View Full Version : I feel terrible....... Trolls on Forums
Dynamics
16-04-2017, 17:56
I've been on a different forum for 6 months , can't say which I don't think for breaking the policy here. On it I've helped over a 100 newbie people out with hi fi recommendations. I'd posted around a 1000 posts.
I had a troll which they didn't do anything about and I lost it in the last few days, and found their moderators aggravating me too in the last day. I'm a bit shamed to admit I lost it. I even sent the owner the troll message to me admitting he was trolling me. In the end I was banned and the troll stayed there.
I'm not a nasty person , I love hi fi, but I feel absolutely terrible at the moment. I've been mentally unwell with depression for some time and have tried a number of times to kill myself in the last few years with money and job worries even though at times I've done ok, I haven't for some time now.
I feel right now I want to drink myself into oblivion and throw that bloody hi fi off my balcony and me with it. All a load worth of newish pmc 25 series, cyrus signature stuff and chord cables. In fact I feel like I want to give it away for the bad feeling connected with it. I just can't believe these people on that forum would be so callous and ungrateful when I'd helped so many of their readers out.
walpurgis
16-04-2017, 18:24
That's a shame Simon. I'm sure we can cheer you up. Stick with us matey!
Depression's a bugger. I had that many years ago. Fortunately, it just faded away (if that's the right term).
Bigman80
16-04-2017, 18:26
Simon, youre in the right place here. This is a great forum with a lot of really great people.
Dont give up and keep going with us. Put on a really lively album and just let it get you going again. Trolling isnt an issue here and the moderators are excellent at keeping order when its occasional breached with a dodgy comment.
Feel better, tomorrow is a new day.
Oliver
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
Wouldnt worry about it Simon. You wont get that here. Everyone is welcome who behave well and are friendly. You do get a problem the come first to a mod. Whoever your comfortable with.... keep the chin up and stay off the booze mate. Worst thing for depression:)
Simon,
I admire your candour regarding the identity of the forum, but as the moderators there seem to be incapable of dealing with the trolling to mutual satisfaction, then I would just shrug my shoulders and walk away. No forum or on-line social medium is worth getting upset about and causing you to get depressed.
Just say "sod 'em", make a cup of tea and sit down and enjoy some music on your perfectly good system!
Stryder5
16-04-2017, 18:40
I've been on a different forum for 6 months , can't say which I don't think for breaking the policy here. On it I've helped over a 100 newbie people out with hi fi recommendations. I'd posted around a 1000 posts.
I had a troll which they didn't do anything about and I lost it in the last few days, and found their moderators aggravating me too in the last day. I'm a bit shamed to admit I lost it. I even sent the owner the troll message to me admitting he was trolling me. In the end I was banned and the troll stayed there.
I'm not a nasty person , I love hi fi, but I feel absolutely terrible at the moment. I've been mentally unwell with depression for some time and have tried a number of times to kill myself in the last few years with money and job worries even though at times I've done ok, I haven't for some time now.
I feel right now I want to drink myself into oblivion and throw that bloody hi fi off my balcony and me with it. All a load worth of newish pmc 25 series, cyrus signature stuff and chord cables. In fact I feel like I want to give it away for the bad feeling connected with it. I just can't believe these people on that forum would be so callous and ungrateful when I'd helped so many of their readers out.
I feel for you and perhaps no words can help, but please stick with it.
In life we have to deal with people who have strange psyche and questionable manners, never easy.
All the best
Gary
Audio Al
16-04-2017, 18:51
Just say they are :wanker: then wave your :booty: in their faces
and join in the :grouphug: here
:D
Dynamics
16-04-2017, 19:02
Thank you all for comments which has made me feel quite a bit better and cheered me up. But as an 'Essex boy' myself (colchester/wivenhoe) your one audio al made me laugh. I don't think I've seen emojis like that before. Lol.
But then people from Essex are very down to earth and say it how it is, so I admire that.
Man, don't let the bastards grind you down - while you are still standing they lose.
None of that crap here so don't worry, post away.
But then people from Essex are very down to earth and say it how it is
:yesbruv: and as for that other lot, f**k 'em
hifinutt
16-04-2017, 19:17
sorry to hear that simon . don`t be disheartened . people are often falling out with each other in the hi fi world . its easter , and I am sure many of those folks who you have helped will appreciate it . one of the great audiophiles on one forum with a wonderful reputation got banned just because he talked about one brand a lot and folks thought it was schilling . it wasn`t but the damage was done .
hopefully you can still enjoy that chord and cyrus and pmc equipment and enjoy aos :)
at the end of the day its just a hifi forum,in the grand scheme of your life it really doesn't matter and should not get you down,there are much more important things to cherish and focus on.
chill :)
It is stupidly simple really.
If you don't like them, f*ck them, and move on.
Sorted:)
RobbieGong
16-04-2017, 20:21
at the end of the day its just a hifi forum,in the grand scheme of your life it really doesn't matter and should not get you down,there are much more important things to cherish and focus on.
chill :)
+1 Keep ya head Simon, try not to let life get you down. Hang where there's good energy and good people - like here (most of the time :whistle: :D )
and for gods sake dont buy a 2m black!:lol:
southall-1998
16-04-2017, 20:42
Continue, on doing the things that makes you feel happy. It works for me!
S.
I do not know the official definition of 'troll', but I get the impression it is someone who follows and persecutes another.
Unfortunately there are people who have such a low commitment to living fully that they tend to persecute others in an attempt to boost self esteem. The net seems to have given another route for venting this sort of behaviour, and the young in particular are suffering greatly as a result.
I don't wish to be indulgent in the light of your disclosure, but FWIW I have been persecuted all of my life by group behaviour, and it has led to my having to extensively study the psychology of it for years.
I am a loner as a result of these experiences, and that is a hard position to be in, but I think maintaining one's own integrity is far better than to join in socially acceptable bullying as a means of getting by, but so many other people do not.
I have also found that, as a naturally helpful person, I often become a consumable resource for some people, and with little gratitude., and they are not worth my help.
You know that you are a valid person, and you do not need the approval of bullies to define that worth.
There is an old Zen saying;
"When others attack you, and you are a taught string, their knife will cut, but if you are a limp string, their knife will not cut".
Spectral Morn
16-04-2017, 21:16
Hi Simon, I have moved this thread to Abstract Chat where I feel it belongs, along with adding a little clarification to the thread title.
I will comment once I read the thread.
Spectral Morn
16-04-2017, 21:35
Hi Simon
Sadly your experience is not unique and often nice folks who only want to help fall foul of the resident bully boys or clique of such, the in crowd. Who knows why, only they know why they behave that way but they are the disgrace not the likes of yourself.
My first foray into audio forums turned out to be a mistake, in ignorance I joined Zero Gain (now changed hands) and I did as you did tried to help, and wrote the odd review to find myself attacked often and viciously both by members, the mods and the site owner. Was there any help ? Nope. Did the site owner care ? Nope. So I left and with the original site owners agreement all my posts were deleted, the next owner restored them :(
What was my crime ? Being a subjectivist. Frankly the local objectivist bullies, trolls and down right nasty people picked up their pitch forks and drove me off.
Now if I had know I certainly would not have joined a majority objectivist forum but I didn't know and a few of these individuals didn't like it that I was a Christian.
Anyway I left Zero Gain, and joined AOS and this is the main forum I post on. I am a member of a few others but this is by far the most friendly and welcoming forum. A few out there will disagree with that but they view here through a poisoned twisted set of glasses.
As others have said drink does not help depression so don't seek solace in a glass it will only drag you down and if you feel you need it ask your Dr for help. Get out for walks, do things you enjoy and please don't let things get bad reach out and ask for help.
I have to say I have struggled with grief as a result of my parents no longer being alive and other issues and the Mods and Marco here have been a massive help to me, as have others in the real world. AoS has been a life line and I hope if we can help you, provide you with a new audio home then let us be that help, that home.
AoS isn't perfect and at times things get a bit heated here, but we the Mods try to keep it on Ethos and friendly. If you have any problems then as Grant says pm a Mod and have a chat and we will see what can be done.
I am sorry for your experience elsewhere, there are folks here who understand and have been through that experience.
I hope things get brighter for you. God Bless
I really hope you enjoy this excellent forum. Everyone here that I have had the pleasure of interacting with are intelligent, informed, and very friendly people. I hope you find peace very soon.
Dynamics
16-04-2017, 22:12
That's a really nice reply. Thank you and god bless too.
I know the feeling, forums are supposed to be fun! I've been on several, and have ditched them all to hang here. These guys are great! You can find some genuine intelligent conversation here!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
stairpost
17-04-2017, 20:21
Hang around in here for a while and you'll soon be back in love with hifi and feel like you are among friends :)
Have a laugh at their expense,let them see their best shot has no effect [leaves them with nothing left and nowhere to go]and your still standing.Have a laugh with members on here ,self effacing and two way ,hopefully will lift the spirits.Leave these people behind ,where they belong.Cheers Mick
archiesdad
19-04-2017, 15:04
Just flip them the bird and move on, they have in fact done you a favour as you have now landed here, the futures bright, the futures AoS. Happy listening. Martin.
HackneyRF
20-04-2017, 22:08
I thought it really brave of you to share your feelings here Simon, many people bottle up their feelings of depression and desperation. Know that you are not alone mate. Many of us are at some point or another troubled by the black dog. Remember there is help out there should you need it.
Sorry to hear of your troubles on the other forum. None of that here. Sure you get disagreements from time to time but it's never unpleasant. Very nice folks on AoS. Stick around you'll enjoy it.
Cheers
Loz
Bigman80
20-04-2017, 22:59
If you have any doubt about the type of people who frequent this forum, have a look at the thread regarding "Sovereign" its like a family on here. We may disagree, argue even but when it matters everyone comes together.
Thats how I feel anyway.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
I thought it really brave of you to share your feelings here Simon, many people bottle up their feelings of depression and desperation. Know that you are not alone mate. Many of us are at some point or another troubled by the black dog. Remember there is help out there should you need it.
+1 (with bells on). It's obvious that Simon found it cathartic to 'let it all out', which I think reflects well on the close-knit 'vibe' and friendly community spirit we've got here on AoS, so I hope he feels better after expending his emotions, and that his head is in a much better place now :)
Rest assured that no-one would *ever* experience here what Simon did on that other forum, as the very second any of the mods or I knew about the treatment he was receiving, it would've been dealt with and those responsible banned. Furthermore, none of the mods here would have instigated or exacerbated the situation, as appears to have happened with Simon on the forum concerned.
Simon, I would ask that you reveal on which forum you experienced your terrible ordeal, as we have no fixed policy on such matters, save the discussion of one particular place (Hifi Subjectivist), and I suspect that's not where this happened.
I myself recently experienced quite shocking treatment on another forum, the details of which and forum involved I most certainly will be mentioning here shortly. I just need to collate all the necessary information I've saved and type it up.
Marco.
The Black Adder
21-04-2017, 08:04
Hi Simon.
Thank you for sharing your deepest feelings. It's an honour to have you here as a member.
Rest assured, we kick out anyone Trolling seriously quickly. Stay with us, we are a friendly bunch. I always see AOS like being in a pub circled with friends and having a great time. If you have any agro just let one of us know. :)
Sometimes some threads can get a little heated but it's at that point where common sense jumps in to know when to walk away from it. Grudges should be left at the door.
We like to share our knowledge here too and there are so many here who are incredibly knowledgeable so if you have any questions, just ask. :)
Sit back and enjoy AOS... it's a top place :)
If you have any doubt about the type of people who frequent this forum, have a look at the thread regarding "Sovereign" its like a family on here. We may disagree, argue even but when it matters everyone comes together.
Thats how I feel anyway.
Nice one, Oliver.
Glad that's how you feel, as we try hard to engender those feelings amongst the membership, which we'd like to think are experienced by all the regulars who participate on AoS and put something of themselves into the community, and don't just see AoS as 'another hi-fi forum', from which to glean certain information (take), without also giving something positive back.
The members who do that, and go the extra mile, are ultimately those who will be rewarded themselves (with help and support from others here when needed), and truly 'get' what AoS is all about! :)
So if you're a newbie here, or an infrequent visitor, and want to 'feel the love' too, as it were, then embrace the community aspect of AoS, and go and meet other members in real life, through bake-offs or whatever [get to know the faces behind the names], and help others in any way when you can, as that's ultimately how you'll get the most out of AoS.
Marco.
Grudges should be left at the door.
Indeed, and interesting you should mention that, Jo, given what's just happened to me on a certain other forum ;)
Some folk appear to never let them go, and move on..... More on that later!
Marco.
WESTLOWER
21-04-2017, 08:32
Simon, it's not nice to hear someone struggling, rest assured AoS can offer you some calm. It's supposed to be an enjoyable hobby and remember fundamentally music never lets you down (Prince's wilderness years did let me down though!). I hope you find some peace with the help of a few Parishioners here. Life's too bloody short to worry about shite you experienced on "another forum"
They are a good bunch on here and a tighter community than others. "Keep on Keeping on" Simon. Audio Als right Booolax to 'em :upyours:. :ner:
Dynamics
21-04-2017, 11:20
Hello Marco, it was a bit cathartic I suppose and as you said. I have tried to get help but largely it doesn't exist in the sphere of the NHS. I suppose I should have spent the money on private help rather than hi fi, but I don't know if private help could sort it too. My issues are more problematic than I'd care to say, but this is probably going off the point.
Maybe it's me and I have to look at how I can get annoyed sometimes but I don't feel it was very nice to spend ages helping people and then get rejected. Maybe forums are not for me, but I will play it very carefully and circumspectly from now on, as to debating with people for the sake of discussion (and being wrongly seen as being trying to enrage argument by some, which isn't the case)
I was on avforums and the guy who runs it just seems to do it for the sake of his business but he has no interest in people helping people out for free. A lot of the people say things like decent hi fi is just as good as spending £20 on a hi fi dock, a slight exaggeration but I'm not far off! His name is Stuart Wright. Largely, not to blow my own trumpet, the kit I have and had before is a lot better than most on that forum so they maybe thought I was a hi fi snob. I was saying such things as cables make a difference, only for members to rubbish firms like chord and others and I told them to stop doing it as people's jobs could be affected by people who rubbish them but have never actually heard their products and if others believe what these people say. The owners did not do so and I found out on speaking to their editors (Phil Hinton) that he believes all cabling is 'snake oil', so they let these members carry on spouting rubbish. But it was more than rubbish, it was a concerted effort of inexperienced people to rubbish cable firms business, that exist because people must think they are good, as why are people buying their products. Then I was told by 10-20 people I must be wrong and hearing bias. I don't even work in the industry too! It didn't just extend to cables either but budget versus quality audiophile components. The survey on this forum shows that almost all people with decent kit shows that quality cabling does matter. What avforums are saying is use kef blades with 99p per metre spewker wire and believing it's no different from buying proprietary speaker cables. It's unbelievable as a forum the people think this, and I suspect they don't own decent hi fi.
I've been on forums before and if ever you have a strong view, you get shot down. I hate this, as people have no idea what's on the persons intentions. On one forum called cyrusunofficial I had to leave as I had very bad trolls even calling me offensive names, and all such members are still there. It's like a clique of very few people who chat with each other and reject, as a collective, people who have a different opinion. I think when some people loose a debate they tend to go towards offence as the only way they can deal with it. But I won't be doing much debating on here to try and not attract these people to cause offence. These are the real trolls and people who hide behind keyboards and not me. If you debate, a person looses the argument or debate, and then they cause offence, these are the trolls for me. And these forum owners do nothing about it which is worrying to.
Our posts crossed Simon, and what you describe is well documented in group behaviour, and now we even have the widely used expression "Groupthink".
When challenged, most people will adhere to a 'group norm' regardless of it validity.
This is a problem for people like me who seek truth, placing that objective above other personal needs
The phenomenon which you have experienced is not unique to audio forums, it is in fact a universal truth.
I have mentioned that I have been persecuted all my life, this extending throughout my career, and its roots seem to be in the human predicament.
We are an insecure species because we have a society in which competition for survival needs is pre-eminent.
Our self development is done 'on hoof' amidst this, and we are constantly having to improvise our strategies for survival.
The result is that we all tend to have low integration personalities because we do not have time to (metaphorically), put all the pages in the right place, all the books in the right order, and clean up everything afterwards making sure there are no 'loose ends' not dealt with.
So we end up with 'erroneous zones'; areas of what we believe, and which are faulty in that they are incomplete and inappropriate in some cases. This can lead to prejudices, the most obvious of which are the ones now outcast; racism, anti-gayism et al.
But there are also numerous other smaller ones which we all have, and whilst googling yesterday I came across "Attribution bias" and it is really illuminating, exposing the way that we may be biased without knowing it.
For eg. a simple one, we may attribute our own success to effort and skill, but when another achieves we may say he has privileged circumstances, and so it goes on.
In essence I am saying that many peoples behaviour is not all thought out and the result of integrated thinking, it is often the result of 'left overs' from other dominant factors in their lives.
I am not excusing this behaviour, and I have agonised over my experiences to the extremity of self doubt, but it will continue, and we have to learn to be as the old Zen statement recommends; 'a limp piece of string when the sharp knife comes our way', rather than 'a taught piece which the knife easily cuts'.
I seem to have been ridiculed for most of my life, and for most of my individual choices, even when often those choices have placed me well ahead of a group.
Your validity and worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas.
Regarding bullying on audio forums, and I hope the moderators will not delete this, I expressed the view on the HUG site that when I changed my AVI S2000MP pre for the ATC SCA2 pre, I could hear a difference.
The owner of the site immediately ridiculed this, and then sent me a PM saying that I had been given three infraction points for posting my statement.
I then received several PMs from other members, and one said something like;
"What next. detention, or lines".
Two years later the owner of the site posted with great exclamation that he was horrified because he could now hear a difference between two well spec'd amps.
I wrote to him asking him to apologise to me and remove my 'infraction points', but received no reply. This is disgraceful arrogant and impolite behaviour.
Haselsh1
21-04-2017, 11:56
A really nice thread this one. I do so hope that Simon's head and thoughts are now in a better place as I have thirty years experience of this shit and it is so bloody difficult at times. This forum is the place I have chosen to be most of the time but when my thoughts are not so good I stay away for a while. I do though always end up back here as there is always some nutter there to put a smile back on my face. Another really good point about this forum is that it doesn't just have to be about hi-fi. For that I am so grateful.
;)
Boyse6748
21-04-2017, 15:24
A really nice thread this one. I do so hope that Simon's head and thoughts are now in a better place as I have thirty years experience of this shit and it is so bloody difficult at times. This forum is the place I have chosen to be most of the time but when my thoughts are not so good I stay away for a while. I do though always end up back here as there is always some nutter there to put a smile back on my face. Another really good point about this forum is that it doesn't just have to be about hi-fi. For that I am so grateful.
;)
This is possibly the best post I've had the pleasure to read... well done you lot.
As for Simon, some of us on this forum know exactly where your coming from.... never been trolled, but certainly suffered from depression after being diagnosed with Throat Cancer.
What makes me happy is the support and expert advice you get from this forum, when you think all is lost. Never encountered such support.
Mind you...... don't mention Tidal, as there are many Round Black Stuff aficionados on this forum (as I am) but the responses always give me a smile and never a real bad word..... just opinions.
Only a member of a little over a year but so enjoyable.
I can only say Welcome, you will enjoy !!!!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
anthonyTD
21-04-2017, 15:57
Realy sorry to read this Simon,
All I can say is, you wont get that treatment here on AOS, as its not tolerated, and certainly not condoned!
AOS' unlike most of the other major HI FI related forums out there' is packed with decent like minded people, ready to offer their help, and experiences on all things Audio related, and dare I say is noted for its off topic areas too.:eyebrows: So a big welcome from me, and all at AOS.:)
I've been on a different forum for 6 months , can't say which I don't think for breaking the policy here. On it I've helped over a 100 newbie people out with hi fi recommendations. I'd posted around a 1000 posts.
I had a troll which they didn't do anything about and I lost it in the last few days, and found their moderators aggravating me too in the last day. I'm a bit shamed to admit I lost it. I even sent the owner the troll message to me admitting he was trolling me. In the end I was banned and the troll stayed there.
I'm not a nasty person , I love hi fi, but I feel absolutely terrible at the moment. I've been mentally unwell with depression for some time and have tried a number of times to kill myself in the last few years with money and job worries even though at times I've done ok, I haven't for some time now.
I feel right now I want to drink myself into oblivion and throw that bloody hi fi off my balcony and me with it. All a load worth of newish pmc 25 series, cyrus signature stuff and chord cables. In fact I feel like I want to give it away for the bad feeling connected with it. I just can't believe these people on that forum would be so callous and ungrateful when I'd helped so many of their readers out.
magiccarpetride
21-04-2017, 16:42
I've been on a different forum for 6 months , can't say which I don't think for breaking the policy here. On it I've helped over a 100 newbie people out with hi fi recommendations. I'd posted around a 1000 posts.
I had a troll which they didn't do anything about and I lost it in the last few days, and found their moderators aggravating me too in the last day. I'm a bit shamed to admit I lost it. I even sent the owner the troll message to me admitting he was trolling me. In the end I was banned and the troll stayed there.
I'm not a nasty person , I love hi fi, but I feel absolutely terrible at the moment. I've been mentally unwell with depression for some time and have tried a number of times to kill myself in the last few years with money and job worries even though at times I've done ok, I haven't for some time now.
I feel right now I want to drink myself into oblivion and throw that bloody hi fi off my balcony and me with it. All a load worth of newish pmc 25 series, cyrus signature stuff and chord cables. In fact I feel like I want to give it away for the bad feeling connected with it. I just can't believe these people on that forum would be so callous and ungrateful when I'd helped so many of their readers out.
The shield of anonymity seems to give superpowers to people with evil mental disposition. They then purposefully seek people who they can sniff out as being good natured, well mannered. Their ultimate goal is to destroy such people.
Don't regard them. They are stewing in their own toxic sauce of hatred. They are eating up their own hearts, and there is nothing you can do about it. I know it is easier said than done to not pay any attention to miscreants, but there are tricks that can help you actually do it. For example, I have a blanket explanation for any vile, overtly toxic and vicious ad hominem attack I witness online -- I always dismiss it with a wave of my hand telling myself: "Another pimple faced frustrated twelve year old loser whose only joy in life is to sit in their parent's basement and make prank calls!"
Believe me, picturing the frustrated pimple faced twelve year old loser doing it really helps diffuse any mental anguish. Try it!
Yes Alex, it is persecutor and victim roles.
The persecutors like to bully others, probably chosen for their sensitivity and self effacing nature, and I suspect that you are right about them stewing in their own toxic source.
They almost certainly do it to boost their self esteem, they not having enough 'stick' to apply themselves to anything constructive, and so they attempt to destroy others' attempts to so do.
At the end of the first year of my apprenticeship I came first in producing a unipivot pick up arm which rested an aluminium '1/2" hole' on a 1/8" point. Another apprentice came up to it and hit it hard the arm down on the point with a ball pane hammer. You can imagine the results.
jandl100
21-04-2017, 17:28
Well done, Simon, for posting about your problems.
You have my sympathy and best wishes.
I've been on hifi forums for a little over 10 years now, and have been on the receiving end of some severe and hateful trolling.
It's easy to want to respond and justify your position, but it has become clear to me that it is often the best thing just to walk away. Online trolls are often the nastiest kind of bully - if you reply and stand up for yourself they respond by just hitting you harder.
You need to find a space where you are comfortable and among like-minded people. Welcome to AOS. :)
magiccarpetride
21-04-2017, 18:22
Yes Alex, it is persecutor and victim roles.
The persecutors like to bully others, probably chosen for their sensitivity and self effacing nature, and I suspect that you are right about them stewing in their own toxic source.
They almost certainly do it to boost their self esteem, they not having enough 'stick' to apply themselves to anything constructive, and so they attempt to destroy others' attempts to so do.
At the end of the first year of my apprenticeship I came first in producing a unipivot pick up arm which rested an aluminium '1/2" hole' on a 1/8" point. Another apprentice came up to it and hit it hard the arm down on the point with a ball pane hammer. You can imagine the results.
Ouch, that was a terrible experience for an apprentice. Jealousy and envy are common (maybe commonest?) feelings among humans.
At the other end of the spectrum, let's not forget the disturbing propensity for humans to gang up on others. I've seen a lot of unwarranted witch hunt occur in many online communities. The crowd mentality (the soccer hooligan type, the worst type) often sniffs out a decent, well meaning individual. They then observe a nasty troll start taking the piss out of the constructive, well meaning behaviour of that nice, gentle person. Soon, the hooligans join the choir, and start harassing the poor soul. Things quickly escalate out of hand, the nasty bullies and but-sniffing miscreants start going around victim's back and reporting them to administrators.
And as is always the case with any human organization, squeaky wheel gets oiled, before you know it the kangaroo court is in session, and the tragic outcome is that the victim then gets tarred, feathered, ridiculed and chased out of town. Sad, really sad, but I've seen that happen to more than one nice decent person.
As a species, I think we humans suck donkey balls.
hifinutt
21-04-2017, 21:22
you can see from the pre amp thread here that no one is immune from getting upset on these forums . normally they are very friendly places including the ones you mention . sadly there is always some who put your teeth on edge . i guess this is life and hopefully we can work through it and learn from it
If we think this is bad, compare it with what the young are suffering, they having used IT as an inherent part of their social lives from the start.
There are frequent reports on media about bullying at school and postings of pictures or threats of it, and they are to inherit the mess we have made of things, have little money, massive university debts, and then try to buy a house.
Most of these woes were depicted in the 60s/70s revolution - we all have the music saying it.
hifinutt
21-04-2017, 21:44
good point dennis , I despair how our young will get out of generation rent trap
Revolution Young Man. Revolution:eyebrows:
fatmarley
21-04-2017, 22:18
About 3 or 4 trolls abused me on another forum - I lost It and lowered myself down to their level (maybe a bit lower). Think I lost a good hifi buddy In the process :( (he was obviously watching).
They say "Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." but that's not so easy when you're annoyed and you've had a few drinks.
mad-moon
21-04-2017, 22:23
Dead right Grant....but when are the people going to stand up and say...That's it...no more..enough is enough...
Revolution Young Man. Revolution:eyebrows:
The 'Divide and rule' principle which virtually ensures there is no real change, people being 'bought off' with a little reward.
My experience is that if you try to be a 'Braveheart', you are the only one doing it, and then get persecuted by turncoates.
Pieoftheday
22-04-2017, 08:44
Just heard this on radio4 and thought it apt for this thread " no one can make you feel inferior without your consent"
At the end of the day, hifi is just boxes and wires. Some people take it all far too seriously IMO, to the point where they're offering to fight others on the all-important issue of whether cables make a difference.
Just heard this on radio4 and thought it apt for this thread " no one can make you feel inferior without your consent"
This is very true of course but if you're depressed, consent is not an option within your possession to give.
It's our hobby, it is unimportant in the grand scheme of life and not worthy of such mud slinging.
I wish the OP all the very best and hope that he receives the help, support and guidance that he is able to pass such comments as a minutiae in a fulfilled life.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
At the end of the day, hifi is just boxes and wires. Some people take it all far too seriously IMO, to the point where they're offering to fight others on the all-important issue of whether cables make a difference.
The fighting is not about the cables per se but due to the fact that whilst arguing on the internet about cables - or anything else - it is too easy to be disrespectful to people. You rarely see this happen when people talk face to face. Someone disrespects you, your first instinct is to knock them on their ass. That's perfectly normal.
Pieoftheday
22-04-2017, 09:35
This is very true of course but if you're depressed, consent is not an option within your possession to give.
It's our hobby, it is unimportant in the grand scheme of life and not worthy of such mud slinging.
I wish the OP all the very best and hope that he receives the help, support and guidance that he is able to pass such comments as a minutiae in a fulfilled lie.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Indeed its a simplistic approach, but has a certain logic
The fighting is not about the cables per se but due to the fact that whilst arguing on the internet about cables - or anything else - it is too easy to be disrespectful to people. You rarely see this happen when people talk face to face. Someone disrespects you, your first instinct is to knock them on their ass. That's perfectly normal.
oh, Kelly's boy eh?;)
:D
Floyddroid
22-04-2017, 09:53
I wasn't going to contribute to this thread as most of the guys here seem to have things covered but here goes...
Forums whether they are about hi-fi or other passions and/or pastimes are not unlike social media. When you write something on them it is out there in the public domain. People will interprate what they will in their own way much like reading a book or watching a movie. Frequenters of forums cover a wide cross section of the community all with their/our own views. They each have their individual personalities and sense of humour. The unfortunate thing is that some contributors are just down right nasty bastards and can't stop themselves from having a laugh at other peoples expense. You have quite obviously fallen victim to one or more of these unsavoury people who simply don't fully understand how they make people feel by their constant ridicule and idle threats. It is insane to think isn't it? that some of these people are highly intelligent sometimes professional people who get their kicks from it. Which only goes to show that you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear. When you are feeling depressed or are trying to deal with deaths in your family of loved ones it is made more difficult to tolerate such hideous mentality. It has been said here once already, these are only forums and not to be taken as real life. My experience of it crushed my faith in many aspects of Hi-Fi and prevents me from contributing as much as i did to forums or other projects like organising events. You are on the right forum here. Stay focused. stay here and don't look elsewhere as i sometimes feel compelled to do. I have made some great friends here both in the ether and in real life.
Hi Simon,
Hello Marco, it was a bit cathartic I suppose and as you said. I have tried to get help but largely it doesn't exist in the sphere of the NHS. I suppose I should have spent the money on private help rather than hi fi, but I don't know if private help could sort it too. My issues are more problematic than I'd care to say, but this is probably going off the point.
Well I guess that every bit helps. Certainly talking to people with a sympathetic ear does, so if you consider that of benefit to you, then feel free to use this thread for that purpose.
Maybe it's me and I have to look at how I can get annoyed sometimes but I don't feel it was very nice to spend ages helping people and then get rejected. Maybe forums are not for me, but I will play it very carefully and circumspectly from now on, as to debating with people for the sake of discussion (and being wrongly seen as being trying to enrage argument by some, which isn't the case)
Yes, that happens all the time, because a lot of folk are simply very selfish and only out to get what they can for themselves (looking after No1) or to champion their 'world view'. I find that attitude is worse these days than ever. Generally you'll not get that here, as the members are always sharing information and helping each other out when they can, for mutual rather than individual gain.
I was on avforums and the guy who runs it just seems to do it for the sake of his business but he has no interest in people helping people out for free.
I think that's a big problem with the vast majority of forums, in that they are born for the wrong reasons, simply as vehicles to further the financial interests of their owners, and not to provide a useful service/information resource and *community* for their members. Plus, when profiting from the exercise is ultimately the primary focus, there will always exist an agenda, which ultimately acts as a disservice to the members, simply because protecting whatever generates income will always come first before anything else.
AoS isn't like that, simply because it was never formed to facilitate my pension fund [nor do I need it to generate an income stream], or to pander to the needs of the hi-fi industry, although we do support some good dealers and manufacturers, but rather to give something back to genuine enthusiasts, where the focus is on showing them how to build genuinely musically satisfying systems, based on the 'SPPV principle' [sound-per-pound value], so that you get maximum 'bang for your buck'.
And that will always be the focus here: what's best for the interests of punters, not what's best for lining my pockets.
A lot of the people say things like decent hi fi is just as good as spending £20 on a hi fi dock, a slight exaggeration but I'm not far off! His name is Stuart Wright. Largely, not to blow my own trumpet, the kit I have and had before is a lot better than most on that forum so they maybe thought I was a hi fi snob. I was saying such things as cables make a difference, only for members to rubbish firms like chord and others and I told them to stop doing it as people's jobs could be affected by people who rubbish them but have never actually heard their products and if others believe what these people say. The owners did not do so and I found out on speaking to their editors (Phil Hinton) that he believes all cabling is 'snake oil', so they let these members carry on spouting rubbish. But it was more than rubbish, it was a concerted effort of inexperienced people to rubbish cable firms business, that exist because people must think they are good, as why are people buying their products. Then I was told by 10-20 people I must be wrong and hearing bias. I don't even work in the industry too!
That's also the problem when the forum owner has 'signed away his soul to the devil', so he or she always has to be mindful of behaving in a way that best suits his or her commercial interests, and not to 'upset' someone who's paying you handsomely to advertise or whatever. Therefore, you can't really be yourself and say what you want to say, or more importantly, think *needs* saying.
That's one of the main reasons why I haven't gone out of my way to monetise AoS, so that I don't feel 'tied' to protecting anyone's commercial interests (or indeed my own), thus I can relax, just be myself and contribute my views and relate my experiences solely as 'Marco the hi-fi enthusiast and music lover', and not "Marco the owner of AoS', who has to consider upsetting a dealer paying him £1k a year, to have a big multicoloured banner plastered all over the forum's homepage, if he thinks that something he sells is shit.
That will *never* be what AoS is about, as profiting financially from the forum is not what drives me. Providing a relaxed and friendly environment, free from oneupmanship, for likeminded enthusiasts to share their respective 'audio journeys', showing them how to get the most from their systems, and when it all comes together and works (as it frequently does), *that* is what drives me :)
That's why we're deliberately selective about ultimately who gets to stay here and who doesn't, by insisting on certain standards of behaviour. And those who show a blatant disregard for helping develop our community, eager to disrupt and divide, and who are, shall we say, fatally 'off-message', in terms of what we're building here, will be given very short shrift - and it's that type of control that ensures the existence of the friendly vibe people joining AoS for the first time quickly pick up on, and what separates us from most other forums.
I've been on forums before and if ever you have a strong view, you get shot down.
Oh trust me, I know ALL about that! Particularly if your strong (but perfectly politely expressed) view is contrary to those of the established clique, and/or is liable to adversely affect the owner's income or personal status in some way - then YOU will be given very short shrift indeed, and the 'powers that be' will try their best to 'engineer' your exit....
Worse, is when you also have a reputation elsewhere for being outspoken (somewhat of an heretic) and holding strong views, which irk the rather belligerent and dogmatic 'scientifically-minded fraternity' [often suffering from 'measurement illness'], and who populate hi-fi forums in significant numbers, are friendly with the mods and admin, and as such are often responsible for 'driving the agenda', due to being afforded extra leeway to say pretty much what they like, and who attack and provoke any 'heretics' to such a degree, that they eventually just give up and leave.
I suffered that form of what ultimately can only be described as bullying, and fate, only recently on a well-known UK forum, which I may name at some point later.
On one forum called cyrusunofficial I had to leave as I had very bad trolls even calling me offensive names, and all such members are still there. It's like a clique of very few people who chat with each other and reject, as a collective, people who have a different opinion. I think when some people loose a debate they tend to go towards offence as the only way they can deal with it. But I won't be doing much debating on here to try and not attract these people to cause offence. These are the real trolls and people who hide behind keyboards and not me. If you debate, a person looses the argument or debate, and then they cause offence, these are the trolls for me. And these forum owners do nothing about it which is worrying to.
Yes indeed, and that's essentially what's just happened to me on the forum I've referred to. Unfortunately, lots of forums are essentially run by the established clique, who actively promote an agenda, backed up by a weak owner with poor leadership skills, who's too afraid to do the right thing and rid the place of these parasites, which would actually benefit both him and the forum in the long run, but cops out of doing so for fear of 'upsetting' the interests of the clique, and so the clique always wins and controls the agenda.
Thus creating a never-ending vicious circle, which simply alienates many good people who would otherwise join and contributes to discussions, adding more interest and diversity in the process, but instead are scared away from doing so because they've watched many others before them being dreadfully treated in that way, and don't wish to become the next victim.
And the sad thing is that some of these weak forum owners don't even realise that's happening because they're too blinkered from keeping the clique happy or doing 'thousands of other things', which they consider as more important, than maintaining the harmony and ultimately well-being of their forum, by ensuring that the atmosphere there and the image projected to the outside world is conducive to its future growth and development.
It often only hits home when all of a sudden they find that no-one outside of the clique is posting anymore, and their forum has effectively died behind their back....
Anyway, I've said enough for now, but I've got plenty more to say on this subject, and indeed address some of the very valid comments made on this thread, so more on that later! :cool:
Marco.
"Just heard this on radio4 and thought it apt for this thread " no one can make you feel inferior without your consent""
I would agree, but my experience is that some really intimidate and disallow personal autonomy in so doing.
I am not being indulgent, seeking sympathy, or pitying myself here, but;
My Father used to hit me every other day and call me a "Dirty ugly stupid little bastard", and this when I came top of the class in four successive reports (in my primary years), and I was constantly derided, humiliated, ridiculed, and disparaged all of my childhood to the age of 11 by him.
How could I under these conditions have an autonomous choice to agree with what was being said to me?
I think it important to separate our lovely interest, which is innocuous and enjoyable, from people's needs to 'have a go' at others. These needs are largely to do with personality problems, and are from those with inadequate personalities,
This is a universal phenomenon, and it is superimposed everywhere in all scenarios and arenas, people using the arena to sublimate and vent venomous persecution, actually coming from unresolved issues of their own.
Sometimes wonder if poor rearing causes much of what you see now. I guess it probably does. I was lucky to have a good, caring family and in turn gave one. We all treat each other with respect care and love and always have. My kids were brought up that way, and my daughter brings her kids up the same. any of us behaved that way, someone would bring the culprit to heel pdq.
Its great though that folk have been strong enough not to follow the poor message their parents may have given them and went and found their own one.
Firebottle
22-04-2017, 11:25
My Father used to hit me every other day and call me a "Dirty ugly stupid little bastard"
That in my book is inexcusable Dennis.
I am very glad to say that from my own point of view you come across as an intelligent and sensible poster on here, and I always enjoy reading your posts.
Keep on keeping on, as they say :thumbsup:
The fighting is not about the cables per se but due to the fact that whilst arguing on the internet about cables - or anything else - it is too easy to be disrespectful to people. You rarely see this happen when people talk face to face. Someone disrespects you, your first instinct is to knock them on their ass. That's perfectly normal.
Having been on the internet for 20-odd years, I started off posting in unmoderated forums, which was kind of a baptism of fire. I couldn't give a toss if someone 'disrespects' me online, because it just reveals them as idiots.
Firebottle
22-04-2017, 11:30
AoS is about .... providing a relaxed and friendly environment, free from oneupmanship, for likeminded enthusiasts to share their respective 'audio journeys', showing them how to get the most from their systems, and when it all comes together and works (as it frequently does), *that* is what drives me :)
Civility costs nothing and goes a very long way to contributing to harmonious relationships.
I like helping people, rather than hindering. What goes around comes around in many cases.
:D
anthonyTD
22-04-2017, 11:32
Well said!:)
Civility costs nothing and goes a very long way to contributing to harmonious relationships.
I like helping people, rather than hindering. What goes around comes around in many cases.
:D
anthonyTD
22-04-2017, 11:58
When I read things like this;
It often reminds me of a true story involving a young up and coming Boxer, [some of you might already know the story] anyway, cut a long story, he got hounded on social media by someone who obviously thought it funny to totally and continually ridicule him, at every opportunity, now, someone who recognised who this troll was' decided to let the boxer know his tel/no and best of all, his address, and it wasn’t long before the troll received a phone call from the boxer, stating, that he was coming to visit him, and the troll continued with his usual abuse to the boxer, convinced that the boxer was bluffing, the boxer then explained that he was in fact at the end of the trolls street, stating the name and house number etc, and was just about to come and knock on his door, the phone went dead!
The boxer knocked on the door, and eventually' a very sheepish, and worried guy came to answer it, he immediately apologised for his behaviour, and even went on to appear on a popular talk show, with the boxer, and gave him a formal apology witnessed by I would guess millions of people watching!
I must add, that the boxer did nothing physical to this person, and I am not condoning that sort of behaviour, but my point is; anonymity is the main reason these people do what they do, no matter what they say, or how they make people feel, they are untouchable, until that is, on the rare occasion, they come face to face with their victim!
Treat others how you would have them treat you! :)
That's also the problem when the forum owner has 'signed his soul to the devil', so he or she always has to be mindful of behaving in a way that best suits his or her commercial interests, and not to 'upset' someone who's paying you handsomely to advertise or whatever. Therefore, you can't really be yourself and say what you want to say, or more importantly think *needs* saying.
I was banned from this forum for suggesting that a 19K streamer was not good value for money.
Which forum was that then, Ziggy? Here, we're more likely to recommend a Raspberry Pi (with matching linear PSU and DAC), for the cost around £400, than entertain using that sort of overpriced 'badge-fi'!
Marco.
The Black Adder
22-04-2017, 13:35
When I read things like this;
It often reminds me of a true story involving a young up and coming Boxer, [some of you might already know the story] anyway, cut a long story, he got hounded on social media by someone who obviously thought it funny to totally and continually ridicule him, at every opportunity, now, someone who recognised who this troll was' decided to let the boxer know his tel/no and best of all, his address, and it wasn’t long before the troll received a phone call from the boxer, stating, that he was coming to visit him, and the troll continued with his usual abuse to the boxer, convinced that the boxer was bluffing, the boxer then explained that he was in fact at the end of the trolls street, stating the name and house number etc, and was just about to come and knock on his door, the phone went dead!
The boxer knocked on the door, and eventually' a very sheepish, and worried guy came to answer it, he immediately apologised for his behaviour, and even went on to appear on a popular talk show, with the boxer, and gave him a formal apology witnessed by I would guess millions of people watching!
I must add, that the boxer did nothing physical to this person, and I am not condoning that sort of behaviour, but my point is; anonymity is the main reason these people do what they do, no matter what they say, or how they make people feel, they are untouchable, until that is, on the rare occasion, they come face to face with their victim!
Treat others how you would have them treat you! :)
+1
I was banned from this forum for suggesting that a 19K streamer was not good value for money.
Ha! I was banned from this forum for posting a link to a Monty Python video clip!
Are you serious? A £19k streamer?
fatmarley
22-04-2017, 13:57
What surprises me Is how people can gang up on a single person.
I remember this poor chap on a photography forum that had all his expensive photography gear stolen. He was distraught and posted a thread for some sympathy but Instead people started abusing him saying he should have been more careful, should have had Insurance, It's your own fault mate etc. The thing that surprised me the most was the number of people attacking him. I did try defending him but I think It got lost In all the abuse.
Spectral Morn
22-04-2017, 13:59
Ha! I was banned from this forum for posting a link to a Monty Python video clip!
Yes Joe, but context was everything at the time.
walpurgis
22-04-2017, 13:59
What surprises me Is how people can gang up on a single person.
Mob mentalilty. Repulsive!
Ha! I was banned from this forum for posting a link to a Monty Python video clip!
Did it contain Jehovah?
"
My Father used to hit me every other day and call me a "Dirty ugly stupid little bastard", and this when I came top of the class in four successive reports (in my primary years), and I was constantly derided, humiliated, ridiculed, and disparaged all of my childhood to the age of 11 by him.
That reminds me of my nickname as a youngster, I was referred to as "a sorry sack of shit", as a young man, oh memories! Good old Pop, gotta love him.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ha! I was banned from this forum for posting a link to a Monty Python video clip!
Yes, and do you remember who was responsible for actioning that 'dastardly deed'? Decisions like that are one of the reasons why he's no longer here... ;)
Marco.
Unfortunately there are people who have such a low commitment to living fully that they tend to persecute others in an attempt to boost self esteem.
The net seems to have given another route for venting this sort of behaviour...
Another gem there from our resident 'Captain Insightful' - and oh so true!
As a self-confessed bon vivant, who most certainly loves living life to the full [at least to the extent with which I can afford], I've been subjected rather a lot to the insidious effects of jealousy from those you describe above, whom it *so* irks to see someone who's actually contented with their life, in full control of it, and thus very happy.
They try their utmost to bring you down to their level of unhappiness, because happy people shine a light on their discontentment - and there's nothing worse than being made to face what hurts you the most, and embrace the fact that you've largely been a pathetic failure... ;)
So I find the best way of dealing with such waste-of-space wankstains is to 'rub their noses in their unhappiness', by regularly discussing/showcasing that which makes YOU happy, and all the good things YOU have got going on in your life, which they would also love to have, but sadly don't, most likely due to bringing their unhappiness upon themselves, because of their past 'indiscretions' and how they've treated others.
You just *know* that when faced with your joy, it'll irritate them beyond belief!! I do that all the time and then laugh at how they subsequently react...! :D
As you say, unfortunately the Internet has given a 'voice' to these vermin, who would've once been muted and simply left to wallow in their miserable existences, but unfortunately now have the ability to spew their bile upon all of whom they resent, from behind the safety of their keyboards.
However, I'm a great believer in karma, and that outwardly nasty and vindictive people, will one day get their comeuppance.
Marco.
When I read things like this;
It often reminds me of a true story involving a young up and coming Boxer, [some of you might already know the story] anyway, cut a long story, he got hounded on social media by someone who obviously thought it funny to totally and continually ridicule him, at every opportunity, now, someone who recognised who this troll was' decided to let the boxer know his tel/no and best of all, his address, and it wasn’t long before the troll received a phone call from the boxer, stating, that he was coming to visit him, and the troll continued with his usual abuse to the boxer, convinced that the boxer was bluffing, the boxer then explained that he was in fact at the end of the trolls street, stating the name and house number etc, and was just about to come and knock on his door, the phone went dead!
The boxer knocked on the door, and eventually' a very sheepish, and worried guy came to answer it, he immediately apologised for his behaviour, and even went on to appear on a popular talk show, with the boxer, and gave him a formal apology witnessed by I would guess millions of people watching!
I must add, that the boxer did nothing physical to this person, and I am not condoning that sort of behaviour, but my point is; anonymity is the main reason these people do what they do, no matter what they say, or how they make people feel, they are untouchable, until that is, on the rare occasion, they come face to face with their victim!
Absolutely, and it's one of the reasons why we seek to limit anonymity here as much as possible, by insisting on members disclosing their real first names and approximate geographical locations, all of which receive subsequent IP address checks, as I detest folk on forums who like to 'hide'.
In terms of what you've described above, I intend on 'living out' that very scenario, as I've recently discovered where one of my most 'vociferous' trolls lives.... So sometime soon I will get the satisfaction of paying them a similar visit ;)
Marco.
Always amazes me that so many seek to hide their real identity and location on so many sites. As you say, they are perhaps afraid someone will find them out . I couldnt care less personally who knows where i am. Ive nowt to hide
Always amazes me that so many seek to hide their real identity and location on so many sites. As you say, they are perhaps afraid someone will find them out . I couldnt care less personally who knows where i am. Ive nowt to hide
Careful or I'll be round with a van to nick all that fantastic hi-fi I've been reading about!
In terms of what you've described above, I intend on 'living out' that very scenario, as I've recently discovered where one of my most 'vociferous' trolls lives.... So sometime soon I will get the satisfaction of paying them a similar visit ;)
Marco.
Why not simply cease visiting wherever you have been going and/or completely ignore any comments that seem to upset you, Why give them the satisfaction, It's all meaningless in the context of the real world no ?
Spectral Morn
22-04-2017, 17:18
Why not simply cease visiting wherever you have been going and/or completely ignore any comments that seem to upset you ? It's all meaningless in the context of the real world no ?
Wrong. For some it is water off a ducks back - maybe for you -, but for others the nasty comments, are toxic and damaging and have a very real world effect on those who are on the receiving end. The its only the net excuse/cover all doesn't wash.
Careful or I'll be round with a van to nick all that fantastic hi-fi I've been reading about!
Dunno how fantastic it is Andrew. Welcome to try tho ;). Doubt i will stop you, but might sell you some music :lol:
Wrong. For some it is water off a ducks back - maybe for you -, but for others the nasty comments, are toxic and damaging and have a very real world effect on those who are on the receiving end. The its only the net excuse/cover all doesn't wash.
Indeed. It can destroy parts of people,s lives. About time laws were changed drastically.
Wrong. For some it is water off a ducks back - maybe for you -, but for others the nasty comments, are toxic and damaging and have a very real world effect on those who are on the receiving end. The its only the net excuse/cover all doesn't wash.
My advise was directed at a particular individual rather than the Internet population as a whole. Has Marco's business, his relationship with his wife, personal health etc.etc. Things that matter in the real world, suffered because of what a few keyboard warriors have said about him, on another forum presumably ?
Either ignore it or better still don't read it in the first place.
Why not simply cease visiting wherever you have been going and/or completely ignore any comments that seem to upset you, Why give them the satisfaction, It's all meaningless in the context of the real world no ?
It's not a case of being "upset", Roger. "Upset" I certainly don't feel, simply because the trolling comes from cowardly 'faceless entities', who would cower away from any form of confrontation in real life, but feel 'brave' behind a keyboard, who are completely beneath me, and of course mean nothing to me.
The satisfaction, therefore, comes from dismantling their anonymity, and the safety they obtain from it, by facing the individuals involved in person, and then revelling in the reaction you're likely to get from such cowards :eyebrows:
Jeez, one such 'entity' recently was so aggrieved and shocked that I found his email address and used it to make contact, and then challenge him on some of the nasty comments he'd made about me on another forum, that I dread to think what he'd have been like if I'd come and knocked on his door instead - the tit would've probably had a seizure! :D
Ignoring these trolls doesn't work either, because they simply continue doing what they do regardless, as it often acts as the only form of 'fun' they experience in their empty existence. No, when given the appropriate opportunity, I prefer a more 'proactive' approach, when dealing with these types of vermin, as I've never been one willing simply to 'sit back and take it'.
My advise was directed at a particular individual rather than the Internet population as a whole. Has Marco's business, his relationship with his wife, personal health etc.etc. Things that matter in the real world, suffered because of what a few keyboard warriors have said about him, on another forum presumably ?
Either ignore it or better still don't read it in the first place.
See above :)
Marco.
Whilst I appreciate your views in this regard Marco, however you yourself state that they are Beneath you , or contempt for that matter, I have to advise that...
IMHO posting what amounts to veiled threats ( and would be regarded as such by the authorities in the context of your post) on an open forum may prove unwise in the event that 'something' might occur and...
Were you IMO rash enough to make such a visit You never know what type of person or persons ( Criminal, Sociopath, Psychopath, Tooled up Drugy ! ) might be on the other side of that door, and..
Were any hypothetical 'incident' to take place you would undoubtedly be regarded as the instigator and aggressor were the authorities to become involved.
Would it really be worth taking such a gamble with your world.
My advise for what it is worth stands, ignore it.
Well, we'll see how the mood takes me... ;)
Part of the pleasure is in making one of them aware that I *know* where they live (however, they won't know if it's them or not I'm referring to), and if or not when I may pay them a visit, and the unsettling anxiety that may cause, which for me (for now, anyway) is sufficient reward for their trolling. I like making them sweat! :D
My intention is simply to do what that boxer did [all above board], but instead without announcing my arrival. As I've said, the satisfaction for me will be in removing their anonymity, and with it the 'safety blanket' they've enjoyed up until now.
In that respect, I don't have to do anything else other than prove that I know where they live :)
Marco.
As you say, they are perhaps afraid someone will find them out . I couldnt care less personally who knows where i am. Ive nowt to hide
Me neither. Everyone knows who I am, my full name and where I live. I've even posted up pictures of my house in Wrexham, so anyone could find me. So if someone wants to come and 'have a go', they're welcome ;)
Marco.
I'm old and decrepit now so there's never been a better time. Ive got big boys tho
Marco, Events such as you are outlining have a remarkable capacity to escalate and get out of control very quickly, regardless of your own intentions, were the Police to become involved they invariably Nick both parties , charge both parties and let the courts sort it out. nuf said from me on this one.
Haselsh1
22-04-2017, 19:48
There is a Weihrauch HW45 Black Star waiting for those who bring the argument to my premises. If they break in to attempt to teach me a lesson I have one for them.
No worries, Roger. Thanks for your advice :)
Marco.
imo this is all getting a bit silly.
one minute we are saying just ignore them mate,the next people are talking about turning up outside peoples houses.......
There is a Weihrauch HW45 Black Star waiting for those who bring the argument to my premises. If they break in to attempt to teach me a lesson I have one for them.
Hehehehe... A man after my own heart. I enjoy access to a few similar 'toys'.
Marco.
I can break vicious wind if needed. sure that will suffice .
imo this is all getting a bit silly.
one minute we are saying just ignore them mate,the next people are talking about turning up outside peoples houses.......
Well, why not? There's no law against going to see someone. I may even take flowers :)
Marco.
I can break viscious wind if needed. sure that will suffice .
Yesh, I can confirm that, as I've shniffed your botteee gas... Chemical warfare, mate! :D
Marco.
Idlewithnodrive
22-04-2017, 20:25
imo this is all getting a bit silly.
one minute we are saying just ignore them mate,the next people are talking about turning up outside peoples houses.......
:exactly: Doesn't exactly gel with the 'friendly forum' ethos does it ?
fatmarley
22-04-2017, 20:38
:exactly: Doesn't exactly gel with the 'friendly forum' ethos does it ?
But it is a friendly forum. They started It as far as I'm aware. Why should Marco sit back and take shit from scum?
I don't believe in ignoring bullies and that's why my young son does MMA and I tell him off If he allows someone to bully him.
I repeat: what's wrong with going to politely say hello to someone? And here's the thing.... If they don't want anyone to come and say hello, then don't give due cause for anyone to do so in the first place...!!
The fact is, if trolls left folk alone, minded their own business instead, and didn't harass or persecute anyone, then there would be NO problem. In doing so, however, it makes THEM the instigator of any ensuing unpleasantness, and with it, the acceptance of potential consequences, including justified retaliation from the victim!
For some bizarre reason, some people only seem to remember or consider the REACTION or RETALIATION to a troll's provocation, but never the initial provocation itself.
Weird, that... :hmm:
Marco.
Idlewithnodrive
22-04-2017, 20:41
I agree, it is a friendly forum and I disagree with bullying, real or virtual, big time but, by saying you'll confront them at their house, you are no better than they are.
Edit - this is in response to fatmarley, Marco got in the way :)
But it is a friendly forum. They started It as far as I'm aware. Why should Marco sit back and take shit from scum?
I don't believe in ignoring bullies and that's why my young son does MMA and I tell him off If he allows someone to bully him.
Finally some sense! What's incredible with these idiots is that they think they can simply sit back and insult and abuse people with impunity, *but* as soon as the victim bites back, the reaction from the persecutor is one of sheer indignation, and 'OH SHOCK, HORROR', how DARE they do that to poor little me?? :eek:
As if somehow the REACTION from the victim, simply in giving them a 'taste of their own medicine', is worse than the provocation from the persecutor. Could someone please explain how that logic works? :scratch:
It certainly doesn't 'fit' in my world.
Marco.
Does anybody else just sit back, listen to a few tunes and relax?
I was just wondering what forum I had opened when I started reading all these posts.
Come on now, Kevin, you've also been on the end of trolling and harassment from some of these idiots, and in conversations I've had with you, you weren't exactly giving them your 'blessing', so don't go all 'goody two shoes' on us now... ;)
Marco.
Idlewithnodrive
22-04-2017, 20:52
Does anybody else just sit back, listen to a few tunes and relax?
I was just wondering what forum I had opened when I started reading all these posts.
Yep, doing just that now.
Come on now, Kevin, you've also been on the end of trolling and harassment from some of these idiots, and in conversations I've had with you, you weren't exactly giving them your 'blessing', so don't go all 'goody two shoes' on us now... ;)
Marco.
I really can't be arsed with them now. The best course of action really is to ignore them.
This week, with the sad news of Sovereign passing away has really hit home the message that life really is too short to get involved in this kind of crap anymore.
Use your time doing something positive, something you enjoy and just ignore the fools. That is what I intend to do from now on....
Oh absolutely! I'm typing all this whilst sipping a glass of Prosecco, with my lovely wife, listening to some Goldfrapp. I couldn't be in a better mood, Kevin :cheers:
Don't think I'm in any way 'angry' - far from it. It's just fun ripping the shite out of the tossers who get a kick out of trying to make people as miserable as they are, and hilariously watching THEIR reaction, as if somehow *I*, who am simply getting on with my life and bothering no-one, am the one in the wrong, not THEM!!! :lol: :mental:
Marco.
I understand both views tbh. Baiting and bullying is something that adults should really be above, but if e look at business and parliament to mention just 2 orginisations that should know better, we see it isnt. If our lawmakers do it themselves then I guess its not hard to see why they have not outlawed it. So i just ignore it best I can. Ive nothing to do with any of them and never have so my concience is clean.
Oh absolutely! I'm typing all this whilst sipping a glass of Prosecco, with my lovely wife, listening to some Goldfrapp. I couldn't be in a better mood, Kevin :cheers:
Don't think I'm in any way 'angry' - far from it. It's just fun ripping the shite out of the tossers who get a kick out of trying to make people as miserable as they are, and hilariously watching THEIR reaction, as if somehow *I*, who am simply getting on with my life and bothering no-one, am the one in the wrong, not THEM!!! :lol: :mental:
Marco.
Goldfrapp? I have one of their cd's.. cost me a penny a few years ago.... I wiz robbed :ner:
Too 'modern' for you, mate :eyebrows:
Marco.
Confess I can't see what people see in Goldfrapp either.
walpurgis
22-04-2017, 21:52
Confess I can't see what people see in Goldfrapp either.
Same!
But then, I never did like screechy voices and contrived dirges. :eek:
Confess I can't see what people see in Goldfrapp either.
I've never heard anything by Goldfrapp. But then, some people don't 'get' Shakespeare. Takes all sorts, nowt so queer as folk, wouldn't life be boring of we all liked the same things, variety's the spice of life, one man's meat is another man's poison. And so on.
Same!
But then, I never did like screechy voices and contrived dirges. :eek:
So no Kate Bush?
Confess I can't see what people see in Goldfrapp either.
Lol... Let's just say that Grant and you are 'of a certain age', and so not liable to be into such stuff [Groove Armada now currently spinning, Tiesto nest].... Pop your slippers on, old chap, and stick on some Mantovani :eyebrows:
Marco.
I've never heard anything by Goldfrapp. But then, some people don't 'get' Shakespeare. Takes all sorts, nowt so queer as folk, wouldn't life be boring of we all liked the same things, variety's the spice of life, one man's meat is another man's poison. And so on.
Or Chaucer perhaps?
Groove Armada I have heard, via a freebie CD, which, appropriately, I gave away.
Or Chaucer perhaps?
Chaucer I confess I struggle with. I had to read his 'Dream visions' for a seminar back in my BA days; amusingly I fell asleep whilst reading them and missed the seminar.
walpurgis
22-04-2017, 21:58
So no Kate Bush?
Kate can be screechy, but not contrived. :)
So no Kate Bush?
Kate Bush sings Thomas Tallis.
Compared to Chaucer Shakespeare is Quentin Tarantino.
Lol... Let's just say that Grant and you are 'of a certain age', and so not liable to be into such stuff [Groove Armada now currently spinning, Tiesto nest].... Pop your slippers on, old chap, and stick on some Mantovani :eyebrows:
Marco.
I watched her on 'Later' last week. ;)
Is there anyone under the age of 50 currently posting here? :D
In Glasgow, you're more likely to encounter a 'chancer', than Chaucer....
Marco.
walpurgis
22-04-2017, 22:00
some people don't 'get' Shakespeare
Others do.
Lol... Let's just say that Grant and you are 'of a certain age', and so not liable to be into such stuff [Groove Armada now currently spinning, Tiesto nest].... Pop your slippers on, old chap, and stick on some Mantovani :eyebrows:
Marco.
Hey, I'm still young, hip and cool; its just my body wont play ball anymore(bastard thing) ;) I'm a Sinatra fan, and was listening to something cool and hip today on the radio; no idea what it was right enough :ner:
some people don't 'get' Shakespeare
I 'get' that he's shit.
Marco.
walpurgis
22-04-2017, 22:01
Kate Bush sings Thomas Tallis.
Now there's thought!
Is there anyone under the age of 50 currently posting here? :D
In Glasgow, you're more likely to encounter a 'chancer', than Chaucer....
Marco.
well you aint anyway :D
Hey, I'm still young, hip and cool; its just my body wont play ball anymore(bastard thing) I'm a Sinatra fan, and was listening to something cool and hip today on the radio; no idea what it was right enough :ner:
Lol.... If you think you're up to it, I could bring Tabatha along on Friday. Barry will vouch for her 'adventurous nature'...
Marco.
well you aint anyway :D
How do you know? I could've lied.... :eyebrows:
Besides, I only look about 35 - and no, not stone! :lol:
Marco.
Others do.
Well, yes. But this whole 'I can't understand how anyone can like/dislike <insert name of artist/writer/composer>' stuff is a bit daft really. Obviously, if you like something, you like it, and no amount of persuasion will make you dislike it. Similarly, if you dislike something, someone telling you that you 'ought' to like it is unlikely to get very far; the best they can hope for is to persuade you of its artistic merit, even if you don't actually enjoy it.
The only exception to this rule is The Beatles. Anyone who dislikes them is Just Plain Wrong.
Lol.... If you think you're up to it, I could bring Tabatha along on Friday. Barry will vouch for her 'adventurous nature'...
Marco.
as long as she's quiet. Cant stand loud women ;)
How do you know? I could've lied.... :eyebrows:
Besides, I only look about 35 - and no, not stone! :D
Marco.
There is no polite answer to that ;)
Shakespere is just one 'cool dude'. Look at all the women he attracts: Gwyneth Paltrow in "Shakespere in Love"; Felicity Kendell in "Shakespere Whallah", and Helen Mirren in "Midsummer Night's Dream" and the "Tempest". :lol:
There is no polite answer to that ;)
:lolsign:
Ye cannae whack a dod of classic AoS thread drift!!
Marco.
Idlewithnodrive
22-04-2017, 22:08
It seems that for an inordinate number of people on hi-fi fora the world seems to have stopped in the late 60's / early 70's.
Quite worrying really.
It seems that for an inordinate number of people on hi-fi fora the world seems to have stopped in the late 60's / early 70's.
Quite worrying really.
In my case, the 1860s/70s.
walpurgis
22-04-2017, 22:09
Obviously, if you like something, you like it, and no amount of persuasion will make you dislike it. Similarly, if you dislike something, someone telling you that you 'ought' to like it is unlikely to get very far
I don't know really. I've had music I really didn't like, eventually grow on me.
The only exception to this rule is The Beatles. Anyone who dislikes them is Just Plain Wrong.
There are many who think them over-rated.
I don't know really. I've had music I really didn't like, eventually grow on me.
Yes, but that's you making the change as your tastes matured. If you had someone pestering you to like it, you'd probably have hated it even more. I'm sure Marco will come round to Shakespeare eventually.
There are many who think them over-rated.
There are many idiots in the world.
as long as she's quiet. Cant stand loud women ;)
*She* is quiet, but it's the noise she'll cause YOU to make when she gets her whip out, that you'll have to worry about! :whippin: :whippin:
Marco.
Those that perpetrate this behaviour are unlikely to stop because their need is existential and constant, it being a result of personality deficiency. It needs 'topping up' like an addiction.
Regarding anonymity, my only concern really these days is the fraud occurring on identity and money issues, which may be a factor in desiring it on sites.
Re. "What surprises me Is how people can gang up on a single person."
It is in the nature of ontologically insecure people to want the support of a group to 'hide behind/within'.
Most are unable to withstand the real tension and anxiety that is a part of everyday interaction, especially in career situations in large organisations.
FWIW, I live next to a sociopath who has been spreading the absolutely untrue rumour that I am a paedophile, and fifteen years ago the police interviewed all of the other seven residents in the row of eight terraced house I live in, asking them if they had seen me with children.
She exhibits really bizarre behaviour, and I have an eight page write-up of her abuses over fourteen years which was submitted to the ASBO officer a few years ago,; now she is known and understood she is mostly loathed.
In '06 she telephoned the RSPCA and said that I was raping a neighbour's cat and shaving his chest, and I was then interviewed by an inspector a day later about this. During the interview the cat came down from upstairs on my bed, and rolled on the carpet stretching out his paws. The inspector then said of the neighbour; "She can take a running jump".
So the reality is that because of rumour one's life can be affected negatively.
There are many idiots in the world.
Yes, can you simply imagine that some folk don't rate The Beatles? :eek:
They're probably the type who read The Daily Mail, and feel 'intellectual' afterwards.
Marco.
Dynamics
22-04-2017, 22:16
Lol... Let's just say that Grant and you are 'of a certain age', and so not liable to be into such stuff [Groove Armada now currently spinning, Tiesto nest].... Pop your slippers on, old chap, and stick on some Mantovani :eyebrows:
Marco.
I do like Goldfrapp. Tales of us and felt mountain especially, I just love the melodies. Sitting listening to felt mountain in a Swiss ski resort with the sun setting on the mountain was out of this world.
:lolsign:
Ye cannae whack a dod of classic AoS thread drift!!
Marco.
Hopefully it is a display of the un-malicious, good-natured and light-hearted banter that occurs here on AoS. An antidote to the "trolling" that occurs on other sites.
Those that perpetrate this behaviour are unlikely to stop because their need is existential and constant, it being a result of personality deficiency. It needs 'topping up' like an addiction.
I like that one too, Dennis :thumbsup:
Reminds me of the inmates who populate a forum we refer to as 'the midden'. The ringleader, and those who obsequiously 'excavate his arse passage', all suffer from said personality deficiency.
Marco.
There are many idiots in the world.
Thought them a bit overrated myself, especially in the day, but Ive grown to like them more again. Not to point of idolitary but the proof of pudding is they are still popular.
Early 20th century writers such as Sammy Cahn, Duke Ellington, the Gershwins, Jerome Kern, Cole Porter and Hoagy Carmichael to name a few were and still are greats. Their stuff is still as fresh as ever.
I do like Goldfrapp. Tales of us and felt mountain especially, I just love the melodies. Sitting listening to felt mountain in a Swiss ski resort with the sun setting on the mountain was out of this world.
Oh yeah baby.... I'm diggin' that vibe :smoking: :peace:
Marco.
*She* is quiet, but it's the noise she'll cause you to make when she gets her whip out, that you'll have to worry about! :whippin: :whippin:
Marco.
Ive no perversions mate sadly; wellmaybe buying a Goldfrapp cd once and breaking wind to she'll be coming round the mountain :eek:
Spectral Morn
22-04-2017, 22:24
There are many who think them over-rated.
Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Cohen all in my view highly overrated :sofa:
Spectral Morn
22-04-2017, 22:26
Confess I can't see what people see in Goldfrapp either.
Alison ;) Wonderful music. Seen them live once, fabulous.
Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Cohen all in my view highly overrated :sofa:
:eek::eek::eek::eek:
Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Cohen all in my view highly overrated :sofa:
You can insult the other 3 all you want, but leave Leonard out of it :D
Spectral Morn
22-04-2017, 22:31
You can insult the other 3 all you want, but leave Leonard out of it :D
Just don't understand the adoration Grant. Yes the odd good song, but walk on water fabulousness ? Nope, not for me.
Used to feel the same about the Doors, but one day I got what it was that folks like and praise them for.
What about some Tiesto? Magical sound quality from this Ministry of Sound 2017 stuff!! :rave:
Marco.
Just don't understand the adoration Grant.
I often feel that way about foie gras.
Marco.
walpurgis
22-04-2017, 22:36
Hopefully it is a display of the un-malicious, good-natured and light-hearted banter that occurs here on AoS.
Damn! You've put me off now Barry. I was just about to have a major apoplectic, unreasonable and totally over the top rant. :lol:
Just don't understand the adoration Grant. Yes the odd good song, but walk on water fabulousness ? Nope, not for me.
Used to feel the same about the Doors, but one day I got what it was that folks like and praise them for.
Thats fine, no probs with folk not liking his stuff; its a niche really. but hell Garth Brooks has out sold most folk including Elvis and Michael Jackson. An amazing statistic. Johnny Cash too for that matter.
Spectral Morn
22-04-2017, 22:41
Thats fine, no probs with folk not liking his stuff; its a niche really. but hell Garth Brooks has out sold most folk including Elvis and Michael Jackson. An amazing statistic. Johnny Cash too for that matter.
Don't much get them either Grant, though Johnny Cash's later stuff is very good. His version of Hurt is amazing and the video always brings tears to my eyes.
vt1Pwfnh5pc
I often feel that way about foie gras.
Marco.
Never smoked the stuff
Don't much get them either Grant, though Johnny Cash's later stuff is very good. His version of Hurt is amazing and the video always brings tears to my eyes.
vt1Pwfnh5pc
Yes his last sets were extrordinary. Ive got em all plus a fair few others. Always liked him and Willie Nelson, who is a rather good guitarist. Not big on the others but they were /are popular I guess. I was always Blues first, but have mellowed a lot with age musically.
Back on topic a bit, I just dont understand aggression and nastiness I guess. Ive always tried to be fair and easy going personally. Some folk just seem the opposite(all very odd)
Never smoked the stuff
Tabatha has a rather novel use for such during ménage à trois ;)
Marco.
"as long as she's quiet. Cant stand loud women "
I really hate the way that the English language has deteriorated on media - estuary English perhaps, but the screeching of females which is 'de rigour' now appals me, as well as the missing phonemes and constant clichéd usage, and "I mean I think", and also the constant shouting over others.
Which forum was that then, Ziggy? Here, we're more likely to recommend a Raspberry Pi (with matching linear PSU and DAC), for the cost around £400, than entertain using that sort of overpriced 'badge-fi'!
Marco.
Wigwam banned me for questing the value of a 19k streamer they reviewed.
I really hate the way that the English language has deteriorated on media - estuary English perhaps, but the screeching of females which is 'de rigour' now appals me, as well as the missing phonemes and constant clichéd usage, and "I mean I think", and also the constant shouting over others.
Need a spellchecker there, Dennis! ;)
However, I fully agree... The continual 'cackling' of said females in pubs, apparently when laughing at something supposedly 'funny', boils my piss. And it usually emits from creatures that more resemble a man, than anything remotely possessing female genes: sweaty pint-swilling, tattooed 'ladettes', with bigger bellies and more facial hair than Giant Haystacks! :spew:
What happened to women, who both looked like and behaved like women?
Marco.
I was a member of a popular forum for analog users, and everything was fine until I posted my picture. Suddenly everyone took offense to everything I said! Including the editor. A bunch of stuffed shirts.
And I feel the same way about women in pubs Marco! Seems those you describe are the only ones hitting on me anymore? Large bovine women with facial hair smiling and wanting to run their fingers through my hair, I know what the young girls must feel like when old sots are flirting with them! Seems the world has changed and I failed to adjust?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Big gals with little sweaty palms
I was a member of a popular forum for analog users, and everything was fine until I posted my picture. Suddenly everyone took offense to everything I said! Including the editor. A bunch of stuffed shirts.
Assholes, mate. For some reason, you get a lot of snobby, po-faced prudes, populating some forums. Can't stand folk like that!
And I feel the same way about women in pubs Marco! Seems those you describe are the only ones hitting on me anymore? Large bovine women with facial hair smiling and wanting to run their fingers through my hair...
Lol....I suspect some would enjoy that, and trust me a lot of women LOVE hairy guys like you, finding it very sexy, but only if the attention you're getting comes from ones without a beard of their own!! :eyebrows:
Personally, I prefer well-presented, well-spoken and well-mannered, educated, petite longhaired brunettes, who both behave and dress femininely. Hang on, that's my wife... :D
Marco.
I dont care, as long as they have big tits ;)
Just don't understand the adoration Grant. Yes the odd good song, but walk on water fabulousness ? Nope, not for me.
Used to feel the same about the Doors, but one day I got what it was that folks like and praise them for.
I'm a bit off and on with the Doors. Loved them for a while, then thought they were over-rated, now love some of their stuff but have come to the conclusion that their albums have a lot of 'filler' songs.
Just a week or so back, we were told that any criticism of HFW or its owner would result in a ban. Do we take it that this rule no longer applies?
In King Kenny speak...maybe,s aye, maybe,s naw. :eyebrows:
Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Cohen all in my view highly overrated :sofa:
Stones, maybe. Overrated IMO: Clapton, the Clash, Oasis.
I'm a bit off and on with the Doors. Loved them for a while, then thought they were over-rated, now love some of their stuff but have come to the conclusion that their albums have a lot of 'filler' songs.
Not a fan. I preferred the Byrds and Roger McGuinn personally. His live in Spain album is very good
Lodgesound
23-04-2017, 07:41
What about some Tiesto? Magical sound quality from this Ministry of Sound 2017 stuff!! :rave:
Marco.
Hi Marco;
Didn'nt realise you liked Trance music and the like - as an aside from my other activities in my younger years I was a club DJ - I used to also produce mix albums.
This one I made as a retrospective of what I had played and worked with over a 5 year period - you may like some of it...it was mixed basically live. Fond memories of a time before my health failed so dramatically.
https://www.mixcloud.com/Lodgesound/ages-past/
The Black Adder
23-04-2017, 08:01
Hi Marco;
Didn'nt realise you liked Trance music and the like - as an aside from my other activities in my younger years I was a club DJ - I used to also produce mix albums.
This one I made as a retrospective of what I had played and worked with over a 5 year period - you may like some of it...it was mixed basically live. Fond memories of a time before my health failed so dramatically.
https://www.mixcloud.com/Lodgesound/ages-past/
I didn't know that either from you Stewart :)... from a 90's club goer (also very late 80's) I did Hacienda and Cream. Also did DJ Mongoose gigs. I was more indie/rock orientated (Cult, Banshees, Cure, Roses, Spiritualized) but as with those heady nights/mornings its all about the company you keep. :)
Reach for the lasers, safe as f@ck. :)
Would have loved to have gone to Spike Island but my mum wouldn't let me... lol
Lodgesound
23-04-2017, 08:14
Hi Jo...
Wow some amazing places you went there - was such a good time for that kind of music - looking back today it's hard to believe how popular it became. Mixing it and playing out was also tremendous fun.
I learned to DJ on turntables but also quickly went on to using CD and open reel tape at certain gigs as well as using computers as they started to become powerful enough.
Amazing time to have been around and growing up really.
The Black Adder
23-04-2017, 09:16
You got that right... iconic times indeed. :)
My standards may deteriorate when I'm tired Marc.
The objectionable female traits I object to are more on media; TV and radio where they seem indifferent to a listening audience, as though it is peripheral to the event rather then what the event should be for.
I dont care, as long as they have big tits ;)
...wide lips and child-bearing hips! :D
[Oh, and they know when to shut up and cook your dinner].
Marco.
I bought a Goat to deal with Trolls around here, never seen any yet so he must be doing his job, he's a big bugger mind you so that probably helps 😉 😂
I bought a Goat to deal with Trolls around here, never seen any yet so he must be doing his job, he's a big bugger mind you so that probably helps �� ��
Ferrets mate lol
hifinutt
23-04-2017, 13:01
*POST NOW DELETED* - ADMIN
blimey , I can hardly read that with no paragraphs , forgive me now but I thought this was a thread about trolls and on line bullying , not the wams business model ?
Yeah, TBH, Phil, that's a good point. Much as I feel aggrieved at how disgracefully and unfairly I was treated recently on Wigwam, having pops at them here solves nothing, so I shall remove all relevant posts, in that respect, including mine :)
Marco.
magiccarpetride
23-04-2017, 20:19
I dont care, as long as they have big tits ;)
Big tits are pure magic. They make everything just divine ;)
Not all of them believe me.
And still the question remains: why are there so few women on hifi forums?
They are too busy on face book most likely, or at the bingo:uhho:
hifinutt
23-04-2017, 21:13
Yeah, TBH, Phil, that's a good point. Much as I feel aggrieved at how disgracefully and unfairly I was treated recently on Wigwam, having pops at them here solves nothing, so I shall remove all relevant posts, in that respect, including mine :)
Marco.
excellent idea .and that's very magnanimous of you :)
Floyddroid
24-04-2017, 05:21
What has this thread been turned into here? C'mon guys get a grip. Remember the op.
Hang on, Steve, you yourself in the past have been a victim of the very folk (and also forums) I've referenced, and have subsequently used AoS to 'discuss' the matter at length [read as have a damn good moan about it], which you were allowed to do at the time without issue.
Therefore, mate, with the greatest of respect, you're in no position to 'lecture' anyone else on having done precisely the same...
Anyway, as I've said, there will be no more negative references made about WW (from anyone), or anything else posted of an ill-tempered nature, so let's just put all that behind us and move on :cool:
Marco.
excellent idea .and that's very magnanimous of you :)
Cheers, Phil. It was simply the sensible thing to do, as life's too short to hold grudges forever. Only those with the biggest [mostly unjustified] chips on their shoulders behave that way.
Marco.
Marco, one danger of the "no more negative references" standpoint is that it may prevent objective reporting of negative events, and this is, or can be effectively a censorship of truth.
Political correctness can also operate in this way, for eg., I was recently in my local health shop and expressed a dislike of something to the owner.
She pulled me to one side and asked me to refrain from this or do it very quietly.
I replied;
"So I cannot express a preference for blondes over brunettes, or apples over oranges because it may be interpreted as offensive to the non preferred?"
The crux is whether or not Ad Hominem comments are being made, rather than a statement of facts, even those of a previous interaction. It is gratuitous abuse which is the real evil.
So what, in such a case, would you expect AoS to do about it? At times, I guess most of us have been subjected to moderation decisions with which we're unhappy. We essentially have two choices: leave the forum which moderates us unfairly, or put up with it, since the third option, arguing with the moderators' decision, is a sure-fire way of getting banned. Taking the grievance to AN Other forum is unlikely to help.
I Hope you find we are a bit more open minded here! Their loss is our gain. Some of those other sites have contributors who all think exactly the same so what do they ever learn that is new? Anyway welcome from me
Marco, one danger of the "no more negative references" standpoint is that it may prevent objective reporting of negative events, and this is, or can be effectively a censorship of truth.
Just keep things general and non-specific to any particular forum, Dennis, and all will be fine :)
Marco.
So specifics which are true are not allowed then?
Yes, but simply don't name the forums that the "true specifics" are relevant to.
Not sure why you're making such a fuss about this, as I don't recall you having named or singled out any specific forums so far for criticism, therefore it shouldn't be too much of a hardship to continue in that vein... ;)
Marco.
Simon,
When I feel down I do the following :-
Make myself a large mug of camomile tea.
Settle into my comfy listening chair, put on some cheerful music & just let the sounds wash over me until I almost fall asleep.
Relaxing this way helps to keep my stress levels & BP down.
Hope this helps ?
Oliver
Simon, I've never found this forum less than welcoming and helpful. Some interesting and knowledgeable people post here - I think you'll fit in great.
All the best
Nial
And still the question remains: why are there so few women on hifi forums?
Simply because there are far fewer women who are HiFi geeks compared to men. Men are, in general, more natural tinkerers, but of course, there are still women out there who are hardcore tweaks.
Simon,
When I feel down I do the following :-
Make myself a large mug of camomile tea.
Settle into my comfy listening chair, put on some cheerful music & just let the sounds wash over me until I almost fall asleep.
Relaxing this way helps to keep my stress levels & BP down.
Hope this helps ?
Oliver
sadly it doesnt with depression :(
Continuing with some of the other points made, which I wanted to address...
Our posts crossed Simon, and what you describe is well documented in group behaviour, and now we even have the widely used expression "Groupthink".
When challenged, most people will adhere to a ‘group norm' regardless of it validity.
I agree with the concept of "Groupthink", and can see clear evidence of that on every forum I've been a member of. On some, however, it's worse than others.
Your validity and worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas.
That's a cracker, and *so* true, which I may even add to my signature!
Regarding bullying on audio forums, and I hope the moderators will not delete this, I expressed the view on the HUG site that when I changed my AVI S2000MP pre for the ATC SCA2 pre, I could hear a difference.
Excuse my ignorance, but what is the HUG site? Never heard of it. Got any links?
The owner of the site immediately ridiculed this, and then sent me a PM saying that I had been given three infraction points for posting my statement.
I then received several PMs from other members, and one said something like;
"What next. detention, or lines".
Two years later the owner of the site posted with great exclamation that he was horrified because he could now hear a difference between two well spec'd amps.
I wrote to him asking him to apologise to me and remove my 'infraction points', but received no reply. This is disgraceful arrogant and impolite behaviour.
I don't know whether to find such crazy behaviour more laughable than ridiculous, or vice versa!
The bloke involved urgently needs to re-evaluate his attitude. There is no excuse for 'ridiculing' anyone, as ridiculing people is playground behaviour, and achieves nothing constructive.
The sad thing is, on forums, there are a fair number of his ilk about! :rolleyes:
Marco.
Marco, A.S. of the Harbeth User Group, HUG.
Aw gawd, HIM! Why am I not surprised... :rolleyes:
Regardless of his personal 'beliefs', which he's entitled to, that was disgraceful behaviour he subjected you to, which quite frankly, would put me off ever buying something from Harbeth.
Unfortunately, scientific training seems to have spawned so may of his type, who completely twist what REAL science means, simply to cocoon themselves in a belief system that they consider protects their conclusions in audio from being called into question....
It simply creates people who think like robots, and who like them, seemingly cannot defy their 'command program'.
Marco.
Psychologically I think there is more going on.
Think of the white coated engineer in his cocooned world turning the dials and knobs measuring 'objectively' all in front of him.
Isn't it easy to have a view that;
'We have everything under control here, there is nothing to worry about'.
The scenario itself is conducive to a stance of illusory security about our position in the universe, which actually is full of random uncontrolled events, chaos and entropy. The earth has on 5 billion years before engulfment by the sun.
Too true. We are most certainly on the same page here, my friend. Your last paragraph nails it! :)
Marco.
Aw gawd, HIM! Why am I not surprised... :rolleyes:
Regardless of his personal 'beliefs', which he's entitled to, that was disgraceful behaviour he subjected you to, which quite frankly, would put me off ever buying something from Harbeth.
.
You can't have it both ways; it's his forum, his rules. I'm sure some people feel unhappy about how they've been moderated here on AoS. AS in person is a lovely bloke, and he makes great speakers. (I'm registered on the HUG, but AFAIR have never posted there).
No disputing that it's his forum and his rules, Joe, but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled, on a separate forum, to disagree with what he's doing, or even be horrified by his actions, and allow it to influence my buying decisions. Remember that I'm simply reacting to what Dennis has reported he's experienced on HUG.
There are lots of supposedly "lovely blokes" on hi-fi forums, whose online behaviour appears to indicate the complete contrary! And yes, I accept that such an accusation could equally be levelled at me ;)
Marco.
blackstar
25-04-2017, 10:29
No disputing that it's his forum, Joe, but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled, on a separate forum, to disagree with how he runs it, or even be horrified by his approach and allow it to influence my buying decisions. Remember that I'm simply reacting to what Dennis was subjected to on HUG.
There are lots of supposedly "lovely blokes" on hi-fi forums, whose online behaviour appears to indicate the complete contrary! And yes, I accept that such an accusation could equally be levelled at me ;)
Marco.
Equally, those who discuss this forum elsewhere shouldn't be castigated out of hand, because they are entitled to do so. All this inter-forum bollocks is frankly bollocks.
Not sure i see the connection. Forum rules do say you dont castigate forum or forum members off site. They were talking re someone being punished for saying he heard a difference between 2 amps.
Equally, those who discuss this forum elsewhere shouldn't be castigated out of hand, because they are entitled to do so. All this inter-forum bollocks is frankly bollocks.
Not so, while your here, you're 'entitled to do' what the moderators and I allow. As has been stated before, if you want to do whatever you like, without rules or restriction, then put your hand in your pocket and start up your own forum.
As for that last bit, you're a bit of a hypocrite, as it was you who was earlier blissfully indulging in "inter-forum bollocks", with that HUMUNGOUS post you put up about Wigwam!
Marco.
The AoS rules on this seem to be all over the place, tbh. One day, someone is allowed, indeed encouraged, to 'name and shame' another forum, the next day someone is told they can report bad behaviour, without naming the forum, now we seem to be back in 'name and shame' mode again!
The AoS rules on this seem to be all over the place, tbh. One day, someone is allowed, indeed encouraged, to 'name and shame' another forum, the next day someone is told they can report bad behaviour, without naming the forum, now we seem to be back in 'name and shame' mode again!
it may seem that way, but it only seems that way:)
it may seem that way, but it only seems that way:)
Ah, the subjectivist approach!
I'm unhappy with the idea of Members here complaining about what goes on elsewhere in other fora. There is very little 'we' can do about it, even if we are members of the other forum. I would suggest if someone has been badly treated elsewhere, they simply leave and look for a fourum that better suits them.
You can satisfy most members for most of the time, but you cannot satisfy all of the members all of the time.
For that reason I correspond very little on the two other audio fora with which I'm a member. AoS is enough for me, and is the place I feel most comfortable in.
The AoS rules on this seem to be all over the place, tbh. One day, someone is allowed, indeed encouraged, to 'name and shame' another forum, the next day someone is told they can report bad behaviour, without naming the forum, now we seem to be back in 'name and shame' mode again!
Lol... It's very simple, Joe, that's why we have an ethos, as opposed to a rigid AUP, because life isn't a rigid entity...
The default position here is that the *only* forum that can't be discussed, in any way, is HFS [see sticky on this subject elsewhere]. All other forums can be discussed, recommended, praised or indeed constructively criticised within reason (at the discretion of the mods and admin).
However, personal insults made against any individuals belonging to those forums, is prohibited, hence why I deleted what I wrote earlier about the admin on WW, as I fully admit that it was inappropriate of me, and therefore anyone else to do the same. Constructive criticism, however, does not constitute as a personal insult.
I trust that helps clear things up :)
Marco.
Some further astute comments, made earlier on this thread:
The shield of anonymity seems to give superpowers to people with evil mental disposition. They then purposefully seek people who they can sniff out as being good natured, well mannered. Their ultimate goal is to destroy such people.
Don't regard them. They are stewing in their own toxic sauce of hatred. They are eating up their own hearts, and there is nothing you can do about it.
Love that last one, and OH SO TRUE! I could (but won't) name one forum where the most, shall we say, 'vociferous' amongst the membership fundamentally qualify for the above. "Eating up their own hearts" indeed.........
It's the obvious anger and resentment at that and/or those that don't fit with their 'world view', I simply cannot fathom. Why show such *continual* anger and resentment towards people who are simply legitimately different from you? :scratch:
For the benefit of their own health, these folk should learn to SMILE more and BE HAPPY!
:exactly:
Marco.
It seems to me that we all should as humans, accept that our statements and actions are things we are responsible for, and accountable for, and so we should be open to discussion and criticism, and by this means we can all learn and improve.
But the old chestnut of it deteriorating into Ad Hominem comments is so historically known, and of no purpose but to inflict pain, that we should all be mature enough to not indulge in it. Light not heat.
Not sure i see the connection. Forum rules do say you dont castigate forum or forum members off site. They were talking re someone being punished for saying he heard a difference between 2 amps.
Indeed, and which, quite frankly, is ridiculous. In the real world, occupied by the vast majority of us, as opposed to inhabiting a self-created vacuum of scientific delusion, that is simply justified and normal behaviour.
Marco.
It seems to me that we all should as humans, accept that our statements and actions are things we are responsible for, and accountable for, and so we should be open to discussion and criticism, and by this means we can all learn and improve.
But the old chestnut of it deteriorating into Ad Hominem comments is so historically known, and of no purpose but to inflict pain, that we should all be mature enough to not indulge in it. Light not heat.
:thumbsup:
The key, however, is contained in your last sentence. Whilst I'm in full agreement with your opening paragraph, there's a BIG difference between constructive discussion/criticism and blatant abusing/vilifying - and in some cases what is tantamount to nothing other than continual (completely unwarranted) persecution!!
Marco.
blackstar
25-04-2017, 14:27
Not so, while your here, you're 'entitled to do' what the moderators and I allow. As has been stated before, if you want to do whatever you like, without rules or restriction, then put your hand in your pocket and start up your own forum.
As for that last bit, you're a bit of a hypocrite, as it was you who was earlier blissfully indulging in "inter-forum bollocks", with that HUMUNGOUS post you put up about Wigwam!
Marco.
Sorry, I might be being forgetful or naive but which post?
I was thinking whilst in the bath last night about those who have this need to constantly 'have a go' at someone or some group, remembering my earlier post on it being the result of a personality defect.
I think a good metaphor is that they are running themselves like a poorly run business, they cannot 'balance the books' and so are always having to seek resources outside to prop it up.
Sorry, I might be being forgetful or naive but which post?
I think the trade document that you copied and pasted.
I was thinking whilst in the bath last night about those who have this need to constantly 'have a go' at someone or some group, remembering my earlier post on it being the result of a personality defect.
I think a good metaphor is that they are running themselves like a poorly run business, they cannot 'balance the books' and so are always having to seek resources outside to prop it up.
Some of them are trading whilst insolvent...
I think the trade document that you copied and pasted.
Thought that was someone else? But my memory at that time wasnt good as i was ill
blackstar
25-04-2017, 16:17
Thought that was someone else? But my memory at that time wasnt good as i was ill
Well it was someone else; I remember the same massive post, but it is bizarre that two people remember ME doing it! Oh well....
Sorry, I might be being forgetful or naive but which post?
My apologies - on this occasion it's me who's forgetful, as I was getting you mixed up with 'Ziggy'. However, I completely disagree with what you wrote in your previous post:
Equally, those who discuss this forum elsewhere shouldn't be castigated out of hand, because they are entitled to do so. All this inter-forum bollocks is frankly bollocks.
Easy to say, and be so apathetic about, when you're not the target of the 'discussion', and when said 'discussion' has been carrying on for years, and in reality amounts to harassment and continued (unwarranted) persecution from those unwilling to let bygones be bygones.
No-one is 'entitled' to do that. I certainly wouldn't allow it here, and I will fight it, when necessary, when received from elsewhere.
Marco.
blackstar
25-04-2017, 16:27
No worries, a lot of tfc goes through the site..
blackstar
25-04-2017, 16:30
No worries, a lot of tfc goes through the site..
However, I don't think there are many who frequent hi-fi forums who haven't been the target of someone or another with an axe to grind. The subject matter seems to set everyone off against each other, and no site is 100% innocent.
Well it was someone else; I remember the same massive post, but it is bizarre that two people remember ME doing it! Oh well....
Sorry about that, should have checked back.
However, I don't think there are many who frequent hi-fi forums who haven't been the target of someone or another with an axe to grind. The subject matter seems to set everyone off against each other, and no site is 100% innocent.
Yes, but no-one I know of has a whole section of a website virtually dedicated to 'discussing' them and/or their forum, which attracts every disgruntled malcontent on the web to join in with the (already well-established) harassment....
Furthermore, if you notice, we don't have any such section of AoS dedicated to the same, so we're simply not in the same category as the 'other forum' we're essentially both referring to. It's not a case of being "innocent'; it's about proportional response.
Let's just leave it there, please, and move on, as with respect, you can't possibly appreciate what it's like, unless you've been in an identical position on the receiving end.
Marco.
blackstar
25-04-2017, 17:50
What is "tfc"? Traffic?
Sorry, yes it is.
I've been on a different forum for 6 months , can't say which I don't think for breaking the policy here. On it I've helped over a 100 newbie people out with hi fi recommendations. I'd posted around a 1000 posts.
I had a troll which they didn't do anything about and I lost it in the last few days, and found their moderators aggravating me too in the last day. I'm a bit shamed to admit I lost it. I even sent the owner the troll message to me admitting he was trolling me. In the end I was banned and the troll stayed there.
I'm not a nasty person , I love hi fi, but I feel absolutely terrible at the moment. I've been mentally unwell with depression for some time and have tried a number of times to kill myself in the last few years with money and job worries even though at times I've done ok, I haven't for some time now.
I feel right now I want to drink myself into oblivion and throw that bloody hi fi off my balcony and me with it. All a load worth of newish pmc 25 series, cyrus signature stuff and chord cables. In fact I feel like I want to give it away for the bad feeling connected with it. I just can't believe these people on that forum would be so callous and ungrateful when I'd helped so many of their readers out.
It is a shame you have been upset by it dude. All I can say is AoS has no tolerance for such things, the trolls get banned fast. Stick around here and 'fuhgeddaboudit'.
Mate , pay no attention to the sad buggers , I had issues with trolls after doing a tv program and we were professionally advised that ignoring their comments was the only good option.
You've talked about it openly now which means you're on the track .
The guys on here are a great bunch . Stick with us .
The important thing to remember Dynamics, for your own mental health, is that their actions are little to do with you, and much more to do with their needs.
The important thing to remember Dynamics, for your own mental health, is that their actions are little to do with you, and much more to do with their needs.
Indeed, which is why you're best off ignoring them as much as you can/consider is necessary, as the more they spew their bile at you, without getting a reaction, the more ridiculous and pathetic they will look, as all they're doing is showcasing/laying bare their own mental disturbances.
Marco.
the little audio company
25-04-2017, 21:22
They're the ones with the problem, not you.
Indeed, which is why you're best off ignoring them as much as you can/consider is necessary, as the more they spew their bile at you, without getting a reaction, the more ridiculous and pathetic they will look, as all they're doing is showcasing/laying bare their own mental disturbances.
Marco.
They are deffo mental... a psychiatrist would have a hay day :D
Did you mean field day, daftee? ;)
And yet everyone can see their obvious illness but them. If they could only take a step back and see just how pathetic they look to a neutral observer, living outside of their 'world', they might reconsider their behaviour.
The fact is, their attempts at finding faults in others only serves to highlight their own, in very sharp focus!
Marco.
The important thing to remember Dynamics...
We do have a first name system in place here, you know, and his is clearly Simon... ;)
Marco.
Did you mean field day, daftee? ;)
And yet everyone can see their obvious illness but them. If they could only take a step back and see how ridiculous they look to a neutral observer, living outside of their 'world', they might reconsider their behaviour.
Marco.
yup, a hayday in the field :D
Yes, I'm rather partial to one of those..... Some rampant frolics in the haystacks :eyebrows:
Marco.
25 pages and counting. Surely the Horse is well dead?
Floyddroid
26-04-2017, 05:45
Hang on, Steve, you yourself in the past have been a victim of the very folk (and also forums) I've referenced, and have subsequently used AoS to 'discuss' the matter at length [read as have a damn good moan about it], which you were allowed to do at the time without issue.
Therefore, mate, with the greatest of respect, you're in no position to 'lecture' anyone else on having done precisely the same...
Anyway, as I've said, there will be no more negative references made about WW (from anyone), or anything else posted of an ill-tempered nature, so let's just put all that behind us and move on :cool:
Marco.
I think you may have understood me here Marco. What I was trying to say is that the thread seemed to be getting away from the original point from the original post. In hindsight I could have worded it a little better. I deny none of what you point out and feel sympathetic to the original poster.
Ok mate, gotcha - no worries :cool:
Marco.
25 pages and counting. Surely the Horse is well dead?
Bit of a thread crap, there... If you've got nothing useful to say, then say nothing, or talking of horses, you'll find a head in your bed! ;)
Marco.
Stryder5
26-04-2017, 07:20
Marco,
I seriously doubt the below, to some people behaviour such as this is the norm and as such it's impossible for them to step back and be neutral.
Their "world" is the only one, nothing exists outside this. They behave this way because, to them, there isn't another way.
Gary
Did you mean field day, daftee? ;)
And yet everyone can see their obvious illness but them. If they could only take a step back and see just how pathetic they look to a neutral observer, living outside of their 'world', they might reconsider their behaviour.
Marco.
What I find interesting is when trolls take it to the next level and delude themselves that their childishness and nastiness is providing some sort of 'public service'. I suppose it is a way of dealing with the cognitive dissonance they must occasionally experience. After all, even Hitler believed that he was actually a force for good.
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