View Full Version : Audiophile vinyl records
mainaman
14-10-2018, 01:33
All albums were bought new from me,played just once and are still mint and shrinkwrapped(unsealed,of course).Delivery is via Royal Mail and is included in the price.
Natalie Merchant-Tigerlily-2lp 45rpm MoFi(arrived with one slightly split gatefold corner,otherwise the usual outstanding MoFi quality)-45 pounds SOLD
Dadawa-Sister Drum-DMM,made in Germany(ultra rare import,very quiet copy)-50 pounds
Pink Floyd-The Dark Side of the Moon-2016 edition-13 pounds SOLD
Pink Floyd-The Wall-2lp 2016 edition-18 pounds
reefhead
14-10-2018, 05:55
I'll take Tigerlily if still available
thanks
mainaman
18-10-2018, 03:58
Photos of ''Sister Drum'' as it is a very,very rare release.
2443724438244392444024441
If the The Wall is still available, I'll take it.
martian sunrise
18-10-2018, 10:19
just arrived anton - thanks
martian sunrise
18-10-2018, 10:20
in my head, ^that was a pm...
mainaman
18-10-2018, 10:44
If the The Wall is still available, I'll take it.
Sorry,somebody sent me a PM about it earlier today.
mainaman
21-10-2018, 01:18
All sold now,thanks.
Hi Anton,
Can you reply to my pm regarding the issue with the Sister Drum LP.
Bit just in case the pm hasn't gone through I'm going to have to return the LP as it's faulty, I've tried a wet clean tonight after playing it on Sunday for the first time and the clicks are still there at the end of the last track side 1.
If you send me your address I'd like to return it for a refund.
Thanks,
Mike.
Edit: just for clarification this ISN'T on the run-out it's over the music as the track fades out, seriously loud pops that if you were playing loud would have you running for the volume control.
mainaman
25-10-2018, 05:27
PM sent.
PM sent.And replied [emoji4]
Here's the video I promised that lets you hear the pops on the end of the last track, you'll hear them from 15 secs onward.
https://youtu.be/0Lx44uhQYAk
I'm sure you'll agree that's not acceptable for any LP :scratch:
mainaman
25-10-2018, 14:33
Thanks for the video.I am sorry and no offence,but :eek:
Are you really complaining from clicking in the fadeout of a song fifteen seconds before the dead wax and calling it a faulty LP!In a 45 minutes long album and one of the quitest pressings i have ever heard.
Yes.
As far as I'm an concerned that's not acceptable and certainly can't be described as mint.
And absolutely NOT acceptable on a £50 LP.
I'll ask the Mods for their opinion although I realise that they can't do anything as it's caveat emptor.
But if no refund is forthcoming, then I'll have to look at other avenues to pursue my refund.
In fact it doesn't matter if it's a £50 LP I wouldn't accept it if it was £5 and described as mint :steam:
WESTLOWER
25-10-2018, 15:31
Yes.
As far as I'm an concerned that's not acceptable and certainly can't be described as mint.
And absolutely NOT acceptable on a £50 LP.
I'll ask the Mods for their opinion although I realise that they can't do anything as it's caveat emptor.
But if no refund is forthcoming, then I'll have to look at other avenues to pursue my refund.
Mint is a condition description I would never use for any record I am selling, it's a hiding to nowt!
TBH i've never seen a totally mint record, I don't actually think they exist!
Personally, that click on the fade out would possibly affect my listening experience of that record.
If the rest of the record plays well, thats irrelevant, it would bug you when listening.
It should/could have been mentioned in the listing.
mainaman
25-10-2018, 16:20
I was under the presumption that everybody realises that there are no absolutely mint records and ''still mint'' means the same condition as day one,not worn yet,an adjective. Maybe i should have put this as a disclaimer in the ad and graded the packaging and the vinyl as Near Mint as they are all opened,which i have STATED in the ad.One has a split corner,which was stated too.Obviously only wrapped LPs without any visible damage can be MINT as used not as an adjective,but as a Goldmine grading-''Certainly never been played, possibly even still sealed.''
The packaging and the vinyl itself are spotless and I wouldn't advertise faulty LPs.I am returning brand new records,if they have issues as noise and warp.But if some clicking seconds before the dead wax,which i dont remember at all(as it probably didn't bug me at all and i HATE noise and i own a very low noise and revealing audio setup),is ruining your enjoyment of the album,i am amazed that you listen to records at all.Feel free to pursue other avenues.
The outcome is i am probably not going to advertise any more vinyl in the forums as somebody else may complain that a LP has a tick on side one and a pop on the other one and that is unaceptable even for 5 pounds.To think that I have been told by friends that all my new LPs sound like CD without any crackle and pop.Trust goes both ways.
Regards.
I was under the presumption that everybody realises that there are no absolutely mint records and ''still mint'' means the same condition as day one,an adjective. Maybe i should have put this as a disclaimer in the ad and graded the packaging and the vinyl as Near Mint as they are all opened,which i have STATED in the ad.Obviously only wrapped LPs can be MINT as used not as an adjective,but as a Goldmine grading-''Certainly never been played, possibly even still sealed.''
The packaging and the vinyl itself are spotless and I wouldn't advertise faulty LPs.I am returning brand new records,if they have issues as noise and warp.But if some clicking seconds before the dead wax,which i dont remember at all(as it probably didn't bug me at all and i HATE noise and i own a very low noise and revealing audio setup),is ruining your enjoyment of the album,i am amazed that you listen to records at all.Feel free to pursue other avenues.
The outcome is i am probably not going to advertise any more vinyl in the forums as somebody else may complain that a LP has a tick on side one and a pop on the other one and that is unaceptable even for 5 pounds.To think that I have been told by friends that all my new LPs sound like CD without any crackle and pop.Trust goes both ways.
Regards.So you're happy to spend £50 on something that's faulty, because let's face it the evidence is right there.
When they're DESCRIBED as perfect I don't expect pops over the music.
I'll make sure others are aware of your standards and how you deal with issues, I'm pretty sure this WILL affect anything future sales that you intend on the other Forums you frequent.
If you check discogs grading system you'll see that this LP probably is just slightly ahead of very good.
If you're so confident that there isn't an issue with the LP, take it back refund me and sell it again [emoji6]
But you won't do that because you know it's not worth the price you sold it to me [emoji3525]
Its an unusual noise and still in the track, although admittedly only just; but nevertheless there. Probably from new, and may not have been heard by seller, as every cart tracks different. Still its annoying and should have been sent back at time of purchase. Not definitely a deal breaker but would have wanted a discount or replacement as its a new record.
Is there a scratch Mike? can anything be seen via naked eye, or with magnifying glass. might be something stuck in a groove
Its an unusual noise and still in the track, although admittedly only just; but nevertheless there. Probably from new, and may not have been heard by seller, as every cart tracks different. Still its annoying and should have been sent back at time of purchase. Not definitely a deal breaker but would have wanted a discount or replacement as its a new record.
Is there a scratch Mike? can anything be seen via naked eye, or with magnifying glass. might be something stuck in a grooveI can't see anything, I've given it one wet clean in case it's just something in the groove, I'll do that again tonight after a good soak and see if it's still there.
To be honest there are one or two light scratches on the surface of the LP but not where this problem is.
Will update later.
a magnifying glass and a lot of light will tell you.
a magnifying glass and a lot of light will tell you.I'm pretty sure it will be a little bit of something in the groove I'll see if another clean helps.
mainaman
25-10-2018, 16:49
I have never described anything as perfect,i don't remember hearing any ticks and even with the ticks just before the dead wax i don't consider this LP as faulty or slightly ahead of very good.I have not done Goldmine grading in the ad and i remarked that it is a very quiet pressing,which it is.
To the buyer questioning my trading/selling/overall standards and integrity:i have bought and sold more than one hundred mostly expensive audio and video gear throughout the years at avforums and i have not gotten a single negative feedback.The only person,who wanted a refund for something and behaved in suspiciously similar manner was banned by the moderators.If something is faulty in any way,i would describe it as such and price it as such.Also the grading standards of vinyl are still being debated and some records may play noise-free in one setup and not so well in other!
I have never described anything as perfect,i don't remember hearing any ticks and even with the ticks just before the dead wax i don't consider this LP as faulty or slightly ahead of very good.I have not done Goldmine grading in the ad and i remarked that it is a very quiet pressing,which it is.
To the buyer questioning my trading/selling/overall standards and integrity:i have bought and sold more than one hundred mostly expensive audio and video gear throughout the years at avforums and i have not gotten a single negative feedback.The only person,who wanted a refund for something and behaved in suspiciously similar manner was banned by the moderators.If something is faulty in any way,i would describe it as such and price it as such.Also the grading standards of vinyl are still being debated and some records may play noise-free in one setup and not so well in other!So if the ticks were in the first 15 seconds of the track?
The Crux of the matter is they are IN THE MUSIC and as far as I'm concerned that's not acceptable and I'm pretty sure most if not all other buyers would be the same.
If you think I'm going away then you don't know me [emoji6]
WESTLOWER
25-10-2018, 17:00
I’m sure this issue can be sorted without any need for doubts on each other’s characters!
If the buyer cleans the record and the fault is still there and he isn’t satisfied... you gotta
Take the record back and issue a refund. Selling records isn’t easy, that’s why Discogs do so well.. they protect the buyer.
Anyway this all could have been sorted via PM ?
Mike did try..
I’m sure this issue can be sorted without any need for doubts on each other’s characters!
If the buyer cleans the record and the fault is still there and he isn’t satisfied... you gotta
Take the record back and issue a refund. Selling records isn’t easy, that’s why Discogs do so well.. they protect the buyer.
Anyway this all could have been sorted via PM ?
Mike did try..I politely tried to resolve it over pm and got no joy there so had no choice but to open it up here.
Like I say if the seller is so confident I'm wrong and being picky, refund me, advertise it again and sell it again, simple.
Tell you what, I'm going to play the LP again at the volume I listen to when the house is empty and I'll post another video.
First time I tried this track I was running for the volume control [emoji23]
https://youtu.be/NCGv78S2lNw
its the double clicks that are odd.its like there are 2 separate issues right beside each other over about 6 to 8 grooves. Must be noticeable. Its not expecially loud tho
what type of stylus is it mike?
mainaman
25-10-2018, 17:45
Well,i have sold just several LPs in the last years and i will probably not list anything again as i dont have the patience to deal with accusations and threats when a second-hand record is not perfect!I am not for 50 quid,but i have principles.
Well,i have sold just several LPs in the last years and i will probably not list anything again as i dont have the patience to deal with accusations and threats when a second-hand record is not perfect!I am not for 50 quid,but i have principles.Haven't accused you of anything?
I know you've sold loads of kit, I know you're a good seller I just don't get why you're being so stubborn over this one?
Put yourself in my shoes how would you hope to be dealt with if you had an issue?
The evidence has been presented I've shown it twice now, I'm in the process of cleaning it again to see if it cures the issue.
Update soon.
mainaman
25-10-2018, 18:01
I would return it if there was a problem,when it arrived,and i wouldn't lose any money,selling it for much less at a later date.
Because i have put myself in your shoes-i would return it if there was a problem,when it arrived,and i wouldn't lose any money,selling it for much less.Eh?
That makes no sense to me at all [emoji23]
mainaman
25-10-2018, 18:10
Eh?
That makes no sense to me at all [emoji23]
Sorry,multitasking.
Second clean didn't help.
I'm still trying to understand your last post, but I'll admit I haven't a clue what you're trying to say [emoji6][emoji4]
Sorry,multitasking.Men can only do two things at once according to my wife, and one of thems breathing [emoji23]
I did have a reply ready to post via Tapatalk but it crashed and I can't be bothered to rewrite it [emoji35] [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
montesquieu
25-10-2018, 18:35
Anton, 'mint' is a designation (like others) I would use with great hesitation, but use it you did.
No-one is accusing you of anything here but a £50 record + unhappy buyer, the only answer here is to take the record back if that's what the buyer has requested. As Mike says, put yourself in the buyer's shoes.
The records you listed are described on this audiophile forum as 'audiophile records', they aren't any old junk from a charity shop (or even ebay). You should therefore expect an audiophile to expect that 'mint' means 'mint'. I'm personally not a regular buyer of expensive records (classical being still more 'accessible' for the most part in terms of pricey artefacts) but I would certainly expect that a persistent click be declared on anything other than a £5 ebay punt.
Do yourself a favour and deal with Mike the way you would personally expect to be dealt with. By all means list again with a declaration of a click in the run-out groove - it may not bother some people (it certainly seems like a relatively minor fault) and you might well get the same money again - but if not, a small loss is preferable surely to a bad repuation?
Anton, 'mint' is a designation (like others) I would use with great hesitation, but use it you did.
No-one is accusing you of anything here but a £50 record + unhappy buyer, the only answer here is to take the record back if that's what the buyer has requested. As Mike says, put yourself in the buyer's shoes.
The records you listed are described on this audiophile forum as 'audiophile records', they aren't any old junk from a charity shop (or even ebay). You should therefore expect an audiophile to expect that 'mint' means 'mint'. I'm personally not a regular buyer of expensive records (classical being still more 'accessible' for the most part in terms of pricey artefacts) but I would certainly expect that a persistent click be declared on anything other than a £5 ebay punt.
Do yourself a favour and deal with Mike the way you would personally expect to be dealt with. By all means list again with a declaration of a click in the run-out groove - it may not bother some people (it certainly seems like a relatively minor fault) and you might well get the same money again - but if not, a small loss is preferable surely to a bad repuation?
Thanks for the support, but if the clicks were just in the run-out where there's no music I wouldn't complain but they're over the music!
Anton couldn't declare the clicks as he hadn't heard them, so in fairness he listed it as he should have done, my point is that the clicks are there.
Tapatalk crashed again whilst typing my reply, can't be arsed doing the rest of my reply again !!!
If you know anyone with a different profile stylus I'd be interested in the results mike.
Ive not come across this double click in 50 years
If you know anyone with a different profile stylus I'd be interested in the results mike.
Ive not come across this double click in 50 yearsUnfortunately none close by.
I'm sure I can see two tiny marks a fraction of mm apart right where it happens, if I had a magnifying glass it would be easier but I don't.
WESTLOWER
25-10-2018, 19:06
Seller just needs to refund and accept it is what it is.
Just about Every record buyer who buys on the web blind has had similar
Either from a company or individual...it’s a no quibble scenario. Especially on an ‘audiophile’ cut
The mans unhappy, even after cleaning the flipping thing twice!
Take it on the chin and keep your rep intact..
Seller just needs to refund and accept it is what it is.
Just about Every record buyer who buys on the web blind has had similar
Either from a company or individual...it’s a no quibble scenario. Especially on an ‘audiophile’ cut
The mans unhappy, even after cleaning the flipping thing twice!
Take it on the chin and keep your rep intact..Thing is, I'm thinking that even though I'm being supported here there seems to be a sort of reluctance to agree that the LP is faulty.
I have no issue when Anton not having heard the fault prior to selling it, but for me, it's there clear to hear
But... I'm feel I'm being portrayed as being 'picky'.
Honestly I'm not, I've plenty other used records bought here and elsewhere that are worse and I've returned a good few too but in each case they had flaws, warped, popped, clicks, jumps when they shouldn't have had any according either the description or the price asked.
I don't see this LP as any different. It didn't show up on Antons system but it sure a hell shows on mine.
I'll say it again, if the clicks were in the silent part I wouldn't have a problem with it, but they're over the music and that is the Crux of the matter.
You didnt return mine Mikey :eek:
Perhaps you knew you were dealing with an idiot ,in my case ;)
You didnt return mine Mikey :eek:Yes but the price you asked and how you described them was more than acceptable.
But I'll ask you this, if I had complained that they weren't acceptable what would YOU have done [emoji23]
Yes but the price you asked and how you described them was more than acceptable.
But I'll ask you this, if I had complained that they weren't acceptable what would YOU have done [emoji23]
I dont want to get involved ,but I would have taken them back .
In fact I was looking for my copy of Made in Japan last week :)
I dont want to get involved ,but I would have taken them back .
In fact I was looking for my copy of Made in Japan last week :)I know you would have a NO you're not getting it back lol
I think in fairness to seller if it looked mint then description was fair enough.
Generally we expect the protagonists to come to some amicable arrangement, preferably in private.
Hence why I will be removing the vote thread as it is against the ethos Imo.
I think you should both get together via pm and make arrangements. Either a full return or a partial refund.
I think in fairness to seller if it looked mint then description was fair enough.
Generally we expect the protagonists to come to some amicable arrangement, preferably in private.
Hence why I will be removing the vote thread as it is against the ethos Imo.
I think you should both get together via pm and make arrangements. Either a full return or a partial refund.Grant I tried that method first, hence the posts on this thread [emoji6]
You'll also notice that I didn't post the reply I got via pm either, I should, but I won't as it's private.
Yup well if he won't play ball in any way then there's not much to be gained from setting a pack against him mike.
I have to first and foremost look to the site, it's owner and the members. That's why I removed the other thread. If Marco disagrees he can reinstate it.
I can't be any fairer.
As far as the seller is concerned this thread and his intransigence in having any discussion does his reputation no favours. Alas at end of day there is no way here to change the standoff alas.
Yup well if he won't play ball in any way then there's not much to me gained from setting a pack against him mike.
I have to first and foremost look to the site, it's owner and the members. That's why I removed the other thread. If Marco disagrees he can reinstate it.
I can't be any fairer.
As far as the seller is concerned this thread and his intransigence in having any discussion does his reputation no favours. Alas at end of day there is no way here to change the standoff alas.Sorry Grant it wasn't a thread designed to 'set a pack' I was just wanting honest opinions in case 'I' was wrong in expecting a refund. It was a thread about me NOT the seller.
Sorry if it came across as different it certainly wasn't meant to.
mainaman
25-10-2018, 20:25
I think that i have been honest with my ad and this is turning me off from selling vinyl anymore as not having heard any issues in my setup is obviously not a guarantee.But i will send the buyer PM,goodwill and all that.
I think that i have been honest with my ad and this is turning me off from selling vinyl anymore as not having heard any issues in my setup is obviously not a guarantee.But i will send the buyer PM,goodwill and all that.Don't let it put you off, I have no issue with you not knowing there was any issue with the LP at all. I would quite happily buy from you again no problem and when received the LP or LPs played fine and no I haven't read your pm yet in case your thinking I'm being nice after seeing it, I mean it might even tell me to feck off lol
Ps: as far as the advert is concerned I'm sure you described the LPs honestly and correctly.
Hopefully we shall get a fair resolution to this... remember the ethos of the forum and that we are all just distant buds into kit and muzac.
It would be a shame for both, and the forum as a whole if we don't.
Having read through this thread and analysed the positions of both the buyer and seller, regardless of anything else, this is the crux of the matter, summed up in the following two posts [note highlighted text]:
Dadawa-Sister Drum-DMM,made in Germany(ultra rare import,very quiet copy)-50 pounds
I'm going to have to return the LP as it's faulty...just for clarification this ISN'T on the run-out it's over the music as the track fades out, seriously loud pops that if you were playing loud would have you running for the volume control.
Note the diametrically opposed descriptions, between the seller and buyer, of the claimed quietness of said LP, on playback!
Anton,
I don't doubt for one single second that you advertised and graded the LP in question honestly. And in your system, on playback, weren't aware of any "pops". No-one's accusing you of duping anyone. That's not the issue.
*However*, the fact is, when you're selling someone something, no matter the cost, the buyer must be 100% SATISFIED with their purchase, based on how the seller has described what they've bought. And clearly that's not the case here.
As soon as you became aware (after hearing said "pops" for yourself, on the YT video posted) that the LP you sold mike was NOT, *in his system* [that's the key bit], a "very quiet copy", you should've accepted that fact and instantly offered Mike a refund.
The bottom line is, for whatever reason, regardless of the visual condition of the record, he hasn't got what you sold him (i.e. a "very quiet copy"). That's the crux of the matter.
Therefore, based on that, I'd ask you to do the honourable thing and let Mike return the LP to you, for a full refund. As someone else said, this is simply one to take on the chin and put down to experience. What price for goodwill?:)
Marco.
AJSki2fly
26-10-2018, 06:10
I have never described anything as perfect,i don't remember hearing any ticks and even with the ticks just before the dead wax i don't consider this LP as faulty or slightly ahead of very good.I have not done Goldmine grading in the ad and i remarked that it is a very quiet pressing,which it is.
To the buyer questioning my trading/selling/overall standards and integrity:i have bought and sold more than one hundred mostly expensive audio and video gear throughout the years at avforums and i have not gotten a single negative feedback.The only person,who wanted a refund for something and behaved in suspiciously similar manner was banned by the moderators.If something is faulty in any way,i would describe it as such and price it as such.Also the grading standards of vinyl are still being debated and some records may play noise-free in one setup and not so well in other!
I have read through this thread with interest as I have purchased many records 2nd hand from many sources. IMO if you buy a record in a 2nd shop or record shop ungraded and effectively sold as seen then it’s up to the buyer to examine and decide whether it’s worth a punt. If purchased in a shop or online where graded and described then the record should meet the standard indicated. In fact this is the same for any goods, I.e. Ebay rules. Grading records is extremely hard for seller and buyer, however the buyer is not happy that it does not meet the original description then a refund should be made.
To be honest if I was paying £50 for a record described as very quiet, then that is what I would except, without crackles, pops or clicks. I personally would expect a refund if I asked for it. Come on Anton life’s too short, if your customer is not happy do the right thing and refund him.
Anton has made an offer of Goodwill which I'm considering.
Thanks to everyone who tried to help, much appreciated.
But please no more input from anyone not involved in the sale, I'm not wanting anyone to blot their copy book lol
***To be honest if I was paying £50 for a record described as very quiet, then that is what I would except, without crackles, pops or clicks***. I personally would expect a refund if I asked for it. Come on Anton life’s too short, if your customer is not happy do the right thing and refund him[/B].
I completely agree with the former, and the latter is the reasonable and honourable position to take, so let's hope that Anton does the right thing. I appreciate, however, that Mike wishes to draw a line under the matter now, so I'll close the thread accordingly.
Marco.
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