View Full Version : Very High efficient loudspeakers
lonergan2468
31-07-2016, 15:43
Seems to be a rarity these days..are there any stand mounts out there above 95 sens.......and floor standers. My Meishu has just about run in, yes after all these months..lovely amp....but I rekon 93 sens is really not doing it justice.....
Be lucky to find standmounts. Klipsch maybe.. My full range standmounts(homemade) are more. Probably 98/100.my twins probably same actually.
lonergan2468
31-07-2016, 16:01
Your home made..what make ??????
Arkless Electronics
31-07-2016, 16:02
As a general rule, the more efficient a speaker is the bigger it must be to have any decent bass extension. Hence very efficient stand mounters are virtually non existent. If you want 95dB + efficiency and good bass extension then think small wardrobe size....
Your home made..what make ??????
Both have same telefunken drivers in.. Just the standmounts have 2. Not high watts but you dont need that as they go loud very quick. Theres pics of my latest ones on my gallery page. Just finished them a few days ago.. Quite nice sounding too ...the single driver ones are very sweet.
lonergan2468
31-07-2016, 16:21
Ok, so any reasonable priced floor standers ????
walpurgis
31-07-2016, 16:26
Take a look at the Triangle range from France Tim.
They tend to be highish efficiency and are very nicely made. Floorstanders and standmounters. Some excellent reviews about.
Zu Audio is very high sensitivity & high impedance too, so an easy easy load. Like a lot of speakers they are marmite (I think most speakers are to be honest), but is an obvious choice aside from Klipsch & single driver (probably horn loaded) speakers.
Arkless Electronics
31-07-2016, 16:34
Hoffmans Iron Law ;)
Ah, the old meatloaf song:D
lonergan2468
31-07-2016, 16:57
Looks like the floor stander KLispch....
spendorman
31-07-2016, 17:03
A friend is planning on building replica Vitavox Klipchorns, should be pretty efficient.
walpurgis
31-07-2016, 17:07
A friend is planning on building replica Vitavox Klipchorns, should be pretty efficient.
Hope he's good at carpentry. There's some serious work in making a set of those.
spendorman
31-07-2016, 17:14
Hope he's good at carpentry. There's some serious work in making a set of those.
He's pretty good, and he's got the assistance of a very well experienced model maker, plus, his Dad was the main development guy for the Vitavox Klipchorn. I remember visiting his Dad's average semi-detached house, full size Klipchorn in the smallish lounge. Would blast one out of the room on a couple of watts. Anyone remember the stated efficiency?
anubisgrau
31-07-2016, 18:40
it is not completely impossible to make a good hi eff 2-way speaker these days... there are some seriously good pro drivers, 12 or 15" with 97-98 db sensitivity. couple with beyma TH-150 (100db) and crossed around 1.2k those could make a good combo....
With these amps outputting just a couple of clean watts 96dB isn't efficient enough. I reckon you need over 100dB. I've a 4watt SECA and 96dB speakers and it still isn't enough unless you are sat close to the speakers. Any electrical crossover will sap efficiency so really a full range horn or a big, efficient (104dB plus) single driver, ideally in a very big box, are the ways to go.
lonergan2468
01-08-2016, 10:06
The meishu is 9w op
They might say 9 watt but I've noticed that makers of these low power amps do tend to exagerrate the undistorted power output. Or is that an independant measurement?
Ive a 6 watt pioneer amp, that still goes silly loud with my speaks and gets nowhere near full output. So a 9 watt valve amp will be able to run anything at 91 onwards. But the easier the better.
Yes, I can get silly loud with the 4w amp and the 96dB Akais - but the amp is well into soft clipping. Played more quietly I get a much better quality of sound. I don't see the point of having a low powered valve amp and clipping it all the time. Get more power or more efficient speakers.
It becomes so much easier splitting a 2-way. The current speakers I run are not listed below....they are baffleless, the wideband single driver is 94db and directly connected the amp (no crossover). The dual 15 inch basses are driven via a class D amp with DSP, this crosses over at 300Hz 12db. The wideband works better with the DC blocking cap set to filter frequencies below 400Hz but this is only really beneficial when playing very demanding music very loudly. The basses have room correction applied and "dynamic eq" which operates somewhat like a loudness control, turning up the bass at low volume. It's more more complex to set up than a simple 2-way all-in-one speaker but ultimately it's a heck of a lot more flexible. This way too I can use a relatively low power amp for the wideband speaker.
Yes, I can get silly load with the 4w amp and the 96dB Akais - but the amp is well into soft clipping. Played more quietly I get a much better quality of sound. I don't see the point of having a low powered valve amp and clipping it all the time. Get more power or more efficient speakers.
Depends how loud you want it i guess...my drivers are only 8watt rated. Amp is d type and produces a lot so ive to be careful not to turn it up too high.
Clive I agree that that is a very flexible set up and makes sense on a number of levels. What would you say, though, to those who reckon the digital processing kills the sound? I don't have enough experience with it myself to say one way or the other.
Clive I agree that that is a very flexible set up and makes sense on a number of levels. What would you say, though, to those who reckon the digital processing kills the sound? I don't have enough experience with it myself to say one way or the other.
I don't have enough experience with DSP in the mid to be able to comment on that....the mid is where I want purity so I keep it simple. As for DSP on the bass, if you need to control room modes (mine are bad as the room is close to square with a low ceiling) then DSP can only be a far lesser evil than a bad room. I'm getting totally stunning bass from bafflesless bass drivers, even a small (open) baffle seems to impart colouration. The speakers look a little "functional".
Here's a poor photo with our puppy exiting the room to avoid the bass.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/cmeakins/mB_zpsxpus5fb1.jpeg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cmeakins/media/mB_zpsxpus5fb1.jpeg.html)
Looks interesting - but how do you avoid putting the midrange though the DSP when there is only one driver for both?
Looks interesting - but how do you avoid putting the midrange though the DSP when there is only one driver for both?
The 15 inchers are the bass drivers with the XO in the bass DSP amp set to 300Hz. The small driver on top of the bass driver is the wideband driver driven by a Bantam One amp. The photo is not too clear....
I understand now. You did explain that earlier, in fact. WAF is through the floor, but who cares? And it does all make perfect sense. The full range driver is just run full range but the open baffle will roll of whatever little bass it does do so you won't get any overlap I guess.
Sovereign
01-08-2016, 17:21
Interesting Clive, would you be able to describe the sound of the speakers?
Thanks.
I understand now. You did explain that earlier, in fact. WAF is through the floor, but who cares? And it does all make perfect sense. The full range driver is just run full range but the open baffle will roll of whatever little bass it does do so you won't get any overlap I guess.
WAF is a lost cause with these! The wideband starts to roll off at 1kHz, the bass filtered at 300Hz with a 12db slope results in nice straight line when I measure with my calibrated mic.
My experience with DSP is that results are in general quality/cost related. Cheap systems are little more than exotic graphic equalisers, but systems like TACT take microphone measurements of room imperfections and offer you a range of solutions which you listen to and perhaps tweak in order to perfect the right settings. Some TACT systems allow control of separate subs and crossovers. I found that any minor drop in absolute sound quality was more than compensated for by getting the Hi Fi to play properly in the room.
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