View Full Version : Happy Anniversary - taking a Pink Triangle for a spin
RobbieGong
04-12-2015, 15:09
Cool.
Could I also please have an apology for your accusation that I was acting in a dishonest manner? Because I promise I've told you the truth about what happened. That way, darling, we can properly kiss and make up [just no tongues]! :kiss:
Marco.
Such a tart Marco :lol:
Yesh, I know, I know..... :o
Marco.
Oldpinkman
04-12-2015, 15:49
Cool.
Could I also please have an apology for your accusation that I was acting in a dishonest manner? Because I promise I've told you the truth about what happened. That way, darling, we can properly kiss and make up [just no tongues]! :kiss:
Marco.
Sure. I accept what you have posted, and accept I drew the wrong conclusion, and apologise for it. :o I am also keen not to start a bun-fight with Mike New, or worse, a bunfight between him and an absent Arthur.
Briefly, I would note I was not alone in my erroneous interpretation of events, and I think my error will have helped to clear a fairly bad odour from the forum. I am still not clear really why the OP felt a need to have the complete thread erased, nor that it was wise or appropriate to agree to do so. Neil noted that this is supposed to be a forum and thus open and "censorship", even well-meaning , loving caring, censorship with no commercial motive, does not foster that forum spirit. Goodness only knows, I and more than a few others have made complete tits of ourselves from time to time, but we don't ask to have the threads removed ;)
With reference to the bun fight, and Neils comments that Pink Triangle is not Funk - sadly that is true but not true. It is probably Arthurs most frequent moan. Funk was created because he was emotionally drained by Pink Triangle and wanted to leave it behind. That wasn't due to gluey lids, crinkly sub-chassis or reliability issues in PT1's but a bunch of other personal stuff - mostly in the final years after I left. However, that association sticks. :(
I find it absurd that I get accused of "shilling" a Pink Triangle Pip - an unobtainable amplifier out of production for more than 20 years, made by a company that ceased to exist around 10 years ago. So I would agree with Neil, but the rest of the world doesnt see it that way :mental:
Look at Mikes comment I objected to. As I recall, a comment was made that the Funk 1 and ETP sounded similar, and I noted they were both made from a rigid plastic "close" to vinyl, and that apart from a need to "rest" plastic when machining it there was nothing very complicated or mythical about it or the platters. Mikes somewhat prickly response, apart from being prickly, made precisely that confusion Neil seeks to deny. I had spoken of machining Pink Triangle platters. Mike referred to "Mr Funk" and implied all Funk platters used cheap plastic. He has on a few occasions demonstrated his lack of familiarity with PT and Funk, and my association with both (mainly friend of Arthur). It is clear that whilst Arthur may be a legendary figure in the UK audiophile industry , or whatever the exact words the Sunday Times used, his fame hasn't spread as far as his vanity might like, and certainly not as far as Australia.
And Neil - don't stay off my threads - I'll man up and deal with it. Perhaps consider when to let go, and try to see the humour intended in the post. I think the humour was there, as Marco spotted, without the emoticon, and it was more intended as a shield against accusations of shilling, when all I want to do is chat about the day out, than it was a reference to your early PT bashing. It was posted using my Android on a web browser, and the keyboard pop-up gets in the way of the emoticons. Its not that its impossible to use one, but I lose the will to live very often.
TTFN :cool:
Sure. I accept what you have posted, and accept I drew the wrong conclusion, and apologise for it.
Thanks, and apology accepted :)
Briefly, I would note I was not alone in my erroneous interpretation of events, and I think my error will have helped to clear a fairly bad odour from the forum. I am still not clear really why the OP felt a need to have the complete thread erased, nor that it was wise or appropriate to agree to do so. Neil noted that this is supposed to be a forum and thus open and "censorship", even well-meaning , loving caring, censorship with no commercial motive, does not foster that forum spirit. Goodness only knows, I and more than a few others have made complete tits of ourselves from time to time, but we don't ask to have the threads removed...
Oh, you'd be surprised how often I'm asked that by members, and also how often the request is politely refused.
Look, Richard, I totally *get* where you're coming from (and agree that it's good all this has come out), but when a member comes to you who is quite clearly rather upset over something they've written, anything (for justifiable reasons to THEM), asking for you to delete it, then only a selfish and heartless person could refuse them their wish.
If I regretted so strongly something I'd posted here, but was powerless to do anything about it, I'd be approaching me, too!
Therefore, my FIRST priority was to help Andrew, and I'm afraid that only he, if he so wishes, can explain why he felt that way, and acted the way he did. I will certainly not be disclosing the contents of his PM here, simply to pacify the curious. And if some idiots elsewhere want to read into that in a way that furthers their agenda, then good luck to them!
At the end of the day, *I*, and I alone, make the final judgement calls here - no one else. Therefore, no-one here controls me in any way, I can assure you. There are also two further things I can assure you of, which are as follows:
1) The day that I need (or value) the tiny amount of revenue that's generated here from trade accounts (most of which goes to pay the on-going bills, and the remainder reinvested for the future development of the forum), MORE than keeping my honesty and integrity intact, is the day I will give it all up and shut this place down. I trust you appreciate where I'm coming from there!
2) There is ZERO favouritism, cliques or deliberate censorship here. Everyone is treated exactly the same way, and with the same respect, whether or not they pay £50 per year for the privilege of being a trade member, by earning income from advertising on the site.
If censorship is wrongly perceived, then that's simply because whoever is guilty of that error of judgement isn't in full possession of the facts, or because their ridiculous and pathetic age-old grudges, and HUGE (largely undeserved) chips on their shoulder, succeed in clouding them from the reality.
Yes, believe it or not, there exists a tiny band of sad and envious underachieving malcontents, who would no sooner wish AoS or me any goodwill, than poison their mother. But they deserve pity more than my ire, as I can take comfort from knowing that my life is a damn sight happier and more fulfilled than theirs! And besides, it was always considered rather rude to mock the afflicted ;)
<Kirk out>
We'll discuss the Kinetic and Boing (love that description later) :cool:
Marco.
Oldpinkman
04-12-2015, 16:54
Ah
Much is revealed glasshopper. I detect in your denials the all-knowing HFS have been commenting. I'd forgotten about them. No I'm afraid this was purely personal paranoia, and a few private emails, and nothing to do with those gallant champions of the truth. I am well aware of their sincere but misplaced faith in their infallibility
I recall one of my own rare moments of fame - when I was a headline in the papers. I have lost the clipping now, but it read something like "Local Farmer, Richard Sutton, was disappointed at the refusal of his application for development" or some such. Never been a farmer - hadn't submitted an application to develop anything - just lift a restrictive planning clause, and it wasn't refused, and I wasn't disappointed. But they knew!! ;)
Nonetheless, if I don't use the word "censorship", I feel the decision to remove whole posts was one that may have been excessively compassionate. I'd never want to knock a generosity of spirit, nor wish to cause any distress to Andrew, and I have no wish to pry, so I am happy for it to be left as it is (like its any of my business anyway), BUT - if I were daft enough to run a forum, and I wanted to follow the principles Neil outlined earlier in this thread, I would have held out for the most exceptional of circumstances before cutting a complete thread. Especially without any explanation, as though nobody was going to notice!
Lets move on :cool:
Spectral Morn
04-12-2015, 17:14
Oh boy, there's a lot here, that I'm not sure I have time for at the moment , but I will return to.
From a quick scan, I think thanks to Neil and Marco are appropriate for recognising some of my points, and quite clearly apologies are due to Neil for rudeness.
A bit like my earlier note, that almost anything will sound defensive - other than a straight apology - I'll just try to have a quick go and leave it at that
I try to be flippant rather than "BBC announcer". By contrast, from what I have seen, Neil is much more "straight" and deadpan and factual. The comment "autistic and humourless" was intended as a shorthand jibe at the posting style, (and as a contrast to mine) and not a comment about the individual. However, rereading it - its a monster, and I apologise unreservedly for it
Richard
Apology accepted Richard.
As you say lets move on.
Nonetheless, if I don't use the word "censorship", I feel the decision to remove whole posts was one that may have been excessively compassionate. I'd never want to knock a generosity of spirit, nor wish to cause any distress to Andrew, and I have no wish to pry, so I am happy for it to be left as it is (like its any of my business anyway), BUT - if I were daft enough to run a forum, and I wanted to follow the principles Neil outlined earlier in this thread, I would have held out for the most exceptional of circumstances before cutting a complete thread. Especially without any explanation, as though nobody was going to notice!
It was simply a matter of expediency. As I keep saying, these days with the forum the size that it is, I simply don't have time to prune threads as diligently as you've (legitimately) outlined, so if I receive a request, such as Andrew's, and consider it justified, then the whole lot goes, as one click is quickest!!
It's honestly *that* simple. I'm sure that any other owner of a large and busy Internet forum would appreciate exactly where I'm coming from, and tell you the same thing :)
As for the other bit, I was fully aware that people would notice and make some kind of comment, and that happened and was allowed to continue up until the point *I* decided that the discussion was becoming circular, and most importantly, regurgitating the very things Andrew had earlier asked to be removed...
Therefore, that was why the subsequent threads 'raking over old coals', as it were, were closed - not as a result of any desire for censorship.
I'm afraid that some folk will have to realise that when a decision is made to close a thread (and such decisions here are always very carefully considered before being actioned), it is FINAL, and no amount of moaning by the pig-headed, who simply enjoy arguing for eternity, will reverse that decision.
In those circumstances, the only acceptable course of action is to respect and gracefully accept the decision - and then move on!
So yes, since you mention moving on, let's do just that.
:exactly:
Marco.
Nope, it's simply that an admin decision (which is always very carefully considered) is final. Get used to it, shweety! :eyebrows: If you want to enjoy any special privileges, then start (and pay for) your own forum ;)
Marco.
Ali Tait
04-12-2015, 18:54
It ain't a democracy..
Precisely... Anyway, let's get back on topic! :)
Marco.
Oh poo, Marco
You do like to spoil a surprise. As you know, Arthur is inclined to change his mind more often than you change your ladies underwear. Last I heard, before the last visit, was that kinetic was now to be only for Vector / Sapphire. "Boing" (one of the new ideas) was for Techies and the rest of the great unwashed.
Arthur is in the process of finishing the patents for Boing, (which relate to the way it is sprung) - but its a replacement turntable foot with spring suspension built into it. I saw a prototype the last time I was down, and set an SL1210 up on it to show it worked.
In spite of that, he phoned me to tell me all about Boing last week, and that he might have one for a Technics, and I could see what I think of it, before I reminded him of our extensive messing with his first prototype (He's like a big kid). The latest version of the official truth, as I understand it, is that Boing will be available in 3 standard "ratings" (spring rating based on turntable mass) I believe ranging from around £100 to £200 a set.
For those who don't want the fiddle and faff of changing feet, there will then be (at greater cost) KINETIC. Now, I was too busy at the time to challenge him about "but you said to me, Kinetic was only for Vector/Saphire". Anyway, the weather had changed several times since that conversation...).
Leaving aside the hilarity over Arthur's ever-changing mind, that's all good to know. I would be extremely interested in trying either a Kinetic or a set of Boing, as I've long considered that the Isonoe feet for the Techy, whilst great, aren't the 'last word', as it were (in terms of effective isolation) - and I'm sure that Arthur can come up with something much better!
So when either of the above are available for ordering, let me know :)
Marco.
Oldpinkman
04-12-2015, 21:05
Legend has it there will be a techie, a rega , and I forget what the 3rd deck was, mounted on Boing for me to admire and fawn over on Thursday. (it's a particularly good fish restaurant, and his shout, so I told him I didn't want to spend too much time fannying about with hifi - and my pt needs a hoover). Given that he believes he will have a set ready for Kevin, I would say "launch" is imminent. I'll keep you posted. I'm sure you appreciated this but the clever bit is not just springs, but a range of compliance which can match the turntable mass to tune the system frequency. I'll keep you posted ;)
Awesome - please do, and enjoy the fish restaurant... You're right, that sounds way too good to be fannying around with hi-fi for any longer than is necessary!! :eyebrows:
Marco.
P.S Save me some lobster ;)
Oldpinkman
05-12-2015, 11:39
Awesome - please do, and enjoy the fish restaurant... You're right, that sounds way too good to be fannying around with hi-fi for any longer than is necessary!! :eyebrows:
Marco.
P.S Save me some lobster ;)
There's probably a food thread somewhere this belongs on, but its my thread, so I'll drift as much as I like. Have you tried Waitrose Orkney crab and scrambled eggs for about £4 a pop? We had it last night again, and it is really naughty. We serve it as a starter at dinner parties now, just very carefully getting it out of the plastic pot into china dishes and pretending we made it (s'ok - we fess up).
We first had something similar in France. In Esperaza, the nearest small town to our new house, there is a little restaurant called the "Cathar Gourmand". Only open lunch times, it has 6 2 seater tables inside, and 6 on the road outside. I mean on the road - they have just nailed some rattan screens to the road to make a "terrace". Run by a couple from Paris (I think he is originally from Brittany) they do a simple working mans lunch. 3 courses for 12 euros (£8.50) - bottle of local wine for 5 euros. It will be a choice of creme caramel or one other dessert , one of 6 casserole style main courses (seafood lasagne, duck confit in cream and potatoes, cassoulet etc) and "the starter". Which is a cheese thingy in choux pastry, a king prawn thingy, and this crab and scrambled egg. Sublime!
Given its a bit far to pop down to the Cathar Gourmand, try the next best thing - in Waitrose! ;)
RobbieGong
05-12-2015, 11:43
There's probably a food thread somewhere this belongs on, but its my thread, so I'll drift as much as I like. Have you tried Waitrose Orkney crab and scrambled eggs for about £4 a pop? We had it last night again, and it is really naughty. We serve it as a starter at dinner parties now, just very carefully getting it out of the plastic pot into china dishes and pretending we made it (s'ok - we fess up).
We first had something similar in France. In Esperaza, the nearest small town to our new house, there is a little restaurant called the "Cathar Gourmand". Only open lunch times, it has 6 2 seater tables inside, and 6 on the road outside. I mean on the road - they have just nailed some rattan screens to the road to make a "terrace". Run by a couple from Paris (I think he is originally from Brittany) they do a simple working mans lunch. 3 courses for 12 euros (£8.50) - bottle of local wine for 5 euros. It will be a choice of creme caramel or one other dessert , one of 6 casserole style main courses (seafood lasagne, duck confit in cream and potatoes, cassoulet etc) and "the starter". Which is a cheese thingy in choux pastry, a king prawn thingy, and this crab and scrambled egg. Sublime!
Given its a bit far to pop down to the Cathar Gourmand, try the next best thing - in Waitrose! ;)
This scrambled egg and crab thingy sounds very nice Richard and your making me hungry :)
Hi Richard,
Have you tried Waitrose Orkney crab and scrambled eggs for about £4 a pop?
Nope, but I will do now, sounds lovely... Apart from a starter at a dinner party, it would make a nice 'posh breakfast' (perhaps for a special occasion, served with some smoked salmon blinis on the side), and Champagne!
We had it last night again, and it is really naughty. We serve it as a starter at dinner parties now, just very carefully getting it out of the plastic pot into china dishes and pretending we made it (s'ok - we fess up).
Lol... Sounds like you should be on 'Come Dine with Me'... ;)
We first had something similar in France. In Esperaza, the nearest small town to our new house, there is a little restaurant called the "Cathar Gourmand". Only open lunch times, it has 6 2 seater tables inside, and 6 on the road outside. I mean on the road - they have just nailed some rattan screens to the road to make a "terrace". Run by a couple from Paris (I think he is originally from Brittany) they do a simple working mans lunch. 3 courses for 12 euros (£8.50) - bottle of local wine for 5 euros. It will be a choice of creme caramel or one other dessert , one of 6 casserole style main courses (seafood lasagne, duck confit in cream and potatoes, cassoulet etc) and "the starter". Which is a cheese thingy in choux pastry, a king prawn thingy, and this crab and scrambled egg. Sublime!
Oh, now that sounds *exactly* like our kind of place! Love it. Where in France is that - what's the nearest big town? If it's anywhere near our 'usual zone', I'd make a point of going there.
Given its a bit far to pop down to the Cathar Gourmand, try the next best thing - in Waitrose!
Defo noted. Since Waitrose recently opened up in Chester we've been going there quite often. It's not cheap, but majority of the stuff is worth it, simply because it's more unusual and of higher quality than that found in pretty much any other supermarket, so we shop exclusively there now (and at Lidl), where some of the products in there can also be fantastic, particularly their 'Deluxe' range, and when they do their special 'themed' weeks.
What I like about Waitrose, however, is the deli bit at the back, where you can enjoy a light meal (with various deli meats and cheeses, pickles, etc), all superb stuff, and a glass of wine, for £5.95. It makes the whole shopping experience rather more civilised! And you also get a free cup of coffee with every shop (if you sign up for a Waitrose card). Their wine and spirits section is also to die for.
No, for me their stuff is worth every penny, unlike in M&S, where much of it is overpriced guff!
Marco.
Oldpinkman
05-12-2015, 15:07
Where in France is that - what's the nearest big town? If it's anywhere near our 'usual zone', I'd make a point of going there..
It's the arse-end of nowhere. Not easy for a casual lunch from Wrexham. If you are travelling all the way to the Cathar Gourmand, you might as well pop 7km up the hill and listen to a proper HiFi ;)
Type Esperaza into google maps and it comes up. It's near Quillan (our slightly larger close town). About 40 minutes south of Carcassonne. You have to pass through Limoux, which at 20 minutes away is our nearest big town. You won't have any trouble with the wine list - just drink Blanquette de Limoux - about E2.5 for a large glass in a bar (You would drink from the Salazar cave in Campagne sur Aude in the local bars)
http://www.midi-france.info/04140301_blanquette.htm
http://www.salasar.fr/
Putting a Boing on a solid deck? Interesting :) I rather like the Something Solid way of balsa shelves (very light and stiff enough - look good too) but sitting on a pre-tensioned nylon rope. Wonderful isolation but with no 'springiness' to affect stability (I was alarmed at my first experience of the Isonoes, as there's beggar-all vertical movement but a lot of lateral shimmy before they settle).
Final comment from me on platter materials. The stuff Funk and Pink used at the time was one of the most expensive acrylics I believe, and this was discussed some years ago (you may recall it Pinky). Leaving it to 'rest' between turning processes is quite an excellent thing to do and in the case of the LP12's Mazak castings, months were involved from beginning to end I remember.
Oldpinkman
05-12-2015, 17:41
Putting a Boing on a solid deck? Interesting :) I rather like the Something Solid way of balsa shelves (very light and stiff enough - look good too) but sitting on a pre-tensioned nylon rope. Wonderful isolation but with no 'springiness' to affect stability (I was alarmed at my first experience of the Isonoes, as there's beggar-all vertical movement but a lot of lateral shimmy before they settle).
Final comment from me on platter materials. The stuff Funk and Pink used at the time was one of the most expensive acrylics I believe, and this was discussed some years ago (you may recall it Pinky). Leaving it to 'rest' between turning processes is quite an excellent thing to do and in the case of the LP12's Mazak castings, months were involved from beginning to end I remember.
Last first. It was an expensive acrylic, but any plastic needs to be rested between machinings, I am advised (and always have been) by the engineers I trust. Pink Triangle made a lot of acrylic platters over the years. Nice to know we got something right
Boing - yup interesting. In one of my very earliest posts on the forum I expressed the view that a suspension was the key to a good deck, and only slightly tongue-in-cheek. I still feel a bouncer is the way to go. When I first met up with Arthur again after a long period of not seeing him, about 3 or 4 years ago now, the first question I asked was "WTF are you doing making solid decks? Has something changed, or were you having me over with all that spin about why a Pink Triangle was special?" And his reply was that in his view a suspended deck was still the ultimate, but market forces had pushed him to solid. "People can't cope with wobbling suspended - they want plug and play". I know my views (and his) in that regard aren't shared by most on the forum - and I have to say the SL1210 I had on loan from him was an absolute ergonomic joy to use, but I stick to liking my wobblers.
However - it must surely work differently for different turntables. Isolation is important - but it will work better for some than others. I guess there is a fair chance it will work well on the SL1210. Why? I said earlier that Kinetic would create a "sort of Anni". When we decided to go for an ultimate Pink Triangle - the big leap was to put the motor on the sub-chassis. That was really different -and removed that suspension "drag" on the drive mechanism. To do it, not only did we need to dump that AC motor. We sourced the quietest highest quality DC motor we could find, and even THEN increased the damping and dispersion in the sub-chassis to handle it.
A turntable is not, in my view, just about spinning the record at the right speed -as Macca likes to maintain. Its about a synergistic approach to doing something with energy. Energy from the outside, energy from the stylus in the groove, and energy from the motor. And "doing something synergistic" doesn't mean just damping it. Indeed - both the PT and the FXR deal with energy without damping it - and the results work for me. But not having "nuisance" energy to deal with in the first place is the perfect solution.
So you want a quiet motor. Manifestly - that is an attribute the SL1200's have.
:cool:
It's the arse-end of nowhere. Not easy for a casual lunch from Wrexham. If you are travelling all the way to the Cathar Gourmand, you might as well pop 7km up the hill and listen to a proper HiFi ;)
Lol - I might take you up on that! The arse-end of nowhere is right up my street. I was perhaps thinking of on our way to Italy next year by car... It would require a small detour, but something I'd consider if the surrounding area was worth seeing. We never plan anything, and just tootle along our route as the mood takes us, so could factor in an extra day's stop on the journey :)
http://www.midi-france.info/04140301_blanquette.htm
http://www.salasar.fr/
Looks interesting, although I'm not a big white fizz kind of guy (good sparkling red wine, for me, is much more interesting). I do enjoy the odd glass of Champagne (or Crémant), but we're 85% red wine drinkers, and there's certainly plenty of superb red wine to be found in the south of France! I would be looking to get it served 'au pichet', at local prices...
Marco.
Oldpinkman
10-12-2015, 18:33
The Cheshire Cat of Newhaven with his new toys
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj505/struthsbowler/cats20got20the20cream_zps8qu0c2a0.jpg
A heavy cold had put him behind with work, so we skipped lunch - but still enjoyed a good chin-wag.
Some real surprises for both of us - and a promise to mount the motor on the sub-chassis for me as the next stage on my move from PT to Anni. Maybe. One day.
Oldpinkman
11-12-2015, 09:04
I'm having IT problems. Lots - but specifically with that picture of AK and his Bo!ng. It's the right way up on the Jpeg on my PC I try to upload. It then gets flipped on photobucket. I try to rotate 90 degrees on photobucket and it jams forever. When I go back and look at it, its flipped 180 degrees. Is it me, or is there some issue with Photobucket at the moment? :scratch:
I'll have another go, which may mean this post looks utterly stupid if I succeed in getting the old git back on his feet :doh:
Hi,
Sometimes if you check the image too soon after rotation it doesn't show as it is still doing it in the background, if you try it again it thinks you've told it twice hence the 180 rotation rather than 90.
Mike.
Oldpinkman
11-12-2015, 09:23
Let's try another one, since I promised Marco,
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/Techie%20on%20BONG_zps66wbm6tk.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/Techie%20on%20BONG_zps66wbm6tk.jpg.html)
OK - as of 9.22 11 Dec 2015 that looks right on my PC, although Arthur in the post above is still on his side. Arthur on the Photobucket tab to which that photo is directly linked is now the right way up. What am I doing wrong? Why can't things just work?
:mental:
Oldpinkman
11-12-2015, 09:26
Hi,
Sometimes if you check the image too soon after rotation it doesn't show as it is still doing it in the background, if you try it again it thinks you've told it twice hence the 180 rotation rather than 90.
Mike.
Thanks. That makes sense, and I think I was having that problem within Photobucket last night (the whole system seems really slow and unresponsive at the moment)
However it doesn't explain why AK is lieing down on AOS but standing up on Photobucket.
And as for trying to upload a tiny short video to Youtube AAAAGHHHH :stalks:
I'll come back to it later...
Oldpinkman
11-12-2015, 16:00
OMG now he's the right way up (on my PC, anyway - and I've touched nothing since this morning)
But he's huge. I'm sure it used to be possible to edit a pictures size in the post, or am I think of TAS? I daren't go near photobucket now he's the right way up.
The Youtube video has been veto'd! After the bloody thing finally uploaded.
This is definitely a bad hair day :mental:
I think you have to amend size in photobucket. That works for me anyway.
Oldpinkman
11-12-2015, 18:03
I think you have to amend size in photobucket. That works for me anyway.
I'll be brave and give it a go. Far too big to leave there. It was bad enough coping with him grinning all day. Ta
Oldpinkman
11-12-2015, 18:29
Firefox crashes now. Chrome is not crashing but taking ages. It seems to be Photobucket. Is there another service?
Tinypic is still a free service I think, otherwise you have imageshack but they now charge everyone
Firefox crashes now. Chrome is not crashing but taking ages. It seems to be Photobucket. Is there another service?
just done it for you.:)
Oldpinkman
11-12-2015, 19:17
just done it for you.:)
Brilliant. Thanks. I left it running while I had dinner and I'm on my tablet now. I'll have another look over the weekend. Er
How did you do it? Have you edited the pic on the forum or the original on photobucket?
I use Flickr - still free.
Brilliant. Thanks. I left it running while I had dinner and I'm on my tablet now. I'll have another look over the weekend. Er
How did you do it? Have you edited the pic on the forum or the original on photobucket?
I downloaded it; resized it; re-hosted it then posted it.. took 3 mins lol
Brilliant. Thanks. I left it running while I had dinner and I'm on my tablet now. I'll have another look over the weekend. Er
How did you do it? Have you edited the pic on the forum or the original on photobucket?
I downloaded it; resized it; re-hosted it then posted it.. took 3 mins lol
I used zoner18(there are free versions) for the re size and think I used the bucket to host it.
your welcome Richard
Oldpinkman
12-12-2015, 08:04
I should start a new thread for this IT stuff really. I suspect bitdefender and windows firewall are to blame. I have just installed the photobucket app on my hudl2 and it is effectively instant for all operations.
Only drawback is it has full functionality except resize!
The trip to Newhaven wasn't about forum IT issues. It was about making sure cageys jaw drops when he hears my pink triangle. And listening to an RP1 with a loose arm on BO!NG was a real brown trousers moment.
Minimum requirement for a fair fight is to get the motor on the subchassis. And if Arthur wants his tax return to go in on time he knows the minimum price. A slam-dunk would be if we could knock up a trilaminate subchassis, but I think I'm pushing my luck.
Of course, I won't fight fair. I have the awesome dynavector cartridge :eyebrows:
Hi Richard,
Thanks for posting the pics of Boing. It remains as something I'm very interested in trying, so are these available now from Arthur, and do they just screw into the plinth base of the Techy, like the Isonoes? :)
Good pic of the old chap, although he looks somewhat frailer than I remember him... I guess his poor health has taken it out of him a bit? That's understandable. Tell him to look after himself! :cool:
Marco.
Oldpinkman
12-12-2015, 09:06
Hi Richard,
Thanks for posting the pics of Boing. It remains as something I'm very interested in trying, so are these available now from Arthur, and do they just screw into the plinth base of the Techy, like the Isonoes? :)
Good pic of the old chap, although he looks somewhat frailer than I remember him... I guess his poor health has taken it out of him a bit? That's understandable. Tell him to look after himself! :cool:
Marco.
Actually Arthur is in robust health - apart from the stinking cold he was recovering from. Can't get him atm, and we are off out Christmas shopping. BO!NG has launched, and ships Monday, but I think the whole of the first production run has sold out. I have a set here I could photo. Sue was supposed to be having a go as part of her photography course I bought her for Christmas, but has yet to find the enthusiasm. No pictures on the website yet - marketing being a somewhat imprecise science with AK, although if he has sold out, perhaps thats sensible. I think he said the next batch may not be until February
They just screw in, and then you have to get a nice even bounce which takes a few goes - well it did with the Rega, but that only has 3 of them! Lowering the lid is a bit precarious - but then, on this forum, real men don't lower the lid! ;)
Ah, ok, glad he's in good health. He just looks rather more like a 'wee old man' than I remember him from the last time, but that was about 15 years ago! Anyway, I'll pop him an email about Boing and reserve a set of the next batch. Do you know how much they are roughly? :)
Don't get what you mean by the lid (not that I use one, anyway). How does installing a new set of feet affect the functionality of the lid? :scratch:
Marco.
Oldpinkman
12-12-2015, 14:43
A long time ago
in a galaxy far far away
I came on this forum and said a turntable should bounce. Around the same time I met up with Arthur again after a long time not seeing him, to get my 774 rewired, and saw his new Funk turntable range and asked WTF he was doing making solid turntables
And his answer was that the market had gone off bouncers because they were too fussy - and they wanted plug an play. I remember the trepidation with which I first used a suspended sub-chassis turntable myself. It's not as easy as a nice solid deck like an SL1200
The RP1 on BO!NG bounces with a beautiful languid "Pink Triangle" bounce. But you do have to be a bit more delicate using it. No real issues cueing the cartridge, but shutting the lid we both were a bit heavy handed once and caused the stylus to jump and skip a tad. Its not hard to be gentle and lower and raise the lid without fuss. But its not that hard to be heavy handed either. If, as seems to be the majority on AOS, you remove the lid when playing records anyway - then its a non-issue. If like Arthur and I you leave the lid on and close it when playing a record. then you have to be careful
It will be interesting to see what actual punters think - given Arthurs claim of a few years back that they are all wobbly old geezers wanting solidity and stability. The dealers and distributors are clearly very excited, but - it wobbles
I think AK is considering changing the springs for the Rega version and stiffening it up a bit - to make it less fussy to use. But I don't know whether it will affect the performance. Theres no doubt the languid slow bounce he had on that turntable gave a recognisable "Pink Triangle" affect to the bass resolution and instrument spacing. And that was a bog RP1 with RB200 arm not even properly mounted - it was loose in the deck!
On a Pink Triangle (or LP12, Ariston whatever) the lid is mounted on the rigid plinth and the sub-chassis bounces. Cueing the record is delicate, but you can rough handle the lid. On the RP1 (or SL1200) the lid is now effectively on the sub-chassis
As you say - if you remove the lid, then its not an issue :cool:
Ah, okies.... My lid was removed when I bought the T/T, and I don't think has been back on it since! Surprised Arthur play records with the lid on, as for me it sounds worse that way, as the lid is resonant.
Anyway, not to worry, so how much are these Boing? Wobbling doesn't worry me, as I have steady hands and good eyesight. All that matters is sonics. If they're ready to ship to dealers, they must have an established RRP :)
Marco.
Oldpinkman
12-12-2015, 15:16
I'll have another go of getting hold of him. I think a set was £140 - but that may be the Rega set which only has 3. A Technics set has 4 so it might be a bit more.
I'll have a go at a photo of the 3 I have here too. When I've had a mulled wine and some Christmas cake :cool:
Lol, cool. No rush... The finer things in life come first! ;)
Marco.
Oldpinkman
12-12-2015, 16:27
BO!NG
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/BONG_zpswahd5ljr.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/BONG_zpswahd5ljr.jpg.html)
Simples ;)
Cool. I might go for the blue ones, just to FUNKy things up a bit! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Oldpinkman
12-12-2015, 17:42
dont look very boingie;)
Au contraire mon brave
They produced a lovely free languid bounce on the Rega. The arm cable is a bit stiff which may be a bit of an issue (I know AK has concerns about the Clearaudio in that respect). Maybe the next accessory is Anniversary style "flying leads" to an off board connector. Who knows. But the RP1 managed a good bounce at probably 2Hz
The bolt is mounted to a disc with 6 holes in, and 3 , 4, or 6 springs connect from that to the outer structure, so the bolt bounces vertically inside the tube (when loaded with enough mass)
Retail prices inc VAT are £109 for a Rega set (3 units) , £148 for a set of 4 up to 15Kg (Clearaudio), £178 for a set of 4 up to 25Kg (SL1200) and £204 for a set of 4 up to 35Kg (anybody know a heavy turntable?)
No surcharge for FUNKy blue! ;)
It will be interesting to see what Kevin thinks given that he has already got fancy feet for isolation. My own feeling based on the RP1 is that a true suspension at around 2Hz produced a recognisable effect that I liked - but I have no direct experience of what other isolation feet do. (I think Kevins SL1200 had some non standard feet on when I listened to it last, but we just played records, we didn't dem what the effect of all the different mods he had done was). I just like what bouncy does :)
I do wonder whether my Pink Triangle thread has now drifted into Techipedia. I may drift back to talking about me mounting the motor on the sub-chassis? Although I guess that may be better once we actually do it.
Au contraire mon brave
They produced a lovely free languid bounce on the Rega. The arm cable is a bit stiff which may be a bit of an issue (I know AK has concerns about the Clearaudio in that respect). Maybe the next accessory is Anniversary style "flying leads" to an off board connector. Who knows. But the RP1 managed a good bounce at probably 2Hz
The bolt is mounted to a disc with 6 holes in, and 3 , 4, or 6 springs connect from that to the outer structure, so the bolt bounces vertically inside the tube (when loaded with enough mass)
Retail prices inc VAT are £109 for a Rega set (3 units) , £148 for a set of 4 up to 15Kg (Clearaudio), £178 for a set of 4 up to 25Kg (SL1200) and £204 for a set of 4 up to 35Kg (anybody know a heavy turntable?)
No surcharge for FUNKy blue! ;)
It will be interesting to see what Kevin thinks given that he has already got fancy feet for isolation. My own feeling based on the RP1 is that a true suspension at around 2Hz produced a recognisable effect that I liked - but I have no direct experience of what other isolation feet do. (I think Kevins SL1200 had some non standard feet on when I listened to it last, but we just played records, we didn't dem what the effect of all the different mods he had done was). I just like what bouncy does :)
I do wonder whether my Pink Triangle thread has now drifted into Techipedia. I may drift back to talking about me mounting the motor on the sub-chassis? Although I guess that may be better once we actually do it.
So you wont tighten them right to the bottom then, or do they split in two? or are the bottoms open and a plunger comes out.... I found the mag lev ones very good on tt, giving 1 way iso but with spring effect. about the same pricepoint too
Doesn't the SL-1200 only weight around 12 kg?
Oldpinkman
12-12-2015, 18:12
Oh 'eck
I don't know what an SL1200 weighs. There is supposed to be a Funk website relaunch any day. I'll pass the question on when I see him next - but I may have got my weights muddled - or the wrong end of the ranges. I'm not phoning him again this weekend. He is threatening to come up before Christmas. That'll be the first time in at least 15 years. The last time he came here, he had a different partner, I was married to my first wife, and our recently born foal flattened him out in the paddocks after I'd said "don't worry - they might run at you but they'll always avoid you" :D
Grant - its a hollow tube. The bolt through the middle of the little ring with the holes in is then I believe screwed into an M8 socket on the TT where the original feet screwed, and height adjustment is with a lock nut to that - I think. Does that make sense ? :scratch:
The sooner Cagey gets a set the better. He can explain it properly. I have a Pink Triangle. It doesn't need BO!NG - it bounces very nicely as it is. What it needs is the motor on the sub-chassis so that the bounce isn't yanked about by the belt, and just maybe it needs that motor upgrading to an ultra silky quiet one if it's not going to be isolated from the sub-chassis - although being a PT1 - the original motor is not bad, and might work on the sub-chassis. Then , maybe, it needs the additional sub-chassis rigidity that the trilaminate gives to fill out the bass.
Does anyone have a set or bathroom scales they can put a Techie on?
:rolleyes:
It will be interesting to see what Kevin thinks given that he has already got fancy feet for isolation. My own feeling based on the RP1 is that a true suspension at around 2Hz produced a recognisable effect that I liked - but I have no direct experience of what other isolation feet do. (I think Kevins SL1200 had some non standard feet on when I listened to it last, but we just played records, we didn't dem what the effect of all the different mods he had done was). I just like what bouncy does :)
I think Kevin uses Isonoes, same as me, so yes, it'll be interesting what he thinks :)
Yeah, way too many riff-raff here with their Techy chat! :D
Marco.
Doesn't the SL-1200 only weight around 12 kg?
11kg. Copied from Wiki:
Specifications[edit]
Dimensions MK1: 45.3 cm (w) x 36.6 cm (d) x 18 cm (h)
Dimensions MK2: 45.3 cm (w) x 36 cm (d) x 16.2 cm (h)
Weight: 11 kg (net, unboxed without lid)
Voltage: 220 V / 110 V (selectable)
Pitch Control: +/- 8%
Starting Time (MK2): 0.7s
Rotation Speeds: 33-1/3 & 45 rpm
Marco.
:doh: Just have to google it ;) says 11 kgs plus the lid and I suppose any extras, so Marcos will be a fair bit more lol. that glass mat weighs a kilo alone.:lol:
thanks for the info. think I get it
Yeah, I'd have to go for the heavier ones.... Probably up to 35kg, just to be safe :)
Marco.
Oldpinkman
12-12-2015, 19:27
Just for you Grant
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I have been cautious about detailed close-ups because the reason I have these 3 desk paperweights is that they are QC rejects for cosmetic reasons
In the wake of plattergate, the last thing I wanted to inflict on Arthur was a string of complaints about finish
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/boing%20revealed_zpsswjyyzdh.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/boing%20revealed_zpsswjyyzdh.jpg.html)
But hopefully, that shows you how they work
The plastic top-plate, held in by 3 small phillips screws, is removed to fit more springs to the outer cylinder. Spring gauge and quantity help "tune" the bounce
:cool:
Looks very smilar to these:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/8a3f72380115da168d3fa23b8e3e4d4d.jpg
Swedish Solid Tech Feet of Silence.
That said, i have never heard their effect. Like the idea!
Just for you Grant
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I have been cautious about detailed close-ups because the reason I have these 3 desk paperweights is that they are QC rejects for cosmetic reasons
In the wake of plattergate, the last thing I wanted to inflict on Arthur was a string of complaints about finish
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/boing%20revealed_zpsswjyyzdh.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/boing%20revealed_zpsswjyyzdh.jpg.html)
But hopefully, that shows you how they work
The plastic top-plate, held in by 3 small phillips screws, is removed to fit more springs to the outer cylinder. Spring gauge and quantity help "tune" the bounce
:cool:
There's a key difference though, mon ami: they haven't been sold to anyone! ;)
Interesting design, though.
Marco.
Just for you Grant
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I have been cautious about detailed close-ups because the reason I have these 3 desk paperweights is that they are QC rejects for cosmetic reasons
In the wake of plattergate, the last thing I wanted to inflict on Arthur was a string of complaints about finish
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/boing%20revealed_zpsswjyyzdh.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/boing%20revealed_zpsswjyyzdh.jpg.html)
But hopefully, that shows you how they work
The plastic top-plate, held in by 3 small phillips screws, is removed to fit more springs to the outer cylinder. Spring gauge and quantity help "tune" the bounce
:cool:
Yup, thanks... using the bedspring arrangement ;) Should work well. As Mike says another company did something similar.
What's the lateral isolation frequency of the Boing?
Oldpinkman
13-12-2015, 08:20
Looks very smilar to these:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/8a3f72380115da168d3fa23b8e3e4d4d.jpg
Swedish Solid Tech Feet of Silence.
That said, i have never heard their effect. Like the idea!
They look very similar. From the solid tech website they appear to have been superceded by a superior design using external springs hanging vertically and selling for €300 per foot. The original design seems to have the spare holes which would allow more than 3 springs to accommodate higher mass. The current version has a pad and is universal for resting equipment on - they appear to have cd players in mind.
I think AK has hopes of producing versions for other equipment like this, if BO!NG is a success. But for now, I think, they are being sold as turntable specific kits, with fixings specific to the turntable, and spring ratings tuned for a specific frequency, rather than just any spring as an isolator. He mentioned 2 sl1200 variants. A firmer version for the DJ market and a softer "audiophile" version for hi-fi.
But tomorrow is another day :)
I realise i may have confused some, the pictured Solid Tech product are actually Disc of Silence. The ones with external rubber springs you describe are the Feet of Silence.
The same technology are builtin in their racks too.
But enough of that, sorry to thread crap!
Looking forward to hearing about using the Bo!ng feet when used under record players!
Oldpinkman
13-12-2015, 09:48
But enough of that, sorry to thread crap!
Looking forward to hearing about using the Bo!ng feet when used under record players!
Given this thread started life (broadly) with the intention of being my account of how a PT1 could be enhanced to "Anniversary" status, derived from another thread on another forum which broadly upgraded a PT Export along the same lines, but missed the point a bit (motor on sub-chassis is essential - the very essence of Anniversary, sub-platter did get some additional damping but MAINLY additional rigidity which treating it with a damping compound is not going to help etc - oh, and a DC motor is de rigeur)
I've already (with others) crapped thoroughly over my own thread. Fill your boots! :)
BO!NG
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/BONG_zpswahd5ljr.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/BONG_zpswahd5ljr.jpg.html)
Simples ;)
Nom, nom :eek:, l should really look into tweaking my Techie in the New Year, these Funk products are moistening my audio loins.:cool:
Oldpinkman
21-12-2015, 09:27
Back on topic
To recap - this kicked off because I asked Arthur for assistance with "an Anni conversion" based on a Vinyl Engine thread about modifying a PT TOO with "Anniversary upgrades". I may return to this, but the short version is that, whilst it was nice to see a PT enthusiast, and another old PT that wasn't the bag of nails many remember, the conversion pretty fundamentally missed the point. Apart from a strip and rebuild, in essence, it damped the top-plate (PT TOO has the motor mounted to it), changed the bearing, stuck an Achromat on, made a sort of Anni armboard, rewired, glued the suspension frame better, stuffed the cavity by putting "damping" on a new beefier baseboard, and damped the sub-chassis by spraying it with a 1mm thick layer of "Quiet Kote".
I enjoyed the read, and the PT enthusiasm, but it pretty fundamentally missed the point. By contrast (apart from taking advantage of the chance to improve fit and finish) Anni was 1) put motor on sub-chassis 2) improve sub-chassis RIGIDITY 3) improve motor and electronics, and I was about to list the rest, but they were more a consequences of 1 & 2 (as indeed you could argue was 3) - although they bought additional enhancements with them (like damping the cavity).
So - to avoid this "restart" post getting too long, we were back at 1) put motor on sub-chassis, now I have to face Kevin and his funk'd Technics (spin, strata, BO!NG) when we get together in the South of France. Incidentally both spin and strata for the SL1200 have been revised since Kevins "hobbyist" versions and are I think now in "final" production form. In the case of strata that involves smaller diameter, neater edge, and for spin it now fits without any modification to the PCB - the clearance is improved. Performance is unchanged.
Interestingly this has led AK and I back down the original Anni route - almost to the point the job is "all or nothing". When Anni was being conceived - the standard PT was Export - with the Linn/Rega AC motor. For this concept the AC motor had to go - and a high quality DC motor be used. Actually, although a bit noisy, the DC motor on a PT1 isn't bad - and we can consider using it for stage 1 - although I will probably opt to upgrade to the original Anni premotec, or a K Drive motor eventually. But WHERE do you mount the motor? My PT1 has it at about 11 o'clock. Later PT's moved it inline between the arm pivot and the stylus (averaged) because the unwanted vibrational energy of the motor is in line with the cantilevers least sensitive plane of movement.
On the Anni, it ends up where the transit bolt on a PT 1 is. Anyone care to join in and explain why? And what the complication that creates is?
As it is a belt drive why not have the motor entirely off-board?
Or am I missing something?
Oldpinkman
21-12-2015, 11:44
As it is a belt drive why not have the motor entirely off-board?
Or am I missing something?
Thanks for replying. Belt drive "Off board" is normal. Its what PT1 , LP12 and every other "suspended" deck before did. The problem this creates is that the belt wrapped round the motor tugs the platter as the suspension bounces. It also tries to twist the suspended sub-chassis around the pivot point at the bearing. This is the weakness of suspended decks - the price of great isolation.
So the Anniversary "revolution" was to mount the motor on the sub-chassis (and with it create very fine cable "flying leads" from the armboard to the plinth, replacing the standard chunky arm cable, and having 2 rca sockets on the plinth which interconnects for the turntable to phono stage plug in to). The fact that the suspended mass is now not "tugged" by the belt, nor "tugged" by a heavy arm cable, leaves a very free and stable bounce.
OK - clue coming up here to the transit bolt question. One of the big innovations of PT 1 - compared with LP12 , and Ariston, Thorens predecessors, and Systemdek, and other "clones" - was to stablilise the suspension with gravity. On an LP12 the sub-chassis sits on 3 springs, with most of the mass on one side where the platter is. If you take a weight balanced on a spring - particularly if that weight is not central to the spring, if it is destablised gravity will make it topple over. The system is inherantly unstable - and gravity destabilises it (makes it want to topple over rather than stay central and upright). If you hang the weight from a spring and pull it away from centre, gravity will cause it to return to its central position
The Pink Triangle hangs the subchassis on springs (as does Anni) instead of perching it on top of them. But 3 springs - not one spring. So the centre of mass has to be at the centre of suspension for the self-stabilising effect to work. The centre of suspension is the transit bolt on a PT1. This is maintained by adding an appropriate arm weight to the armboard (so a standard PT armboard was cut to the right shape for an arm AND had the right amount of lead added to it). By ensuring that the total mass at the armboard (arm plus weight) is correct, the centre of mass was APPROXIMATELY balanced at the centre of suspension (thick records...)
A failure to understand this basic concept of a Pink Triangle suspension - get the centre of mass at the centre of suspension, then just level the springs using the adjusters, and dress the arm cable to give minimum interference - was probably what led one Anni DIY tinkerer on another forum to fundamentally undermine the concept and remove the suspension altogether. If the deck isn't broken, the only reason you won't get a nice even bounce is if it is unbalanced with the centre of mass NOT at the centre of suspension. Easy to do if you get a new arm, and just cut an armboard to shape without adding the correct amount of lead. Changing spring rates (as this individual attempted) change the frequency of the suspension (its compliance - or bounce rate) but won't fix any unbalance. That simply requires getting the mass in the right place
But getting the suspension freed by putting the motor on the sub-chassis was one of the 2 key innovations and keys to Anni's success. :cool:
By 'off board' I am talking about those decks that have the motor in an entirely separate box with the belt spanning the distance between it and the platter. Can't think of the name of one right now but there is more than one design using that method.
I suppose this would still tug at the platter and suspension, though.
I s'pose the reason for mounting the motor on the "main" chassi and only keeping it in contact with the sub chassi by the "rubber band" is to keep vibration/noise away from the mechanically hard coupled tone arm/platter/bearing.
What makes it such a splendid idea to do away with all this and mount the motor on the sub chassi? Is it the DC motor that makes this possible? ;)
To me DC motors are more mechanically noisy than a well tuned AC syncro motor...
Fully agree with the thinking on the springs though. Thorens have used flat blade springs and othe manufacturers also have chosen better solutions than Linn, as Michell for example.
The latter being very much the same thinking as PT if i understand it correctly.
/Mike
Oldpinkman
21-12-2015, 17:19
By 'off board' I am talking about those decks that have the motor in an entirely separate box with the belt spanning the distance between it and the platter. Can't think of the name of one right now but there is more than one design using that method.
I suppose this would still tug at the platter and suspension, though.
It would. Your only real benefit then is further isolation of the motor from the plinth / strucure supporting any suspended sub-chassis. It doesn't address that free bounce suspension issue. And motor isolation is not the biggest deal. Although, as I shall reply to Alpha - it is still a deal
Oldpinkman
21-12-2015, 17:24
I s'pose the reason for mounting the motor on the "main" chassi and only keeping it in contact with the sub chassi by the "rubber band" is to keep vibration/noise away from the mechanically hard coupled tone arm/platter/bearing.
What makes it such a splendid idea to do away with all this and mount the motor on the sub chassi? Is it the DC motor that makes this possible? ;)
To me DC motors are more mechanically noisy than a well tuned AC syncro motor...
Fully agree with the thinking on the springs though. Thorens have used flat blade springs and othe manufacturers also have chosen better solutions than Linn, as Michell for example.
The latter being very much the same thinking as PT if i understand it correctly.
/Mike
Yes - the problem of putting a motor on the sub-chassis (apart from working out where to put it) is that you then remove a noise filter compared with having it on the plinth as a noise sink. The Anni addressed this by creating a mount for the motor which itself damped a lot of noise, was somewhat isolated from the sub-chassis, was the lowest noise we could find (I was once asked the difference between the VX and K Drive - with K drive holding the motor in my hand and my eyes shut, I don't know whether the motor is running or not)
And of course the Anni sub-chassis, in addition to significant additional rigidity, also has damping of the energy from the motor.
I know Arthur doesnt agree with your views on AC motors - and indeed, it appears the whole world is now coming round to the PT way of thinking. Even Linn fit a DC motor in their top LP12. The premotec in Anni is really quiet. :cool:
Audio Advent
21-12-2015, 21:21
I've already (with others) crapped thoroughly over my own thread. Fill your boots! :)
This is getting disgusting...
Audio Advent
21-12-2015, 21:34
Back on topic
To recap - this kicked off because I asked Arthur for assistance with "an Anni conversion" based on a Vinyl Engine thread about modifying a PT TOO with "Anniversary upgrades". I may return to this, but the short version is that, whilst it was nice to see a PT enthusiast, and another old PT that wasn't the bag of nails many remember, the conversion pretty fundamentally missed the point. Apart from a strip and rebuild, in essence, it damped the top-plate (PT TOO has the motor mounted to it), changed the bearing, stuck an Achromat on, made a sort of Anni armboard, rewired, glued the suspension frame better, stuffed the cavity by putting "damping" on a new beefier baseboard, and damped the sub-chassis by spraying it with a 1mm thick layer of "Quiet Kote".
I enjoyed the read, and the PT enthusiasm, but it pretty fundamentally missed the point. By contrast (apart from taking advantage of the chance to improve fit and finish) Anni was 1) put motor on sub-chassis 2) improve sub-chassis RIGIDITY 3) improve motor and electronics, and I was about to list the rest, but they were more a consequences of 1 & 2 (as indeed you could argue was 3) - although they bought additional enhancements with them (like damping the cavity).
So - to avoid this "restart" post getting too long, we were back at 1) put motor on sub-chassis, now I have to face Kevin and his funk'd Technics (spin, strata, BO!NG) when we get together in the South of France. Incidentally both spin and strata for the SL1200 have been revised since Kevins "hobbyist" versions and are I think now in "final" production form. In the case of strata that involves smaller diameter, neater edge, and for spin it now fits without any modification to the PCB - the clearance is improved. Performance is unchanged.
Interestingly this has led AK and I back down the original Anni route - almost to the point the job is "all or nothing". When Anni was being conceived - the standard PT was Export - with the Linn/Rega AC motor. For this concept the AC motor had to go - and a high quality DC motor be used. Actually, although a bit noisy, the DC motor on a PT1 isn't bad - and we can consider using it for stage 1 - although I will probably opt to upgrade to the original Anni premotec, or a K Drive motor eventually. But WHERE do you mount the motor? My PT1 has it at about 11 o'clock. Later PT's moved it inline between the arm pivot and the stylus (averaged) because the unwanted vibrational energy of the motor is in line with the cantilevers least sensitive plane of movement.
On the Anni, it ends up where the transit bolt on a PT 1 is. Anyone care to join in and explain why? And what the complication that creates is?
I'd guess the transit bolt would have been placed about where the centre of gravity was on the subchassis to stop any twist on the bolt when being secured, and also perhaps the threaded bit in the subchassis wouldn't unbalance anything.
Have you not seen the effots on vinylengine and the "Mini Anni" projects? Well it's more one guy but he's done exactly that and placed the DC motor of a late PT1 on the subchasis at the correct position and also filled in the plinth like an Anni and copied the suspension of an Anni using angled carbon fibre instead of the steel used on an Anni. He's made up new subchassis' too but as per the Vector upgrades - Carbon/Balsa sandwich. He then took to putting the vector pullies on too.
Anyway, I saw a battery PSU Anniversary in black (least desirable colour) sell for £1850 the other day on ebay so you have a lot of cost leeway before it becomes easier to find and buy an Anniversary instead.
Oldpinkman
22-12-2015, 07:25
I'd guess the transit bolt would have been placed about where the centre of gravity was on the subchassis to stop any twist on the bolt when being secured, and also perhaps the threaded bit in the subchassis wouldn't unbalance anything.
Have you not seen the effots on vinylengine and the "Mini Anni" projects? Well it's more one guy but he's done exactly that and placed the DC motor of a late PT1 on the subchasis at the correct position and also filled in the plinth like an Anni and copied the suspension of an Anni using angled carbon fibre instead of the steel used on an Anni. He's made up new subchassis' too but as per the Vector upgrades - Carbon/Balsa sandwich. He then took to putting the vector pullies on too.
Anyway, I saw a battery PSU Anniversary in black (least desirable colour) sell for £1850 the other day on ebay so you have a lot of cost leeway before it becomes easier to find and buy an Anniversary instead.
The transit bolt was at the centre of suspension and hence, as described in my earlier post, the centre of mass. If adding (relatively) substantial mass in the form of the motor, then it is best added at that point, or the suspension points have to be moved or the mass distribution changed. This creates 2 problems - the minor one of needing to move the transit bolt, and the more significant one that the motor fouls the suspension support rails.
I have seen the vinyl engine thread which I referred to in the post you have just quoted, and seem in part to be referring to, which is what prompted this thread as it missed the point of anni. I know of the carbon-fibre /balsa laminate subchassis, and I've seen the "mini anniversary" Tim bissel sold on ebay recently - for about £500. But not the thread you seem to be referring to. Can you supply a link?
The problem we are about to encounter is that the materials for the original trilaminate chassis are no longer available, and the manufacturer we used is unable and unwilling to supply them again, and that combination of light weight and high rigidity, and damping and dispersion, were key to the success. The cf/balsa was a poor, poor man's second - and arguably inferior to a pt1 chassis.
It will be interesting to see if we can achieve the effect without resorting to a straight copy of the original. Although I planned to copy the vinyl engine ideas on my own, I wouldn't fancy this project without Arthur's help, tooling, and engineering resources - but I am a timid diy-er
Oldpinkman
22-12-2015, 07:27
This is getting disgusting...
Only meant to say there had been a lot of drift, and I was OK with it:)
Oldpinkman
15-01-2016, 14:41
Funk Advert - you have been warned. Avert your gaze if that offends you.
Ok - I was wondering where to post this - and decided here is as good as anywhere, on the thin pretext that an Achromat is part of the overall modifications in project "pimp PT". And may be an essential part if we go with the strata platter, and associated suspension modifications (don't hold your breath - there has been a lot of mind changing)
Anyway - this came out today, and it tickled me, so I thought it rude not to share, even though it is just an American youtube video about Achromat, under the heading "Best Kept Secrets".
Warning twice so you can turn away
It is VERY American
And it is a straight Funk Achromat promo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4hhRTSw1bo&feature=youtu.be
God Bless America! :lol:
Ive seen worse. :) Ive got a yellow 3mm one by the way, but took it off after an extended trial... it was very good, but think I prefer my double cork/rubber composite
Excellent infomercial.
Is anyone currently using an Achromat on their SL1200? I am intrigued and the price is not too silly to put me off. Can one get a free trial?
I used to use one on my Techie standard platter.
It was better than the rubber mat. I think that the regulations for distance selling allow you to return the goods if you are not happy.
Is there a friendly funk dealer near you? Worth a try there first?
Is Richer Sounds a Funk dealer? Otherwise no. Anyway if you buy from a store you don't get mail order refund rights unless the store agree.
I was thinking that you could purchase the mat "on a trial basis" to try it at home. Basically putting down a deposit. I have done this with HiFi purchases in the past.
Analogue seduction sell them online.
Thanks Kevin. I will ponder for a while then order one, I think.
Oldpinkman
16-01-2016, 09:32
Ive seen worse. :) Ive got a yellow 3mm one by the way, but took it off after an extended trial... it was very good, but think I prefer my double cork/rubber composite
What do you or I know Grant? Turns out Mike Fremer is Canadian not American, and a big nob in analogue audio, "regarded as the world's numero uno analogue reviewer", and I need to show a bit more respect.
No change there then. Arthur always did try to hang out with the big nobs :D
Its a good product so no harm in using the best to advertise it, big knob or not. It was put together though a bit suggesting the guy took numerous takes to get it right.
Think it would be good upgrade for a basic techie. Its good on a thorens too but my slatedeck doesnt use a mat so mine will get sold at some stage
Oldpinkman
16-01-2016, 10:41
Just giving the old boy a bit of a hard time. I thought everyone knew Achromat worked by turning the kinetic energy into heat - its what a PT sub-chassis does, and I am fairly sure in the rambles above I mentioned that. Accordingly its impact on a Pink Triangle is "subtle" rather than "night and day" - and I am not fond of the red colour of mine. But they work much more effectively on decks which aren't already dealing with the energy in that way.
It becomes necessary on my modifications, if we go with the strata platter, which is a logical conclusion from a decision to do an alternative sub-chassis rigidity upgrade. Trouble with this project is it is a never ending game of consequences (not at all unlike a re-run of the original Anni design saga). If we use strata for the increased rigidity, ideally we want a 5mm not a 3mm Achromat. That needs VTA adjustment. No problem - the FXR (and AK57 Arthur wants to try on it if we ever build it) both have VTA adjustment - but - ... with my Dynavector cartridge, the arm is already nearly touching the lid (its about 1mm off) - so I would need a higher lid, or some sort of plinth band to fit on that famous skirting board plinth and raise the lid, with the hinges re-fixed a bit higher. This is one of the reasons its taking so long to get started...:(
walpurgis
16-01-2016, 11:05
I thought everyone knew Achromat worked by turning the kinetic energy into heat
Surely all energy conversion involves heat. A moving solid object only slows due to friction in whatever medium it is moving through. The friction producing heat as the kinetic energy is converted.
Oldpinkman
16-01-2016, 11:36
Surely all energy conversion involves heat. A moving solid object only slows due to friction in whatever medium it is moving through. The friction producing heat as the kinetic energy is converted.
The energy created at the bottom of the record groove doesn't auto spontaneously convert to heat. Some reflects back into the stylus, moves the stylus (kinetic energy) and in turn generates another form of energy in electricity in the cartridge coils. The idea is to make that "Bad" energy do something other than reflect into the stylus. if it is channelled into an achromat and converted to heat, it is not reflecting back into the cartridge coils. It is of course, not that simple, but that''s the broad idea.
Energy is converted from one form to another (it can't be created or destroyed) - not necessarily heat, although that is often a byproduct . The heat we are talking about here starts life as electrical energy from the mains converted to kinetic energy in the turntable motor, some converted back to electrical energy though the cartridge coils, some given off as acoustic energy in the form of "needle talk", and some looking for somewhere to go, which might otherwise reflect back and move the stylus.
So I was a bit casual in my analogy of an achromat as a "Pink Triangle in a box" - since a PT first channels energy to the sub-chassis and then deals with it by conversion, into acoustic energy as well as heat. The point is that turntable design is about choosing what to do with energy** because otherwise it is likely to reflect about in unwanted ways that add colouration in the way old Mitch referred to. And Achromat deals with it by being a close impedance match to vinyl (so allowing it to transfer into the mat easily) and then dispersing it as heat. It doesn't of course do either perfectly. Just better than other options. How well that works on your turntable depends on what else it is doing with energy.
** of course, as Macca would point out, a turntable also needs to spin the record at the right speed. And I think that's all he claims it needs to do.
Really, when I said "turntable design" I meant "record player design". Arms have to deal with unwanted energy too. And conversion to heat is not the norm there (although I guess some does)
walpurgis
16-01-2016, 11:47
There will be heat generated at the interface between the stylus tip and moving record vinyl and in the cantilever suspension and in the air surrounding the cantilever as it oscillates and from the pickup arm as it moves slowly through the air traversing the record and by the record's friction against the air as it rotates and in the oil surrounding the platter bearing and so on. :)
Oldpinkman
16-01-2016, 12:13
There will be heat generated at the interface between the stylus tip and moving record vinyl and in the cantilever suspension and in the air surrounding the cantilever as it oscillates and from the pickup arm as it moves slowly through the air traversing the record and by the record's friction against the air as it rotates and in the oil surrounding the platter bearing and so on. :)
Yup - there will. I think the point is supposed to be that there is other energy too. Energy other than all that heat you referred to. Other than the electrical energy we want out of the cartridge coils. Other energy which might feed through into an arm tube and vibrate it creating one set of problems, or reflect around in the record groove, creating another set.
What our Mitch is saying, and I learned at my Grandpa's knee from Arthur, is that trying to do SOMETHING ELSE with that "stray" energy means it minimises the extent to which it interferes with the stylus (and associated chain all the way up to producing an electric signal in the cartridge coils)
And in the case of Achromat - "trying to do something else" is getting all of it evenly (across all frequencies) to transfer into the mat, and then get dispersed in the mat as heat. That's the theory. Mitch seems to like it, with puppy dog excitement :D
And he goes on to describe what the affects on the sound are - in his opinion. Certainly that accords with Grandpa's knee and the way we approached stuff at Pink. And it is the reasoning we are using in my personal turntable project. Past experience suggests that sometimes the theoretical approach can produce a real duffer, but more often than not we like what we get. I have high hopes this time - if it ever gets off the ground. My main reservation is that we are pursuing a game of diminishing returns - my original PT 1 with an achromat, improved power supply, and new spin bearing, is already pretty good. We are looking at a lot of engineering for maybe shavings of "sonic improvement".
My other worry, is that most of this project (not all - but the big engineering) is aimed at increasing "Bass slam". And whilst I don't mind a bit of slam, I worry about too much "emphasis", since in my experience increased bass output creates a preceived treble cut (even when I can look at the measurements and know that the treble hasn't actually been cut) and I associate that with veiling imaging. In the final analysis, if I have to trade off, I am going to choose to keep the effete light-weight transparent stuff that I treasure in my PT.
And I just have no time to do this properly in January...:(
** of course, as Macca would point out, a turntable also needs to spin the record at the right speed. And I think that's all he claims it needs to do.
)
I think you'll find the exact quote is 'All a turntable has to do is revolve at the correct speed and be as immune as possible from internal and external vibration' The context of that was in regard to some people thinking turntables had magical or mysterious properties imbued in them that made them sound 'good'. So nothing at all to do with this discussion.
Ali Tait
16-01-2016, 13:40
Excellent infomercial.
Is anyone currently using an Achromat on their SL1200? I am intrigued and the price is not too silly to put me off. Can one get a free trial?
PM your address mate, I've one I can send you to try.
Oldpinkman
16-01-2016, 13:56
I think you'll find the exact quote is 'All a turntable has to do is revolve at the correct speed and be as immune as possible from internal and external vibration' The context of that was in regard to some people thinking turntables had magical or mysterious properties imbued in them that made them sound 'good'. So nothing at all to do with this discussion.
Just teasing ;)
Actually I was thinking about you on Thursday night whilst having a rare vinyl listening session. I was playing some records I have had 30 years or more and I am used to how they sound on my old Systemdek/Linn combo that I had for years, and I recalled your 'listening in a balaclava' description of the stock Techy, comparing how I recall those records sounding on the sprung belt drive compared to the SL1200. (cartridge being a Nagaoka in both cases). Although your 'balaclava' term is a bit prejudicial I sort of see what you mean now. It's not a big difference in presentation but it is enough to be noticed by anything other than a casual listener.
Oldpinkman
16-01-2016, 18:06
30 years - that's some memory - but I know what you mean. The Pink Triangle was "even more so". It got knocked for being "light" - physically as a unit, as well as in presentation. HiFi guys like their kit tough and chunky. A PT weighs nothing and is deemed "weedy" as a result, although low mass is critical to the design concept. Anniversary had some genuine "sonic" upgrades, but stuffing the plinth with MDF was also about making it heavier to pick up. More your leather cap and jacket gay than the Julian Clary original.
But with that "light" was a lot of space, air, and detail, and freedom from colouration and "muffle". Who knows, one day maybe we'll do that beer and you can meet a Pink Triangle in the flesh. In the meantime, I am off to have a proper sulk, after being a prize dick-head, and doing something I promised not to - vis trying to tension the dust covers on the ESL63s before the last tax return was in. And yes, I've burned a hole in one. Patched with insulating tape for now, but I'm going to put the Ventricals back in until I can repair it properly.
BUGGER! :(
The records are thirty years old but I last heard them on the other turntable just a couple of years ago.
Oldpinkman
16-01-2016, 21:22
Yes I realised something like that. But I recognised a quad 44 and a NAD 3020 after more than 10 years when I heard them. The ventricals formerly those big ugly speakers have been rejected. Looks like I'll be putting the quads back in,complete with insulating tape bandaid. Mrs S was adamant
Oldpinkman
02-02-2016, 09:28
Well, probably unremarkably, less happened than expected yesterday. :( I had 12 sets of books to drop off to clients, and Arthur was having Italian troubles. I failed to build my linear power supply on Sunday, and Arthur hadn't finished the motor on sub-chassis mounting kit.:popcorn:
However, I did upgrade my "spin" bearing. This wasn't supposed to be anything other than cosmetic. Spin as a Pink Triangle bearing - as supplied to me, relied on a bonded Achromat to align a bearing which now had a base plate bond to the platter, and not an interference fit of shaft in platter hole. It didn't really matter to me since I had a bonded achromat in the first place, but I didn't like the idea and endlessly told him so. To the point of arranging to have a friend with an engineering business machine a bush for me. Yer man relented and has revised the PT bearing housing, and I took delivery yesterday as a palliative for not having the motor mount done.:)
We checked for fit and spin with the bearing dry and with the suspension locked at the factory, but didn't play it. Now, I have to be careful what I say to a Gay man, who once described the standard Linn bearing to me as a "dick in a bucket" - but goodness Arthur, with a bit of oil for lubrication, this ones a tight fit! :eek: I kid you not, when I lubricated it at home I seriously wondered if it was faulty. It doesn't help of course that to fit the belt to a lubricated bearing needs the sub-chassis to be free, which limits the down force you can apply**. But it took about 10 minutes of pressing, coaxing, spinning, and hoping before it finally seated. Which of course, leaves the paranoid wondering if it is too tight. So, slightly apprehensive about having to take the platter off and refit the bloody thing again, I flicked the belt off and span the platter. I got bored - but it is approaching a perpetual motion machine.
Hopefully we can move on to the proper stuff now. With the tax returns filed, (John Inmann voice) "I'm free". ;) Yer man, of course, is busy running a business, but what sort of excuse is that?
** I am going to add another simple modification to make using the Michell record clamp feasible for my warped records - just a ring fixed to the top-plate around the bearing hole for the platter to push down onto without straining the suspension, or forcing the sub-chassis onto the baseboard.
Firebottle
02-02-2016, 12:58
And yes, I've burned a hole in one. Patched with insulating tape for now, :(
Magic tape is what you need for that Richard. Just apply and forget (yes I've been there).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotch-810-Magic-Tape-19mmx33M/dp/B0013DAV8E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454417816&sr=8-2&keywords=magic+tape+scotch
Oldpinkman
02-02-2016, 16:56
Magic tape is what you need for that Richard. Just apply and forget (yes I've been there).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotch-810-Magic-Tape-19mmx33M/dp/B0013DAV8E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454417816&sr=8-2&keywords=magic+tape+scotch
Thanks. I'll bear that in mind for next time. It unfortunately has not very good insulating tape on ATM (although actually it sounds fine - perfect). However, I have a repair kit from One Thing Audio, with enough material for 8 dustcovers, so I'll remake that one at the very least , and get "brave" with tensioning the rest on the basis I can either try your magic tape, or build another if I need to.
System is actually sounding really good - I am a bit reluctant to meddle more, on the old "if it aint broke dont fix it principal". But I might leave repairing the speakers until we get to France, because the journey down might affect them
:cool:
Audio Advent
03-02-2016, 23:18
Anniversary had some genuine "sonic" upgrades, but stuffing the plinth with MDF was also about making it heavier to pick up. More your leather cap and jacket gay than the Julian Clary original.
Is that really true? Nothing in the higher mass of the Anni was to help give a more solid base for the now completely sprung turntable, it was purely for aesthetics?
I'm asking as that would mean that people making copies of the anni by replicating the plinth would be wasting their time and it would work just as well on a normal, lightweight PT plinth.
Oldpinkman
04-02-2016, 08:17
Is that really true?
Mostly
Nothing is ever purely aesthetics - everything in audio matters (I'm sure one of the electronics designers on here says that). Maybe the mirror top-plate sounds better than metal - but it was primarily for cosmetic reasons. Maybe the plinth rigidity (more than the mass - it is internal cross bracing) has an effect. But it was mainly because if you lift off that now removable mirror top plate, you have a pretty interior inside, with the suspension mounts in neat nextel-sprayed mdf channels, instead of "cheap flimsy" metal rails, and there are no rails fouling a motor mount in-line with the stylus. :)
It is true that one of the drivers for Anni was cosmetic (or "finish" - I only have to lift my head and talk PT to be told every turntable before then was a bag of bones with a 5 minute shelf life, when that manifestly is an exaggeration (untrue). Quality had not been a strength. Anni was about moving away from "kitchen table" production standards. The price was hiked enough to ensure that was viable.:cool:
Another driver was to make a Churchillian V sign to AC motors and a certain journalist. :eek:
It is true that the main "audio" features were
Motor on sub-chassis
Return to DC motors
Improved motor quality (noise)
Improved sub-chassis rigidity (damping as a by-product)
Improved motor control electronics and supply regulation
Armboard construction
(pretty much in that order)
It is true that when I went to Arthur and waved the Vinyl Engine PT TOO mod thread at him, and said "this looks pretty easy, should I brace my plinth like that and spray my sub-chassis" I got the famous Khoubesserian "Oh please" look :mental:. And that started a discussion about which, if any of the mods in that article were worthwhile, which in turn led to a "how was Anni designed and why" discussion, which has led to this rather slow thread. (Nb - that PT TOO is not a PT TOO - but a converted PT1. It is nigh on impossible to get the top-plate off a PT TOO)
It is true that a Pink Triangle was perceived as "flimsy" because of its low mass - critical to the revised design concept that took it away from "me too" Aristons like the LP12. And so it is true that adding mass helped perceived quality (and gave us a chuckle)
It is also true that whilst I challenge, and refer back, and cross reference, I rely on AK for the science, and he sometimes has a twinkle in his eye. Over the years my bullshit filter has evolved considerably, and is now approaching my excellent email spam-filter at about 98%. But not 100%.
It is also true that Arthur quiet often says to me "that's between us - not for the forum" and I have to try to respect that, even if I consider the "secrets" are not really that secret. So I try to share, and at the same time try to respect his wishes.
So - mostly true! ;)
:cool:
As for "more solid base for the now completely sprung turntable" - how does that work? The sub-chassis is more free because it isn't yanked round the throat by the belt, but otherwise the floating sub-chassis is pretty much the same, and the whole point of floating is that you isolate the "business end" from the environment with springs, rather than relying on plinth mass and damping to "filter" or "isolate". When the motor was on the plinth, then the plinth acted as an energy sink for that. With the motor on the sub-chassis why would you need plinth mass? :scratch:
tim_bissell
05-02-2016, 20:36
Is that really true? Nothing in the higher mass of the Anni was to help give a more solid base for the now completely sprung turntable, it was purely for aesthetics?
I'm asking as that would mean that people making copies of the anni by replicating the plinth would be wasting their time and it would work just as well on a normal, lightweight PT plinth.
Noooo.... as one of those people I can tell you (as Richard alludes to above) the main purpose of the MDF stuffed in the plinth is to provide a sturdy rigid support for the short, rigid (in my case carbon-fibre) suspension spring mounts. The old T-bar suspension mount runs through space where the subchassis-mounted motor sits, hence the need for the change
It also provides solid mounting for adjustable feet, and the all-important circular spirit level for levelling the plinth (none of which has much effect on the sound quality, I'll grant you)
-- Tim
Oldpinkman
15-04-2016, 17:20
Well - another lunch with Arthur in Newhaven. He wanted to go through his lecture (presentation) he is giving at Munich next month. So I figured a perfect opportunity to ponce some proper packing off him for taking the dear old PT all the way to the South of France.
And knock me down with a feather - old grumpy, who was actually very chirpy, says "are we going to do this pimping on it before you go or not?"
Turns out, after a beer or two, we are.
So the precious PT has been left at the pimpers, and it will be a completely reborn turntable going in the packing box.
I snapped a couple of Funky items when I was down there. Anybody care to guess what they are. One of them Cagey should get straight away - so be a gentleman Kevin and let the others have a go. The other, I would be surprised if anyone gets, but I'll give you a massive clue. It is absolutely fundamentally relevant to the subject of this thread. In every respect
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/20160415_153554%20Medium_zpshh8varea.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/20160415_153554%20Medium_zpshh8varea.jpg.html)
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/20160415_180535%20Medium_zps3watm5fx.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/20160415_180535%20Medium_zps3watm5fx.jpg.html)
I would offer a prize, but I can't imagine anybody wants a DeAgostini record cleaning kit... :cool:
Neither of them look like the LSD and FXRIII I was hoping you would get for me. :eyebrows:
Firebottle
15-04-2016, 18:31
The first one is a spaghetti portion measurer, I claim my prize (a Jenlain will do).
:)
I thought it looked like a bottle opener?
looks like one of those dods of metal they fit on rega's ... the second just looks like a dod of metal :eyebrows: looks like something runs over it regularly too judging by the scratches; or is that bad finishing?
Oldpinkman
15-04-2016, 19:21
Thanks for playing the game boys. No problem with a bottle of Jenlain, or a bottle of Limoux as the prize - collect from Granes.
The 2nd one - which I have to admit has not photographed well -close up is Cagey's. Unfortunately I had just posted the Technics cartridge to him this morning,assuming Arthur was sulking and too busy to meet today, so if you are not frantic for it, I'll bring it out when I come to France. Its an 18gm brass headshell weight for FX arms. Since it mounts at the cartridge bolts, it is to the nearest half-brick, pure effective mass, and takes the total effective mass of an FXR to about 27gm. Guess what we were using with the Denon cartridge Marco.
The first is pure unadulterated genius for an ageing Pink Triangle groupie trying to rediscover Anniversary from first principles. It is a mount for the premotec motor which fits on the new spin bearing - thus achieving mounting of the motor on the suspended sub-chassis (instead of the plinth, which lets the motor "tug" the platter) - but avoiding the need to modify the suspension mount rails. Combined with a new top-plate and vector pulleys it is going to make a top-notch custom turntable. The "K Drive" motor and electronics , being essential for the mount on the sub-chassis due to their complete lack of vibration.
Not going to mess with strata platter and the consequential suspension mods at this stage, but yours-truly had an inspired idea for a "not an anniversary" sub-chassis mod. Which although it was my bloody idea, has had a "D notice" slapped on it.
Hopefully it will be ready to bring out soon Kevin
:)
I would be curious to see any evidence that the vibration entering the chassis, platter or mat really is being dispersed as heat (to any significant degree - I.e. The primary method of dispersion).
Audio Advent
16-04-2016, 18:13
As for "more solid base for the now completely sprung turntable" - how does that work? The sub-chassis is more free because it isn't yanked round the throat by the belt, but otherwise the floating sub-chassis is pretty much the same, and the whole point of floating is that you isolate the "business end" from the environment with springs, rather than relying on plinth mass and damping to "filter" or "isolate". When the motor was on the plinth, then the plinth acted as an energy sink for that. With the motor on the sub-chassis why would you need plinth mass? :scratch:
The self-contained sub-chassis of an Anni is a self-contained, unsprung turntable. It would be the same in priciple as a Techy hung from springs, or sitting on sprung feet (I'm not saying something hung from springs is the same as sitting on springs). So from that point the Anni's plinth effectively becomes the "stand" on which the self-contained turntable, suspended by springs, sits.
Therefore the heavier base of the Anni is akin to sitting a turntable on a heavier stand as opposed to the situation if it used the original light plinth/stand. Now, because the Anni will itself be sitting on a stand, it becomes a stand on a stand ( a bit like Mana stand layers). The manufacturer gets to control the first interface between the turntable and the outside world.
It's a mental distinction between what constitutes the "turntable" part of an item sold as a turntable. There are massive turntables sold as a conceptual single item, yet those designs are really all the individual components of a turntable being placed on an external stand to the same design. The Anni is like that - comes with it's own wooden MDF stand in which the turntable itself hangs inside.
In some ways one may as well get rid of the Anni's plinth altogether and instead use a very solid floor stand from which the original springs hang. Not very marketable though I guess.. something for the DIYer.
Oldpinkman
17-04-2016, 09:22
I would be curious to see any evidence that the vibration entering the chassis, platter or mat really is being dispersed as heat (to any significant degree - I.e. The primary method of dispersion).
I assume this is a reference back to the Achromat infomercial stuff. I will enquire of the old boy, since I this is a part of his Munich presentation. I am not the physicist but I think this misses the point. The issue is not what form of energy conversion disperses the energy. The key is that the energy does not reflect back to the stylus. And the key to that is an impedance match with vinyl for the record support - making a thicker record. And then doing something with it (achromat. tiny bubbles, whose walls bend and flex). If it doesn't reflect back, it travels until it changes into another form (it seems unlikely we have an infinite perfect transmission eternally of kinetic energy). In practice, the form it is most likely to change into, due to friction, is heat.
To quote from Arthur's notes
"Now, think of sonar: The record is only 2mm thick.
The stylus sends pressure waves into the record that reach the bottom very quickly and if the support is not sympathetic? the pressure wave bounces back to again be sensed by the stylus…and we have an echo.
Only, the 2mm means that we do not perceive it as a separate, repeating sound but instead the music is muddled.
Once this happens and distorts the music it is there forever and we can never get rid of it.
We want the energy to keep travelling away and never bounce back.
One-way is for our records to be infinitely thick…Not only is that impractical ..."
I assume this is a reference back to the Achromat infomercial stuff. I will enquire of the old boy, since I this is a part of his Munich presentation. I am not the physicist but I think this misses the point. The issue is not what form of energy conversion disperses the energy. The key is that the energy does not reflect back to the stylus. And the key to that is an impedance match with vinyl for the record support - making a thicker record. And then doing something with it (achromat. tiny bubbles, whose walls bend and flex). If it doesn't reflect back, it travels until it changes into another form (it seems unlikely we have an infinite perfect transmission eternally of kinetic energy). In practice, the form it is most likely to change into, due to friction, is heat.
I think you immediately make a faulty leap of logic there which derails the train; primarily that friction is generated. If one strums an acoustic guitar the strings vibrate and pass that vibration on to the body of the instrument. The vibration does dissipate but it is not primarily converted into heat - some conversion to heat will be taking place but it is extremely tiny relative to the whole.
The impedance match of a record to a mat is another theory which seems logical on the surface but, I believe, less so when looked at closely. There are a number of 'real world' problems. Firstly, a record is a physically separate element to the platter no matter what is then done to it, therefore there will not be a perfect impedance match even if placed on a piece of identical material. Clamping the two together will improve the transmission but, as we know, evenly clamping a record is very difficult to do without a vacuum platter (even then not easy to do). Central (and peripheral) clamps introduce stresses into the vinyl and these are likely to be at least as influential as impedance matching to the mat (IMO). Then let us consider the reality of a record in terms of a physical structure. Firstly it is not a flat material, it is grooved, even at the ideal only a small proportion of the record will ever make contact with a hard surface, the apex of the grooves, or the land between said grooves. Secondly, the reality is that records are not entirely flat, often they are mildly undulating or/and concave/convex. If you place an undulating record unclaimed on a flat hard mat it will only make contact where the raised elements of the record are, this is even more true of a concave or convex record where it will only make contact at the centre or outer edge - in all three cases the impedance match is primarily that of air with a random percentage element of whatever material is used for the mat. Even assuming that the mat is an ideal impedance match, and is mechanically matched to the surface of the record, it is a leap of logic that vibration is channeled away from the record, instead I suggest it is far more likely that the record simply gains mass, no 'one way' path for vibration is created. Conversion of energy from one form to another is notoriously inefficient.
Oldpinkman
17-04-2016, 11:22
I think you immediately make a faulty leap of logic there which derails the train; primarily that friction is generated. If one strums an acoustic guitar the strings vibrate and pass that vibration on to the body of the instrument. The vibration does dissipate but it is not primarily converted into heat - some conversion to heat will be taking place but it is extremely tiny relative to the whole.
.
Well its not really me leaping, its Arthur, and its pretty old stuff really. He may or may not know what he's talking about, but he is the one invited to present his ideas at the Munich HiFi show - maybe you should pop over and heckle. It's a bit like the "Green glue" I used to soundproof my music studio. Green glue is a sort of mastic which bonds 2 sheets of plasterboard, and "sound proofs by turning the energy into heat".
It certainly sound proofs effectively. The sound from the studio using it is attenuated considerably (I think the measurement claims are 10db, but as a mere punter listening "lots" will do). Attenuates the sound means "absorbs it". "stops it getting through". That means the energy waves which were being transmitted in a fairly uninterrupted way through the wall to move the air on the other side of the wall, now "lose" some (more) of that energy and move the air on the outside of the wall less.
Where does that energy that has been lost go? It didn't "go" (law of conservation of energy) so it changed. Heat is the likely form it changed into - but I'm open to offers on alternatives. Heat is the (not unreasonable) claim of the manufacturer.
If the effect is less noise on the outside of the wall, the energy wasn't lost, but converted, and the likely conversion is to heat, then (as the manufacturer of green glue also claims) friction is likely to be the cause of that conversion to heat.
But never mind the bollocks, (as the Sex Pistols so wisely said), for my enjoyment, Green Glue shut Harry's bass drum up, and Arthur's designs have made my HiFi sound lovely. With a bit of luck, the mounting of the motor on the sub-chassis, and other wee tweaks, are about to make it sound even lovelier
:cool:
where does that energy that has been lost go? It didn't "go" (law of conservation of energy) so it changed. Heat is the likely form it changed into - but I'm open to offers on alternatives. Heat is the (not unreasonable) claim of the manufacturer.
The energy of the agitated air molecules is transferred into the plasterboard and moves that around a little instead?
I suggest it is far more likely that the record simply gains mass, no 'one way' path for vibration is created. Conversion of energy from one form to another is notoriously inefficient.
So if I keep playing the same record, it will eventually get heavier?
Conversion of energy may be inefficient, but don't forget that with vinyl replay we are talking about minuscule amounts of energy. Inefficient conversion to heat could be one way of getting rid of the excess energy, but that excess will be very small as well if the TT is in good condition.
No, obviously not - how have you arrived at that leap of logic? The mass I am referring to is the record (supposed to be the same impedance) mat (I thought that was reasonably obvious).
The conversion of energy is inefficient in a percentage sense, just because the level is low doesn't make it more efficient or more relevant. Not sure what you mean by a turntable being in good condition in this context or what relevance it has - the material either posses these properties or it does not. Try beating an Achromat vigorously for a few hours and see how much the temperature rises.
where does that energy that has been lost go? It didn't "go" (law of conservation of energy) so it changed. Heat is the likely form it changed into - but I'm open to offers on alternatives. Heat is the (not unreasonable) claim of the manufacturer.
The body of the guitar vibrates, it energises the air, it mechanically dissipates the vibration - very little is converted into heat.
Well its not really me leaping, its Arthur, and its pretty old stuff really. He may or may not know what he's talking about, but he is the one invited to present his ideas at the Munich HiFi show - maybe you should pop over and heckle. It's a bit like the "Green glue" I used to soundproof my music studio. Green glue is a sort of mastic which bonds 2 sheets of plasterboard, and "sound proofs by turning the energy into heat".
It certainly sound proofs effectively. The sound from the studio using it is attenuated considerably (I think the measurement claims are 10db, but as a mere punter listening "lots" will do). Attenuates the sound means "absorbs it". "stops it getting through". That means the energy waves which were being transmitted in a fairly uninterrupted way through the wall to move the air on the other side of the wall, now "lose" some (more) of that energy and move the air on the outside of the wall less.
Where does that energy that has been lost go? It didn't "go" (law of conservation of energy) so it changed. Heat is the likely form it changed into - but I'm open to offers on alternatives. Heat is the (not unreasonable) claim of the manufacturer.
If the effect is less noise on the outside of the wall, the energy wasn't lost, but converted, and the likely conversion is to heat, then (as the manufacturer of green glue also claims) friction is likely to be the cause of that conversion to heat.
But never mind the bollocks, (as the Sex Pistols so wisely said), for my enjoyment, Green Glue shut Harry's bass drum up, and Arthur's designs have made my HiFi sound lovely. With a bit of luck, the mounting of the motor on the sub-chassis, and other wee tweaks, are about to make it sound even lovelier
:cool:
It may be 'old stuff' but that doesn't stop you repeating it in your advertorial and it doesn't make it true either. I've been to Munich and I've chatted to Arthur, very nice chap indeed - none of that means that this hypothesis (because that's what it is) is accurate and nor does being asked to present ones ideas (hypothesise).
I'm not heckling as this isn't your 'show', I'm suggesting that what you are putting forward (promoting) as fact is incorrect and I'm explaining why I think that is the case - that's called debate, not heckling. If you don't understand what you are writing or are unable to defend it then I suggest you should not be posting it and certainly not be presenting it as fact. If you re-read what I wrote I made it quite clear that some conversion to heat will be taking place but that the level at which this takes place is irrelevant within the greater context. If you have access to any evidence to contradict this I am happy to hear it.
All your comments regarding 'green glue' are entirely irrelevant as support to your previous claims, you may as well just point out that rubbing together two bits of wood produces heat - so what! The mechanism whereby a viscoelastic layer can dissipate vibration by conversion to heat is a well documented fact (supported by measurement) and is why constrained layer damping works - I'm not denying any of that and have used these principles myself. However, that is entirely different to claiming that a chassis or mat therefore necessarily works in the same way. Friction obviously exists and friction obviously produces heat, the mechanical energy imparted to produce the friction is converted to heat (and sound as you can hear it) but none of that means that this is the mechanism at work here. If you drop a brick on the floor it will produce a shock wave that is measurable - it's not likely to be considered as sufficient to warrant consideration by those looking for evidence of imminent earthquake though.
Sorry, but if you don't want to have your opinions questioned, or defend those opinions, a public forum is probably not the best place to post them.
(I've got a Pink Triangle deck and it sounds very good)
No, obviously not - how have you arrived at that leap of logic? The mass I am referring to is the record (supposed to be the same impedance) mat (I thought that was reasonably obvious).
It's not what you wrote.
How can anything in the playback chain "gain mass"?
Hypothesis are very well, but difficult to prove in theory when you are talking about such low levels.
Oldpinkman
17-04-2016, 17:08
The body of the guitar vibrates, it energises the air, it mechanically dissipates the vibration - very little is converted into heat.
It doesn't mechanically dissipate the vibration. Energy doesn' disipate - (gremlins on the keyboard are driving me nuts - I may leave you to believe what you want to, and am probably typing Greek)
Energy doesn't disipate - basic physics. The vibrating guitar body had kinetic energy which forms pressure waves in the air, which is what we hear
As Cagey pointed out, the "shock wave" energy from the stylus is tiny in terms of conventional units of energy, but HUGE in terms of the delicate environment of music replay. It won't brown your toast, but the energy "absorption" process is converting kinetic energy to heat.
If it converts from one form to another and arrives at at a null then that is 'dissipation', the rest is an attempt at semantics. I don't claim anything that you do not, the primary difference is that you claim to exist in a further realm of existential physics currently unknown to man.
One thing I learnt about 'basic physics' as a child was that it was good for basics and significantly less so for actual adult implementation.
All states, being equal and subject to the forces of time, have a tendency to arrive at a level of chaos/equilibrium.
It's not what you wrote.
How can anything in the playback chain "gain mass"?
Hypothesis are very well, but difficult to prove in theory when you are talking about such low levels.
You gain mass by bolting a record to it! A record is screwed to a record mat, it therefore gains mass. Alternatively it sits on that mass but only by the force of gravity. It still sees the mass but less so..,.: what don't you get and exactly and how does this contribute to the debate?
I'm sorry Cagey but what I wrote is grammatically correct though I appreciate it may no have been in line with the literalist translation you decided to apply.
As I would never intentionally listen to my platter mat, the gaining mass by adding a record is a pretty mute point.
The interface/system is designed around a vinyl disc being there. I am not going to add mass part way through.
The affect of adding a record to a mat is pretty minor on the overall mass of the system.
Audio Advent
17-04-2016, 22:12
As I would never intentionally listen to my platter mat, the gaining mass by adding a record is a pretty mute point.
The interface/system is designed around a vinyl disc being there. I am not going to add mass part way through.
The affect of adding a record to a mat is pretty minor on the overall mass of the system.
This is getting more and more surreal ..
Audio Advent
17-04-2016, 22:22
Anyway, as far as the Acromat is concerned, it's just a piece of Foamex board cut into a circle - make your own from some scrap 5mm foamex, a router and a drill for the centre hole. You can find a way to compress/crush the label area down if you want too. Turns a bit of scrap into a £65 hifi device! You can even get 100 12" 5mm foamex circles made for about £50 online - I enquired.
The "patent" for it is a bit dodgy too, presented as it is as a whole platter/mat system where the platter part is cut and pasted from an expired Pink Triangle patent. Adding something like "then a round bit of foam PVC sits on top of the platter" to an expired patent surely does not make a new patent that either is enforcable nor applicable as a patent for the mat on its own.
I've always been surprised that Funk Firm have been able to run with it for so long without any competition! Certainly I couldn't afford to get make a case for the patent to be voided, tho I can make one for myself in any colour I can find - have a pearlescent green piece ready but work's workshop is on the move so it will have to wait!
Sam, although I appreciate where you're coming from, the above post is rather 'bitchy' and negative towards Funk (a separate company from PT), and not in the spirit in which this discussion was started.
Let's talk about hi-fi, and specifically PT, not patents or the design of the Achromat, which have nothing to do with the thread topic. Cheers! :cool:
Marco.
Audio Advent
19-04-2016, 22:49
I can't see any bitchyness myself . Which bit? Setting out what they're made of helps to work out how they may or may not work as that was the current point of the discussion. People can try out the same idea for themselves, though I'd concede it's much easier to buy a secondhand one and sell it on again for no loss than it would be to make one, but you can at least use whatever colour you choose if you do.
Is it a call for everyone to stop talking about platter mats or stop about the acromat which was brought up? Just so we're clear.
Oldpinkman
09-05-2016, 07:16
Well my project was put back due to a couple of urgent issues including fixing a used deck bought by a wammer with some damage, and so I am front of the queue this week post Munich. (I gather he had the best show ever, and is raring to go.)
We move on the 16th,so it's a bit hectic for me, but I am hoping to pick-up the pimped PT on Thursday. There may be a brief opportunity to try it in my system before packing.
AK has been tinkering again since I was last down there and changed the motor mount bracket to incorporate the vector pulleys. Call me an old cynic but I have a fear my personalised pimp may cease to be unique. Tant pis as long as it performs as hoped for in my system.
Watch this space on Thursday (fingers crossed)
Mark, this arrangement addresses the issues you mentioned on another thread about suspension tug. It relies on a really really quiet motor.
I look forward to hearing this when you are down in France. :cool:
i wonder if he will pimp my lp12?
Oldpinkman
09-05-2016, 20:43
i wonder if he will pimp my lp12? ;)
For a glass of cider and a slice of cake? You never know
Oldpinkman
10-05-2016, 07:23
The best laid plans...
It's going to be a cliff-edge week and I suspect turntables may not feature in it. Arguments about how to stack a dishwasher however will be prominent it would appear :(
Oldpinkman
10-05-2016, 10:10
Just bought myself a HiFi racks podium for delivery to the new house. What a palaver that was with an english card and a French address. 4-6 weeks delivery - not sure whether the TT is going to get unpacked for a while Kevin :cool:
Firebottle
10-05-2016, 12:23
Hopefully there will be some better weather by then, it would be nice to take a trip 'darn sarf' ....might get to see you and hear the '63s.
:)
I'd like to see and hear the 63's as well.
We will have to try and persuade Richard to hold a house warming bake off (when he has settled in).
Oldpinkman
10-05-2016, 16:04
You would both be most welcome. We have a couple of spare bedrooms once we are installed - since whilst its just about feasible as a day trip for Kevin, its a long haul for Alan. In the short term I am using one as an office, and the other will be a store room short term, but hopefully we will be fully functional soon. I have at least one dustcover on an ESL63 to repair properly, and if that goes well, I might do the other 3 just to have them all shiny and new. But not next week. Bring the Firebottle amps down to listen against Pip and the AHB2. And any other toys of interest. I have very high hopes for the listening room. It looks awful, and even Sue was talking about the need for carpets, curtains and furnishings - but it sounds really good. I don't mean with a HiFi in - I haven't got one there yet. Just walking around and talking.
The secret, I think, is that all those bare reflective surfaces have about a foot of dense polystyrene directly over/under/behind them for insulation. The place is incredibly insulated - you can heat it in winter by breathing.
We'll see :cool:
Oldpinkman
13-05-2016, 17:27
Managed to call in to see Arthur today, and a nice pub in Lewes
Very upbeat about Munich and new projects.
The pimping
:popcorn:
The lorry leaves monday :cool:
Oldpinkman
13-05-2016, 19:59
Is it not ready?
How did you guess? He did at least have the decency to look sheepish. And I negotiated a new white Achromat as part of the compensation - which will help towards the authentic original look
I am going to build my own flying lead (he has given me a plug) and it should be done tomorrow...
The problem, well the excuse was cutting the top-plate which is a bit of a git, and if he screws up not easy to rectify. He has done the mount, motor, vector pulleys, electrics etc - it just needs holes in the top plate. Since I plan to replace the top-plate with a mirror one a la Anni, then he is going to do it in acrylic instead of drill my original metal, and that is bucket loads easier
Tomorrow
I believe the Spanish word for that is manana
:cool:
pcourtney
05-06-2016, 01:40
delete
Oldpinkman
29-06-2016, 20:05
It's a Pink Triangle Jim,
but not as we know it.
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/20160629_151125_zpsqawcraop.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/20160629_151125_zpsqawcraop.jpg.html)
More details please :)
Andre, if you don't have anything of value to add then please don't!
Indeed. I've just removed a load of trolling and/or abusive posts on this thread, which are completely against our ethos.
Andre, that's enough. Stop winding folk up, and instead stay away from threads that you find annoying or boring. Remember what we discussed when you were allowed back last time. I don't have infinite patience.
Richard, between this and your recent behaviour elsewhere on the forum (such as you've had PMs about) you a teetering on the edge of a permanent ban. ONE MORE disgraceful outburst like that, no matter the provocation, and you will be gone for good! There will be no further warnings.
Needless to say, any 'back chat' from either of you on this matter will be removed, so if you value your membership here, understand and accept what I've said and move on.
Marco.
Virtual-Symmetry
29-06-2016, 21:53
Ok boss
Maybe this thread would be better merged in with the 'Historic day for Great Britain' thread!
:D
Oldpinkman
30-06-2016, 05:13
Indeed. I've just removed a load of trolling and/or abusive posts on this thread, which are completely against our ethos.
Andre, that's enough. Stop winding folk up, and instead stay away from threads that you find annoying or boring. Remember what we discussed when you were allowed back last time. I don't have infinite patience.
Richard, between this and your recent behaviour elsewhere on the forum (such as you've had PMs about) you a teetering on the edge of a permanent ban. ONE MORE disgraceful outburst like that, no matter the provocation, and you will be gone for good! There will be no further warnings.
Needless to say, any 'back chat' from either of you on this matter will be removed, so if you value your membership here, understand and accept what I've said and move on.
Marco.
That's fine Marco, thanks. I'll leave you in peace. I feel thoroughly unwelcome in a hostile environment and have nothing further to contribute
That's fine Marco, thanks. I'll leave you in peace. I feel thoroughly unwelcome in a hostile environment and have nothing further to contribute
I'm afraid that's all in your head. More realistically, it's some of your outrageous responses to others and general arrogant attitude that are causing the "hostile environment", with (now deleted) insults such as: "Fuck off sad loser and crap on someone else's thread for a change", which are completely OTT and violate our ethos.
By rights, you should've been banned instantly for making those remarks, never mind anything else.
How you can consider that behaviour as justified, and not wish to immediately apologise for it, shows exactly what you're about. Yes, the thread was "crapped on", but the correct course of action in such circumstances is to REPORT the post to the mods, and let them deal with it (or me), not attack the offender and respond with invective! :doh:
You also had the audacity recently to tell me how I should've reacted to the murder of Jo Cox, citing my own natural response as being 'inappropriate', arrogantly telling me instead what I should've done, including numerous other instances of unacceptable behaviour towards others, which up until now, I've let slide.
However, enough is enough. You've been given umpteen chances here to behave, past and present, and have been banned before for failing to do so.
Therefore, if you're going to flounce off the forum in a huff, that's fair enough, and your choice, but don't be under any ridiculous illusions that you've somehow been 'hard done to', which is far from the case! Instead, inhale some reality.
Marco.
Plas Esgair
12-01-2020, 10:59
A strange thread this but enlightening for me as I now understand one of my own turntables, that I inherited from my father, a bit more...
"..............he has plans to drop the Vector turntable and complete the range with a relaunch PT and a very very special new Anniversary, complete with K Drive, Vector, Spin and a new suspension (and a very snazzy mirror top-plate). ............"
My father bought a Pink Triangle Anniversary from new (SME V and Kiseki Purpleheart Sapphire fitted when delivered). I knew he was in contact with Arthur and that he had sent the PTA to the Funk Firm for a service and that it had been upgraded (this would be prior to 2009) but only now do I understand the extent it was changed from its original form.
Having now looked at pictures online of original PTAs and looked at my PTA it would appear that it was rebuilt to this "New Anniversary" spec mentioned above. So as I said, I knew it had been upgraded but only now do I realise the extent of the modifications made!
RobbieGong
12-01-2020, 13:42
A strange thread this but enlightening for me as I now understand one of my own turntables, that I inherited from my father, a bit more...
"..............he has plans to drop the Vector turntable and complete the range with a relaunch PT and a very very special new Anniversary, complete with K Drive, Vector, Spin and a new suspension (and a very snazzy mirror top-plate). ............"
My father bought a Pink Triangle Anniversary from new (SME V and Kiseki Purpleheart Sapphire fitted when delivered). I knew he was in contact with Arthur and that he had sent the PTA to the Funk Firm for a service and that it had been upgraded (this would be prior to 2009) but only now do I understand the extent it was changed from its original form.
Having now looked at pictures online of original PTAs and looked at my PTA it would appear that it was rebuilt to this "New Anniversary" spec mentioned above. So as I said, I knew it had been upgraded but only now do I realise the extent of the modifications made!
Hi Robin,
Thanks for the share - pics are always welcome too..... :)
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