View Full Version : Interesting video comparing an SL-1210 with the new Pioneer PLX-1000
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In the video, you get to see the innards of the Pioneer, and how well it's been designed/constructed, compared with the Technics.
Make sure you watch the video right to the end, in order to see (hear) a major difference between both T/Ts! :eek:
Marco.
Audio Al
17-02-2015, 06:18
Looks like it was designed by accountants = A crap TT
Wont be on my shopping list ;)
Gordon Steadman
17-02-2015, 08:59
I can see it has problems for a DJ and feedback is always a bad idea but........how did it sound?? I was surprised he didn't listen to it.
Is it really true that this is aimed at DJs?? I reckon it's more likely that it is aimed at the hi-fi people who have formed a pretty wide ranging club.
I heard a Technics years ago and wasn't impressed but then I had to escape the room a bit quickly as I couldn't stand the pressure levels.
Spectral Morn
17-02-2015, 11:01
Epic fail then re being suitable for the DJ arena:doh:
Regards Neil
The Pioneer has big shoes to fill but keep in mind it is v1.0. The feedback is an issue for sure but notice how it dropped away whenever he touched the deck, I'm sure it can be fixed. Single sided PCB's aren't an issue and I doubt for home use the slider will be an issue. The Optical feedback should be more precise than the magnetic version of the Technics and I wouldn't worry about reliability of it, my KD550 (still going strong) uses optical feedback and its well over 20 years old ;)
That's 'progress' for ya!
Meanwhile back in techy land mine has the new wooden armboard, an at1005mkii fitted, the mg-10 headshell is due any day but for now I've fitted an at440mla to an old sumiko. The PSU, bearing and external reg arrived today. It's singing nicely now but will be mostly done by the weekend. Very exciting...
I've also ordered a dedicated shelf for it. Will get some pics up in a few days!
Looking forward to seeing that, Rich! :thumbsup:
Marco.
Returning to the video, for me any Technics SL-1200/1210 clone that doesn't reject the effects of feedback, as well as the Technics, and so fundamentally isn't as well-isolated, is consequently inferior, and thus fails at acting as a viable predecessor - end of!
:exactly:
The Pioneer shows some promise in certain areas, but obviously isn't the finished article. The interesting thing to find out would be whether some of the better upgrades for the Technics (Mike New bearing, platter, and the various quality off-board PSUs, available from different vendors) would work, or could be made to work, on the Pioneer?
Marco.
From what I could conclude from the video, I doubt any of the current upgrade bearings would fit.
Apparently it gets a good write up in this months Stereophile, the motor is alleged to have twice the torque of the Technics…
Hi Neal,
More torque is not necessarily a good thing. It all depends on how that extra torque is 'managed'. From an audiophile point of view, sometimes less torque is better!
The Stereophile review is interesting. Although I pay little attention these days to what magazines say, preferring instead to trust my own ears and experience with kit, it's good that any kind of direct-drive turntable, particularly so a cost-effective one like the Pioneer, is getting major exposure in the specialist audio press.
Regardless of anything else, that can't be a bad thing :)
Marco.
WOStantonCS100
23-02-2015, 23:10
:lol: Epic failure. But, this happens every time a 1200 knock off comes down the line. Before it hits the market, we're nailed with a ton of hype about how it's just like the 1200 but better, essentially a re-badged 1200 or how it'll bury the 1200. To date, including the PLX-1000, it has never happened, not once. Maybe next time, those of us who know the 1200 well and have seen enough knock offs (because they sure aren't clones) will be cut a little slack when we recommend extreme caution. Of course, not bloody likely. :lol:
Where’ve ya been, Biff? You’ve been missed!
Marco.
Looking forward to seeing that, Rich! :thumbsup:
Marco.
If there should be a NEBO 6 it will be there!
Didn't get round to doing the bearing and psu but with a fair wind this weekend it will be done!
WOStantonCS100
24-02-2015, 00:22
Where’ve ya been, Biff? You’ve been missed!
Marco.
Well, thanks. It's a crazy world, Marco. I barely made it out alive. "Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated." :lol:
Lol… Good to hear, mate, as we always enjoy your contributions :)
Marco.
The Pioneer has big shoes to fill but keep in mind it is v1.0. The feedback is an issue for sure but notice how it dropped away whenever he touched the deck, I'm sure it can be fixed. Single sided PCB's aren't an issue and I doubt for home use the slider will be an issue. The Optical feedback should be more precise than the magnetic version of the Technics and I wouldn't worry about reliability of it, my KD550 (still going strong) uses optical feedback and its well over 20 years old ;)
There's many ways control the speed of a motor. The Pioneer is reading the platter speed with an optical sensor and updating the platter speed a several times per revolution. Wow and flutter has been measured on these Hanpin tables on other forums and is in the .1% range.
The Technics tables (as well as many other vintage tables) use a linear generator to regulate speed and is basically always operating at the correct speed since corrections are made immediately. On an SP10 Mk3 that uses a balanced platter and tighter tolerances than the SL-1200, wow and flutter is a measly 0.015%. This was all achieved with the tooling available 35 years ago. We could do much better today.
I heard one of these yesterday and I was impressed. I guess Pioneer fixed the hum issues in the video (poor quality RCA jacks) and the anti-skate problem with the arm on the newest revision of the table. It sounds really nice out of the box without all the tweaks a SL-1200 needs. It has a really fun musical and forward presentation with great drive.
I thought the arm felt a little cheap compared to the Techy arm and it could really use a Jelco. It did track and sound nice though, so maybe feel isn't everything. The headshell that comes with it is super cheap. Replacing the arm on the Pioneer would be a pain and involve taking most of the table apart. The stock rubber mat would also need to be replaced as it's only 3mm tall and impossible to set VTA correctly on low profile cartridges like the Denons, even with a spacer in the headshell.
Isolation was pretty decent, I tapped all over the top of the table with no problems. When I tapped on the shelf below it, a little got though, so it could use some Isonoes. If this table get really popular maybe they'll make a set that fits it.
I think it's a lot of table for $700 (£460) street price it has in the US. It can easily hang with tables 2x-3x that price and it's issues are minor and most other $700 tables share the same issues.
Thanks for that, Dave. Interesting to know that the Pioneer is pretty decent after all :)
Marco.
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