiman and can put it back the way it was at any time.
do the ones from tirna have to go in a particular way round?
I would suggest you "turn them mostly clockwise".
drumlins4ever
14-07-2010, 21:14
Hamish - if you use bipolars then you don't have to worry about direction. You could do a lot worse than a pair of Rubycon CE or Nichicon Muse bipolars.
Remove the op-amp board, taking care to cut the gunk holding it down to the main board. Then fit a cap to the top two holes and another to the bottom two holes of the left socket, leaving the centre hole empty.
Take care to mute or set the volume to minimum when you start running music, then you'll be ok once the charge on the caps is constant. Leave at least 48 hours before starting to listen seriously. That's 48 hours of music, not standing idle. You can leave the amp turned off.
This way, you've done no damage to the Caiman and can put it back the way it was at any time.
Aren't these instructions also applicable to the 7520 ?
And to verify the cap values are Rubycon 47uf 16V ?
HighFidelityGuy
14-07-2010, 21:19
Aren't these instructions also applicable to the 7520 ?
And to verify the cap values are Rubycon 47uf 16V ?
Yes and yes. Although 6.3V caps will also be fine as no more than 2.5V will ever go through them. :)
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 21:28
Any cap of at least 6.3v rating and up to 47uF is fine.You could try 10 and 33ufor so too to tune to taste/system.Changing the value will alter the bass response.
HighFidelityGuy
14-07-2010, 21:37
I've got the following caps on order:
Mungdorf 47uf 35VAC-100VDC MLytic Bi-Polar AL (BR100-Raw)
Mundorf M-CAP RXF 22uf 350V
Mungdorf M-CAP MKP 15uF 250V
AXON 47uF 250VDC True Cap
Nichicon ES 47uf / 6.3v
Blackgate FK 47uf 16v
Panasonic FC 47uF 10V
ARD(ROD) 47uF 35V bipolar (from RS)
I'll also try and get some of the Rubycon bipolar caps from Tirna.
Its going to take me ages to run all these in and compare them but I'll try to post a little review asap. :)
StanleyB
14-07-2010, 21:46
Anything between 10uF and 47uF will do, but 10uF will be more suited for rooms that suffer from too much vibrations with your current speakers. 47uF would suit subwoofer owners. I am quite happy with 33uF, but they are not as common as the 47uF. So some people sell them for more than the 47uF.
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 21:52
Not sure if the high voltage caps will suit.They don't seem to work well at low voltages.
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 21:53
Where did you get the FK's from?
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 21:55
So I need to ask for 47uF bipolar caps from jimmy and they will go in either way round in the top an bottom 2 of the 5 hole slot on the left looking at it from the button side... Right?
StanleyB
14-07-2010, 22:08
So I need to ask for 47uF bipolar caps from jimmy and they will go in either way round in the top an bottom 2 of the 5 hole slot on the left looking at it from the button side... Right?
Start reading from page 1 ;).
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 22:09
Yeah, I have done that.. I'm trying to get an accurate summary for my non techy mind :)
HighFidelityGuy
14-07-2010, 22:09
Not sure if the high voltage caps will suit.They don't seem to work well at low voltages.
Yeah, I heard about that. I've tried to go for the lowest voltage ratings I could find but a few are fairly high. I didn't go for any stupidly expensive ones though so I've not lost too much if they don't work out. I couldn't resist a couple of them though as they looked really good on paper. :)
Where did you get the FK's from?
PartsConnexion (http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_ele_blackgate_f.html) :)
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 22:10
If I get it wrong I'm gonna have o get you to fix it... We can avoid that if I get it right
So I need to ask for 47uF bipolar caps from jimmy and they will go in either way round in the top an bottom 2 of the 5 hole slot on the left looking at it from the button side... Right?
See my post here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=135736&postcount=117
BTW, I'm still getting great timing, detail, spaciousness and texture from the Black Gate FKs - but not really getting the bass power I am after (my Linn Genki still betters it in that respect) - this is likely a factor of the Black Gates and probably needs about six more weeks to overcome that deficit :( Also extreme left and right of the stage sound very convincing - it's just the centre image that the BGs portray as a bit flat.
Andrew
Ali Tait
14-07-2010, 22:11
Ok ta.
The Vinyl Adventure
14-07-2010, 22:23
Ah, sweet... Sorry that's the second time I have been shown that... I just missed the text below... Cheers buddy... Sorry for being a nuisance everyone else :)
See my post here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=135736&postcount=117
it's just the centre image that the BGs portray as a bit flat.
Andrew
Thats exactly what I started hearing with the BG FK, I fitted the standards today (used ones) , tbh these seem to be doing the same sort of thing so far although the top and bottom is more lively, I'm going to try the grey non polar Rubycons again in a few days if the standards don't improve :lol: I cannot be doing with this varied performance, its one of the reasons I never liked BG's in the past.
I'm going to try the grey non polar Rubycons again in a few days if the standards don't improve
Yes, these bipolar Rubycon CE (the grey ones) are superb at depth portrayal and you may well prefer them to the BGs.
See my post here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=135736&postcount=117
BTW, I'm still getting great timing, detail, spaciousness and texture from the Black Gate FKs - but not really getting the bass power I am after (my Linn Genki still betters it in that respect) - this is likely a factor of the Black Gates and probably needs about six more weeks to overcome that deficit :( Also extreme left and right of the stage sound very convincing - it's just the centre image that the BGs portray as a bit flat.
Andrew
Exactly, the diffuse sound I mentioned earlier, the center image is weak and with rock guitar and vocals it doesn't sound right. The bass is lighter than the standard BG's and doesn't drive rock tracks along as it should.
Seriously thinking about the grey non polar Rubicons....
So I need to ask for 47uF bipolar caps from jimmy and they will go in either way round in the top an bottom 2 of the 5 hole slot on the left looking at it from the button side... Right?
Yes, Hamish!
Please help a poor chap out, where are you guys getting the Rubicons from?
I've dug up some Elna SilmicII and Starget ROD to try (black can and red can)
Peter Galbavy
15-07-2010, 08:16
Not meaning to derail the thread, but those of us who have forgotten almost everything, can someone explain - using "springs", "hosepipes" and "counterweight" level language, what the caps in this mod do, how the value affects the output etc. ?
I am fine with resistors and volt/amps etc. in general, but capacitors - and the difference between capacitance and inductance - continues to confuse me.
The Vinyl Adventure
15-07-2010, 08:42
Yes, Hamish!
Just making sure :)
HighFidelityGuy
15-07-2010, 08:48
Please help a poor chap out, where are you guys getting the Rubicons from?
I've dug up some Elna SilmicII and Starget ROD to try (black can and red can)
I think Tirna Electronics (http://www.tirnaelectronics.co.uk/services/caiman.shtml) are the only place you're going to be able to get them in small quantities. You need to speak to Jimmy. :)
StanleyB
15-07-2010, 08:59
Please help a poor chap out, where are you guys getting the Rubicons from?
I have asked Jimmy at Tirna Electronics to supply them for the MOD21 on the TC-7510, and the passive mod on the TC-7520 and Caiman. Jimmy can be reached on:
Tel: +44 (0)1968 660605
Email: sales@tirnaelectronics.co.uk
He has agreed to ship to just anywhere on the planet :). Price is around £2 delivered to the UK. I reckon it will cost a few pence more for postage outside the UK.
Not meaning to derail the thread, but those of us who have forgotten almost everything, can someone explain - using "springs", "hosepipes" and "counterweight" level language, what the caps in this mod do, how the value affects the output etc. ?
I am fine with resistors and volt/amps etc. in general, but capacitors - and the difference between capacitance and inductance - continues to confuse me.
In simple terms:
Capacitors pass AC and block DC.
Inductors pass DC and block AC.
The amount by which they pass AC is determined by their value. There's a lot more to it than that, but it'll do for now.
The output of the Wolfson DAC in the Caiman is at about +2.5V DC with the AC signal superimposed. If you were to connect it directly to your preamp/integrated amp you would be trying to amplify DC and either your speaker cones would come at you across the room or your amp would be uncomfortable, go into protection, overheat or otherwise. Some amps have an input capacitor and they would be ok, but in principle you need to block the DC so that only the AC gets through.
So you use a capacitor to pass the AC signal through. The value, together with the input impedance of your preamp/integrated, determines the lowest frequency (bass) that can pass. Simplistically. For common values of input impedance, values of 10uF to 47uF should be fine, as Stan says. The voltage handled needs to be 6.3V or higher (to comfortably deal with the 2.5V). The difference in sound quality is more likely to come from the different construction used to make different capacitors than its exact value. And that's where the fun begins...
Does that answer your question?
The Vinyl Adventure
15-07-2010, 10:35
I have asked Jimmy at Tirna Electronics to supply them for the MOD21 on the TC-7510, and the passive mod on the TC-7520 and Caiman. Jimmy can be reached on:
Tel: +44 (0)1968 660605
Email: sales@tirnaelectronics.co.uk
He has agreed to ship to just anywhere on the planet :). Price is around £2 delivered to the UK. I reckon it will cost a few pence more for postage outside the UK.
i just spoke to him he is going to put them on his site for buying by paypal today or tomorow
Ali Tait
15-07-2010, 12:20
Cool,I'll get some to try after these Mundorfs have had a fair go.
I have asked Jimmy at Tirna Electronics to supply them for the MOD21 on the TC-7510, and the passive mod on the TC-7520 and Caiman. Jimmy can be reached on:
Tel: +44 (0)1968 660605
Email: sales@tirnaelectronics.co.uk
He has agreed to ship to just anywhere on the planet :). Price is around £2 delivered to the UK. I reckon it will cost a few pence more for postage outside the UK.
Thanks Stan (and Hamish for info re Tirna web site)
I think I've found another worthy contender the Starget ROD RS215-5708
Very solid presentation so far and seems to have not changed over the last few hours, another to add to the list :)
In simple terms:
Capacitors pass AC and block DC.
Inductors pass DC and block AC.
The amount by which they pass AC is determined by their value. There's a lot more to it than that, but it'll do for now.
The output of the Wolfson DAC in the Caiman is at about +2.5V DC with the AC signal superimposed. If you were to connect it directly to your preamp/integrated amp you would be trying to amplify DC and either your speaker cones would come at you across the room or your amp would be uncomfortable, go into protection, overheat or otherwise. Some amps have an input capacitor and they would be ok, but in principle you need to block the DC so that only the AC gets through.
So you use a capacitor to pass the AC signal through. The value, together with the input impedance of your preamp/integrated, determines the lowest frequency (bass) that can pass. Simplistically. For common values of input impedance, values of 10uF to 47uF should be fine, as Stan says. The voltage handled needs to be 6.3V or higher (to comfortably deal with the 2.5V). The difference in sound quality is more likely to come from the different construction used to make different capacitors than its exact value. And that's where the fun begins...
Does that answer your question?
Excellent explanation, Martin!
I couldn't have said it better if I had your knowledge! :)
This forum is really a wealth of information, thanks for contributing !
On order and hopefully arriving Friday:
47uF 16V Rubycon ZA
47uF 16V Rubycon ZL
47uF 16V Jamicon standard ones
47uF 16V Nichicon MUSE ES
47uF 6.3V Nichicon MUSE ES
47uF 25V Nichicon MUSE KZ
Decisions, decisions...
Andrew
Andrew, what other mods have been done to your Caiman?
Thanks Stan (and Hamish for info re Tirna web site)
I think I've found another worthy contender the Starget ROD RS215-5708
Very solid presentation so far and seems to have not changed over the last few hours, another to add to the list :)
Thanks NRG - solid presentation, sounds like my thing :) Will add to my list.
Andrew
Andrew, what other mods have been done to your Caiman?
It's actually a 7520 with Wolfson, MuRata, Silmic II and Bipolar Rubycons on the op-amp board (no longer installed).
Currently doing the passive thing with Black Gate FKs in socket PIN3B.
Also using the 7520 power supply, which I prefer to the Caiman PSU (odd I know, but it has more vitality and body) and the Maplin CB linear PSU (which I will mod with better caps and diodes).
Andrew
Also using the 7520 power supply, which I prefer to the Caiman PSU (odd I know, but it has more vitality and body) and the Maplin CB linear PSU (which I will mod with better caps and diodes).
Andrew, are you running a 12V MuRata from the 7250 supply? I've seen that you find it sounds better this way. I'd expect the reg to be dropping out due to not enough volts so I'm not sure what's happening here.
HighFidelityGuy
15-07-2010, 12:57
That's what I was thinking. The 12V Murata reg needs at least 13V input, so that means you need to use at least a 15V supply or you're not powering it properly. :scratch:
That's what I was thinking. The 12V Murata reg needs at least 13V input, so that means you need to use at least a 15V supply or you're not powering it properly. :scratch:
Hi HighFidelityGuy and Clive,
My thoughts also. However the Caiman supply I had sounded much worse (e.g. very flat) than the 7520 supply - just as it did when using the standard regulators. Also the 7520 worked well when the op-amps were installed (indicating that the 12V MuRatas were still providing a working voltage and current).
I think my experience is an anomaly - perhaps I had a duff Caiman supply and a 7520 supply passing more than 12V (yet to test that though). However, even my Maplin CB supply at 15V does not beat my 7520 supply in terms of sound - yet.
Andrew
I thought the 7520 power supply could not drive the Murata regs and Wolfson DAC?
I thought the 7520 power supply could not drive the Murata regs and Wolfson DAC?
Mine does... If I remember correctly, the Wolfson runs off the 5V rail.
Andrew
If it's the 12V power supply it will be underdriving the Murata reg and there will be no regulation, just pass-through. You will get no benefit from the regulator at all! I'm talking about the 12V reg, of course.
Peter Galbavy
15-07-2010, 19:48
In simple terms:
Capacitors pass AC and block DC.
Inductors pass DC and block AC.
The amount by which they pass AC is determined by their value. There's a lot more to it than that, but it'll do for now.
...
Does that answer your question?
Thanks, that's perfect and quite clear. Better than anyone else has managed. I suggest a library article :)
HighFidelityGuy
16-07-2010, 09:38
I've got the following caps on order:
Mungdorf 47uf 35VAC-100VDC MLytic Bi-Polar AL (BR100-Raw)
Mundorf M-CAP RXF 22uf 350V
Mungdorf M-CAP MKP 15uF 250V
AXON 47uF 250VDC True Cap
Nichicon ES 47uf / 6.3v
Blackgate FK 47uf 16v
Panasonic FC 47uF 10V
ARD(ROD) 47uF 35V bipolar (from RS)
Out of the above I've just received the following from RS:
Panasonic FC 47uF 10V
ARD(ROD) 47uF 35V bipolar
However, it turns out that the ARD(ROD) ones are Elna Starget branded (which I didn't realise) and are not bipolar. So RS are incorrectly listing them to a certain extent. They're still worth a try though. The rest of the caps I have on order are coming from the US, so they'll take a while.
I might not have time to try these two this weekend but I'll post some info asap. :)
Ali Tait
16-07-2010, 11:02
I've got some SCR Obbligatos coming from DIYHifiSupply as I want to try a film cap in this application.I'm hoping they'll squeeze under the lid!
Regarding choice of Cap to replace the Opamp board...
is there any difference between the grey Rubycon CE cap and the black Rubycon NA one quality wise?
ta.
StanleyB
19-07-2010, 12:44
Regarding choice of Cap to replace the Opamp board...
is there any difference between the grey Rubycon CE cap and the black Rubycon NA one quality wise?
Have you asked Rubycon? I reckon only they could tell us which colour is better in quality..
Have you asked Rubycon? I reckon only they could tell us which colour is better in quality..
No Stan havent done that.
Swapped out the OpAmp board for a couple of Rubycon NA's I had supplied, just curious about them as Id read Leo (I think it was) suggesting teh grey CE's were a very good choice.
Ill leave them cooking for a couple of days and report back. :)
One thing I HAVE noticed right from powering up is that the sound is quite different....more "direct" sounding, despite being slightly quieter at the same amp volume setting as before.
No problems here with the 6db reduction in output or any harsh female vocals...
48 hrs or so then ill do some proper listening.
Oh, it was a 5 minute job, no problems at all.
I'm running the Rubycon CEs and they're currently my favourites. They need more than 48 hours to settle, though. More like a week for the bass to fully bloom.
I've had a fun time with this, more caps than I can shake a stick at!
Bottom line for me: If you can get away with using a film cap do so 'cause every 'lytic is flawed in some way, they all seem to have an uneven freq response that even a humble metallised polyester cap shows up.
So I'm no longer wasting time with them and have moved on to some old Orange drop polyester caps that have a much better presentation. In the pipe will be some Multicap RTX, AudioLinks and Soniqs film caps.
Hmm, those 10uf polyesters I tried wasn't that great sounding tbh, I think they are wound types which may be a problem in this application, the 10uf Arcotronics MKP's was better but music sounded slightly strained , their also huge.
Those orange drops may be interesting Neal, I always remember when Richard was cap rolling in his WAD amp, I'm sure those orange drops proved to be pretty good for coupling, I think their low inductance too
I've got a couple of RTX's but their only 1uf, values higher than that would cost more than the Caiman:lol:
I got a pair of Siemans MKV's too, those used to get a lot of hype so will add some leads and try them for the grins
I tried a couple of Sanyo Os-Con SEPC polymers, the only value I could get are 470uF 6V, but they're tiny! They sound very good indeed with clear and dynamic midrange, no nasties and they only lose slightly to the Rubycons in the bass. I probably didn't run them for long enough and I'm reluctant to leave such high value caps in place for fear of switch-on thumps.
HighFidelityGuy
19-07-2010, 17:27
I've noticed something odd today. My left and right channels seem to be swapped around. I'm sure I didn't have this problem before I did the passive mod and I've checked that all my wiring is correct. Could somebody else that's done the passive mod as Stan first suggested (soldering to the via's between the ribbons) please check to see if your channels are the right way round? I've connected the right channel to the via on the right and vice versa as in this pic:
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/mods/caiman/cap.jpg
Cheers. :)
Ali Tait
19-07-2010, 17:30
I've had a fun time with this, more caps than I can shake a stick at!
Bottom line for me: If you can get away with using a film cap do so 'cause every 'lytic is flawed in some way, they all seem to have an uneven freq response that even a humble metallised polyester cap shows up.
So I'm no longer wasting time with them and have moved on to some old Orange drop polyester caps that have a much better presentation. In the pipe will be some Multicap RTX, AudioLinks and Soniqs film caps.
What value Sonique are you using Neal?
Ali Tait
19-07-2010, 17:32
I've noticed something odd today. My left and right channels seem to be swapped around. I'm sure I didn't have this problem before I did the passive mod and I've checked that all my wiring is correct. Could somebody else that's done the passive mod as Stan first suggested (soldering to the via's between the ribbons) please check to see if your channels are the right way round? I've connected the right channel to the via on the right and vice versa as in this pic:
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/mods/caiman/cap.jpg
Cheers. :)
Dave,have you got an actual pic of yours? I've done mine the same way (it's a 7510 though) and channels seem fine.
I think those grey caps L&R need swapping over.
Check the pcb print see if either left or right track is on the top board, follow it around and it should be marked left and right near that grey ribbon cable.
Failing that it'll need checking with a multi meter
HighFidelityGuy
19-07-2010, 18:29
Dave,have you got an actual pic of yours? I've done mine the same way (it's a 7510 though) and channels seem fine.
Afraid not, I don't have a camera good enough to do decent macro shots. They come out all fuzzy.
I think those grey caps L&R need swapping over.
Check the pcb print see if either left or right track is on the top board, follow it around and it should be marked left and right near that grey ribbon cable.
Failing that it'll need checking with a multi meter
You've cracked it Leo, the right via is for the left channel and vice versa. Balls! :doh: Oh well, when I start cap rolling I'll sort that out. Until then I'll just swap the cables round between Caiman and my preamp. Cheers. :cool:
So doing the soldering as per Stan's photos causes the channels get swapped round. Oops. Ah well, everyone makes mistakes. :)
It serves me right for not double checking though. At least it's easy to fix.
Ali Tait
19-07-2010, 18:38
I'll have to do mine too.Funny though,I hadn't noticed.Watching films,sounds panned across in the right way.Maybe the 7510 is different.I'll have to meter it and check.
I prefer the socket approach as I'd rather keep the muting relay in circuit.
Ali Tait
19-07-2010, 19:01
Don't have that luxury on the 7510.
I've noticed something odd today. My left and right channels seem to be swapped around. I'm sure I didn't have this problem before I did the passive mod and I've checked that all my wiring is correct. Could somebody else that's done the passive mod as Stan first suggested (soldering to the via's between the ribbons) please check to see if your channels are the right way round? I've connected the right channel to the via on the right and vice versa as in this pic:
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/mods/caiman/cap.jpg
Cheers. :)
Ha ha, Mine did the same thing also. :scratch:
Might sound stupid, but Stan, are you sure the photo above it correct?
It should be easy to just cross the legs of the caps over, may be worth adding a sleeve though to reduce any risk of the legs shorting.
Its an easy mistake to make guys :)
HighFidelityGuy
19-07-2010, 20:52
I prefer the socket approach as I'd rather keep the muting relay in circuit.
I've honestly not noticed any difference without the muting relay so far. Certainly no noise between tracks or anything like that. I guess some caps might give different results in that department though.
The thing I like about soldering the caps between the ribbons is that it cuts out a bunch of PCB track, wire and solder joints from the signal path. So you effectively get two mods for the price of one. :)
I'm running the Rubycon CEs and they're currently my favourites. They need more than 48 hours to settle, though. More like a week for the bass to fully bloom.
Martin, so you know of any online source for the CE's?
Ta.
Not needing the variable out or the headphones on my Bdac, removing the Opamp board and just slotting different caps in is like opamp rolling all over again - but better!
As someone else said..this mod is not to be underestimated...flippin' heck! :eek:
Martin, so you know of any online source for the CE's?
Hmm, I'm drawing a blank here. Have they gone out of production?
I've honestly not noticed any difference without the muting relay so far.
That's good to know. I may finally solder them in once I'm completely happy. Actually, I'm very happy with it now.
What value Sonique are you using Neal?
I've got 100K input impedance on my modded PreII so I can get away with 0.47uF for a 3Hz rolloff....the Orange drops and RTX are actually 1uF, the Soniqs and AudioLinks 0.47uF.
Peter Galbavy
20-07-2010, 08:55
It should be easy to just cross the legs of the caps over, may be worth adding a sleeve though to reduce any risk of the legs shorting.
Its an easy mistake to make guys :)
Or you could be even more raw and simply reverse the phono leads on the outside ... :)
Good discussion here...may be helpful?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/151392-best-electrolytic-capacitors.html
Ali Tait
20-07-2010, 11:35
I've got 100K input impedance on my modded PreII so I can get away with 0.47uF for a 3Hz rolloff....the Orange drops and RTX are actually 1uF, the Soniqs and AudioLinks 0.47uF.
How is it modded Neal? I have a pre2 also. Circuit is unmodded but I've replaced all the components.
Well it's not really a preII anymore, CD and AUX input go into a cathode follower and the phono input goes to the volume control direct IE passive.
HighFidelityGuy
20-07-2010, 13:18
That's good to know. I may finally solder them in once I'm completely happy. Actually, I'm very happy with it now.
I tried cranking the volume all the way up today and I only get a tiny bit of fizzle through my speakers. I had to put my ear right next to the tweeters to hear it. However based on the experience I've just had trying to re-solder the caps on the via's between the ribbons I personally wouldn't recommend soldering to them unless you're absolutely sure you won't be changing the caps in the future. I say this because despite being extremely careful I managed to lift the PCB track from the right hand via. :doh: They're very delicate. Personally I think soldering the caps to the holes where the right ribbon connects to the front board is better. That way you're still removing the ribbon and a fair bit of PCB track out of the signal path but you've got proper holes to solder one side of the caps to. Obviously you'd have to chop out a bit of ribbon but that's much easier to replace than a knackered via.
Seen as I no longer had a connection between the DAC chip and the ribbon due to the broken via, I've had to solder a bit of wire to the bottom of the board before the via's bring the signal to the top of the board. I've now got some little sockets that I can plug different caps into to do some cap rolling. :)
Dave, you definitely don't get any funny noises between tracks or when switching inputs? That would be the decider for me taking the muting relay out of circuit.
Ali Tait
20-07-2010, 15:24
Better to use some thin wire IMO.Solder this to the board and take to the cap,then another wire from the other side of the cap to the phono.This way,you're only soldering to the board once,and it's easy to change caps too.See the pic I posted.
Ali Tait
20-07-2010, 15:25
Well it's not really a preII anymore, CD and AUX input go into a cathode follower and the phono input goes to the volume control direct IE passive.
Ahh yes,I remember the posts on WAD Neal.I believe Greg amongst others has done the same.
The Vinyl Adventure
20-07-2010, 16:25
http://eshop.tirnaelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=46&products_id=183&zenid=1c0870891da884baeb40b090d9b781f9
This is the one I want right?
If that is right, then there you go everyone a useful link :)
Ali Tait
20-07-2010, 18:10
Those will do the job Hamish.You might want to try a few different ones to see what you like.
The Vinyl Adventure
20-07-2010, 18:16
Ta, yeah, one step at a time, I need to find out I it works in my hifi first :)
I'm really looking forward to comparing it to the majik ds-i!!
The Vinyl Adventure
20-07-2010, 18:22
£2.12
HighFidelityGuy
20-07-2010, 18:50
Dave, you definitely don't get any funny noises between tracks or when switching inputs? That would be the decider for me taking the muting relay out of circuit.
Nope. I've tried optical and coax inputs and I've not heard any funny noises between tracks. That's using the soundcard on my PC as a digital transport. I'm not sure if the soundcard mutes it's output between tracks. So I guess it will depend on how your source handles muting. I think it's worth trying once you've decided which caps to use in the long term. :)
http://eshop.tirnaelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=46&products_id=183&zenid=1c0870891da884baeb40b090d9b781f9
This is the one I want right?
If that is right, then there you go everyone a useful link :)
Hey Hamish..
thats the one Ive got from Jimmy at Tirna.
Its the Rubycon NA series...
think these are different from the ones (CA series?) that were fitted for the recent group buy Dave (hifidelityguy) organised for us?
I cant find anything online about the NA series, but Im assuming they are more modern than the CA..at least using the letter notation?
The ones from the link though are burning in nicely it has to be said...even at a couple of days.
big improvement over the opamp board/Grey Rubicon CE/AD826 opamps combo I had before.
Its just a lot more high end sounding...detail is sublime, bass through the floor (Stan got it right with kick drum hitting you in the back)...more of everything.
As others have reported, the increased dnamics are astonishing and to me best sum up the improvements..its as though there less to "get in the way" of the original sound.
To me its a bigger jumpo than fitting the Mutara regulators and the Elna Slimic IIs...
even a cack handed scotsman like me with no electronic skills done the job in 3 minutes..the opamp board just "pops" off.
I'm looking forward to your comparison between the Caiman and the Linn... :)
Next up, linear PSU from Maplins for me...big thanks to Jim(Trailer) for the 7520 PSU to use for the Maplins supply!
The Vinyl Adventure
20-07-2010, 22:53
Yeah, def should be interesting... The majik/dynamic is a different ball game to how the majik was without dynamik
It's reassuring that someone who calls them self a "cack handed scotsman" can do it :)
Has anyone tried the passive mod without the reg and capacitor changes? I'm wondering what the hierarchy is for the mods. Could it be regs 1st, caps 2nd, passive 3rd? Based on the assumption that the passive mod lets you hear more of what precedes it so the preceding sections need to be at their best?
I could ask the same re the 7520 as well but I expect the extra resolution of the Wolfson is an important factor.
StanleyB
21-07-2010, 07:38
You can start with any of the mods first. It's not a chicken and egg situation:).
You can start with any of the mods first. It's not a chicken and egg situation:).
Hi Stan, I'm aware that technically they can be done in any order but what I'm wondering is whether, say doing the passive mod on an otherwise unmodified 7520 might for instance show up noise from the standard regs. There are times when too much resolution downstream shows up upstream components. I'm thinking about synergy, rather than whether it technically works.
Has anyone tried the passive mod without the reg and capacitor changes? I'm wondering what the hierarchy is for the mods. Could it be regs 1st, caps 2nd, passive 3rd? Based on the assumption that the passive mod lets you hear more of what precedes it so the preceding sections need to be at their best?
I could ask the same re the 7520 as well but I expect the extra resolution of the Wolfson is an important factor.
Get Tirna to mod your 7520 to include the Wolfson Dac..its worth it.
Get Tirna to mod your 7520 to include the Wolfson Dac..its worth it.
Yes, there's no doubt I'm doing that (I won't tackle SMD), I'm trying to work out whether to do the other mods, though I'd do those myself. I know I'll end up doing the lot....
BTW, the reason I've not got around to any mods yet is that I've been focused on my 2 record decks and phono stages, I can only cope with optimising one type of source at a time. Oh yes, there's new preamp too...too many changes!
Ali Tait
21-07-2010, 07:56
Clive,I've done the passive mod on my 7510 which had previously had part of mod21 done (just the caps) The dac is otherwise standard.The passive mod certainly made by far the largest subjective difference to my ears.I used some Mundorf 'lytics,but have some SCR Obbligato on order as I reckon a film cap will give a better result in this application.
Clive,I've done the passive mod on my 7510 which had previously had part of mod21 done (just the caps) The dac is otherwise standard.The passive mod certainly made by far the largest subjective difference to my ears.I used some Mundorf 'lytics,but have some SCR Obbligato on order as I reckon a film cap will give a better result in this application.
Thanks Ali, that's very useful info. As my preamp has a 100k input impedance it seems I can go the film route too, even paper in oil though I expect film to work out better. I have various 0.47uF and 1uF caps.
Ali Tait
21-07-2010, 08:12
DiyHiFiSupply have Obbligatos at 47uF
DiyHiFiSupply have Obbligatos at 47uF
Am I right in thinking 0.47uF to 1uF would be ok for a preamp of 100k input impedance (actually 94.4k)?
I am looking to do the passive mod to this particular 7520. Is there likely to be any problem if I attach the caps to the via's (where the orange wires are already attached)?
I intend to use the variable output to attach the passive caps so that I can swap between the two.
The op-amp board is attached by the two orange wires and I wonder if adding the 47uf caps (or whatever value I chose) will affect the active operation?
Any ideas?
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/saxonsex/Beresford2.jpg
Ali Tait
21-07-2010, 09:22
[QUOTE=Clive;138972]Am I right in thinking 0.47uF to 1uF would be ok for a preamp of 100k input impedance (actually 94.4k)?[/QUOT
Yes I think so Clive.Try it and see.Shouldn't do any harm anyway.
Buggleskelly
21-07-2010, 09:22
Thanks Ali, that's very useful info. As my preamp has a 100k input impedance it seems I can go the film route too, even paper in oil though I expect film to work out better. I have various 0.47uF and 1uF caps.
I've been doing the passive mod on my 7510 and I agree with Ali it's the biggest bang for buck mod
So far I've tried out 47uf : Silmic II's, Nichicon ES & FG & KZ, Fine Gold" MUSE, Black Gate FK's.
My fav's so far are the Black Gates which I'm still running on one 7510 and on the other I'm just plumbed in Claritycap SA Range 4.7uf jobbies and these are sounding really nice. I had them knocking around from one of my valve amp projects so I thought I'd give'em a go. They are soaking in so I'll have another listen tonight.
The outputs are strapped down with a 100K TAKMAN resistors and this feeding a Silk TVC, which a 12K load. So with the 4.7uf it'ss around 3hz cut off.
I've also replaced the 5V regulator with an LM317 as they lower noise but I really dunno if that's made any difference though. Need to swop back at some time.
Just take the plunge you won't regret it :) Have fun.
Cheers / Stevie
HighFidelityGuy
21-07-2010, 10:28
Hi Stan, I'm aware that technically they can be done in any order but what I'm wondering is whether, say doing the passive mod on an otherwise unmodified 7520 might for instance show up noise from the standard regs. There are times when too much resolution downstream shows up upstream components. I'm thinking about synergy, rather than whether it technically works.
I would also say that the passive output mod has given me the biggest improvement overall. That's using very cheap caps as well, so the bang for buck value is huge. You could of course use very expensive caps which may work even better but it's not essential. I see what you're saying about the possible issue with upgrading downstream components first. The passive output does allow more detail through as well as improve the dynamics, so you will be letting more noise through if you don't upgrade the regs. However, I think the improvements outway this, especially if you're going to be upgrading the regs later anyway.
Also, the Murata regs don't affect the sound signature as such, they just improve the signal to noise ratio. So seen as the passive output caps can affect the sound signature and can take quite a bit of running in, I'd personally do the passive mod first. That way the caps can be running in while you wait for the regs to arrive. :)
Any reason not to try Black Gate 220uF 6.3v non-polars aside from possible charge/discharge thumps on power on&down? I just happen to have a pair.
HighFidelityGuy
21-07-2010, 12:53
Any reason not to try Black Gate 220uF 6.3v non-polars aside from possible charge/discharge thumps on power on&down? I just happen to have a pair.
Based on what others have said, I think this will depend on your amp. The roll off frequency at that capacitance rating will be way below 1Hz, so your amp may go into protection if it thinks it's been given a DC input. This will be dependant on how your amp deals with that situation though. Some have very little protection. A good amp shouldn't allow DC through to the speakers though, so there shouldn't be a safety issue I wouldn't have thought. You'll just have to decide if it's a risk you're willing to take. :)
Am I right in thinking 0.47uF to 1uF would be ok for a preamp of 100k input impedance (actually 94.4k)?
Clive that's fine, I'm currently using 0.47uF into 100K and there is no loss of Bass...
I would also say forget 'lytics and stick with film type caps they have a much more even response.
HighFidelityGuy
21-07-2010, 14:06
I've just taken delivery of some Mungdorf MKP 15uF film caps. Unfortunately I ordered the 33uF version but got sent the worng ones due to an error on the diyhi-fi.co.uk website. :rolleyes: So watch out for that one. I've emailed them about the issue. I might give the 15uF's a sneaky try seen as I don't have to solder them. That should give me an idea of what to expect after I get them exchanged. :eyebrows:
One further installation tip I've found, while I've been installing my Rubycon NA bipolars from Tirna Electronics. The picture says it all.
http://www.hifiwatcher.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/capacitor.gif
By the way, the Rubycons are adding much needed weight to the sound - above and beyond the Black Gate FKs.
Andrew
I am looking to do the passive mod to this particular 7520. Is there likely to be any problem if I attach the caps to the via's (where the orange wires are already attached)?
I intend to use the variable output to attach the passive caps so that I can swap between the two.
The op-amp board is attached by the two orange wires and I wonder if adding the 47uf caps (or whatever value I chose) will affect the active operation?
Any ideas?
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/saxonsex/Beresford2.jpg
Anyone?
By the way, the Rubycons are adding much needed weight to the sound - above and beyond the Black Gate FKs.
Nice diagram. This is what I've found with the Rubycon CE (grey) caps, the bass weight is superb. Do we know what the difference is between the CE and NA ranges?
drumlins4ever
22-07-2010, 13:01
Rubycons arrived from Tirna,, removed the op-amp board and inserted the 47uF caps into the PIN3A socket .
Sounds very promising already but I dont want to solder them in .
Just thinking of a way to secure them with some insulation tape so i can put the top lid back on and transport the dac without the worry of them falling out.
Anyone try this?
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 13:24
Got mine from tirna too ... Doesn't work to well as a pre to the power amp in a nad c326bbe... Sounded very noisey. Works into the aux in though... Although it is mailing the monitor audio rs8 speakers sound bright and boomy.... But I fear that is more likely the bright and boomy rs8's sounding more bright and boomy beacuse that's how they sound
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 13:25
... This is kit at work I'm playing with... Not my own... I thought I'd try it on stuff I didn't mind breaking first :)
I use some double-sided foam tabs on the relay chip. The caps stick nicely to them when folder over.
I have done the passsive mod. I started with 47k resistors as I use a Lightspeed Attenuator and thought it might take more than 10k to get a good match. with 47k I still got some distortion and tried 100k. Bingo! spot on. It has only had a couple of hours but I can tell already that I like it. It retains the same sonic signature of the "original" i.e op-amped output, and whilst being just as detailed is less "in yer face". I find I can increase the volume without it getting too edgy. Well worth a couple of quid and if you use the variable phonos, you can switch between the two.
Hamish Got mine from tirna too ... Doesn't work to well as a pre to the power amp in a nad c326bbe... Sounded very noisey. Works into the aux in though... Although it is mailing the monitor audio rs8 speakers sound bright and boomy.... But I fear that is more likely the bright and boomy rs8's sounding more bright and boomy beacuse that's how they sound
Hamish. See above.
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 14:06
cheers buddy... il try it in my kit at home first... im not bothered about the kit here ... i just wanted to see if it worked ... and i hadn't broken anything...
with that in mind....if i have any issue at home, what question do i need to ask anthonytd to find out what is the perfect cap value? (do i mean value?... sorry i am trying to learn... its just a bit of a confusing load of nonsence) or will the 100uf one more likely work anyway?
wow, this wee tweak actually works!
can confirm a more open and "bigger" soundstage with better seperation.
Regarding the caps falling out, when I pulled one out to reverse the way it fitted in (as per the diagram) it took a wee bit of pull to get it out...I dont think I'd have any problem with them falling out when moving the dac out - and in fact I didn't when unscrewing the case and moving the Dac this morning.
Just dont wave it about your head and you should be fine ;)
cheers buddy... il try it in my kit at home first... im not bothered about the kit here ... i just wanted to see if it worked ... and i hadn't broken anything...
with that in mind....if i have any issue at home, what question do i need to ask anthonytd to find out what is the perfect cap value? (do i mean value?... sorry i am trying to learn... its just a bit of a confusing load of nonsence) or will the 100uf one more likely work anyway?
Hamish. Any distortion would not be as a result of the value of the caps. It is normally a mis-match with the impedance of the pre-amp. This can be overcome by attaching the right value resistor between the signal input and Grd for each channel. See the resistors attached in this pic.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/saxonsex/Fog003.jpg
...but in doing so you place a resistance in parallel with the input impedance of the amp/preamp making the impedance lower...you need to 'fix' the amp/preamp not place shunt resistors in the DAC.
Ali Tait
22-07-2010, 17:05
wow, this wee tweak actually works!
can confirm a more open and "bigger" soundstage with better seperation.
Regarding the caps falling out, when I pulled one out to reverse the way it fitted in (as per the diagram) it took a wee bit of pull to get it out...I dont think I'd have any problem with them falling out when moving the dac out - and in fact I didn't when unscrewing the case and moving the Dac this morning.
Just dont wave it about your head and you should be fine ;)
Good stuff Gary,look forward to hearing yours against the 7510 and the AN.
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 18:11
Had about 5 hours running in at work... Got home had about 45mins here so far.
First impressions, mixed bag...compared to the majik, Sound stage has is sat back, imaging seems more blurred and has lost a lot of the majik ds-i's 3d ness... For want of a better description. The bass sounds stronger and stands out as having more texture.. In fact everything has a touch more texture than the ds-i! The caiman sound a little more musical, smoother and slightly less edgy than the ds-i... Not unimpressed by any stretch. I don't think either is better, just different, for me the ds-I has the edge at the moment although that is only for it's ability to put instruments in the room within the soundstage.. If the caiman did that too, it would win!... Any caps better at 3dness? Should I wait for these to burn in a bit more?
I will leave the caiman running whilst I sit an listen to music this evening and go back and forth to it periodically to see how it's doing.
If I'm expecting these caps to run in, how long should I expect to wait?
The new system is much better at picking out difference in dacs I think... I'm less disolutioned with them now :)
drumlins4ever
22-07-2010, 18:13
Fantastic tweak indeed ,would recommend it to any 7520 owner .
Have about 5 hrs burn in now but even instantly they made a much bigger difference than changing opamps ,
Have noticed that i need to turn up the volume a few notches more on my amp now but this is not a problem,
Wondering how much more of a difference id get if i upgraded to the wolfson chip too? mmmmmm.....
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 18:16
Actually il retract that bit about the dsi having the edge... I'm being more seduced my the musicality ... And with my Adams already kicking me into the sofa with a bit of bass the caiman seems to have adde to that!
I do wish for the 3dness and focus of the majik soundstage though....
I forgot to mention, it much better than the active output thing though... The majik ds-I had a def edge on that.
It silly this ... I seem to be having a nver ending competion between these 2 dacs...
Next stage is send the majik to audiocom
Ali Tait
22-07-2010, 18:19
Give the caps a chance Hamish,maybe leave something on repeat overnight into the dac.
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 18:26
Yeah, that's a done deal matey... I'm giving my self the afternoon off tomorrow ... Il cone back to it then!
Ali Tait
22-07-2010, 18:30
Some caps can take ages I've found.When I first fitted the SCR teflons to my amp,I reckon they took weeks to settle properly.
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 18:33
... I shall stick with these for a few weeks then...
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 18:34
Once in a while I hear the odd slight click.. They usually come in little groups of clicks then don't happen for a while....?
Ali Tait
22-07-2010, 18:39
Maybe the lack of muting causing this?
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 18:44
Mine are only slotted into the sockets I took the active thing out of... I thought that meant the muting thing was still in there?
Muting only happens between tracks. If you hear clicks during listening then it's errors in the data or original mastering.
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 19:04
It's not happend again for ages now... And I can't remember which track it was on rumours I heard it... Il have to listen to it all through again sometime. I know something right is happening as I just realised I have just been listening to the music for the last 20 mins and forgot about the dac...
I've finally done the passive mod on my 7520. The only mod it had was a THS4032 opamp. For capacitors I used Obbligato 1uF, these capacitors are well used so burn-in really isn't needed. Transport is XP/Foobar/ASIO/USB.
The effect was very dramatic. Sound stage is much deeper, there's more bass and the bass is tighter. Treble is less splashy. Overall it sounds a heck of a lot less digital and more like my record decks, especially with regard to sound stage depth.
Hmmm, Wolfson next I suppose.
drumlins4ever
22-07-2010, 19:41
I've finally done the passive mod on my 7520. The only mod it had was a THS4032 opamp. For capacitors I used Obbligato 1uF, these capacitors are well used so burn-in really isn't needed. Transport is XP/Foobar/ASIO/USB.
The effect was very dramatic. Sound stage is much deeper, there's more bass and the bass is tighter. Treble is less splashy. Overall it sounds a heck of a lot less digital and more like my record decks, especially with regard to sound stage depth.
Hmmm, Wolfson next I suppose.
Thinking of going the wolfson route too but Im unsure if it would really make that big of a difference after the passive mod :scratch:
Thinking of going the wolfson route too but Im unsure if it would really make that big of a difference after the passive mod :scratch:
I must admit I'm unsure. The only aspect that betrays the 7520 passive as digital is a slight harshness on sibilants, this is a redbook trait I just about always hear. I worry that a Wolfson could make this worse due to greater clarity, or could it be smoother?
Ali Tait
22-07-2010, 19:48
Sounds good Clive,and the kind of sound I'm after.I'm waiting for some Obbligatos from diyhifisupply.
Sounds good Clive,and the kind of sound I'm after.I'm waiting for some Obbligatos from diyhifisupply.
Ali, if you get the same result I'm sure you'll be pleased. I can't imagine that any polarised caps can be as good, even BGs, though they may get close. Larger values such as 47uF I expect won't help either.
This sound is seriously good.....previously I'd stopped listening to my wavs as my record decks were not simply better but had a much more musical character. The main deck / arm / cartridge is close to being a £5k combination. The 7520 passive isn't disgraced, it's not as good but it's possible now to swap between them and not feel short-changed.
Ali Tait
22-07-2010, 20:15
:) It's 47uF I have coming! The Pre 2 has a 100k pot though,so I should get away with 1uF also.I'll get some 1 uF's too..
:) It's 47uF I have coming! The Pre 2 has a 100k pot though,so I should get away with 1uF also.I'll get some 1 uF's too..
Here's how the 1uFs fit, no problem closing the lid. Sorry to say but smaller caps almost invariably sound better. Bass is great via my 18 inch dipole bass drivers.....nothing's missing!
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/cmeakins/1007220002.jpg
Ali Tait
22-07-2010, 20:50
I'll see how are against a smaller value.
Nice installation, Clive. I have a pair of Claritycap ESA arriving soon to try, should be a similar fit to your Obbligatos.
You really should do something about those regulators and tantalum caps, though
:)
Ali Tait
22-07-2010, 21:00
Clarity Cap MR's look nice,not tried them before.A pair is half the price of the dac though!
Indeed, I don't need to pay that much for what is essentially a secondary source for me.
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 21:12
Oh dear, Hannah just got home and said "what have you done to the hifi, it sounds boring"
Nice installation, Clive. I have a pair of Claritycap ESA arriving soon to try, should be a similar fit to your Obbligatos.
You really should do something about those regulators and tantalum caps, though
:)
I have some Clarity SA waiting to go into a phono stage, they are about half the diameter of the Obbligatos.
I agree about the tants and regs. I have some older type Burson regs I could drop in. I expect better caps will help the slight top end harshness vs my vinyl rigs. I'm in a quandary about the Wolfson though, is it any smoother than the 7520 DAC? More detailed yes, but if it's not smoother I might not be happy.
Will the cap upgrades reduce harshness? I must add, the DAC is not especially harsh, indeed it's harsh of me to compare it to a £5k vinyl front end.
Stratmangler
22-07-2010, 21:44
Oh dear, Hannah just got home and said "what have you done to the hifi, it sounds boring"
You still playing the Ting Tings ?
No bleedin' wonder !!! ;)
The Vinyl Adventure
22-07-2010, 21:47
... Ha, no that finished... Mgmt when Hannah got back (that she likes) and arcade fire now... Same effect... I guess it's a matter of taste.. Il let these'uns run in and try her blind in a week or so see what she says
I'm in a quandary about the Wolfson though, is it any smoother than the 7520 DAC? More detailed yes, but if it's not smoother I might not be happy.
Will the cap upgrades reduce harshness? I must add, the DAC is not especially harsh, indeed it's harsh of me to compare it to a £5k vinyl front end.
The Wolfson DAC is both detailed and smooth and the Elna Silmic II caps to replace the tants improve the bloom and midrange transparency. Better regs (in my case Dexa) also help. In no way is the Caiman harsh, just very detailed and dynamic.
The Wolfson DAC is both detailed and smooth and the Elna Silmic II caps to replace the tants improve the bloom and midrange transparency. Better regs (in my case Dexa) also help. In no way is the Caiman harsh, just very detailed and dynamic.
OK, you've sold me. I'll decide on whether to use my Bursons or Murata, the Bursons are a little large, the one near the phonos would be tight.
amdismal
23-07-2010, 18:15
I've just got some caps (and a solder station, since my iron broke) for this, and was about to crack on. However it is a long thread, and while I think I've read it all, can anyone confirm:
- Is the summary on the first page by Stan still up to date?
- Do I need to reverse the channels from his photo?
Cheers
Ali Tait
23-07-2010, 18:43
Having done the mod and been pleased with the results on my 7510,today I wired up a regulated linear power supply,similar to this.I managed to liberate a few from work,and I've got one feeding the Touch also-
http://uk.farnell.com/tdk-lambda/sws150-15/linear-voltage-regulator-nw/dp/1817240
I've not modded the dac before apart from part of mod21,fitting some BG caps,and of course the passive mod,but fitting the linear supply has really made a difference.In fact the Beresford is now approaching the AN dac,though that is still better.Gary has been kind enough to agree to come over with his modded Caiman to compare tomorrow,so we'll see how that goes.It'll be interesting to see if this linear supply makes a difference to it,fitted as it is with the Murata regs.
With a linear reg supply of 15V, especially if this is a Teddyreg, Burson, Dexa, MuRata etc, shouldn't we be removing the 10,000uF cap in the DAC and replacing with a 10uF film type?
I've just got some caps (and a solder station, since my iron broke) for this, and was about to crack on. However it is a long thread, and while I think I've read it all, can anyone confirm:
- Is the summary on the first page by Stan still up to date?
- Do I need to reverse the channels from his photo?
Cheers
If you are running a 7520 or Caiman, you may prefer the approach described in the following links:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=135736&postcount=117
and
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=139188&postcount=381
By the way, still loving the Rubycon NA's - great weight and body while sounding even more tuneful and more open than before (starting to approach the Black Gates in that respect).
Andrew
Oo Oo Oo I am liking this mod. Only got a few cheapy polarised caps my dad had hanging around but so far so good!!!
Leaving on tonight to burn in methinks.
Butuz
Well maybe one mod too many.
Caiman just gone really faint after changing capacitors for this passive mod. Was using Rubycon non-polar CA's the grey ones, the same as I used on the op amp board mod 7 months ago. I used the version of the mod that pushed the caps into the PIN3B sockets. It was working great, loved the improvement. But you know how the life of a modder goes, someone suggest some slif=ght change and you know you have to try it.
I saw a post 2 or 3 days ago that showed a picture of laying one capacitor to the right and one to the left. Supposedly gave better channel seperation. Well changed one over to try that and now the music is really really faint. So tried putting the op amp board back in, but still really really faint.
Obviously somethings wrong. Checked both PCB's top and bottom looking for signs of burning, broken traces, loose components, cannot find a thing wrong.
Any suggestions guys how to start diagnosing the problem ?
Help !!!!:(
Frizzup
Hmmmm... Have you plugged the DAC in via its variable output and with its volume knob turned down?
The other culprit could be PIN3B socket as it is a bit delicate, although you have checked the board. Might you have wobbled it when changing caps and loosened its soldering joints underneath? If it is not faint over the headphone output (via the op amp board), then that could also indicate you've cracked one or more solder joints under PIN3B.
The only other thought is static, or if you made the change when the unit was powered up.
Andrew
StanleyB
24-07-2010, 08:22
I would check that you have plugged your amp into the fixed output of the DAC, just in case it is the volume control.
But my biggest fear is that you might have swapped the caps round whilst the DAC was still connected to the mains supply. The WM8716 might have been knocked out. It's a 15 minutes job to change the WM8716, if you have steady hands like a surgeon, nerves of steel, and eagle sharp eyes.
Hmmmm... Have you plugged the DAC in via its variable output and with its volume knob turned down?
The other culprit could be PIN3B socket as it is a bit delicate, although you have checked the board. Might you have wobbled it when changing caps and loosened its soldering joints underneath? If it is not faint over the headphone output (via the op amp board), then that could also indicate you've cracked one or more solder joints under PIN3B.
The only other thought is static, or if you made the change when the unit was powered up.
Andrew
Andrew,
I've tried the variable output, the fixed output, and the headphones output. All the same very faint sound on full volume. I've checked all the grey ribbon connections between the two PCB's with a multimeter all show to be ok. Looking under the PCB now around PIN3B, no obvious cracks. :scratch:
Bit of a mystery, a very expensive mystery, with the the murata regs, elna II's, god knows how many ops amps I've bought in the last 12 months. :(
I'll keep checking but may have to just bite the bullet and start again.
Hello Stanley any weekend Caiman specials coming up ?:eyebrows:
Frizzup
I would check that you have plugged your amp into the fixed output of the DAC, just in case it is the volume control.
But my biggest fear is that you might have swapped the caps round whilst the DAC was still connected to the mains supply. The WM8716 might have been knocked out. It's a 15 minutes job to change the WM8716, if you have steady hands like a surgeon, nerves of steel, and eagle sharp eyes.
Checked that it is plugged in correctly. No the DAC was taken from the lounge into my office to change the capacitors.
Frizzup
StanleyB
24-07-2010, 10:50
Hello Stanley any weekend Caiman specials coming up ?:eyebrows:
Frizzup
I would change the WM8716, or ask someone with the relevant skills to change it. The chip is not expensive from Mouser or Digikey.
If you are really stuck on replacing the chip, I can sort you out with a replacement unit under my beta tester scheme. Make me an offer via PM :).
amdismal
25-07-2010, 09:10
If you are running a 7520 or Caiman, you may prefer the approach described in the following links:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=135736&postcount=117
and
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=139188&postcount=381
By the way, still loving the Rubycon NA's - great weight and body while sounding even more tuneful and more open than before (starting to approach the Black Gates in that respect).
Andrew
That is indeed very easy. I opened up the Caiman, pulled out the output board, stuck in the caps and it worked perfectly - five minute job, easily reversible.
Sadly I cannot talk about the quality yet as I haven't listened to the DAC on the main system before, and am in the process of swapping my amp! I may get onto that next weekend. It does sound very nice, although the loss in gain means that it doesn't go quite loud enough in the main system. The second system (which is where the B DAC was always intended) should be fine though.
Go to a couple of conferences for two weeks and another 200 posts to catch up on. Interesting to read peoples different findings with different output coupling capacitors. Looking at Rubycon CE's, they seem to used in flash guns etc, ie. rapid high current discharge. Can we correlate designed usage to sound quality I wonder?
Cheers Andy
These are just coupling capacitors, the same rules for sonics apply as they do for phono stages, preamps, power amps etc. Polarised generally sound poor in comparison to film, some will like PIO. Smaller values will sound better than larger values. There will be some very cost effective caps for the sound, eg photoflash. 47uF is used by Stan as it's good for a big range of preamps though this does push towards electrolytics, quite a number of people will have preamp with a high input impedance, eg 47k to 100k. Those of us can be using film or PIO of around 1uF.
Even for a 10k preamp input impedance, 3uF should be fine so a film is very viable. Or have a I missed something?
Hi Clive,
Is there an upper limit on dielectric strength that can be used, lots of the polyprop film caps are 600 or 1000 Vdc whereas electrolytes are down at a few 10's Vdc. I'm sure somewhere buried in the thread there was a comment about this but I've lost track.
Cheers Andy
Ali Tait
25-07-2010, 15:22
I commented that someone I know tried high voltage caps in his diy dac and was unimpressed with the sound.I've fitted some SCR Obbligato 47uF 250v,which are too big for the case so I've just left the lid off for now.I may recase the dac if I like the caps enough.
I commented that someone I know tried high voltage caps in his diy dac and was unimpressed with the sound.I've fitted some SCR Obbligato 47uF 250v,which are too big for the case so I've just left the lid off for now.I may recase the dac if I like the caps enough.
The Obbligatos I'm using are 630V (they sound good), I agree it makes sense that 64V or 200V are used but in polyprops these ratings are rare, 450V or 630V being more common. Maybe there are some good MKP block style caps in 64V, possibly by EVOX / Rifa.
Re OLEDs comments, yes electrolytics can be got as 10V versions but you don't normally see electrolytics used as coupling caps in decent hifi gear, there's a reason for this.....they aren't the best sounding!
Some lower voltage caps are in the list described here:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
I was reading that site earlier as well, interesting if a bit diminishing returns ish. My original question was more to ask if the high rated dielectric strength causes any problems in this low voltage and current application? I cannot think of a reason why it should but would be interested to find out if there was.
Cheers
Having some success now with the 6.3V version of the 47uF Nichicon Muse ES. More promising than the 16V version (brief listen did not impress me as much as the 6.3V version).
Nice sweet treble, excellent clarity and harmonics (about on a par with the Black Gates), extended bass and a quick break-in time. The delicacy/texture of mids and sweet/controlled treble gives a fast sound that's groovy when the music is groovy. Very similar to a Rega-style of presentation. Slight downer is that I could do with a stronger upper-bass (like the Rubycon NA has a good quantity of), but that may come in time.
This is fast becoming my favourite cap.
Andrew
I was reading that site earlier as well, interesting if a bit diminishing returns ish. My original question was more to ask if the high rated dielectric strength causes any problems in this low voltage and current application? I cannot think of a reason why it should but would be interested to find out if there was.
Cheers
I don't believe a high voltage rated cap necessarily sounds good or bad, other factors are probably more important but it's one of those suck it and see aspects. Most aspects of hifi are about finding the best mix and compromise, with coupling caps this is very much the case.
Ali Tait
25-07-2010, 19:09
The Obbs sound good but a but all over the place at the moment,however bass seems better and deeper than the Mundorfs.I suspect at these voltages they may take quite a while to run in.
Biggest problem though is that no two peoples systems are the same (probably) and definitely no two people here the same way. Suck it and see is spot on, not much science can do for us here, but it all adds to the fun of it.
Stratmangler
25-07-2010, 20:27
I've got 28p worth of non polarised 10uF electrolytics from Maplin running in my Caiman at the minute.
I was astonished at how easy it was to perform the mod (open case, remove daughter board, fit caps, replace lid) as it never seemed to be as easy working on the TC7510.
The change in sonic output is not subtle - I'm going to run with this for a good while before coming to any conclusions.
Where did that extra octave of bass come from ?
:cool:
Ali Tait
25-07-2010, 20:29
Good innit?
Stratmangler
25-07-2010, 20:35
You're not jesting !!!:)
Hello - first post - this is a FANTASTIC site.
I'm going to use the Rubycon 47ufs from the board to two new sockets.
My Marantz power amps are 30kohms input impedance. Should I be putting in a resistor in series and if so what value would you recommend?
Thanking you.
I'm going to use the Rubycon 47ufs from the board to two new sockets.
My Marantz power amps are 30kohms input impedance. Should I be putting in a resistor in series and if so what value would you recommend?
No, leave the input impedance at 30k, with 47uF Rubycons you will have a very low frequency roll-off anyway.
You probably need to get over to the welcome area to introduce yourself before the membership police get to you :)
Has anyone else discovered that their power button on their dac now has no effect when using this mod?
The Vinyl Adventure
26-07-2010, 21:56
My lights do odd things... When I turn it on sometimes 2 of them light up?
An update a day after changing the caps for the 6.3V version of the 47uF Nichicon Muse ES. These are really getting surprisingly tuneful - singers really sound like they mean what they are singing. On top of this, the rhythm is very persistent and unshakeable, particularly as it shares the Black Gate trait of excellent clarity in a dense mix, making rhythmic turns background musicians/sound even more evident.
Bass is also improving and giving better impact on drums. Upper bass is starting to fill out. Great tonal texture, brilliant with electric guitars - perhaps the Black Gates were a smidgen better (i.e. a barely noticeable difference).
Andrew
My lights do odd things... When I turn it on sometimes 2 of them light up?
Same here, without this particular mod in effect.....
Has anyone else discovered that their power button on their dac now has no effect when using this mod?
I would think that only happens when you bypass the muting relay by soldering direct. I think the DAC chip is permanently powered.
An update on the Rubycon CE bipolars, they have now come fully on song and sound very good indeed with transparent and detailed midrange, clean extended top and very deep, tight bass. The latter has got the air moving in the way that the Caiman did with the op-amp board, but with all the benefits of added clarity throughout the frequency range.
I have a pair of Claritycaps to try next.
Ali Tait
27-07-2010, 07:59
Which ones Martin,and what value?
Which ones Martin,and what value?
Sorry, Rubycon CE bipolar (grey) 47uF 16V.
Ali Tait
27-07-2010, 08:48
No,the Clarity Caps.
Ali Tait
27-07-2010, 18:30
Thanks,let us know how they sound.I was considering the MR's,but a bit pricy!
Very pricey and too large to fit too.
I've put the Rubycon 47uf 50v in place of the opamp board and I am stunned.
Whilst the bottom end seems a bit lacking the mid & top are fantastic. Lost that bit of grittyness I didn't like and opened up the sound.
I have a 7520. I removed the USB board whilst in there.
I will put two new phono sockets on the back and make a daughter board and connect this to the PCB bypassing the automutes.
Whilst the bottom end seems a bit lacking the mid & top are fantastic
Give it time. The bass comes in beautifully after about a week of running. Are yours the CE or NA types?
drumlins4ever
27-07-2010, 19:36
the rubycons i got from Tirna have been in my 7520 close to a wk now and ive been running them 24/7.
Cant see myself ever putting the opamp board back in , Sound is natural ,smoother than ever before and bass is glorious gaining a good deal of extra weight and control.
Bass texctures are also more descernable.
My proac's are very revealing and id struggled to get a hint of siblance on treble to back down always figuring it was down to room acoustics.
Doing this mod has solved my problem , any unnatural siblance is gone and the speakers sound really high end, treble is highly detailed but smooth and natural.
It seems to me that the opamps were adding something akin to a filter on the sound ,
Ali Tait
27-07-2010, 20:05
Very pricey and too large to fit too.
I have SCR Obbligatos in, which are already too big.Running with the lid off at the moment.If I find caps I like enough I'll rehouse the dac.
Ok, project for tomorrow: replace the large reservoir cap with a WIMA 22uF, replace the resistor feeding the 5V Dexa regulator with a link, fit the Claritycaps in place of the (very good) Rubycons. Stand back and wait for the blast...
Give it time. The bass comes in beautifully after about a week of running. Are yours the CE or NA types?
Um... They're from Tirna.
Um... They're from Tirna.
:)
Do they have the letters CE or NA on them? Are they grey or black?
drumlins4ever
27-07-2010, 21:01
the tirna ones are black
the tirna ones are black
black
I think the black ones are NA. I only know the CE (grey) ones which are very good.
Stratmangler
27-07-2010, 22:55
I've pulled out the caps and reinstalled the daughterboard - I was getting some horrible high frequency noises when playing DVDs, the noises occurring usually at the start of the main feature.
It wouldn't be a problem, but or the fact that the volume control is generally cranked higher for DVD movies than it is for music, as the movie discs are generally mastered at a lower level.
And with the elevated volume levels the noises become too much.
So, sitting back and thinking of earlier posts in the thread, I remembered this (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=136331&postcount=207) one.
My thoughts are along these lines - if I remove the left hand op-amp and add the wire links, then if I place the caps somewhere in circuit between the DIL socket for the op-amp and the pins on the board connector then I should get the benefits of the passive mod with the muting circuit still functional.
Anyone concur ?
Odd, I listened out for noise and didn't here any and I play at exteremely high levels 100db+. I will have another listen to some piano\classical.
What's the benefit of the muting circuit? It annoys me endlessly as everytime a music track starts & ends and got massive cracks (pre mod) and now I get very low volume pop noise (post mod).
Ok, project for tomorrow: replace the large reservoir cap with a WIMA 22uF, replace the resistor feeding the 5V Dexa regulator with a link, fit the Claritycaps in place of the (very good) Rubycons. Stand back and wait for the blast...
Please do tell what happens!
Stratmangler
28-07-2010, 12:32
Scrub my last post - it might be a problem specific to 1 DVD disc.
Scrub my last post - it might be a problem specific to 1 DVD disc.
Make sure your DVD DVD player's optical output is set to Stereo and not surround. Also make sure the actual DVD's audio settings are set to stereo if the DVD has that option.
I've noticed on mine if my Blue Ray / DVD / Xbox is set to surround all I get via the 7520 is ultra loud white noise / screeching.
Butuz
Very happy. Thank you Stanley & Co for your input.
Below is my modded 7520...
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nF_NkmjRbXg/TFA3529Y3vI/AAAAAAAAByk/nLJ3Iftwqc0/s1280/rear.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nF_NkmjRbXg/TFA36Rcl93I/AAAAAAAAByo/ZCsx2GYmnXI/s1152/Int.jpg
ello..
I'm thinking of trying out different caps in my passive modded Dac (no opamp board) and having read through the thread again (phew!) the Nichion Muse types are well liked?
Im unsure which are the BEST ones for sound quality...Leo and a couple of others talk about the "FK" type...but I can see them on the Hificollective page?
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/nichicon.html
I'm thinking the KZ type maybe?
But going by price (and other caps descriptions) they too seem geared towards audio use.
Any thoughts, experience on which to try out?
At the price I might as well try a few, but not looking to faff about too much with this.. :)
I'm using the Tirna supplied black Rubycons at the moment, which sound great, just curious if I can get better!
Also, the Tirna ones are 50V...is there any advantage to going to a lower voltage..maybe 16v or 6.5v...as I think theres only 2.5 or so volts go across the two caps?
ta much.
Gaz.
Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 15:52
You run the dac into the Cambridge? If so ,and you can find out the input impedance of the amp,you could use a film cap of 0.47uF,if the impedance is around 100k,in which case Clarity Cap would be a good choice at a reasonable price.
Thanks for that Ali,
the impedance on my Cambridge is 47k, how would that go with a clarity cap?
ta.
Anything between 1uf and 4.7uf IMO.
You used to be able to get free samples of Claritycaps. I got some 1uf.
Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 17:42
1uF here-
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/claritycap_esa.html
These are good caps IMO.Amazing value for money.
1uF here-
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/claritycap_esa.html
These are good caps IMO.Amazing value for money.
Blimey they were about a £quid each when I got mine ;)
Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 19:32
Credit crunch!
Sounds good guys..but would they fit in the Bdac case?
Ali, you had something like this in your 7510, and I remember the case was open!
Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 19:44
Nah that was 47uF Obbligatos,much bigger.The ESA's are 20mm diameter,so I think they'd be fine.
I take it the Clarity's aren't bipolar...?
so it would just be a case of noting which one was positive and negative and slot each wire into the appropriate hole in the opamp board socket on the PCB as per the passive out mod?
ta.
thinking of pulling the trigger on this one tonight :) (yes im bored)
Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 19:53
Doesn't matter which way round you put them,but otherwise yes.
Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 19:55
Though thinking about it,they may not fit there,so may need some wire soldering on so the caps can be fitted in at the side,as per the photo I posted of mine with mundorfs in.
got a link to the photo Ali?
ta.
just put my sample request into Claritycap......hopefully they ship to the USA :)
I've been very happy with the sound of my Muse caps thus far. So much so, I listed my modified opamp boards for sale.
If anyone state side needs a few 4.7uf Nichicon Muse caps to try this out, send me an email and I can mail them out to you.
Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 20:12
got a link to the photo Ali?
ta.
That took some finding!
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6910&page=26
Cheers Ali!
The threads a bi of a monster now!
What kinda wire did you use, or does it not really matter, just something decent?
Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 20:50
Nothing special,just some hook-up wire I have.I can do it for you if you like.
Right now my blog has been updated with the latest on my passive mod quest (see here http://www.hifiwatcher.com/?p=723&preview=true). I'm back on with the Black Gates, but would also recommend the MUSE ES (probably need a good 3-4 weeks for their performance to stabilise.
Polypropylenes are likely to be even better but haven't yet tried them out in the Beresford.
Andrew
Thanks for that Ali, I'll try a few different "normal" caps first before I bring out the big guns! :)
Andrew, that link was very informative, cheers.
I ordered a couple of the MUSE ES caps...and thought I might as well try a few others as they are so cheap.
So a cap bake off coming up soon.
I ordered..
47uF 6.3V Nichicon ES
47uF 10V Nichicon FG
47uF 50V Nichicon KZ
47uF 25V Nichicon KZ
and
47uF 10V Elna Silmic II.
Nick over at Hifi collective reckoned the Slimic's were the best sounding, so should be interesting to see how they are compared to the ones folk on here have tried.
Will take a while though, as I want to give each one time to settle in.
Gaz.
Ali Tait
17-08-2010, 17:28
Still think the Clarity Caps will better all of those,but YMMV.
Obviously down to personal taste but I've tried both Nichicon FG and SilmicII, I prefer the grey Rubycons over both those .
Its worth trying these different types out yourself though :)
Reid Malenfant
17-08-2010, 18:06
47uF 6.3V Nichicon ES
47uF 10V Nichicon FG
47uF 50V Nichicon KZ
47uF 25V Nichicon KZ
and
47uF 10V Elna Silmic II.
What no Sanyo Os-cons? :eek: Actually i'm being serious, Os-cons should sound better than the above as they have a solid electrolyte rather than liquid. Super low ESR over a really wide bandwidth & though it's not relevant a massive ripple current capability.
By the way, don't bother checking out the 47uf 25V KZ 2457 Go straight for the 50V version as this will give you better performance due to lower losses :)
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