View Full Version : Historic day for Great Britain!
Ninanina
24-06-2016, 03:48
:yay::yay::yay:
:champagne:
Correct decision made :D
We shall see.
The pound has now plummeted, and Britain could now be in for a mini recession. You may be in for a bumpy ride for a few years. Time will tell.
Good luck with it.
Bye bye EU. Don't call us - we'll call you!
Rejoice, rejoice!
Never really thought it would happen but even though I have to go to work nothing can spoil this day.
You lose Progressives! There are more of us than there are of you. Thank God.
Firebottle
24-06-2016, 07:01
Whether you like it or not a change was required IMO.
well done ! I didn't think people would have the courage to leave ! Not the easiest move but the right one IMO.
Now, the EU politicians will go out of their way to make the exit as painful as they possibly can.
Yes, rejoice!
Thank God people didn't listen to the project fear mongers.
I see 'Brave heart' Scotland bottled it. Hmmm...
So Brexit wins.... I wasn't expecting that. It'll be interesting to see what happens now, but it'll be a long time before us (ordinary citizens) genuinely feel the impact of that decision.
Anyway, chinless wonder Cameron's off (just resigned), boo-hoo (not), but we might end up with Boris Johnson instead... Would that be an upgrade or a downgrade - or perhaps a side-grade? :hmm:
Let's hope botty-spank, coke-boy Osborne goes ta-ta, too.... :wave:
Now.... BRING ON the SCOTTISH REFERENDUM, TAKE II!! :yesbruv: :yesbruv:
http://imageshack.com/a/img923/5373/U0JPuM.gif (https://imageshack.com/i/pnU0JPuMg)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
24-06-2016, 07:37
Ulster and Scotland are now disenfranchised re what their people want, time for them to sort their futures out.
This is the beginning of the end, well done for screwing us all :( :steam: I hope each and everyone of us can cope with the financial shit storm that has begun, the pound will be worthless and that will effect us all, that though is only the beginning.
anubisgrau
24-06-2016, 07:44
Thanks for the vote, now us buyers from eurozone will have a cheap UK audio. Congrats!
jandl100
24-06-2016, 07:46
Free doom is right, Marco. :doh:
Time to climb a tree and pull it up after me, the wife and the cats.
I'll come back down in 2 or 3 years time.
Lol... Nah, we'll all be fine and dandy, mate.
As usual with these things, short-term pain for long-term gain - or more likely, for ordinary folks, a big 'hoo-hah' over nothing and 'hee-haw' REAL difference made to our lives. Just get on with your normal day to day existence, and worry not. That's precisely what I'll be doing! :exactly:
[Jumps back inside his 'safety bubble']
Marco.
Thanks for the vote, now us buyers from eurozone will have a cheap UK audio. Congrats!
Yup - buy now! Loads of it, please:) Spendy, spend, spend.
Oldpinkman
24-06-2016, 07:57
Absolutely. Rejoice.
The UK public (actually the English, not the Scots or Northern Irish) have voted Not to Remain in the EU as members with a vote.
Now we find out what they are going to do instead, but there are broadly 3 options
1) "April fool" as promised by Boris Johnson once in this campaign (but a BJ promise is worth what exactly?). Namely - go back to the EU with a really powerful mandate to negotiate from the British people and get a much better membership deal than Cameron got. The EU response will be 2 words (they have already made that clear) and the initials don't stand for Foreign Office
2) Go the WTO route - invoke article 50, insist on control of borders, lose all existing member rights in Europe, hire squadrons of lawyers at huge cost to rewrite all UK legislation, negotiate a trade treaty with the EU, maybe, and with every other major trading partner. The problem is this means a significant loss of the City of London (they don't need a trade treaty - they need membership passporting rights) - maybe as much as 1/3. 1/3 of the £65 billion taxes raised from the City is probably unaffordable to balancing our budget, but 1/3 of our £200bn invisible earnings is utterly devastating to the balance of payments. That's a long winded way of saying "not going to happen"
3) EEA membership or its direct equivalent, dressed up to pretend its not. The critical element would be sufficient participation in Europe to enable the continuation of passporting for City firms. In simple terms this means that a bank in the UK can trade in any EU country without having to set up a separate operation in that country. This is vital to the City . And EEA membership (or equivalent) means all the rules - absolutely non-negotiably cricitically that means free movement of people and no control of borders, Big financial contributions with no rebates and no return investment, and legislating all EU laws (like Norway does). But losing the vote - and losing all Anglo Saxon influence on EU rule making
One of those must be very attractive - so Rejoice. I am pretty sure it will be EEA membership - so I should still be able to bring a boot full of booze back to the UK when I visit, but will live in an EU, with England, without English influence :(
Meantime expect the Scots to vote for independence, and pray for peace in Northern Ireland - and pray the EU stays intact and provides peace in the rest of Europe too
There isn't going to be an EU - only us and The Germans were paying for it. We have taken the ball and gone home. It will now unravel.
Oldpinkman
24-06-2016, 08:03
well done ! I didn't think people would have the courage to leave ! Not the easiest move but the right one IMO.
Now, the EU politicians will go out of their way to make the exit as painful as they possibly can.
They won't need to. The pain is fundamental to article 50 and the multiple treaties signed by the UK over the last 40 odd years. They just won't pretend to do anything to help and focus instead on preserving the remainder of the EU. Anyway - I still expect England not to leave Europe but to join the EEA .
Oldpinkman
24-06-2016, 08:04
There isn't going to be an EU - only us and The Germans were paying for it. We have taken the ball and gone home. It will now unravel.
I sincerely hope you are wrong. That would almost certainly lead to another devastating war within 20 years - probably much sooner. At least we now get to find out how little you understand about how the world works. Hang up your "business as usual" notice. It won't happen
The UK public (actually the English, not the Scots or Northern Irish) have voted Not to Remain in the EU as members with a vote.
Does Wales not exist?
Marco.
There isn't going to be an EU - only us and The Germans were paying for it. We have taken the ball and gone home. It will now unravel.
Interesting point ;)
Marco.
anubisgrau
24-06-2016, 08:09
What really strikes me is that some don't see how the UK has already been privileged in the UE (currency, borders, foreign policy) and now expecting to continue having that just without formal obligations when in an union.
Not sure you understand what LEAVE means in a full glory, maybe some of the divorced here can share an experience or two.
What really strikes me is that some don't see how the UK has already been privileged in the UE (currency, borders, foreign policy) and now expecting to continue having that just without formal obligations when in an union. Not sure you understand what LEAVE means in a full glory, maybe some of the divorced here can share an experience or two.
British farming, and the British fishing industry has been ruined due to joining the EU, or as it was called then the EEC.
And then there was the financial disaster of black Wednesday.
Spain has done particularly well out of EU membership though....
twickers
24-06-2016, 08:23
There isn't going to be an EU - only us and The Germans were paying for it. We have taken the ball and gone home. It will now unravel.
Agree can't see Germany and France propping everyone up. Remain campaign flawed. The only one using non scaremongering tactics was Nicola Sturgeon.
walpurgis
24-06-2016, 08:26
No more straight cucumbers then.
Whichever way the vote might have gone, there would have been good and bad aspects to the outcome and for the future.
At least the threat of TTIP is removed. For us at least and in anything resembling its current form. No doubt there'll be a year or two of actually 'leaving' and adjustment. Lets see what benefit may come. It can't be all bad, even though we will still have a Conservative government for a while (presumably).
Lets hope common sense rules where British expats are concerned. The significant numbers living in France and Spain for instance, face a period of uncertaintly, that's for sure. Hopefully suitable reciprocal arrangements will be made.
Oldpinkman
24-06-2016, 08:35
Does Wales not exist?
Marco.
You're right. I forgot the Faroe Islands too
walpurgis
24-06-2016, 08:36
I hope we don't see too much self righteous gloating. There will be some who are genuinely upset about Brexit.
Me? I don't give a huge toss one way or the other. But I did vote.
I'm just glad to see Cameron falling on his sword - fair cheered up my day, that has! Tory WANKAZ :D
Another one in the eye for the establishment.... Let's hope that Coke-boy follows suit, and fast! Taxi for Osborne... :hotrod:
Marco.
As usual its what England wants we do. Rest of uk might as well not bother. Ah well, that,s my future secured then
:bog:
Not at all. The Scottish referendum 'take 2' is imminent (after which you'll rejoin the EU) - and THIS time, independence for Scotland will happen, and you'll rid yourselves from years of English oppression!! :trust:
Marco.
walpurgis
24-06-2016, 08:47
I'm just glad to see Cameron falling on his sword - fair cheered up my day, that has! Tory WANKAZ :D
Another one in the eye for the establishment.... Let's hope Coke-boy follows suit, and fast! Taxi for Osborne... :hotrod:
Marco.
Boris for PM? We might as well get a comical outcome to all this.
As for Osborne. Well I think he's still indoors, waiting for his mum to comb his hair and put his jim-jams and teddy away.
Lol! Do you think that mummy spanks his boteee, when he's been a bad, bad boy, and that makes his 'wee wiener' stand to attention? :spank: :spank:
:lol: :eyebrows:
It's simply hilarious, and extremely satisfying, that Cameron's 'chinless reign supreme', as prime minister, has been cut short by four years, when the smarmy Etonian tit thought he'd be able to lord it over us for a damn sight longer...
Tough luck, shweety! :D :finger:
Marco.
Not at all. The Scottish referendum 'take 2' is imminent (after which you'll rejoin the EU) - and THIS time, independence for Scotland will happen, and you'll rid yourselves from years of English oppression!! :trust:
Marco.
Better the devil you know?
Maybe... I just can't stand Cameron, so the fact that he's been FORCED to stand down, and no longer gets to be 'top dog', is deeply satisfying :)
Perhaps he'll take up knitting now or something?
Marco.
I hope the fair people of Scotland don't listen to JK Rowling, and then end in a financial death grip like Greece
anubisgrau
24-06-2016, 09:02
I hope the fair people of Scotland don't listen to JK Rowling, and then end in a financial death grip like Greece
It sounds you don't know much about history of Greece.
Sounds like you have no counter argument, only ad hominem
walpurgis
24-06-2016, 09:11
So when do we get de-decimalisation then?
Spectral Morn
24-06-2016, 09:12
Passions are running high - lets play the ball not the person. Don't let this thread turn nasty.
anubisgrau
24-06-2016, 09:17
Sounds like you have no counter argument, only ad hominem
Have no time for lessons but history of Greek economic debts is decades or even centuries older than the EU itself. You can start from here http://qz.com/440058/the-complete-history-of-the-greek-debt-drama-in-charts/ and carry on if you are interested in that.
If there is anything to talk first is how Greece actually got into the EU and consequently into the eurozone.
Your comment about Scottish people wasn't very nice, I'm sure they will be able to see what is best for them just as the UK did.
walpurgis
24-06-2016, 09:30
France will want to leave next, followed by Germany. The remainder of the EU will slowly crumble and eventually implode and Europe will become steadily more unstable and world politics will be a pretty volatile thing. Or more so than it is.
Have no time for lessons but history of Greek economic debts is decades or even centuries older than the EU itself. You can start from here http://qz.com/440058/the-complete-history-of-the-greek-debt-drama-in-charts/ and carry on if you are interested in that.
If there is anything to talk first is how Greece actually got into the EU and consequently into the eurozone.
Your comment about Scottish people wasn't very nice, I'm sure they will be able to see what is best for them just as the UK did.
You have now moved on to being mischievous by saying I’m not being nice to Scottish people – nothing of the sought!
I’m simply expressing my hope that the good people of Scotland remain in the union and don’t get entangled in the Euro and end up like the (unfortunately named) PIGS countries.
Greece is in a terrible financial mess due to the EU and Euro, irrespective of its financial history, so are other countries, so I don’t need linky to figure that one out.
Of course it still has to be passed by parliament which is not a gimmie. Also the Tories could call a snap election and if whoever wins rode the stay ticket, could override the ref result. I dont see Scotland leaving uk. In fact i agree with the poster before that to join as a new member for a country Scotlands size would be perilous.....
So when do we get de-decimalisation then?
That would be fun, no need for Sudoku once we get back on to shillings etc :-)
anubisgrau
24-06-2016, 09:35
ah sorry i couldn't foresee you are using that PIGS word, i would certainly stay away from replying
France will want to leave next, followed by Germany. The remainder of the EU will slowly crumble and eventually implode and Europe will become steadily more unstable and world politics will be a pretty volatile thing. Or more so than it is.
...but we'll all likely be dead by then, Geoff, so who cares? ;)
Let the next generation worry about it!
Just enjoy your life for its remainder, as best you can [which in all likelihood will be minimally affected by the result of this referendum], and worry not about what happens afterwards, as there's 'hee-haw' you can do about it. A simple outlook, perhaps, but nevertheless a worry-free and effective one :cool:
Marco.
Massive decision , massive result. I never expected to feel a bit lost this morning even though I voted Out , no rejoicing , but for me a feeling that it was so close .
People worried for countless different reasons and some not it seems.
Politicians warped and wefted all over the place
The other point of note is that the poll started, by Macca, on the old (locked) thread, predicting the outcome, was right! ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
24-06-2016, 10:25
A disaster of epic proportions for the UK... the racist bigots have got their way, and that's what this was really all about.
Sorry Jez, but labelling all who were against being in the EU as "racist bigots" is not reasonable.
...but we'll all likely be dead by then, Geoff, so who cares?
Let the next generation worry about it!
Are you really that selfish and shallow Marco?
I may not like the result, but I would hope the majority voted the way they did because they believed it was in the country’s best interest, not just their own.
hifi_dave
24-06-2016, 10:28
A great day for the UK and the start of the end of the EU.
At least we get rid of dodgy Dave and can hope for a Labour government before long and Scottish independence...
Hear, hear - although I can 'take or leave' a Labour government ;) Corbyn, however exhibits a level of humility and humaneness, unusual in a politician, which I admire.
Marco.
...but we'll all likely be dead by then, Geoff, so who cares? ;)
Let the next generation worry about it!
Just enjoy your life for its remainder, as best you can [which in all likelihood will be minimally affected by the result of this referendum], and worry not about what happens afterwards, as there's 'hee-haw' you can do about it. A simple outlook, perhaps, but nevertheless a stress-free and effective one :cool:
Marco.
There speaks someone with no children! Unfortunately we have been doing exactly this for decades which is why I fear my grandsons may never be able to own their own homes nor afford to go to university...
Are you really that selfish and shallow Marco?
I may not like the result, but I would hope the majority voted the way they did because they believed it was in the country’s best interest, not just their own.
Not selfish and shallow, Nick, but simply pragmatic. I just don't worry or get 'het up' over what I have little control over, and which in all likelihood will have little effect on me for the remainder of my time left on this planet.
Oh, and btw, I voted 'Stay', simply because I consider myself as European, not British, and I had to vote for something.
Marco.
There speaks someone with no children! Unfortunately we have been doing exactly this for decades which is why I fear my grandsons may never be able to own their own homes nor afford to go to university...
Well that's fine, Dave. You worry about it, then - and in the circumstances, I respect your right to worry. In return, respect my right to feel differently :)
Marco.
Audio Al
24-06-2016, 10:35
Sturgeon is now suggesting a 2nd referendum as some people may change their minds :rolleyes::eek:
and which in all likelihood will have little effect on me for the remainder of my time left on this planet.
So that’s yes then.
Lol... Interpret it how you like. So are you saying that I'm not entitled to my opinion, and that I should just shut up?
Marco.
Tbh i think majorty of folk voted due to how it would affect them. That includes any offspring if you have any. Not evveryone by any means but self survival is a natural instict
Lol... Interpret it how you like. So are you saying that I'm not entitled to my opinion, and that I should just shut up?
Marco.
No, I just think your opinion is small minded and rather sad.
Tbh i think majorty of folk voted due to how it would affect them. That includes any offspring if you have any. Not evveryone by any means but self survival is a natural instict
Indeed. I don't give a toss how folks voted, or why. However, I respect their right to feel passionately about it, one way or the other. What I don't respect is when folk resent how YOU honestly feel, simply because they don't like the sentiments behind it.
Fuck that shit. I'll say what I like politely, when I like, to whomever I like, and if some folk don't like that, too bad! :ner:
As the saying goes: 'Dry your eyes and get over it' ;)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
24-06-2016, 10:44
Sturgeon is now suggesting a 2nd referendum as some people may change their minds :rolleyes::eek:
Yes to leave the UK. Not on EU membership.
Arkless Electronics
24-06-2016, 10:45
Sorry Jez, but labelling all who were against being in the EU as "racist bigots" is not reasonable.
That's your opinion. I would say that at least 70% who voted out are just that. Also that the lower the IQ the more likely to vote out.... It's the whole Alf Garnet thing.... They even think that Syrians, Eritreans etc will stop coming here now even though that had nowt to do with the EU. I have overheard enough conversations and even been involved in enough to know that yes, racism and bigotry were the driving force behind this disastrous referendum
It leaves me creasing up with laughter and at the same time angry when I read thickos going on about "independence", "sovereignty" etc.... as if they themselves will have any more of either! all it means is less checks and balances to what the government want to do. I predict that if we keep a Tory gov then changes to working time directives etc will start to creep in and allow bosses to force people to work for longer hours etc :steam:
anubisgrau
24-06-2016, 10:45
i'd love to meet one person voting leave who could clearly know how this will affect them.
if anything, leave is an emotional vote. rule britannia, britannia rules the waves...
No, I just think your opinion is small minded and rather sad.
That's great. Got any more personal insults - and should I now return the favour?
You see, that's the problem with threads such as this, and why I detest hosting them: because when you express how you honestly feel, some folk just can't handle it, without starting the mud slinging!
Now, Nick, I suggest you leave it there and we get back to discussing the topic of the thread, not personalities. Any further deviance from that will not only be removed, but will result in the thread being locked.
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
24-06-2016, 10:49
i'd love to meet one person voting leave who could clearly know how this will affect them.
if anything, leave is an emotional vote. rule britannia, britannia rules the waves...
Exactly! Knee jerk, reactionary, jingoistic.... THICK. the blue rinse brigade will be planning on retaking the Raj next....
Was interesting to note that all Scottish regions were possibly for first time, UNITED in their desire to remain in the EU. That kind of unity, if it starts spreading could perhaps change the thinking of the world.
Many French voices calling for them to follow suit, and Germany is saying its a potential disaster for THEM.
you see how self interest is everywhere.
Pieoftheday
24-06-2016, 10:51
Sturgeon is now suggesting a 2nd referendum as some people may change their minds :olleyes::eek:
Very odd,Sturgeon reckons Scotland voted to remain so she's not happy,but Scotland voted to remain in the UK,and it was a UK referendum:steam:
Exactly! Knee jerk, reactionary, jingoistic.... THICK. the blue rinse brigade will be planning on retaking the Raj next....
Enough, Jez.
I'm going to lock this thread temporarily until certain people calm down, after which I *may* decide to reopen it, ONLY *if* EVERYONE taking part in this discussion refrains from making personal insults, just because you dislike what's being said, which simply isn't on.
Learn to CHILL, and not to be angered/irked or annoyed by someone else's honest opinions and/or opposing political views! :doh: :rolleyes:
Marco.
Ok, I'm reopening this thread on the STRICT understanding that:
a) this is not a place to seethe, "vent spleen" or insult those of a different political persuasion/mindset from you. Therefore, no-one is a "thicko", or "small-minded" simply because they don't sign up to your 'world view'!
b) other than that, you can say what you like, as long as:
1) it's polite and doesn't personally insult any members participating in or reading this discussion.
2) your argument/political stance 'plays the BALL, not the MAN', which is essentially 1), only expressed differently.
c) TOLERANCE and RESPECT is shown towards others at ALL times, no matter whether you agree or disagree with them. Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean that you're entitled to insult or belittle them. This a core part of 'Our Ethos'. Please see that section of the forum for further details.
All I was essentially saying earlier is that the outcome of the referendum didn't really bother me, as it likely won't affect me much (or those close to me) during my/our remaining lifetime: an opinion I'm perfectly entitled to hold, and more importantly, should be allowed to express freely, without being derided or insulted for it.
Posts that are deemed as contrary to the above, or are made in relation to anything other than the thread topic, will deleted without further warning, and the authors banned for the minimum of one week, after which the thread will be locked permanently. For its duration, however, the thread will be strictly moderated on that basis.
The above rules are not up for debate and will shortly be made into an announcement and posted at the top of this section of the forum, which will then apply to ALL political discussions here in future.
Most importantly, do remember that it's not your views being censored. Short of anyone admitting that they're a Neo-Nazi, closet ISIS sympathiser or something of that ilk, we care not a jot how anyone votes or what their political stance is - but simply how views are expressed.
If you can't observe the above and behave calmly and civilly, then walk away and stick to participating in hi-fi discussions, where incidentally, the exact same rules apply!!
Ok, that's it. Please carry on now with discussing solely the THREAD TOPIC, and play nicely! :cool:
Marco.
Winner winner chicken dinner !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Virtual-Symmetry
24-06-2016, 17:03
All we need is Harold Wilson re born & the countries a good un..
Exactly! Knee jerk, reactionary, jingoistic.... THICK. the blue rinse brigade will be planning on retaking the Raj next....
Methinks you'll find the Raj has taken over Land Rover with more acquisitions to come, Brexit will make additional acquisitions sorry trade easier now.
Virtual-Symmetry
24-06-2016, 17:07
I wonder how many people were actually thinking about their selfish selves & not the country as a whole when voting to stay in?
The same could be said about all those who voted.
Virtual-Symmetry
24-06-2016, 17:16
Were you thinking about your country Barry because i know i was.
Were you thinking about your country Barry because i know i was.
I was think about the future for others, not for myself.
Methinks you'll find the Raj has taken over Land Rover with more acquisitions to come, Brexit will make additional acquisitions sorry trade easier now.
Hi "shuggz",
First of all, what's your real first name? When you first joined the forum, supplying such info wasn't mandatory. It is now, so please add it to your profile.
Secondly, please don't quote parts of posts that can no longer be replied to, due to the new rules imposed on political discussions.
Marco.
Were you thinking about your country Barry because i know i was.
Yes, but through the eyes of your own political, moral and social biases, therefore dude, essentially using the same criteria as everyone else ;)
Marco.
Virtual-Symmetry
24-06-2016, 17:34
Old boy crying on the TV saying he cant believe he's got his country back..
Sturgeon is now suggesting a 2nd referendum as some people may change their minds :rolleyes::eek:
Could be a good idea to have it sooner rather than later. But posing the question very carefully. Perhaps asking the Scots if they want to let England leave the Union.
If, legally, Scotland retains the Union and England and Wales leave/secede instead, then membership of the EU (plus all rights and obligations) rests with the residual state and Scotland could continue without having to negotiate re-entry to the Union, which is what would happen if Scotland left the Union. So no need to trigger Clause 50 and we've done the Scots a parting favour...
Just thinking....
I was think about the future for others, not for myself.
Same goes for you, Barry, as I've said to Andre.
How can you judge what's best for the future of others without simultaneously applying your own judgement filter, thus adding bias? You cannot possibly know that the results arising from applying said 'judgement filter' are best for the future of others ;)
Furthermore, how do you know what "others" want in the first place? If you don't know that, you can't judge what is 'best' for them.
The reality is that you may have set out with said enviable goal, but ultimately have simply voted for what YOU wanted or considered was 'best'... :)
Marco.
Same goes for you, Barry, as I've said to Andre.
How can you judge what's best for the future of others without simultaneously applying your own judgement filter? And furthermore, how do you know that the results arising from that 'judgement filter' are the best for the future of others? ;)
The reality is that you may have set out with such an enviable goal, but ultimately have simply voted for what YOU want... :)
Marco.
Well that applies to everyone who voted, which was what I said in my first post.
Nope, you said:
I was think about the future for others, not for myself.
However you cut it, we've all voted for what WE consider is best, and hence directly or indirectly, for ourselves and what best facilitates our particular political beliefs :)
Few, if any of us, has the ability to think of what's best for others, and crucially, get it right, unless we can climb inside their heads and tap into their belief system... ;)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
24-06-2016, 17:54
Early next week all car owners will feel the pain of their vote, if it was leave. Fuel costs are to rise, oil is paid in dollars and guess what the pound is screwed against the dollar, will it hit a pound dollar rate again, who knows.
Come winter time heating oil prices will be crazy, if the trend continues re the pound. Price of goods will rise, all goods, transport costs will rise.
This is the start :(
Hi "shuggz",
First of all, what's your real first name? When you first joined the forum, supplying such info wasn't mandatory. It is now, so please add it to your profile.
Secondly, please don't quote parts of posts that can no longer be replied to, due to the new rules imposed on political discussions.
Marco.Well when I replied the post was there :scratch: has it been purged? anyway fair enough I won't bother for future reference.
Early next week all car owners will feel the pain of their vote, if it was leave. Fuel costs are to rise, oil is paid in dollars and guess what the pound is screwed against the dollar, will it hit a pound dollar rate again, who knows.
Come winter time heating oil prices will be crazy, if the trend continues re the pound. Price of goods will rise, all goods, transport costs will rise.
This is the start :(
I'm expecting to be priced out of life. I kid thee not.:(
Spectral Morn
24-06-2016, 18:09
I'm expecting to be priced out of life. I kid thee not.:(
I know what you mean. :( Things are going to get tough, well its looking that way.
Well when I replied the post was there :scratch: has it been purged? anyway fair enough I won't bother for future reference.
Ok. So what's your real first name. Please put it on your profile. The rule applies to everyone, so I can't make you an exception.
Marco.
Nope, you said:
However you cut it, we've all voted for what WE consider is best, and hence directly or indirectly for ourselves and what best facilitates our particular political beliefs :)
Few, if any of us, has the ability to think of what's best for others, and crucially, get it right, unless we can climb inside their heads ;)
Marco.
My first post in this thread was:
The same could be said about all those who voted.
So why did you make a point of stating that you were voting in the best interests of the country/others, as if your actions were different, if you were simply doing the same as all those who voted? :scratch:
Marco.
Ninanina
24-06-2016, 18:57
I should maybe point out that I did not actually start this thread, it's just that my first post was moved from somewhere else and this thread was started... I don't mind at all though..
All I keep thinking about is curly cucumbers and that sounds very interesting to me .... :eek: :scratch::scratch: :D :lol:
André asked if, when I voted, I was thinking of my country. I wasn't, I was thinking about those who would be living here after me, rather than thinking about what was best for me.
As you have pointed out, all responses must at best be considered, and so (at least unconciously) be self-centred, and difficult to be detached and objective.
BTH K10A
24-06-2016, 19:06
well done ! I didn't think people would have the courage to leave ! Not the easiest move but the right one IMO.
Now, the EU politicians will go out of their way to make the exit as painful as they possibly can.
I think they will seek to make the UK's exit happen as quickly as possible which is why they want Article 50 asap.
Where they will make it very difficult is in any trade agreement with them. If we get a good deal with little pain it could possibly act as a catalyst for others to seek to leave the EU so I just cannot see that happening.
I think they will seek to make the UK's exit happen as quickly as possible which is why they want Article 50 asap.
Where they will make it very difficult is in any trade agreement with them. If we get a good deal with little pain it could possibly act as a catalyst for others to seek to leave the EU so I just cannot see that happening.
with a bit more renegotiation it could easily be stopped; but I guess that would be too easy:rolleyes:
BTH K10A
24-06-2016, 19:28
with a bit more renegotiation it could easily be stopped; but I guess that would be too easy:rolleyes:
I think it's too,late for that, the predictions of the "fear mongers" seem to be coming to pass with some big companies planning their exit strategies.
I just hope the future of our younger generation has not been sold down the river on a "leap of faith"
I think it's too,late for that, the predictions of the "fear mongers" seem to be coming to pass with some big companies planning their exit strategies.
"
Likely a rumour started to influence the markets.
I was reading AA Gills piece in The Times and he referred to what he called 'Peak Blighty' - some imaginary point in the past were we had it all perfect and those voting to leave wanted to do so in order to somehow get that back.
Of course he was being critical but I think he pretty much nails it. That's what those of us who voted leave want.
Guess it depends how much they want us. TBH, the EU is doomed without us I think. Germany is bricking it as we are one, if not their top customer. To just destroy that to save face is illogical and stupid. Germans are not known for that.
In a couple of months the dust will settle and the plans that are being formulated all over will be brought out. If not then I will likely be dead meat a bit quicker that I planned.
Alas, as is oft in the political world, when your Scottish, you get voted out by your bigger brother
Spectral Morn
24-06-2016, 19:49
Likely a rumour started to influence the markets.
I was reading AA Gills piece in The Times and he referred to what he called 'Peak Blighty' - some imaginary point in the past were we had it all perfect and those voting to leave wanted to do so in order to somehow get that back.
Of course he was being critical but I think he pretty much nails it. That's what those of us who voted leave want.
Channel 4 news, all the EU leaders and ex leaders interviewed are furious. They are going to string the UK up and beat the shit out of us all. One Polish guy said he felt betrayed. His Dad fought here in the war, he said no more will Polish pilots shed blood and die for you.
There will be no 3 months, or two years the EU is going to kick us to the curb asap. The next few days and weeks news is going to be very hard to watch.
It's all talk. It is a bar and there are only two blokes buying all the drinks. One just said he has to leave. That isn't going to make him popular.
There's gratitude for you eh? Save Europe twice, and now we are worse than scum. So be it
walpurgis
24-06-2016, 20:09
It's done now. We'd best be positive and get on with it. Blubbering about things or criticising people who had opposing opinions is pointless.
It's done now. We'd best be positive and get on with it. Blubbering about things or criticising people who had opposing opinions is pointless.
Kinda what I said ;)
Indeed. We need lots of positive waves from everyone. There will be upsides. Personally I'm looking forward to being able to buy an insanely powerful vacuum cleaner. A V8, probably.
anubisgrau
24-06-2016, 20:18
André asked if, when I voted, I was thinking of my country. I wasn't, I was thinking about those who would be living here after me, rather than thinking about what was best for me.
You probably thought the youngs have no clue....?
http://i4.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article11420765.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/polls2.jpg
btw
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/0028/production/_88104000_eu_polling_by_education_624.png
anubisgrau
24-06-2016, 20:24
Guess it depends how much they want us. TBH, the EU is doomed without us I think. Germany is bricking it as we are one, if not their top customer. To just destroy that to save face is illogical and stupid. Germans are not known for that.
In a couple of months the dust will settle and the plans that are being formulated all over will be brought out. If not then I will likely be dead meat a bit quicker that I planned.
Alas, as is oft in the political world, when your Scottish, you get voted out by your bigger brother
You can answer once for a correct german priority between kicking City out of a sight of the EU financial markets for good or being afraid of having sales tax on Merz in the UK.
twickers
24-06-2016, 20:24
Indeed. We need lots of positive waves from everyone. There will be upsides. Personally I'm looking forward to being able to buy an insanely powerful vacuum cleaner. A V8, probably.
Although it could be insanely expensive.
You probably thought the youngs have no clue....?
http://i4.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article11420765.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/polls2.jpg
btw
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/0028/production/_88104000_eu_polling_by_education_624.png
Not at all. Why do you think that?
A few ways you can interpret those stats.
Older people are wiser so more voted to leave.
Poorly educated people are not happy with the status quo. Well educated people are.
The second one is quite indicative.
hifilover
24-06-2016, 20:40
It's a real sh*t storm over on the Wam re this; some real throwing of toys out of the pram over there and if you're with the vote-out side; you're utter scum, basically!
I've even witnessed pathetic/childish behaviour over on LinkedIn re this; I've had numerous 'connections' delete me and block me because I've voiced my opinion on the out-side and why I feel its happened and what it means etc
Very sad really!
It's now time for this Great country to stand on its own 2 feet once again and show them why we're Great Britain and why we can manage without them and don't need the EU nanny-state to hold our hands any more or give us permission every time we want to play out!!!
walpurgis
24-06-2016, 20:43
It's a real sh*t storm over on the Wam re this; some real throwing of toys out of the pram over there and if you're with the vote-out side; you're utter scum, basically!
I've even witnessed pathetic/childish behaviour over on LinkedIn re this; I've had numerous 'connections' delete me and block me because I've voiced my opinion on the out-side and why I feel its happened and what it means etc
Ah. That'll be the British spirit of 'democracy' at work then.
Interestingly Survivors series I'm watching is at the stage where some want a federal connection between surviving groups and others want separation.
Re folks behaviour, its not overly surprising, judging by how folk here behaved.
André asked if, when I voted, I was thinking of my country. I wasn't, I was thinking about those who would be living here after me, rather than thinking about what was best for me.
As you have pointed out, all responses must at best be considered, and so (at least unconciously) be self-centred, and difficult to be detached and objective.
Exactly, thereby consigning your previous point to, at best, moot ;)
Marco.
BTH K10A
24-06-2016, 21:06
Likely a rumour started to influence the markets.
I was reading AA Gills piece in The Times and he referred to what he called 'Peak Blighty' - some imaginary point in the past were we had it all perfect and those voting to leave wanted to do so in order to somehow get that back.
Of course he was being critical but I think he pretty much nails it. That's what those of us who voted leave want.
I wish it was just rumour but the Euro clearing houses will have no option and the other financial institutions will want a passport into the eurozone.
Unfortunately for those of us who are not Time Lords time marches on. Yearning for idyllic those pre EEC times when life was full of the joys of 3 day weeks, widespread strikes, refuse piling up in the streets, frequent electricity cuts rampant racism etc. Oh the sheer joy of it. :rolleyes:
Unless of course you are referring back to the days of the British Empire where we we just took by force whatever we wanted.
Alas, as is oft in the political world, when your Scottish, you get voted out by your bigger brother
Precisely! Why do you think I go on about English CONTROL from Westmonster [typo delberate]? ;)
That's why you guys need independence, so you can say 'Fuck 'em' and do what's BEST for SCOTLAND and the SCOTTISH PEOPLE, not that chinless lot in London! :exactly:
Marco.
I wish it was just rumour but the Euro clearing houses will have no option and the other financial institutions will want a passport into the eurozone.
Unfortunately for those of us who are not Time Lords time marches on. Yearning for idyllic those pre EEC times when life was full of the joys of 3 day weeks, widespread strikes, refuse piling up in the streets, frequent electricity cuts rampant racism etc. Oh the sheer joy of it. :rolleyes:
Unless of course you are referring back to the days of the British Empire where we we just took by force whatever we wanted.
I'm old enough to remember the power cuts and the strikes and so forth. That's not what I'm talking about at all. I agree with A A Gill that Peak Blighty never existed. But there was a time when we were at least looking for it. I'd like to at least get back to looking for it.
I appreciate that is not very specific. I didn't think leave had a hope in hell of winning so I never really analysed before why I voted out. I don't think the real reason is at all tangible.
There will be no 3 months, or two years the EU is going to kick us to the curb asap. The next few days and weeks news is going to be very hard to watch.
Lol... Ever the drama queen, Neil! ;)
Chillax, bro...Somehow I think that I'll be able to sleep as soundly tonight as ever, and life for most of us will continue to go on as normal for the foreseeable future :cool:
Marco.
walpurgis
24-06-2016, 21:26
I agree with A A Gill that Peak Blighty never existed. But there was a time when we were at least looking for it. I'd like to at least get back to looking for it.
After WW2 and to the end of the fifties, there was a time of recovery, renewal and definitely optimism. The population was at a more or less self sustainable level, there was employment, the welfare state actually worked and the demands on services were generally met. Sure it wasn't perfect, but it was probably one of the best periods British people ever lived through.
Your cars are going to get more expensive, and I would not be surprised to see manufacturers pull out of the U.K. when the EU funding stops.
I am glad I am not relying on my UK pension for retirement!
It's a real sh*t storm over on the Wam re this; some real throwing of toys out of the pram over there and if you're with the vote-out side; you're utter scum, basically!
I've even witnessed pathetic/childish behaviour over on LinkedIn re this; I've had numerous 'connections' delete me and block me because I've voiced my opinion on the out-side and why I feel its happened and what it means etc
Very sad really!
That's pathetic. I have no time whatsoever for that insular-thinking nonsense, totally lacking in tolerance for others, who are perfectly entitled to disagree with any given side of the debate, or indeed think how they like about the matter in general.
That's why we've taken a hard line on this, in terms of allowing people to express their views on the subject, without fear of being personally attacked or ridiculed.
I simply won't stand for it. So for anyone wanting to discuss this highly emotive political topic, who possesses the ability to express or defend their views robustly, but politely, without making things personal, then this is the place to come! :cool:
Marco.
tis a 50 billion a year market. A lot for Euro manufacturers to lose. I dare say we can start buying from China and India.
Spectral Morn
24-06-2016, 22:12
Lol... Ever the drama queen, Neil! ;)
Chillax, bro...Somehow I think that I'll be able to sleep as soundly tonight as ever, and life for most of us will continue to go on as normal for the foreseeable future :cool:
Marco.
We will see Marco, we will see.
Lol... Ever the drama queen, Neil! ;)
Chillax, bro...Somehow I think that I'll be able to sleep as soundly tonight as ever, and life for most of us will continue to go on as normal for the foreseeable future :cool:
Marco.
I think it will affect most of us. Certainly the poor and especially the needy. Folk with money may see a downturn of their portfolio but folk like me will see disaster. I am not saying its a bad thing, as I dont know, long term, but short term, folk like me will just fall through the wide open cracks that will appear. Thats my take at least, but will be glad to be proved wrong
Lol - you know you worry too much, don't you? It's not good for your stress levels, darling! ;)
My view? CHILLAX, smile and just get on with your life, as best you can, and worry not about that which you cannot control......
Think about how much 'hoo-hah' was created by other major political occurrences in the past, here in the UK [you can cite your own examples], and ask yourself did your life *really* drastically alter, one way or the other, as a result, or pretty much just stay the same, certainly in the long term?
I can't think of anything that's happened in the UK, since I've been born, that has fundamentally or radically changed me as a person or how I've conducted my day-to-day life, in the areas where I've lived. I'll go and have a proper think about it though, and come back and let you know if I've forgotten something... :)
Marco.
I think it will affect most of us. Certainly the poor and especially the needy. Folk with money may see a downturn of their portfolio but folk like me will see disaster. I am not saying its a bad thing, as I dont know, long term, but short term, folk like me will just fall through the wide open cracks that will appear. Thats my take at least, but will be glad to be proved wrong
Sure, but worry about it when or IF it happens, not before, as you might end up having nothing to worry about at all! There's an old saying that neatly captures those sentiments, which I can't quite remember......
Marco [A positive thinking, naturally cheery big bastard, and not one of life's 'worriers'] ;)
It's a real sh*t storm over on the Wam re this; some real throwing of toys out of the pram over there and if you're with the vote-out side; you're utter scum, basically!
I've even witnessed pathetic/childish behaviour over on LinkedIn re this; I've had numerous 'connections' delete me and block me because I've voiced my opinion on the out-side and why I feel its happened and what it means etc
Very sad really!
It's now time for this Great country to stand on its own 2 feet once again and show them why we're Great Britain and why we can manage without them and don't need the EU nanny-state to hold our hands any more or give us permission every time we want to play out!!!
And ironically reflecting the remain campaign's tactics of labeling Brexit as project hate. They need to take a look at themselves...
Your cars are going to get more expensive, and I would not be surprised to see manufacturers pull out of the U.K. when the EU funding stops.
I am glad I am not relying on my UK pension for retirement!
JCB boss and Conservative peer Anthony Bamford urged his 6000 employees to vote leave and also took out full page newspaper adds to spread the message, so he (and other business men) obviously sees brexit benefiting manufacturing.
As we have a trade deficit with Germany I can't see them trying to scupper things, in spite of what the naysayers are banging on about.
http://newsthump.com/2016/06/24/good-goooood-murmurs-emperor-palpatine/
From an outsider: Congratulations! I really think only good things will ultimately come from all this.
I know you guys will have growing pains so I'm going to try hard to buy several UK manufactured goods this year (I'm thinking I'll start with a pair of Sowter step-up transformers).
Good look and stay positive!
Werner Berghofer
25-06-2016, 03:41
Geoff,
[…] Sure it wasn't perfect, but it was probably one of the best periods British people ever lived through.
very true, and these lucky times were not limited to the British people, but happened in most Western and Central European states as well.
Werner.
BTH K10A
25-06-2016, 05:15
tis a 50 billion a year market. A lot for Euro manufacturers to lose. I dare say we can start buying from China and India.
Over twice that figure was knocked off the value of British companies in 1 day yesterday and if we don't manage to enter into a good trading agreement with the EU the falls will likely be even bigger in 2 years time.
There's gratitude for you eh? Save Europe twice, and now we are worse than scum. So be it
We didn't do this alone, we had the empire countries, US, Russia, Free French, Partisans, etc no wonder we get things wrong re our self importance.
BTH K10A
25-06-2016, 06:14
The Washington post seems to have predicted events to date fairly accurately. If they are right on the rest the future for the younger generation is very bleak. :(
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/21/why-brexit-would-be-a-history-defining-and-irreversible-mistake/
The remain poster prediction also looks as if it may become reality
But if we all drink Red Bull and pray we may just be miraclulously transported back to the 1950's and all will be well again :roll eyes:
Oldpinkman
25-06-2016, 06:41
From an outsider: Congratulations! I really think only good things will ultimately come from all this.
I know you guys will have growing pains so I'm going to try hard to buy several UK manufactured goods this year (I'm thinking I'll start with a pair of Sowter step-up transformers).
Good look and stay positive!
Thanks. But whilst we're fond of them the goods we sell have relatively little importance to our financial survival. If you could commit to buying £200 million of financial services each year that would be a real help.
Oldpinkman
25-06-2016, 06:47
:champagne:
Correct decision made :D
I remain confused. What was the decision?
1 To negotiate a better deal and stay in (Boris)
2 to get out completely and lose vital passporting for financial services (nobody currently sponsoring)
3 to leave the EU but stay in the common market (eea) so instead of us paying to be a major influence in Brussels who then tell us what to do we now pay more to have no say in what Brussels tell us todo
It's early days, but most of the team actually likely to lead the negotiations appear to be saying 3
Was that what you voted for?
I don't understand some of these comments. There is no point scaremongering now. The deed is done. What happens, happens.
Also would like to point out that falls on the stock market do not mean anything in reality (unless you own stocks). The stock market also fell sharply several months ago. I don't recall anyone panicking then about the value of our companies.
As it is there are 3 possible outcomes
1) A rocky start but this shake up turns out to be a good thing
2) It could be a good thing but incompetent politicians screw it up
3) The politicians do a sterling job but it still proves to be a disaster.
Only in the event of 3) will I hold my hand up and say I was wrong to vote leave.
hifilover
25-06-2016, 07:10
I don't understand some of these comments. There is no point scaremongering now. The deed is done. What happens, happens.
Also would like to point out that falls on the stock market do not mean anything in reality (unless you own stocks). The stock market also fell sharply several months ago. I don't recall anyone panicking then about the value of our companies.
As it is there are 3 possible outcomes
1) A rocky start but this shake up turns out to be a good thing
2) It could be a good thing but incompetent politicians screw it up
3) The politicians do a sterling job but it still proves to be a disaster.
Only in the event of 3) will I hold my hand up and say I was wrong to vote leave.
Not scaremongering; but IIRC, didn't the stock markets drop even more than they did yesterday and a a few months back, very much earlier on this year and it wasn't even news worthy?!
A client I have is in the financial services and the hiring manager I deal with said they were having a few 'bad weeks' hence why they delayed some contractors from starting; but then it bounced back as they knew it would etc...!
And also re 3) - Don't you DARE! As a NATION we voted by our gut feelings/instinct and heart (as well as brains) to vote OUT; no-one and I mean NO ONE should have to say that they will reverse their decision if things go a bit sour... We know that there will be consequences and sacrifices will have to be made; but that's life! Sometimes things have to get a bit shitty before they get better...!!!
No one knows at all how this is going to turn out; but we have to strive to get this going and get it right ASAP.
Also hearing that the other EU leaders have asked us to sort this and get ourselves out ASAP made me laugh... Cheeky buggers! They clearly don't realise how much we've been holding them up
And for the French Mayor of Calais to say that the Camp should be OUR problem... Sorry, but up yer chuff Madam; until the gits are on our shores, they'll never be our problem!!!
Also hearing that the other EU leaders have asked us to sort this and get ourselves out ASAP made me laugh... Cheeky buggers! They clearly don't realise how much we've been holding them up
!!!
Indeed. Their attitude post vote leads me to believe we did the right thing cutting ourselves loose. Reminds me of one of those situations where you have to go on a business trip with a colleague you don't really like. You put up with it and get things done but you would really rather they were not there at all, but you need them there or it won't work.
Clearly the EU leaders do not like us but since we are bankrolling their whole sorry shebang they have held their noses until now. And now we have handed in our resignation and the tap is going to be turned off they tell us exactly what they have always thought of us. And people wanted us to commit to a Federal super-state with these people in unelected charge of us?
There was already little for the Y-Gens to look forward to. Priced out of housing, competing for minimum wage jobs, and stuck in rent servitude well into their 40's.
<remainder of comment removed/moderated>
We didn't do this alone, we had the empire countries, US, Russia, Free French, Partisans, etc no wonder we get things wrong re our self importance.
You have an urgent PM. Please respond to it at your earliest convenience.
Marco.
I don't understand some of these comments. There is no point scaremongering now. The deed is done. What happens, happens.
Exactly my view! :)
That said, best now to stop the wailing and the gnashing of teeth, as it will achieve nothing, and just get on with the rest of our lives.
Marco.
Indeed. Their attitude post vote leads me to believe we did the right thing cutting ourselves loose. Reminds me of one of those situations where you have to go on a business trip with a colleague you don't really like. You put up with it and get things done but you would really rather they were not there at all, but you need them there or it won't work.
Clearly the EU leaders do not like us but since we are bankrolling their whole sorry shebang they have held their noses until now. And now we have handed in our resignation and the tap is going to be turned off they tell us exactly what they have always thought of us. And people wanted us to commit to a Federal super-state with these people in unelected charge of us?
I like this viewpoint, and especially the bit in bold, which I feel contains much truth.
Marco.
BTH K10A
25-06-2016, 07:53
There was already little for the Y-Gens to look forward to. Priced out of housing, competing for minimum wage jobs, and stuck in rent servitude well into their 40's.
Ms. Merkel is probably on the phone to the French Mayor of Calais urging her to send us some more Rape-u-gees. I'm sure the people of Rotherham have had enough of that.
The price of housing has little to do with the EU and is as it seems minimum wage constraints will be removed they will be stuck in even lower paid jobs.
It has never been suggested that the minimum wage will be removed. And that is nothing to do with the EU in any case. It is UK legislation and the rate is set by the UK Government
The price of housing has little to do with the EU and is as it seems minimum wage constraints will be removed they will be stuck in even lower paid jobs.
And I’m not the least bit surprised you play that card, because every time someone speaks the truth on this issue someone pops up and labels them as racist as a tactic to silence the truth. Have you shed any tears for those children who were raped for years?
Of course it impacts on housing costs and rent, once you bring in millions there becomes a supply problem.
Yes it’s terrible what has been happening in those countries and Tony Blair and David Cameron are part responsible. Logically they would go to more appropriate countries but Saudi and Turkey etc don’t want to know. Destroying another country is the policy of imbeciles, unless of course your long-term strategy is to gerrymander the votes. They were originally, and quite sensibly, meant to go to the next safe country but that agreement is not being followed. Our aid would go a lot further to help people if they were moved temporarily to lower cost of living countries.
Rothchild
25-06-2016, 08:38
58% of leave voters profess to paying no, or little attention to politics - it shows.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/?utm_source=Lord+Ashcroft+Polls&utm_campaign=80ea4229e4-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b70c7aec0a-80ea4229e4-71651473
What's going to happen when Basildon man realises that Boris Trump and Pob will do nothing about immigration, have no more money for the NHS (Hunt has a hatchet job to finish after all) and that what they mean by 'stifling EU regulation' is the stuff that keeps our beaches clean and our workers from being exploited, not misrepresented cucumber laws.
BTH K10A
25-06-2016, 08:54
It has never been suggested that the minimum wage will be removed. And that is nothing to do with the EU in any case. It is UK legislation and the rate is set by the UK Government
unfortunately it appears that you moderate to support your own agenda. A sad day for this forum
No, I moderate because you have no right, moral or otherwise, to call other people racists.
I do wonder sometimes if some of you have ever met a real racist. The difference between a racist and someone who thinks that allowing all and sundry to come into this country unhindered is idiotic is a big one, let me assure you.
BTH K10A
25-06-2016, 09:02
And I’m not the least bit surprised you play that card, because every time someone speaks the truth on this issue someone pops up and labels them as racist as a tactic to silence the truth. Have you shed any tears for those children who were raped for years?
Of course it impacts on housing costs and rent, once you bring in millions there becomes a supply problem.
Yes it’s terrible what has been happening in those countries and Tony Blair and David Cameron are part responsible. Logically they would go to more appropriate countries but Saudi and Turkey etc don’t want to know. Destroying another country is the policy of imbeciles, unless of course your long-term strategy is to gerrymander the votes. They were originally, and quite sensibly, meant to go to the next safe country but that agreement is not being followed. Our aid would go a lot further to help people if they were moved temporarily to lower cost of living countries.
If you don't think the term Rape-u-gees is highly offensive and racist then this forum has sunk to levels I want no part in
I accept your point re that comment and will moderate that also.
BTH K10A
25-06-2016, 09:09
I do wonder sometimes if some of you have ever met a real racist. The difference between a racist and someone who thinks that allowing all and sundry to come into this country unhindered is a big one, let me assure you.
It was not a comment about people coming into this country unhindered it was a derogatory and racist term for refugees. I accept there may be some rotten apples in the barrell but most refugees are just that for a legitimate reason and have often suffered immensely. That you consider the term Rape-u-gees acceptable shows your true colours
Thanks. But whilst we're fond of them the goods we sell have relatively little importance to our financial survival. If you could commit to buying £200 million of financial services each year that would be a real help.
Richard,
your living in France...just sayin. ;).
Anyway,
I've stayed out of this thread mostly, except to say its significant that the Establishment were shitting themselves over Brexit.
Well, the people have now spoken and the result to me its an indicator of mistrust in the Political system and people feeling excluded from the process.
Ballsy move on the voters part, now in the post-Brexit scuffle we will see exactly how "Real" the Economic scaremongering actually was.
We've been held over the wringer and have been "played" by the system for too long, a hard transition possibly but good for us in the long term imo.
Interesting times.
Regarding trade...if Britain make something people want people will trade with them.
City of London isn't going from one of the Worlds largest financial institutions in the world to the "poor cousin" overnight.
Personally,
Brexit made my Day yesterday.
anubisgrau
25-06-2016, 09:15
Not at all. Why do you think that?
because i keep on hearing and reading about elderly voters who voted LEAVE for a benefit of their grandchildren who voted REMAIN.
strangely being familiar about the process....
Firebottle
25-06-2016, 09:16
Thinking about how a lot have voted without a seeming knowledge or understanding of politics gives me these thoughts:
The common man/woman is fed up with the status quo as relates to their lives. They see overcrowded surgeries and difficulty in finding school places as things that need to change, whatever reasons are to blame for them.
It was not a comment about people coming into this country unhindered it was a derogatory and racist term for refugees. I accept there may be some rotten apples in the barrell but most refugees are just that for a legitimate reason and have often suffered immensely. That you consider the term Rape-u-gees acceptable shows your true colours
See post 155
If you don't then the term Rape-u-gees is highly offensive and racist then this forum has sunk to levels I want no part in
It’s those that are turning a blind eye to the rape gangs, and shouting ‘racist’ to those speaking-up for those victims who are part of the problem. They are aiding the cover-up, and prolonging the rapes with a wall of silence, and I find that highly offensive. We are well into animal farm territory.
If you don't then the term Rape-u-gees is highly offensive and racist then this forum has sunk to levels I want no part in
Who used that term? I must've missed it, as I must admit to only skimming through the 'in depth' political side of the discussion, and the points made therein, as it doesn't interest me. Regardless, you're quite right, that term is completely unacceptable and will be moderated.
The message here on this thread is for everyone involved to stick strictly to debating the thread topic, without modifying words to suit your agenda, which others may find offensive.
Similarly, as Macca points out, the bandying about of the word 'racist', and applying it to the person behind a political view, as a definitive fact, is simply not on, as I don't believe (unless evidence otherwise proves differently) that anyone's political stance so far expressed here is genuinely that of a racist.
Therefore, let's leave that word out of the debate entirely, unless it is *actually* deserved, as a result of behaviour committed that irrefutably proves it [and I'll be the judge of that], in which case the person(s) responsible will be banned, as REAL racists are not welcome on this forum.
Marco.
Landloper
25-06-2016, 09:23
17313
De inferno ad meliora.
anthonyTD
25-06-2016, 09:23
What is the matter with you people :scratch: why cant you have a civilised debate without bringing the tone down with phrases,and slogans that you know will be offensive to one or the other, get a grip folks, or this thread will be locked again, permanently!:rolleyes:
A...
BTH K10A
25-06-2016, 09:23
because i keep on hearing and reading about elderly voters who voted LEAVE for a benefit of their grandchildren who voted REMAIN.
strangely being familiar about the process....
an oxymoron
Richard,
your living in France...just sayin.
Yes, and he's yet to 'refresh his mindset' accordingly ;)
I've stayed out of this thread mostly, except to say its significant that the Establishment were shitting themselves over Brexit.
Well, the people have now spoken and the result to me its an indicator of mistrust in the Political system and people feeling excluded from the process.
Ballsy move on the voters part, now in the post-Brexit scuffle we will see exactly how "Real" the Economic scaremongering actually was.
We've been held over the wringer and have been "played" by the system for too long, a hard transition possibly but good for us in the long term imo.
Interesting times.
Indeed, and I couldn't agree more, particularly with the bit in bold! :clap:
It's also human nature to fear change, which is largely what explains the behaviour of the depressing short-term thinking and eternally pessimistic, 'wow is me brigade', at the outcome of this referendum. However, as so often happens in life, enforced change, in time, results in a positive outcome, if albeit until then one has to suffer a little bit. No pain, no gain.
It applies now more than ever. As you say, "interesting times" are ahead; interesting no more so because of what you've outlined above, and what will become of the 'status quo' for once being challenged and defeated!
You've got more of that to look forward to, I feel, with the forthcoming 'Scottish referendum, take 2'....... And this time they won't get away with any vote rigging ;)
Marco.
I voted with my young nieces and nephews in mind. They are too young to vote. I consider I did what is best for them.
I recall being young and I'm reminded of Mark Twain's comment: 'When I was twenty I thought my father an idiot. When I was 30 I was surprised by how much he had learned in the previous ten years'
walpurgis
25-06-2016, 09:38
It's done now. We'd best be positive and get on with it. Blubbering about things or criticising people who had opposing opinions is pointless.
As I said yesterday.
Why do some keep raking over the coals? Instead of moaning or criticising, we should try and think optimistically and find something positive to say.
anubisgrau
25-06-2016, 09:40
Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses
Ms. Merkel is probably on the phone to the French Mayor of Calais urging her to send us some more Rape-u-gees. I'm sure the people of Rotherham have had enough of that.
and than LEAVErs complaint when you tell them this is a victory of racists and chauvinists.... OK.
BTH K10A
25-06-2016, 09:41
Who used that term? I must've missed it, as I must admit to only skimming through the 'in depth' political side of the discussion, and the points made therein. Regardless, you're quite right, that term is completely unacceptable and will be moderated.
The message here on this thread is for everyone involved to stick strictly to debating the thread topic, without modifying words to suit your agenda, which others may find offensive.
Similarly, as Macca points out, the bandying about of the word 'racist', and applying it to the person behind a political view, as a definitive fact, is simply not on, as I don't believe (unless evidence otherwise proves differently) that anyone's political stance so far expressed here is genuinely that of a racist.
Therefore, let's leave that word out of the debate entirely, unless it is *actually* deserved, as a result of behaviour committed that irrefutably proves it [and I'll be the judge of that], in which case the person(s) responsible will be banned, as REAL racists are not welcome on this forum.
Marco.
If you think Ulysses terminology was not racist then re-instate it
anubisgrau
25-06-2016, 09:42
If you don't then the term Rape-u-gees is highly offensive and racist then this forum has sunk to levels I want no part in
+ 1000000000000000
this aint my forum but this is discusting beyond belief, what's next here, polish plumbers?
As I said yesterday.
Why do some keep raking over the coals? Instead of moaning or criticising, we should try and think optimistically and find something positive to say.
because a lot of people are understandably gutted. What we have actually done is not voted to leave the EU but voted as to which mindset we all belong to. It has come as a big shock to them that so many people do not share their mindset, do not share their vision for the future. Added to that they consider themselevs to not only be intellectually right, but morally right. When you are that sure of yourself, to discover a majority disagree is more than unsettling. So expect more moaning and criticising.
If you think Ulysses terminology was not racist then re-instate it
Nope, no need to. It deserves to be removed, not because I think it was a comment from a genuine racist (which I don't), but rather an unnecessarily provocative one, which we don't consider as acceptable.
Like I've said, and I hope not to be repeating myself again: debate with others and present your point of view, using constructive language that is unlikely to be deemed by anyone else as offensive. Is that such a difficult thing to do? :doh:
Marco.
because a lot of people are understandably gutted. What we have actually done is not voted to leave the EU but voted as to which mindset we all belong to. It has come as a big shock to them that so many people do not share their mindset, do not share their vision for the future. Added to that they consider themselves to not only be intellectually right, but morally right. When you are that sure of yourself, to discover a majority disagree is more than unsettling. So expect more moaning and criticising.
Lol - how TRUE is that!! :D
Luckily, that's why we live in a free country.
Marco.
anubisgrau
25-06-2016, 09:52
what makes one a racist if using a blatant racist vocabulary in a public speech in front of hundreds is not?
what makes one a racist if using a blatant racist vocabulary in a public speech in front of hundreds is not?
Define 'blatant racist vocabulary'
before you do I'd point out that a refugee could be of any 'race'
anubisgrau
25-06-2016, 10:15
Define 'blatant racist vocabulary'
before you do I'd point out that a refugee could be of any 'race'
thanks for the answer.
sad to see a mod's support for a racist, hate speech, in my book of rules this is unacceptable even from of the fellow voter.
Rothchild
25-06-2016, 10:20
because a lot of people are understandably gutted. What we have actually done is not voted to leave the EU but voted as to which mindset we all belong to. It has come as a big shock to them that so many people do not share their mindset, do not share their vision for the future. Added to that they consider themselevs to not only be intellectually right, but morally right. When you are that sure of yourself, to discover a majority disagree is more than unsettling. So expect more moaning and criticising.
Wow, the last time I felt that patronised was when Michael Gove said that having voted to leave Europe we 'won't be any less European' - winning an election doesn't make one right, it means an election has been won. I have no choice but to respect the result but it doesn't oblige me to like it or to do anything to support it's outcome, that's for the unelected elite: Boris Trump and Pob (and the odds of them doing anything of use is minimal).
If the 'Basildon Boomer' felt disenfranchised up until yesterday he's going to be fuming in a couple of year's time (fortunately for the majority of leavers they won't be around to have clear up the mess they've created - story of their lives)
BTH K10A
25-06-2016, 10:22
Define 'blatant racist vocabulary'
before you do I'd point out that a refugee could be of any 'race'
You still seem to be trying to defend the indefensible with semantics. It was pretty obvious the term was being applied to the Syrian refugees in Germany
At least I now have a better understanding of the forums ethos
Ok, enough of that now. Martin's views are HIS, not the forum's.
The matter has been dealt with, so let's please move forward and continue with the main thrust of the debate. Any more prolonging of that side of the argument, by either of you, will be removed. That applies to you too, Gordan.
Marco.
Well, the people have now spoken and the result to me its an indicator of mistrust in the Political system and people feeling excluded from the process.
Ballsy move on the voters part, now in the post-Brexit scuffle we will see exactly how "Real" the Economic scaremongering actually was.
We've been held over the wringer and have been "played" by the system for too long, a hard transition possibly but good for us in the long term imo.
Interesting times.
Regarding trade...if Britain makes something people want people will trade with them.
City of London isn't going from one of the Worlds largest financial institutions in the world to the "poor cousin" overnight.
This ^
thanks for the answer.
sad to see a mod's support for a racist, hate speech, in my book of rules this is unacceptable even from of the fellow voter.
Hate speech translates to:
Because I can’t refute the facts stated, and I don’t believe in free speech (unless it favours my view) I will attempt to slur you and silence you by calling you racist. The hypocrisy of this behaviour is, of course, lost on such people.
Wow, the last time I felt that patronised was when Michael Gove said that having voted to leave Europe we 'won't be any less European' - winning an election doesn't make one right, it means an election has been won.
But he's only expressing an honest opinion about those he feels are behaving in that way, which he's entitled to. The fact that you see *yourself* in what he's described, and subsequently feel "patronised", is simply unfortunate, as the comment wasn't aimed personally at you.
Marco.
Hate speech translates to:
Because I can’t refute the facts stated, and I don’t believe in free speech (unless it favours my view) I will attempt to slur you and silence you by calling you racist. The hypocrisy of this behaviour is, of course, lost on such people.
Can we have less of the 'translating', as influenced by one's own biases (as that's what is liable to cause offence to others holding a different viewpoint), please, and more dealing with the actual facts? Ta! :)
Marco.
Can we have less of the 'translating', as influenced by one's own biases (as that's what is liable to cause offence to others holding a different viewpoint), please, and more dealing with the actual facts? Ta! :)
Marco.
Marco, since he was attempting to slur me with the racist tag it was necessary to defend myself and deconstruct his lame post. He couldn't even respond to Macca's simple question which is telling.
Well, I care not a jot who's 'fault' it is.
I want no part of that crap coming into the discussion from EITHER of you, so give it up and simply discuss the thread topic, in a polite and respectful manner, free from personal attacks, otherwise I'll invoke the rules, as I outlined earlier.
Is that what you want?
Here are the rules again, to refresh your memory, for participating here in political discussions: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?45477-Historic-day-for-Great-Britain!&p=768561#post768561
I'd advise EVERYONE here to READ, DIGEST, and most importantly, COMPLY with those rules, otherwise you can kiss goodbye to this thread. Simples!
Marco.
This excellent post from another forum is worth quoting here I think:
I voted remain. I admit I did toy with Brexit but my accountancy brain couldn't do it. I awoke with dread this morning.
People didn't vote for farage they voted for what he represents. Despite numerous warnings you left leaning folks have continually ignored the tsunami of social discontent building from all social strata. British people are proud. His home is his castle. The majority of people can see this country changing and whether people like to admit or not the majority are uncomfortable with the change. Many of the older generation grew up in or in the shadow of post war Europe and there is a mindset to "defend" our nation.
Those people are tired of being labeled bigot, racist little Englander etc. The left wing completely ignored them. Sneered at them even though the majority are their voters rather than listening to their concerns. That is where it went wrong.
I live in a bubble. I admit it. I am reasonably well paid in a great environment. I had a number of my well paid team make shitty comments this morning about "working class morons". Interestingly when I raised the question how they would feel if 100,000 foreign accountants swamped the Job market and were earning £20k a year their views changed.
I am not agreeing with their points of view but I do understand how we got here.
Despite all that I do think things will not be as bad as some are revelling in. The other 27 nations are at risk. Some are talking about exit. The EU cannot afford another recession. Recession breeds discontent. We were always a thorn in Europe's side anyway. I think the outcome will be a trading partnership with Europe because they will want stability and if we go down we will take others with us.
This excellent post from another forum is worth quoting here I think:
Source please... Which forum? :)
Marco.
anubisgrau
25-06-2016, 10:58
sorry, following marco's suggestion i'm stepping out of this discussion.
over and out.
Source please... Which forum? :)
Marco.
Ok, until you reveal your source, I'll choose some sentiments I agree with, from a forum 'somewhere', posted by someone who had become a little bit angry/passionate about the whole thing, but understandably so.. See if you can guess who and where:
In hindsight it may be a little too angry/over-emotional, and I regret losing my temper with what I do honestly view as idiocy and ignorance spurred on by gross lies and propaganda, but even so I would far prefer the ones that did this to the country pay the price rather than those of us who didn't!
I guess I'm really lucky in that I'm self employed, have zero debt, have some assets and receive just over a third of my income in US Dollars (i.e. a weak pound means I get some more pounds), but if I was employed in a 'real' job such as manufacturing, farming or anything remotely connected to the EU, multinationals or import/export I'd be crapping myself right now. I'd be way beyond livid, but as things are as long as the banks don't actually collapse and I'm not torched in any riots etc I'll survive.....
Anyway I can wait it out. The annoying thing is leaving the EU has effectively removed the exits, e.g. running away to somewhere cheap and sunny like Portugal, Greece or wherever is now off the table. I'm stuck in bloody Little England!
Amongst other things, I entirely share his sentiments about "little England", which is all certain folk, especially the Tories and their voters, seem to care about. I care not a jot about what best suits "little England", but rather what might best suit the rest of the UK, because as it currently stands, the UK isn't just England, 'little' or otherwise...
Marco.
Indeed it isn't and the fact that Scotland and NI voted to stay and England and Wales voted to leave indicates to me that what is required is more autonomy or even independence for regions not just in the UK but everywhere. Moving to a centrally controlled Federal state like the EU intends is really the opposite of what is required, and what is wanted. If the Scottish people complain that Westminster and London are too remote to govern them in their best interests then being governed from Brussels is even worse. It would seem that in general people want to reinforce their sense of local identity, not surrender it, and they want more local control over the way their locality is run.
because i keep on hearing and reading about elderly voters who voted LEAVE for a benefit of their grandchildren who voted REMAIN.
strangely being familiar about the process....
Well I voted REMAIN, not solely for myself (as an "elderly voter"), but for the generations to come.
If the Scottish people complain that Westminster and London are too remote to govern them in their best interests then being governed from Brussels is even worse. It would seem that in general people want to reinforce their sense of local identity, not surrender it, and they want more local control over the way their locality is run.
meF7NmfnXZ0
Marco.
anthonyTD
25-06-2016, 13:51
I don’t usually get involved in political debates, however; on this occasion I will make an exception.
For me, I think one of the main reasons a large potion of the countries votes went in favour of Brexit[ I hate that word by the way] was simple; Tell the British they cant do something, like was continually being drummed into us by the current powers that be, and the people of this country will wake up and prove you wrong, nothing brought this home more to me than watching a program on the prisoners that managed to escape the German prisoner of war camp "The Great Escape" The obstacles those men managed to overcome, to achieve what they did' in the face of what would be seen by many today as impossible’ was absolutely awe inspiring!
The British people now have what they voted for, now Britain needs to move forward, and start making plans for the future, instead of clawing, and scratching at each other, "The Majority Has Spoken"
WelL I voted REMAIN, not solely for myself (as an "elderly voter"), but for the generations to come.
Me too, but wondering if i chose correctly. The abuse handed out by some of the losers is certainly not a British attitude and disgusts me.
I lost but i,m not abusing anyone for it. Such is life in a democracy, and its way better than being in a totalitarian regime
The abuse handed out by some of the losers is certainly not a British attitude and disgusts me.
Me too. It's petty, defeatist bullshite. If you've 'lost' (simply because that's how you've interpreted the situation) then get over it and move on. We're all capable of doing plenty more damage yet before the grim reaper comes calling!
I lost but i,m not abusing anyone for it. Such is life in a democracy, and its way better than being in a totalitarian regime...
You get the feeling, from some of the responses, the latter is what some folk would prefer! :eek:
Marco.
Me too, but wondering if i chose correctly. The abuse handed out by some of the losers is certainly not a British attitude and disgusts me.
I lost but I'm not abusing anyone for it. Such is life in a democracy, and its way better than being in a totalitarian regime
Agreed!
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 14:39
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that a benevolent dictatorship would be better!
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that a benevolent dictatorship would be better!
Can you give an example of one?
King Jigme Singye Wangchuck of Bhutan Was only one that comes to mind, but he did it in reverse.
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 14:59
Can you give an example of one?
Not really no..... I guess Cuba comes closest.
The problem with democracy is people vote based on what they perceive as best for them... not the country as a whole and all its people. The "human condition" is to blame I guess. People would vote for mass murder and concentration camps if they thought it would make them personally better off... and as long as it would be "others" on the receiving end of it! Can't happen? Germany voted Hitler in.
Not really no..... I guess Cuba comes closest.
The problem with democracy is people vote based on what they perceive as best for them... not the country as a whole and all its people. The "human condition" is to blame I guess. People would vote for mass murder and concentration camps if they thought it would make them personally better off... and as long as it would be "others" on the receiving end of it! Can't happen? Germany voted Hitler in.
A bit like China - where the state is everything, the individual nothing. And who says the benevolent dictator will choose what's best for the country?
Sadly, it looks as though people will continue to be at each other's throats perhaps for many months or even years. It is to be entirely expected that a win by such a narrow margin would create such emotive divides in opinion. How we react and behave to one another is what matters now.
I sincerely hope, that those on both sides of the debate can now see what damage this bickering will have on the future of the UK unless we live with it and do everything within our power to work together and provide that future for our children that we're proclaiming we all want. What is done is done, and we really do need to move on. As for the PM, I am frankly disappointed that he didn't have the good sense to step down immediately so that we limit the impact of uncertainty on the markets, not just for our sakes, but for consideration of our European neighbours who are the very last people that we should be falling out with. This historic vote had nothing to do (imho anyway) with our relations with the real people of other EU nations, and was more a vote against the erosion of democracy in full knowledge of the economic short term impacts to come.
Infighting is the last thing we need folks. The spotlight of the world is now among us and our future depends largely on how we all conduct ourselves from this point onwards.
Mencken's definition of 'democracy': 'The belief that the common people know what they want, and that they deserve to get it, good and hard'.
walpurgis
25-06-2016, 15:13
I reserve my democratic right to vote for a UK equivalent to Pol Pot and have a British 'Year Zero'! :eek:
Surely if 'the establishment' controls everything, the logical conclusion must be that the Brexit result was their desired outcome and that the ballot was rigged to produce this result?
Not really no..... I guess Cuba comes closest.
The problem with democracy is people vote based on what they perceive as best for them... not the country as a whole and all its people. The "human condition" is to blame I guess. People would vote for mass murder and concentration camps if they thought it would make them personally better off... and as long as it would be "others" on the receiving end of it! Can't happen? Germany voted Hitler in.
Thats a rediculous post mate. You can shove it
The problem with democracy is people vote based on what they perceive as best for them... not the country as a whole and all its people.
Did you read post #83 (and onwards)? Barry and I have already discussed that very matter :)
See here, along with the following responses: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?45477-Historic-day-for-Great-Britain!&p=768606#post768606
Incidentally, our political views are mostly in alignment (I hate most of the same things you do), so that's not the problem, but that doesn't mean either of us are qualified to judge what's best for "the country as a whole and its people" - certainly without indirectly applying our own biases, which of course means that ultimately we've simply voted on what's perceived as 'best' for us.
Therefore, in the final analysis all we've really done is appeased our own sensibilities, and thus suffer from the very "human condition" you referred to earlier! ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
25-06-2016, 15:20
Surely if 'the establishment' controls everything, the logical conclusion must be that the Brexit result was their desired outcome and that the ballot was rigged to produce this result?
Perhaps.
Rothchild
25-06-2016, 15:21
But he's only expressing an honest opinion about those he feels are behaving in that way, which he's entitled to. The fact that you see *yourself* in what he's described, and subsequently feel "patronised", is simply unfortunate, as the comment wasn't aimed personally at you.
Marco.
Thanks Marco, id have missed that
Subtlety otherwise....
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 15:22
Sadly, it looks as though people will continue to be at each other's throats perhaps for many months or even years. It is to be entirely expected that a win by such a narrow margin would create such emotive divides in opinion. How we react and behave to one another is what matters now.
I sincerely hope, that those on both sides of the debate can now see what damage this bickering will have on the future of the UK unless we live with it and do everything within our power to work together and provide that future for our children that we're proclaiming we all want. What is done is done, and we really do need to move on. As for the PM, I am frankly disappointed that he didn't have the good sense to step down immediately so that we limit the impact of uncertainty on the markets, not just for our sakes, but for consideration of our European neighbours who are the very last people that we should be falling out with. This historic vote had nothing to do (imho anyway) with our relations with the real people of other EU nations, and was more a vote against the erosion of democracy in full knowledge of the economic short term impacts to come.
Infighting is the last thing we need folks. The spotlight of the world is now among us and our future depends largely on how we all conduct ourselves from this point onwards.
Well I've signed the petition for a new referendum and, personally, will never accept this result and never stop fighting for us to re-join the EU.
Apparently, according to BBC news site, on social media (something I never use) huge numbers are expressing "Bregret" at having voted out and saying "Eee I was only making a protest... I never thought brexit would actually win"
walpurgis
25-06-2016, 15:25
Apparently, according to BBC news site, on social media (something I never use) huge numbers are expressing "Bregret" at having voted out and saying "Eee I was only making a protest... I never thought brexit would actually win"
Well that's tough on them. It's done now and you can bet there won't be another referendum.
'Onwards and Upwards', as they say. Time to move forwards. It can't be all bad (I hope ;)) .
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 15:26
Thats a rediculous post mate. You can shove it
Do the new rules about attacking the ball and not the man not apply to moderators? Guess I'll have to report this post so you can moderate yourself...
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 15:27
Did you read post #83 (and onwards)? Barry and I have already discussed that very matter :)
See here, along with the following responses: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?45477-Historic-day-for-Great-Britain!&p=768606#post768606
Incidentally, our political views are mostly in alignment (I hate most of the same things you do), so that's not the problem, but that doesn't mean either of us are qualified to judge what's best for "the country as a whole and its people" - certainly without indirectly applying our own biases, which of course means that ultimately we've simply voted on what's perceived as best by US, and so we too suffer from the very "human condition" you refer to ;)
Marco.
Yes I saw it and was following on from it....
Surely if 'the establishment' controls everything, the logical conclusion must be that the Brexit result was their desired outcome and that the ballot was rigged to produce this result?
Yeah, that one puzzles me, so will need to try and see the angle... But then, Murdoch, a key member of the establishment, had has 'propaganda machine' in full flow, prior to the vote, encouraging people to vote 'leave', so perhaps some more lateral thinking on that one is needed? ;)
Marco.
Well I've signed the petition for a new referendum and, personally, will never accept this result and never stop fighting for us to re-join the EU.
Apparently, according to BBC news site, on social media (something I never use) huge numbers are expressing "Bregret" at having voted out and saying "Eee I was only making a protest... I never thought brexit would actually win"
We all had the choice given to us and we voted and the majority won. That's democracy. There wont be any change, we're out and what's done is done. My personal hope is for the undemocratic EC to come tumbling down now by other nations doing the same thing so that European nations can get back to the EFTA, a common market, and when that happens, I'm confident that we will be welcomed back to the new improved club and would be nuts not to. The British vote is just the tip of a very deep and very troubled iceberg waiting to hit the good ship EU.
walpurgis
25-06-2016, 15:31
I have a sneaking suspicion, despite all the hoo-ha and pompous talk, That the French and Germans are rather pleased Britain has opted out of Europe, as they can now choose to do the same without being the first to do so and possibly argue that it's necessary, as without Britain's inclusion and support the EU is damaged and will start to fail.
Do the new rules about attacking the ball and not the man not apply to moderators? Guess I'll have to report this post so you can moderate yourself...
Well, the comment of yours of "people would vote for mass murder and concentration camps if they thought it would make them personally better off... and as long as it would be "others" on the receiving end of it!", is a pretty extreme one to make, and unlikely to go down well with many. Therefore, if making remarks like that, you should be prepared for some backlash.
That said, Grant shouldn't have told you to shove it.
Marco.
walpurgis
25-06-2016, 15:34
I see Paul just said something quite similar to my last post (but not the same :)).
Except Merkel has just stated that the EU is strong enough to survive without us.
Although some posturing prior to the serious negotiations beginning is to be expected.
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 15:34
Yeah, that one puzzles me, so will need to try and see the angle... But then, Murdoch, a key member of the establishment, had has 'propaganda machine' in full flow, prior to the vote, encouraging people to vote 'leave', so perhaps some more lateral thinking on that one is needed? ;)
Marco.
This is something I have a huge problem with! Democracy is supposed to be one man one vote and every bodies vote counts the same etc.... So how can it be right for one man with billions, who virtually controls the media, to be able to sway the opinions of millions, and hence how they vote, for his own purposes and that of his fellow "elite"?
Yeah, that one puzzles me, so will need to try and see the angle... But then, Murdoch, a key member of the establishment, had has 'propaganda machine' in full flow, prior to the vote, encouraging people to vote 'leave', so perhaps some more lateral thinking on that one is needed? ;)
Marco.
Murdoch basically backed both sides; the Sun urging Brexit, the Times recommending Remain.
No, my logic is impeccable; the establishment control everything; if they'd wanted Britain to remain in the EU they'd have rigged the ballot accordingly. As they didn't, they must have wanted Brexit all along. Macca et al thus turn out to be unwitting tools of the NWO.
Yes I saw it and was following on from it....
So you agree then that we all suffer from "the human condition" you refer to, and that you're not magically exempt from it?
Marco.
This is something I have a huge problem with! Democracy is supposed to be one man one vote and every bodies vote counts the same etc.... So how can it be right for one man with billions, who virtually controls the media, to be able to sway the opinions of millions, and hence how they vote, for his own purposes and that of his fellow "elite"?
I think you overestimate the power of the press. My mother has bought the Daily Mail every day of her adult life and she voted remain.
Murdoch basically backed both sides; the Sun urging Brexit, the Times recommending Remain.
No, my logic is impeccable; the establishment control everything; if they'd wanted Britain to remain in the EU they'd have rigged the ballot accordingly. As they didn't, they must have wanted Brexit all along. Macca et al thus turn out to be unwitting tools of the NWO.
If they ain't got you one way, they've got you another.
King Jigme Singye Wangchuck of Bhutan Was only one that comes to mind, but he did it in reverse.
He sent me an email last week, asking me to claim the 3 million Rand he had sitting in a Bank account for me....
Apparently, according to BBC news site, on social media (something I never use) huge numbers are expressing "Bregret" at having voted out and saying "Eee I was only making a protest... I never thought brexit would actually win"
Some people are so dumb they shouldn't be allowed out unaccompanied, let alone be allowed to vote on important issues.
No, my logic is impeccable; the establishment control everything; if they'd wanted Britain to remain in the EU they'd have rigged the ballot accordingly. As they didn't, they must have wanted Brexit all along.
Well, let's see how things pan out in the medium to long term, as to whether Britain leaving the EU ultimately benefits the establishment more than the opposite! ;)
It's early days yet....
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 15:46
Well, the comment of yours of "people would vote for mass murder and concentration camps if they thought it would make them personally better off... and as long as it would be "others" on the receiving end of it!", is a pretty extreme comment to make, and unlikely to go down well with many, so if making remarks like that, then you should be prepared for the backlash.
That said, Grant shouldn't have told you to shove it.
Marco.
It was extreme in order to illustrate the "evil which lurks in the hearts of men" (now where did that come from? some film I think?) and with an example of how it can actually happen ie Hitler's Germany. He was democratically voted in by the German people. It happened.
It is also a good example of how hatred for "others" can be the strongest emotion in many people and how Hitler and his propaganda machine understood this and so scapegoated the Jews, Gypsies, gays etc as being to blame for the after effects of the wall st crash that were still, in conjunction with fallout from ww1, causing financial hardship in Germany at that time.
Although on a different scale of evil, Farage also understands this hence all the scapegoating of immigrants and scare stories about Muslim rapists etc (who incidentally come from countries outside the EU!)
He sent me an email last week, asking me to claim the 3 million Rand he had sitting in a Bank account for me....
:lol: Sadly the currency of Bhutan is the ngultrum. I have visited Bhutan, and have to say it's probably the only other country I would be happy to live in.
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 15:51
So you agree then that we all suffer from "the human condition" you refer to, and that you're not magically exempt from it?
Marco.
Of course! However..... I believe that people are motivated by greed, jealousy, hate, love etc to varying degrees... although no one is exempt.
:lol: Sadly the currency of Bhutan is the ngultrum. I have visited Bhutan, and have to say it's probably the only other country I would be happy to live in.
:lol:
Thanks Marco, id have missed that
Subtlety otherwise....
Always happy to help ;)
Marco.
It was extreme in order to illustrate the "evil which lurks in the hearts of men" (now where did that come from? some film I think?) and with an example of how it can actually happen ie Hitler's Germany. He was democratically voted in by the German people. It happened.
It is also a good example of how hatred for "others" can be the strongest emotion in many people and how Hitler and his propaganda machine understood this and so scapegoated the Jews, Gypsies, gays etc as being to blame for the after effects of the wall st crash that were still, in conjunction with fallout from ww1, causing financial hardship in Germany at that time.
!)
Except the Nazis didn't put people in extermination camps to make anyone wealthier, although that was a side effect. They did it because they were crazy - but they were able to do it by convincing those who did the deeds that they were doing the right thing from a moral perspective. Evil people rarely see themselves as evil. On the contrary they see themselves as holding the moral high ground. if a man's conscience is satisfied only then can he commit the most atrocious deeds. And his hate, his moral outrage, can be harnessed and used.
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 15:53
I think you overestimate the power of the press. My mother has bought the Daily Mail every day of her adult life and she voted remain.
That explains a lot :D
Arkless Electronics
25-06-2016, 15:56
Some people are so dumb they shouldn't be allowed out unaccompanied, let alone be allowed to vote on important issues.
Indeed. I have often thought people should have to pass a quick test before being allowed to vote... ie If they can't name the incumbent PM, don't have a clue what's in the manifesto's of the parties etc then they're out of the door..
That explains a lot :D
:) Have you ever read it? I do when I visit. It's like a woman's magazine crossed with The Daily Mash.
I always preferred the Independent, because it was, until it went all lefty.
:) Have you ever read it? I do when I visit. It's like a woman's magazine crossed with The Daily Mash.
Are there any tits in it, aside from the columnists?
Marco.
walpurgis
25-06-2016, 16:02
Some people are so dumb they shouldn't be allowed out unaccompanied, let alone be allowed to vote on important issues.
There is truth there.
I don't think any paper has tits anymore. Maybe that will return now we are turning the clock back to 1973. ;)
Indeed. I have often thought people should have to pass a quick test before being allowed to vote... ie If they can't name the incumbent PM, don't have a clue what's in the manifesto's of the parties etc then they're out of the door..
In that case, I'd fail miserably, as for me the latter is nothing but a 'yawn fest', and I suspect also for the majority of others. Unless you're seriously into politics, or simply a 'details nerd', I think you'll find that the majority of the electorate vote for precisely the reasons you outlined earlier! ;)
Marco.
I don't think any paper has tits anymore. Maybe that will return now we are turning the clock back to 1973. ;)
Ha - if only that were so... Oh, and beer cans with 'dolly birds' on them - yum yum! :eyebrows:
Marco.
SteveTheShadow
25-06-2016, 16:08
Well I for one can't wait to see ther return of "On The Buses" "The Comedians" with Shep's Banjo Boys, Benny Hill and "Doctor in Charge"
walpurgis
25-06-2016, 16:09
I don't think any paper has tits anymore. Maybe that will return now we are turning the clock back to 1973. ;)
There's a couple of tits on the front page of today's Daily Express! :D
http://i65.tinypic.com/2mopgk8.jpg
walpurgis
25-06-2016, 16:10
Well I for one can't wait to see ther return of "On The Buses" "The Comedians" with Shep's Banjo Boys, Benny Hill and "Doctor in Charge"
Pound notes anybody?
Hey, good call there, Steve! And comedies, such as 'Love thy Neighbour' and 'Mind Your Language', before political correctness spiralled to idiotic levels! ;)
Marco.
Ha - if only that were so... Oh, and beer cans with 'dolly birds' on them - yum yum! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Actually we might be onto something here. We just need to reinstitute all the best things about the 1970's and we would have pretty much cracked it.
If I was Boris I would have a top team of scientists working on a clone of Sid James. When he's ready we make him Foreign Secretary and get him out there. The world will beat a path to our door.
I don't think any paper has tits anymore. Maybe that will return now we are turning the clock back to 1973. ;)
Sure the Sunday Spurt can help,you out there Martin? :)
There's a couple of tits on the front page of today's Daily Express! :D
http://i65.tinypic.com/2mopgk8.jpg
:lol: :lol:
Too right! Two 'blue tits'...
Marco.
hard1175
25-06-2016, 16:15
As Mickey Flanigan would say we're not out we're out out.
Sure the Sunday Spurt can help,you out there Martin? :)
Is that still going? I'm amazed.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.