View Full Version : The end of May.
chris@panteg
24-05-2019, 09:52
I know there is another week to go, but wanted to say that it's the end of May..
It's been real.
The end of May's not until next week, after which it'll be June.
Marco.
chris@panteg
24-05-2019, 10:57
The end of May's not until next week, after which it'll be June.
Marco.
Normally the end of May is not in June but on this occasion it is;)
walpurgis
24-05-2019, 12:55
You need to srop smoking that 'funny baccy' Chris. :)
Lol, he's obviously referring to poor old Theresa.... And who needs a good boot up the arse, to help her on her way!
Marco.
Lol, he's obviously referring to poor old Theresa.... And who needs a good boot up the arse, to help her on her way!
Marco.
Might've been obvious for you but I also thought Chris was off his tits on something good.
as long as the end of may doesnt bring us to a Karlof
as long as the end of may doesnt bring us to a Karlof
One Westmonster scumbag, Tory or otherwise, is as bad as another, mate. Don't worry, come 'Independence Day', you'll be able to smile again!;)
Marco.
Might've been obvious for you but I also thought Chris was off his tits on something good.
Shitfaced on something good, on a Friday, is defo the way to go!:peace::respect:
Marco.
Audio Al
24-05-2019, 14:31
Lol, he's obviously referring to poor old Theresa.... And who needs a good boot up the arse, to help her on her way!
Marco.
TFFT :D
Pigmy Pony
24-05-2019, 16:27
Ne'er cast a clout till May is out
She blubbed on way to the axeman
She knew it was a poison chalice when she took the job. It would have taken someone with superhuman abilities to make it work, and she was always pretty mediocre as proven by calling that stupid general election and losing her majority. Any fool could have told her that would happen.
Still she got to the top job, that in itself is some achievement especially for a woman. And she's quitting on her own terms unlike Gordon Brown. How he's still got the nerve to show his face in public I can never grasp.
She's being fired by the grey suits.
They hope to get a no deal brexit out of it.
Only sensible action is another referendum tbh. People now have an idea what will happen now.
They didn't before. Either that or a no brexit, although without one it's unlikely
I disagree. Anyway I fail to see how changing the leader will break the deadlock in Parliament. It's now a choice between the deal on the table or no deal and a majority of MPs don't want either. I think we should toss a coin to decide it. Show it live on BB1 after Match Of The Day. The Queen herself shall do the honours, using one of those old 'EEC ' commemorative ten bob coins with all the joined hands on the reverse.
Timing.. Probably no time to get a proper reasoned finale so it will end up no deal 75% or stay 25%
It won't be stay. It might be leave but in name only which is essentially May's deal. There's no way the referendum result will be reneged on. Breaking the illusion of democracy is not something that would ever be allowed to happen in this country. The politicians would not be allowed to do it.
A no deal without an Act of Parliament authorising Brexit would be unconstitutional. The fall back in law is for brexit to lapse.
I'll just be glad when the whole bloody thing is over, and we don't have to hear the 'B' word every fucking two minutes!:rolleyes:
Get the yawn-inducing PISH done and dusted, ASAP, then we can get back normal, and other more important things.
Marco.
walpurgis
24-05-2019, 18:02
The government have allowed the whole thing to become an embarrassing shambles. They look clueless, as will the whole nation if we opt for another referendum. Even worse if the result should reverse the original 'out' vote, that would look so hopelessly indecisive, we'd be a laughing stock!!
A no deal without an Act of Parliament authorising Brexit would be unconstitutional. The fall back in law is for brexit to lapse.
Fair point. That's why at some point they will have to vote for some form of 'Brexit'.
Hey I'm on record here as saying even before the referendum that if we did vote out (which seemed unlikely at the time) we would never actually leave in reality. It just takes a lot of time for due process to grind its way to that point.
Patrick Dixon
24-05-2019, 18:23
Good riddance to May but I am worried about what comes next. It would be nice if was just June and then July but suspect it might be something much worse beginning with a J.
I think we should toss a coin to decide it.
If only it were that trivial ...
Pigmy Pony
24-05-2019, 18:29
Good riddance to May but I am worried about what comes next. It would be nice if was just June and then July but suspect it might be something much worse beginning with a J.
If only it were that trivial ...
What, Jimmy Krankie? That's got to be an improvement. In fact it would be fandabidosie.
The government have allowed the whole thing to become an embarrassing shambles. !
I don't know. I'm more inclined to think that what we are seeing is simply the world's oldest and most successful system of government in action. It just happens to look like it's a shambles.
I feel sorry for Teresa to be honest... :sofa: it was always going to be a shit job, and with most of the muppets in her party and labour fannying around (at best) she was never going to succeed but she gave it a good go. I voted remain in the referendum, but am not a remoaner and respect the democratic result. You could argue people didn’t know what they were voting for, but how many times have you ever read every party’s manifesto in detail before voting in a general election? (I did once, never again!:lol:).
I predict the results of the European election will be a massive win for Farage and his Brexit party. Not because the electorate wants a no deal Brexit but because they’re just sick to the back teeth of it all. And any new Conservative leader is in cloud cuckoo land if they think they are going to get a better deal from the EU. I really do hope it isn’t Boris, who’s a buffoon IMHO, but who else? And if a general election follows soon i’m not sure I would vote for any of the clowns.
Marco’s right - “viva la revolution”
I think it will be Boris. Don't kid yourself he is a buffoon though. All an act. My cousin knows him. I don't think she has much in common with him politically but she says he's as sharp as a tack.
I feel sorry for Teresa to be honest... :sofa: it was always going to be a shit job, and with most of the muppets in her party and labour fannying around (at best) she was never going to succeed but she gave it a good go.
A) no-one put a gun to her head and made her become PM, and B) no-one put a gun to her head and made her throw away her majority in a stupid general election that no-one apart from herself and some crazed advisers actually wanted. Had she stuck with the majority Cameron won in 2016, she wouldn't have needed the support of the DUP muppets.
walpurgis
24-05-2019, 18:47
I really do hope it isn’t Boris, who’s a buffoon IMHO, but who else? And if a general election follows soon i’m not sure I would vote for any of the clowns.
How about Grant Shapps? An even bigger clown than Johnson and that takes some doing. He'd sink the whole party in no time!
Pity Ann Widdecome left the Tories and joined the Brexit Party, as for me the old boot talks a lot of sense. She'd have been the perfect leader, as she's confident, strong-minded and has great leadership qualities/conviction in her opinions, plus sound old-fashioned values, and for me would've made a great PM - even though I'm far from a Tory.
The only thing that held her back from becoming PM in her day was that she was Catholic.... And in Britain, there's about as much chance of a Catholic becoming PM, as there is Queen!
Marco.
How about Grant Shapps? An even bigger clown than Johnson and that takes some doing. He'd sink the whole party in no time!
Vote Boris, then!:more::more:
Marco.
A) no-one put a gun to her head and made her become PM, and B) no-one put a gun to her head and made her throw away her majority in a stupid general election that no-one apart from herself and some crazed advisers actually wanted. Had she stuck with the majority Cameron won in 2016, she wouldn't have needed the support of the DUP muppets.
I already said that. Except for the bit about the muppets.
She got to be PM and in a while she'll get kicked upstairs as Baroness whatever. Worse things happen at sea.
I already said that. Except for the bit about the muppets.
Great minds thinking alike, or fools seldom differing?
How about Grant Shapps? An even bigger clown than Johnson and that takes some doing. He'd sink the whole party in no time!
Luckily he's 200/1!
https://m.skybet.com/politics/conservative-specials/event/19504214
Boris clear favourite. Think I'd take him over Gove or Hunt. To be fair, the Conservatives could make Bungle from Rainbow their leader and I still wouldn't vote for Corbyn...
And yes, the vanity election of 2016 was probably May's undoing.
She's not leaving much of a legacy. Her whole time totally was overshadowed by Brexit and she accomplished nothing except to lose her majority. Compared to Thatcher that's just a blip in history. She'll be the obscure answer to a question on University Challenge in 2092. Or maybe on Eggheads. That's probably rankling with her a bit I suspect.
Luckily he's 200/1!
https://m.skybet.com/politics/conservative-specials/event/19504214
Boris clear favourite. Think I'd take him over Gove or Hunt. To be fair, the Conservatives could make Bungle from Rainbow their leader and I still wouldn't vote for Corbyn...
I wouldn't vote for any of the self-serving, waste-of-space fuckers. There's only one girl for me, but unfortunately I no longer live in Scotland:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/z8Mw0V.jpg
So during general elections, my 'protest' vote goes to her compatriot Leanne Wood.
Marco.
And she was good in The Krankies too.
https://i.imgur.com/CEQfMrz.jpg
Patrick Dixon
24-05-2019, 19:21
I don't know. I'm more inclined to think that what we are seeing is simply the world's oldest and most successful system of government in action. It just happens to look like it's a shambles.
LOL
The only thing that held her back from becoming PM in her day was that she was Catholic.... And in Britain, there's about as much chance of a Catholic becoming PM, as there is Queen!
She wasn't a Catholic ... she only became a Catholic because she wouldn't accept women priests! That's just how 21C she is ...
Patrick Dixon
24-05-2019, 19:23
To be fair, the Conservatives could make Bungle from Rainbow their leader and I still wouldn't vote for Corbyn...
You actually could vote for neither of them.
walpurgis
24-05-2019, 19:23
Boris clear favourite. Think I'd take him over Gove or Hunt.
Every time I see Gove, I think of Heinrich Himmler. :eek:
Ali Tait
24-05-2019, 19:25
One Westmonster scumbag, Tory or otherwise, is as bad as another, mate. Don't worry, come 'Independence Day', you'll be able to smile again!;)
Marco.
Amen brother!
She wasn't a Catholic ... she only became a Catholic because she wouldn't accept women priests! That's just how 21C she is ...
Well maybe she would've made PM if she'd remained as a non-Catholic. The fact is, as soon as she became Catholic, despite her undoubted leadership qualities, you or I would've had more chance of the PM's job!
Marco.
Amen brother!
:yay::yay::thumbsup:
Marco.
And she was good in The Krankies too.
https://i.imgur.com/CEQfMrz.jpg
Yes, the resemblance is uncanny.
Marco.
ianlenco
24-05-2019, 19:38
And she was good in The Krankies too.
https://i.imgur.com/CEQfMrz.jpg
Better as Rab C Nesbitt's wife
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cKV4GM_eS3U/T3150K_5kbI/AAAAAAAAACc/9qmCs_sp1DM/s320/20.jpg
Well maybe she would've made PM if she'd remained as a non-Catholic. The fact is, as soon as she became Catholic, despite her undoubted leadership qualities, you or I would've had more chance of the PM's job!
Marco.
Ann Widdecombe as PM? You're having a laugh, surely. She was always a bit of a joke figure and her religious affiliations would have made no difference.
Every time I see Gove, I think of Heinrich Himmler. :eek:
I think of Donald Pleasance playing Heinrich Himmler.
In 'The Eagle Has Landed.'
There is no legal bar to catholics being pm
There is no legal bar to catholics being pm
There is if there nominated by Marco !
Ann Widdecombe as PM? You're having a laugh, surely. She was always a bit of a joke figure and her religious affiliations would have made no difference.
Well, I never saw her as a joke figure - quite the opposite. Have you ever sat and listened to her talk no-nonsense politics, or about anything else she's passionate about, in terms of 'righting the world's wrongs'?
When she does, I find myself overwhelmingly nodding in agreement! I like plain-talkers, and folk who don't shilly-shally around, with good old-fashioned values. John Prescott was another of that ilk, even though I'm not a Labour man.
There's a great old Scots word, which sums up what Widdecombe would do to most of the weak-willed muppets around today, posing as politicians, which right now is *exactly* what the Tories need: tober.
As in: 'I'll tober you, boy!' Grant (and Ali) will get it;) She certainly wouldn't have FANNIED AROUND, trying to deliver Brexit, like May did!
Marco.
There is no legal bar to catholics being pm
Who says anything about legal? It's one of those unspoken 'unofficial rules', applicable in what is undeniably a Protestant country!;)
Marco.
There is no legal bar to catholics being pm
Tony Blair waited until he had left office before he converted though. Let's put it this way, it doesn't help your chances.
By the constituency parties more so than the public.
Sun readers for instance don't care who is pm as long as she's got big tits
Tony Blair waited until he had left office before he converted though. Let's put it this way, it doesn't help your chances.
Exactly!
Marco.
By the constituency parties more so than the public.
Sun readers for instance don't care who is pm as long as she's got big tits
Oh God, we'll definitely get Boris then!
Oh God, we'll definitely get Boris then!Well he is a big tit
I hate those floppy-haired "Etonian types', like him [Cameron was another], who are completely and utterly out of touch with the real world/common man, as indeed are most politicians, but particularly arseholes like them.
Wasn't BJ (a rather apt set of initials) once famously quoted as saying something along the lines of: 'Every pound spent on Scotland is a pound less spent on London', or some such? It might've been during the Scottish referendum, but that neatly reflects the mentality of these c*nts.
All they care about is London and the south. The rest of the country could rot, as far as they're concerned, so why the fuck would we [northerners] ever vote for them??
Marco.
Just found the exact quote, of his, which was: "A pound spent in Croydon is far more of value to the country than a pound spent in Strathclyde."
Seen on this YT clip:
https://youtu.be/CjFboRwGiqc
FUCK YOU, YA SNOBBY, ANTI-SCOTTISH, IN-BRED, LONDON-CENTRIC WANKER!
There you go, you can see how I feel about him, and why I'm so staunchly pro-Scottish independence, because cockheads like that is what Westmonster is full of!!!...;)
Marco.
Like it or not its in London where most of the wealth in the country is created.
mightymonoped
24-05-2019, 21:32
I hate those floppy-haired "Etonian types', like him [Cameron was another], who are completely and utterly out of touch with the real world/common man, as indeed are most politicians, but particularly arseholes like him.
Wasn't BJ (a rather apt set of initials) once famously quoted as saying something along the lines of: 'Every pound spent on Scotland is a pound less spent on London', or some such? It might've been during the Scottish referendum, but that neatly reflects the mentality of these c*nts.
All they care about is London and the south. The rest of the country could rot, as far as they're concerned, so why the fuck would we [northerners] ever vote for them??
Marco.
He’s no friend to Liverpool either.
Anyone buying the floppy-haired buffoon act is oblivious to the fact that he’s a devious, nasty piece of work.
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Indeed, mate. I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire, never mind vote for the wanker, and neither would anyone with any sense, who purports to be grounded in the values of the real world.
Were you from Liverpool originally, Tony?
Marco.
mightymonoped
24-05-2019, 21:42
Indeed, mate. I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire, never mind vote for the wanker, and neither would anyone with any sense, who purports to be grounded in the values of the real world.
Were you from Liverpool originally, Tony?
Marco.
Yes, born at home in Blackstock Gardens (now levelled) in 1962.
Moved to the Wirral when I was a toddler.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/97d7af5236b061a75d2395802a574f91.jpg
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Like it or not its in London where most of the wealth in the country is created.
So, Brian, does that mean it's the only place that matters, and the rest of the UK can be treated as second-class citizens? Where's the fairness or equality in that?
There's also plenty of wealth created by North Sea oil, which is why so many Scots want independence, and to divorce themselves from being controlled by London-centric governments, and their London-centric policies;)
Marco.
mightymonoped
24-05-2019, 21:48
Like it or not its in London where most of the wealth in the country is created.
That’s exactly how London likes it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, born at home in Blackstock Gardens (now levelled) in 1962.
Moved to the Wirral when I was a toddler.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/97d7af5236b061a75d2395802a574f91.jpg
Nice one, Tony. I always knew you had a bit of class. Scousers and Glaswegians union, eh mate?;)
Just need the Geordies to join us!:D
Marco.
mightymonoped
24-05-2019, 21:53
Nice one, Tony. I always knew you had a bit of class. Scousers and Glaswegians union, eh mate?;)
Just need the Geordies to join us!:D
Marco.
[emoji4][emoji106]
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So, Brian, does that mean it's the only place that matters, and the rest of the UK can be treated as second-class citizens? Where's the fairness in that?
There's also plenty of wealth created by North Sea oil, which is why so many Scots want independence, and to divorce themselves from being controlled by London-centric governments, and their London-centric policies;)
Marco.. The fairness occurs in the fact that London subsidises both Scotland and Wales so there not being treated like second class citizens it would seem :)
. The fairness occurs in the fact that London subsidises both Scotland and Wales so there not being treated like second class citizens it would seem :)
The fact is, if Scotland was able to (rightfully) keep all the money it generated from North Sea oil, and other significant streams of home-grown revenue, most of the profits from which currently go to London, it wouldn't need 'subsidised'!;)
In any case, that doesn't detract from the fact that BJ has shown nothing but complete contempt for Scotland (and the north of the UK), so why would anyone in their right mind from that area vote for him? I'd only ever vote for someone whom I felt that I had something in common with, and who was down to earth and lived in the real world, hence why 'wee Jimmy Krankie' does for me...
Blow-Job boy doesn't even begin to tick any of those boxes.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/3969/gBLWEt.gif
Marco.
Come on Marco on balance Scotland and Wales must be on the right side of the coin and I m sure know where there breads buttered !. As regards Boris well Macca thinks he s as sharp as a tack and
thinking of his utterances on here in the past that boy seems to know his onions ;)
Mmm... I think it's probably best if on this we just agree to disagree;)
It'll make hee-haw difference to me anyway, who the new leader of the Tories is, as I don't vote for them. I'll just merrily continue living on my own self-created 'little island', largely divorced from the effects of the decisions made by any of these wankers:eyebrows:
Marco.
chris@panteg
25-05-2019, 06:04
Cameron is to blame for this mess and it's divisive consequences, the break up of a once great union.
I find it difficult to feel any sympathy for May, even in her last speech, it was all about her.
And now we'll get Boris, I think he'll call a GE on the premise that either the EU renegotiate or we leave without a deal.
Pigmy Pony
25-05-2019, 06:35
Oh my God, considering that we are all supposed to be sick of B, B, Br, (I can't even bring myself to say it), 8 (eight!) pages of posts in less than 24 hours says something else! I have no interest in this, but I will look in from time to time just to see if the scrapping has started yet. I'll give it two days :)
Firebottle
25-05-2019, 06:40
As regards Boris well Macca thinks he s as sharp as a tack .....
Ah but a tack facing which way?
Ah but a tack facing which way?
Has a critically acclaimed book on Churchill which hardly makes him thick. Not something the keyboard warrior s on this or any other forum could do :)
Come on Marco on balance Scotland and Wales must be on the right side of the coin and I m sure know where there breads buttered !. As regards Boris well Macca thinks he s as sharp as a tack and
thinking of his utterances on here in the past that boy seems to know his onions ;)
I said that's what my cousin thinks and she knows him personally. And she's pretty smart. I've never met the bloke.
On a wider note far too much time and energy wasted arguing about about where the money should be spent instead of working out how to make more of it. Cart before the horse. A rising tide raises all ships.
Born in N York, of wealthy parents, is ancestrally Germanic, has been accused of elitism, cronyism, dishonesty, laziness, and using racist and homophobic language, and was sacked from The Times for falsifying a quotation..
Sounds just the job eh:doh:
What 'ancestry' would you prefer a PM to have? And how would it make a blind bit of difference?
I don't really understand the obsession with personalities in politics. They all get faced with the same tough decisions when they take office and their options for action are severely limited by the wider situation. That's why regardless of which party is in or who is PM things carry on much the same. Boris, May, Corbyn, wee Jimmy Krankie, doesn't matter. They can all only tinker around the edges.
Has a critically acclaimed book on Churchill which hardly makes him thick. Not something the keyboard warrior s on this or any other forum could do :)
How do you know that, Brian? I'd suggest you're being somewhat presumptuous, as indeed is the case by labelling people with different views from you on 'BJ', as "keyboard warriors".
At the end of the day, you vote for political parties and politicians whose policies most closely align with your own views, and if implemented, may in some way benefit your own life or situation, while conversely opposing those who don't, and which most certainly includes those who've clearly shown nothing but contempt for your country and its people.
So don't expect any of us to become a fanboy of chinless wonders, like Boris the Ballsack anytime soon!;)
Marco.
What 'ancestry' would you prefer a PM to have? And how would it make a blind bit of difference?
It's not necessarily about that, but having someone on your level that you like, respect, and can relate to. Not that it'll ever happen, but that's why I'd have no problem whatsoever with someone such as Ann Widdecombe or 'Jimmy Krankie' becoming PM, because I believe that they are fundamentally good people, and in politics for the *right* reasons, not just self-serving ones.
So how can you possibly vote for someone that you fundamentally disrespect and strongly dislike? It completely goes against the grain, so that's why 'personalities' matter. Therefore, whether in the long run it makes a blind bit of difference or not, ultimately you're doing what you feel comfortable with.
And if there's another referendum, and Scottish Independence becomes a reality, with 'wee Jimmy' at the helm, I can assure you that *that* will certainly make a difference to the lives of the people in Scotland, by once and for all freeing them from unfair and unjust Westmonster rule!
Marco.
Well, I never saw her as a joke figure - quite the opposite. Have you ever sat and listened to her talk no-nonsense politics, or about anything else she's passionate about, in terms of 'righting the world's wrongs'? .
As someone once said 'For every complex problem, there's an answer that's simple, straightforward, and wrong'. It've very easy to pontificate in a TV studio about 'what needs to be done', but most political problems are inherently complicated, and require a more measured approach than Widdecombe's blunderbuss. Whenever I've read her opinions about anything I've disagreed with them. There's no merit in being 'passionate' if you're on the wrong side of the debate.
Come on Marco on balance Scotland and Wales must be on the right side of the coin and I m sure know where there breads buttered !. As regards Boris well Macca thinks he s as sharp as a tack and
thinking of his utterances on here in the past that boy seems to know his onions ;)
Boris is a proven serial liar, both in his personal life and as a politician. The Telegraph had to print an apology for one of his columns which contained a blatant untruth, saying in effect that you couldn't expect truth from Boris. I think he pretends to be a buffoon, but is actually not all that bright underneath that oafish persona. Gove managed to skewer him in the last Tory leadership contest, and Gove is hardly the sharpest knife in the box.
However, if he goes forward as one of the two candidates selected by Tory MPs, he's bound to become Tory leader and PM. We'll see then if he's any better at squaring the Brexit circle than May was.
As someone once said 'For every complex problem, there's an answer that's simple, straightforward, and wrong'. It've very easy to pontificate in a TV studio about 'what needs to be done', but most political problems are inherently complicated, and require a more measured approach.
Doesn't matter how much you say it, people will still believe that some wunderkind will come along to lead them to the promised land. There's no point in these discussions, they never get beyond the 6th form common room level.
Has a critically acclaimed book on Churchill which hardly makes him thick. Not something the keyboard warrior s on this or any other forum could do :)
David Cameron was our most highly qualified PM since Harold Wilson. Didn't stop him making some very stupid decisions, one of which was to trust Boris Johnson.
As someone once said 'For every complex problem, there's an answer that's simple, straightforward, and wrong'. It've very easy to pontificate in a TV studio about 'what needs to be done', but most political problems are inherently complicated, and require a more measured approach than Widdecombe's blunderbuss. Whenever I've read her opinions about anything I've disagreed with them. There's no merit in being 'passionate' if you're on the wrong side of the debate.
Well, that's fine, but it's only your opinion, and one I'd vehemently disagree with.
Almost every PM in existence has beforehand 'pontificated in a TV studio about what needs to be done', and once in office, such as the current lot, most have made a pig's ear of 'doing what needs to be done', so why change the habits of a lifetime?
I'd contend therefore, that there's no evidence that suggests Widdecombe would make any more of an arse of it than anyone else has so far!;)
Marco.
Those with wealth or power will do what’s in their best interest to protect that wealth or power, even if it’s in no one else’s interest at all. So what chance does the little man have when he/she lives from payday to payday? SFA
Those with wealth or power will do what’s in their best interest to protect that wealth or power, even if it’s in no one else’s interest at all.
Exactly! And which is why I abhor people such as BJ and Cameron, and others of their chinless ilk, because ultimately *that* is all they're interested in! It's all about what's best for 'the establishment' and lining their own pockets.
So unless anyone here confesses to being a multi-millionaire, titled, or a member of the upper-classes, we're all "little men' - and therefore putting these odious creatures into positions of power is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas!:doh:
The fact is, we ['the northerners'] care not a jot about London, as much as BJ cares not a jot about Glasgow, or Liverpool, or Newcastle, etc.....and there exists as big a north/south divide now, as there ever was, which is why the notion of a 'union' between all the countries in the UK ['stronger together' slogans and all that pish] is a joke, as in reality there is no such 'union' because ultimately everyone is out for themselves!!
Marco.
If it is Boris how long before he trips over Larry the cat :lol:
The Black Adder
25-05-2019, 10:35
I've just seen on twitter that Downing Street have just put an order in for some soft toys and some duplo brexit building blocks...
Looks like Boris is the next PM then.
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If it is Boris how long before he trips over Larry the cat :lol:
Larry is a class act.
https://i.imgur.com/aGQAsVT.jpg
Larry for PM!:more::more:
Marco.
The Black Adder
25-05-2019, 11:13
Lol... Boris can change the litter tray.
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its interesting also that the pro leavers are adament on not going to the country, saying they did that. but that was a long time ago. Govts go to the country all the time to get its backing; so why not this time;?? what are they afraid of?
Lol... Boris can change the litter tray.
Aye, it's about all he's good for!:D
Marco.
its interesting also that the pro leavers are adament on not going to the country, saying they did that. but that was a long time ago. Govts go to the country all the time to get its backing; so why not this time;?? what are they afraid of?
The EU insisting on national governments holding repeated referendums until they get the answer they want is one of the reasons we voted out.
When we voted to go in back in the 1970s I don't recall them having another vote 2 years on to see if anyone had changed their minds.
When we voted to go in back in the 1970s I don't recall them having another vote 2 years on to see if anyone had changed their minds.
We didn't vote to 'go in'; we were already 'in'.
walpurgis
25-05-2019, 12:44
http://i64.tinypic.com/8xraz4.gif
The EU insisting on national governments holding repeated referendums until they get the answer they want is one of the reasons we voted out.
When we voted to go in back in the 1970s I don't recall them having another vote 2 years on to see if anyone had changed their minds.
well it was kinda like that. we joined without the peoples referendum but had one 2 years later to see if we wanted to stay. a large majority did.
The level of for in the last one was only a couple of % so not exactly a big yes; also the public were lied to on all sides.... Now more truth be available it would make sense to do it. The money men and right wing of course dont want that as they ar fairly sure the people will say no. thats my opinion tho...
also the public were lied to on all sides.... .
I keep seeing this stated as though it was a fact but what lies were actually told by either side? There were various scenarios outlined but since even the stupidest person knows that no-one can predict the future with 100% accuracy everyone knew these were projections, speculation and guesswork, not facts. And is anyone now better educated on what leaving means? Since we have not yet left there is still nothing tangible to go on. As to the actual mechanics of leaving, the customs union etc, anyone interested already knew what the issues were going to be there and anyone who wasn't interested then still won't be now.
Here are just a few...
One of the dog-whistle scares sold to readers of the Daily Mail, Sun and Express during the runup to the Referendum was the extraordinary cost of so-called health tourism – people travelling to the UK solely to benefit from our generous health system. In the case of EU citizens, this is a total fabrication. The truth is that British citizens in the EU receive five times the value of the treatment we give to EU citizens here.
The idea that countries within the EU have no control of immigration is a lie. We do, but we choose not to exercise it. Tony Blair removed the border exit checks you see in almost every other European country in 1998. That meant we had no way of knowing who was still in the UK and who had left. Under existing rules, EU member states can send EU nationals home after three months if they haven’t found a job or cannot support themselves. We could enforce that, keeping only those actively contributing to our economy. Theresa May, as home secretary, chose not to.
When Boris the great charlatan first flipped to the Leave side: “There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market” – Boris Johnson, the Telegraph, 26 June 2016.
Lord Digby Jones. “Not a single job would be lost because of Brexit,” the ex-CBI boss and former lawyer told us before the referendum. Two years later, he was standing by it, falling back on the semantic difference between “Brexit” and “uncertainty around Brexit”. Either way, thousands of jobs have already been repatriated to the continent and government impact assessments forecast a 9.3 per cent hit to the economy under No Deal.
NHS. “Once we have settled our accounts, we will take back control of roughly £350 million per week. It would be a fine thing, as many of us have pointed out, if a lot of that money went on the NHS.” So wrote Boris Johnson in the Daily Telegraph. Then they plastered it in massive letters across a bus and drove it across the country. The rest is history.
Vote Leave statement two weeks before the Referendum: “After we vote Leave, we would immediately be able to start negotiating new trade deals with emerging economies and the world’s biggest economies (the US, China and Japan, as well as Canada, Australia, South Korea, New Zealand and so on), which could enter into force immediately after the UK leaves the EU.” Japan recently concluded one of the world’s biggest trade agreements with... the EU. As for us, we’re still waiting.
Queues. Not for food, yet, but for lorries. Hapless transport secretary Chris Grayling told Question Time in March last year: ”We will maintain a free flowing border at Dover. We will not impose checks in the port. The only reason we would have queues at the border is if we put in place restrictions that created those queues. We are not going to do that.” It’s a lie. The FT reported that lorry checks under a No Deal taking as little as 80 seconds would result in an “unrecoverable” backlog of lorries and the government itself is planning to turn the M20 into a lorry park.
Take Back Control. The greatest lie of them all? Quite possibly. The hypnotic mantra was perfect for its audience: millions who – quite rightly – felt disenfranchised and anxious for their future. But lack of control over the EU wasn’t the issue; it was lack of control over a Westminster programme of austerity set by George Osborne.
Vote Leave. Otherwise known as Lie Central, the official campaign body for exiting the EU delivered a wonderful array of deceit, including the following:
“The EU’s supporters say, ‘We must have access to the single market’. Britain will have access to the single market after we vote Leave.”
“The idea that our trade will suffer... is silly.”
“Let’s give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week.”
“Taxpayers’ money should be spent on filling in potholes in Britain, rather than being squandered on foreign bridges.”
“If you are still wondering what it will look like if we came out, think about this... Lower taxes as a result of no longer having to pay into the EU budget.”
It really is an endless and unmitigated litany of rubbish.
Will Of The People. It’s not now, and it’s debatable if it ever was. Latest polling suggests 45 per cent of people now want to Remain, versus 35 per cent who want to Leave and 22 per cent undecided. Even in the referendum itself, only 37 per cent of the electorate voted for Leave, the rest either voted Remain or not at all. Some Will Of The People.
In 2014, Nigel Farage laid it out on the line: “If you said to me, would I like to see over the next ten years a further five million people come into Britain and if that happened we’d all be slightly richer, I’d say I’d rather we weren’t slightly richer.” In March 2017: “If Brexit is a disaster, I will go and live abroad. I'll go and live somewhere else.” Such principles!
Youth Vote. More than 70 per cent of 18-24 year olds (the generation who will live with Brexit longer than any other) voted to Remain. By the time 29 March comes and we leave the EU, around 1.4m more young people will be of voting age. The idea that Brexit is the will of these people is a dangerous lie.
Aside from your first two points the rest are either just speculation or opinion. Which was the point I was making. Both sides got to do that. Then we had a vote. No new relevant information has come to light since that happened. Give it 20 years outside the EU then ask people to vote again, once there is some track record to go on. Making people vote again for the sole reason that they didn't vote how you wanted them to the first time is something that happens in banana republics. And the EU. Not here.
ianlenco
25-05-2019, 14:12
An excellent summary of the situation Grant. I'd add another reason for the referendum vote. A lot of folk couldn't stand the snooty, smug utterings of Osborne and Cameron and preferred to vote against them. I've never understood why so many regions, Cornwall, Wales and the North voted leave when they have been some of the biggest recipients of EU money. As for the turkeys in Sunderland voting for Christmas where the biggest employer is Nissan, it beggars belief.
no more than I expected from a right wing brexiteer like yourself Martin.
walpurgis
25-05-2019, 14:14
You been saving that lot up Grant? :)
no more than I expected from a right wing brexiteer like yourself Martin.
I'm in favour of Brexit, yes. The vote went the right way it doesn't concern me why people voted how they did. I'm not 'right wing.' I have no interest in childish political ideologies of any type.
Making people vote again for the sole reason that they didn't vote how you wanted them to the first time is something that happens in banana republics. And the EU. Not here.
Well, I guess it serves a useful purpose, in terms of providing folk with an opportunity to reassess matters, after all the corruption, vote rigging, lies and broken promises have been revealed, and change their vote accordingly next time, to reflect that.
So there's another reason:)
Marco.
Well, I guess it serves a useful purpose, in terms of providing folk with an opportunity to reassess matters, after all the corruption, vote rigging, lies and broken promises have been revealed, and change their vote accordingly next time, to reflect that.
So there's another reason:)
Marco.
I refer you to post 83
Lawrence001
25-05-2019, 17:16
In 2014, Nigel Farage laid it out on the line: “If you said to me, would I like to see over the next ten years a further five million people come into Britain and if that happened we’d all be slightly richer, I’d say I’d rather we weren’t slightly richer.”
Not heard that quote before, pretty much sums up my view of the whole affair.
Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk
I refer you to post 83
Lol - you can keep on repeating that as much as you like, but it neither devalues nor discredits what I wrote, one jot.
Marco.
Ninanina
25-05-2019, 22:32
I'm not going to get into any discussion but I'm just glad she's going... I think it should have happened some time ago though....
Light Dependant Resistor
25-05-2019, 22:43
Is she retiring, or perhaps moving to a job at the European Union ?
walpurgis
25-05-2019, 22:53
Is she retiring, or perhaps moving to a job at the European Union ?
I think Farage has her lined up as an assistant.
Ninanina
25-05-2019, 23:21
I reckon Farage in No.10 would be very interesting..... :sofa:
If nothing else he's at least patriotic and I'm not sure a lot of them are... we live in a great country and I think we need to be reminded of that sometimes...
I'll get me coat... :lol:
WESTLOWER
25-05-2019, 23:25
I reckon Farage in No.10 would be very interesting..... :sofa:
If nothing else he's at least patriotic and I'm not sure a lot of them are... we live in a great country and I think we need to be reminded of that sometimes...
I'll get me coat... :lol:
Oh dear oh dear!!
Ninanina
25-05-2019, 23:31
I knew someone wouldn't like it but as I said I'm not going to get into any discussion so I'll sign off on this one...;)
If nothing else he's at least patriotic
As Dr Johnson said 'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel'.
The fascinating possibility is if Farage fields candidates at the 600 odd constituencies at the next election that would split the vote on the right and could
quite comfortably put Labour in power. Not sure about the logistics of that though for the Brexit party. To add fuel to the fire expect Joker Rees Gob to officially
back Boris shortly. He s been holding events etc for B over the last few month s and seems happy to let him run the flag for the Brexit team ;).
Make of that what you will
As Dr Johnson said 'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel'.
That's right. It's only okay to be patriotic if you are not English. Then it's a virtue to be admired.
I also like Farage, I admire him for what he has achieved so far against all the odds. if anyone has a problem with that, well tough shit.
I knew someone wouldn't like it but as I said I'm not going to get into any discussion so I'll sign off on this one...;)
Bev that was extremely naughty. Good job your popular on here....... or was :lol:
walpurgis
26-05-2019, 07:27
I knew someone wouldn't like it but as I said I'm not going to get into any discussion so I'll sign off on this one...;)
Yes, it seems fashionable to knock patriotism. One does wonder if those who do this may be the opposite........traitors? Perhaps traitors were best dealt with the old fashioned way. At least then we might not have any to worry about.
Talking of treachery, how many of our past (and present) governments have been guilty of treason? Most in one way or another maybe? Acting against the interests of the people seems the popular political way these days.
(That'll get 'em all up in arms! :eek:)
Technically, acting against the will of the people is not treason. For it to be treason you have to act directly against the monarch or support the enemies of the monarch.
Yes, it seems fashionable to knock patriotism. One does wonder if those who do this may be the opposite........traitors? Perhaps traitors were best dealt with the old fashioned way. At least then we might not have any to worry about.
Talking of treachery, how many of our past (and present) governments have been guilty of treason? Most in one way or another maybe? Acting against the interests of the people seems the popular political way these days.
(That'll get 'em all up in arms! :eek:). Well, its not p/c to be patriotic these days of course
walpurgis
26-05-2019, 08:01
. Well, its not p/c to be patriotic these days of course
Political correctness is a crock (or is that alligator? :D)
. Well, its not p/c to be patriotic these days of course
Only if you are English. I'm no fan of jingoistic 'We're better than everyone else' nonsense. But having respect for the history and achievements of your nation is not a bad thing.
WESTLOWER
26-05-2019, 08:56
That's right. It's only okay to be patriotic if you are not English. Then it's a virtue to be admired.
I also like Farage, I admire him for what he has achieved so far against all the odds. if anyone has a problem with that, well tough shit.
Farage is a total no mark. Being patriotic has nothing to do with it. IMO he is limp wanked cock of a career politician. A horrid fucker
Indeed, and he's also a closet racist/BNP supporter, so no way do we want *that* as a PM (sorry, Bev)...
Marco.
If he's a BNP supporter why is he not in the BNP? Just because you say these things does not make them true.
Simply making things up about people whose views you do not agree with is not political debate. I find it quite disturbing.
Only if you are English. I'm no fan of jingoistic 'We're better than everyone else' nonsense. But having respect for the history and achievements of your nation is not a bad thing.
I agree with the latter, which I suspect sums up every proud English person here, and rightly so!
However, unfortunately the bad apples among your nation, especially some travelling abroad representing your country [and also racist groups and thugs/football hooligans who've tainted the meaning of your flag, including, for that matter, the Union Jack] has lead to a situation where flying the England flag is seen by some as meaning something quite different to, say, flying a Scottish or Welsh flag, which hasn't been misused in that way, and therefore isn't tainted.
As usual in life, as with so many things, the bad applies spoil things for everyone else!:rolleyes:
Marco.
If he's a BNP supporter why is he not in the BNP? Just because you say these things does not make them true.
Simply making things up about people whose views you do not agree with is not political debate. I find it quite disturbing.
I'm not making it up at all. He's sympathises with many of the views of the BNP. A lot of the stuff he says speaks for itself, and if you do some research, you'll see plenty of evidence of behaviour from him that you'd struggle to consider as being anything other than fundamentally racist in nature.
Marco.
I'm not making it up at all. He's sympathises with many of the views of the BNP. A lot of the stuff he says speaks for itself, and if you do some research, you'll see plenty of evidence of behaviour from him that you'd struggle to consider as being anything other than fundamentally racist in nature.
Marco.
If you have the evidence than present it. Just saying it is so is empty rhetoric and reminiscent of the tactics used in absolute dictatorships to discredit opposition.
I agree with the latter, which I suspect sums up every proud English person here, and rightly so!
However, unfortunately the bad apples among your nation, especially some travelling abroad representing your country [and also racist groups and thugs/football hooligans who've tainted the meaning of your flag, including, for that matter, the Union Jack] has lead to a situation where flying the England flag is seen by some as meaning something quite different to, say, flying a Scottish or Welsh flag, which hasn't been misused in that way, and therefore isn't tainted.
As usual in life, as with so many things, the bad applies spoil things for everyone else!:rolleyes:
Marco.
Best not to mention the overtly racist and violent Italian football supporters then? https://www.thelocal.it/20170509/racism-italian-football-sulley-muntari-racist-chants Every nation has a small minority of such people. Suggesting that it is confined to the English is disingenuous. Britain is the one of the most tolerant and least racist countries in the world. Which is possibly why our hooligans get so much attention. That and the desire to run down England and the English in general.
I agree with the latter, which I suspect sums up every proud English person here, and rightly so!
However, unfortunately the bad apples among your nation, especially some travelling abroad representing your country [and also racist groups and thugs/football hooligans who've tainted the meaning of your flag, including, for that matter, the Union Jack] has lead to a situation where flying the England flag is seen by some as meaning something quite different to, say, flying a Scottish or Welsh flag, which hasn't been misused in that way, and therefore isn't tainted.
As usual in life, as with so many things, the bad applies spoil things for everyone else!:rolleyes:
Marco.. Are you sure the welsh, Scots flags never been misused in a bad way Marco ..... Really ? :)
walpurgis
26-05-2019, 09:29
Never actually checked the BNP manifesto, I assume they have one. (some) People seem to view them with horror, but perhaps they have something useful to say?
Never actually checked the BNP manifesto, I assume they have one. (some) People seem to view them with horror, but perhaps they have something useful to say?
Manifestos are not worth the paper they are printed on. I know some BNP activists, they are unashamedly racists regardless of what their 'official policy' is.
And I mean racist in the correct meaning of the word, that is they believe in 'White supremacy.' It's nasty stuff.
. Are you sure the welsh, Scots flags never been misused in a bad way Marco ..... Really ? :)
Give me some examples then:)
Definitely not to the same extent as the English one. The NF did most of the damage to the English flag. It's largely the reason why flying that flag is seen by some as meaning something quite different from what it should do.
Marco.
Best not to mention the overtly racist and violent Italian football supporters then? https://www.thelocal.it/20170509/racism-italian-football-sulley-muntari-racist-chants Every nation has a small minority of such people. Suggesting that it is confined to the English is disingenuous. Britain is the one of the most tolerant and least racist countries in the world. Which is possibly why our hooligans get so much attention. That and the desire to run down England and the English in general.
What's Italy got to do with it? I'm talking about the UK. Every country in the world has its thugs and hooligans, so you could cite any one of them in that way. The argument was why the likes of a Welshman or Scotsman can be outwardly patriotic, fly flags etc, yet not come under attack for it in the same way as an Englishman doing the same thing - and sadly there are valid historical reasons for that.
Anyway, that's all I'm going to say now on the matter.
Marco.
Give me some examples then:)
Definitely not to the same extent as the English one. The NF did most of the damage to the English flag. It's largely the reason why flying that flag is seen by some as meaning something quite different from what it should do.
Marco. Ah, youv e modified that good. I stopped going to football in the 80 s largely because of racism and the horrible songs about the Busby Babes etc, so I m in tune with you there.
Always been unpleasant people about and thats still the case.
If you have the evidence than present it. Just saying it is so is empty rhetoric and reminiscent of the tactics used in absolute dictatorships to discredit opposition.
What for you to do as you always do, like you did with Grant, and dismiss it as 'conjecture', or similar, simply because it doesn't suit your argument or belief system? Waste of time. It's my valid and carefully considered opinion, which I'm entitled to express however I see fit. I'm not asking you to agree, nor am I trying to change your mind or discredit you.
So learn to live with it.
Marco.
That's right. It's only okay to be patriotic if you are not English.
Of course not. Think of all the worst people in history (Hitler, Stalin, Mao. Amin, Mugabe); chances are they will at some point have wrapped themselves in the national flag to excuse/explain their excesses. Nationalism tends to be used as a stick with which to beat other nations; 'we're the best, so it's OK for us to do what we condemn other nations for doing'.
What Dr Johnson meant was, not that patriotism was bad, but that it was used by 'scoundrels' to disguise their ulterior motives. The context in unclear, but he used the phrase 'scoundrel' of Edmund Burke, whom Johnson regarded as a 'false patriot':
http://www.samueljohnson.com/qotw02q2.html#0630
A further argument that Johnson felt Burke a manipulative scoundrel comes from Boswell. Burke is a topic of discussion following the "last refuge" remark, and about Burke, Johnson says, "Sir, I do not say that he is not honest; but we have no reason to conclude from his political conduct that he is honest." And on another occasion, Johnson said of him, "In private life he is a very honest gentleman; but I will not allow him to be so in publick life. People may be honest, though they are doing wrong; that is between their Maker and them. But we, who are suffering by their pernicious conduct, are to destroy them. We are sure that [Burke] acts from interest. We know what his genuine principles were. They who allow their passions to confound the distinctions between right and wrong, are criminal. They may be convinced; but they have not come honestly by their conviction."
Ah, youv e modified that good. I stopped going to football in the 80 s largely because of racism and the horrible songs about the Busby Babes etc, so I m in tune with you there.
Always been unpleasant people about and thats still the case.
Yup, absolutely, and no worries:)
Marco.
What for you to do as you always do, like you did with Grant, and dismiss it as 'conjecture', or similar, simply because it doesn't suit your argument or belief system? Waste of time. It's my valid and carefully considered opinion, which I'm entitled to express however I see fit. I'm not asking you to agree, nor am I trying to change your mind or discredit you.
So learn to live with it.
Marco.
Not really a question of 'learning to live' with anything though is it? Most of what Grant posted was opinion, two of the many points he made had factual validity and I acknowledged that. At least his post advanced, or at least added to the debate in some way. Empty rhetoric doesn't. It's of no use to anyone, it's just a meaningless expression of a partisan position.
I'd rather read argument that at least makes me think and consider, even if ultimately I still don't agree with it, rather than unsupported 'So and so's a racist' type of comments. If that's all the discussion is going to be then there's no purpose in having it.
What Dr Johnson meant was, not that patriotism was bad, but that it was used by 'scoundrels' to disguise their ulterior motives. The context in unclear, but he used the phrase 'scoundrel' of Edmund Burke, whom Johnson regarded as a 'false patriot':
I quite agree. It's just that the quote seems to get wheeled out whenever any Englishman expresses an opinion that could be considered to be nationalistic or patriotic. It isn't just reserved for scoundrels with bad intent or for idiots 'wrapping themselves in the flag'. See also 'Little Englander', 'Xenophobe' and 'Racist'. It's so over the top it's ridiculous.
Hardly surprising that positions become so polarised and consensus or even compromise proves impossible when such extreme language is used so thoughtlessly.
Not really a question of 'learning to live' with anything though is it? Most of what Grant posted was opinion, two of the many points he made had factual validity and I acknowledged that. At least his post advanced, or at least added to the debate in some way. Empty rhetoric doesn't. It's of no use to anyone, it's just a meaningless expression of a partisan position.
I'd rather read argument that at least makes me think and consider, even if ultimately I still don't agree with it, rather than unsupported 'So and so's a racist' type of comments. If that's all the discussion is going to be then there's no purpose in having it.
Yes, there is; it's called free speech!
And it's not "empty rhetoric". I'm simply expressing a (carefully considered) opinion, as indeed I do here on any other subject I'm interested in, hi-fi, music, football, food or whatever, and which doesn't need 'verified' or conducted to your satisfaction, in order to be valid.
I'm also preempting a circular argument, because I know that no matter what 'evidence' I present to confirm my views on Farage, none of it will be good enough for you, so let's leave it there and just agree to disagree.
Marco.
Ninanina
26-05-2019, 12:47
To be honest I never said that I supported Farage but at least he seems to quite like the UK and so do I and I can’t see anything wrong with liking where you live
That really is my last post on this thread though
I quite agree. It's just that the quote seems to get wheeled out whenever any Englishman expresses an opinion that could be considered to be nationalistic or patriotic. It isn't just reserved for scoundrels with bad intent or for idiots 'wrapping themselves in the flag'. See also 'Little Englander', 'Xenophobe' and 'Racist'. It's so over the top it's ridiculous.
Absolutely, so the key thing then, as an Englishman, is not to behave in a way that gives rise to such stereotypes.
The fact is, the overwhelming majority don't, including the English people I know (indeed 90% of my friends are English), but unfortunately too many do, and are extremely arrogant and vociferous about it [portraying an inflated and unjustified nationalistic/xenophobic sense of superiority], which is why decent English people are sometimes unfairly tarred with the same brush.
Also, by and large, the Scots, Welsh or Irish don't take themselves so seriously, and indeed are often portrayed as joke figures or the underdog in films and TV programmes, which is why a patriotic flag-waving Scotsman or Welshman isn't necessarily viewed in the same way as that of an Englishman.
Me? I've always judged folk as I find them, based on *their* actions, and couldn't give a hoot where they were born or what their ancestry is, and that's exactly as it should be.
Marco.
As something of a cross-breed, I regard all flag-waving as equally ridiculous, whether the flag in question is the Cross of St George, the Saltire, the Irish tricolour, or the Welsh dragon. Or, for that matter, the Union Jack/Flag. Nationalism has been the curse of the modern era following the disintegration of three empires in the aftermath of WWI.
As something of a cross-breed, I regard all flag-waving as equally ridiculous, whether the flag in question is the Cross of St George, the Saltire, the Irish tricolour, or the Welsh dragon. Or, for that matter, the Union Jack/Flag. Nationalism has been the curse of the modern era following the disintegration of three empires in the aftermath of WWI.
Kinda works at the proms though
Kinda works at the proms though
Really? It's good for a laugh, I suppose.
Really? It's good for a laugh, I suppose.
I m sure a large proportion of the country enjoy it, not just whities
I m sure a large proportion of the country enjoy it, not just whities
I'd guess that the audience for the Last Night of the Poms [sic] is 99% white middle-class. I can't watch it meself, being common as muck.
As something of a cross-breed, I regard all flag-waving as equally ridiculous, whether the flag in question is the Cross of St George, the Saltire, the Irish tricolour, or the Welsh dragon. Or, for that matter, the Union Jack/Flag. Nationalism has been the curse of the modern era following the disintegration of three empires in the aftermath of WWI.
I vehemently AGREE! :clap:
As I've said before, I don't wave any flags or shout from the rooftops about any aspect of my nationality or ethnicity/ancestry, as I'm simply not wired that way.
I also believe that doing so, overall does more harm than good. For me, it's rather small-minded behaviour, evidence of insular thinking, and largely doesn't reflect well on any individual guilty of such, and importantly who gets too carried away and allows patriotism to get the better of them and turn into something more sinister.
So, I'll continue to be be, first and foremost, fiercely proud of my Italian ethnicity and ancestry, and of my Scottish nationality, but will show it in the right way, and which doesn't involve any gratuitous, or potentially inflammatory, 'patriotic' flag-waving in public.
Marco.
Yeah, Yeah thats good Marco. Still don't think there s anything sinister about proms though. No ones more common than me Joe. Old style cockney is me :)
Lol... My comment has nothing to do with the Proms though, which I have no opinion on one way or the other, except for enjoying it as a superb live spectacle of classical music.
Incidentally, I have a lot of time for old-style, genuine cockneys, like yourself, as they tend to be 'salt of the earth' types, much in the same way as are the good people of Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow and such like.
The 'southerners' I tend to dislike, are the snooty bastards, who think that they're somehow 'special', from the home counties, etc, and who look down their noses at folks from 'up north', whom they consider as their 'lessers', and the 'suits' who populate London, who think the same. You'll know who I mean, and Westmonster is full of them!
Now before someone from those areas comes and shoots me down, of course there will be exceptions to the rule, and perfectly nice, genuine people living there also, which I accept. They may even represent the majority, but as was being discussed earlier about patriotism, it is often the most vociferous and influential minority, who skew the overall opinion of the majority.
However, too many types I've met of that description over the years, have come from said area of the UK, for it simply to be a coincidence, which is why I despise how Tory governments, in particular, pander to their whims, and treat everyone else in the UK as second-class citizens.
To divorce themselves from that controlling and utterly unfair/unjust rulership, and 100% be able to make their own decisions, as to what's best for SCOTLAND and the Scottish people, not London and the south, and be in control of their OWN destiny, is primarily why many Scots want independence. And it will happen.
Such a hugely arrogant and ignorant, elitist mentality, as outlined, *enrages* me like you wouldn't believe... And which is why I look forward to the coming of the 'people's revolution'. Because, by fuck, that's what this country needs, and the bringing down, once and for all, of deeply-ingrained establishment elitism!
Marco.
Yeah, Yeah thats good Marco. Still don't think there s anything sinister about proms though. No ones more common than me Joe. Old style cockney is me :)
Nonsense. A tenement block just off Scotland Road in Liverpool is far commoner than any street in London.
LThe 'southerners' I tend to dislike, are the snooty bastards, who think that they're somehow 'special', from the home counties, and such like, and who look down their noses at folks from 'up north', whom they consider as 'lessors'
Are you not a 'lessor' yourself?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lessor_(leasing)
:lolsign:
Ha - too much vino (again) for lunch! Now amended.
Marco.
mightymonoped
26-05-2019, 17:11
Nonsense. A tenement block just off Scotland Road in Liverpool is far commoner than any street in London.
I bailed out of this a while ago! [emoji23]
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Nonsense. A tenement block just off Scotland Road in Liverpool is far commoner than any street in London.
Well a Labour spokesman said this morning that there s 14 million people currently living in poverty..... Really ?. But if there s is ( there s not ) some of those must surely
be in London. Were not all living in millionaire s houses, plenty of people living in shoe boxes with modest incomes and many on benefits as well
walpurgis
26-05-2019, 17:51
Well a Labour spokesman said this morning that there s 14 million people currently living in poverty
Who said that?
Lawrence001
26-05-2019, 18:02
Who said that?The problem with poverty measures these days is that the left have normalised the use of relative poverty. So while most of the worst off have roofs over their heads, plenty to eat (safe to assume since obesity is rife amongst the unemployed) their children have games consoles (which I could only have dreamt of in my youth despite both parents working) etc, they are still classed as living in poverty as their incomes are low compared to the best off. Basically in a capitalist economy you are guaranteed to have high poverty levels without near communist levels of taxation and redistribution. This is obviously great news to those on the left of centre as it justifies their pet policies, and any questioning of the measure is seized upon as being evidence of a dangerous extreme capitalist. Rather like other definitions of racism, sexism etc where they have also shut down sensible debate.
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Who said that?
Shami Chakrabarti ( shadow attorney general ). Think she 14, it was many millions anyway !
The problem with poverty measures these days is that the left have normalised the use of relative poverty. So while most of the worst off have roofs over their heads, plenty to eat (safe to assume since obesity is rife amongst the unemployed) their children have games consoles (which I could only have dreamt of in my youth despite both parents working) etc, they are still classed as living in poverty as their incomes are low compared to the best off. Basically in a capitalist economy you are guaranteed to have high poverty levels without near communist levels of taxation and redistribution. This is obviously great news to those on the left of centre as it justifies their pet policies, and any questioning of the measure is seized upon as being evidence of a dangerous extreme capitalist. Rather like other definitions of racism, sexism etc where they have also shut down sensible debate.
Good post, Lawrence. I largely concur:)
However, don't mention anything about the 'officially stated' homeless figures, versus the reality!:eek:;)
Marco.
Minstrel SE
26-05-2019, 21:41
The government is not your friend be it the Tories or Labour.
When you have that firmly fixed in your mind the shenanigans on the news take on a sinister appearance. Brexit was an Eton spat gone wrong and Cameron did a runner. One of the worst spivs in a rotten bunch
May was wheeled in......another one with selfish ambition to have her name in lights. Its all propaganda. The ONS churn out figures which are twisted to say the least. Unemployment......immigration...rest assured you are not given the true picture!
We are given the illusion of choice. What have they ever done for you that wasn't in their own self interest? The country is managed for those who have the big money and power with the aim of getting more taxpayers money to them.
Politics is all a game of keeping a lid on the masses while the chosen few wallow in greed...simple as that really
walpurgis
26-05-2019, 21:51
Politics is all a game of keeping a lid on the masses while the chosen few wallow in greed...simple as that really
Quite right.
We'll get even, come the revolution!! :guns:
Ha - spot on! And there lies the harsh reality...
Martin, we are firmly on the same page, and good to see that you've not been brainwashed by the system like so many others! :thumbsup:
Marco.
Quite right.
We'll get even, come the revolution!! :guns:
Oh *how* I'd love to lead something like that..................
Marco.
walpurgis
26-05-2019, 22:15
Oh *how* I'd love to lead something like that..................
Marco.
Get in the queue matey. I'm well equipped for the role! :D
Get in the queue matey. I'm well equipped for the role! :D
Marco will be stuck in his bubble when it all kicks off.
Light Dependant Resistor
26-05-2019, 22:24
The government is not your friend be it the Tories or Labour.
When you have that firmly fixed in your mind the shenanigans on the news take on a sinister appearance. Brexit was an Eton spat gone wrong and Cameron did a runner. One of the worst spivs in a rotten bunch
May was wheeled in......another one with selfish ambition to have her name in lights. Its all propaganda. The ONS churn out figures which are twisted to say the least. Unemployment......immigration...rest assured you are not given the true picture!
We are given the illusion of choice. What have they ever done for you that wasn't in their own self interest? The country is managed for those who have the big money and power with the aim of getting more taxpayers money to them.
Politics is all a game of keeping a lid on the masses while the chosen few wallow in greed...simple as that really
Well said, but there is thankfully opportunity to undo their greed - they rely on us not knowing at all what they are doing.... thankfully some of us know how to undo their wallowing.
I suddenly seem to have landed in an episode of Citizen Smith.
walpurgis
26-05-2019, 22:33
99.99% of brave words mean nothing. There are the few who have capability, but of course they woudn't be daft enough to mention it on any forum.
Light Dependant Resistor
27-05-2019, 00:16
99.99% of brave words mean nothing. There are the few who have capability, but of course they woudn't be daft enough to mention it on any forum.
Everyone actually has the capability to assess where they are being a victim of underhand manipulation, and from there identify and instead work with legal alternative strategies.
Minstrel SE
27-05-2019, 01:52
I suddenly seem to have landed in an episode of Citizen Smith.
yep freedom for tooting!
I think most people know they are being cheated. I am quite comfortable compared with many but I just feel I have been duped and cheated all my life when it comes to authority...schools and everything the government has its grubby hands in.
We plod on with the promise of shiny trinkets. Revolution is anarchy and nobody really wants that. However we dont live in the democracy they tell us about
I want a system representitive of its people...not a corrupt system where people are scared to express their humanity
I suddenly seem to have landed in an episode of Citizen Smith.
Worst episode ever.
I want a system representitive of its people...not a corrupt system where people are scared to express their humanity
Quote of the year, so far! Hear, hear....:clap::clap:
Fairness and equality must somehow usurp corruption and greed.
Marco.
Indeed... But the good guys always win in the end;)
Marco.
I want a system representitive of its people...not a corrupt system where people are scared to express their humanity
In what way(s) are people scared to express their humanity?
Minstrel SE
27-05-2019, 18:04
In what way(s) are people scared to express their humanity?
Well Ive taken some thought from a latest Russell Brand video. Love him or hate Him I will post the link talking about May and our political system. I like some of his videos and he is not trying to be Jesus :)
Now I think he talks a lot of humanitarian sense. I dont think you can fault what he is saying there. You see what you make of it
https://youtu.be/9ZXpUmpfqY4
The main thing I took away from it is that he has a very good dentist.
I like Brand. He did a very good documentary on Jack Kerouac. But he's out of his depth. 'If we want to change the world...'. Oh no. Here we go again.
Lawrence001
28-05-2019, 12:36
I want a system representitive of its people...not a corrupt system where people are scared to express their humanity
That depends on what you mean by humanity. For example, I strongly believe boatloads of immigrants coming into Europe need to be turned back and sent where they came from. To let them in encourages the people smugglers to expand and put more people at risk. It would also result in further moves to the far right in the countries that have to take them in and house and feed them (and provide expensive healthcare and education) and put up with the forced changes to their culture that inevitably come from mass migration.
In my opinion those that want to encourage it by letting them in are, if I'm being generous, short sighted, but I really think they are inhumane.
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Pigmy Pony
28-05-2019, 18:32
And it depends what you mean by "scared to express".
I imagine most people aren't scared, they just recognise the futility of it. Lawrence in my view has just expressed humanity, but such views are often shouted down, the result being that others are dissuaded from "expressing their humanity", and nothing changes :(
https://i.imgur.com/807j2lN.gif
Minstrel SE
28-05-2019, 22:16
That depends on what you mean by humanity. For example, I strongly believe boatloads of immigrants coming into Europe need to be turned back and sent where they came from. To let them in encourages the people smugglers to expand and put more people at risk. It would also result in further moves to the far right in the countries that have to take them in and house and feed them (and provide expensive healthcare and education) and put up with the forced changes to their culture that inevitably come from mass migration.
In my opinion those that want to encourage it by letting them in are, if I'm being generous, short sighted, but I really think they are inhumane.
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I mean a system where politicians are scared to express themelves because the system itself keeps its puppets in check for fear of rocking the boat. I dont see the leaders this country needs. I see leaders serving the establishment
I am all for free speech and open discusions. I tend to agree on immigration but I also understand why people get on the boats. You and I may get on that boat in different circumstances. Its part of a world issue that never seems to be tackled.
What I am saying is that brexit wouldnt have stopped immigration because we are being lied to. There is a section that want to undermine the working class and like cheap labour scrabbling for jobs. a shortage of housing keeps prices high etc
Why are these people being told there is a better life in the uk because I see the homelessness and shortages in London and elsewhere. Then again anything may be a better than where they are travelling from
I want to see a 100 parties with strong opinions but fear nothing would get done with that system either
walpurgis
29-05-2019, 07:54
Why are these people being told there is a better life in the uk because I see the homelessness and shortages in London and elsewhere. Then again anything may be a better than where they are travelling from
I don't care what the place they are travelling from is like, it's not a hopeless dump because of anything I did. If they are refugees seeking safety, perhaps they could explain what was wrong with stopping at any one of the dozen trouble free countries they passed on their way here? Funny how they don't seem to want to head for Russia or India or even China.
Lawrence001
29-05-2019, 08:36
I mean a system where politicians are scared to express themelves because the system itself keeps its puppets in check for fear of rocking the boat. I dont see the leaders this country needs. I see leaders serving the establishment
I am all for free speech and open discusions. I tend to agree on immigration but I also understand why people get on the boats. You and I may get on that boat in different circumstances. Its part of a world issue that never seems to be tackled.
What I am saying is that brexit wouldnt have stopped immigration because we are being lied to. There is a section that want to undermine the working class and like cheap labour scrabbling for jobs. a shortage of housing keeps prices high etc
Why are these people being told there is a better life in the uk because I see the homelessness and shortages in London and elsewhere. Then again anything may be a better than where they are travelling from
I want to see a 100 parties with strong opinions but fear nothing would get done with that system either
I agree I would probably get on the boat and bring my family if I was them, that would make me an economic migrant. But as I'm here already (as were a long line of my ancestors which I believe makes me more British than recent arrivals) I don't want them coming here. Understanding why people do things is not the same as saying they should do things. I understand why a schizophrenic high on skunk murders a stranger in the street but I don't approve of it.
In my opinion the influx of migrants has kept equilibrium wages low (but then made artificially high by minimum wage laws, not necessarily always a bad thing) and meant that youngsters leaving school have no jobs or training opportunities which have been taken by educated migrants willing to come here on a low wage. In fact that feeling of "what's the point" many must feel if they leave school without taking the university option (which some governments bizarrely seem to think should be 100% of school leavers) may be partly due to this and I connect the rise in knife crime to it. Combined with gory violent films and music becoming the norm, strong drugs becoming acceptable, and the influx of refugees from war torn countries and more violent criminals than the Brit gangs, are increasing and normalising the violence.
On the point about 100 parties, the system here is broken. You essentially have to pick from one of two parties whose policies you may agree with some and disagree with others so you pick the least bad mix. In the modern internet age I don'tnt see why can't you pick from a realistic suite of policies (so you couldn't have better funded social services, NHS, police and education with zero taxes, but there could be different rates of government indebtedness as long as people understand the long term implications, different tax redistribution rates etc, but the combined suite of policies have to be independently assessed as being realistic). You could have sliders for various policies where making one higher pushes another one lower according to an independent and realistic model, in fact that would make people think more about spending choices and lead to more engagement.
We could still have politicians whose job would be to make sure that the views of their constituents are being met and deal with casework etc, but not go off on a tangent in defiance of them. I think it's called a representative rather than a delegate model. No surprise most of the current crop seem to think it's a bad idea.
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Well, as The Beatles sang 'all you need is love'. Trouble is, all you actually get is hatred and mistrust. The 'others' are too poor ('chavs'), too rich ('toffs'), or too foreign, and politicians and the media will always find a scapegoat for you to blame. Divide and rule ... rules.
willbewill
29-05-2019, 09:05
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed*it has been said*that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"
Winston Churchill
I don't care what the place they are travelling from is like, it's not a hopeless dump because of anything I did. .
Didn't you know all the shithole countries are shitholes because of the big, bad English? Even the ones that were shitholes before we got there. Even the ones we never went anywhere near.
Report to the re-education camp at once where you will learn that you must atone for the sins of your ancestors! (and a whole lot of other shit that they didn't do but we now have to pretend they did because of 21st century middle-class guilt re-writing history in its own image).
Light Dependant Resistor
29-05-2019, 11:59
Didn't you know all the shithole countries are shitholes because of the big, bad English? Even the ones that were shitholes before we got there. Even the ones we never went anywhere near.
Report to the re-education camp at once where you will learn that you must atone for the sins of your ancestors! (and a whole lot of other shit that they didn't do but we now have to pretend they did because of 21st century middle-class guilt re-writing history in its own image).
Unsure where you are going with this, in terms of May retiring- or indeed possibly moving to another job, ... er might be good to get back on topic.
Unsure where you are going with this, in terms of May retiring- or indeed possibly moving to another job, ... er might be good to get back on topic.
Nobody cares what she does now so what's the point? The thread was only started as a pun on her name anyway.
In a wider context my post takes in the whole argument re Brexit, nationalism, national identity and its relationship to history and revisionist history, and whether we should let that dictate, or even influence future policy and the UK's disposition viz a viz the rest of the world.
Or whether you give the slightest flying fuck, when you don't even consider yourself as British, let alone English?:eyebrows:;)
Marco [Scottish born, Italian bred, European at heart].
Well, as The Beatles sang 'all you need is love'. Trouble is, all you actually get is hatred and mistrust. The 'others' are too poor ('chavs'), too rich ('toffs'), or too foreign, and politicians and the media will always find a scapegoat for you to blame. Divide and rule ... rules.
Just to be clear... Who is the "you" you're referring to, and who is giving out the "hatred and mistrust", and who is it directed at?
Marco.
Or whether you give the slightest flying fuck, when you don't even consider yourself as British, let alone English?:eyebrows:;)
Marco [Scottish born, Italian bred, European at heart].
The slightest flying fuck about what?
About anything listed in the second paragraph of your previous post, especially the 'B' word...
Marco.
Minstrel SE
30-05-2019, 18:09
I thought Private eye were funny with mays legacy in full
Blank Page!
I thought Private ye were funny with May's legacy in full
Blank Page!
Yes - you have to laugh, if you didn't you'd cry! Probably the worst UK PM in recent history since Anthony Eden.
Can't think of many good pms tbh.
Not many good politicians period. Just a bunch of self serving egotists
She enjoyed the cricket at the oval today though, supporting.... The Country I Love
Cricket? :spew: Biggest, boring load of SHITE ever invented in the name of sport! :doh:
;)
Marco.
Biggest, boring load of SHITE ever invented in the name of sport! :doh:
;)
Marco.
Are you sure you are not confusing the game with football? :D
No comparison. Footy when played well has everything. Cricket is more of an elegant way of life
No comparison. Footy when played well has everything. Cricket is more of an elegant way of life
Well put that man !
No comparison. Footy when played well has everything. Cricket is more of an elegant way of life
Touché ;)
No comparison. Footy when played well has everything. Cricket is more of an elegant way of life
Aye, of course!:lol:
Marco.
Any sport where they stop for a meal and drinks is alright in my book!
The whole world would benefit from a stronger England .
A Churchill or Thatcher would do for you what Trump is doing for us.
Yes, there is a little pain short term but your economy will become stronger and then everyone benefits.
What you don't see on CNN is the help wanted signs everywhere and wages are going up too.
Black unemployment has never been lower,ever.
Same for Hispanics and women , sad it is not better reported.
The best way to end poverty in the inner cities is to create jobs.
The whole world would benefit from a stronger England .
A Churchill or Thatcher would do for you what Trump is doing for us.
Yes, there is a little pain short term but your economy will become stronger and then everyone benefits.
What you don't see on CNN is the help wanted signs everywhere and wages are going up too.
Black unemployment has never been lower,ever.
Same for Hispanics and women , sad it is not better reported.
The best way to end poverty in the inner cities is to create jobs.Ah, England.. Fook the rest of us eg[emoji23]
Any sport where they stop for a meal and drinks is alright in my book!
Yes, they do that just to keep everyone awake!
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
31-05-2019, 06:15
No comparison. Footy when played well has everything. Cricket is more of an elegant way of life
Aye Scotland doesn't need cricket - chucking a log great distances is all the elegance you need :ner: I'm not coming out in support of cricket. Or football, or rugby, tennis or golf. They're all a load of balls. I prefer sports to have wheels or weapons :)
Yesh, Granty frequently loves 'tossing his caber':eyebrows:
I'm with you on the wheels thing, though. Rally or F1 is a damn sight more thrilling than the dullsville of Lord's. Weapons? Do you mean stuff like clay-pigeon shooting, archery, 'whacking wise-guys', or what?:)
Anyway, for me, if a sport doesn't make 'good TV', by keeping you on the edge of your seat with excitement, it's not a proper sport!
Marco.
Cricket is quintessential Englishness played on a beautiful piece of green grass, a 5 day match, a moving game of chess. The oval is a green oasis in the middle of urban London.
Well you get the idea. As John Major once said rather excitedly ( well for him ) cricket and warm beer on a summers day. Blizz
Cricket is quintessential Englishness played on a beautiful piece of green grass, a 5 day match, a moving game of chess. The oval is a green oasis in the middle of urban London.
Well you get the idea. As John Major once said rather excitedly ( well for him ) cricket and warm beer on a summers day. Blizz
Yes, and that's one of the reasons I hate it!;)
I don't like sports that are 'quintessentially' anything of that sort, as for me it attracts snobbery and elitism - two things I abhor. I like sports that have widespread appeal, and which aren't associated with any one particular (or merely a select few countries).
Marco.
If you think cricket is slow don't ever go and watch baseball.
Yes, and that's one of the reasons I hate it!;)
I don't like sports that are 'quintessentially' anything. I like stuff that has 'broad church' appeal.
Marco.. I like the footie as much as you Marco don't forget. Notice the way I brought it back to prime ministers though, Clever that. That was a lightening fast post btw on your part.
If you think cricket is slow don't ever go and watch baseball.
Yeah, that's another yawn-fest... I think some sports are much more fun to play than watch, and for me cricket comes into that category. I used to like playing 'rounders' at school, or basketball and even hockey.
But paying to watch it live or watching it on TV? I'd rather stick a red-hot poker up my Jap's eye!
Marco.
. I like the footie as much as you Marco don't forget. Notice the way I brought it back to prime ministers though, Clever that. That was a lightening fast post btw on your part.
Lol - I'm a fast typer!
Marco.
Ah, England.. Fook the rest of us eg[emoji23]
I imagine by 'England' he meant to include the dependant territories and colonies.
Absolutely, and I'm sure that's what Jeff meant.
However, consider the very notion of England being thought of as representing the UK/Britain, and why that perception exists to some outsiders, and to someone such as Jeff, who's far from geographically ignorant (even if he is as mad as a box of frogs:D) and you'll begin to appreciate why it [the perception among some that we, the people of Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland, who make up the majority of the UK, apparently don't exist] irks the hell out of us, and therefore seek to go it alone........
'Stronger together'? Aye, only if it suits England!!;)
Marco.
WESTLOWER
31-05-2019, 09:02
Yesh, Granty frequently loves 'tossing his caber':eyebrows:
I'm with you on the wheels thing, though. Rally or F1 is a damn sight more thrilling than the dullsville of Lord's. Weapons? Do you mean stuff like clay-pigeon shooting, archery, 'whacking wise-guys', or what?:)
Anyway, for me, if a sport doesn't make 'good TV', by keeping you on the edge of your seat with excitement, it's not a proper sport!
Marco.
I don’t think I can think of a duller watch than the predictability of Scottish football!!:ner:
Well then, allow the old firm into the EPL, and once we have access to the multiple tens of millions, which all the clubs there get, and we start taking trophies off of your top clubs, and growing our fan base accordingly, at the expense of that of other clubs, it'll make things much more exiting, won't it??:ner::ner::D;)
Marco.
WESTLOWER
31-05-2019, 09:06
Well then, allow the old firm into the EPL, and once we have access to the multiple tens of millions all the clubs there get, and we start taking trophies off of your top clubs, and growing our fan base accordingly, at the expense of that of other clubs, it'll make things much more exiting, won't it??:ner::ner::D;)
Marco.
Unfortunately you’d be a mid table team at best! :D
Yes, to start with, but not once the money started flowing in and we could attract the best players and managers. That done, we'd be up there with the best of them, helped of course by the fact that Celtic and Rangers are intrinsically much bigger clubs [due to worldwide fan base, history and tradition] than most of those currently in the EPL.
Marco.
WESTLOWER
31-05-2019, 09:19
Yes, to start with, but not once the money started flowing in and we could attract the best players and managers. That done, we'd be up there with the best of them, helped of course by the fact that Celtic and Rangers are intrinsically much bigger clubs [due to worldwide fan base, history and tradition] than most of those currently in the EPL.
Marco.
Meanwhile, the 'edge of the seat' Scottish sports spectacle continues... :ner:
Well, it is if you're a supporter of one of the teams, especially Celtic, as what we've achieved over the last few years has been nothing short of spectacular, and yes, very exciting...
Remind me who your team is again? Everton was it?:)
If so, then least said the better:D;)
Marco.
Absolutely, and I'm sure that's what Jeff meant.
However, consider the very notion of England being thought of as representing the UK/Britain, and why that perception exists to some outsiders, and to someone such as Jeff, who's far from geographically ignorant (even if he is as mad as a box of frogs:D) and you'll begin to appreciate why it [the perception among some that we, the people of Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland, who make up the majority of the UK, apparently don't exist] irks the hell out of us, and therefore seek to go it alone.........
I imagine the thought process goes 'The language is English, therefore the country is England'. Plus, in terms of population, England is way bigger than the rest of the UK put together (54,786,327 for England, 5,373,000 for Scotland, 3,099,086 for Wales, 1,851,621 for Northern Ireland).
Well, if that's the thought process (which I'm sure doesn't apply to Jeff), then those guilty need a bloody good geography lesson!!
In any case, you're not seriously condoning that type of braindead thinking? It's what makes the blood of the Scots, Welsh and Irish boil, and why for some, bad feeling exists towards England.
Marco.
size wise the rest are bigger. of course it was just an american name, but nevertheless a wrong one. calafornia has biggest pop in us so do we call americans californians?
Well, if that's the thought process (which I'm sure doesn't apply to Jeff), then those guilty need to get a bloody good geography lesson!!
As for the latter, not in terms of land mass. And in any case, you're not seriously condoning that type of braindead thinking? It's what makes the blood of the Scots, Welsh and Irish boil, and why for some bad feeling exists towards England.
Marco.
I'm seeking to understand, which is not to condone. I imagine Canadians and Mexicans get pissed off with being lumped in with citizens of the USA when 'America' is being discussed. But I don't see why England/the English should be blamed for foreigners (those from the US in particular) not grasping the difference between England, Great Britain and the UK.
no harm in educating is there? there was a smillie attached
Well, quite. My own grasp of geography is hazy; I confuse Slovenia with the Slovak Republic, and am not entirely sure which Baltic country is which.
On a visit to Belgium a few years back, the tour guide was explaining the rivalry between the Flemish speakers and the French speakers. I asked him which group he sided with, to which he replied 'I'm from Luxembourg. We hate all of them.'
I'm seeking to understand, which is not to condone. I imagine Canadians and Mexicans get pissed off with being lumped in with citizens of the USA when 'America' is being discussed. But I don't see why England/the English should be blamed for foreigners (those from the US in particular) not grasping the difference between England, Great Britain and the UK.
Only dimwits would do that. And if so, then the Canadians and Mexicans will know how we feel!
In terms of the latter, the ignorance stems largely from London being the capital (power source) of the UK, which of course is in England, and the influence/control it exerts on the whole of Britain (and of course Queeny lives there), thus the subsequent publicity that generates worldwide, leading to the ignorant from abroad thinking that London is England (yes I've heard that one before!) ergo, England is the UK.
If/when Scotland gain independence from the UK [and the sooner that happens the better], and when that becomes public knowledge, Scotland will (rightfully) be properly recognised worldwide as a separate country, rather than as it is now (to the uneducated), and lumped in with England.
The fact is, no true Scot, Welshman or Irishman would ever want to be thought of as English!:doh:
Marco.
size wise the rest are bigger. of course it was just an american name, but nevertheless a wrong one. calafornia has biggest pop in us so do we call americans californians?
Indeed:)
I'm *extremely* passionate about the countries making up the UK, other than just England, being given the worldwide recognition that they deserve, and it boils my piss when they don't!!
Marco.
Tbh it's probably a compliment. England is frowned upon abroad. Scotland and the other "regions" of London England are better thought of.
Only dimwits would do that. And if so, then the Canadians and Mexicans will know how we feel!
In terms of the latter, the ignorance stems largely from London being the capital (power source) of the UK, which of course is in England, and the influence/control it exerts on the whole of Britain (and of course Queeny lives there), thus the subsequent publicity that generates worldwide leading to the ignorant from abroad thinking that London is England (yes I've heard that one before!) ergo, England is the UK.
If/when Scotland gain independence from the UK [and the sooner that happens the better], and when that becomes public knowledge, Scotland will (rightfully) be properly recognised, worldwide, as a separate country, rather than as it is now (to the uneducated), and lumped in with England.
The fact is, no true Scot, Welshman or Irishman would ever want to be thought of as English!:doh:
Marco.
But a Northern Irish protestant would rather be thought of as British than Irish, which just illustrates what a load of bollocks nationalism is.
Indeed... However, I'm not championing blinkered nationalism (not my thing at all), but simply fairness and equality, and for the country I was born in to be geographically recognised in the correct manner. It's wrongly being lumped in with England, by the uninitiated [to put it politely], for reasons described, none of which are fair or equal!
Quite simply, every country in the UK should when necessary be properly recognised and given the credit it deserves. Often all that's heard in Britain is 'England this, England that', so it's no wonder why some folk abroad think that the UK is all about bloody England:doh:
Marco.
Until the late 20th century the terms 'England' and 'Britain' were interchangeable. This still persists in the former colonies. Nothing is meant by it, it's just the way it was.
Until the late 20th century the terms 'England' and 'Britain' were interchangeable. This still persists in the former colonies. Nothing is meant by it, it's just the way it was.
Don't they get out much, then?;)
You make a valid point, but I still contend that there's more to it these days than that.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
31-05-2019, 16:55
I doubt there will ever be 'fairness and equality', anywhere, ever. The world is a giant bunch of squabbling siblings, and there will always be someone complaining "he's got more chips than me on his plate".
As for national identity, and other's perception of it, well, if someone told you he was American, you would automatically assume he came from one of the North American states. And you would be rightly taken aback if he angrily stated that he was from South America. Not that a South American would call himself that, he would be Brazilian, or Chilean, or something. All vey confusing, and IMO not worth getting hot and bothered about :)
Even though we are all Europeans, I see myself as British or English. But I wouldn't care if someone referred to me as a European.
I'm reminded of when George W Bush was introduced to Charlotte Church:
GWB 'And where are you from little lady?' (he probably didn't say 'little lady' but I like to think he might have done)
CC 'I'm from Wales.'
GWB 'Oh really? So which state is that in?'
I doubt there will ever be 'fairness and equality', anywhere, ever. The world is a giant bunch of squabbling siblings, and there will always be someone complaining "he's got more chips than me on his plate".
As for national identity, and other's perception of it, well, if someone told you he was American, you would automatically assume he came from one of the North American states. And you would be rightly taken aback if he angrily stated that he was from South America. Not that a South American would call himself that, he would be Brazilian, or Chilean, or something. All vey confusing, and IMO not worth getting hot and bothered about :)
Even though we are all Europeans, I see myself as British or English. But I wouldn't care if someone referred to me as a European.
I don't disagree, but that doesn't make inequality or unfairness right, or that we shouldn't do something, however small, to oppose it and the controlling system! :guns:
In terms of the bit in bold, we couldn't be more different. I don't consider myself at all as British [not that there's anything wrong with such - far from it], but Italian-bred, Scottish born, Wales-loving, as that's now my adopted country, and fundamentally European at heart!
It's simply how I've been built:)
Marco.
I'm reminded of when George W Bush was introduced to Charlotte Church:
GWB 'And where are you from little lady?' (he probably didn't say 'little lady' but I like to think he might have done)
CC 'I'm from Wales.'
GWB 'Oh really? So which state is that in?'
...and which neatly displayed his insular small-mindedness and ignorance [plus if guilty of making the above comment, also demeaning sexist nature], thus proving often that those in most power are the least deserving of that position!
Bush was, with also the influence of his family, one of the most odious creatures ever to populate this earth, and singularly responsible for more deaths, as a result of creating grossly inhumane, money-making wars for the elite than almost anyone else born.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
31-05-2019, 20:11
I don't disagree, but that doesn't make inequality or unfairness right, or that we shouldn't do something, however small, to oppose it and the controlling system! :guns:
In terms of the bit in bold, we couldn't be more different. I don't consider myself at all as British [not that there's anything wrong with such - far from it], but Italian-bred, Scottish born, Wales-loving, as it's now my adopted country, and fundamentally European at heart!
It's simply how I've been built:)
Marco.
It goes without saying that inequality and unfairness isn't right but we can oppose it all day long and that won't change anything as the people responsible don't give a shiney shite what the little guys think.
Perhaps the only way is to get involved in politics and try to change things from within. Have you considered becoming a Councillor or stand representation of the party of your choice? I reckon you could be quite effective - even if you can't changes the view of your opponents, you can at least wear them down until they give up :D
Being semi retired, you may be in a better position than some to put in the hours and legwork, although your garden may turn to shit. Just borrow a couple of sheep (not the one you borrowed for that party, she was a right diva) and at least your lawn will be ok.
I never got the whole crusade against inequality and unfairness.
If everyone got exactly the same start in life and exactly the same, even handed treatment how bad are the people who still fail despite that going to feel?
And some things that are pretty important can't really be fixed. I'm not as good looking as Brad Pitt. That's so unfair. I should be entitled to some compensation for that.
I am as good looking as Brad Pitt and want compo for that. It said Sean Connery in my profile
I believe Pitt was actually compensated for not being as good looking as Connery. But that's Hollywood.
Politically correct poker: Every player starts with the same hand.
Pigmy Pony
31-05-2019, 21:08
Well I'm a professional Brad Pitt impersonator. My stage name is Pitt Pony :)
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