View Full Version : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 interconnects build offer for all AoS members
brian2957
11-07-2014, 11:24
A couple of months ago Marco posted a thread searching for the ultimate VFM SPPV interconnect using reasonably priced cables and plugs available today . I believe he tried many cables and plugs from various manufacturers and achieved some very good results . Some became viable candidates for use in his own system . Indeed I tried quite a few of the suggested cables myself and was pleasantly surprised by the SQ of quite a few of them.
Now , I've been making my own interconnects for over 20 years and have had great success in this area for little expenditure .One of my personal favourites is the Klotz AC110 cable which Rega used in their interconnects . I always have some of this cable to hand to make up cables when and where needed , so I decided to make up some Klotz interconnects to compare with the forum favourites. All I needed was some plugs .
While scouring the internet I came across MS Audio plugs , which looked very interesting , so I bought a set and fitted them to the Klotz AC110 cables . I was really surprised at how good the new cables sounded . So much so that I sent them to Marco for a listen . He subsequently bought a couple of sets from me . So did another few forum members and all were very happy with their purchase , some replacing very expensive cables with the Klotz AC110 . All agreed that they were excellent.
A little later Kevin ( cageyH ) suggested that we try the Klotz MC5000 cable instead of the AC110. Marco duly asked me to make up a set for him and this new interconnect sounded even better than the MS Audio / Klotz AC110 combination . So we all settled on the MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 combination.
Everyoe who has bought these cables from me has been very impressed with them and all have kept them in their system , including me . They are very good indeed ( at any price )
At the suggestion of some of the purchasers of this cable I have decided to offer them for sale to forum members here at what I believe is a very competitive price . If you are interested in purchasing these cables please feel free to contact me with your requirements and I can quote you a price .
Good luck with this, Brian. The cables in question are sonically superb and extremely well-priced for the performance on offer - and the service you're providing for members is fantastic.
I would therefore urge all AoS-ers (unable to solder to such a high standard as your good self), and who are keen to obtain the best sound from their systems, in true AoS SPPV fashion, to take up your excellent offer! :)
Marco.
brian2957
11-07-2014, 17:59
Thanks Marco we aim to please .:)
wee tee cee
11-07-2014, 18:17
Brian,
Could you do me a 6m right channel and 2m left as I am feeding the mono blocks on the back of the respective speakers and running short speaker cable. The IC between DAC nad PRE is staying put. Might as well run the same throughout. Will post up results regards synergy wise. Please PM with costings and Paypal details.
Cheers Tony.
brian2957
11-07-2014, 18:23
OK Tony . I'll have a look at costing this cable and get back to you via PM . Thanks for the repeat order mate . Glad you like the interconnects which I sent you the other day :)
Wakefield Turntables
11-07-2014, 18:25
Cost per meter would be useful, as would cost of the RCA's, gimme the price for say a 0.5m pair.
brian2957
11-07-2014, 19:04
You have PM Andrew .
Darren Cotter
11-07-2014, 20:40
Hi Brian
Could you PM me a price for a 1m pair please.
Regards
Darren
brian2957
11-07-2014, 20:49
You have PM Darren .
These cables bettered a TQ Black interconnect in my (revealing) system.
Asked Brian of he would do me another for my Firebottle phono stage.
No need to look for anything further interconnect wise.
As good as it gets - it betters a £300 cable, and who want's to spend more than THAT to get maybe 5% better (maybe)? :mental:
Brian's a mate, but honestly, these cables are head and shoulder better than anything else I've tried.
Darren Cotter
13-07-2014, 19:16
Hi Gaz
I'm sure you are right. Looking forward to replacing my Mark Grant 2000HD WBT Cu's with them. If I can sell the MG's, I might have enough money to get a nice USB Amp/Dac for my laptop.
Regards
Darren
brian2957
13-07-2014, 20:11
These cables start at £45 for a 0.5m set and just add £4 per half meter set .
12804
anthonyTD
13-07-2014, 20:30
Hi All,
I currently have two pairs of these excelent cables in my system which i made up myself, and i am very happy with their performance, and for the price brian is quoting, they are a steal!:eek::)
A...
Nice one, Anthony. Any preference between the AC110 and MC5000? :)
Marco.
Top man Brian, what a great gesture :)
anthonyTD
13-07-2014, 20:54
Hi Marco,
Unfortunetly, i dont have any of the AC110 to compare against, only a memory of them when we first put yours in my system.
A...
Nice one, Anthony. Any preference between the AC110 and MC5000? :)
Marco.
Ah, no worries... I thought you'd got in some of both.
Marco.
Sorry if this is a numptie question but I have been recommended to buy these by another member when I enquired about some speaker cables he might have had available. Are there any opinions about their use as speaker cables?
TIA,
Dave.
I would not use them as speaker cables.
I don't think that the conductors are big enough.
Thanks Kevin,
Old age taking it's toll again, sorry :( . Having re-read the original exchanges from many months ago I now realise that we were then talking of interconnects, not speaker cables, so it really was a numptie question - Sorry all!
Dave.
wee tee cee
16-07-2014, 14:22
Received the latest batch of cable from Brian. Plumbed them in at lunch time and have put a couple of hours on them.....marvellous!
Thanks for the quick turnaround.
Thanks Kevin,
Old age taking it's toll again, sorry :( . Having re-read the original exchanges from many months ago I now realise that we were then talking of interconnects, not speaker cables, so it really was a numptie question - Sorry all!
Dave.
heh, Dave strikes again. :)
I asked 3 numptie questions in the last 3 days
brian2957
16-07-2014, 15:01
Received the latest batch of cable from Brian. Plumbed them in at lunch time and have put a couple of hours on them.....marvellous!
Thanks for the quick turnaround.
Glad you're liking the cables Tony . Give them some burn in time and they'll open right up :)
Glad you're liking the cables Tony . Give them some burn in time and they'll open right up :)
I can vouch for that. Mine sounded great 'out of the box' but within three days they came on in leaps and bounds ;)
wee tee cee
16-07-2014, 17:25
I am not much of a cable burn in believer but I did notice the IC did indeed settle down after a few days. Mighty impressed with new pair straight out the box. Hi fi is sounding the best it has. Real improvement for very reasonable outlay.
normal real world usage of a brand new interconenct...?
my experience.
Will stop changing sound (i.e. burn in) after two weeks of using it "normally"...say 3/4 hours a day on and off.
Covenant
18-07-2014, 07:28
I can vouch for that. Mine sounded great 'out of the box' but within three days they came on in leaps and bounds ;)
I have to admit, after a few days my interconnects sound a lot better.I might change the cable to the MC5000 from the 110......
worth a punt Jerry, most that have tried it think its better, myself included.
brian2957
27-07-2014, 20:54
If you buy this cable from me and don't like it I will return your money on receipt of the returned cable.
Howz biz, as it were, Brian? :)
Marco.
brian2957
27-07-2014, 21:23
Had a few buy these cables Marco . None returned yet . Must be doing something right :D
Are you still enjoying yours ?
brian2957
27-07-2014, 21:33
Nice one :D
Covenant
29-07-2014, 20:19
Brian very kindly re-made my interconnects using the MC5000 cable.
In a word-magnificent, a real improvement across the range. These are keepers!
gazcarts
30-07-2014, 18:26
Just a quick message adding my recommendation for these cables and Brian's superb workmanship. I was doubtful these would better my £400 Isolda DCT300 interconnects, as they have had great reviews, so Brian made a pair up for me to trial. Indeed they were as good as the Isolda cables. I didn't have enough Isolda interconnects for all my kit so had connected my Croft pre and Series 7 power using a van den Hul D102 Mk III cable. When I replaced that with the MC5000 cable, I was astounded at the difference. I asked Brian to make two more pairs up, which arrived today. I now have MC5000 interconnects throughout apart from my Isolda tonearm cable, and the difference is remarkable. They do actually better the Isolda cables. Such incredible detail, bass and imaging. They match my system perfectly.
For the price, these cables are stupendous! Thanks again Brian for a speedy service and great communication all round. You're a pleasure to deal with.
Gareth
Stupid question for many on this thread, but how much of the improvement is the plugs? I have a box full of new standard Neutrik phonos, the current ones with rubber rear 'boots.' The recommended ones seem available again and their price is very competitive, but are these really so much better?
Apologies if I've missed any previous comments.
Quick confirmation of Klotz 'Burn-In...' -
Using the AC110 with stock Neutrik RCA to Neutrik 14" jacks and comparing with a fairly new MG HD1500 (Neutrik Pro RCA's to Neutrik 14" jacks), I'm convinced the (home made) Klotz 'did a Rega Couple' on me and sounded a little over-damped at first. I used HD25SP headphones, which are a bit 'untamed-toppy' in sound and believe me, treble differences are clearly audible/magnified with these. I used both cables at the same time (one set on the speaker amps and the other on the identical amp (in stereo) used for headphones (preamp has twin outputs) and I swapped them around regularly. After a few months fairly regular usage, any differences between them all but disappeared, meaning that either the MG toned down (not so likely IMO) or the AC110 livened up. Either way, for an outlay of less than a tenner including P&P, I'm delighted :)
brian2957
30-07-2014, 18:38
Just a quick message adding my recommendation for these cables and Brian's superb workmanship. I was doubtful these would better my £400 Isolda DCT300 interconnects, as they have had great reviews, so Brian made a pair up for me to trial. Indeed they were as good as the Isolda cables. I didn't have enough Isolda interconnects for all my kit so had connected my Croft pre and Series 7 power using a van den Hul D102 Mk III cable. When I replaced that with the MC5000 cable, I was astounded at the difference. I asked Brian to make two more pairs up, which arrived today. I now have MC5000 interconnects throughout apart from my Isolda tonearm cable, and the difference is remarkable. They do actually better the Isolda cables. Such incredible detail, bass and imaging. They match my system perfectly.
For the price, these cables are stupendous! Thanks again Brian for a speedy service and great communication all round. You're a pleasure to deal with.
Gareth
Thanks Gareth , glad you like the cables, its been an absolute pleasure dealing with you . :)
brian2957
30-07-2014, 18:46
Stupid question for many on this thread, but how much of the improvement is the plugs? I have a box full of new standard Neutrik phonos, the current ones with rubber rear 'boots.' The recommended ones seem available again and their price is very competitive, but are these really so much better?
Apologies if I've missed any previous comments.
I'm a big fan of Neutrik plugs Dave and have used them with many cables builds. TBH with you I've never tried the Neutriks with the Klotz MC5000 cable , so the short answer is I don't know . When a few guys on the forum began experimenting with the MS Audio plugs and various cables the MC5000 came out tops . There appears to be some kind of synergy ( if you believe in that kind of thing ) going on here with the MS Audio plugs seemingly being a very good match with the MC5000 cable . Just check the feedback on this thread . I've never felt the need to try any other plugs with the MC5000 so I just don't know.
Just to reiterate , if any AOS member buys these cables from me and doesn't like them I will refund their money on receipt of the returned cables.
You have PM Dave.
wee tee cee
31-07-2014, 13:01
I have also ended up plumbing my whole system with Brians cables. They are letting me enjoy listening to music without the niggling doubt of wanting to try different cables or configurations. I swapped back to my previous cable and was surprised at the difference. As Jerry said-they are keepers. I'm reluctant to admit they did improve with more hours on them.....dont ask me why!!!
brian2957
31-07-2014, 13:11
Hah ! Told ye so :)
You have PM buddy .
How are people wiring up this cable? is it with the two centre cores as hot and return and the shield connected to return at one end?
brian2957
31-07-2014, 15:39
I wire mine two centre cores hot and return with the shield disconnected at both ends Mark . I tried connecting the earth wire at the source end and did't like what I heard . The sound lost focus and the bass was all over the place.
Thanks for that. Did you also try wiring both the centre wires as the hot and using the braid as the return?
brian2957
31-07-2014, 16:41
No Mark it sounds excellent as is mate.
I'm sure it does - but who knows, it might be better still - you don't know till you've tried it. Anyway, I've ordered some of the cable and have some spare plugs so will try the different wiring options.
brian2957
31-07-2014, 19:52
Nice one , please keep us posted Mark .:)
Sovereign
31-07-2014, 20:17
I'm sure it does - but who knows, it might be better still - you don't know till you've tried it. Anyway, I've ordered some of the cable and have some spare plugs so will try the different wiring options.
Talking of doing things a slightly different way, I have bought a second lot of MC5000 so I can double up/shotgun the cables. i.e.. two conductors on the hot and two on the return. Bit busy at the moment, but I'll probably give it a go next month.
Why not just get the quadflex cable?
I wire mine two centre cores hot and return with the shield disconnected at both ends Mark . I tried connecting the earth wire at the source end and did't like what I heard . The sound lost focus and the bass was all over the place.
Wiring the cable like that means the shield is 'floating' and will have no effect, apart from increasing the capacitance slightly. Nothing wrong with that, but you could have achieved the same result by simply using a twisted pair of wires.
Thanks for that. Did you also try wiring both the centre wires as the hot and using the braid as the return?
If you do that, you may as well use conventional coaxial cable.
Wiring the cable like that means the shield is 'floating' and will have no effect, apart from increasing the capacitance slightly. Nothing wrong with that, but you could have achieved the same result by simply using a twisted pair of wires.
Sonically, though, it certainly seems to work! However, I'd be interested to know from Brian the thinking behind that decision :)
Marco.
I have mine wired up as single ended cables. I can't say I noticed a big difference.
My next cable is going to make full use of the shield, as it's going to be an balanced XLR, which is what this cable was made for.
If you do that, you may as well use conventional coaxial cable.
Yes, I know - I was just ascertaining what had been tried.
brian2957
04-08-2014, 11:15
Sonically, though, it certainly seems to work! However, I'd be interested to know from Brian the thinking behind that decision :)
Marco.
Well as you know Marco , we tried quite a few cables and settled on the MC5000 wired to the plugs in that configuration . Whilst I bow to the vastly superior knowledge of Barry , Mark and quite a few others on here , I only have one arbiter I'm afraid , my own ears . I understand some of the science behind what Barry and Mark are saying , however I tried the cable with the shield connected at the source end and didn't like what I heard , poor bass and loss of focus . In short a loss of the characteristics which I really like about this interconnect .Perhaps the cable in this configuration didn't suit my system so in that respect YMMV . I would welcome any advice / further information on this from Barry , Mark or anyone else on the forum.
Hi Brian,
I totally agree, mate. The MC5000s sound utterly superb in their current configuration, so I have no urge to fiddle. I was simply interested in how you arrived at the wiring method you've chosen.
If it was simply by listening and using your ears, then that's cool by me, as that's exactly what I'd have done, rather than getting too bogged down by theories! :)
Marco.
brian2957
04-08-2014, 11:41
Yup just trial and error mate. I don't have any complex measuring equipment , just a very simple meter . I have a lot of respect for people who have studied for years and know about these things , however , you can apply all the scientific theory and measurements you like but at some point these cables have to be listened to in ones system . If they're crap they're crap , no matter how well they measure :)
Indeed, they won't work for everyone but they are certainly doing the business here ;)
brian2957
04-08-2014, 11:56
Thanks Dave , I 've never had any returned yet so they must work in a wide variety of systems. :)
Well, for your own piece of mind you know what they have replaced which is high praise indeed... :)
Brian, I'm at a bit of a loss here and feel very guilty allowing you to send a set to me.. At the moment and with only a few hours under them, they sound like the Couple/AC110 when new, only more so - thick bass, dark mids and seemingly over-damped treble. I swear I haven't opened the plugs to see how you've soldered them up and after what you've posted and what I've been told just lately, it seems that a 'screen' ideally should not be connected to the signal return (as you've indeed done by just using the conductors), as the rf and other rubbish you're trying to keep away, may just be faithfully transmitted down the screen/return which is what you're trying to avoid...
After a few hours, I think things are starting to improve a little, but sorry to say that in my *current* opinion, the Sound Cord is vastly superior in a musical sense, even if it is a touch 'obvious' and possibly a little band-limited in perceived sonics in comparison with its expensive peers. You know, everyone here got so caught up with w@nky expensive plugs, that 'we' seem to have forgotten the humble £50 Mark Grant offering with stock plugs, which may be a little thin toned with some systems, but the basic honesty is still really good..
I'm surprised you find the SC's superior.
My MC5000 cables (with the screen connected at one end) sound better in my system than my SSC, hence my SSC are now sat in the spares box.
There is obviously a synergy thing going on, or you have a different musical goal that you are looking for.
The MC5000 also sounds better than the AC110 to me. In my system, it was obvious that the MC5000 worked better.
It's probably not the best cable out there, but as it's a pro cable used in studios, it's probably quite "honest".
Brian, I'm at a bit of a loss here and feel very guilty allowing you to send a set to me.. At the moment and with only a few hours under them, they sound like the Couple/AC110 when new, only more so - thick bass, dark mids and seemingly over-damped treble.
Surprise, surprise!
:lol: :lolsign:
Marco.
Is that good or bad? :eyebrows:
if Brian says they're good then they will be.;)
brian2957
04-08-2014, 21:01
Brian, I'm at a bit of a loss here and feel very guilty allowing you to send a set to me.. At the moment and with only a few hours under them, they sound like the Couple/AC110 when new, only more so - thick bass, dark mids and seemingly over-damped treble. I swear I haven't opened the plugs to see how you've soldered them up and after what you've posted and what I've been told just lately, it seems that a 'screen' ideally should not be connected to the signal return (as you've indeed done by just using the conductors), as the rf and other rubbish you're trying to keep away, may just be faithfully transmitted down the screen/return which is what you're trying to avoid...
After a few hours, I think things are starting to improve a little, but sorry to say that in my *current* opinion, the Sound Cord is vastly superior in a musical sense, even if it is a touch 'obvious' and possibly a little band-limited in perceived sonics in comparison with its expensive peers. You know, everyone here got so caught up with w@nky expensive plugs, that 'we' seem to have forgotten the humble £50 Mark Grant offering with stock plugs, which may be a little thin toned with some systems, but the basic honesty is still really good..
:) Not a problem Dave . I've been around long enough to know that not all cables will will sound good in all systems . Also we're all looking for different things from our systems and our interconnects . Just thought that you might like to hear them Dave . I won't be going down the road of stating that this cable is better than that cable . If any one wants a listen to the MC5000/ MS Audio interconnects they're welcome to contact me with their requirements and I'll send them a set . If they don't like them ( for any reason ) I will return their money on receipt of the returned cable . I can't be fairer than that . All the manufacturers on AOS , particularly Mark Grant , RFC and MCRU offer excellent VFM cables , so there's plenty to choose from . I'm glad you're happy with what you've got Dave , it's good place to be :)
Brian, I wasn't trying to tell you, or even suggest, that you have wired these cables incorrectly. I was genuinely just interested in finding out how you had wired them as there are a number of different options.
As it happens, I have just tried some interconnects that were identical other than the wiring configuration. In both cases I preferred them wired in a semi coaxial configuration rather than the braid being used as a shield connected at one end only (just as you didn't like it either).
brian2957
04-08-2014, 21:05
Is that good or bad? :eyebrows:
if Brian says they're good then they will be.;)
Why thank you sir . Have a :cool: on me:)
brian2957
04-08-2014, 21:09
Brian, I wasn't trying to tell you, or even suggest, that you have wired these cables incorrectly. I was genuinely just interested in finding out how you had wired them as there are a number of different options.
As it happens, I have just tried some interconnects that were identical other than the wiring configuration. In both cases I preferred them wired in a semi coaxial configuration rather than the braid being used as a shield connected at one end only (just as you didn't like it either).
Not a problem Mark . Can you describe in more detail which wire and plugs you used and the configuration you used . I have an open mind on this and welcome any advice in how to improve my listening experience . Send me PM if you like Mark . Thanks,
Brian, I'm at a bit of a loss here and feel very guilty allowing you to send a set to me.. At the moment and with only a few hours under them, they sound like the Couple/AC110 when new, only more so - thick bass, dark mids and seemingly over-damped treble. I swear I haven't opened the plugs to see how you've soldered them up and after what you've posted and what I've been told just lately, it seems that a 'screen' ideally should not be connected to the signal return (as you've indeed done by just using the conductors), as the rf and other rubbish you're trying to keep away, may just be faithfully transmitted down the screen/return which is what you're trying to avoid...
After a few hours, I think things are starting to improve a little, but sorry to say that in my *current* opinion, the Sound Cord is vastly superior in a musical sense, even if it is a touch 'obvious' and possibly a little band-limited in perceived sonics in comparison with its expensive peers. You know, everyone here got so caught up with w@nky expensive plugs, that 'we' seem to have forgotten the humble £50 Mark Grant offering with stock plugs, which may be a little thin toned with some systems, but the basic honesty is still really good..
Hmmm, perhaps they are just not a good match for your gear Dave, who knows... All I can say is that my pair will be staying put as they are performing extremely well here ;)
Surprise, surprise!
:lol: :lolsign:
Marco.
And what the fugg is THAT supposed to mean?
Look chaps, I'm in nobody's pocket and I did say many times how I thought the Klotz cables seem to alter slightly from when first plugged in - and I gave my home made AC110's many hours of use and they're still there doing great service! I really couldn't give a stuff what bits of wire we all connect our stereo's up with, but I'm too old and far too stupid to follow fashion - been there and done it thirty five years ago, read a library and worn out more Tee shirts than I care to remember :rolleyes:
I listened again after my post above. PLEASE can we be totally clear that the humungous differences we all claim to hear are actually extremely tiny. Connecting up to a switchbox and even switching over ones-self seems to get in the way of perception. How I hear what I hear is more in terms of tiny 'impressions' on how I perceive the music being played. Hell, if there really was a major difference I swear to you that it could be measured! I BOUGHT my SC's, one set new at the going rate and the other with thanks to 'Icehockeyboy' here. I'm not remotely saying it's the dogs doo-dahs, but it gets the basics right *for me,* even if it is a bit 'obvious' and possibly/probably not subtle enough for decent modern advanced stereo's.
The differences we are talking about are subtle for me, but I prefer the difference.
The same as the difference that OldPinkMan's PIP going into my system was subtle, but in a good way.
There comes a point where HiFi is about subtle differences, and you have to spend big bucks for a big difference.
I have read some right tosh elsewhere on the web recently, but I am happy to say that I have demonstrated to a non-believer that cables do actually make a difference, and not in a small way. It was rather noticeable.
I'd agree there but not necessarily expensive ones. It all depends. I have some dear ish ones and cheap ones and in the right combination they work for me. In the wrong order they spectacularly don't.
Not a problem Mark . Can you describe in more detail which wire and plugs you used and the configuration you used . I have an open mind on this and welcome any advice in how to improve my listening experience . Send me PM if you like Mark . Thanks,
PM sent :).
brian2957
05-08-2014, 07:13
Sorry Mark didn't get the PM .
Yeah, you must have done - I've just read your reply and am replying to it now :).
Come on chaps. Spill the beans. ;)
Anyone who's made their own Klotz cables up noticed any difference in the copper used in the AC110 or 5000?
Also and back to my comments above. Am I the only one who definitely seems to hear a change in the Klotz cable's performance over the first few hours/days/weeks even? Some would have heart failure even suggesting such a thing and I know some cables are just fit-and-forget.
And what the fugg is THAT supposed to mean?
Lol... It's simply meant to mean that these days pretty much anything you hear in your system, I hear precisely the POLAR opposite! :D
"Thick bass, dark mids and seemingly over-damped treble."
You'd laugh and shake your head in disbelief at those comments too, Dave (regardless of how genuine they are, which incidentally I don't doubt), if you were here now with me listening to music with said cables in situ!
It's a bit like someone saying: 'the French are nothing but a bunch of arrogant twats', when you're in the process of enjoying the company of the most friendly and congenial French person imaginable....... Your instant reaction to those comments is utter shock and disbelief!!
Do you see where I'm coming from? :)
Marco.
anthonyTD
05-08-2014, 09:22
Hi All,
When i made my MC5000's up, i used the two inner cores; one for signal, and one for signal return, and connected the screen at one end only, this is how i have always wired this type cable when being used as single ended, i really dont see the point in using this type of cable if your not going to use the screen to some affect, however, this is My opinion, and the cables wired this way, with the screen at the source end sound fine in my system, i supose i could cut the screen off and try it, but i am not going to.:eyebrows:
A...
Nice one, mate.
Got any "thick bass, dark mids and over-damped treble' going on at your gaff? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Points taken Marco. Our current listening systems are poles apart and my current comparisons and listening have been via HD25SP headphones, hardly Top End...
I have commented many times how my AC110 set seemed to free-up a bit in subtle but important ways as time and usage grew and I suspect this may be happening with the 5000 as well. Are your own cables with outer screen connected at one end?
I have 3m of my own cables and shall be making some up for pre to power duties shortly. My personal jury is still out on the MS plugs, but they're not expensive and as yet I haven't bought any to try to terminate.
I've tried both Klotz cables but not noticed any 'burn in' effects.
Perhaps it is the listener who has 'freed up in subtle but important ways'?
anthonyTD
05-08-2014, 09:51
They sound remarkably balanced in comparison to other cables configured this way, however, i can understand to a degree how either configuration might suit one system and not another.
Nice one, mate.
Got any "thick bass, dark mids and over-damped treble' going on at your gaff? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Hi Dave,
Points taken Marco. Our current listening systems are poles apart and my current comparisons and listening have been via HD25SP headphones, hardly Top End...
Indeed. There surely must be a proper explanation for the diametrically opposed results we've obtained from using the same cables, as for me, such a huge discrepancy goes way beyond merely the influence of personal taste. It sounds like something is seriously amiss... :scratch:
I also think that, in terms of statistics, you're the first person, out of many who've used the MC5000s (not the AC110s), who have reported those results. Perhaps Brian could confirm? Therefore that fact should also be taken into consideration, as the results you've achieved with the cables in question are not representative of those of the current majority.
Are your own cables with outer screen connected at one end?
They are as Brian would've soldered them, as he described earlier, which I believe was with the screen disconnected and merely 'floating'. I presume that's how yours have been soldered?
My personal jury is still out on the MS plugs, but they're not expensive and as yet I haven't bought any to try to terminate.
What's not to like? They have a totally non-ferrous/non-magnetic construction and feature the use of solid Tellurium copper conductors. They're a damn sight better than the 'metal heavy' brass conductor crap used on many other interconnects.
Also, don't judge them on price. Everything, bar the length of the outer barrel (and the badge), is identical to the Graham Nalty Legacy GN3s, shown here:
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/diy-componants/866-graham-nalty-legacy-gn3-gn4-rca-connector.html
...which sell for £80, for four, not £12, for four!! ;) Therefore, to all intents and purposes, the plugs Brian's using are Graham Naltys, simply with a 'less desirable' badge.
Here are the MS Audio plugs in question, so compare them yourself to those above: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MS-Audio-Star-Line-Rhodium-Plated-Tellurium-Copper-RCA-Plugs-2-Pair-/301210894037?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=x%252BVl681KeTlsVMxOpFZ2p2esb1s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
As you know, I've used many different types of connectors over the years (expensive or otherwise), and I can say, without question, that the MS Audio Star Lines are up there with the best! :)
Marco.
brian2957
05-08-2014, 11:45
Bit late to the fray guys as I was nightshift last night :) Nice to see another cable thread on AOS which has stayed civil . Long may it continue :cool: Firstly let's get something straight . these cables were the result of collaboration between members of AOS and as such they are not ' my ' cables . I merely buy the parts ,which the members found worked best with each other ' and solder them together .
IMHO ( and due to feedback received ) these cables do seem to get change with use . Whether it's for the better in your system is for you to decide . 20-30 hours seems to be the consensus .
The cables are wired with the shield floating , that is disconnected at both ends . The two centre cores are used as feed and return. I tried the cable with the shield connected at the source end and didn't particularly like what I heard , again YMMV on this one .
So far I've had one cable returned as the person preferred the cables which he already had in his system . Everyone else has been happy with them and kept them . I offer money back if the purchaser doesn't like them for any reason . These cables aren't some sort of 'wonder ' cable which will suit every system , they're built using good ( value ) parts and built with some care on my part.
Please also remember that there are some excellent , good value , cables available from the likes of Mark Grant . RFC and MCRU which may sound better in your system .
If I haven't answered all the questions posed in the last few posts please feel free to ask.
Nice one, Brian. It seems that in other quarters the quality of the MS Audio plugs is now being called into question - a reaction which is entirely predictable when commercial interests are being protected :rolleyes:
Has no-one heard of the huge mark-ups in audio one can pay simply for a product having 'the right badge'? It's hardly an unknown quantity. One could cite numerous examples of this occurring in high-end audio, in terms of equipment and cables being produced - and that's exactly what's happening in this case!
Those here who've used (i.e. worked with and soldered) both the MS Audio plugs and Eichmann/Graham Naltys, have confirmed that (in all but sonically irrelevant areas of the design, such as collars used) they are identical.
And besides, even if they weren't, who gives a shit?? Where do you think the plugs originate from on 90% of commercially produced cables? Take a guess!!
The MS Audio plugs are cheap enough for no-one without an agenda to give a toss, and most importantly, they sound good. So why not just try some on your cables of choice, use your OWN ears to assess the results, and worry not about their bloody 'provenance'? Jeez, the fickleness of some folk never ceases to amaze me :doh:
I guess the problem is that some people have such little confidence in their own ears and judgement that they have to rely on their 'guru' to TELL them what to buy!! ;)
And *that* is pathetic and utterly risible..... :eyebrows:
Marco.
I'm staggered the MS audio plugs are being denigrated elsewhere to be honest as they surely fit into the particular ethos which is prevalent amongst members of 'the other place'; good quality product constructed with top notch materials at an affordable price plus no added foo. Blimey, they don't even have a gourmet brand name stamped on the plug bodies... :scratch:
brian2957
05-08-2014, 12:38
Lol ' Never mind the quality feel the width '. Remember that TV series :) As these go down the back of my system I don't particularly care what they look like . Also , I'm not qualified to quality assess the MS Audio plugs . So what to do ? I know , I'll fit them to some cable and have a listen :lol: The fact that the plugs look pretty good too is a bonus , but not the be all and end all . They're not the best plugs available but for the price these plugs sound very good indeed , particularly when paired with the MC5000. I'm afraid I don't really care if they're surplus stock or copies , they sound excellent and in the end price versus SQ is all I'm really interested in.
Lol ' Never mind the quality feel the width '. Remember that TV series :) As these go down the back of my system I don't particularly care what they look like . Also , I'm not qualified to quality assess the MS Audio plugs . So what to do ? I know , I'll fit them to some cable and have a listen :lol: The fact that the plugs look pretty good too is a bonus , but not the be all and end all . They're not the best plugs available but for the price these plugs sound very good indeed , particularly when paired with the MC5000. I'm afraid I don't really care if they're surplus stock or copies , they sound excellent and in the end price versus SQ is all I'm really interested in.
Indeed Brian. At the end of the day MS audio have widened the choices available at the budget end of the market by providing a quality product at a very reasonable price, what's not to like? :)
Lol ' Never mind the quality feel the width '. Remember that TV series. As these go down the back of my system I don't particularly care what they look like . Also , I'm not qualified to quality assess the MS Audio plugs . So what to do ? I know , I'll fit them to some cable and have a listen. The fact that the plugs look pretty good too is a bonus , but not the be all and end all . They're not the best plugs available but for the price these plugs sound very good indeed , particularly when paired with the MC5000. I'm afraid I don't really care if they're surplus stock or copies , they sound excellent and in the end price versus SQ is all I'm really interested in.
+1 (with big bad-ass knobs on)!!
What amuses me (and always does) is when something inherently excellent at its core function is rubbished by those with commercial agendas. All that serves to do is make me even MORE determined to be a thorn in their side!! :upyours:
Here's my message to such people: so listen up, and listen well....
The primary directive of AoS will always be to look after the best interests of our members (the ordinary enthusiasts), no matter WHO [with biased agendas] we 'upset' or 'annoy' in the process - and *that* will forever remain the case.
Therefore, simply embrace that fact, smile and learn to accept it :)
Marco.
brian2957
05-08-2014, 12:53
Where's that clapping smiley - ah just found it :clapclapclap: Well said :)
Now the plugs in question are being cited as "illegal". What excuses are we going to get next not to use them, I wonder? Perhaps their silver colour goes against someone's religion??
I know...the seller 'sunnytoto' sounds like a gangster, doesn't he? Defo a bit dodgy, I'd say.... :lol: :mental:
Honestly, the amount of balloons there are in the world today beggars belief!!
Marco.
The thing that really makes me laugh is that Brian has been singled out for copying the config of the SSC, but using a different core cable. Brian arrived at the current config as a joint effort.
I had tried the hot/cold conductors only as a quick and dirty test to see if the cable was worth pursuing. I couldn't be bothered messing with the screen at that point. It sounded pretty good to me. Brian asked how I had wired them up, and did the same. The results speak for themselves. So as Monty Python said "(He's not the Messiah.) He's a very naughty boy!" (I'll leave the rest out, but look it up if you want, it kind of feels appropriate).
As a SSC is a shot gunned military grade coaxial comms cable, and the MC5000 is a balanced microphone cable, how is the config the same?
The MC5000 double copper braided screen is not used. The plugs are different. The cables are different, so obviously the config is the same. :scratch:
I'm not a believer that different plugs in my system make a big difference. I have used the same plugs on the cheaper NVA interconnects, and I can't detect a big difference. I believe that these are brass.
The MS Audio plugs are cheap, easy to solder and work well. Why bother looking elsewhere? You could spend more money on the plugs, but it won't give you a significant improvement.
I have now soldered mine up single ended and didn't notice a big difference. OldPinkMan was here the other day and thought that I had a nicely balanced system (apart from when the QED SA went in - you can read more about that on TAS) so they must be working well, and that is to say that they neither add anything, or take anything away (A cable cannot add anything, other than interference throughout the length of the cable).
brian2957
05-08-2014, 13:32
Thanks Kevin , it was indeed a collaboration of AOS members who arrived at this combination . I can't really claim the credit here , it was AOS working at its best .:)
Most definitely high price does not mean better sound. My system is pretty modest and most of my cables are pretty modest to the point of miserly but it sounds great to me. Best it has ever sounded else I would have tried some of Brian,s cables...in fact I will someday when I can afford it.
The main thing is that AoS has achieved a good neutral sounding IC at a ridiculously cheap price.
I know people elsewhere are not happy, but when I was still a member there I posted my thoughts about my DIY cable over there in comparison to the SSC, where in my system the DIY cable sounded better, and they were far cheaper for me to make than for me to buy cables from manufacturers.
Hehehe... And what reaction did you get? ;)
The main thing is that AoS has achieved a good neutral sounding IC at a ridiculously cheap price.
Precisely, and *that* is all that matters. If some folk don't like it, then f*ck 'em. I couldn't care less! The same will be done again and again, and again if necessary, whenever we discover something that is truly worth shouting about. Simples :)
And no-one will EVER shut us up! :nono:
Marco.
anthonyTD
05-08-2014, 14:15
Hi Kevin,
Are you now using your MC5000's with the screen connected at one end ?
A...
The thing that really makes me laugh is that Brian has been singled out for copying the config of the SSC, but using a different core cable. Brian arrived at the current config as a joint effort.
I had tried the hot/cold conductors only as a quick and dirty test to see if the cable was worth pursuing. I couldn't be bothered messing with the screen at that point. It sounded pretty good to me. Brian asked how I had wired them up, and did the same. The results speak for themselves. So as Monty Python said "(He's not the Messiah.) He's a very naughty boy!" (I'll leave the rest out, but look it up if you want, it kind of feels appropriate).
As a SSC is a shot gunned military grade coaxial comms cable, and the MC5000 is a balanced microphone cable, how is the config the same?
The MC5000 double copper braided screen is not used. The plugs are different. The cables are different, so obviously the config is the same. :scratch:
I'm not a believer that different plugs in my system make a big difference. I have used the same plugs on the cheaper NVA interconnects, and I can't detect a big difference. I believe that these are brass.
The MS Audio plugs are cheap, easy to solder and work well. Why bother looking elsewhere? You could spend more money on the plugs, but it won't give you a significant improvement.
I have now soldered mine up single ended and didn't notice a big difference. OldPinkMan was here the other day and thought that I had a nicely balanced system (apart from when the QED SA went in - you can read more about that on TAS) so they must be working well, and that is to say that they neither add anything, or take anything away (A cable cannot add anything, other than interference throughout the length of the cable).
Yes, I remade one end on all of the cables.
No noticeable difference to me.
anthonyTD
05-08-2014, 17:28
well,
Thats re-assuring! :)
Yes, I remade one end on all of the cables.
No noticeable difference to me.
Yes, but are you not worried that the police might knock on your door and take all your cables away, because the plugs are "illegal", and that you're a VERY bad man for using them? [I mean, this is a serious botty spanking offence, you know!] :spank: :D
Be afraid, be very afraid..... I hope you manage to get to sleep tonight for lying awake worrying about being a 'criminal' ;)
Fooking loons!! :mental:
Marco.
Do you mean the RCA plugs - in what way are they supposed to be illegal? Is it a copyright issue but I don't think there are any legal requirements for the RCA specification?
The interesting thing for me is the ground pin. It looks almost identical to the KLE Harmony design, so who came up with it first?
I also don't see any patents listed for the plugs.
I believe Louis Eichmann did when he worked for ETI - the Bullet plug. He now has another company (KLE Innovations that make a similar product) - looks like the original patent has expired to me.
Do you mean the RCA plugs - in what way are they supposed to be illegal?
Apparently, it's on the grounds of 'human decency'. Perhaps some puppies were harmed during the process of their construction? :confused:
Marco.
So not the actual law then? Whose human decency is it impinging - ETI who make the original Bullet plug - or Louis Eichmann who doesn't work for them anymore but makes a version of the same plug? Presumably one of them is breaking the laws of human decency with regard to the other?
anthonyTD
05-08-2014, 20:18
Not in the slightest,:eyebrows:
They can share the same shelves as my illegal valve amps! :doh::rolleyes:
Yes, but are you not worried that the police might knock on your door and take all your cables away, because the plugs are "illegal", and that you're a VERY bad man for using them? [I mean, this is a serious botty spanking offence, you know!] :spank: :D
Be afraid, be very afraid..... I hope you manage to get to sleep tonight for lying awake worrying about being a 'criminal' ;)
Fooking loons!! :mental:
Marco.
They can share the same shelves as my illegal valve amps! :doh::rolleyes:
:lolsign:
Hahahahaha... Another load of deluded pish. You wonder how these folk are allowed to walk the streets unsupervised.
Marco.
Stop it you lot :lol:
These copy? plugs carry some intellectual property for the designer of the originals and if this has been compromised then yes, they could be regarded as 'illegal.' Still, I don't think that's 'our' concern at present, as the eBay seller would be liable I believe in the first instance. These plugs offer a different return connector to the original Bullet plugs, which had a pin I seem to remember. Since these things cost pennies to manufacture, the rest being 'intellectual profit' IMO, I doubt they'd be too different to the current 'proper' ones, although some kind soul here would have to shell out for them and compare (Brian?).
My own Klotz 5000/MS set has definitely settled down and largely negated my earlier thoughts. The bass is far better, the treble has sweetened beautifully and the mid is sweet too, so I suppose anyone making a set up should be made well aware how the sound may change over a good few hours' use.
I've just realised - cough - that all these cable comparisons I've made have been via a pre-power cable made with Van Damme mic cable (screen connected at source), so even though this latter has been bypassed now, it's still revealing all the differences or impressions I claim to hear!
Perhaps it's still burning in and 'confusing' matters...
brian2957
05-08-2014, 21:26
I've always enjoyed mucking around with cables and plugs Dave so it's not been a problem . As I've already stated this was a joint effort on AOS so others on the forum had an input financially and in giving of their time . I started using the plugs and credit has to be given to Kevin ( cageyh ) for trying the plugs with the MC5000 . Marco was the main instigator of this and financed the purchase of the cables too . So as I said , a joint effort.
I try to point out to purchasers the importance of giving these cables 20-30 hours to burn in :sofa: :) before making a decision on whether they want to keep them in their system or not .
These copy? plugs carry some intellectual property for the designer of the originals and if this has been compromised then yes, they could be regarded as 'illegal.' Still, I don't think that's 'our' concern at present, as the eBay seller would be liable I believe in the first instance.
Precisely! If I see something for sale on ebay, or even in a high street shop, I automatically presume that the product is legal and fit for sale - why shouldn't I? What am I supposed to do, research it first and then come back later?? :lol:
Some folk, as they say in Scotland, don't half like 'tae bump their gums and talk a load o' keech' [for the sake of pathetically trying to make themselves look 'smart']!!
Marco.
'Burn in' best not go there eh!? As you are making them Brian you could at least try them blind, get somebody to swap a 'burnt in' set with a freshly made set... ;)
brian2957
05-08-2014, 22:12
Like the suggestion Neal . I'll ask the wife and after she's finished :donk: me with them I'll see if she'll help . :lol:
Seriously though all the feedback I'm getting suggests these cables improve with use. If I get the time I'll give it a go though . :)
Good on yer!http://theartofsound.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.png
Wiring the cable like that means the shield is 'floating' and will have no effect, apart from increasing the capacitance slightly. Nothing wrong with that, but you could have achieved the same result by simply using a twisted pair of wires.
Apparently if the shield is close (and I am not sure what 'close' actually is) to the signal wire there will be some capacitance. Why not have a go at using the same design but without the shield?
Apparently if the shield is close (and I am not sure what 'close' actually is) to the signal wire there will be some capacitance. Why not have a go at using the same design but without the shield?
That is precisely what I meant when I said "the shield is floating and will have no effect, apart from increasing the capacitance slightly". Capacitance in this instance means that between the two inner cores being used for the signal and return.
I have heard unscreened twisted-pair cables used as interconnects, and I have heard 300 Ohm ribbon aerial feeder used as interconnects. They 'work', but offer little or no protection from RFI or any other electromagnetic interference.
That is precisely what I meant when I said "the shield is floating and will have no effect, apart from increasing the capacitance slightly". Capacitance in this instance means that between the two inner cores being used for the signal and return.
I have heard unscreened twisted-pair cables used as interconnects, and I have heard 300 Ohm ribbon aerial feeder used as interconnects. They 'work', but offer little or no protection from RFI or any other electromagnetic interference.
Check this out on the matter of shielding: http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm#form . I have just made an interconnect without any shielding (apart from twisting) and bugger me if it does not sound better than the shielded cable it replaced - Oyaide AZ-910. I know too that Nordost used to flog unshielded interconnects - I used to run their Red Dawn, a flat cable - no shielding and not even twisted. So I guess that the immediate environment (and length of cable) is what counts as to whether shielding is significant / important / essential.
But what intrigues me is this concept of a 'floating shield' - an oxymoron? Still it is analogous to a great quote by an American Jurist (whose name I can't recall): "The life of the Law is not logic but, but experience".
An interesting article - if only for the quality of the photographs. Another argyrophile who is obsessed by the fact that silver has only 94% of the resistance of copper!
Why go to all that bother? – just use some two core mains flex.
A ‘floating screen’ is simply a screen that surrounds the conductors that isn’t connected to anything. It forms an equi-potential surface, with a voltage that ‘floats’ somewhere between 0V and the highest voltage nearby in the environment (presumably the mains voltage).
brian2957
06-08-2014, 02:31
IMO the MC5000 cable sounds worse with the shield connected at the source end . Anyone care to hazard a guess as to why that could be ?
Stratmangler
06-08-2014, 09:16
IMO the MC5000 cable sounds worse with the shield connected at the source end . Anyone care to hazard a guess as to why that could be ?
Try it the other way round. It might improve the situation, it might not!
I've encountered a similar situation in a friend's system - the issue was an earthing one in this particular case, and turning the cable around so the shield connected was at the amplifier end made the difference.
A lot depends on the way grounding is implemented, and a lot of modern(ish) gear is floating ground (ie no mains earth), so there's no absolute reference point.
The Black Adder
06-08-2014, 09:33
Hi Brian.
Which way do you make them? Do you make them so the cable reads (as in that's printed on the cable) away from the source so the shield attached at the source end?
Stratmangler
06-08-2014, 09:38
Hi Brain.
Is this a spelling mistake, or is it the posh way you speak round at yours and you've spelt it phonetically? :eyebrows:
Hah, got there before you edited it ;) :D
The Black Adder
06-08-2014, 09:44
haha...
No... He is 'BRAIN' The keeper of secrets of the mystical shield.
you have the eagle eye my friend... :) - do you have the kung-fu grip too?
Try it the other way round. It might improve the situation, it might not!
I've encountered a similar situation in a friend's system - the issue was an earthing one in this particular case, and turning the cable around so the shield connected was at the amplifier end made the difference.
A lot depends on the way grounding is implemented, and a lot of modern(ish) gear is floating ground (ie no mains earth), so there's no absolute reference point.
Which is why it is a fallacy to state that end where the shield of a so-called semi-balanced cable joins the signal return conductor, should be at the source end. It should be connected to the point of lowest electrical potential in the system, that is the mains earth. If the source is double insulated (and is thus connected to the mains supply with a two-core cable), the case, chassis and signal return will not necessarily be at earth potential. In these conditions the cable needs to be reversed (semi-balanced cables are directional due to their non-symmetric construction) with the junction of the screen/shield and the signal return connected to the preamplifier.
Usually and in practice, it will make no audible difference but in some systems it might. It is one of the reasons why I dislike semi-balanced cables. Either stick to true coaxial cables or use fully balanced types.
brian2957
06-08-2014, 10:00
Hi Joe , the shield is not connected at either end so it doesn't really matter which way round you connect the cable . I use mine ( very successfully ) with the writing direction going away from the source . However it won't do any harm to try the cables both ways as you may prefer them going in one particular direction . I think Marco prefers his with the writing direction going towards the source. I'm sure he'll be along soon to confirm his preference .
I tried the cable with and without the shield connected at the source end and preferred the SQ without the shield connected at all.
Back when I used ATC actives, I never thought to completely remove the shield at both ends. However, I remember with the well earthed AVI preamp, that connecting the shield at this end was sonically preferable (I imagined I could hear a difference and that it was repeatable :rolleyes:). The only excuse I can muster was that the shield pin on the ATC's was coupled to ground via a 47 ohm resistor, so not the purest route?
I think pro convention has the shield lifted at one end or another, but it's academic and I think it's whatever suits you best - as stated so well above :)
It was the end of May that the info about the screen on SSC was discussed/publicised, not a few weeks ago.
This was after I had already soldered up my MC5000 without the shield connected. I took the plug off my SSC just to have a look, and I have to say it's well soldered and very neatly done. I was just surprised to see the shield left floating, just as I had done.
By the way, not connecting a shield is not an "invention", mine came about through laziness just to see how the basic cable sounded.
brian2957
06-08-2014, 17:17
It was the end of May that the info about the screen on SSC was discussed/publicised, not a few weeks ago.
This was after I had already soldered up my MC5000 without the shield connected. I took the plug off my SSC just to have a look, and I have to say it's well soldered and very neatly done. I was just surprised to see the shield left floating, just as I had done.
By the way, not connecting a shield is not an "invention", mine came about through laziness just to see how the basic cable sounded.
Yup agreed Kevin . I tried the cable with and without the shield connected at the source end and preferred the latter. Not interested in how anyone else does it . I try things for myself and then make a decision . :)
potatoha
07-08-2014, 10:06
In environments where emi/rfi is not an issue, un-shielded cables can sound better than their shielded counterparts. I live in a noisy environment where fully shielded coaxial or pseudo balanced terminations are a must unfortunately.
I have a simple test to find out if I need shielded cables or not for my listening environment. I connect both types of interconnects, shielded and un-shielded, at preamp input only and gradually increase volume. In my setup, there's absolute silence without any hiss / background noise/ hum with shielded cables at near max volume, but when I use un-shielded cables like DNM, Nordost Red Dawn / SPM, and Klotz MC5000 with floating shield, there's significant amount of hiss / noise / hum audible from halfway volume, about a foot away from the speakers.
In environments where emi/rfi is not an issue, un-shielded cables can sound better than their shielded counterparts. I live in a noisy environment where fully shielded coaxial or pseudo balanced terminations are a must unfortunately.
I have a simple test to find out if I need shielded cables or not for my listening environment. I connect both types of interconnects, shielded and un-shielded, at preamp input only and gradually increase volume. In my setup, there's absolute silence without any hiss / background noise/ hum with shielded cables at near max volume, but when I use un-shielded cables like DNM, Nordost Red Dawn / SPM, and Klotz MC5000 with floating shield, there's significant amount of hiss / noise / hum audible from halfway volume, about a foot away from the speakers.
No surprise there then! What is it that some people have against the use of shielding? Is it a wish to avoid excess capacitance?
potatoha
07-08-2014, 10:42
No surprise there then!
It's simples for me. Nordost SPM / 47 labs interconnects are my all time go-to-interconnects, but I can't use it anymore as it picks up an omnipresent hum in my new listening room. Cables with no shielding like Nordost / 47 labs / DNM sound clearer and faster compared to shielded ones in my experience and I suppose that's why some like them.
brian2957
07-08-2014, 10:43
Personally , I don't have a particular preference . When I build a new shielded cable I always try the cable with shield connected and then disconnected . Been doing this for years .
Cables with no shielding like Nordost / 47 labs / DNM sound clearer and faster compared to shielded ones in my experience and I suppose that's why some like them.
Indeed, and that's why, outside of tonearm cables, I generally prefer using unshielded interconnects (as even before Brian entered the equation with these Klotz cables), those were my findings, although I am no fan of any cables Nordost make!
For me, if you don't need/aren't able to take advantage of the isolation benefits of shielded interconnects, and can hear the sonic benefits of not using shielding, then that's the way to go :)
Marco.
Hi John,
I have a simple test to find out if I need shielded cables or not for my listening environment. I connect both types of interconnects, shielded and un-shielded, at preamp input only and gradually increase volume. In my setup, there's absolute silence without any hiss / background noise/ hum with shielded cables at near max volume, but when I use un-shielded cables like DNM, Nordost Red Dawn / SPM, and Klotz MC5000 with floating shield, there's significant amount of hiss / noise / hum audible from halfway volume, about a foot away from the speakers.
That may be the case, but the question is (hum aside, as that's always unacceptable), does the hiss interfere with/adversely affect sound quality/your enjoyment of the music, and if not, hiss aside, does the sonic performance of the unshielded cables in question (MC5000, etc) outweigh the effect of the hiss?
What I'm getting at is that, much like listening to cassette tape without Dolby NR, or some battery-operated MC head amps/phono stages, 'clean hiss' (as long as it doesn't come through the music) is preferable to no hiss, and an ultimately worse (dulled) sound, perhaps caused in this case, via added capacitance....
I'd rather have some 'clean hiss' (which is underneath the music signal), and a more revealing/detailed sound, than 'silence', as it were, and a more 'opaque'/less dynamic sound. What you don't want is to strangle the music (however subtly), simply to eliminate noise that you can't hear when the music is playing.
Do you see what I'm getting at? :)
Marco.
brian2957
07-08-2014, 11:21
You know , I hadn't really thought about it too much but that was exactly the effect / difference I was getting when I tried both cables , one with the shield connected . I couldn't have put that better myself . In my simple world the cable sounds better to me in my system or it doesn.t :lol:
Does noise picked up by interconnects manifest itself as hiss? Most hiss from the speakers is created within the electronics themselves.
I don't know, Mark. I certainly don't get any hiss here with MC5000s in the equation, but John (potaoha) indicated earlier that, for whatever reason, it was an issue in his system :)
The point I was making was that if I had to choose between putting up with a little hiss, or low-level noise other than hum, possibly due to my interconnect cables being unshielded (as long as I couldn't hear it when music was being played), or a notably worse sound and no hiss, I know what I'd do....
Marco.
You must get some hiss Marco - literally all systems with the kind of gain needed for a MC cartridge produce hiss (unless the output on the amp mutes when it senses no signal - which some do).
Select phono (don't put a record on though), turn the volume up to what you would normally listen at and put your ear close to the speakers - presumably you can now hear some hiss (and probably some faint hum); but none of that is coming from your interconnects it's coming from your amplification (not just yours).
Yeah sure, of course, if I crank the volume right up with no music playing. In normal circumstances, however, there is no audible hiss or hum.
Marco.
potatoha
07-08-2014, 20:03
Do you see what I'm getting at? :)Marco.
I know exactly what you mean. And my answer is yes and no, depending on the source material. When I'm listening to say for example pop, rock, and multi-instrument jazz, the low level background noise doesn't matter much, but when I'm listening to some quietly recorded wide dynamic range recordings or some single instrument classical / jazz pieces, increased background noise does matter a lot to me. Recordings such as Kuijken's Bach Sonatas and Partitas on HM, Kondrashin's Scheherazade on Philips, Chung & Dutoit's Tzigane on Decca, Kremer's opening violin in Pärt's Tabula Rasa on ECM etc. are some of my references, all in vinyl, to determine if a system's noise floor is too high or not. In my current system and environment, un-shielded MC5000s raise the noise floor to the extent that distracts me from focusing on the music. I then terminated my MC5000 in pseudo-balanced and the noise floor is lowered without sacrificing the cable's plus points and without making the sound less dynamic or dull. In my system / environment, grounded shield MC5000 sounds certainly better, at least quieter.
Hi John,
That's absolutely fine, then. The bottom line is that the 'right' way (in terms of shielding) is that which makes you enjoy your music more! :)
Marco.
potatoha
07-08-2014, 20:12
Does noise picked up by interconnects manifest itself as hiss? Most hiss from the speakers is created within the electronics themselves.
My test is done with the cables connected only to the preamp with no source. Yes, I do get all sorts of noise, a la hiss, crackle, pop, hum, etc. with un-shielded MC5000s past 12 o'clock volume. On the other hand, it's dead quiet with grounded shield MC5000s near max volume.
potatoha
07-08-2014, 20:14
Hi John,
That's absolutely fine, then. The bottom line is that the 'right' way (in terms of shielding) is that which makes you enjoy your music more! :)
Marco.
Exactly! :)
My test is done with the cables connected only to the preamp with no source. Yes, I do get all sorts of noise, a la hiss, crackle, pop, hum, etc. with un-shielded MC5000s past 12 o'clock volume. On the other hand, it's dead quiet with grounded shield MC5000s near max volume.
If they are not connected to the source then they are acting as an antenna, they need to be terminated by the source impedance for it to be meaningful.
potatoha
07-08-2014, 23:24
If they are not connected to the source then they are acting as an antenna, they need to be terminated by the source impedance for it to be meaningful.
Yes, it is a simple test to show how noisy an environment you're in and how effective a shielding can be. However, it still is quieter with the shield in place with the source connected than unshielded. Interestingly, I'd run the same test in my previous place where un-shielded interconnects didn't introduce as much noise. Furthermore, even if the load impedance is significantly larger than the source impedance, you still need shielding in noisy environments.
brian2957
12-08-2014, 10:37
I have an 0.5m pair of the Klotz MC5000 / MS Audio interconnects already made up . If anyone wants to try these on a 'try before you buy ' basis please drop me a PM . All I ask is that you pay the return postage ( usually £1.24 first class Royal Mail ) if they're not for you .
No snap crackle 'n pop after 12:00 here with my MC5000's.
Could it be dependent on how the rest of your system is wired up?
Hi Brian,
If these are still available when the time comes I would be interested in trying them. I have a remote control volume gizmo kit on it's way from China but I've no real idea when it will arrive or how long it will take me to put it together but on completion I would compare them, between it and the mono block amps, with some pure silver, with and without cryo treatment. No problem if someone pips me to the post :) .
Dave.
brian2957
12-08-2014, 11:41
Not a problem Dave . I have the plugs and cable here to make another set up . Just drop me a PM when you're ready and I'll get something fixed out for you .
If they are not connected to the source then they are acting as an antenna, they need to be terminated by the source impedance for it to be meaningful.
No - the shield needs to be connected to the point of lowest electrical potential, which may or may not be at the source. The point of lowest electrical potential is the mains earth and the point where the signal return connects to it (along with the metalwork of the case). This will not be at the source if the source is double insulated and uses a two core mains lead.
If the cable has its shield connected to earth at the preamplifier, then regardless of whether the other end is connected to a source or not, the pick-up of noise will be minimal.
No - the shield needs to be connected to the point of lowest electrical potential, which may or may not be at the source. The point of lowest electrical potential is the mains earth and the point where the signal return connects to it (along with the metalwork of the case). This will not be at the source if the source is double insulated and uses a two core mains lead.
If the cable has its shield connected to earth at the preamplifier, then regardless of whether the other end is connected to a source or not, the pick-up of noise will be minimal.
Re-read what potatoha wrote Barry. There is no shield and no source connected.
Re-read what potatoha wrote Barry. There is no shield and no source connected.
My test is done with the cables connected only to the preamp with no source. Yes, I do get all sorts of noise, a la hiss, crackle, pop, hum, etc. with un-shielded MC5000s past 12 o'clock volume. On the other hand, it's dead quiet with grounded shield MC5000s near max volume.
"un-shielded MC5000" = "all sorts of noise, a la hiss, crackle, pop and hum",
"grounded shield MC5000" = "dead quiet".
The above observations were made with no source connected.
If the MC5000 cable was connected between a source and preamp, then it could well function correctly without the shield being connected anywhere. It would depend on the environment.
I have heard unscreened cables (made from 300 Ohm aerial feeder) working well in a system, with no obvious pick-up of interference.
Guys,
can I remind y'all this is a sales thread...kinda? :scratch:
I've just made up a few runs of MC5000 cable, but I've used KLE Harmony connectors rather than the MS Audio plugs, as I could not find a supplier of those. I followed Brian's model, and left the shield unconnected at both ends. The result in my system is hiss, hum and other interference. Other than this background noise, the cables do sound good, but I will have to do something about the hiss. I'll be rewiring the plugs so that the shield is connected at the source end, and I'll post the results in a few days.
If anyone is interested, the cables are installed between my DAC and Pre amp, and between the Pre amp and the Power amps (I bi amp, so there are two pairs of cables between the pre and the power amps).
I've just made up a few runs of MC5000 cable, but I've used KLE Harmony connectors rather than the MS Audio plugs, as I could not find a supplier of those. I followed Brian's model, and left the shield unconnected at both ends. The result in my system is hiss, hum and other interference. Other than this background noise, the cables do sound good, but I will have to do something about the hiss. I'll be rewiring the plugs so that the shield is connected at the source end, and I'll post the results in a few days.
Interesting, Graeme… Do let us know how you get on :)
Marco.
Guys,
can I remind y'all this is a sales thread...kinda? :scratch:
Perhaps it should be pruned a bit then with quite a lot of the more recent comment (including my own) moved to a thread of its own?
brian2957
15-08-2014, 20:54
:scratch: Including my own sets and those made for others I've never had any problem / feedback suggesting that these cables cause problems without the shield connected .
Interesting, Graeme… Do let us know how you get on :)
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Well the MC5000 cables have been modified so that the shield is connected at the source end, and the background hum has gone! I must stress that I can only comment on the effect in my set up. As has been said many times before, system synergy is fairly important.... Brian says he has had no one report a similar problem with any of the cables he has supplied to date.
Soundwise, first impressions are very good, bass in particular seems tighter, but I suspect that a few more hours running in will be beneficial.
brian2957
16-08-2014, 15:58
Interesting Graeme . As ever it's what sounds best in your system and to your ears . :) These cables do indeed seem to benefit from 20-30 hours of use.
brian2957
21-08-2014, 20:03
I now have available Klotz MC5000 or Klotz AC110 cables fitted with MS Audio silver plated plugs .
Hi Brian,
How did you get on with the directionality of the MC5000s? ;)
Marco.
brian2957
21-08-2014, 20:28
:lol: Sorry mate it went back the same way as it was . It sounds better that way in my system . Just goes to show that not only are cables system dependent , but so is their direction , and the ears that are listening to them seems to play a big part :eyebrows:
No worries, at least you tried it :)
Marco.
brian2957
21-08-2014, 20:44
Aye , probably try it again if I make any changes or if I get the ' wonder ifs ' again in the future :scratch:
I now have available Klotz MC5000 or Klotz AC110 cables fitted with MS Audio silver plated plugs .
Just received mine and first impressions are very favorable indeed, they've only been in for a couple of hours so apparently aren't "run in" yet and already have ousted some well respected ic's, i forsee a cable clearout shortly and a lot more business for Brian.
Truly excellent cables Brian
You'll have to add speaker cable to the range soon Brian. :cool:
brian2957
29-09-2014, 17:49
Hah ! This cable ain't easy to work with as you probably know Kevin :)
I didn't find it difficult?
I used a coax stripper, sa pair of snips and a 50W soldering iron. Job done.
Just waiting for the braid and clamps to turn up, and it will be job done.
brian2957
29-09-2014, 19:58
I didn't find it difficult?
I used a coax stripper, sa pair of snips and a 50W soldering iron. Job done.
Just waiting for the braid and clamps to turn up, and it will be job done.
Aye but yours are only 1m long matey :lol:
Size isn't everything. :ner:
It's what you do with it that counts.
My 5m semi-balanced Klotz MC5000 does the hardwork.
brian2957
29-09-2014, 20:58
Hah ! Only people with a small length say things like that :ner::lol:
brian2957
29-09-2014, 21:01
Just received mine and first impressions are very favorable indeed, they've only been in for a couple of hours so apparently aren't "run in" yet and already have ousted some well respected ic's, i forsee a cable clearout shortly and a lot more business for Brian.
Truly excellent cables Brian
Thanks Martin , glad you like the cables :)
Sovereign
29-09-2014, 21:27
Good move Hudz!
My 5m semi-balanced Klotz MC5000 does the hardwork.
Aye, if you believe that a ‘semi’ is capable of doing any 'hard work'! :D
;)
Marco.
Just received mine and first impressions are very favorable indeed, they've only been in for a couple of hours so apparently aren't "run in" yet and already have ousted some well respected ic's, i forsee a cable clearout shortly and a lot more business for Brian.
Truly excellent cables Brian
Right, they've been burning in all night and i can definately say they are staying put.
Currently doing duty between Rega dac and class A integrated and WOW what a difference, music is much more lifelike and lively, cds that were previously thought too "numb" sounding to play are now being rediscovered and enjoyed, and well recorded ones now sound sublime:) i is one happy bunny:D
+1 for some speaker cable, c'mon Brian you can do it
Good move Hudz!
Certainly was James, best bang for buck i've had in hifi terms
The speaker cable had a similar effect in my system, but I think it all depends on what you currently have.
I'd like to hear a few other peoples opinions on it before recommending it across the board.
Brian sent you a pm
Peter
wee tee cee
14-10-2014, 11:19
Which speaker cable are you guys using and how are you terminating it?
Have a look at the "I'm thinking of some new speaker cable" thread.
wee tee cee
14-10-2014, 23:44
ta
hi Brian,
Sent you a pm. after reading 19 pages, tempted to order the cable from you but just need to find out if the plugs fit Chord Hugo. if anybody tried the plugs with the Hugo, pls let me know. thanks
brian2957
03-11-2014, 22:12
Hi , I think you have to have 5 or more posts to use the PM system . I've just had a look at images of the Hugo and see that it has recessed RCA inputs . The MS Audio plugs are very wide and I think it would be unlikely that they would fit without some kind of adaptor .
Sovereign
03-11-2014, 22:30
I still have to try the Sovereign bonkers configuration. You never know it may make it the cable of all cables........or make no difference at all ;-)
brian2957
03-11-2014, 22:34
Aye , you're one cable short of a full loom James :lol:
yes recessed weird RCA outputs and many plugs simply don't fit. i guess using an adaptor defeats the purpose of a good cable :(
Hello Brian,
PM (and order) sent.
Best,
brian2957
07-11-2014, 14:38
You have a PM Luca
icehockeyboy
13-11-2014, 16:58
I can't seem to see any reference to price on these?
May I ask how much for a half metre pair delivered is?
Thanks.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33332-MS-Audio-Klotz-MC5000-interconnects-build-offer-for-all-AoS-members&p=565461#post565461
Does this help?
brian2957
13-11-2014, 18:06
You have PM Craig.
icehockeyboy
14-11-2014, 09:54
Thanks Brian and CageyH
Based on what I here read I took a punt on the klotz 5000. I have has a pair of Brians klotz 5000 in my system for the last few weeks replacing more expensive interconnects and they are excellent
Brian in an absolute gent to deal with.
Peter
Bourneendboy
16-11-2014, 13:36
Same here!
brian2957
16-11-2014, 14:20
Thanks gents , it has been a pleasure dealing with both of you :)
Hope all this cable 'stuff' has sorted itself out now :)
I'm still using the Klotz (in addition to others;)) and it fits in beautifully, the MS plugs (they seem to have a cycle of different ebay sellers?) being slick and smooth in use as well. Hopefully 'we're' all happy now...
I've had a go at the MS Audio/MC5000 combo as well, courtesy Brian (and my wallet), and I have to say I'm impressed. Among many others, I've listened to a couple of recordings I had the opportunity to attend to and that have since been released on CD. Well, with Brian's cables they sounded exactly how I remembered them from the studio monitoring chair. These ICs are super linear, let you hear plenty of details and never sound tiring. Price/pleasure ratio is of the highest order.
Just my 2p. :)
And mine!
However, we’ll see tomorrow if Cagey’s ‘wonder flex’ can oust it…. ;)
Marco.
"Wonder flex" :lol:
It was also nicknamed the "French Connection."
I await your opinion with interest....
I just wanted to add my tuppence to this thread, as I have now been using a single set of Brian's cables for a wee while. I confess to being in the "it's just a bloody cable" cable of not understanding why people would pay hundreds (if not thousands) of pounds for interconnects - but I am open to persuasion if anyone wants to arrange a grand AB-style shoot out at some point! :)
But... ignoring the 'sound' coming from my system and focussing on the cables themselves, I am currently measuring up for more because these one's that Brian supplied are damn fine quality! Great service, great product, and I am certainly going to be a repeat customer!
Thanks Brian!
brian2957
27-12-2014, 02:37
You're welcome David . I'm glad these interconnects are hitting the spot . They were the result of collaboration between many members of AOS during the last year . Let's hope 2015 brings forth some more VFM SPPPV cables , or other pieces of excellent VFM hifi equipment , for the members of this fantastic forum to benefit from . AOS doing what it does best :)
I would like to wish all members here , and elsewhere , a happy , peaceful , and prosperous 2015 :cool:
I just wanted to add my tuppence to this thread, as I have now been using a single set of Brian's cables for a wee while. I confess to being in the "it's just a bloody cable" cable of not understanding why people would pay hundreds (if not thousands) of pounds for interconnects - but I am open to persuasion if anyone wants to arrange a grand AB-style shoot out at some point! :)
But... ignoring the 'sound' coming from my system and focussing on the cables themselves, I am currently measuring up for more because these one's that Brian supplied are damn fine quality! Great service, great product, and I am certainly going to be a repeat customer!
Thanks Brian!
+1:thumbsup:
I have now run in my MS Audio/Klotz MC5000 cable which is utilised between my Croft pre and power amplifiers and I must say I am impressed.
The cable I replaced was another home brew effort but it did work very well. I have on a number of occasions replaced it temporarily with some much more expensive but excellent Chord IC's, however these have been out of my price range and would have cost more than my amplifiers and therefore unjustified in the context of my system where I could get bigger bangs for bucks upgrading the TT or Cartridge.
The MS Audio / Klotz cable has been on my radar since its conception here on the AOS forum. I did indeed try the Gothams which were proposed at the beginning of this cable quest but found them so so in the context of my system. I have not followed the ins and outs of the MS Audio/Klotz cable and to be truthful I only went back and read all the associated posts after I bought the cable!
I therefore bought it fairly blind although i had read some positive posts but as in all things HIFI a cable or piece of equipment has to be evaluated with ones own system.
May i just say that I ordered the cable from Brian and he has been excellent to deal with from the outset even managing to get my cable to me Christmas eve which coincided with a nice long break in which I could evaluate the IC. His workmanship is extremely professional and the cost including labour very reasonable.
Considering its cost, this cable is fantastic value for money especially taking into consideration its performance. As with all good cables they should not really add anything to your system but allow more of what its capable of doing to. I found the MS Audio/Klotz combination extremely well balanced in my system allowing the whole presentation of the music to flow with great incite especially in the mid /bass region. My previous cable gave a forced account in some areas of treble detail which could go over the top into brightness and in the upper midrange I used to get a little harshness, this has now disappeared. Vocals are very natural and full and the whole sound stage and music presentation is very solid.
Funny thing was I always felt my system could be a little bit delicate in how it handled the soundstage and everything placed in it. This cable has firmed this up considerably and made everything more wholesome and substantial. It is always difficult to describe how components affect a system but this is the one area that I feel the cable has benefited my system the most.
Once again I would like to thank Brian and everyone who contributed to help develop this cable. It definitely gets a big:thumbsup:from me.
brian2957
31-12-2014, 16:18
Thanks James , glad you like the AOS VFM SPPV interconnects . When are you starting the quest for an AOS speaker cable Marco :eyebrows:
topoxforddoc
25-01-2015, 14:16
Brian,
Have you made any tonearm leads yet?
Charlie
istari_knight
25-01-2015, 16:56
Forgot this thread existed - Dont come in this section very often :o
I'm also using some of Brian's fantastic cables, lets just say I have no urge whatsoever to change them :thumbsup:
brian2957
25-01-2015, 18:00
Brian,
Have you made any tonearm leads yet?
Charlie
Sorry Charlie I haven't tried making tonearm cables . I don't have a turntable :sofa::uhho: so the need has never arisen .
brian2957
25-01-2015, 18:00
Forgot this thread existed - Dont come in this section very often :o
I'm also using some of Brian's fantastic cables, lets just say I have no urge whatsoever to change them :thumbsup:
Thanks James , glad you like the cables :)
topoxforddoc
25-01-2015, 19:26
Sorry Charlie I haven't tried making tonearm cables . I don't have a turntable :sofa::uhho: so the need has never arisen .
Thank anyway.
Charlie, for seriously good tonearm cables, at very affordable prices, nothing touches the stuff made by this chap: http://www.back-promo.co.uk/html/423_5phono_litz.html
I use his 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz, and it’s superb (as shown above) - way better than some commercial ‘high-end' tonearm cables at five times the price!! :trust:
Marco.
When are you starting the quest for an AOS speaker cable Marco :eyebrows:
Lol - don’t Klotz do speaker cables? If so, choose some, fire some decent plugs on them, and they’ll undoubtedly be excellent! Job done :)
I’m fairly settled on speaker cable, though, and so doubt I’d change from my VDHs. However, those are £50 per metre…..
Marco.
cyclopse
26-01-2015, 17:46
Charlie, for seriously good tonearm cables, at very affordable prices, nothing touches the stuff made by this chap: http://www.back-promo.co.uk/html/423_5phono_litz.html
I use his 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz, and it’s superb (as shown above) - way better than some commercial ‘high-end’ tonearm cables at five times the price!! :trust:
Marco.
Was there a reason why you didn't continue with the Yannis line for interconnects?
Hi Stephen,
Yes, for some reason (as good as the interconnects were), they just didn’t hit the spot for me as much as his tonearm cables, which in my opinion are exemplary. It could’ve been a system synergy thing, though! :)
Marco.
cyclopse
26-01-2015, 21:38
Hi Marco,
Interestingly between pre and power the klotz wasnt cutting it and the Yannis offers a more sophisticated sound. Between dac and pre the Klotz is shockingly good and a warmer presentation to the Valhalla it replaced. For speaker cable I am now using Audience AU24se which is very thin in diameter but this doesn't compromise the tonal balance.
Regards
Steve
Has anyone ever tried one if these as a digital interconnect, or is there an equivalent digital cable?
There are digital cables available - http://shop.klotz-ais.com/cgi-bin/quickorder/lshop.cgi?action=showrub&wkid=1422722076-7193&ls=e&nc=&rubnum=pro.audio.bulk.dam&artnum=&file=&gesamt_zeilen=&p8=
walpurgis
31-01-2015, 16:43
Has anyone ever tried one if these as a digital interconnect, or is there an equivalent digital cable?
I don't know about Klotz, but I've had excellent results using analogue interconnects as digital cables when the need has arisen.
I now have a source of very fine digital interconnect cable and make my own (anybody need an outstanding digi lead? I might be persuaded to turn a couple out).
Thanks for the link.
Walpurgis - that sounds interesting. If you were to be persuaded what sort if price point would you be thinking? And have you compared them to many commercial cables? I was toying with trying the oyaide cable that people seem to like, but it a little expensive.
walpurgis
31-01-2015, 17:42
Thanks for the link.
Walpurgis - that sounds interesting. If you were to be persuaded what sort if price point would you be thinking? And have you compared them to many commercial cables? I was toying with trying the oyaide cable that people seem to like, but it a little expensive.
Yes. I've had several pricey digital leads (I still have a Townshend) and this stuff beats all of them apart from a little Deltron cable I've had for years, which I suspect is from the same source as mine.
I have some left off the roll I bought and can turn out a 0.8m made up cable for £17 delivered. That includes decent new RCA phono plugs.
I've also got quite a lot of Van Damme 268-011 coax interconnect lead to use up if anybody is interested.
I'd be very interested in a cable if you decide to get the soldering iron out. I just need to check that 0.8m is long enough.
walpurgis
31-01-2015, 18:44
I'd be very interested in a cable if you decide to get the soldering iron out. I just need to check that 0.8m is long enough.
I can make it a little longer. Somebody else might as well get the benefit, I've used all I need.
I can make it a little longer. Somebody else might as well get the benefit, I've used all I need.
It's great cable..In fact both the van damme and the digi are
If you could make one a metre long that would be perfect. That's what my current one is, but it's at full stretch so not sure I could use a shorter one. If you were happy to make a cable I'll happily pay via bank transfer or whatever's easiest for you.
Many thanks, Si
Check this out, folks:
http://youtu.be/OpMfzC3UiEQ
;)
Marco.
Was listening to one of Brians klotz cables today, in your configuration Marco. Sounded might fine and preferred it to a slic one.
We knew that Klotz were good already!
Any sign of the "special" at Marco towers yet?
We knew that already!
I will just shut up then eh;)
I will just shut up then eh;)
I should have pressed the post button before watching the video. :eyebrows:
Was listening to one of Brians klotz cables today, in your configuration Marco. Sounded might fine and preferred it to a slic one.
Nice one, mate. That’s what it’s all about: the AoS community coming together and creating a product that collectively improves our enjoyment of music!
Brian’s got a nice sounding little system [and good taste in biscuits], hasn’t he? :)
Marco.
We knew that Klotz were good already!
Any sign of the "special" at Marco towers yet?
Not yet, dude. Perhaps Monday? Will let you know when it arrives :)
Marco.
brian2957
31-01-2015, 20:55
We were at Garys place today Marco . My system has changed somewhat since your visit . I'm now using a battleship Sony TA F770ES instead of the Sony TA FB930R and a pair of MA R852s instead of the Rega EL8s . Sounds much better to my ears . :D
You're more than welcome to pop in for a listen next time you're up this way .
Ah, no worries. Will do, matey! Should be up visiting Snapper around late Feb/March time :)
Btw, do me a favour (unless it’s already happened and I’ve missed it), report/highlight all your ’Scottish mafia' bake-offs in the Community Network section, as it adds value to the forum and is of interest to many members - churz! :cool:
Marco.
brian2957
31-01-2015, 21:09
OK will do .
cyclopse
01-02-2015, 09:58
Was listening to one of Brians klotz cables today, in your configuration Marco. Sounded might fine and preferred it to a slic one.
And comes in at a twentieth of the price.
It's all down to personal taste.
Indeed, but there’s sufficient evidence now (the volume of users, especially those who’ve ditched much more expensive cables for it) to make a reasonable claim that the MC5000, with MS Audio plugs, is a veritable ‘giant-killer’.
Quite simply, the level of performance on offer, for such little outlay, is remarkable. As such, it’s unquestionably a product conceived in the true AoS ‘SPPV' tradition :)
Marco.
You won't find me arguing about that.
I will always be on the look out for a better cable though, although it will be tough to beat.
Many thanks to walpurgis (Geoff) for making me a 1m digital cable. Now that I've shook off a case of man-flu I'm enjoying it :)
walpurgis
10-02-2015, 21:37
Many thanks to walpurgis (Geoff) for making me a 1m digital cable. Now that I've shook off a case of man-flu I'm enjoying it :)
Glad you're happy with it Simon. Thought you would be.
I may be persuaded to make a couple more if there are any takers.
Glad you're happy with it Simon. Thought you would be.
I may be persuaded to make a couple more if there are any takers.
Good digi's those.....:D
I have recently received another Klotz cable built by Brian but had it configured differently, this time with silver MS Audio plugs and a floating shield attached only from the send end.
I have been very impressed with this new constructed Klotz cable as it gives me a little more air and transparency over the previous configuration which had Rhodium plugs and fully screened cable. Detail is also impressive and works well with my Croft amps.
Yet again cannot recommend more highly Brian's workmanship and service and indeed a great cable for the money.:)
....or many multiples of money more, mate, I can assure you. Brian's a top bloke and his attitude and willingness to help others epitomises what's great about the AoS community! :cool:
Marco.
He makes 'em well and they look the part too :) My own are now fully floating (screen not connected at either end) and no hum or induced noises.
pitadavespa
18-04-2015, 15:27
Hi Brian,
PM sent.
Thanks
brian2957
18-04-2015, 16:48
PM replied to Luis .
Brian - I have come to this thread very late in the day.
I was directed this way from another thread where I was asking about how folks have been wiring 2 core screened mic cable for use as interconnect.
I have read the various discusions here about this and while your method of wiring with a diconnected screen is different to what I have done in the past I am willing to try this as folks seem to find it works, regardless.
I have been using Stage Line MLC-152 which varies from the MC5000 in that it has a single copper braid which is silver plated, the MC5000 uses a double plain copper screen. I tried connecting the screen at one end and found similar results to what you described early in the thread, so I will try disconnecting it, which makes its construction pretty irrelevant anyway.
Just in case there is some other difference which is not apparent I have just ordered some MC5000 to compare.
One thing I don't like about these leads is the MS Audio plugs used, as far as I can tell from pictures, the ones you use "Star line" ? do not have any form of strain relief or cable clamp, the weight of the leads just hang off the solder joints on the very thin conductors - Is this right?
Or is there some form of clamp not visable on their shots?
There is a grub screw in the side of the plug. It can help to build up the cable diameter with heat shrink to make sure that it does the job it was intended to do.
brian2957
20-04-2015, 14:08
Yup , if you build up the cable diameter with heatshrink the little grubscrew is a very effective way of clamping the cable . If you want to try a single core shielded cable I would recommend Klotz AC110 , another of my favourite cables .
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