View Full Version : Electrostatic/Planar Speakers
jandl100
03-04-2018, 08:15
I'm a big fan of stats and panels and have owned lots, including hybrid designs with 'normal' cone bass units.
But I don't have any at the moment and have settled for a different kind of unconventional hybrid design for my main system speakers, so I've voted No.
Voted :)
Whilst I acknowledge what statics/panel speakers do well (and in some areas outperform box speakers), they're not really my thing, mainly because, to my ears, none I've heard so far get the bass right, which is massively important for how I listen to music - and what makes the type of music I listen to most, sound real.
It's a trade-off with statics/panels (present in ALL speakers), in order to excel in certain areas, mainly the midrange. If I listened differently and didn't have such wide tastes in music, which I seek to accurately reproduce as far as possible, and I could put up with their looks, it would be a different kettle of fish :cool:
Marco.My speakers will reset your head when it comes to bass and what a panel can do.
Tom has just been round and he knows. Jerry knows. A few others do.
If you read Martin Colloms review of the Duetta Signature he knew.
You have to hear it to believe it.
walpurgis
03-04-2018, 08:48
Yes. I've heard big Apogees.
Mine speakers will reset your head when it comes to bass and what a panel can do.
Tom has just been round and he knows. Jerry knows. A few others do.
If you read Martin Colloms review of the Duetta Signature he knew.
You have to hear it to believe it.
Lol - I don't doubt you, but of course I haven't heard it yet :)
It's not just about deep bass, though; it's about fast, sphincter-tight, VISCERAL, 'physical' bass, which you can FEEL, as well as hear - and more importantly SCALE, tunefulness (I detest plodding 'one note' bass), and AUTHORITY, plus for it to be CONTROLLED at high volume (not boomy in any way), so that a snare drum sounds like a SNARE DRUM [deep, tight with the requisite dynamic alacrity, which makes you blink when stick hits skin], rather than a soft, weedy, rounded-off poor, pissy-pants facsimile of such!
Am I fussy about bass? No, not really!!:D:lol:
Marco.
jandl100
03-04-2018, 09:25
There will be one HUGE grin on your face when you hear Justin's Aps, Marco. :D
Gityor arse down there!! :lol:
Lol - I don't doubt you, but of course I haven't heard it yet :)
It's not just about deep bass, though; it's about fast, sphincter-tight, VISCERAL, 'physical' bass, which you can FEEL, as well as hear - and more importantly SCALE, tunefulness (I detest plodding 'one note' bass), and AUTHORITY, plus for it to be CONTROLLED at high volume (not boomy in any way), so that a snare drum sounds like a SNARE DRUM [deep, tight with the requisite dynamic alacrity, which makes you blink when stick hits skin], rather than a soft, weedy, rounded-off poor, pissy-pants facsimile of such!
Am I fussy about bass? No, not really!!:D[emoji38]
Marco.All of that plus some of the best bass definition you have ever heard.
Christ I am sounding a bit full of myself and my speakers. But hey.
When you are free PM me for a visit. If Tom can come you can. And you should do Tom too. His Tannoys just might teach yours a bit of a lesson. But til you go you will never know (wink).
All of that plus some of the best bass definition you have ever heard.
Christ I am sounding a bit full of myself and my speakers. But hey.
When you are free PM me for a visit. If Tom can come you can. And you should do Tom too. His Tannoys just might teach yours a bit of a lesson. But til you go you will never know (wink).
Lol - nothing wrong with being confident! :D
Will do, as soon as my free time isn't being taken up with home improvements [moved from the kitchen now to hall, stairs, landing and bedrooms]! :doh:
It's not about "teaching lessons" (I often find that the best speakers of a specific type do some things better than mine, especially in another good system - that's just reality with any speakers, if one is honest); it's simply about hearing and enjoying different musical presentations, and perhaps learning something new :cool:
Marco.
paulf-2007
03-04-2018, 18:41
Well that would skew the result.much like any poll, ask the right question and get the right answer.
Lol - nothing wrong with being confident! :D
Will do, as soon as my free time isn't being taken up with home improvements [moved from the kitchen now to hall, stairs, landing and bedrooms]! :doh:
It's not about "teaching lessons" (I often find that the best speakers of a specific type do some things better than mine, especially in another good system - that's just reality with any speakers, if one is honest); it's simply about hearing and enjoying different musical presentations, and perhaps learning something new :cool:
Marco.Yeah. But every once in a while a "mind fuck" comes along.
That is rare, especially for seasoned audiophiles. But there is an element of that in mine. I know, because they consistently manage to put me in that frame of mind.
That said, I was way too involved in their creation, and am hence obviously biased. I just wanted what I wanted, but better than before. A lot of time and thought from the pair of us went into them. And rightfully (at least by my thinking) we're both proud of what we achieved, by the criterion written in our own books!:)
There are some good speakers out there. But for VFM versus performance, there's a lot that don't come close. A serious amount.
I didn't actually make them, and a lot of credit must go to both Jon and Graz down under, without whom they would not exist. Maximum respect.
Yeah sure... I'm always up for a "mind fuck" or two, even without chemical substances :eyebrows:
Marco.
Ninanina
09-04-2018, 18:17
Well the wood is now cut for the plinths for the Maggies and holes drilled to take the M6 threaded inserts
Colin had a nice large bit of pine he was going to throw out. He's going to put a few coats of satin varnish on the wood for me and I've got a little tester pot of oatmeal coloured paint for the metal brackets which will sort of match the speaker socks
All done for just a few pounds.. bargain :)
Ninanina
28-04-2018, 20:31
Still not got my plinths done as Colin has been too busy with other things... :( nightmare
The wood looks nice now it's varnished though and I've got all the stainless nuts and bolts needed to fix brackets to the wood and the UNC screws to fix them to the speakers
However I am still loving the Maggies sound even in their rubbish position.. Colin came round the other day and had a listen and he thinks they are very good as well.. :)
Sherwood
28-04-2018, 20:34
Still not got my plinths done as Colin has been too busy with other things... :( nightmare
The wood looks nice now it's varnished though and I've got all the stainless nuts and bolts needed to fix brackets to the wood and the UNC screws to fix them to the speakers
However I am still loving the Maggies sound even in their rubbish position.. Colin came round the other day and had a listen and he thinks they are very good as well.. :)
Get a move on Colin! :)
Ninanina
28-04-2018, 20:38
Get a move on Colin! :)
I know Geoff... it's a nightmare... he's just been too busy with all his cycling peeps :doh:
Ninanina
28-04-2018, 22:59
I love the sound my Maggies are producing.... they are now at low listening levels, as it's getting late, but they still sound very good.. I'm a convert to the Maggies sound.. I love their ease of producing sound at whatever levels I listen to .. definitely one of my best hifi purchases and for what I paid for them a complete hifi bargain ...:D
Ninanina
10-05-2018, 18:22
Plinths and brackets now all finished and painted so Colin just needs to come round to drill the final holes through the pine once we have placed them correctly... at last :doh:
Ninanina
17-05-2018, 03:48
Unfortunately Colin is not well at the moment so my plinths are going to have to wait...
Bksabath
27-05-2018, 19:19
I am looking here quite often my maggies need same 2
when it is going to happen ?
wishing well to Coilin no need to say
In the mean time big things are happening here
I had a couple of friends here listening to the Maggies in my system
One use to run an Hifi shop now closed other has just a couple of very good ears
We are going to build 2 sets of F5 turbos and they are going to be pretty good
But I am going to start a new tread for that
Still nice when some one that had HiFi shop tell you "I want a pair of amps like yours" Yes ?
Sherwood
28-05-2018, 04:57
I am looking here quite often my maggies need same 2
when it is going to happen ?
wishing well to Coilin no need to say
In the mean time big things are happening here
I had a couple of friends here listening to the Maggies in my system
One use to run an Hifi shop now closed other has just a couple of very good ears
We are going to build 2 sets of F5 turbos and they are going to be pretty good
But I am going to start a new tread for that
Still nice when some one that had HiFi shop tell you "I want a pair of amps like yours" Yes ?
I think just a couple is the norm! :rolleyes:
Ninanina
09-06-2018, 20:25
I am looking here quite often my maggies need same 2
when it is going to happen ?
wishing well to Coilin no need to say
Sandro they will hopefully be completed some time this week as Colin is feeling a bit better now, thanks for the well wishes
I will take a picture once the Maggies are fixed to them
Ninanina
15-07-2018, 00:23
Believe it or not my plinths are still not supporting my Maggies... it's a nightmare but it's all down to Colin not being that great at the moment...
However I still love the Maggie sound even in their rubbish placement..
I am completely hooked on their sound and I know there is more to come once they are correctly placed & supported ...
I absolutely love them and they are definitely my best ever hifi purchase :D
Maggie May - get some stands, Rod Stewart reference intentional!!!:)
Ninanina
21-07-2018, 22:07
Maggie May - get some stands, Rod Stewart reference intentional!!!:)
Indeed Justin :D
I have a pair of ESL 63s and they sound great. I added Gradient subwoofers with their active crossover and it sounds so good I can't imagine I could get better. I do have a large room and have plenty space behind the speakers. If you liked 57s you will find 63s even better and without the incredibly narrow distribution. Currently I am driving these with a pair of Quad 303s one for the high range and one for the low. when I got the Gradients they were mis wired so that the two speakers were acting against each other.Even with these out of circuit the 63s sounded much better through the crossover I guess taking Low Frequency load off them helps with clarity and detail.
They are big even more so sat on the Gradients so if you don't have a big room they may not work so well for you.
Caber10:)
It is funny how opinions differ, I heard the 63s at a friend's house and was left with the impression that the instruments were all distributed along axes central to each speaker, at various positions on those axes up to a couple of feet in front and behind each speaker.
It is funny how opinions differ, I heard the 63s at a friend's house and was left with the impression that the instruments were all distributed along axes central to each speaker, at various positions on those axes up to a couple of feet in front and behind each speaker.
So all 'left and right' with no central image? Sounds like they might have been wired out of phase with one another - but I'm sure you would have checked that.
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 18:17
Can I ask anyone 'in the know' whether a Croft amplifier of 45 - 50 watts will drive the Maggies?
Sherwood
14-09-2018, 18:30
Can I ask anyone 'in the know' whether a Croft amplifier of 45 - 50 watts will drive the Maggies?
I know I will sound like a broken record on this, but Maggies only come alive (IMHO) when driven by a high current amplifier. I am a big fan of Croft amps and had some myself in the past.
Maggies can sound fine when driven by valve amps at low to moderate levels, but struggle to cope on musical peaks or to produce a convincing bass performance. I would suggest that you try and borrow such an amp to reveal the true potential of this speaker.
I don't know what your budget is, but something like a Quad 909 would work.
Geoff
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 18:38
I know I will sound like a broken record on this, but Maggies only come alive (IMHO) when driven by a high current amplifier. I am a big fan of Croft amps and had some myself in the past.
Maggies can sound fine when driven by valve amps at low to moderate levels, but struggle to cope on musical peaks or to produce a convincing bass performance. I would suggest that you try and borrow such an amp to reveal the true potential of this speaker.
I don't know what your budget is, but something like a Quad 909 would work.
Geoff
Thanks Geoff
So the Croft won't work then ?
I'll maybe take a look at the Quad
Sherwood
14-09-2018, 19:18
Thanks Geoff
So the Croft won't work then ?
I'll maybe take a look at the Quad
By all means give it a try, it may just work, but my experience has been that most valve amps are not a great match. I mentioned the Quad as something that is easily sourced, but there are other options. What is your budget?
Geoff
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 19:27
By all means give it a try, it may just work, but my experience has been that most valve amps are not a great match. I mentioned the Quad as something that is easily sourced, but there are other options. What is your budget?
Geoff
Thanks for your post Geoff
I guess my budget would be £2 - £3k and I'd really prefer an integrated to be honest
What amp do you use with your Maggies ? you may have already told me but I've got a head like a sieve :doh:
walpurgis
14-09-2018, 19:31
I reckon the 909 could be good too. Maybe best used with the 99 pre-amp though. Both items seem well liked and have been well reviewed. I have heard the 909, but not long enough to give a proper opinion.
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 19:37
I reckon the 909 could be good too. Maybe best used with the 99 pre-amp though. Both items seem well liked and have been well reviewed. I have heard the 909, but not long enough to give a proper opinion.
Thanks 2nd Geoff :eek:
The 909 and 99 are certainly not the most expensive amps and fairly readily available on the used market. It's a long time since I've owned anything Quad; the last was a 33/303 with the ESL 57's and I really enjoyed that match
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 19:46
It's my birthday next week so I'm planning a little treat for myself, speaker wise of course :D
Sherwood
14-09-2018, 19:54
It's my birthday next week so I'm planning a little treat for myself, speaker wise of course :D
Would there be an "M" involved?
Sherwood
14-09-2018, 20:08
Thanks for your post Geoff
I guess my budget would be £2 - £3k and I'd really prefer an integrated to be honest
What amp do you use with your Maggies ? you may have already told me but I've got a head like a sieve :doh:
I am currently using a pair of Nuprime STA-9s in monoblock mode. This allows me to use very short speaker cables as the amps are positioned underneath my Maggies and connected via long xlr cables. The Nuprimes deliver 290w per channel in monoblock mode and really get a grip on the Maggies. However, I originally drove them with an Odyssey Power amp that I commissioned from the USA manufacturer, This is a high power high current power amp widely regarded as being an excellent match for the Maggies. It is as good as the Nuprimes but less convenient in terms of my domestic arrangements.
I did consider the an integrated amp and was very impressed by the Anthem 225 model. It is now discontinued but may still be available. Parasound also produce some suitable amps though when I auditioned one I thought it just a little bright for my taste.
Geoff
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 20:10
Would there be an "M" involved?
Yes indeed there would be Geoff... and probably a 7 in there as well.... :D
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 20:15
Thanks for the recommendations on amps Geoff...
Certainly initially I will run with the Supernait 2 but may well look into the alternatives you mentioned :)
walpurgis
14-09-2018, 20:19
Nah. These are what you want Bev. Fabulous, I love big Altecs. Look where they are located.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Altec-Model-19-Loudspeakers-Ship-Worldwide/123345243321?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC. MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3D230a8 847d235473d8a3901a9ecd3f316%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D 1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D331471170530%26itm%3D1233452433 21&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982
http://i64.tinypic.com/2a8gc5k.jpg
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 20:34
Nah. These are what you want Bev. Fabulous, I love big Altecs. Look where they are located.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Altec-Model-19-Loudspeakers-Ship-Worldwide/123345243321?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC. MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3D230a8 847d235473d8a3901a9ecd3f316%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D 1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D331471170530%26itm%3D1233452433 21&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982
http://i64.tinypic.com/2a8gc5k.jpg
They look lovely Geoff but £4k would really push me
When I played the Rega's for the chap yesterday they sounded just lovely BUT I could hear the 'box'
Since I've owned my old Maggies I've not listened to any box type speaker and I never thought I could hear the 'box' that people keep going on about when comparing panel vs box speakers but I actually can hear it and I didn't like it so panel speakers are definitely for me
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 20:38
I wish I could accommodate a pair of Quad electrostatics but I just can't so some more 'M's' is definitely the way to go for me, I love them to bits... :D
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 21:09
I can't believe it but having sold my other speakers I am now down to just one pair which are probably 30 years old... amazing really but it makes me feel quite 'naked'.... :lol:
I quite liked having 'surplus' speakers hanging around :eek:
jandl100
14-09-2018, 21:16
Maggie 1.7 on the way, Bev?
Awesome speakers
- beg, steal or borrow a genuine muscle amp just to see what they can do together! Geoff (Sherwood) knows what he's on about. :)
Ninanina
14-09-2018, 21:21
Maggie 1.7 on the way, Bev?
Awesome speakers
- beg, steal or borrow a genuine muscle amp just to see what they can do together! Geoff (Sherwood) knows what he's on about. :)
Indeed Jerry... could be .7's or the 1.7i's ... not sure yet
As you say I will definitely try a "muscle amp" with them at some point... I know Geoff is an expert where Maggies are concerned..
Audio Al
14-09-2018, 23:34
amazing really but it makes me feel quite 'naked'....
:worthless:
amazing really but it makes me feel quite 'naked'....
:worthless:
Keep the thought Al. as a thought [emoji23]
Bksabath
16-09-2018, 20:03
Indeed Jerry... could be .7's or the 1.7i's ... not sure yet
As you say I will definitely try a "muscle amp" with them at some point... I know Geoff is an expert where Maggies are concerned..
I would save up for the 1.7 as the .7 would be a step back from the MG1
Sherwood
16-09-2018, 21:19
I would save up for the 1.7 as the .7 would be a step back from the MG1
Not so!!!!
The 0.7 may be a little smaller than the MG1, but it is superior in terms of frequency bandwidth, speed and detail. It may not seem so on first auditioning as Maggies take a while to run in and an older model like the MG1 may sound smoother on first auditioning.
Yes, the 1.7 has a more extended bass response, but it also requires a bigger room to perform of its best.
Ideally, one will hear the respective models before purchasing, and with the intended amplification!
Geoff
Bksabath
17-09-2018, 04:30
Not so!!!!
The 0.7 may be a little smaller than the MG1, but it is superior in terms of frequency bandwidth, speed and detail. It may not seem so on first auditioning as Maggies take a while to run in and an older model like the MG1 may sound smoother on first auditioning.
Yes, the 1.7 has a more extended bass response, but it also requires a bigger room to perform of its best.
Ideally, one will hear the respective models before purchasing, and with the intended amplification!
Geoff
You are 100% right of course room is the limiting factor, amplifiers are not so much of a problem if one can use a soldering iron :D
I had a few listening section to both and to the 3.7 as well and went for the 1.7 because of the room and price factor.
IMO the 1.7 are so much better than .7 if one consider the £1000 price difference but as you say the most important thing is the room
Sherwood
17-09-2018, 07:52
You are 100% right of course room is the limiting factor, amplifiers are not so much of a problem if one can use a soldering iron :D
I had a few listening section to both and to the 3.7 as well and went for the 1.7 because of the room and price factor.
IMO the 1.7 are so much better than .7 if one consider the £1000 price difference but as you say the most important thing is the room
I went for the 1.7s because when I bought them the 0.7 had not been invented. I had previously owned MG12s and was very happy with them, even in very large rooms. If I was buying now, I would definitely be considering the 07 model.
Apart from being very demanding in terms of amplification, the real problem about buying Maggies in the UK is the huge mark up on US pricing. Even with this mark up they are one of the true bargains in hifi today (IMHO).
Geoff
Sherwood
22-09-2018, 13:48
So did the HI-FI Fairy leave anything nice for your B'Day?
Geoff
Having driven Sound Labs with both tube and solid state.
I learned it is the impedance curve, the amp has to have enough reserves to get through it with out burning it up. My 20w per side tube amp did better than my 355 RMS watt per side Compleatly upgraded Pioneer Spec 1. In a lot of ways. Tubes seem less effected by the rise and fall of AC resistance common with electrostatic speakers.
Light Dependant Resistor
25-09-2018, 22:17
Having driven Sound Labs with both tube and solid state.
I learned it is the impedance curve, the amp has to have enough reserves to get through it with out burning it up. My 20w per side tube amp did better than my 355 RMS watt per side Compleatly upgraded Pioneer Spec 1. In a lot of ways. Tubes seem less effected by the rise and fall of AC resistance common with electrostatic speakers.
Electrostatics exhibit wide impedance range from 2 ohms to over 20 ohms https://www.stereophile.com/content/quad-esl-63-loudspeaker-measurements
so they are suitable with either solid state that exhibits preference for power into lower impedance loads, or valve that exhibits preference for power into high impedance loads.
ESL's being somewhere between the two amplifier types.
The Quad 303 happens to be excellent with ESL's http://www.hembrow.eu/personal/quadesl57.html
Hi Chris,
Good to see you popping in again! Hope you're well?:)
Could you please PM me with an update on the LDR? Cheers!:cool:
Marco.
Yes, the spec 1 was ok down to 4 ohms but Sound Labs go down to 2 ohms at times, making the amp hotter than normal.
Just imagine a Pass Labs class A with large Sound Labs!
You could heat your house!
Ninanina
26-09-2018, 18:02
So did the HI-FI Fairy leave anything nice for your B'Day?
Geoff
Actually no Geoff... however I am having a listen to the .7 and 1.7i's next week so watch this space :D
Sherwood
26-09-2018, 18:04
Actually no Geoff... however I am having a listen to the .7 and 1.7i's next week so watch this space :D
Which dealer?
Ninanina
26-09-2018, 18:22
Paul at Hifi Lounge
It's about 120 miles for me but there are not many dealers about
Sherwood
26-09-2018, 20:14
Paul at Hifi Lounge
It's about 120 miles for me but there are not many dealers about
That's a coincidence. I had a few home demos from them of amps to drive my 1.7s. They are about the same distance for me, though south in my case.
I presume you will bring your Supernait with you for the demo. If possible, I would see if you can also hear the .7s and 1.7s with something like a Bryston power amp. I am not suggesting the Bryston as a mate for the Maggies (it is possible to get suitably grunty power amps for much less) but it will give you a good idea of what Maggies can sound like when paired with a really powerful "engine"!
BTW. If you go for the .7s, don't buy the horrible oval stands. They are rubbish!
Geoff
Sherwood
29-09-2018, 18:10
Actually no Geoff... however I am having a listen to the .7 and 1.7i's next week so watch this space :D
If your Supernait doesn't gel with the Maggies, this might be a good option.
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?60377-IC-Quad-Artera-Stereo-Power-Amp
I understand it is an improvement over the QUAD 909.
Geoff
Ninanina
30-09-2018, 20:55
If your Supernait doesn't gel with the Maggies, this might be a good option.
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?60377-IC-Quad-Artera-Stereo-Power-Amp
I understand it is an improvement over the QUAD 909.
Geoff
Thanks Geoff
I did see the Quad for sale but I think I'll give the Supernait a good trial before deciding against it
As Colin is not well at the moment I've had to put on hold going to see Paul for the short term
I also don't like the look of the oval stands for the .7.... however I have a sneaky suspicion I may prefer the 1.7i's anyway.... we will see ;)
Anyway I can't wait to hear them both as I'm sure they will be very good if my MG1's are anything to go by...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.