View Full Version : PetRat HiFi
Parkie37
11-08-2016, 08:20
Hi Don. I sold the Io1 a few months ago .... this is the IQ1, the bottom of the range moving magnet cartridge.
Well gosh, now that I have my reading glasses on, I can see that! That would make more sense.....
Looks to be a Goldring derivative?
The tt is very droolworthy by the way!
montesquieu
11-08-2016, 11:04
Looks to be a Goldring derivative?
The tt is very droolworthy by the way!
It's a super cartridge, the original Goldring is a cracker but the various AN MM cartridges do kick it up a level I think (and they seem to be slightly lower compliance as well which suits my taste better). The IQ3 uses the same cantilever and tip as the IO ... and gets jolly close to its sound, considering the price difference.
And yes Peter's TT is a fab looking thing (a return visit is long overdue, I need to get that organised!).
Parkie37
12-08-2016, 00:13
It's a super cartridge, the original Goldring is a cracker but the various AN MM cartridges do kick it up a level I think (and they seem to be slightly lower compliance as well which suits my taste better). The IQ3 uses the same cantilever and tip as the IO ... and gets jolly close to its sound, considering the price difference.
And yes Peter's TT is a fab looking thing (a return visit is long overdue, I need to get that organised!).
I bet the turntable still sounds awesome even with the substantially less expensive arm and cart. It is a fabulous feature that when you have worn out the IQ1's stylus, you can order an IQ3 stylus if you are feeling flush. No changing the cartridge body. Great idea!
I have heard Tannoys that are a model up from Peter's, but are very similar in sound and when you add his amps and preamp to the equation, along with that wonderful Platine turntable, you get an incredibly musical system! I love my AN-Es, but the only speakers to tempt me away from them were the Westminster Royal SEs. Fortunately for me they were too big and too expensive. It sure was a pleasure to listen to that system though.
Got myself a matching record weight for the Platine.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160910_102439_zps5ozjjc9e.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160910_102439_zps5ozjjc9e.jpg.html)
Turn it upside down, and it's a strobe for speed -setting.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160910_102608_zps5qzh4qgv.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160910_102608_zps5qzh4qgv.jpg.html)
Details here ... http://www.lys-electronique.com/GYR33GBPA.html
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160910_102625_zpsiu5da7qs.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160910_102625_zpsiu5da7qs.jpg.html)
The Black Adder
10-09-2016, 10:17
Ooooh! Lights!
Looking very nice, Peter.
BTW the SPU is still grooving away. Love it. :)
Stunning set up Peter, this is what audiophile dreams are made of :youtheman:
Ooooh! Lights!
Looking very nice, Peter.
BTW the SPU is still grooving away. Love it. :)
Yes, it's a lovely cartridge you have, Josie ... one of the best-sounding SPUs I've owned. I should probably never have sold it :nono: :doh:
Stunning set up Peter, this is what audiophile poverty is made of :youtheman:
Corrected for accuracy, Taz :D
What a wonderful set up, congrats!
Just a comment, regarding the new turntable clamp: am I the only one that finds that with strobe light in action, it is similar to a gas hob turned on with a stilish stainless steel pot above? :-D
Now you mention it, yes it does a bit.
Gee, thanks for ruining it for me, fellas :(
OTOH, maybe it'll make me feel warmer on cold winter nights. :D
Since getting back into hi-fi around 1994, I've had quite a few of the EAR amps, and always been a fan. I started a thread on the Wam some time ago, but don't visit there anymore, so I thought I'd post the photos of some of the ones I've owned here.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/448_zpsb04ff3d3.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/448_zpsb04ff3d3.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/437_zpsd14c4723.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/437_zpsd14c4723.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/453_zps231760fe.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/453_zps231760fe.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/455_zps177a4f5f.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/455_zps177a4f5f.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213046_zps21b5fa98.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213046_zps21b5fa98.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213040_zps8e2e74f5.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213040_zps8e2e74f5.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213022_zps5b0e5b0c.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213022_zps5b0e5b0c.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213023_zps0c9f8501.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213023_zps0c9f8501.jpg.html)
I've also had the V20 (twice), 864 pre (also twice), a kit version of the 834P phonostage, and the MC4 SUT.
Pictured, top to bottom: 509 monoblock; 868P preamp; 534 power amp; 859 integrated
Arkless Electronics
19-09-2016, 14:25
I well remember being involved with the Michaelson Audio (Musical Fidelity valve gear went out under that name) Odysseus valve amp which was the original version of the EAR 534. Mf had so cheapened the design they had commissioned from TdP that they were having reliability issues, to say the least, so I was tasked with preparing a report as to where the issues were and making recommendation for changes... This I did, only for the head honcho to say "bollocks to all that leave them as they are I'm not paying an extra £20 on improved parts". Every one sold blew up within about 3 months and they were withdrawn from sale... EAR then made the job good and put them out under their own name;)
There was a massive multi box monoblocks valve set up as well which was also designed for MF by TdP and called the Chronos... something like £12,000 IIRC. I remember "blue printing" them for magazine reviews!:D
hifi_dave
19-09-2016, 16:03
Since getting back into hi-fi around 1994, I've had quite a few of the EAR amps, and always been a fan. I started a thread on the Wam some time ago, but don't visit there anymore, so I thought I'd post the photos of some of the ones I've owned here.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/448_zpsb04ff3d3.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/448_zpsb04ff3d3.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/437_zpsd14c4723.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/437_zpsd14c4723.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/453_zps231760fe.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/453_zps231760fe.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/455_zps177a4f5f.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/455_zps177a4f5f.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213046_zps21b5fa98.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213046_zps21b5fa98.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213040_zps8e2e74f5.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213040_zps8e2e74f5.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213022_zps5b0e5b0c.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213022_zps5b0e5b0c.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213023_zps0c9f8501.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213023_zps0c9f8501.jpg.html)
I've also had the V20 (twice), 864 pre (also twice), a kit version of the 834P phonostage, and the MC4 SUT.
Bloody 'eck - looks like my demo room right down to the rack and worktop..:)
Do you have that phrase saying something like from one ditch to another etc. :)
:D You have great taste, Dave.
Actually, Mika, the 868 and 509s lasted many years, fed by a Naim CDX2 or SME10 turntable, and driving a lovely pair of Neat MFS speakers. It wasn't until after I discovered forums that things got a bit out of hand with the box swapping :doh:
Anyway, it will all soon be coming to an end :eyebrows:
jandl100
19-09-2016, 18:07
Ah, copper chassis 509/ii amps? - gorgeous, I had a pair many moons ago.
Seriously gutsy amps.
Edit: Hmm, no, probably not copper - steel with wood reflections?
Have you seen the copper chassis units? .... :stalks: :drool:
montesquieu
19-09-2016, 18:38
Had a few myself ...
509 monoblocks
V20 (twice)
Acute CD (Mk1)
MC3 step-up
EAR 899
... great minds again, Peter!
Parkie37
20-09-2016, 06:33
:D You have great taste, Dave.
Actually, Mika, the 868 and 509s lasted many years, fed by a Naim CDX2 or SME10 turntable, and driving a lovely pair of Neat MFS speakers. It wasn't until after I discovered forums that things got a bit out of hand with the box swapping :doh:
Anyway, it will all soon be coming to an end :eyebrows:
All coming to an end soon? What....did you buy a Bose Soundwave clock radio?!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I understand completely. I feel the same way about all of the Audio Note gear that I have owned. They have given me the most musical enjoyment of any gear that I have ever owned. It has taken quite a while to come together as a deal, but my dealer is making the preamp and mono blocks that I am buying (used) just as good as new. They (my dealer) have an amazing technician and he has gone through each piece with a fine toothed comb, to make them perform like new or better. There are some brand new resistors and caps that are in the mail and on their way to Victoria, BC. I mention that because I am the same as you. I am at the final point of my journey. I can't see ever upgrading from these new components. This will be my final system - or rather the system that I use for a very, very long time. I hope that you are headed in the same direction. I will only change a cable or two, as I am borrowing some power cords and interconnects to get me through to the point of affording new ones : )
Your systems always look so musical Peter, I hope this final change makes you happy : )
Don
Going for different maker, but my thoughts are pretty much the same. Need to stop wandering around with all the nice stuff and just get one that fits my preferences and stick to that one.. :)
All coming to an end soon? What....did you buy a Bose Soundwave clock radio?!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I understand completely. I feel the same way about all of the Audio Note gear that I have owned. They have given me the most musical enjoyment of any gear that I have ever owned. It has taken quite a while to come together as a deal, but my dealer is making the preamp and mono blocks that I am buying (used) just as good as new. They (my dealer) have an amazing technician and he has gone through each piece with a fine toothed comb, to make them perform like new or better. There are some brand new resistors and caps that are in the mail and on their way to Victoria, BC. I mention that because I am the same as you. I am at the final point of my journey. I can't see ever upgrading from these new components. This will be my final system - or rather the system that I use for a very, very long time. I hope that you are headed in the same direction. I will only change a cable or two, as I am borrowing some power cords and interconnects to get me through to the point of affording new ones : )
Your systems always look so musical Peter, I hope this final change makes you happy : )
Don
Well done, Don ... that's a brilliant decision! Look forward to seeing the (better than) new amps on your system thread. :clap:
Going for different maker, but my thoughts are pretty much the same. Need to stop wandering around with all the nice stuff and just get one that fits my preferences and stick to that one.. :)
OK, Mika ... let's follow Don's lead ... we are no longer audiokitaholics ... we can beat this disease together! :grouphug:
Care to join us, Tom? :D
brian2957
21-09-2016, 07:30
When's the first meeting . I think I may attend :)
^^ Yeah, right. I can already imagine the first meeting.. :lol:
brian2957
21-09-2016, 10:26
Hah ! so can I :fence: :donk: :grouphug:
Reading a recent blog from DoctorJohn ... http://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/review-ear-912-vs-868-vs-324.html ... it is apparent that Tim de Paravicini has several phonostage designs in current production.
The first is the popular 834P, which is based on three ECC83 valves for the mm stage and 'small' SUTs fitted for the mc stage. This is the same circuit that also appeared in the 864 preamp, which also incorporated the circuitry of the 834L linestage, with additional XLR connectivity. I built and used the kit version of the 834P, the CLEAR, for some years in the late 90s. The CLEAR also incorporated a passive pot and selector switch for line duties. I always thought the mm stage was the star of the show, with the little mc SUTs being rather compromised. Sound quality was unapologetically 'analogue', which was very welcome with a couple of rather strident ss amps I had at the time. I also found a slight bass emphasis worked well with small stand-mount speakers. In addition, I owned the 864 preamp on a couple of occasions, most notably in conjunction with some ATC active speakers, where it added a hint of much-needed 'warmth' to the mix, connected directly via its XLR outputs.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/474_zpsc8217a4e.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/474_zpsc8217a4e.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/475_zps21a79398.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/475_zps21a79398.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/476_zps3857b415.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/476_zps3857b415.jpg.html)
The second design is the one used in the 868P preamp I had for many years (see pictures in post 263). It is also the basis of the 88PB phonostage, and uses PCC88 valves and a FET in a hybrid circuit. The 868 has the large MC3 SUT fitted, giving 3 gain choices (via internal jumpers), whereas the 88PB has only two gain choices, again via internal jumpers. The sound of the 868 had a much more 'neutral' balance than the 834P, with greater detail and balance.
The third design is seen in the 324 phonostage, which has the transisistor circuitry of the 'statement' 312 Control Centre design. It still uses internal SUTs for the mc section, but the star of the show is a fully adjustable mm stage. I have never heard either of these, but if I was into mm cartridges in a big way, I'd certainly be looking at the 324.
The fourth circuit is the one in the top-of-the-range 912 preamp, which is implemented using all PCC88s, and the big MC4 SUTs giving 4 gain options. I have owned the stand-alone version of the SUTs, and was very impressed ... the only reason I eventually opted for another was that I needed slightly more gain for the Io cartridge I was using at the time.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213051_zps95cfbfbf.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213051_zps95cfbfbf.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/EAR-Yoshino/251213058_zps033715e2.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/EAR-Yoshino/251213058_zps033715e2.jpg.html)
The 912 phono circuit is all valve, in contrast to the hybrid 868/88PB circuit, and also utilises custom inductors in the equalisation circuit. Some reviews state that the 868 is the same circuitry as the 912, only differing by having fewer features, but clearly the phonostages are different designs.
In addition, some earlier models, such as the G88, utilised different valves in different circuits, but the four above seem to be TdP's current phono-stage solutions.
The search for the perfect power amp for the Canterburys has been a bit of a theme of this thread. In many ways, the WAD 300b (original, interstage transformer version) was the most memorable. What it did right, it did superbly well, with the only downsides being in its bass performance, and bit of residual hum with the high gain / high sensitivity set-up I was using. Rightly or wrongly, the good stuff I attributed to the lack of global negative feedback and simple circuit, something equally true of the Audion 300b SE and the Trafomatic Experience Two. OTOH, it really suffered in not being able to deliver decent bass with the 15 inch Tannoys. I am convinced that this wasn't just a case of not enough Watts, as others have reported excellent bass with such things as Wavac 300B SETs used with modern Canterburys. I have always had a suspicion it was more to do with how, and how quickly, the amp delivers its current capability. Probably the best small amp to be paired with these speakers was the EAR 859 (pictured last in post 263). This almost managed the bass properly, but not quite, although everything else about the presentation was nice and solid. Incidentally, I borrowed an 869 (the current version of the 859), and was shocked that it had a totally different sound, almost like a high-feedback transistor amp, which I didn't like at all.
Anyway, when Chris recently put up his 861 for sale, I decided to give it a go. It is, essentially, a push-pull version of the 859 (more current capability), and features a lack of negative feedback due to the inherent linearity of the design. The 861 is a rare beast, almost never coming up second-hand, as owners cling on once purchased. It is much-beloved by electrostatic speaker users, but I'd never heard of one being paired with big Tannoys, so it was a bit of a gamble really, all based on a hunch really :eek:
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160925_103237_zpssmrnltuw.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160925_103237_zpssmrnltuw.jpg.html)
Well, all's well that ends well. It's just what I'd hoped it'd be ... very happy :D
walpurgis
25-09-2016, 10:14
My mate has one. He seems happy with it driving Tannoy Chatsworth golds and largish Sonus Fabers. Mind you he also uses a dinky Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro with equal success.
Very classy Peter... probably very expensive too lol. Like the look
My mate has one. He seems happy with it driving Tannoy Chatsworth golds and largish Sonus Fabers. Mind you he also uses a dinky Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro with equal success.
Good to hear, Geoff.
Yes, I had that Monarchy too .. for a short while. Nice, pleasant 'musical' amp, but a lot of the finest detail went missing with the Canterburys, with a 'rounded' tone hiding a lot (e.g plucked bass sounding like a thump, rather than the nuanced sound it really is). Very listenable with small Harbeths, though. And ... yes, I know you're a fan, and I'd agree that Monarchy amps are great value for money, and probably better than 90% of transistor amps out there :D
One of my impressions of the RFC Canterbury was how clean and neutral they were compared to a traditional Tannoy design. So not surprising that they make more demands of the amplification.
walpurgis
25-09-2016, 11:21
a lot of the finest detail went missing
The SM-70 Pro is a little more laid back than the SM-70, which is more lucid. However, Having played about with pre-amps, I've got the balance just right for my Tannoys. Certainly no lack of detail here.
ovlov854
28-09-2016, 08:52
Hi Peter
So I see that you have made the move from the 534 to the mighty 861!
Love yo hear your thoughts and impressions of this as I have contemplated and coveted the 861 for some time
But as you say....rocking horse poo
I have put my 8L6 away for a while and am using a SiriuS (Gamut) poweramp for a while.
Curiously this sounds more valve than the 8L6 so the jury is still out
Dauntless
28-09-2016, 12:31
Good to hear, Geoff.
Yes, I had that Monarchy too .. for a short while. Nice, pleasant 'musical' amp, but a lot of the finest detail went missing with the Canterburys, with a 'rounded' tone hiding a lot (e.g plucked bass sounding like a thump, rather than the nuanced sound it really is). Very listenable with small Harbeths, though. And ... yes, I know you're a fan, and I'd agree that Monarchy amps are great value for money, and probably better than 90% of transistor amps out there :D
Yes Peter, I would agree with you here on the SM70Pro. I have this detail problem you mention when using your ex amp alone. It is much better used as a Mono in my system with balanced inputs. One SM70Pro doesn't have enough power with my XTZ Speakers in my room. However I am currently enjoying my SDS470C Class D amp used with a valve pre . When I feel like a change I will try the two SM70's with the valve pre.
Wanted one of these for over a decade ... :D
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_162405_zpskhplopri.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_162405_zpskhplopri.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_162533_zpsjdimyhlg.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_162533_zpsjdimyhlg.jpg.html)
You have a very nice system there Peter. I am sure this will just add some more finesse to the sonics!
walpurgis
07-10-2016, 10:56
Great looking bit of kit Peter. Bet it sounds excellent.
Oooh, tulip needles...lovely!
Oooh, tulip needles...lovely!
That's about the only thing I don't like about it! I was promised spade needles :(
Here again, de Paravicini's years of experience designing studio gear paid off: "The Bell Labs specs from the 1930s called for a 'spade' pointer, and even required a certain yellowness of the background," he told me. "That way, you were able to see what the meters were indicating from across the room: You didn't need to know precisely what number the needle was pointing at any time."
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/1205ear/index.html#1KCXlctRtVV18Lea.99
Lol. Maybe they thought they were/are spades. One mans spade is anothers tulip i guess. Or maybe they couldnt get them. Ive a 19th century watch with beautiful tulip hands
Parkie37
07-10-2016, 23:05
Looks really nice Peter.
Parkie37
13-10-2016, 22:32
Wanted one of these for over a decade ... :D
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_162405_zpskhplopri.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_162405_zpskhplopri.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_162533_zpsjdimyhlg.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_162533_zpsjdimyhlg.jpg.html)
Those really are gorgeous! There is a fellow in Toronto who is selling a new one for £10,860.00. That is rather exclusive territory :stalks: (I guess I can't say anything :D)
He has it in silver....http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649305564-ear-yoshino-912-professional-tube-control-centre-new-no-tax/
ovlov854
18-10-2016, 10:28
OOOH the ultimate EAR
is the MC input as good as they say?
You really do have a quality system there
lordmortlock
30-10-2016, 21:30
What happened to the Leben out of interest Peter?
The Black Adder
30-10-2016, 21:37
Always wanted to hear one of those... Very nice indeed Peter.
I never knew they were that expensive to be honest... now that is a major purchase.
Jake, Josie ... to answer both your questions, the Leben was part-exchanged to get the 912. Along with selling off the Shindo and a couple other unused pieces, it has meant the 912 and 861 acquisitions have been 'cash neutral'.
Martin ... yes, the 912's mc-stage is more than adequate for my needs :D
lordmortlock
31-10-2016, 03:39
By all accounts the 912 is a proper end game piece Peter. I'm guessing it's very different to the shindo?
jandl100
31-10-2016, 08:50
Yep, it looks dead cool, but how does it sound?
Jake has filled me in re: the Shindo Sound, how does it compare to that?
Well, firstly, the EAR is at the top of its product range, whereas the two Shindos I've had are bottom of their's. If money were no problem, I'd certainly be sat here with a top of the range Shindo system in front of me, as I love everything that they do. Unfortunately, I could never find, or afford, the Shindo power amp I craved .. or the speakers .. or the turntable :(
Basically, the challenge you have set is to describe two different 'house' sounds in words :rolleyes: From everything I have heard, I think the way the two designers have 'voiced' their products is pretty consistent across their product lines, but they do have slightly different perspectives on what constitutes a 'correct' presentation. Of course, the 912 and the Monbrison are at about the same price point, and whether you chose one over the other would, as always, really be a matter of personal taste and system-matching, as they are both rather good.
You'd probably prefer the EAR, Jerry ... studio heritage gives it a slightly more analytical / forensic approach, together with a a more obvious engagement with the dynamics of the recording. The Shindos were a bit more subtle and holistic in their presentation, majoring on 'rightness' of tone/timbre, with a musical 'flow' that often just made me forget about the hifi. The 912 has a few more features, and has more flexibility for matching with other components (switchable SUTs, mono switch, isolating input/output transformers, XLRs, multiple outputs, etc), and maybe appeals more to the hifi enthusiast. Anyway, these last few weeks, I've been listening to more music than ever, so the 912/861 combo is clearly doing things right for me. I am also finding it is very catholic, in that it doesn't have me favouring certain genres and recordings ... sounds great whatever it is fed :D Yes ... finally ... end of the road :thumbsup:
jandl100
31-10-2016, 11:43
Thanks for that, Peter.
I get the picture.
You'd probably prefer the EAR, Jerry
From both your and Jake's description of the Shindo, and my prior ownership and enjoyment of an EAR 802 pre-amp, I am sure you are right.
I believe is has the same circuitry as the EAR 868PL I had Jerry. Should sound very similar.
I didn't keep the EAR 868PL as it wasn't ultimately to my tastes. Good preamp, though. Sure some would love it.
I believe is has the same circuitry as the EAR 868PL I had Jerry.
Nope, not quite ... see post 277.
No SUTs in the 912's phono stage then? I just went to the website and it says very little.
EDIT - nope - it has SUTs as I thought. Cross post with below.
Anyway, enjoy. Looks awesome.
No SUTs in the 912's phono stage then? I just went to the website and it says very little.
Yes, Justin, the 912 has the MC4 SUTs built in (the 868 has the MC3s). The 912 has a different (all valve) phonostage to the 868's hybrid circuit. I owned an 868 for several years, so have experience of both. As I say at the bottom of post 277, the internet myth that the 868 is just a less-featured and repackaged 912 is not quite accurate. The line stage is the same, but the 868 has the hybrid (FET/valve) phonostage of the 88PB, whereas the 912 is a specially designed all-valve job. The EAR line-up can get rather confusing, not helped by a general lack of technical details on their website.
Parkie37
31-10-2016, 22:51
Well, firstly, the EAR is at the top of its product range, whereas the two Shindos I've had are bottom of their's. If money were no problem, I'd certainly be sat here with a top of the range Shindo system in front of me, as I love everything that they do. Unfortunately, I could never find, or afford, the Shindo power amp I craved .. or the speakers .. or the turntable :(
Basically, the challenge you have set is to describe two different 'house' sounds in words :rolleyes: From everything I have heard, I think the way the two designers have 'voiced' their products is pretty consistent across their product lines, but they do have slightly different perspectives on what constitutes a 'correct' presentation. Of course, the 912 and the Monbrison are at about the same price point, and whether you chose one over the other would, as always, really be a matter of personal taste and system-matching, as they are both rather good.
You'd probably prefer the EAR, Jerry ... studio heritage gives it a slightly more analytical / forensic approach, together with a a more obvious engagement with the dynamics of the recording. The Shindos were a bit more subtle and holistic in their presentation, majoring on 'rightness' of tone/timbre, with a musical 'flow' that often just made me forget about the hifi. The 912 has a few more features, and has more flexibility for matching with other components (switchable SUTs, mono switch, isolating input/output transformers, XLRs, multiple outputs, etc), and maybe appeals more to the hifi enthusiast. Anyway, these last few weeks, I've been listening to more music than ever, so the 912/861 combo is clearly doing things right for me. I am also finding it is very catholic, in that it doesn't have me favouring certain genres and recordings ... sounds great whatever it is fed :D Yes ... finally ... end of the road :thumbsup:
Wow, Peter that is great! End of the road....that is exactly what I am feeling at the moment with my new (old) setup. The flexibility and features of the 912 is quite impressive. I can imagine that that would really allow users to fine tune their setup to get the most out of it. Also, you mentioned the purchase as being cash neutral; that is exactly what I did in order to buy my setup. I had nothing remaining but speakers, turntable and DAC/Transport. I had even sold each and every interconnect to pay for it! But....in the end, you have ended up with something that "sounds great whatever it is fed". That sure sounds like and end game goal to me :cool:
Be interesting to do a poll on members who feel they are at the end of their quest system wise.
walpurgis
31-10-2016, 23:42
Well I've not felt the need to change anything in the system for a few years. I know Hi-Fi and have heard much very expensive and acclaimed Hi-Fi, but I'm very happy with what I hear from my system. I very much doubt anybody else has the same setup or can guess the standard it achieves (apart from a mate who has a rather similar system....and who should be a member here, but won't bloody join).
jandl100
01-11-2016, 06:39
Be interesting to do a poll on members who feel they are at the end of their quest system wise.
Aye - it's something you read quite a lot on the hifi forums .... and then, often enough, the next bit of kit arrives. ;)
For those of a boxswapper mentality, I think it is often part of the euphoria of the honeymoon period with a new piece of gear that works well. .... Wow, can it get better than this?! -- of course it can! :lol:
I seem to recall a thread called "I think I am finished". :whistle: That was started some while back, and there have been about a zillion changes to that individual's system since then. :)
Some folks like to settle down with a system while others like to change it around a bit to experience different presentations. Nothing wrong with either approach, imo.
And sometimes even a rabid boxswapper reaches the end of the road for a certain component. My MBL speakers are that. I just can't imagine that happening for my whole system, though.
Well, I've had both my CD player and speakers for over 5 years now, so there's hope! :D
I think the main system is pretty much finished now. I really can't afford the only real upgrade that I crave ... an Io Ltd ... and, although reel-to-reel keeps calling my name, the lack of software puts me off. I suppose a possibility might be a decent streamer/dac thingy, but I'm in way too deep with CDs and LPs to bother.
A lot of people seem to end up satisfying their box-swapping urges by playing around with a second system ... myself included. But, given my rapidly diminishing and finite time on this planet, I'm beginning to wonder what is the point of listening to an inferior system, when there is a better one in the other room?
Maybe time to get another hobby? I noticed quite a few of the original Wammers took up photography once they'd reached the end of the road with their hifi (or the end of their budget :lol:) ... same potential for equipment swapping and hoarding, I guess? I suppose it could be a healthier hobby, as at least it gets you out and about? OTOH, maybe nowadays it mostly consists of staring at a computer screen, playing with photoshop? :rolleyes:
jandl100
01-11-2016, 08:13
The major upgrade to my music system over the last 6 years or so has been my conversion to internet music streaming.
I used to listen to music a lot, I thought. I now listen to 3x more, and much more broadly based.
It's like having CD or LP shelves a couple of miles long.
I now only listen to physical media on the rare occasion that the music/recording I want is not available streamed.
As far as I am concerned, internet streaming is a keeper. :)
And I don't feel any desire at all to buy an Io Ltd. :lol:
ovlov854
01-11-2016, 09:20
Be interesting to do a poll on members who feel they are at the end of their quest system wise.
Always something else to lust after......especially a pair of "golden age" Sonus Faber
Oh yes and the dedicated listening room with grandchildren protection!!
But absolutely no more cash on the bloody LP12:doh:
A lot of people seem to end up satisfying their box-swapping urges by playing around with a second system ... myself included. But, given my rapidly diminishing and finite time on this planet, I'm beginning to wonder what is the point of listening to an inferior system, when there is a better one in the other room?
Oh well .... been sorting out the second system :D The only requirement of the living room system is that it mustn't scare the natives. No valves, no fragile stuff, no difficult to find on/off switches, clear controls, no exposed stylus ... otherwise it doesn't get used.
So, this is the current stuff, which has proven to be very satisfactory for all concerned.
Naim Nait 5si
Sony 6750 + Audio Note IQ1
Marantz PM-4
Tannoy Revolution XT-6
Phone pics ... sorry about the low quality.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203328_zpsrghlo40z.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203328_zpsrghlo40z.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203356_zpsgmlkys3t.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203356_zpsgmlkys3t.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203505_zpsxfz58fxo.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203505_zpsxfz58fxo.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203905_zpsj9cp8s56.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203905_zpsj9cp8s56.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203927_zpsw286gojy.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203927_zpsw286gojy.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203956_zpszzqggqnn.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203956_zpszzqggqnn.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_204021_zpsbgzlpa8y.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_204021_zpsbgzlpa8y.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_204042_zps0j4czjjt.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_204042_zps0j4czjjt.jpg.html)
Nutting wrong with the pics Peter, all good!
Thought the cart was a Grado, but perhaps AudioNote has "tinkered" with it?
Very nice setup, the Marantz looks like a beaut!
Yes, it's a 're-built' Goldring ... I picked this one up 'lightly used' a while ago, and have been very impressed. Used to have a Goldring 1042, but this is better, I think.
The Marantz is lovely. For the money, the only thing I can fault is the rubbish 1970s connectors. If I keep it, I may try to fit some modern connectors.
Oops! Of course i meant Goldring, not Grado! :sofa:
I also get complaints that its to difficult to select music etc. Perhaps i should promote a TV-room stereo for "her indoors" pleasure... It's a really good idea!
British high fidelity
26-12-2016, 04:42
Good thought happy wife, happy life 😉
Sent from my LG-H961N using Tapatalk
Parkie37
27-12-2016, 01:09
Phone pics ... sorry about the low quality.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203328_zpsrghlo40z.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203328_zpsrghlo40z.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203356_zpsgmlkys3t.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203356_zpsgmlkys3t.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203505_zpsxfz58fxo.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203505_zpsxfz58fxo.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203905_zpsj9cp8s56.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203905_zpsj9cp8s56.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203927_zpsw286gojy.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203927_zpsw286gojy.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203956_zpszzqggqnn.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_203956_zpszzqggqnn.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_204021_zpsbgzlpa8y.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_204021_zpsbgzlpa8y.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_204042_zps0j4czjjt.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/20161220_204042_zps0j4czjjt.jpg.html)
That looks like a fun second system Peter. I have been tempted myself to get a second system, but I have ended up giving my younger daughter those pieces. That way, when I visit her at university, there is still some lovely music : )
I have probably mentioned it before, but she has the Rega Brio 3 integrated, an old Sansui T-60 tuner, a Rega RP-1 with Performance Pack and a pair of Epos M12 speakers on sand filled Skylan stands. The speaker cable and interconnects were hand made, good but modestly priced pieces by my favourite dealer. It is a pretty good setup for someone who is 20 years old and in university. And....I get to play with some used stuff and not feel guilty (or get grief from my wife!) about buying a second system : )
Of course, it would be fun to put an old rosewood cabineted Luxman system (just like the one that I had when I was 20) in the basement of our new house........
I sure love that old Marantz!
Pete The Cat
27-12-2016, 09:47
I don't know what the name of the font lettering is that Marantz used on their fascias back then but it's uniquely elegant. I used to gaze longingly at their ads in hi-fi mags in the late 70s.
Pete
I don't know what the name of the font lettering is that Marantz used on their fascias back then but it's uniquely elegant. I used to gaze longingly at their ads in hi-fi mags in the late 70s.
Pete
Thought it just me that did that.... :)
Its of the Metropolis family fonts, of which there are about a 1000 or so.
This'll work.
http://www.studiodilena.com/en/marantz-font.html
Idlewithnodrive
30-12-2016, 10:06
Nice second system Peter. All quality "iconic" components.I bet that sounds really sweet.
Been after a decent PM-4 myself for quite a long while, having heard one a few times and liking them whatever they are driving.
rigger67
30-12-2016, 12:43
I don't know what the name of the font lettering is that Marantz used on their fascias back then but it's uniquely elegant. I used to gaze longingly at their ads in hi-fi mags in the late 70s.
Pete
Apparently, the logo was a hand-drawn derivative of the rather art deco font, Metropolis, which looks a bit like Broadway to me :
http://fontsinuse.com/typefaces/23744/metropolis
Nice second system Peter. All quality "iconic" components.I bet that sounds really sweet.
Been after a decent PM-4 myself for quite a long while, having heard one a few times and liking them whatever they are driving.
Yes, Mike, I've been liking it very much. Never really been a fan of Marantz amps in general, and I was expecting this one to be a bit gutless in the 'Class A' mode, but it has excellent drive, and is really performing at quite a high standard. Similar specs to a modern Sugden A21, but I think better! Certainly, it runs cooler, and the phonostage is better.
That looks like a fun second system Peter. I have been tempted myself to get a second system .....
Of course, it would be fun to put an old rosewood cabineted Luxman system (just like the one that I had when I was 20) in the basement of our new house........
Go for it, Don ... it is great fun! While our aging buddies are now (finally) able to buy the motorbikes they craved as teenagers, we'll be out buying up that high-end 70s/80s Japanese hifi we drooled over back then :lol:
The new little Tannoys are running in nicely, and I've been pleasantly surprised. I picked them up half-price in a 'Black Friday' sale deal, and they seem nicely balanced and a good deal more lively than I'd expect from a 6 inch driver in a small box. There seems to be quite a bit of sensible design and technology at work here. The specs and an interesting cross-section diagram are in the brochure, which can be downloaded from the website ...
http://www.tannoy.com/lifestyle/products/HiFi/Revolution-XT/Revolution-XT-6/
walpurgis
07-01-2017, 23:30
I should think they sound rather nice Peter. They are bound to image well.
I'm wondering if the drivers are a development of the ICT dual coaxial/dual concentric unit originally marketed by Goodmans and later taken on by Tannoy. They are certainly different to the dual magnet tulip waveguide types.
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/loudspeakers/66-knowledge/154-historically-speaking-the-final-part.html
Interesting, Geoff! These Tannoy drivers do look very similar to the ICTs, with (apparently) Tannoy claiming improvements in the tweeter 'dome' shape (a torus) and waveguide profiling.
I've never been too impressed with speaker manufacturers who take mass-produced, cheap 'off the shelf' OEM drivers, stick them in a (computer simulated) little ported box (total cost, tens of pounds) and sell them for hundreds or thousands of pounds. However, I must say that these seem to be a much more thought-through, with some considerable investment in the speaker unit manufacturing if nothing else. Certainly, there doesn't seem to be any sign of cost-cutting ... an example being the magnets, which are pretty substantial for a small speaker.
Here are all three of Adam's excellent speaker-history articles ...
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/loudspeakers/66-knowledge/153-historically-speaking.html
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/loudspeakers/66-knowledge/152-historically-speaking-part-ii.html
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/loudspeakers/66-knowledge/154-historically-speaking-the-final-part.html
Here are all three of Adam's excellent speaker-history articles ...
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/loudspeakers/66-knowledge/153-historically-speaking.html
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/loudspeakers/66-knowledge/152-historically-speaking-part-ii.html
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/loudspeakers/66-knowledge/154-historically-speaking-the-final-part.html
Really interesting, thank you for sharing this Peter :)
Thank Geoff!
.... and Adam, of course :D
pgarrish
09-01-2017, 21:53
They were an interesting read. Cheers.
The Tesla sparking speaker he links to must rank as one of the most epic speakers ever built - not sure it's a good idea for a bake-off though... not with 800 amps in play!
lescrooge
09-01-2017, 21:54
All very nice and fine - but what are the mortgage payments on that lot.
For starters, I probably (don't) have the oldest pair or even the most wickedly enticing pair of interconnects in the World.
What I have is a pair of two way, end to end, nickel plated solid metal phono plugs I made in 1969 - koz that is how you do things (then and now).
Back then we called them leads.
Had I known there was a giant market of uninformed mugs( I mean Hifi addicks) out there, I could have retired as the Interconnect king, but I didn't and I didn't.
We showed up @ the 1999 London HiFi show NOVOTEL W6 with a Denon 5000 DVD deck, an SME turntable & arm, an Ortophon ace pickup and an Audio Note stereo amp.
We added in on our own, a JVC Discman, some bellwire speaker interconnects, my 1969 'interconnects' and a pair of my Cornucopias with screechy LOwther EX4 drivers.
My electronic wizard took his handmade and personally designed circuit 50 watt monoblock solid state amps (2), his handmade and personally designed hybrid pre-amp - with hitherto unreproduced circuitry, all constructed from RS Supplies, off-the-shelf electronic bits, along with handmade pots, and we proceeded to get up a lot of peoples noses.
Only those what understood sound stuck around.
We ended up on the Saturday nite with a Quad2 monoblock on one channel and one of Henry's solid states on the other, playing vinyl - like there was no other way to do it, all thru his hybrid preamp.
We then decided to dump the Audio note in favour of the Roger's Cadet stereo power amp and none of the assembled throng ( and there was not even standing room) noticed a missed beat.
(The Audio note and the Cadet were both rated at 8W RMS PC)
The only diff being the £3k in the AN price. The AN being £3050 and the Cadet £50 (which I still have to this day)
Keeping the blaggers, B$$ers and general scoundrels of the HIFi world in fine fettle AWA a job) is highly admirable.
So good on yer.
One question
Where do you find a woman as tolerant as yours?
Mine wants to burn the lot - but then she is culturally deprived - or depraved.
I put it down to inbreeding or her upbringing - or perhaps both.
Great post that Louis. And you are right: When did it stop being 'leads' and start being 'interconnects'?
Ali Tait
10-01-2017, 07:35
When it was realised you could charge more. :-)
Great post that Louis. And you are right: When did it stop being 'leads' and start being 'interconnects'?
A "lead" is what you use to walk the dog with whereas an interconnect connects bits of kit, which become, errr, interconnected:lol:
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