View Full Version : AoS ‘Scottish Mafia’ - wot’s it gonna be tomorrow……?
… ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ - and why? :)
Marco.
twickers
17-09-2014, 17:46
Why, what's happening tomorrow? :scratch:
Audio Al
17-09-2014, 17:51
Why, what's happening tomorrow? :scratch:
Rugby I think
brian2957
17-09-2014, 18:03
The Scottish people have no confidence in their own abilities . It's time we faced up to our responsibilities to ourselves and our children and their future . There's a lot of talent in this country just waiting to be given a chance . So it's a 'yes' from me and let's hope others can find the gumption to carry this through .
I have the utmost respect for our English brothers and sisters BTW , I lived there for nearly 3 years , but it's time Scotland took over control of its own affairs.
Hear, hear! :clap:
Did my little ‘pep talk’ influence you then, when I was up? ;)
Remember, short term pain, long term gain!
Wish I could still vote….. This supposed ‘union’ is a joke, as its controlled from Westminster, creating London-centric policies that have next to no relevance for Scottish people. If it’s a ‘Yes’ then I can’t wait to see them dump the nuclear subs from Faslane in Cameron’s lap - and let the chinless wonders ‘darn sarf' deal with it! :D
Marco.
Ali Tait
17-09-2014, 18:31
It's a yes from me too!
brian2957
17-09-2014, 18:34
I did enjoy the chat that day Marco , however I think deep down it was always gonny be a yes vote. I don't think this is about getting 'revenge ' or getting 'one over ' on anyone . I just have a gut feeling that it's our 'time '.
archiesdad
17-09-2014, 18:35
Sorry guys, I'm definitely NO.
brian2957
17-09-2014, 18:38
We're all entitled to our opinion on this Martin and all opinions are valid . As long as it remains civilised we can be proud of ourselves . That's all that really matters in the end innit :lol:
Alex Salmond is singularly not qualified to take Scotland into statehood, his entire campaign has been based on emotive soundbites playing to Scottish aspirations rather than address the practical difficulties of such a move. Today Spain announced that it would veto any attempt by an independent Scotland to join the EU and big business has spoken with one voice on the issue, and then there is the matter of which currency. It won't be pound sterling, that much is certain. To ignore these alarm bells would be foolish in the extreme, and then there's the sectarian issue. This aspect of Scottish culture has been ignored by both sides during the campaign and they do so at their peril. This is a powderkeg waiting for a spark and this referendum may well be it, regardless of the result tomorrow.
walpurgis
17-09-2014, 18:44
I'm not Scottish, but I hope the Scots make the right choice, whatever that may be. Personally I'd find it a bit sad if Scotland was no longer united with England, but I can't say quite why. It's a big decision and I have a feeling that many may get cold feet at the last knockings and fall on the No side. We'll see.
If its Yes, I wonder if loads of foreign migrant workers will be heading south? Just a thought.
Anyway. Good luck!
Will it be whisky all round or a smoked Salmond? :D
I did enjoy the chat that day Marco , however I think deep down it was always gonny be a yes vote. I don't think this is about getting 'revenge ' or getting 'one over ' on anyone . I just have a gut feeling that it's our 'time '.
I totally agree. However, if it works out, it’ll be nice for you to no longer be ‘Westminster’s bitches’ or guinea pigs for disgracefully unfair policies. Remember the Poll Tax? :eek:
Unfortunately, and I sincerely hope I’m wrong, I think the ‘No’s’ will have it, as when it comes to the crunch, I think some folk making noises now about wanting independence, will bottle it. Hope I’m wrong!!
Marco.
brian2957
17-09-2014, 18:49
Hah ! Love the last line Geoff :D I agree with you in that I think when people are standing in the ballot box with the pencil in their hands it will be a different matter . I believe many will say they are voting yes and put their mark in the ' no ' box.
Sorry guys, I'm definitely NO.
What makes you say that, Martin? Just curious :)
Marco.
archiesdad
17-09-2014, 19:00
I don't think that independence would always be a bad thing, but, it has be on settled terms with all the details worked out before a vote takes place, you wouldn't jump overboard from the ship then ask for a lifebelt/boat. I get the impression that AS expected to be beaten say 60/40% but get his 10 minutes of fame, but now he may win more and more questions are being asked that there are no answers for, ie, income tax/national insurance rates, oap pension rates, passport/driving licence/mot provisions, need I go on without getting thinking too much.
As a total English (Yorkshire) man I hope personally that the Union stays intact but as a Brit I hope the Scottish people get what they want and are happy with it once they've got it. Sadly I doubt if either of these provisos will hold true. It's too close and too important now for either 'side' to be happy and relaxed if the vote doesn't go the way they want - IMHO years and years of bitching and aggro will follow as each side will tend to blame the other for any and all future important events that don't suit them - the genie is now out of the bottle and cannot be put back - that might not be a bad thing long term but not in my life time or that of my children and their children I suspect.
And, IMO, all this sh1t has been dropped around the heads of all Scottish people by the most able (but least honest and that is quite a statement) politician in the whole United Kingdom. IMO AS's main aim is a place in history as a new William Wallace - it is mainly an ego trip for him that will bring much unhappiness to the country and people he proclaims to be championing.
I am not saying his 'case' for independence does not have merit, of course it does, but I doubt that is his real underlying motivation.
Good luck to all, whichever way it goes, and I hope that we (you and the rest of us) can all accept the result without rancour, on Friday morning.
Sadly,
Dave.
brian2957
17-09-2014, 19:26
Dave your inbox is full . I have sent an email to you instead. Sorry for the thread drift guys .
I believe the vote has swung to the Yes side now; the momentum has been going that way for a while now. In a way, the No side kinda shot themselves in the foot by their dirty tricks and in many cases outright lies. "If Scotland is so hopeless and worthless, the why do England want it", is the question I hear every day now....It is a good one too.
As said above, when many go into the booth, a nagging doubt will get them and a short hesitation followed by a no. Some will go the other way I guess too, so It will be very close; possibly too close to get a decision...
I can say this, 90% of people I have met are going for yes, in public anyways.
So how are you voting, Grant? :)
Marco.
StanleyB
17-09-2014, 19:44
If Scotland votes for YES, would Scottish members of AoS have to reapply for membership of the board?
The Black Adder
17-09-2014, 19:44
Isn't there a raving 'maybe' party?
Maybe.....think its the BNP
The Black Adder
17-09-2014, 19:47
Maybe.....think its the BNP
lol.. leave them well alone then in that case...
brian2957
17-09-2014, 19:48
Yup , I think it's going to be close . There's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of nervous Scots out there tonight and I'm one of them . Wouldn't it be great if we had a time machine and access to the future :) Life's full of uncertainties I suppose and sometimes we've just got to go with our gut feeling . Whichever way it goes I hope we all ( Scotland , England , Ireland and Wales ) prosper :)
If it is a tie, give or take, then maybe Westminster will start treating Scotland and Wales as Countries and not their poor, backward cousins that they just pay lip service to when they want something and screw us the rest of the time. Would probably be the best happy medium.
Oi, what are you voting then, or are you shy? ;)
Marco.
As King Kenny used to say. Maybes aye, maybes naw :scratch: Maybe;)
I care not whether they vote for or against, only that they vote... And in droves.
Voter apathy is at the root of everything wrong with politics in this country.
May the rest of the country take a lesson from this, whatever you decide.
walpurgis
17-09-2014, 21:00
As an Englishman. It would be nice to have an English passport. Not a flippin British one, whatever that stands for these days!
As a party member I second that Rich. Your vote only doesnt count if you dont cast it, and that is the reason our fathers and grandfathers fought two wars, so we have that right.'I was always British first and proudly. Southern Tory policy is back with a vengeance, not just for Scotland but the N of England too.
...and lets face it I would only have a 20 minute train trip to go and kick the cabinet in the nuts if they screw me up :eyebrows:
If it is a tie, give or take, then maybe Westminster will start treating Scotland and Wales as Countries and not their poor, backward cousins that they just pay lip service to when they want something and screw us the rest of the time.
Glad you recognise that as fact. That’s why if the Yes vote wins, Scotland should fly flags with a message to Westminster of……………………………
GET IT RIGHT UP YE! :upyours: :upyours: :upyours:
Marco.
The Barbarian
17-09-2014, 21:18
Scots gonna create their own currency or gonna borrows ours, bit ironik since how they don't want to be in the UK anymore? Better make some quick same with the Navy they gave up 300 years ago.
Just use the pound, but without a gold reserve. It is a better system actually and will work. A country can use whatever currency they wish.
Glad you recognise that as fact. That’s why if the Yes vote wins, Scotland should fly flags with a message to Westminster of……………………………
GET IT RIGHT UP YE! :upyours: :upyours: :upyours:
Marco.
I'm sure if its a yes then these fingers at least, will fly Marco. Dunno if Alec has the flags made. I'll give him a text shall I? :eek:
Defo!!
Watching the programme now on Ch4…. Most interesting. Irvine Welsh is on (having flown in from the USA) and he talks a lot of sense! :)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
17-09-2014, 22:13
The shame is that a very small majority might see this follow through. Frankly a percentage of 70 30 or at the very minimum 60 40 should have been set for it to be valid. A smaller percentage will lead to possible unrest.
Anyway if its a yes then Ulster should claim its colony back :cool: Being serious closer union between Ulster and Scotland makes more historical sense than union with the South or the existing union with the rest of the UK.
Regards Neil
anubisgrau
17-09-2014, 22:38
when montenegro got its independence from the federation with serbia, it was 55% census. while being very similar to scotland in sectarian divisions, montenegrins got it, although tight. no unrest or whatsoever after that (it was in 2006).
there's two important things. one is - no new country in europe is in a worse condition than before. second - it's just a matter of time, votes for independence will only grow.
so for both sides it's better it happens now, not in 15 years or whenever a new chance will occur. unfortunately it seems like it won't.
Spectral Morn
17-09-2014, 22:47
when montenegro got its independence from the federation with serbia, it was 55% census. while being very similar to scotland in sectarian divisions, montenegrins got it, although tight. no unrest or whatsoever after that (it was in 2006).
there's two important things. one is - no new country in europe is in a worse condition than before. second - it's just a matter of time, votes for independence will only grow.
so for both sides it's better it happens now, not in 15 years or whenever a new chance will occur. unfortunately it seems like it won't.
I think it will be a yes, but with a small majority.
Regards Neil
Last snp poll I saw has yes on 51%. BBC( the bastions of truth:snigger: had it the other way round....also heard that the no campaign is wanting to do a number on AS tomorrow morning ..F- ing desperate measures mean to me they are the ones panicking.
anubisgrau
17-09-2014, 22:51
on a long run it would be better for both sides. it's an unstoppable process, once you open the box. it just grows...
The only thing that is inevitable is that after the vote a horde of guessers will say "I knew this would be the result".
The Barbarian
18-09-2014, 03:49
Ive got an idea: why not all the english pull out of AOS see how it copes
;)
Last snp poll I saw has yes on 51%. BBC( the bastions of truth:snigger: had it the other way round....also heard that the no campaign is wanting to do a number on AS tomorrow morning ..
“Do a number”, in what way?
Marco.
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 07:53
Went to vote at 7.00am, there was already a queue waiting. The turn out is going to be huge I reckon, which is a good thing, whatever the result. At least then people will know the majority of people have voted and the result can't be argued with.
The whole concept of Scottish independance is stupid beyond belief but sadly that is the world we are now living in, where nonsense has replaced pragmatic reality. They are letting sixteen year olds vote FFS!
Most of the Scots I have met are all for it. All the English I have met could not give a monkey's either way. Personally I hope they vote Yes - it will be more interesting, it will mean England can never again have a Labour government, and it will be a salutory lesson to those people who think common-sense and pragmatism are unneccasary baggage as long as you can paint your face blue and shout.
brian2957
18-09-2014, 08:04
Yes good point Ali . This has provided a wake up call for Scottish and British politics which has been stagnating over the years with people developing an attitude of apathy . The debates over the last few weeks have been excellent and I agree that I think the turnout will be very high indeed . No matter what the outcome is this can't be a bad thing for British politics.
brian2957
18-09-2014, 08:06
Yes good point Ali . This has provided a wake up call for Scottish and British politics which has been stagnating over the years with people developing an attitude of apathy . The debates over the last few weeks have been excellent and I agree that the turnout will be very high indeed . No matter what the outcome is this can't be a bad thing for British politics.
My son is at Uni in St Andrews and is voting. It seems strange that certain Scots around here can't vote bu my son can...
There are plenty of comments about healing rifts once the result is known but frankly I fear for the consequences. If it's No, the Yes side will be bitter and continue to be very vocal and more extreme. If it's Yes the split & negotiations will be very tough and acrimonious. There are some Scots who really hate the English, in the event of a Yes result I foresee quite a number of English developing deep anti-Scots feelings. Whatever the result it'll be a rough ride.
The whole concept of Scottish independance is stupid beyond belief but sadly that is the world we are now living in, where nonsense has replaced pragmatic reality.
Well, if it’s a ‘Yes’, we shall see how things pan out. Surely you can appreciate, though, why Scottish people resent being governed by some chinless twits in Westminster who not only don’t live in the real world, but have any empathy whatsoever with the feelings of the Scottish electorate, or in creating policies that are relevant to Scottish people? This vote for independence is fundamentally about democracy.
The supposed British ‘union’ is vastly outdated and has always been heavily biased towards English interests, so it’s only natural that if the Scottish people genuinely believe that they can look after their best interests better than some ridiculously out of touch ‘hoorays’ in London, that they should be given the chance to do it.
Incidentally, I’m not anti-English, as those of you who know me will know - far from it - as the vast majority of my friends here in Wales are English. I’m just fed up with Scotland (Wales and Ireland) being ‘kept in their place’ by an outdated political system and governed by arrogant self-serving tits in Westminster, keen only on lining their own pockets, prioritising what’s best for London, and who care not a jot about what happens north of Watford!
If at the end of today, the ‘Yes’ votes win, then Scotland and the Scottish people can at last break free from their shackles and together build a proud, and I believe, (in time) a prosperous and successful nation.
Marco.
MikeMusic
18-09-2014, 08:29
If a Yes then I see it being horribly expensive, billions with all sorts of chancers making a fortune out of it.
Bankers amongst them
The same people we don't like will still be in charge.
Do you trust a politician, Scots or English ?
No
Interested to see Shetlands want to go their own way ..
In life, Mike, change is always difficult, but if the change is genuinely for the right reasons, and the end goal is worthy, then I’d take the pain for the potential gain. You don’t get anywhere in life without sometimes taking risks, and the Scottish people need to grab their chance for independence NOW, while they can.
Like Brian said earlier, NOW is ’their time’, either to sink or swim, so I say let the Scottish people dive in and together make history!
:hifive: :hifive:
Marco.
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 08:57
The whole concept of Scottish independance is stupid beyond belief but sadly that is the world we are now living in, where nonsense has replaced pragmatic reality. They are letting sixteen year olds vote FFS!
Most of the Scots I have met are all for it. All the English I have met could not give a monkey's either way. Personally I hope they vote Yes - it will be more interesting, it will mean England can never again have a Labour government, and it will be a salutory lesson to those people who think common-sense and pragmatism are unneccasary baggage as long as you can paint your face blue and shout.
I couldn't disagree more.
The whole thing is crazy. What are they going to use for money? if they pick an exisitng currency (pound, dollar, Euro) they will have no control over interest rates and therefore no control over their economy. If they start their own currency they have no reserve so it will tank on its first day on the market.
All the banks will move south because they will have no lender of last resort in an independant Scotland.
Wee Eck is an out and out Stalinist so it is not like he will be creating a wonderful free market environment for business to thrive. Indeed he has promised 'a day of reckoning' for all businesses who have opposed independance and he intends to nationalise BP's Scottish operations. He has promised the earth and he has no way to deliver it other than economically illiterate 'tax and spend'. And it won't be long before there is no private sector left to tax. Be interesting to see how wonderful the Scottish NHS is when it has no money to spend.
Done right - low taxes, low regulation, creating a very attractive environment for international business to come and set up operations it might just be workable. With a Socialist government? No chance. It will end up like Southern Rhodesia under Mugabe....bankrupt.
Hahahahaha…. Yes, you can see that there is nothing to gain for the Scots, or plenty for the English to lose, by the antics of Cameron and his cronies running around like headless chickens trying desperately to get the ‘Yes’ vote to change their mind! :lol:
Answer me this: currently, are the vast majority of decisions taken in Westminster done primarily for the benefit of English interests?
Marco.
This whole despising Westminster thing will morph into despising Edinburgh next - politicians are the core problem. If a nation is viable with 5m people then 22,000 with oil should be viable. When is the Shetland independence vote going to take place. :lol:
Lol - it’s not about “despising” Westminster, but simply resenting being controlled by a ruling body that doesn’t have your best interests at heart, and replacing it with one that does (or at least some semblance of it) :)
The Scots want a FAIRER democratic system and a bigger share of what it rightly theirs, and they should be entitled to that - simples!!
:exactly:
Marco.
Lol - it’s not about “despising” Westminster, but simply resenting being controlled by a ruling body that doesn’t have your best interests at heart, and replacing it with one that does (or at least some semblance of it) :)
Marco.
That's a very fine difference which doesn't come across. I see the same resentment / despising happening with Edinburgh over time.
brian2957
18-09-2014, 09:32
At least we'll be able to see the ' whites of the politicians eyes ' if they're based in Edinburgh .
walpurgis
18-09-2014, 09:37
I get the impression that you regard politicians with the same amount of scorn as I do Marco. I just hope that if Scotland does go it alone, it doesn't end up with its own slippery bunch of scumbag politicians.
That's a very fine difference which doesn't come across. I see the same resentment / despising happening with Edinburgh over time.
Not from me there won’t. It’s a different thing, although they’ll always be saying: ‘you’ll have had yer tea?’ ;)
You might have to look that one up!
Marco.
I get the impression that you regard politicians with the same amount of scorn as I do Marco. I just hope that if Scotland does go it alone, it doesn't end up with its own slippery bunch of scumbag politicians.
You are bang on there, Geoff, which is why I never vote (as the current assholes are all as bad as each other).
Also, in general, I hate politics, as most of it bores the pants off of me, but I feel very strongly about Scottish independence and Scotland having being repressed for years by English rule, within a supposed ‘United Kingdom'. The fact is, there hasn’t been a ‘union’ worthy of the name for a very long time, so all this ’stronger together’ nonsense is bollocks.
Aye, *England* would be stronger if Scotland stayed with them, is more like it, so you can see Westminster once again trying desperately to look after No1… ‘Union’ my arse! For those reasons, if I still lived in Scotland, I’d have been out this morning placing a big ‘YES’ vote in the ballot box.
In terms of your latter point, yes let’s hope so, and there’s only one way to find out!
Marco.
Not from me there won’t. It’s a different thing, although they’ll always be saying: ‘you’ll have had yer tea?’ ;)
You might have to look that one up!
Marco.
Careful what you wish for may end up be apt too. Marco, you may not resent Edinburgh in future but you actually have no say in this as you don't get a vote! My Sassenach has more sya! You also live a little closer to London than you do Edinburgh. Having given up on Scotland you're trying to "have your cake an eat it!". All meant in jest....mostly! :-)
Lol - not at all! I was born in Scotland and have spent most of my life there, am proud of my Scottish nationality (even though my ethnicity is Italian), so I can’t help but have an affinity with the country and its people. Therefore, I genuinely care about their best interests, even if it means that we have to make some sacrifices here in Wales, in order for Scotland to flourish.
Also I didn’t “give up” on Scotland; I move to North Wales for family reasons, but there’s nothing to stop us moving back up there one day, especially once they've grown and prospered, as with a ‘Yes’ vote, I genuinely believe they will! ;)
Marco.
Will they let you back Marco? At this rate you may end up with a Welsh passport with no rights to live in your birth country!
:lolsign:
Well, I’ve always liked sheep, so what the hell…. :sheep:
Marco.
I think we,ll let Marco back in. Nowt wrong with Italian blood. My wife is quarter Italian
My mother was Italian I so concur about Italian blood.
walpurgis
18-09-2014, 10:32
If it's a Yes, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the Union Jack (union flag) and everything bearing it.
Thistles too hopefully!
Thistley sheep, now there lies the cruellest rub of all
. I just hope that if Scotland does go it alone, it doesn't end up with its own slippery bunch of scumbag politicians.
Well if it doesn't it will be the first time in human history, but I suppose it is not impossible, just highly unlikely.
I just love the suggestion that Scotland hasn't been getting its fair share all these years. That is so far from reality it is scary. Check out the Barnett Formula.
No matter how you work it England (SE England excluding London, to be specific) subsidises the entire rest of the UK. Even without making good on all his crazy promises Salmond will not be able to balance the books. 1st year deficit is estimated at £15 billion and it will only get worse from then on in.
Firebottle
18-09-2014, 11:01
How many actually realise the 'rest of the UK' have been subsidised for so long, just check out the education budgets.
Unless voters have unwisely been taken in by Mr A. 'Slitherin' and the SNP's Fantasy Statehood game I expect a 'NO' result today... ;)
brian2957
18-09-2014, 11:09
I suspect you may be correct Dave .
I'll be disappointed if it is a 'No'. what an anti-climax that will be. A 'Yes' would be far more interesting. No exit polls so we won't know until this time tomorrow as I understand it.
Thistles too hopefully!
Indeed! Meanwhile, this is the pish we’re having to put up with from the idiot (unfortunately English) media:
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/referendum/347858/video-watch-sky-news-kay-burley-caught-swearing-yes-voter-live-aberdeen-broadcast/
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Also, contrary to what the presenter said, this is not about “campaigning AGAINST ENGLAND”, or a hatred of the English; it’s about campaigning FOR SCOTLAND!!
Why are so many English people taking the vote for Scottish Independence as a slur against their country (and them), when the reality is that what the Scottish people are fighting for is simply what’s right and fair - and above all - THEIRS?
Marco.
It would be far more interesting Martin but with the current shower at the helm it will be a total car wreck, and I wouldn't wish that on our brothers and sisters north of the border for all the tea in China :eyebrows:
What angers me most is that an opportunity to launch Scotland as an independent entity has been completely screwed up by Salmond and his mob thus robbing the Scots of their birth right. The man is a charlatan of epic proportions and I hope the population give him what he so richly deserves, a size twelve boot up the jacksy!!! :steam:
brian2957
18-09-2014, 11:20
Just going to put my mark on the ballot paper . I just pray we all make the right decision whatever it is :rolleyes:
Just going to put my mark on the ballot paper . I just pray we all make the right decision whatever it is :rolleyes:
All the best Bri ;)
Oh, and before anyone supposes I am an anti-YES campaigner: Whomever put Alistair Darling in charge of the 'NO' campaign wants their head examined. In fact they are probably doing time in Broadmoor as we speak...
Why are so many English people taking the vote for Scottish Independence as a slur against their country (and them), when the reality is that what the Scottish people are fighting for is simply what’s right and fair - and above all - THEIRS?
Marco.
They arn't -although the media wish they were since it would make a far more interesting story. Nobody in England cares whether the Scots go or stay apart from perhaps the Labour Party who stand to lose 40 odd Members of Parliament and about 5 million votes.
Yes, me too. I would have preferred that the union had used proper debate rather than the scare tactics as it has kinda produced 2 camps that are now polar opposites. This whole thing could easily been avoided but now our fate is in the hands of people with grudges.
I have always considered myself British, but successive govts have made me doubt this now. I am saddened
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 11:31
Well there seems to be plenty English people on here wanting to talk about it!
And why not Ali, this affects us too mate ;)
I just love the suggestion that Scotland hasn't been getting its fair share all these years. That is so far from reality it is scary. Check out the Barnett Formula.
No matter how you work it England (SE England excluding London, to be specific) subsidises the entire rest of the UK. Even without making good on all his crazy promises Salmond will not be able to balance the books. 1st year deficit is estimated at £15 billion and it will only get worse from then on in.
Sadly, Martin, most of that is ill-informed nonsense, and simply shows how you (unfortunately like many other people) have been brainwashed by what the present government and media *want* you to believe.
If you truly want to know the economic facts about the independence debate, then I would recommend watching this video (and properly digesting its contents): http://reportingthereferendum.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/economic-case-for-scottish-independence.html?spref=tw
Enjoy!
Marco.
Well there seems to be plenty English people on here wanting to talk about it!
Actually I am Liverpudlian first, then Lancastrian, then English. Devolve to the max, I say! ;)
walpurgis
18-09-2014, 11:40
Actually I am Liverpudlian first, then Lancastrian, then English. Devolve to the max, I say! ;)
Liverpool is like another country anyway! :D
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 11:40
I think a more decentralised government would work better.
Nobody in England cares whether the Scots go or stay apart from perhaps the Labour Party who stand to lose 40 odd Members of Parliament and about 5 million votes.
I suggest you tell that to a certain xenophobic amp designer, with a HUGE chip on his shoulder! After, however, you have watched the above video………..!
Marco.
Liverpool is like another country anyway! :D
It sure is. I shall be there tomorrow -going for a trip on the ferry 'cross the Mersey :)
This kinda sums it up for me..When I look out to sea all I see is oil rigs but when I look inland all I see is food banks!
It sure is. I shall be there tomorrow -going for a trip on the ferry 'cross the Mersey :)
Are you going to watch that video?
Marco.
If they vote yes food banks are going to be the only type of banks you will have ;)
Are you going to watch that video?
Marco.
Can't at the moment - I am at work and we are not supposed to watch streaming video unless it is work-related :(
Scots gonna create their own currency or gonna borrows ours, bit ironik since how they don't want to be in the UK anymore?
Dude, Scotland were using the Pound before the union, see here: http://shaunynews.com/2014/09/15/scotland-the-pound-can-we-put-another-myth-to-bed/
Marco.
Can't at the moment - I am at work and we are not supposed to watch streaming video unless it is work-related :(
No worries, but please do when you get a chance, and that applies to everyone else with a misinformed notion of how UK money in reality is divided.
Marco.
Aha, a different flavour of misinformation... Yummy!!! :)
No worries, but please do when you get a chance, and that applies to everyone else with a misinformed notion of how UK money in reality is divided.
Marco.
Well I'm basing my notion on the figures from the O.N.S. I'm not sure if there is another credible source but I'll have a watch of the video later.
If the vote for Scottish independence results in a 'Yes' vote I believe it will be incumbent on any Scottish owned businesses based south of the border to relocate into Scotland and bolster the embryonic Scottish economy in it's greatest hour of need. It would surely go down well with many Scottish folks and particularly with the 'hard core' anti-English brigade, for the non-Scottish punters to send their profits into Scotland and bolster their economy.
Dave.
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 12:59
What "hard core anti-English brigade"?
I don't know of any.
What "hard core anti-English brigade"?
I don't know of any.
I'm not black so I likely notice less racism than a black person would. Similar logic probably applies anti-English.
There have been times in Scotland I've experienced strong anti-English sentiment. It's only a small minority but it exists.
There have been a couple of vague hints on this thread that English input here is either unwelcome or else is viewed with disdain. This is not an uncommon attitude amongst a certain segment of Scottish society as I know only too well. I am myself of Scottish descent with both sets of my great grandparents hailing from the mother country. I have also lived within a staunchly Scottish community located within England since 1982 so I know what I am talking about. Most of my friends are either ex-pat Scots or of Scottish descent and of both sides of the sectarian divide, and believe me this divide is as tangible as it is in Ulster.
I value all my friends equally however get them talking about football and the real division between the two communities rears its ugly head, and it ain't footie. The political and religious landscape in Scotland very much echoes that of NI but in a slightly milder form, although it is voiced with just as much passion. There is a marching season here for example, as there is in Ulster, where the two sides march their bands around the town, their supporters flaunting and taunting with every step. Personally I find it unsavoury and unnecessary and there have been some heated debates on the issue between us which, more often than not, end with the comment, "Well you're English, what would you know? As well as being mildly racist, the irony of the fact that almost to a man they were born and bred in England is lost on them.
I expect the result of the referendum to be based broadly along sectarian lines with the majority of 'Loyalists' voting to stay within the UK and vice versa. Should the secessionists lose the vote you can expect a vitriolic reaction from this camp from the word 'go', with much of the blame being heaped upon the English. Please don't shoot the messenger here as this view is based upon years of experience and discussion.
and there have been some heated debates on the issue between us which, more often than not, end with the comment, "Well you're English, what would you know? As well as being mildly racist, the irony of the fact that almost to a man they were born and bred in England is lost on them.
.
Interesting stuff Dave but let's not fall into the 'newspeak' trap of using the word 'racism' to apply to people of different nationalities. A man born in Scotland and a man born in England are not of different races solely by virtue of that. Nationality is not the same as race.
Interesting stuff Dave but let's not fall into the 'newspeak' trap of using the word 'racism' to apply to people of different nationalities. A man born in Scotland and a man born in England are not of different races solely by virtue of that. Nationality is not the same as race.
Exactly. I use the word for want of something more accurate rather than in its 'ultimate' sense ;)
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 13:32
Dave, that divide may exist, but travel outside of Glasgow and it's environs, and no-one has any experience of it. As a child growing up in the North East of Scotland, such things didn't exist. Don't paint the rest of Scotland with that brush, it's only in a very small part of the country that it rears it's ugly head. It certainly does in the Liverpool area!
And BTW, no-one's input is unwelcome for my part, my earlier comment was aimed at Macca's earlier post saying that the English didn't give a shit.
:doh: My bad Ali... I did intend to point this out in my post but got distracted by events here at home. You are of course correct, this phenomenon is polarised mainly in and around the major cities, particularly Glasgow ;)
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 14:20
I have only ever seen it in Glasgow, never seen it anywhere else.
The Barbarian
18-09-2014, 14:25
Dude, Scotland were using the Pound before the union
Marco.
Um i was not aware of that.
Can i ask what is the big anti England attitude with you?. This topic is a prime example, it's not the first time ive noticed this.
:steam:
MikeMusic
18-09-2014, 14:34
Scots are just like the English
Good, bad and indifferent, with a funny accent
:)
, it's only in a very small part of the country that it rears it's ugly head. It certainly does in the Liverpool area!
.
No, not any more. When I was a kid when the Orange Lodge would march past my mum or my nan would get us in the house and close the curtains but that is forty years ago and it was dying out even then. I get the impression that it is as bad as ever in Glasgow but I don't speak from experience.
Dude, Scotland were using the Pound before the union, see here: http://shaunynews.com/2014/09/15/scotland-the-pound-can-we-put-another-myth-to-bed/
Marco.
That is not strictly accurate Marco as the unit of currency in Scotland pre-union was the Crown.
The first king of Scots to produce his own coinage was David I (1124–53). David I has been regarded as an anglicising force in Scotland, and indeed, the coins bear an uncanny resemblance to those of Stephen, King of England
With the Union of the Crowns in 1603, Scottish coins became more closely based on English models, rather than Continental ones. At this period, it was still not uncommon for coins to be used in more than one country, partly because of their metal value. During the reign of Charles I, mechanical minting was introduced.
Following the union, James VI introduced the first gold coins that were similar on both sides of the border, with an exchange rate of 1 pound sterling to 12 pound Scots. (Pound being the unit of weight rather than the moniker of the currency)
Following the 1707 union between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England, the Scottish silver (but not gold nor copper) coinage was replaced with new silver coins, with the aim of creating a common currency for the new Kingdom of Great Britain as required by the Treaty of Union.[8] The exercise was conducted under the guidance of Sir Isaac Newton, who had previously directed the recoinage in England some years earlier in his role as Warden of the Mint (and subsequently as Master of the Mint).
;)
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 14:41
Really? (Dave)
I must have imagined the Orange March I saw a couple of years ago in Southport then...
Really? (Dave)
I must have imagined the Orange March I saw a couple of years ago in Southport then...
I'm not saying they don't still have the odd march but there isn't any sectarian violence anymore.
Re: Scottish currency - in the olden days coins had an inherent value so you could use them anywhere. It doesn't work that way any more. Scotland can have the Pound and have it's economy controlled from London or it can have the Euro and have Berlin in charge of interest rates, or it could have the U.S dollar and be at the mercy of the Federal Reserve. I've yet to see a Nat answer this satisfactorily.
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 14:53
That's not what the locals were saying, according to them, trouble during the march was common. It's held every year, and has been for many years.
In any case, the point I was making is that this doesn't just happen in Scotland!
Oldpinkman
18-09-2014, 15:10
I still find it outrageous that the Scots get to vote whether they can leave, but we don't get to vote whether we can boot them out. Like others, I like Scotland, and Scottish people, and my best friends are MacNeils from Barra, but I want a level playing field.
The Scots get to vote on expenditure with no revenue raising consequences, and consequently can vote in their own parliament to pay for their kids uni fees, and then vote in our parliament not to let the rest of the union enjoy the same benefit.
I think England would be a far more prosperous place, and more comfortable in its own skin, without having its political landscape dominated by the Scotts. And the labour party won't stand a snowballs chance in hell at Westminster once the Scottish labour MP's are paying for their own ideas in their own country.
However, for all the puff, I think when it goes to the wire the Scotts aren't daft enough to go - they will just use this to milk the situation for greater independance for their spending parliament, without the revenue raising responsibilities of setting taxes to pay for it. Hence my frustration that we don't get to vote on it this side of the border, just as we don't get an English parliament - just the Westminster one.
Um i was not aware of that.
Can i ask what is the big anti England attitude with you?. This topic is a prime example, it's not the first time ive noticed this.
:steam:
Andre, you obviously haven’t read what I’ve written properly. Just because I’m proud of my Scottish connections and passionate about Scottish independence does NOT make me anti-English!
I suggest you read this post, paying particular attention to the two paragraphs underneath the smilies, which explains my position on the matter: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34315-AoS-%91Scottish-Mafia%92-wot%92s-it-gonna-be-tomorrow%85%85&p=581359#post581359
Marco.
What "hard core anti-English brigade"?
I don't know of any.
Exactly. It really pisses me off the English people who are apparently taking such umbrage that Scotland want to go it alone, and consider it as some kind of ‘insult’ against them, especially when you are deemed as “anti-English” simply because you want the BEST for Scotland.
Get a grip for goodness sake!
Marco.
I'm not black so I likely notice less racism than a black person would. Similar logic probably applies anti-English.
There have been times in Scotland I've experienced strong anti-English sentiment. It's only a small minority but it exists.
The same applies, Clive, to anti-Scottish sentiment in England, which I’ve experienced more than a few times. It doesn’t mean, however, that I tar all English people with the same brush.
There is anti-Scottish/English/Irish and Welsh (delete as applicable) sentiment all over of the UK, depending on where you go. Anti-English sentiment does not have the monopoly.
Marco.
I've experienced anti-English sentiment from Welsh, Scots, Irish and Cornish but never experienced anti-Welsh, Scots, Irish or Cornish sentiments from an Englishman, unless you count a bit of gentle banter, which I don't.
It is odd how the Irish, Welsh and Scots are allowed to be fiercely patriotic, indeed it is practically expected, but a patriotic Englishman is always branded a 'racist' or 'little Englander' or (my favourite) 'extreme right wing'.
Why is nationalism considered a right wing trait and therefore extremely deplorable and nasty if you are English (or Hitler) but is absolutely not right wing if you are both a socialist and a proud Scotsman? Good old Doublespeak, where would we be without it?
The same applies, Clive, to anti-Scottish sentiment in England and Wales, which I’ve experienced more than a few times. It doesn’t mean, however, that I tar all English people with the same brush.
There anti-Scottish/English/Irish and Welsh (delete as applicable) sentiment all over of the UK, depending on where you go. Anti-English sentiment does not have the monopoly.
Marco.
For sure Marco there are unpleasant people from every country with chips on their shoulders. Something in their upbringing probably develops their behaviour. I don't think anyone's tarring whole nations with the same brush. Outside of certain cities the mood changes dramatically, the same is true in England too of course. There is something about the level of vitriol that I've experienced from a few Scots but maybe some English are the same with Scots and naturally I don't experience that being English (and Italian).
Hi Richard,
Hence my frustration that we don't get to vote on it this side of the border, just as we don't get an English parliament - just the Westminster one.
Don’t you think that one’s given you enough perks over the years, especially with living in the south of England, the likes of where Westminster panders to? ;)
The reason why Scotland wants independence is to at long last obtain access to similar ‘perks’, read as: that which Scotland is entitled to, instead of continually being treated by Westminster as second-class citizens. That’s why Scotland *needs* it’s own parliament! You don’t.
Marco.
What "hard core anti-English brigade"?
I don't know of any.
Sorry Ali, been having my afternoon nap - I'm allowed at my age, in fact it's almost unavoidable :lol: .
My job took me into Scotland sometimes and my BiL was a submariner based in Faslane for a few years - he even got married there - so I do know a little about the relationship between the Scottish and English peoples first hand. You and I have met a couple of times at Owston so I know it does not apply to you but are you seriously denying that there are no 'hard core anti-Engish' folk in Scotland? They may have kept it soto voce for a long but this referendum has, IMO, prompted one or two to raise their voices (and actions) a little, judged by what we see on TV. I'm sure that they do not stage these things so they did happen. I suspect that they are in a very small minority (you would know that better than I), but they do exist, just as a hard core anti-Scottish brigade exist in England.
Dave.
There is something about the level of vitriol that I've experienced from a few Scots but maybe some English are the same with Scots and naturally I don't experience that being English (and Italian).
Exactly, you don't notice it in England because you’re English. However try having a broad Scottish accent and go into some parts of London and the south of England, and see (sometimes) the less than friendly reaction you get, especially when handing over Scottish banknotes (at the moment perfectly legal currency anywhere in the UK) in English shops and restaurants! ;)
Marco.
Marco, we all have gripes over parliament, even the English have suffered at the hands of the Scots, eg Scottish MPs voted for £9,000 per year University fees even though they didn't apply in Scotland. Had the Scottish MPs not voted the fees would not be £9,000 now... I'm sure the are plenty of examples the other way around but that's why we have devolution, except for England we don't.
There are racists in every culture, just as there are criminals. I have experienced it in England myself often. Doesn't mean I think any less of the majority of English people, nor do the vast majority of Scots. They also don't think the average Englishman is represented by Westminster correctly. If, and its a big if, Scotland gains something from this excersise then I hope Englishmen can reclaim their rights as well, as there been diluted by Europe, do-gooders and wannabe politicians who are no good at anything else, and not very good people either. Rise up my friends_
Exactly, you don't notice it in England because you’re English. However try having a broad Scottish accent and go into some parts of London and the south of England, and see (sometimes) the less than friendly reaction you get, especially when handing over Scottish banknotes (at the moment perfectly legal currency anywhere in the UK) in English shops and restaurants! ;)
Marco.
I can imagine that and I know the issue with banknotes all to well!
I've experienced anti-English sentiment from Welsh, Scots, Irish and Cornish but never experienced anti-Welsh, Scots, Irish or Cornish sentiments from an Englishman, unless you count a bit of gentle banter, which I don't.
Then you just haven’t been in the right places at the right time, but I can assure you that I’ve experienced very strong anti-Scottish sentiment from English people, mainly when in London and the south of England, and “banter” it wasn’t! :nono:
I’ve never experienced it though in Liverpool! In my experience, the Scousers, Mancs and Geordies (even genuine Cockneys) get on great with the Scots (they all have a similar mentality), but that can change quite drastically the further south one ventures in England, where that friendly camaraderie generally becomes rather more diluted…
Marco.
I have experienced anti-English sentiment from Scots for most of my adult life, it comes with the territory (in the literal sense). Not from all Scots mind but commonly from one section of the sectarian divide (I am choosing my words very carefully here so as not to cause offence). It is rife in this town (as it is in Glasgow and surrounding districts) and you'd need to be dead not to notice it.
What I have found is that if one gives as good as one gets then a certain respect is garnered and which in my case led to friendships developing on from there. The sad thing about this is that it took a certain amount of discord to spark those friendships.
Marco, we all have gripes over parliament, even the English have suffered at the hands of the Scots, eg Scottish MPs voted for £9,000 per year University fees even though they didn't apply in Scotland.
Yes but, historically, it happens much more the other way round. Scottish independence, if it happens, will hopefully restore some parity. You guys have been used to having it mostly your own way for too long! ;)
Marco.
Oldpinkman
18-09-2014, 16:09
The reason why Scotland wants independence is to at long last obtain access to similar ‘perks’, read as: that which Scotland is entitled to, instead of continually being treated by Westminster as second-class citizens. That’s why Scotland *needs* it’s own parliament! You don’t.
Marco.
Marco - if the Scots cut loose, to a very considerable extent, we will have our English parliament back - free of all those Scottish Labour MP's clogging it up at the present. As I say, I wish them well, and a speedy departure :cool:
Well, that’s great then - it’ll be a win-win for us both! :)
Marco.
I can imagine that and I know the issue with banknotes all to well!
C'mon guys, be fair - non of this clap-trap about Scottish bank notes. Instead of being 'narked' when their tender is questioned south of the border, be grateful when they are accepted. You guys are familiar with Scottish Bank notes and also with English bank notes because they prevail. I live in the north of England and I'm familiar with the concept of a Scottish bank note being legal tender throughout the UK but I'm much less sure that I would immediately know if one was current or obsolete. Given that many shop assistants are not pointed in that direction for a career for being top of their classes at school it should not surprise you that, the further south in the UK you go the greater the chance of a Scottish bank note being queried and/or refused. As business men you would not smile benignly at any of your employees accepting any currency that they were less than certain of it's validity so why 'bitch' when you're on the receiving end.
Dave.
Marco - if the Scots cut loose, to a very considerable extent, we will have our English parliament back - free of all those Scottish Labour MP's clogging it up at the present. As I say, I wish them well, and a speedy departure :cool:
be careful what you wish for;)
Stratmangler
18-09-2014, 16:24
Exactly, you don't notice it in England because you’re English. However try having a broad Scottish accent and go into some parts of London and the south of England, and see (sometimes) the less than friendly reaction you get, especially when handing over Scottish banknotes (at the moment perfectly legal currency anywhere in the UK) in English shops and restaurants! ;)
Marco.
You want to try spending Scottish banknotes in the town I live in - there are a couple of shops will accept them, but they're few and far between!
The issue is one of recognising forgeries - they're adept at spotting English notes, but throw the Scottish ones into the mix and you can see the panic rising. Is it or isn't it?
If I've been on a trip North of the border I tend to spend the remainder of any cash I have in my local Tesco - if the checkout staff have an issue then it's time to call for a duty manager to perform on the spot training :eyebrows:
C'mon guys, be fair - non of this clap-trap about Scottish bank notes. Instead of being 'narked' when their tender is questioned south of the border, be grateful when they are accepted. You guys are familiar with Scottish Bank notes and also with English bank notes because they prevail. I live in the north of England and I'm familiar with the concept of a Scottish bank note being legal tender throughout the UK but I'm much less sure that I would immediately know if one was current or obsolete. Given that many shop assistants are not pointed in that direction for a career for being top of their classes at school it should not surprise you that, the further south in the UK you go the greater the chance of a Scottish bank note being queried and/or refused. As business men you would not smile benignly at any of your employees accepting any currency that they were less than certain of it's validity so why 'bitch' when you're on the receiving end.
Dave.
I agree with that, Dave. It’s the surly, snooty and condescending f*ckers you meet, who know full well what Scottish banknotes are, yet STILL have a poor attitude towards not only accepting the money, but the person handing it over, that gets right up my nose!
That’s just sheer ignorance, and there’s no excuse for it.
Marco.
brian2957
18-09-2014, 16:29
Good grief ! When I last read this thread it was about whether Scotland could survive economically as an independent country . How did we get here . The Protestants and Catholics heading towards civil war , the seeming venom between the Scots , the English , the Irish and the Welsh . Can someone please tell me what an Orange walk in Liverpool and Corby has to do with Scottish independence .
Scottish independence IMO at least has nothing to do with the religious divide in Scotland, which as Ali rightly says is more or less confined to the Glasgow area . There will be no 'civil war ' unless it's played out at Ibrox or Parkhead . Scotland , particularly its cities , are fairly cosmopolitan and multicultural places these days . Most Scots have more to worry about than trying to hate the English ,or anyone else for that matter.
This is about one thing and one thing only - it's about the people of Scotland having the courage and confidence to take control of their own destiny . To get the government and the leaders they vote for . This is a leap in the dark for the Scots and many are nervous . I would rather this hadn't reared its ugly head at this time as I think it's a couple of years too early . However , it isn't going to go away and has to be dealt with . The last thing that's bothering me is whether I hate someone of a different religion or residents of a different country
After all we're all' Jock Tamsons Bairns' . Yes you may have to google this . Maybe it'll take your minds off some of the stuff which has been written on this thread and get back to the real subject under discussion . You know it makes sense :)
Yes but, historically, it happens much more the other way round. Scottish independence, if it happens, will hopefully restore some parity. You guys have been used to having it mostly your own way for too long! ;)
Marco.
Tell that to my kids paying an extra £24,000 on their fees over 4 years. Thing is I'll end up paying. That's a serious amount of money. Anyway.....more importanly I'm really getting on well with my new Ortofon 2M Mono SE - the one a Shibata tip.
brian2957
18-09-2014, 16:33
Tell that to my kids paying an extra £24,000 on their fees over 4 years. Thing is I'll end up paying. That's a serious amount of money. Anyway.....more importanly I'm really getting on well with my new Ortofon 2M Mono SE - the one a Shibata tip.
Yup tell us about the cartridge Clive . Please .
Oldpinkman
18-09-2014, 16:41
Well, that’s great then - it’ll be a win-win for us both! :)
Marco.
"both" seems to espouse the Scottish independence cause as your own. I appreciate you are of the stock, like my mate Neil Joseph MacNeil, and he retains a house on Barra, but is for all that living in England. Unless my geography is seriously pissed, Wrexham is south of Hadrians Wall.
The wrong side of Offa's Dyke, but don't start me... ;)
(I have a wife with a maiden name of Williams, before you get too excitable)
I don't think the status of the UK , or its remnants, is going to be a big concern to me when I move to France - however English I am. They can tax and spend themselves to bankrupcy without it affecting me any more than the next French resident.
Tell that to my kids paying an extra £24,000 on their fees over 4 years. Thing is I'll end up paying. That's a serious amount of money.
Nightmare - I feel for ya! However, that’s why I used the word “mostly”:
You guys have been used to having it mostly your own way for too long!
I think you’d find it hard to argue against England having generally enjoyed more advantages than Scotland, under various UK governments, especially if you live in London or the south. You didn’t get the Poll Tax foisted upon you, for example, or nuclear submarines parked on your back yard! ;)
Marco.
Yup tell us about the cartridge Clive . Please .
Brian, I expect you're wanting any diversion so here goes....I posted some on the Beatles Mono thread:
I've just been playing Rubber Soul comparing the Ortofon 2M Mono with 2M Mono SE. The SE version is marketed cleverly in tandem with the Beatles mono set. The SE has a better generator, body and Shibata stylus profile instead of the conical on the standard 2M Mono. The SE is a decent improvement in clarity, a little smoother on the really raw parts of recordings. Cleaner, more detailed yet more sympathetic. It'll not be anywhere near the ultimate of course, the likes of a SPU Mono would be interesting. Glad I bought the SE though as I do have a lot of mono LPs.
Since I posted that I've played Coltrane / Blue Train and I have to say that good as the standard 2M Mono is, the SE version is so much more complete, much more sophisticated and totally enjoyable Blue Train is such a great album so maybe I'm being swung by the music but it's better than ever with the SE.
Nightmare - I feel for ya! However, that’s why I used the word “mostly”:
I think you’d find it hard to argue against England having generally enjoyed more advantages than Scotland, especially if you live in London or the south. You didn’t get the Poll Tax foisted upon you, for example, or nuclear submarines parked on your back yard! ;)
Marco.
We'll get the subs back....or possibly Ireland will!
The £24k is per child btw.
"both" seems to espouse the Scottish independence cause as your own. I appreciate you are of the stock, like my mate Neil Joseph MacNeil, and he retains a house on Barra, but is for all that living in England. Unless my geography is seriously pissed, Wrexham is south of Hadrians Wall.
Lol… A ‘win’ for me will be denoted as independence being achieved for the Scottish people, and my happiness for them, even though I don’t currently live there, and hopefully the medium to long-term advantages that will bring for the country.
Although I live in Wales, my heart still lies in Scotland (and Italy) :)
Marco.
Nightmare - I feel for ya! However, that’s why I used the word “mostly”:
You didn’t get the Poll Tax foisted upon you
Marco.
I call bullshit on that, as an Englishman who paid it whilst living in England
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 16:57
Exactly, you don't notice it in England because you’re English. However try having a broad Scottish accent and go into some parts of London and the south of England, and see (sometimes) the less than friendly reaction you get, especially when handing over Scottish banknotes (at the moment perfectly legal currency anywhere in the UK) in English shops and restaurants! ;)
Marco.
+1. I spent a year at school living near Southampton. I was mercilessly ribbed almost the whole time I was there. Took a few battles before most would leave me alone.
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 16:58
I call bullshit on that, as an Englishman who paid it whilst living in England
How is it bullshit? It was trialled on the Scots first!
I call bullshit on that, as an Englishman who paid it whilst living in England
:thumbsup:
brian2957
18-09-2014, 17:04
Brian, I expect you're wanting any diversion so here goes....I posted some on the Beatles Mono thread:
I've just been playing Rubber Soul comparing the Ortofon 2M Mono with 2M Mono SE. The SE version is marketed cleverly in tandem with the Beatles mono set. The SE has a better generator, body and Shibata stylus profile instead of the conical on the standard 2M Mono. The SE is a decent improvement in clarity, a little smoother on the really raw parts of recordings. Cleaner, more detailed yet more sympathetic. It'll not be anywhere near the ultimate of course, the likes of a SPU Mono would be interesting. Glad I bought the SE though as I do have a lot of mono LPs.
Since I posted that I've played Coltrane / Blue Train and I have to say that good as the standard 2M Mono is, the SE version is so much more complete, much more sophisticated and totally enjoyable Blue Train is such a great album so maybe I'm being swung by the music but it's better than ever with the SE.
Nice one Clive , don't you just love it when a plan comes together ;)
BTH K10A
18-09-2014, 17:06
Marco - if the Scots cut loose, to a very considerable extent, we will have our English parliament back - free of all those Scottish Labour MP's clogging it up at the present. As I say, I wish them well, and a speedy departure :cool:
And if Spain & Belgium do veto an independant Scotland's entry into the EU it may be that the Scots would need to apply for either an English passport or a work visa or else face deportation :lol:
How is it bullshit? It was trialled on the Scots first!
Precisely, and it was whilst I was living up there. To understand why some of the resentment exists amongst Scots towards Westminster, you only have to look at the sheer arrogance and injustice of that decision, and that was prevalent pretty much throughout the whole of the Maggie Thatcher era!
Marco.
MikeMusic
18-09-2014, 17:13
and there is this of course
If Scotland gains its independence as a result of the forthcoming referendum, the remainder of the UK will be known as the "Former United Kingdom" (FUK).
In a bid to discourage the Scots from voting "yes" the English government has begun a campaign with the slogan
"Vote NO for FUK's sake."
They feel that Scottish voters will warm to this.
:lolsign:
Read that on TAS, Mike, and it's just as funny here!
Marco.
The Poll Tax was a lousy idea and the entire UK spoke with one voice against it, better together worked in this case. It was terribly unfair that a single region was selected to trial it however.
Maggie fooked the entire country over although I'm not seeing any mention of that here. I think you will find ex-miners in all regions of the UK speak with a single voice on this one for example... ;)
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 17:29
No argument from me on that one Dave.
brian2957
18-09-2014, 17:33
+1
Sorry if this is a 'stoopid' question but why are the UK Labour Party campaigning for a 'Yes' vote. As I understand it it's just the same as turkeys voting for Christmas, or is there something of which I'm not aware? If Scotland does go independent (and I hope not) will not the Westminster parliament lose all it's Scottish MPs, (leaving seats for everyone else perhaps :lol: ), the vast majority of which are Labour MPs. In other words a lot of budding national politicians will need to seek out another career in these difficult times or move south - or maybe that's what they really want? ;) .
Will this not mean, at least in the short to medium term, that we south of the border will have a permanent Conservative government? That prospect worries me more than a foreign country having a border with us to our north.
Dave..
It was terribly unfair that a single region was selected to trial it however.
Precisely, and *that* is the crux of the matter.
However, that type of disdainful attitude towards Scotland, however thinly disguised, is still prevalent today in Westminster, even though no such cruelly unfair policies since have been foisted on it - and that is where the resentment stems from amongst the Scottish people.
Marco.
Oldpinkman
18-09-2014, 17:49
Sorry if this is a 'stoopid' question but why are the UK Labour Party campaigning for a 'Yes' vote. As I understand it it's just the same as turkeys voting for Christmas, or is there something of which I'm not aware? If Scotland does go independent (and I hope not) will not the Westminster parliament lose all it's Scottish MPs, (leaving seats for everyone else perhaps :lol: ), the vast majority of which are Labour MPs. In other words a lot of budding national politicians will need to seek out another career in these difficult times or move south - or maybe that's what they really want? ;) .
Will this not mean, at least in the short to medium term, that we south of the border will have a permanent Conservative government? That prospect worries me more than a foreign country having a border with us to our north.
Dave..
Not stupid - very perceptive. An eternity of Conservative rule - take the Scottish MP's out of the UK parliament and we lose 50+ labour, and a pair of conservatives. Fingers crossed for a "Yes"
Not stupid - very perceptive. An eternity of Conservative rule - take the Scottish MP's out of the UK parliament and we lose 50+ labour, and a pair of conservatives. Fingers crossed for a "Yes"
Yeh but, no but, why are the Labour Party so much in favour of giving the Conservatives the possibility of a long term 'reign' south of the border? - that's the bit that I can't get my head round?
Dave.
brian2957
18-09-2014, 18:18
As far as I can see from up here Dave all the Labour politicians I've heard have been in the 'NO' camp . David Milliband came to Scotland with David Cameron the other day to plead with the Scots to vote 'NO ' .
Not stupid - very perceptive. An eternity of Conservative rule - take the Scottish MP's out of the UK parliament and we lose 50+ labour, and a pair of conservatives. Fingers crossed for a "Yes"
This is actually nonsense, Blair would have won the three elections without the Scottish vote or Scottish MPs, check the figures.
The other nonsense of course is this pish that 'we never got the goverment that we voted for in the past thirty years' well we've not had a Tory government since 1992 which incidently was a lame duck government so I make that three labour governments and a co-allition government between the Tories and the Liberal however Labour could have formed a minority government on it's own.
The other startling fact regarding the nationalists is that in 2010 at the general election they polled 490,000 votes with labour polling 1.2million something but the Tories polled 420,000 votes.
Tony
Yeh but, no but, why are the Labour Party so much in favour of giving the Conservatives the possibility of a long term 'reign' south of the border? - that's the bit that I can't get my head round?
Dave.
They won't see my post above.
Anyway labour will win the next general election and we Scots will be able to vote in that election regardless of the result tonight.
Precisely, and *that* is the crux of the matter.
However, that type of disdainful attitude towards Scotland, however thinly disguised, is still prevalent today in Westminster, even though no such cruelly unfair policies since have been foisted on it - and that is where the resentment stems from amongst the Scottish people.
Marco.
Sorry but this is also pish, where is this anti-Scottish sentiment at Westminster I keep hearing about cause I don't see it?
Sorry but this is also pish, where is this anti-Scottish sentiment at Westminster I keep hearing about cause I don't see it?
That's because it has been manufactured by the press and Mr Salmond. If he wins perhaps he should rename Scotland, Dreamland ;)
That's because it has been manufactured by the press and Mr Salmond. If he wins perhaps he should rename Scotland, Dreamland ;)
Couldn't agree more Dave, I've not read this entire thread (I will) but there issome right old crap being posted in the posts I've read.
Last time I checked there were no tanks parked in George Square and neither were there any British soldiers persecuting the entire population and we don't have a curfew or males being arrested cause the look' dodgy'.
We have free bus passes for the OAPs, free university places, free eyecare, free earcare, free prescriptions and there are more new hospitals and schools in Glasgow than you can shake a stick at.
But, according to some headcases we have to be 'free' to ruin the country cause we are Scoddish but wait, there's more, we have mullions of oil hidden in the Clyde and Rockall will be liberated forthwith!
Dear God I think I've gone to sleep and woken up in 1950, where's Hugh McDairmid when you need him?:lol:
brian2957
18-09-2014, 18:42
Now now Dave :)
Now now Dave :)
Ya know I'm only messing about Brian ;)
brian2957
18-09-2014, 18:55
Yup :) . Just a bit apprehensive about all this . Not about winning or losing or the vote going yes or no . More about what the future holds for Scotland and particularly its young 'uns.
See this other pish about Scottish banknotes and English people not taking them?
Well I have travelled extensively in England over the course of the past eight years down to my daughter being at Uni down in England, first in Cambridge then in London, I must have been down there on at least 30 seperate occasions and do you know how many times someone asked me about Scottish banknotes? One time yep one time and that was in a Shell garage in Cambridge and the guy finally took the note after a bit of reassurance from me.
Being honest I wouldn't take Scottish banknotes if I lived and worked in England cause let's face they look totally dodgy:eek:
And in all of that time I never experienced any anti-Scottish bias.
But Tony. what about the oppressed people of Dumbarton?:doh:
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 19:02
I lived in Leeds for 20 years and experienced the "funny money" syndrome loads of times.
I will hold my hands up and admit that I worked for a small chain of stores in England who's policy was not to accept Scottish tender, this caused a lot of headaches for us in Corby where it can be found everywhere. Eventually myself and my area manager convinced the board of the error of their ways and the policy was shelved.
Sorry but this is also pish, where is this anti-Scottish sentiment at Westminster I keep hearing about cause I don't see it?
Lol… Well, how many times over the years do you think decisions are made there which England benefits much more from than Scotland? In that respect, do you think there’s anything approaching parity, reflecting this ‘union’ that we’re supposed to have?
It’s precisely that bias which equates to anti-Scottish sentiment, and the only way to address that is for Scotland to leave the chinless wonders in Westminster to their own devices and govern themselves.
Marco.
I lived in Leeds for 20 years and experienced the "funny money" syndrome loads of times.
Point is Ali the banknote thing is a total red herring.
Can you blame some English punters for refusing the notes? I can't, it is bloody mickey mouse money.
I lived in Leeds for 20 years and experienced the "funny money" syndrome loads of times.
I experience it almost every time I leave Scotland, with Scottish banknotes, and try and use them in England. It’s ignorant bollocks, and really rather insulting.
Marco.
you blame some English punters for refusing the notes? I can't, it is bloody mickey mouse money.
No, the fact is it’s legal tender.
Marco.
Lol… Well, how many times over the years do you think decisions are made there which England benefits much more from than Scotland? In that respect, do you think there’s anything approaching parity, reflecting this ‘union’ that we’re supposed to have?
It’s precisely that bias which equates to anti-Scottish sentiment, and the only way to address that is for Scotland to leave the chinless wonders in Westminster to their own devices and govern themselves.
Marco.
Marco the last time the Edinburgh establishment had a say in running the country they totally fecked it up and that was 350 years ago mate but you think that the likes of Masterton and his mates are going to be all cushty?
Don't make me laugh mate.
The bstards gave Murray £1.1billion to pish up against a wall and the cunt still has his fecking knighthood despite ripping off his pensioners.
Plus ca change plus ca meme chose.
No, the fact is it’s legal tender.
Marco.
Marco get real mate, it's pish money, doesn't even look like real money it looks more like coupons for the car wash.
I think you’re on a piss take or are pished, or both! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Marco the last time the Edinburgh establishment had a say in running the country they totally fecked it up and that was 350 years ago mate but you think that the likes of Masterton and his mates are going to be all cushty?
Don't make me laugh mate.
The bstards gave Murray £1.1billion to pish up against a wall and the cunt still has his fecking knighthood despite ripping off his pensioners.
Plus ca change plus ca meme chose.
I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree :)
Marco.
They arn't -although the media wish they were since it would make a far more interesting story. Nobody in England cares whether the Scots go or stay apart from perhaps the Labour Party who stand to lose 40 odd Members of Parliament and about 5 million votes.
Dear God, there is only about 4million voters in Scotland Martin and only about 1.2million voted labour at the last general election.
Labour doesn't need Scotland to win a general election in England/rUk see Blair Tony 1997 to 2005.
I think you’re on a piss take or are pushed, or both! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Nope just annoyed as fuck with the amount of dis-information being spouted as fact.
No, the fact is it’s legal tender.
Marco.
Not so. Scottish bank notes are NOT 'legal tender' in England. They are not 'legal tender' in Scotland either! Nor are Bank of England bank notes 'legal tender' in Scotland either.
http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php
:doh: My bad Ali... I did intend to point this out in my post but got distracted by events here at home. You are of course correct, this phenomenon is polarised mainly in and around the major cities, particularly Glasgow ;)
Naw it's no.
Scrape the surface and it's endemic.
Load of nonesense to say it's a 'Glasgow or West of Scotland problem' that's a SNP thing.
In your opinion.
Marco.
What like Labour needs Scotland to win a general election in England?
That isn't mis-information?
Like we haven't had a Tory government in four general elections but 'we never get the government we vote' for pish?
That isn't mis-information?
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 19:36
Really? You obviously never lived in the North East or the Highlands then.
Douglas Young
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Young_(classicist)
Really? You obviously never lived in the North East or the Highlands then.
Are you seriously trying to say that there is no sectarian problem in Scotland outside of Glasgow?
Not so. Scottish bank notes are NOT 'legal tender' in England. They are not 'legal tender' in Scotland either! Nor are Bank of England bank notes 'legal tender' in Scotland either.
http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php
Ok, but that doesn’t excuse folk in England getting unnecessarily arsey about accepting Scottish banknotes. I can tell you for a fact that I’ve never once had a problem with English banknotes being accepted in Scotland.
Why is that, I wonder?
Marco.
Ok, but that doesn’t excuse folk in England getting unnecessarily arsey about accepting Scottish banknotes. I can tell you for a fact that I’ve never once had a problem with English banknotes being accepted in Scotland.
Why is that, I wonder?
Marco.
Cause it ain't mickey mouse money?:lol:
Could I suggest that we take a break to lick our wounds before continuing with this debate, it is getting to the point of boiling over and none of us want that ;)
losenotaminute
18-09-2014, 20:05
No, the fact is it’s legal tender.
Marco.
No they aren't, look it up.
Cause it ain't mickey mouse money?:lol:
Yet Keith has correctly said:
Nor are Bank of England bank notes 'legal tender' in Scotland either.
:ner: :ner:
Marco.
No they aren't, look it up.
Indeed, but we’ve been here already, Lawrence, keep up! ;)
Marco.
losenotaminute
18-09-2014, 20:14
Ok, but that doesn’t excuse folk in England getting unnecessarily arsey about accepting Scottish banknotes. I can tell you for a fact that I’ve never once had a problem with English banknotes being accepted in Scotland.
Why is that, I wonder?
Marco.
Because they don't see them as often I think.
Never had an issue myself on 15+ years of travelling. But I have had Bank of England fivers refused, and regularly get fake pounds given to me as change in both England and Scotland. Small businesses need to be very careful about fakes, its nothing to do with racism and the fact that you think it is reflects more on your attitude IMO.
The correct legal position is that shops in England are not obliged to accept Scottish notes, but the vast majority do.
losenotaminute
18-09-2014, 20:16
Indeed, but we’ve been here already, Lawrence, keep up! ;)
Marco.
Sorry, am not caught up yet!
Small businesses need to be very careful about fakes, its nothing to do with racism and the fact that you think it is reflects more on your attitude IMO.
I didn’t say that it had anything to do with racism, so don’t pin that one on me! Furthermore, I didn’t have an “attitude”; I simply wanted to pay for goods I’d bought with perfectly acceptable currency, and without getting any grief. Simples.
I encounter none of that problem in Wales… Maybe it’s a Celt thing? ;)
Marco.
archiesdad
18-09-2014, 20:27
Type slower guys I canna read too quick, so,
free university places-- this comes out of the budget we get so to do this we do without something else eg 4 lane motorways, street cleaning.
free doctors scripts---as above
etc.
I've had the odd funny look with Scottish notes in England but it's usually accepted when they see I had a swally of my beer or licked the ice cream, I take English/ Irish/ Manx notes from my punters, it's all money in the bank to me.
After 30 years in the "pits" and a year+ oot on strike please do not mention MT, the bad dreams have stopped but could come back.
Anti English? ME!, on a bad day I'm an equal opportunities hater, "yer all pricks":lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
All I can do now is wait for the count and hope I was right, or wrong, and everything still works out for the entire population of these islands.
*Yer, being the worlds population except certain despots and terrorist groups who are pricks 24/7.
losenotaminute
18-09-2014, 20:30
I didn’t say that it had anything to do with racism, so don’t pin that one on me! Furthermore, I didn’t have an “attitude”; I simply wanted to pay for goods I’d bought with perfectly acceptable currency, and without getting any grief. Simples.
I encounter none of that problem in Wales… Maybe it’s a Celt thing? ;)
Marco.
OK, I'm sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick, it does however seem that you believe there is a bias against Scotland in Westminster, which would be odd given the fact that Scotland has largely had the powers to control domestic policy for many years, even the right to raise taxes. And Scotland has supplied the majority of PMs in the last 100 years, if you include Scottish descent.
Laurence, I just tell it as I see it, but we obviously disagree, so best to leave it there :)
Marco.
Marco, you seem to choose to ignore the fact that Bank of England notes are universally held within the UK as acceptable currency whereas the Scottish bank notes are only universally held within Scotland as acceptable tender. Therefore it is totally unreasonable in my humble opinion, to get arsey because Scottish bank notes are often queried south of the border. It is simply a case of familiarity, most people resident south of the border have little or no knowledge or experience of Scottish bank notes and are therefore naturally cautious when offered one - simples, end of!!
But don't let the facts get in the way of a good grouse at some English folk, we're used to it ;) .
Dave.
losenotaminute
18-09-2014, 20:40
No worries Marco, I think respectful disagreement is fine. I'm up early tomorrow to head South for some house hunting just in case ��
Good luck - hope it works out well! :)
Marco.
Laurence, I just tell it as I see it, but we obviously disagree, so best to leave it there :)
Marco.
But your opinion doesn't make it so dude, oddly enough ;)
BTH K10A
18-09-2014, 20:53
Just a thought but if this goes ahead what is planned for the armed services.
I know there are Scottish regiments in the army, so will they transfer over or will the Scots have to rely on the Duke of Argyll :fence:
Also what about the air force and navy, those oil rigs will need protection.
Just a thought but if this goes ahead what is planned for the armed services.
I know there are Scottish regiments in the army, so will they transfer over or will the Scots have to rely on the Duke of Argyll :fence:
Also what about the air force and navy, those oil rigs will need protection.
That's a good point, I've heard nothing on this from the SNP although I may have mised it :)
Marco, you seem to choose to ignore the fact that Bank of England notes are universally held within the UK as acceptable currency whereas the Scottish bank notes are only universally held within Scotland as acceptable tender. Therefore it is totally unreasonable in my humble opinion, to get arsey because Scottish bank notes are often queried south of the border.
Well, I’m sorry, I disagree. It’s either usable UK currency or it isn’t.
If it is (and in the end my Scottish banknotes are always accepted and presumably cashed by the vendor, thus proving that they’re usable), then staff should be trained to know that it’s usable currency, and thus to recognise it when presented it by a customer.
If it isn’t usable UK currency, then there should be no ‘grey areas’, and that fact should be made crystal clear to everyone.
It is simply a case of familiarity, most people resident south of the border have little or no knowledge or experience of Scottish bank notes….
Sorry, Dave, I don’t buy that for a minute. If that’s true, then that’s their fault for being so insular, and they need to get out more!! ;)
Marco.
But your opinion doesn't make it so dude, oddly enough ;)
Sure, I never said it did, but neither does anyone’s contrary opinion here. An opinion is simply an opinion :)
Marco.
...Therefore it is totally unreasonable in my humble opinion, to get arsey because Scottish bank notes are often queried south of the border. It is simply a case of familiarity, most people resident south of the border have little or no knowledge or experience of Scottish bank notes and are therefore naturally cautious when offered one - simples, end of!!...
That's my opinion too. Their scarcity round here coupled with the fact that there are three different designs for each note (except the pound notes) means traders have little confidence they can spot a dud. I used to work in a rough part of Salford and the run up to Christmas every year saw dodgy types going round the local pubs offering to sell you fake Scottish £20s, usually 3 for £40 ("you'll have no trouble spending 'em mate - no fucker knows what they're supposed to look like").
Keith what’s wrong with training staff to recognise what Scottish banknotes look like and having the necessary equipment in place to identify fakes? I simply don’t see why the inconvenience should be borne by the customer, who simply wants to give you his or her (more often than not) perfectly good money.
Marco.
Keith what’s wrong with training staff to recognise what Scottish banknotes look like and having the necessary equipment in place to identify fakes? I simply don’t see why the inconvenience should be borne by the customer who simply wants to give you his or her (more often than not) perfectly good money.
Marco.
Nothing at all 'wrong' with doing that, but for the minuscule amount of Scottish bank notes they see, it's safer to simply refuse them - because they can!
Keith what’s wrong with training staff to recognise what Scottish banknotes look like and having the necessary equipment in place to identify fakes? I simply don’t see why the inconvenience should be borne by the customer who simply wants to give you his or her (more often than not) perfectly good money.
Marco.
What's the currancy in Wales Marco, the goat?:lol:
How many goat's furra pint BTW:cool:
Marco, we both live in the real world. I realise this but you seem to prefer it to be how you would have it. The fact that most UK residents south of the border are hesitant of accepting Scottish bank notes is no reflection on them. If it reflects on any one it must be on the Scottish banks who have made zero effort (IME) to get their notes universally accepted south of the border. It seems to have been just an ego trip on their behalf to 'cement' their position within the Scottish population - they appear to have not been remotely interested in the rest of the UK recognising their worth.
Now it has become, IMO, a spurious 'argument' to bolster the Yes campaign, as sad reflection on the straws they will attempt to clutch to - how confident and convinced are such people in the 'rightness' of their cause for the majority Scottish population?
Dave, a convinced Scotophile but an equally convinced No believer.
Nothing at all 'wrong' with doing that, but for the minuscule amount of Scottish bank notes they see, it's safer to simply refuse them - because they can!
…and in the process cause great inconvenience to the customer :rolleyes:
What if that’s the only way they’ve got of paying for something that they really need, such as petrol? I’m sorry, but I think that’s really unfair and totally unacceptable.
Anyway, best to just agree to disagree about this, as we’re not going to get anywhere.
Marco.
Marco, we both live in the real world. I realise this but you seem to prefer it to be how you would have it. The fact that most UK residents south of the border are hesitant of accepting Scottish bank notes is no reflection on them.
Well, again I disagree. I would say that it reflects on their ignorance. Not everything in life begins and ends in England! ;)
Also, of course I would prefer it to be how I would have it. Wouldn’t you prefer it to be how YOU would have it? The only way that change is made in life or things improve, is if you refuse to comply with what you think is wrong, and fight the system. You don’t just bow down and accept it! It’s called being a free-thinker.
Long live the non-conformists!! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Sure, I never said it did, but neither does anyone’s contrary opinion here. An opinion is simply an opinion :)
Marco.
Fairy nuff... :D
I will send you that stuff tomorrow dude. Can't be arsed tonight, having too much fun on here... :D
Niento problemos… Oh sorry, that’s not English, so you might not recognise it! :lol: :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Niento problemos… Oh sorry, that’s not English, so you might not recognise it! :lol: :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Cheeky fecker... :ner:
Thought browns speech yesterday was superb
It was very emotive, that’s for sure, although I didn’t agree with a word of it.
Marco.
Just a thought Marco, if it is a YES result tomorrow will the English mods need to produce a passport and pass through customs before entering the mod room? :bag:
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 21:51
Don't see the beef with the bank notes, isn't that what ultraviolet checkers are for?
Just a thought Marco, if it is a YES result tomorrow will the English mods need to produce a passport and pass through customs before entering the mod room? :bag:
No but they’ll have to bend down and kiss my ass - especially Keith, for his cheek! :lol:
Only kidding, mate!!
Marco.
Marco,
Taking it as a fact that the majority of people south of the border would hesitate to accept Scottish pond notes, your comment means that you think the same majority of the population are ignorant - really?
Illuminating to learn what you think of your fellow citizens on this side of the border.
Dave.
Don't see the beef with the bank notes, isn't that what ultraviolet checkers are for?
That just proves it is genuine but unfortunately doesn't promote it to legal tender status :eyebrows:
To be fair it is a very grey area but you can bet your bottom dollar (or should that be Groat) that if Scotland does secede it will be necessary to exchange your [TBA currency] into pound sterling when travelling south of the border... :D
Ali Tait
18-09-2014, 22:13
And vice versa....
Thought browns speech yesterday was superb
I thought Brown was the standout politician in the past two weeks along with Ruth Davidson.
And vice versa....
Indeed... It is impracticalities such as this which are going to cause incovenience to both populations :rolleyes:
StanleyB
18-09-2014, 22:30
Postal costs would eventually go up from the UK to Scotland. Goods leaving UK territory are charged at a different rate.
Marco,
Taking it as a fact that the majority of people south of the border would hesitate to accept Scottish pond notes, your comment means that you think the same majority of the population are ignorant - really?
Illuminating to learn what you think of your fellow citizens on this side of the border.
Dave.
Well, I don’t really know what to say to that. I also think you’re somewhat over-generalising about the English lack of knowledge in this matter. However, if that truly is the case, then I’m afraid that they are ignorant (as in they should bloody well be able to recognise Scottish banknotes). It’s not as if they come from Timbuktu!
They should also accept them, if in fact they are usable UK currency. In reality, it’s the ‘grey areas’, in that respect, as Dave alludes to, which are to blame for the uncertainty. There should be no ‘grey areas'. The rules should be made crystal clear, so that everyone knows exactly what they’re doing!
Marco.
Well, I don’t really know what to say to that. I also think you’re somewhat over-generalising about the English lack of knowledge in this matter. However, if that truly is the case, then I’m afraid that they are ignorant (as in they should bloody well know what a Scottish banknote looks like). It’s not as if it comes from Timbuktu!
Marco.
Until I moved to Northamptonshire (previously of The Garden of England) I was unaware that Scotland even had it's own version of our currency, therefore in the truest sense I was ignorant of it. Had my paper round wages contained a Scots note I would have assumed it was a fake and asked for a real one...
That SNP mobs' coupons are tripping them:lol:
Don't panic, it'll be no; of that I am pretty sure. Not by much; maybe 5%, but enough to scare Westminster into following through on there promises..(that last bit was wishful thinking)
Don't panic, it'll be no; of that I am pretty sure. Not by much; maybe 5%, but enough to scare Westminster into following through on there promises..(that last bit was wishful thinking)
No chance it will be huge for NO.
People shat it and didn't buy into the bullshit.
I predict 60-40 NO-Yes
I've not talked to a single Yes voter in the past week but I've seen plenty of them on the street which I think has frightened people into voting no.
Until I moved to Northamptonshire (previously of The Garden of England) I was unaware that Scotland even had it's own version of our currency, therefore in the truest sense I was ignorant of it. Had my paper round wages contained a Scots note I would have assumed it was a fake and asked for a real one...
Lol - well do you think that your ignorance was acceptable or that you should’ve been better informed? Jeez, this isn’t foreign currency that we’re talking about, but unfortunately maybe it is for some! :doh:
;)
I’ve now been given a whole new insight into the English psyche…..
Marco.
I've only ever seen one Scottish note.
I'd be surprised if 5% of English kids under 20 even know they existed
The Times is saying it's a NO.
The establishment know the result and have done for days.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
Don't panic, it'll be no; of that I am pretty sure. Not by much; maybe 5%, but enough to scare Westminster into following through on there promises..(that last bit was wishful thinking)
Like you, I predicted a ‘No’ vote from the beginning, but we can still live in hope… Incidentally, how many of you watched the video I linked to earlier? There are some interesting stats on there, based on actual facts!
Marco.
I've only ever seen one Scottish note.
I'd be surprised if 5% of English kids under 20 even know they existed
And do you think that is something to be proud about?
Marco.
Eh where do you get the proud bit from
It was not that long ago really the Londoners thought Scots did not have running water, inside toilets and that we all went about in kilts. Most had not been past watford gap. So it is not that surprising really is it.
The Times is saying it's a NO.
The establishment know the result and have done for days.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
Unless they doctored the vote then they dont know...they were just guessing.
It was not that long ago really the Londoners thought Scots did not have running water, inside toilets and that we all went about in kilts. Most had not been past watford gap. So it is not that surprising really is it.
Get that chip off your should mate:D
Lol - well do you think that your ignorance was acceptable or that you should’ve been better informed? Jeez, this isn’t foreign currency that we’re talking about, but unfortunately maybe it is for some! :doh:
;)
I’ve now been given a whole new insight into the English psyche…..
Marco.
Bearing in mind we are talking the late 1970's here so no t'internet and apart from delivering the damn things my 15yr old self wasn't the least bit interested in news nor newspapers. Anywhere north of Watford back then may as well have been marked on a map "Wastelands - There Be Dragons" :lol:
Eh where do you get the proud bit from
I’m just asking a question. Do you think that the statistic you quoted is a good thing or a bad thing?
Personally, I’d have been ashamed if I couldn’t have identified an English banknote, when I lived up in Scotland, so I simply assumed that it might be the same the other way round, given that the two countries aren’t exactly far apart.
I’ve got to admit that I’m rather shocked at what I’m hearing here!
Marco.
Unless they doctored the vote then they dont know...they were just guessing.
They know all right.
This is politics, serious politics, do you really think that salmond was gonna win vs Cameron, it was no contest mate.
Cameron ergo the UK government wasn't taken a fall for Scotland it really is that simple.
Marco let it go mate:D
Seriously Marco all joking aside there are 50million people in England who really don't give a shit about Scottish bank notes and why would they?
Put yourself in an English guy in Devon's position getting a BOS tenner in the boozer with his change, can you really blame the guy for telling the barman to GTF with the note?
I wouldn't want one in that position cause at the end of the day money is money and you have to go to somewhere in Devon to spend it don't you?
I’m just asking a question. Do you think the statistic you quoted is a good thing or a bad thing?
Personally, I’d have been ashamed if I couldn’t have identified an English banknote, when I lived up in Scotland, so I simply assumed that it might be the same the other way round, given that the two countries aren’t exactly far apart.
I’ve got to admit that I’m rather shocked at what I’m hearing here!
Marco.
They know all right.
This is politics, serious politics, do you really think that salmond was gonna win vs Cameron, it was no contest mate.
Cameron ergo the UK government wasn't taken a fall for Scotland it really is that simple.
So you are saying they cheated, and doctored the vote. that is the only way they can know and be sure.
Unless schooling in England has changed,you were never taught about Scottish currency.
And unless Scottish notes are in your change it is highly possible you would not be aware they existed.
Bearing in mind we are talking the late 1970's here so no t'internet and apart from delivering the damn things my 15yr old self wasn't the least bit interested in news nor newspapers. Anywhere north of Watford back then may as well have been marked on a map "Wastelands - There Be Dragons" :lol:
Lol…. You see I think that’s the difference. I travelled all over the place (from the late 60s onwards) when i was a kid, so I was used to handling all sorts of different currencies, including foreign ones, on our frequent family trips abroad. It seems that English people were/are a little more insular. At least, from the comments here, that’s the way it’s coming across…...
Marco.
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