View Full Version : John Wood Audio, a tale of woe
It would seem that you have a choice to make Geoff. Take up Anthony's kind offer to diagnose the issues with the amp and perhaps fix it, in which case you should end up with what you wanted initially, or you can continue to pursue Mr Wood for the money via the company you mention. Either way there will be extra costs involved. I think I'd bite the bullet if I was in your situation and send the amp off to Anthony, it would be far less stressful plus I'd have a properly functioning amp to do with what I wished at the end of it. One thing is for sure, Anthony's provenance and reputation are solid which would definitely help your cause should you choose to sell it on ;)
brian2957
15-10-2014, 14:01
Chances are that it will come back from Anthony better than it would have been originally.
Kinda what I was alluding to... :D
I still can't decide on the way forward, however, I contacted the company that allocates cases to the High Court Enforcement Agents featured in the television programme 'Can't Pay ? We'll Take It Away' and the following is part of their reply.
Dear Geoffrey,
Thank you for your enquiry.
In order for us to obtain a High Court Writ of Control the County Court Judgment needs to be under 6 years old and for a value of not less than £600.00 including Court costs.
Should you wish to proceed you will need to complete the attached Instruction form and return this to us along with a copy of the County Court Judgment and anything else that you feel may help our High Court Enforcement Agent in his pursuit of the debt. We will also require a Court fee payment of £60.00 per case.
Once we receive your instruction we will obtain the sealed Court paperwork for you and allocate the case out to one of our High Court Enforcement Agents for execution.
The Debtor pays our fees in full.
If we are unsuccessful there will be a cost of £90.00 inclusive of VAT, however the Writ is ‘live’ for a year so we do always try our best to obtain payment from the Debtor.
Should you not have an enforcement address for the Defendant we are able to undertake an address trace for £25.00 plus VAT on 'no trace, no fee' basis or an in-depth trace for £45.00 plus VAT again on a 'no trace, no fee' basis.
I have attached a trace instruction form should you need to use this service.
Should you have any additional questions or queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards
As much as it'll grate to let him away with it you really need to decide if you want splash out another few hundred and try to get something back or just try and get the amp checked . if it is readily repairable then it may be best to use that cash to get what you actually wanted in the first place. A working amp.
A very generous offer from Anthony and there is no doubt that if you go down that route you will, if belatedly, end up with what you wanted in the first place. It just galls me to see that chancer getting away with it but it looks like he is a total deadbeat with no assets worth taking so maybe best to draw a line at this point.
istari_knight
15-10-2014, 15:23
As others have suggested make this decision with your head, not your heart.
Send it to A, once sorted you'll either have a cracking amp or sell it on to recoup most if not all what you've laid out... Forget JW, his reputation is shot to pieces - This thread has been viewed 17,681 times :eyebrows:
anthonyTD
15-10-2014, 16:51
No worries Geoff,
Just let me know, you can pm me. I can totally understand if you would rather continue down the road in getting your money back, all this has' as we can now see left a very sour taste in the mouth.:(
A...
No apology is necessary Anthony but thank you anyway. I may take you up on your offer in respect of the amp in the future, thank you again.
Berni217
15-10-2014, 17:16
It would seem that you have a choice to make Geoff. Take up Anthony's kind offer to diagnose the issues with the amp and perhaps fix it, in which case you should end up with what you wanted initially, or you can continue to pursue Mr Wood for the money via the company you mention. Either way there will be extra costs involved. I think I'd bite the bullet if I was in your situation and send the amp off to Anthony, it would be far less stressful plus I'd have a properly functioning amp to do with what I wished at the end of it. One thing is for sure, Anthony's provenance and reputation are solid which would definitely help your cause should you choose to sell it on ;)
Hi,
I have read the thread and feel for Geoff. Repairing the amp would be a good starting point.
However, do not forget that this amp is not what Geoff ordered nor paid for in the first place. I do not know Wood products but selling this already second hand and lesser amp would only provide a fraction of the costs paid.
Personally, by principle, I would escalate the case to ensure that the vendor does not do it to someone else.
Cheers,
B.
Thank you, that's a kind offer Tony but I couldn't possibly accept.
No worries Geoff, best of luck anyway.
Geoff, I agree with Berni and I'm quite prepared to pay the £45 plus vat for the in-depth trace.
There's nothing to lose is there, if they don't find the guy then there's nothing to pay if they find him then you can move on to the next level.
Tony
I still can't decide on the way forward, however, I contacted the company that allocates cases to the High Court Enforcement Agents featured in the television programme 'Can't Pay ? We'll Take It Away' and the following is part of their reply.
Dear Geoffrey,
Thank you for your enquiry.
In order for us to obtain a High Court Writ of Control the County Court Judgment needs to be under 6 years old and for a value of not less than £600.00 including Court costs.
Should you wish to proceed you will need to complete the attached Instruction form and return this to us along with a copy of the County Court Judgment and anything else that you feel may help our High Court Enforcement Agent in his pursuit of the debt. We will also require a Court fee payment of £60.00 per case.
Once we receive your instruction we will obtain the sealed Court paperwork for you and allocate the case out to one of our High Court Enforcement Agents for execution.
The Debtor pays our fees in full.
If we are unsuccessful there will be a cost of £90.00 inclusive of VAT, however the Writ is ‘live’ for a year so we do always try our best to obtain payment from the Debtor.
Should you not have an enforcement address for the Defendant we are able to undertake an address trace for £25.00 plus VAT on 'no trace, no fee' basis or an in-depth trace for £45.00 plus VAT again on a 'no trace, no fee' basis.
I have attached a trace instruction form should you need to use this service.
Should you have any additional questions or queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards
Eagle owl
16-10-2014, 05:43
Geoff, I agree with Berni and I'm quite prepared to pay the £45 plus vat for the in-depth trace.
There's nothing to lose is there, if they don't find the guy then there's nothing to pay if they find him then you can move on to the next level.
Tony
Thank you once again for your kind offer Tony it's very much appreciated but again I cannot accept. I'm not wealthy but also I don't need to choose between eating or heating as some retired people do. I can afford to spend a bit more money on tracing Wood etc but I fear It will be money down the drain. The amplifier I ordered from Wood should have been delivered at the end of December 2012 but it wasn't, I've been stressed about the situation on and off ever since, at the end of November this year (2014) it will be two years since I placed the order. I'm still tempted to break it up and dispose of it and give it no more thought. To be honest, it's a very heavy beast (40kg) and I just don't fancy lifting it again. From age 17 to 21 I worked as a roof tiler and weighed a little over 9 stone, in those days I could lift a 112 pounds bag of cement from the floor and put it on my shoulder. I retired in 2005 aged 58.5, the last eighteen years of my working life were in an office and the heaviest thing I lifted was a stapler. :lol:
Ali Tait
16-10-2014, 06:40
If you can't bring yourself to keep the amp, having it repaired and selling it on would seem to be the best way of recouping some money.
Thank you once again for your kind offer Tony it's very much appreciated but again I cannot accept. I'm not wealthy but also I don't need to choose between eating or heating as some retired people do. I can afford to spend a bit more money on tracing Wood etc but I fear It will be money down the drain. The amplifier I ordered from Wood should have been delivered at the end of December 2012 but it wasn't, I've been stressed about the situation on and off ever since, at the end of November this year (2014) it will be two years since I placed the order. I'm still tempted to break it up and dispose of it and give it no more thought. To be honest, it's a very heavy beast (40kg) and I just don't fancy lifting it again. From age 17 to 21 I worked as a roof tiler and weighed a little over 9 stone, in those days I could lift a 112 pounds bag of cement from the floor and put it on my shoulder. I retired in 2005 aged 58.5, the last eighteen years of my working life were in an office and the heaviest thing I lifted was a stapler. :lol:
Hi Geoff, best of luck mate that's a long time to be dealing with pish like this.
I had one that lasted a year and involved an appearance at court along with the defender and my wife who was there to give me moral support which in the end was complety futile and the case ended without going back to court (I got nothing nothing) so totally understand where your coming from.
Tony
If you can't bring yourself to keep the amp, having it repaired and selling it on would seem to be the best way of recouping some money.
Assuming you tell the whole story to your buyer.
A friend of mine has once the same kind of issue with a small amplifier maker in France. The guy came to his place with a super-loaded device, fully equipped with NOS valves and SOTA trannies.
The sound was delightful and the unit was an incredible match with my friend's speakers.
He then ordered "the same one".
Guess what happened next ? The unit came with standard valves and trannies and obviously, the sound was far from being as good as the demo model.
My friend asked to buy the demo unit , but his request was turned down.
Many mails, calls after, this story lead to a litigation in court.
Assuming you tell the whole story to your buyer.
It's all here in black and white Didier so it would be difficult to hide the fact and besides, if Geoff agrees to let AnthonyTD breath new life into it what's not to like? :cool:
istari_knight
16-10-2014, 09:22
This thread is the 4th result when you google "John Wood Audio" :)
Put it behind you Geoff and move on. Life's too short and it'll only eat away at you if you carry on. I once lost £1500 to a scammer and was well pissed but that's life. Occasionally shit happens, but onwards and upwards good Sir.
Lodgesound
17-10-2014, 19:55
If someone was to hypothetically make an offer to fix your amplifier for no charge including collection and redelivery with a small charge only being incurred on satisfactory receipt and in-situ calibration of the machine what would be your response Geoff?
I live quite near you and the policy of my company may enable me to offer some assistance.
PhilofCas
17-10-2014, 20:10
Geoff,
Please don't break it up and dispose of it, I think you'd regret it later. Simply get it looked at/repaired by Anthony (or Stewarts off above), then enjoy it, I dare say it'll be a v good amp. despite your problems so far, I think that's the best way of moving on.
All the best,
Phil.
anthonyTD
18-10-2014, 12:07
Thats A fantastic offer stuart! :)
If someone was to hypothetically make an offer to fix your amplifier for no charge including collection and redelivery with a small charge only being incurred on satisfactory receipt and in-situ calibration of the machine what would be your response Geoff?
I live quite near you and the policy of my company may enable me to offer some assistance.
Eagle owl
18-10-2014, 12:24
If someone was to hypothetically make an offer to fix your amplifier for no charge including collection and redelivery with a small charge only being incurred on satisfactory receipt and in-situ calibration of the machine what would be your response Geoff?
I live quite near you and the policy of my company may enable me to offer some assistance.
Hi Stewart,
you're a real gent, that's an unbelievably kind and generous offer but I couldn't possibly accept. I'm still unsure what my next step will be, however, the one thing I am certain about is that even if I get the amplifier fixed I have no intention of keeping it even though it may be a superb piece of kit. Many thanks again and best wishes.
Geoff.
Hi Stewart,
you're a real gent, that's an unbelievably kind and generous offer but I couldn't possibly accept. I'm still unsure what my next step will be, however, the one thing I am certain about is that even if I get the amplifier fixed I have no intention of keeping it even though it may be a superb piece of kit. Many thanks again and best wishes.
Geoff.
So why wouldn't you want it fixed Geoff? Even if you have no intention of keeping the amp, having it fixed would allow you to move it on and recoup some of your losses. I have been sympathetic to your plight up until now however you appear to be determined to see this through to the bitter end and frankly I honestly believe you are unlikely to see a penny of what you are owed. I'd also be keen to know what you intend to do with the amplifier if you are recompensed? I hope it is not your intention to take Mr Wood to the cleaners AND keep the amp because I tell you now sir, if that is what you are angling for then you've lost me.
Gordon Steadman
18-10-2014, 17:00
If you don't take up this offer, hopefully, it is just because of misplaced pride. I would find it hard to turn down such a kind offer, considering the way it was made. It seems the obvious way of moving on to me.
awkwardbydesign
18-10-2014, 17:32
I hope it is not your intention to take Mr Wood to the cleaners AND keep the amp because I tell you now sir, if that is what you are angling for then you've lost me.
Didn't he just say he has no intention of keeping it?
skimminstones
18-10-2014, 19:21
im struggling to see why you wouldnt take up one of the kind offers of getting the amp fixed frankly. You wanted an amp, its not what you thought but it will be after one of the two people that have offered look at it for you. You'll then have the amp you wanted, working.
Struggling to see why you couldnt possibly accept to be honest.
im struggling to see why you wouldnt take up one of the kind offers of getting the amp fixed frankly.
I have to agree. I’m also with Dave (Synsei).
Geoff, I’m sorry to say it, but the only logical reason I can see for you not accepting (now various) very kind offers to fix the amp, even free of charge, is that you’ve got something to hide and that things are not quite as you describe, which now lends some credence to what John Wood has been saying about you being a ‘chancer’…
I’m afraid I can’t help but think that now.
Marco.
Eagle owl
18-10-2014, 20:43
I have to agree. I’m also with Dave (Synsei).
Geoff, I’m sorry to say it, but the only logical reason I can see for you not accepting (now various) very kind offers to fix the amp, even free of charge, is that you’ve got something to hide and that things are not quite as you describe, which now lends some credence to what John Wood has been saying about you being a ‘chancer’…
I’m afraid I can’t help but think that now.
Marco.
Marco, I'm surprised and saddened you've said such a thing. I'm not a chancer and I've nothing to hide, the tale of woe I've posted on this forum is the complete and full truth. Wood ripped me off, cheated me, mugged me, call it what you will.
I don't want the amplifier, whether repaired or not, it's a constant reminder of the whole unsavoury episode. I've fairly recently bought Glen Croft pre and power amplifiers, I also have a PrimaLuna Prologue 2 and a Harman Kardon HK990, all three are excellent. If you still doubt me Marco, give me your address and I'll pack the Wood amplifier up and arrange for a courier to deliver it to you, it will be yours to keep and do as you wish with it as I don't want the bloody thing.
Hi Geoff,
Well, I simply have to be honest, as anyone else would’ve jumped at the offer (in particular) that Stewart made, so your non-acceptance of that has raised suspicions about your claims.
Anyway, ok, I’ll PM you my address and you can send the amp to me. When I receive it, next time I’m down at Anthony’s place (which won’t be long), I’ll take it to him, and if he can fix it, we’ll sell the amp on and give the money to charity.
How does that sound? :)
Marco.
Eagle owl
18-10-2014, 21:01
Hi Geoff,
Well, I simply have to be honest, as anyone else would’ve jumped at the offer (in particular) that Stewart made, so your non-acceptance of that has raised suspicions about your claims.
Anyway, ok, I’ll PM you my address and you can send the amp to me. When I receive it, next time I’m down at Anthony’s place (which won’t be long), I’ll take it to him, and if he can fix it, we’ll sell the amp on and give the money to charity.
How does that sound? :)
Marco. That's an excellent idea, perhaps the charity could be Cancer Research UK ? When you pm me your address could you suggest a suitable courier please ?
awkwardbydesign
18-10-2014, 21:05
Hi Geoff,
Well, I simply have to be honest, as anyone else would’ve jumped at the offer (in particular) that Stewart made, so your non-acceptance of that has raised suspicions about your claims.
Anyway, ok, I’ll PM you my address and you can send the amp to me. When I receive it, next time I’m down at Anthony’s place (which won’t be long), I’ll take it to him, and if he can fix it, we’ll sell the amp on and give the money to charity.
How does that sound? :)
Marco.
Jeez, I can't believe you people. Can you really not understand he's so sick of it all he just couldn't bear to see it every day? And as I recall, he posted here as a warning to others, not asking for anyone to fix it up. It's all you lot who got into that!
In terms of a courier, I’d take the advice here of those who use them for hi-fi transporting purposes, as I don’t. Perhaps, Stewart, for example, could recommend one?
Cancer Research would indeed be a fine choice of charity. PM’ing you my addy now... :)
Marco.
tommy6206
18-10-2014, 21:14
well what would you lot do if "Orderd and paid for a new BMW and was sent a faulty use metro" Have some one fix it for free and be happy or demand the new BMW or a full refund with no more cost to you..
Simples..
In terms of a courier, I’d take the advice here of those who use them for hi-fi transporting purposes, as I don’t. Perhaps, Stewart, for example, could recommend one?
Cancer Research would indeed be a fine choice of charity. PM’ing you my addy now... :)
Marco.
UPS for a heavy job like that.... needs to be very well packed, and double boxed. each box with corner potection.
Some pish on this thread today.
Honest to God.
I wouldn't want the fecking thing either.
Tony
Some pish on this thread today.
Honest to God.
I wouldn't want the fecking thing either.
Tony
Therefore ya fix it and sell it on and thus recoup some of your hard earned - Cot/nose/spite/face comes to mind... :ner:
Sigh, yet another example of the Court system being less than useless.
Geoffrey, I would not have handled this the way you did but you do not deserve criticism. In fact I think you should be applauded for this approach you are taking. It will put an end to what is truly a tale of woe, but equally important is that you gain a real satisfaction in knowing that some good has come of it.
Sigh, yet another example of the Court system being less than useless.
Geoffrey, I would not have handled this the way you did but you do not deserve criticism. In fact I think you should be applauded for this approach you are taking. It will put an end to what is truly a tale of woe, but equally important is that you gain a real satisfaction in knowing that some good has come of it.
The thing is Andrei it is obvious Mr Wood is going to fight this all the way, and it has got to the point now where Geoff has had to pose the the question; is chasing this guy further into the legal maze actually going to be productive? Personally I think Geoff would be wasting his time and potentially, his money. I was being critical because the obvious solution was staring Geoff in the face.
Anyway, it seems now that Geoff has accepted this and is willing to have the amp fixed so it can be sold with the proceeds going to charity, which I admit is a nice touch as long as it ends there...
Canetoad
19-10-2014, 02:08
Marco, I'm surprised and saddened you've said such a thing. I'm not a chancer and I've nothing to hide, the tale of woe I've posted on this forum is the complete and full truth. Wood ripped me off, cheated me, mugged me, call it what you will.
I don't want the amplifier, whether repaired or not, it's a constant reminder of the whole unsavoury episode. I've fairly recently bought Glen Croft pre and power amplifiers, I also have a PrimaLuna Prologue 2 and a Harman Kardon HK990, all three are excellent. If you still doubt me Marco, give me your address and I'll pack the Wood amplifier up and arrange for a courier to deliver it to you, it will be yours to keep and do as you wish with it as I don't want the bloody thing.
So Geoff,
What do you think of the Crofts? :)
Audio Al
19-10-2014, 03:51
it will be yours to keep and do as you wish with it as I don't want the bloody thing.
If Marco does not want it keep me in mind :D
I will give it a home and get it sorted ;)
Berni217
19-10-2014, 06:20
That's an excellent idea, perhaps the charity could be Cancer Research UK ? When you pm me your address could you suggest a suitable courier please ?
Hi Geoff,
I cannot believe what I am reading.
Have you decided whether you want to escalate the matter further? If so, it looks like to me that you are about to give away the (main) piece of evidence to your case.
B.
The thing is Andrei it is obvious Mr Wood is going to fight this all the way, and it has got to the point now where Geoff has had to pose the the question; is chasing this guy further into the legal maze actually going to be productive? Personally I think Geoff would be wasting his time and potentially, his money. I was being critical because the obvious solution was staring Geoff in the face.
Anyway, it seems now that Geoff has accepted this and is willing to have the amp fixed so it can be sold with the proceeds going to charity, which I admit is a nice touch as long as it ends there...
Mr Wood doesn't have to try too hard to "fight it all the way" when the bailiffs are content to take Mr or Mrs Bloggs word for it that the debtor no longer lives there and the bailiff can return the warrant and "write another one" off his books. If he is seasoned at this he will know that more money will need to be spent to try to get to him and secure redress. If you know the ropes then you can often get away with doing nothing.
Therefore ya fix it and sell it on and thus recoup some of your hard earned - Cot/nose/spite/face comes to mind... :ner:
I think you owe Geoff an apology for casting aspersions Dave.
There are two people involved in this sad case one of them has taken money under false pretences, supplied an inferior product and tried to conceal that fact, he has been found by a court to be a lying thieving cnut and has done a 'runner' and he also refused point blank to 'communicate' with anyone.
The other guy has been cheated and conned out of a considerable sum of money and he has had to go to court not once but twice to obtain legal redress, he has then been subjected on a public forum to all sorts of abuse and has had accusations thrown at him such as he is 'difficult, ' he is at it', he's a liar, ' he has has an agenda' what ever the feck that means? Of course he has a fecking agenda he has been taken to the cleaners by a conman, I would have a fucking agenda too but we won't go into that on a public forum.
There is only one guy communicating on this forum out of the two people involved and it sure as feck ain't the rip-off merchant who has obviously been over this course a few times in the past judging by his behaviour in this particular case.
Rant over.
Tony
I think you owe Geoff an apology for casting aspersions Dave.
There are two people involved in this sad case one of them has taken money under false pretences, supplied an inferior product and tried to conceal that fact, he has been found by a court to be a lying thieving cnut and has done a 'runner' and he also refused point blank to 'communicate' with anyone.
The other guy has been cheated, conned out of a considerable sum of monet and has had to go to court twice to obtain redress, he has then been subjected on a public forum to all sorts of abuse and has had accusations thrown at him such as he is 'difficult, 'at it', a liar, 'has an agenda' what ever the feck that means? Of course he has a fecking agenda he has been taken to the cleaners by a conman, I would have a fucking agenda too but we won't go into that on a public forum.
There is only one guy communicating on this forum out of the two people involved and it sure as feck ain't the rip-off merchant.
Rant over.
Tony
Sometimes a bit of harsh love is necessary to lay the bones of a situation bare Tony, having said that I apologise if I came over a bit strong Geoff, this has stirred up some very unpleasant memories for me. Trust me I know what Geoff is going through, I've been there myself mate and as such it is easy to let the scenario eat you up inside to the point where one can behave quite irrationally at times. My sympathies do NOT lie with John Wood in this case, it would appear he was unable to build a new amp for the price quoted and he should have been honest about this right from the start. Maybe he was just trying to please the customer, only he knows for sure. Whatever his initial intentions it has resulted in this almighty cock-up which I would guess has permanently damaged Woods reputation and left his customer feeling frustrated and disillusioned.
Anyhoo, a solution of sorts has been identified so hopefully Geoff will be able to draw a line under this soon...
Sometimes a bit of harsh love is necessary to lay the bones of a situation bare Tony, having said that I apologise if I came over a bit strong Geoff, this has stirred up some very unpleasant memories for me. Trust me I know what Geoff is going through, I've been there myself mate and as such it is easy to let the scenario eat you up inside to the point where one can behave quite irrationally at times. My sympathies do NOT lie with John Wood in this case, it would appear he was unable to build a new amp for the price quoted and he should have been honest about this right from the start. Maybe he was just trying to please the customer, only he knows for sure. Whatever his initial intentions it has resulted in this almighty cock-up which I would guess has permanently damaged Woods reputation and left his customer feeling frustrated and disillusioned.
Anyhoo, a solution of sorts has been identified so hopefully Geoff will be able to draw a line under this soon...
A solution hasn't been found Geoff has decided to give almost £1500 to charity, he's still down a load of dosh and grief.
Meanwhile the culprit has fecked off and left him (Geoff) to it.
Unbelievable.
Tony
A solution hasn't been found Geoff has decided to give almost £1500 to charity, he's still down a load of dosh and grief.
Meanwhile the culprit has fecked off and left him (Geoff) to it.
Unbelievable.
Tony
In an ideal world the solution you seek would be a given Tony, unfortunately this isn't an ideal world...
Gordon Steadman
19-10-2014, 14:51
I think we should be a little less ready to slag off either party in this case - some of the language used is excessive. Whilst most of us will believe the OP, we have no proof of the situation but are taking him at his word.
Although the response from Mr.Wood was somewhat short of explanation, there is a small chance that there is more to this than meets the eye and that there is indeed an agenda. I am not suggesting that this is actually the case.
However, whilst the solution might appear unsatisfactory and the OP ends up out of pocket, there really does come the time when you have to move on. "I'll get the bastard" is not always the best solution to a problem and can just mean more wringing of hands and stress.
I think we should be a little less ready to slag off either party in this case - some of the language used is excessive. Whilst most of us will believe the OP, we have no proof of the situation but are taking him at his word.
Although the response from Mr.Wood was somewhat short of explanation, there is a small chance that there is more to this than meets the eye and that there is indeed an agenda. I am not suggesting that this is actually the case.
However, whilst the solution might appear unsatisfactory and the OP ends up out of pocket, there really does come the time when you have to move on. "I'll get the bastard" is not always the best solution to a problem and can just mean more wringing of hands and stress.
Gordon a UK court has ruled in the OP's favour.
There is nothing more to this than meets the eye and we are not taking him at his word, presumably Marco has seen the court papers before allowing the thread to start?
Tony
Gordon Steadman
19-10-2014, 16:11
Gordon a UK court has ruled in the OP's favour.
There is nothing more to this than meets the eye and we are not taking him at his word, presumably Marco has seen the court papers before allowing the thread to start?
Tony
That was my point. I haven't seen proof of any court case or bailiff's records. If Marco has then fair enough. I wasn't suggesting that the OP is trying it on merely that we should be careful about accusations that we are not 100% sure are true, even if there could be the slightest doubt. I have known people that will go to extraordinary lengths to stitch someone up after falling out with them for some reason.
The OP should not take this as an accusation, I merely encourage a cooler approach.
Thetiminator
19-10-2014, 16:25
That was my point. I haven't seen proof of any court case or bailiff's records. If Marco has then fair enough. I wasn't suggesting that the OP is trying it on merely that we should be careful about accusations that we are not 100% sure are true, even if there could be the slightest doubt. I have known people that will go to extraordinary lengths to stitch someone up after falling out with them for some reason.
The OP should not take this as an accusation, I merely encourage a cooler approach.
Have you read this thread? I'd suggest taking a read through, specifically the court judgements, Marco's attempt to mediate which fell on deaf ears and Mr Woods post that proved to be liberally sprinkled with porky pies.....
Gordon Steadman
19-10-2014, 16:48
Have you read this thread? I'd suggest taking a read through, specifically the court judgements, Marco's attempt to mediate which fell on deaf ears and Mr Woods post that proved to be liberally sprinkled with porky pies.....
From the beginning. If you will point me toward the scans of any official documents, I will be grateful.
I repeat, I am not actually accusing the OP of anything. We have all accepted his version of events but.....Mr Woods is being accused of being the biggest scumbag in hifi and I feel that is ill advised without 'certain' knowledge that there is no alternative scenario.
That was my point. I haven't seen proof of any court case or bailiff's records. If Marco has then fair enough.
Those appear to be genuine, Gordon, as I have email copies of the relevant paperwork.
Guys, I think we’re fast reaching the stage now of closing the thread, until such times as I’ve received the amp from Geoff, and can conclude matters from there, lest we continue going round in circles attempting on whom to apportion blame.
Marco.
Gordon Steadman
19-10-2014, 16:52
Those appear to be genuine, Gordon, as I have email copies of the relevant paperwork.
Guys, I think we’re fast reaching the stage now of closing the thread, until such times as I’ve received the amp from Geoff, and can conclude matters from there, lest we continue going round in circles attempting on whom to apportion blame.
Marco.
Thanks Marco - discussion over.
From the beginning. If you will point me toward the scans of any official documents, I will be grateful.
I repeat, I am not actually accusing the OP of anything. We have all accepted his version of events but.....Mr Woods is being accused of being the biggest scumbag in hifi and I feel that is ill advised without 'certain' knowledge that there is no alternative scenario.
Gordon the guy has been found liable in a court of Law in the UK and the language I'm using is perefectly acceptable and legally fine too.
My defence would be veritas or truth.
The judgement is a matter of public record.
There is absolutely no ambiguity here.
On that note, this thread is now closed until I receive the amp from Geoff, whereupon the thread will be reopened and updated accordingly, along with following the matter to its (now decided) conclusion, of selling the amp in question and donating the funds to Cancer Research.
Thanks to all who have participated :)
Marco.
Just to let folks know that I’ve now received the amp from Geoff, which will be repaired and then in due course auctioned off for charity (on AoS). I will update the thread when that happens :)
Marco.
Audio Al
01-04-2015, 19:34
Any update on this ? its around 5 months ago now :scratch:
Anthony hasn't been keeping too well, so hasn't had a chance to sort the amp yet, daftee. Don't worry, when there are any updates on the matter I'll let folks know! :)
Marco.
Audio Al
02-04-2015, 05:42
Marco
If Anthony is out of action I can recomend
Graeme ( Valvebloke ) AmpRegen
http://www.ampregen.com/ampregenrestore.html
He has repaired a valve amp for me :)
No worries, mate. I'll pass that onto him, although I'm sure he'll get onto it as soon as he can :)
Marco.
anthonyTD
03-04-2015, 12:10
Hi All,
Just an update, unfortunetly i havent had chance to inspect the amp in question yet, been very busy the last few months, and having to deal with a long standing illness, anyway, i am hoping to get to it soon, once i have inspected it, i will of course put up a full report of my findings here for all those interested!:)
Anthony,TD...
Audio Al
03-04-2015, 12:14
Hi All,
Just an update, unfortunetly i havent had chance to inspect the amp in question yet, been very busy the last few months, and having to deal with a long standing illness, anyway, i am hoping to get to it soon, once i have inspected it, i will of course put up a full report of my findings here for all those interested!:)
Anthony,TD...
OK
Looking forward to the findings / report and auction :)
anthonyTD
14-05-2015, 13:00
Hi All,
Well, its been a while, firstly i Appologise for the wait, at last i can confirm that this morning i unpacked the John Wood amplifier for the first time, and it is now sat on my bench, i will follow up later today with an indepth explanation of my first impresions, and findings.
Anthony,TD...
Audio Al
14-05-2015, 13:01
Hi All,
Well, its been a while, firstly i Appologise for the wait, at last i can confirm that this morning i unpacked the John Wood amplifier for the first time, and it is now sat on my bench, i will follow up later today with an indepth explanation of my first impresions, and findings.
Anthony,TD...
Woo Hoo , look forward 2 this :)
anthonyTD
14-05-2015, 14:08
Hi All,
After initial unpack, and visual inspection, unfortunately, it became obvious that this amplifier was not treated kindly in transit, the transformers on this amplifier are very heavy, and therefore they’re weight and hefty size have buckled the chassis slightly, and it has distorted significantly in certain areas etc.
Now I have had chance to inspect the amplifier, I would first like to put to bed some of the aspersions that may have been banded about at the time AOS members first read about this amplifier.
First, it is not a modified Chinese amplifier, [even I was somewhat originally under this impression]
Secondly, it is a true hard wired amp.
Thirdly, it uses high quality components.
[refer to picks I will post later]
The first thing I did after getting the amp on the bench was to test the valves.
The amp uses 2 x ECC82/12AU7 in the first stages, 2x 6SN7 in the second, and driver stage, And 4 x KT88 in the output stage. The output stage is grid biased, with individual bias setting controls on each output valve, which in some respects negates the need for closely matched output valves.
The amp also has adjustment for balancing the driver circuits, which offers the advantage of being able to adjust the signal being fed to each output valve quite accurately , which in turn helps in reducing the over-all distortion.
The gain stage valves all have DC supplied heaters to ensure low noise.
On first inspection of the four output valves [Sovtek KT88] I found that three of them had signs of being severely over-run, ie; the logo’s which are usually prominently red on these valves had turned almost white on three! This is what usually happens with output valves when either’ the bias has not been set correctly, or is non existent, or a fault has developed in the valve itself. After testing all four, it was found that three did indeed have issues. Next I powered up the amp [no output valves fitted at this stage] via a variac on the mains input, and measured the voltages everywhere on the circuit as I increased the input voltage. Everything seemed fine, even all the bias voltages were there on the output valve bases, a good sign.
I decided to discard the four original output valves,[for obvious reasons]and instead’ I fitted a good tested set of 6550’s I had lying around, that would be good enough to put in for the first power up and test etc.
Next, I wired the amp up to some dummy loads, a scope, and signal generator and switched the amp on.
Well, I am happy to report that after initial warm up, the amp came on fine, with no drama’s, and tested very well on both outputs, with a flat frequency response in excess of 50hz to 50khz tested at quarter power output.
This amplifier runs quite a high Anode/plate voltage, in excess of 600v, however, it runs the screen grids at about half that of the Anodes, this is usually a good compromise for sound and power output.
My first impressions with this amplifier are; it is very heavy, always a good sign with valve amps.
It has been put together very well, with real thought gone into the layout, and use of high quality components in key areas etc.
It is mechanically quiet when powered up.
All in all, I am pleasantly surprised by this amplifier, in its quality of build, its component content, and test wise.
I will leave it on for a while longer to see if it develops any issues, but so far, so good!
Anthony,TD…
Audio Al
14-05-2015, 14:14
Great work Anthony
I do hope we find the real reason and justice is done
anthonyTD
14-05-2015, 16:15
Hi All,
I have now re-opend this thread, and all recent, and therefore relevant info will be transfered here!
New posts start from 312 above.
PICTURES OF THE AMPLIFIER
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/VJenXL.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/Kgmlut.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/909/SogDAt.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/NoFOir.jpg
sq225917
14-05-2015, 18:17
What a very well made looking thing that is. I'd give it space on the shelf, lovely tag strip hard wired construction.
So does the bloody thing hum like the OP stated it did or was he just looking to send it back at no cost to him.?
Gordon Steadman
14-05-2015, 20:05
What a very well made looking thing that is. I'd give it space on the shelf, lovely tag strip hard wired construction.
So does the bloody thing hum like the OP stated it did or was he just looking to send it back at no cost to him.?
Doesn't look bad for a second hand amp does it?
Wakefield Turntables
14-05-2015, 20:18
Looks pretty good to me, mind you we havent heard the full report from Anthony yet.
What a very well made looking thing that is. I'd give it space on the shelf, lovely tag strip hard wired construction.
So does the bloody thing hum like the OP stated it did or was he just looking to send it back at no cost to him.?
No -the OP shipped the amp to Anthony at his own expense so that it can be fixed and sold for charity.
anthonyTD
15-05-2015, 09:35
Hi All,
Well, this amp has sat on my bench now for a good few hours without an issue.
There is currently no objectional hum,in fact, it is very quiet, even on my bench' which usualy amplifies mechanical hum due to it being hollow beneath!
As to the original fault, i am now quite sure that the issues experienced by the OP where genuine, but were down not to any design, or build issue, but output valve failier, posibly due to transit damage or, posibly due to this paticular set of output valves not being able to withstand the high'ish HT voltages etc.
Either way, my own feelings after having inspected, and tested this amplifier are mixed between admiration for the guy who built it, and sadness for both he, and the OP, due to the whole sorry situation.:(
The more i look at this amp, the harder it is [for me] to understand how the guy made any money from making it! Having been involved in this industry for over 20 years now, i am fully aware of how much time and effort it takes to build something like this, also' the costs involved in sourcing all the parts etc.
Its not the most attractive looking amp out there, [IMHO] but then, i imagine looks were secondary, its all about whats inside on this occasion.
Over the next few days, i am going to further test, it, and also' try and sort out as best i can the issues to the casework, then, once i am happy with it, i will inform Marco, and then he can set the ball rolling as far as getting it Auctioned off to the next lucky owner! :)
Anthony,TD...
Firebottle
15-05-2015, 09:49
Good work Anthony. I was also impressed with your simple but detailed description of testing the amp, so that others of a less technical bent could understand what's involved and what you have done.
:thumbsup:
Either way, my own feelings after having inspected, and tested this amplifier are mixed between admiration for the guy who built it, and sadness for both he, and the OP, due to the whole sorry situation.:(
It is a sad situation routed in communication issues rather than anything underhand. Probably both sides had their role to play in Communication Breakdown, does it play Led Zep well?
southall-1998
15-05-2015, 09:50
Nice looking amp. How much does it weigh in KG?
S.
Audio Al
15-05-2015, 09:50
so that others of a less technical bent
Thats me that is :)
anthonyTD
15-05-2015, 09:59
I forgot to mention that it also has dual mono HT supplies, [shared mains transformer windings] with a decent pair of Chokes situated inside the chassis! [see picks]
Good work Anthony. I was also impressed with your simple but detailed description of testing the amp, so that others of a less technical bent could understand what's involved and what you have done.
:thumbsup:
anthonyTD
15-05-2015, 10:01
This amp is heavy, not having done a proper weighing yet, i would guess its in excess of 40kg!
Nice looking amp. How much does it weigh in KG?
S.
anthonyTD
15-05-2015, 10:02
I agree Clive,
I am sure it will play Led Zep just fine!;)
It is a sad situation routed in communication issues rather than anything underhand. Probably both sides had their role to play in Communication Breakdown, does it play Led Zep well?
Gordon Steadman
15-05-2015, 10:07
So, the guy had a perfectly good amplifier all the time.
Ain't it great when humans manage to sod up a simple thing like talking to each other. Belligerence?, intransigence? Who really knows? Still, it looks like someone will get a bargain unless the bidding gets a little enthusiastic.
so that others of a less technical bent
Thats me that is :)
:eyebrows:
Audio Al
15-05-2015, 10:10
I was worried all along about John Woods reputation , Forums can be ruinous for some people , As I mentioned in the thread earlier I heard one of these in a high end / cost / quality system and it sounded very good :)
I was worried all along about John Woods reputation , Forums can be ruinous for some people , As I mentioned in the thread earlier I heard one of these in a high end / cost / quality system and it sounded very good :)
He should have stuck to his guns and refused to ship, insisting on it being picked up. Unfortunately valve amps can fail, or as in this case valves, plus shipping them is fraught with problems. Access to someone to help diagnose problems is useful too. Shipping solid state amps is mostly so much easier which avoids pretty much all of what happened here. Maybe valves are not for everyone. :-(
Very true. Big valve amps without original factory packaging don't travel well.
Very true. Big valve amps without original factory packaging don't travel well.
Agreed. I've shipped a few, they need some very serious double boxing.
Berni217
15-05-2015, 19:12
So, the guy had a perfectly good amplifier all the time.
Ain't it great when humans manage to sod up a simple thing like talking to each other. Belligerence?, intransigence? Who really knows? Still, it looks like someone will get a bargain unless the bidding gets a little enthusiastic.
To refresh people memories, this Amp as good as it may be was not the one that was ordered in the first place from John Wood.
Therefore, as a customer, if you receive the wrong good (damaged or not), you have the right to claim and get the item ordered or a refund. It is definitely not the customer fault. Is it?
Hi,
I have just read the whole of this tale and would have misgivings bidding for the amp, the owner should just keep it and enjoy it, I think it unfair that anyone would take advantage of the situation purely to gain a cheap amp.
I know the owner has said to auction the amp but I feel the money should go to him and not to charity, he can then do with the money what he feels right at the time.
Pride and and stubbornness can be fickle.
Mike.
Audio Advent
16-05-2015, 18:38
Yeah, no-one bid :D
Problem number 1 is that if he get's the money from the sale of the item then he can't persue his court claim which he strongly believes in (else he would be getting twice the money... and it would possibly be fraudulent?).
My personal opinion (or legal guess) is that he can't pursue the money if he decides to give it away to charity either - he can only claim for actual loss and giving something to charity is a choice, not a loss. His small claims court depends entirely on the amplifier being given back to John Wood and therefore the baliffs weren't entitled to do anything either IMO - they weren't court baliffs by the sound of things, only privately hired ones who won't care about these things, just charge their fees and do whatever you say. I can't imagine he'd be allowed by the court to keep both the amp AND claim the money but perhaps I'm wrong?
Aside from that, assuming he's given up on pursuing the case, it's really it's up to the owner of the amp who says he wants the money to go to charity... I can't imagine now though it will look that good if he changes his mind and asks for the money, nor will some people be happy if they bid thinking that at least it's for a good cause, only to find it's not..
PaulStewart
16-05-2015, 19:03
Sam,
You are totally wrong I'm afraid, the OP has a county court judgement that requires the seller to refund his money. There was no mention in the judgement of the goods being returned, so he is entitled to dispose of them as he sees fit. BTW All bailiffs are private licensed individuals, as are High Court Sheriffs, they are however officers of the court.
This may be a great amp, but the court has judged that it is not "Fut for purpose" as ordered. A really sad situation, it just goes to show you you shoul always collect or have thesecthings delivered and check the out before accepting them. It also shows the danger of items that seem to be great value for money, 'cos this can mean the seller has not enough leeway to provide back up without making a loss.
Ninanina
16-05-2015, 23:23
I've just read this through and what a sorry story it is...
I think the overriding fact is that the amp delivered was not what the buyer ordered... The buyer ordered a newly built amp (as indicated in his email to the seller which stated "please build and supply one integrated valve amplifier") however the buyer actually received a 'previously owned' amp and on that premise alone I believe the buyer has a right to a refund... never mind that it had a fault even though it turned out to just be bad valves
Even if I wanted another amp I definitely won't be bidding as I think the buyer should be refunded and return the amp to the seller...
Just my 2p worth of course ;)
Audio Advent
17-05-2015, 04:56
I've just read this through and what a sorry story it is...
I think the overriding fact is that the amp delivered was not what the buyer ordered... The buyer ordered a newly built amp (as indicated in his email to the seller which stated "please build and supply one integrated valve amplifier") however the buyer actually received a 'previously owned' amp and on that premise alone I believe the buyer has a right to a refund... never mind that it had a fault even though it turned out to just be bad valves
Even if I wanted another amp I definitely won't be bidding as I think the buyer should be refunded and return the amp to the seller...
Just my 2p worth of course ;)
Has that been shown to be true? That this was secondhand? Or was it one which was previously made but not delivered or something like that?
Audio Advent
17-05-2015, 05:05
Sam,
You are totally wrong I'm afraid, the OP has a county court judgement that requires the seller to refund his money. There was no mention in the judgement of the goods being returned, so he is entitled to dispose of them as he sees fit. BTW All bailiffs are private licensed individuals, as are High Court Sheriffs, they are however officers of the court.
This may be a great amp, but the court has judged that it is not "Fut for purpose" as ordered. A really sad situation, it just goes to show you you shoul always collect or have thesecthings delivered and check the out before accepting them. It also shows the danger of items that seem to be great value for money, 'cos this can mean the seller has not enough leeway to provide back up without making a loss.
Totally wrong?
Have we had the judgement posted up? I haven't been through the whole thread so it is a genuine question.
I guess there is a danger in arguing without the absolute facts in front of us, and that also discounts the statements of those directly involved who obviously have their own interests and beliefs colouring their views.
Baliffs are baliffs. They are only officers of the court if the court has instructed them to act. I'm not sure that is the case here is it? Might be, but I got the impression not. My boss is pursuing someone for unpaid invoices, has been to mediation meetings via small claims courts and had judgments against the guy... but all action he's taken to chase the money has had to have been private, not instructed by the court, and that for more money than at stake here (yet still under the small claims threshold). I find that when I read people talking about small claims and what they think the judgement has been etc etc, many people make wrongful assumptions because they are understandably new to the whole process.
Also I think people get mightily confused between civil law and criminal law - to most people the "law is the law". Civil matters are quite different and even sticking to the terms of a judgement isn't necessary if the situation is resolved via compromise so that people are satisfied, it's called settlement. That could have happened long long long ago if it weren't for the protagonist's attitudes..
Audio Advent
17-05-2015, 05:11
How the hell "oh, this hasn't got a remote like I asked!" and some damaged-in-transit valves got to this stage blows my mind!
One thing I am sure of from reading some of this is that BOTH the people involved have only themselves to blame ! Such idiots in my humble opinion - pride and stubborness can make people look supremely stupid.
Gordon Steadman
17-05-2015, 06:43
How the hell "oh, this hasn't got a remote like I asked!" and some damaged-in-transit valves got to this stage blows my mind!
One thing I am sure of from reading some of this is that BOTH the people involved have only themselves to blame ! Such idiots in my humble opinion - pride and stubborness can make people look supremely stupid.
Quite so.
From the start I thought we were getting half a story and nothing I have read since has convinced me that I have seen enough to condemn either party more than the other. The power to communicate is what got humans to where we are but clearly, we are going backwards if this is an example.
Guys, now that the amp has been fully assessed, and fixed, it will indeed (in due course) be getting auctioned, with the proceeds from that donated to charity. That arrangement was agreed between the seller and I some time back.
Therefore, I don't wish to regurgitate the argument of 'who's to blame' for this incident, and for the discussion, in that respect, to go round and round in circles, so I think it's time to close this one now, pending an announcement in due course as to how the auction will be conducted and when it will take place.
Marco.
I'd suggest those commenting on this situation read the entire thread before doing so.
But I am feeling charitable so here is a précis
The matter has been to court three times, including the High Court. All three times the Court found in favour of the plaintiff.
The Plaintiff is owed a full refund of what he paid plus costs. That was the High Court decision, based on the evidence presented by both sides.
Settlement or recovery, despite a High Court writ, have proven impossible.
The plaintiff is fed up of the whole issue and wants the amp gone. He has agreed it will be fixed and sold for charity. He will remain out of pocket.
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