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It all started to get serious when I got the chance to buy a new pair of these at a 'once in a lifetime' discount. I couldn't resist ...
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi006_zpsc68ff3a1.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi006_zpsc68ff3a1.jpg.html)
Tannoy Canterbury SE
This triggered a few changes, culminating in this lot.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi005_zps9af90153.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi005_zps9af90153.jpg.html)
EAR 534 power amplifier, Shindo Aurieges L preamp, Leben RS30-EQ phono stage, Rega Isis Valve cdp.
This is the current favourite TT.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi002_zps8c01daea.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi002_zps8c01daea.jpg.html)
Garrard 401, Audio Note 1 arm, Koetsu Black Goldline
Linked together with a nice A23 SUT
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi004_zpsa03f9de6.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi004_zpsa03f9de6.jpg.html)
Also got one of these, which is quite nice.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi008_zps1ec45c61.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi008_zps1ec45c61.jpg.html)
Thorens TD125, Tecnoarm, Ortofon Black.
Too many turntables! The SME10/IV is waiting for its longtime partnering Transfiguration Spirit to come back from Dom's.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi010_zpsa3312d8a.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PetratHiFi010_zpsa3312d8a.jpg.html)
Very pleased, now.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/RAF%20Cosford/raccoon_applause_zps914df3b6.gif (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/RAF%20Cosford/raccoon_applause_zps914df3b6.gif.html)
When I pick my mouth up of the floor i'll comment:lol: very nice:stalks::stalks:
RochaCullen
29-04-2013, 16:18
That really is a stunning Thorens TD125. Very nice.
Audio Al
29-04-2013, 16:19
:stalks::eek::stalks::eek::stalks:
My GOB is also smacked
Very nice :)
B'Jesus that is some serious kit there Sir:stalks:
That Koetsu looks like a DL103:scratch:, anyway who cares lovely looking kit:clapclapclap:
Thanks for the kind comments.
That Koetsu looks like a DL103:scratch:, anyway who cares lovely looking kit
Nope it's a Koetsu. Yes it does look rather similar but is a different shape, sort of less 'dumpy'. Actually the SUT is specifically designed for the DL103, but for some unknown reason (considering the spec differences) it works brilliantly with the Black, too.
Wonderful system you have there! And you do not see Shindos every day at the forums.. :)
Thing Fish
29-04-2013, 19:21
That EAR 534 looks lovely...:)
:stalks: Fantastic system! I love the Garrard. Do you have any thoughts on the A23 SUT? I've just acquired one myself (from a very scrupulous person) and I'm rather pleased with it. :eyebrows:
My gob is also smacked, and my thunder has been struck. Question: looking at this gear I suspect that digital is a four letter word?
Simply beautiful!
Nice, tidy, and a collecton of Hifi worthy of a high end store!
Wouldn't mind a listen in the future!:cool:
Regards Mike
Yummy!
You win the internet today. That valve ISIS...:cool:
Congrats, Peter - what a wonderful system! :respect:
It's just the sort of thing we like to see on AoS, as your equipment choices demonstrate some proper lateral thinking (i.e you haven't simply bought 'flavours of the month' or obvious choices from mainstream manufacturers), and have achieved synergy and created your own musical nirvana.
Interesting that the A23 (103) works with the Koetsu. I'll have to remember that in future! How would you describe the sound of the Leben phono stage, which I presume is MM only? I've always admired the products from Leben. Which valves does it use?
The Cants/EAR combo should be a 'juicy' one, too... :eyebrows:
I'd love to pop down for a listen sometime! Enjoy :cool:
Marco.
steviej233
30-04-2013, 07:55
WOW. :stalks:
Do you have any thoughts on the A23 SUT? I've just acquired one myself (from a very scrupulous person) and I'm rather pleased with it.
The Auditorium23 SUT I have is the original one designed for the Denon 103, a cartridge I was keen to try. Obviously, it worked well with that, giving a very nice presentation, rather different to my usual Transfiguration Spirit, which is more 'hi-fi' / modern in its approach. That got me thinking and I started looking to get an EMT15 as my next upgrade, as everyone says it works brilliantly with the SUT and is a, sort of, turbo-charged version of the 103, majoring on coherence and musicality, if that makes any sense. However, they are not easy to find (used), and while searching I came across the Koetsu at a good price. Having just heard one at this year's Scalford show and been mightily impressed, I decided to go for it. I was a bit worried whether the SUT would work OK with such a different cartridge, but luck would have it, it seems like an excellent fit. I only have about 50 hours on the cartridge so far, but I am loving it already. The modern Koetsu Black seems to have better treble and bass than the old ones, and I am not missing anything in those areas that I can detect, although it is the glorious midrange that is the major attraction. It works much, much better with the new Audio Note 1 arm than the SME IV. That new arm is very good, and to be honest, if I had to choose between the SME IV and the AN, I'd certainly keep the AN.
Regarding the A23, this is my first stand alone SUT, but compared to the EAR868 phono / preamp I owned for many years, which uses TdP's MC3 transformers, I think it is slightly more 'lively' and 'palpable', being less 'matter of fact'. I prefer the A23, but others who value objective neutrality might prefer the EAR.
The A23 is actually rather mysterious, there being no published spec, but I have been told from a very reputable source that he measured a gain of 13x, but I am not sure if there is any additional resistive loading also being applied. Anyway, I am waiting for my Spirit to come back from being re-tipped, so am hoping that will also work OK with the A23, fingers crossed. By the way, Auditorium also do a similarly priced higher gain version for use with Ortofon SPUs, and also a couple of mega-buck Hommage versions.
The Black Adder
30-04-2013, 08:21
.
Thanks
How would you describe the sound of the Leben phono stage, which I presume is MM only? I've always admired the products from Leben. Which valves does it use?.
The A23/Leben/Shindo replaced a longtime resident EAR868PL, which is a very nice one-box preamp. By the way, I had found the 868 to be vastly improved on the previous EAR preamps I had, having previously lived with both 834P and the 864, which is the 834L and 834P in a flash box.
The Leben phono uses a single pair of General Electric 12AT7 (ECC81) with a valve regulated supply. The website gives further details about the design approach and there are Stereophile and Positive Feedback reviews online. It is a single input MM stage, but the low gain quoted on the website is wrong, it being a more normal 37dB. It is very quiet and nicely dynamic. I bought it to match a Leben 300XS I briefly owned, and it was clearly the superior component. The dealer I got the phonostage from says his customers stop upgrading once they have one ... he can now count me in that group.
(Edit - but be wary of very high output impedance, as measured in Stereophile review - probably needs 100k input impedance on preamp)
Question: looking at this gear I suspect that digital is a four letter word?
Nope! It's just more difficult to photograph the cdp, as I'm too lazy to lift it out ... it's a bit of a lump. It sits down there because, for some reason, it sounds better on the low shelf than the top shelf.
For 9 years I had a Naim CDX2, which got played every day and all day. Never found anything I preferred in my price range, until my current one. By the way, I reckon the CDX2 is a real used bargain at the moment (all the Naimees are going 'streaming' and selling up). Anyway, I thought the 'straight' Isis was OK, a very capable CD player, but not really a significant improvement on the Naim when I auditioned it when it first came out. Some time later, I got the chance to hear the 'valve' version ... what an improvement! I reckon it's not actually the valves that make the big difference, it's the different DAC used and the variable filter options that are not on the standard version. For me, Filter option 3 gives a very lifelike presentation, and makes CDs a joy to listen to. As a 'last ever' cd player, I also like the lifetime warranty and spare laser mechs that Rega keep should they be needed in the future.
By the way, before anyone assumes I'm particularly wealthy, most everything I have was bought secondhand or ex-demo / extremely generous trade-ins from excellent dealers. Basically, about four years ago I decided that my hard-earned savings were not getting any significant interest and (hopefully) not going to be needed until retirement, so I put the money into stuff that would give me pleasure now, and also not lose anything if I was forced to sell up later. Fortunately, my wife agreed!
naimplayer
30-04-2013, 10:23
Eclectic.
I am impressed. I trust it sounds as good as it looks.
How did you get it in the house?
With difficulty! Each speaker weighs 10.5 stone ... but fortunately they were delivered by a very strong man with a trick-trolley. They are in the converted garage room at the moment, and I'm waiting for my brother's annual visit so we can shift them and try them in the big living room.
Peter, could you give us any more thoughts on the SME IV vs AN-I arm?:)
Idlewithnodrive
30-04-2013, 11:31
Well Peter, just in case anybody hasn't already told you, that is a mighty fine set up you have there. I particularly like the TT's, real classics and very capable decks.
How do you find the TD125 stacks up against the 401 ?
I bought the SME IV about 10 years ago, when I got the SME10 TT. It has standard internal wiring, and I use it with a Nordost Heimdall i/c (I found the supplied VdH one really masks detail, for some reason). In a nutshell ... beautifully made, so easy to set up, adaptable ... sound majors on clarity and precision.
The Audio Note was bought this year, ex-dem from Deco Audio, and is the lowest specced version with copper wire thoughout. I believe it uses some sort of 'captured' unipivot bearings. Beautifully made, not quite so easy to set up as the SME, but what is? .. sound majors on detail, coherence and fluidity.
Both seem to have good extension at the frequency extremes, but I reckon, blindfolded, many would prefer the sound of the AN over the SME. They are not that dissimilar, but the SME errs towards the strengths often associated with CDs, whereas the AN errs towards a slightly more 'organic' sound. However, the differences are slight, and I guess will vary with cartridge.
However, and it is a big HOWEVER, considering the difference in new price is £1200, there really isn't any contest.
How do you find the TD125 stacks up against the 401 ?
Once I get my Spirit cartridge back, I intend to to some comparative testing between all three TTs over the summer. I probably will end up selling one at some point, but not sure which at the moment!
This is my second TD125, having stupidly sold one a few years back. I also had a Garrard 301 in a Bastin plinth for quite a few years, which eventually went to a friend. I guess most people are familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the Garrards, but probably less so with the Thorens. Personally, I love the TD125, finding it nicely detailed, 'unhurried', relaxed ... well, maybe 'natural' is the word. It benefits from a decent cork mat or ringmat, but I think for the money it is hard to beat. On the other hand, the Garrard is more exciting but maybe a bit less detailed. Put it this way ... if I want to relax, its the Thorens ... if I want to boogie, its the Garrard ... if I want to know what's on the record, its the SME.
Great looking setup.. sure it sounds wickedly good too :)
RobbieGong
30-04-2013, 19:55
Nice system and well done choosing the best mm cart out there :D
That's a great looking system you've got there Peter!
I was particularly interested in reading your comments and thoughts on the Audionote arm - I am thinking about a possible arm upgrade myself and the Audionote certainly drew my attention. Just a silly question: does it use the old style Rega threaded base?
Thanks!
Yes, it is old Rega 24mm screw jobby.
Thanks!
Yes, it is old Rega 24mm screw jobby.
Cheers! Happy listening!:cool:
Hi Peter, those were great gears!
Can I ask what is the box second from top, just below your EAR amplifier?
Lovely set up Peter. I have a soft spot for Canterbury speakers, just not the room for them! That Garrard looks particularly nice. Great choice of arm/cart to go with it. I'll bet the Tannoys sound great with that EAR driving them?
Can I ask what is the box second from top, just below your EAR amplifier?
It is a Japanese preamp, the Aurieges L from Shindo Laboratories. Apparently, Ken Shindo is a wine enthusiast, and names all his amps after fine French wines. Although it is his lowest model, to my ears it is, by far, the star of the show in my system. I am totally in love with it, and can only imagine how good the four 'better' models in the Shindo preamp line-up must sound. Shindo is rare in Europe as there are no dealers here, but is popular in USA. I was lucky and got this one privately from an enthusiast in Israel.
I have a soft spot for Canterbury speakers, just not the room for them! I'll bet the Tannoys sound great with that EAR driving them?
Hi Paul!
I first fell in love with Tannoys when my Dad took me to the Harrogate show in the seventies, and, to be honest, at every show since I always seem to end up staying in the Tannoy room more than most. So, when I got the chance to buy a new pair at trade price, it took me about no time to talk myself into the purchase. Wonderfully, my wife encouraged me too!
What the photos don't show is that the Canterburys are actually in a modest sized room at the moment ... a converted garage ... they were plonked down there temporarily when I got them in order to run them in for a few weeks. Then the plan was to move them into the main living which is 40x15 feet, but more than a year later I haven't got round to it yet, partly because the living room shares a wall with the neighbours, whereas the garage room is isolated and means I can rock-out late at night. But mainly because they sound really good in the garage room ... probably because it is a well damped, irregular shaped, concrete floored space. I used to see photos of Japanese and Hong Kong systems with Canterburys in tiny rooms, listening near-field, and think that it couldn't possibly work ... but it really does! What I need to make, though, are some plinths /risers to get the tweeters up to ear level. Mind you, they are already a bit visually overpowering, so not sure raising them another 18 inches wouldn't make them loom over the listening chair a bit too much.
The EAR534 replaced a pair of the 509 mono blocks, which I owned for years, using them to drive a pair of longtime-cherished NEAT MFS standmounters. I have used quite a bit of EAR kit over the years and really rate their power amps. For some reason, the 509s were not such a great match with the Canterburys, but the 534 works nicely. Mind you, the 509s were about 30 years old, so maybe not at their best.
It is a Japanese preamp, the Aurieges L from Shindo Laboratories. Apparently, Ken Shindo is a wine enthusiast, and names all his amps after fine French wines. Although it is his lowest model, to my ears it is, by far, the star of the show in my system. I am totally in love with it, and can only imagine how good the four 'better' models in the Shindo preamp line-up must sound. Shindo is rare in Europe as there are no dealers here, but is popular in USA. I was lucky and got this one privately from an enthusiast in Israel.
Thanks Peter. You have got a gem in your hand indeed. You should bring it to the AOS show if possible and it would be a treat for all of us!
Like most Japanese amps, they are hard to find in Europe mainly because of import taxes making them unattractive. It is a shame really as they bring a different proposition to the world of audiophile.
The only time I've heard a Shindo was in Hong Kong.
A few changes since last year. The previous turntables have gone and been consolidated into (what I think is) a good upgrade ... a Platine Verdier.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier001_zps7ae50660.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier001_zps7ae50660.jpg.html)
The tonearm situation has also changed, with both an Audio Note Arm 3 and a SME M2-12R in residence. The former is fitted with an Io1, and the SME is either a SPU Spirit or my Koetsu Black Goldline. The SUT is currently an Audio-Note AN-S2L.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg.html)
The other major change was getting my hands on a Shindo Monbrison, which has replaced the Shindo Aurieges line preamp and the Leben RS-30EQ phonostage.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier009_zpsb8325d53.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier009_zpsb8325d53.jpg.html)
A few changes since last year. The previous turntables have gone and been consolidated into (what I think is) a good upgrade ... a Verdier Platine.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier001_zps7ae50660.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier001_zps7ae50660.jpg.html)
The tonearm situation has also changed, with both an Audio Note Arm 3 and a SME M2-12R in residence. The former is fitted with an Io1, and the SME is either a SPU Spirit or my Koetsu Black Goldline. The SUT is currently an Audio-Note AN-S2L.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg.html)
Wonderful stuff, Peter! :drool:
The PV is one of my favourite turntables - it's a wonderfully musical sounding device. One could call it a 'proper belt-drive T/T'... ;)
Enjoy!
Marco.
The Black Adder
22-06-2014, 20:15
Aye.. bloody luvlie! - You have taste my friend! :)
Floyddroid
22-06-2014, 20:50
Gorgeous stuff.
A few changes since last year. The previous turntables have gone and been consolidated into (what I think is) a good upgrade ... a Platine Verdier.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier001_zps7ae50660.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier001_zps7ae50660.jpg.html)
The tonearm situation has also changed, with both an Audio Note Arm 3 and a SME M2-12R in residence. The former is fitted with an Io1, and the SME is either a SPU Spirit or my Koetsu Black Goldline. The SUT is currently an Audio-Note AN-S2L.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg.html)
The other major change was getting my hands on a Shindo Monbrison, which has replaced the Shindo Aurieges line preamp and the Leben RS-30EQ phonostage.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier009_zpsb8325d53.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier009_zpsb8325d53.jpg.html)
Just love that SME M2-12R arm. :)
With SPU Spirit fitted ...
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/SPU010_zpscc2cc42c.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/SPU010_zpscc2cc42c.jpg.html)
montesquieu
03-01-2015, 23:05
Peter very kindly came down today with some of his kit in the car for a bit of a listen at Chateau Montesquieu.
We had a bit of a blast of my system as-is before we put in his two Shindo preamps. The Music First MkII TVC is a cracking bit of kit but it's not quite as happy with the Radford STA100 as it was with previous power amps so I was really keen to hear what a quality tube preamp would do to the system.
We started with the Auriges, which in my setup was utterly transformative. (It's now here on loan :) ). I had anticipated that a good valve pre would have a big impact and so it proved .. but the Shindo way of doing things does seem to fit my setup really well. In the Aurorasound Vida and the Radford STA100 I have robust, detail-oriented (but still very musical) kit. The Shindo just adds a bit of fairy dust in between. (Sorry to get technical here).
We tried the Monbrison as well - which was definitely more on the refined side - but for me, in this setup the Auriges was actually preferable. Hard to say in hifi terms what it did but suddenly there was just more musical feel.
I had a bit of frustration with some cartridge hum which of course I fixed within minutes of Peter's departure (isnt that always the way?) but in general all three Miyajima cartridges (Shilabe, Zero mono and Premium 78) acquitted themselves pretty well, considering I had to stop using the SUT till I'd figured out what was up - generally speaking the MM input (+SUT) on the VIDA is a shade better than going straight into the MC input.
I was very nervous about Peter's feedback given he owns current model Canterburys, a holy grail speaker of mine if out of reach at their price bracket - I'm pretty proud of my 'reborn vintage' Canterburys but there's been over 30 years of Tannoy development between HPDs and current Canterburys and the best part of 50 years since the corner design was first put out there. Anyway he was gracious enough to suggest the sound was pretty close, apart perhaps from tighter bass in the new ones - nice to hear even if he was being polite!
Finally we gave his EAR 534 a blast ... I was also nervous of this as I'm a fan and previous owner of quite a bit of EAR gear ... interestingly there was little to choose between the EAR and the Radford STA100, both are just about perfect for this purpose. Interestingly the Music First was much happer with the EAR (which I guess backs up TdP's decision to make the integrated version of it just a passive pot with switches on the front of the standard power amp.) Must be something about its impedance characteristics that like the TCV in front.
Anyway a fun afternoon, long trip for Peter down from Northampton but I'm very glad he made it. :)
I know it is academic given the price point but have either of you heard the Tannoy Kingdom Royals with a decent valve amp?
I spent some time with some Thrax amps and an MSB DAC in a room at Silverstone at decent volume levels without interruption. Got lucky managing that but suffice to say they can be fantastic with the right kit. That seemed to be the right kit:)
Thanks to Tom for welcoming me to his lovely home. His summary of the day captures what we did with the kit, but doesn't indicate the most memorable thing for me ... the music, which when informed by Tom's in-depth knowledge, meant I came away with a much greater understanding of, and curiosity about, J S Bach and Schubert in particular. He should run music appreciation courses :)
The other lasting memory will be how impressed I was with Tom's vinyl front-end, which IMO would take some beating. This is the first time I've heard a properly-fettled TD124. We also listened to both stereo and mono Miyajima cartridges, which are very, very good ... and I reckon the Hashimoto SUTs waiting in the wings will only improve things further. Not much more to add, other than to agree that the Radford ST100, with KT90s, seems just about perfect for the Tannoys. Regarding our two generations of Tannoys, differences in rooms, and the fact that I listen to mine near-field, made speaker comparisons difficult, but the fact I immediately felt 'at home' with the Tom's new/old Canterburys' presentation probably indicates any differences are at the margins. Lovely cabinets, too. Finally, I understand Tom has another mystery pre-amp in preparation, so it'll be interesting to see how that compares once it appears.
Justin ... yes, I have heard the big Tannoys at Whittlebury, and was suitably impressed. Spent ages in that room. A big room makes all the difference, doesn't it? That, and the fact I had a nice pint of beer in my hands ....
Finally we gave his EAR 534 a blast ... I was also nervous of this as I'm a fan and previous owner of quite a bit of EAR gear ... interestingly there was little to choose between the EAR and the Radford STA100, both are just about perfect for this purpose. Interestingly the Music First was much happer with the EAR (which I guess backs up TdP's decision to make the integrated version of it just a passive pot with switches on the front of the standard power amp.) Must be something about its impedance characteristics that likes the TCV in front.
Well, this had to be investigated further!
Tom kindly sent his Music First Audio MK2 full-width pre across to me, and I duly gave it a good run in my system, replacing the regular Shindo.
First impressions were wholly positive when used with my Rega Isis Valve. How do you describe something that is, to all intents and purposes, transparent? I'd owned a MK1 some years ago, and found it rather 'lightweight' and lacking in bass on a range of the ss amplifiers I used at the time. Either the EAR is a better match or/and the larger transformers in this MFA have improved it, but clearly it is now very good indeed. It has all the audiophile boxes ticked ... detailed, huge sound stage, transparent and dynamic, extended frequency extremes, tonally well-balanced. Being transformer-based, it also isolates ground loops, resulting in a useful reduction in background hum in my high gain / high sensitivity set-up.
Changing the source to a stand-alone LCR phono-stage that I had on loan was less successful, though. Conclusion was that the ss phono-stage wasn't really driving the MFA in the same way that the valve output of the Isis was doing. In many ways the combo worked well (detail and soundstage), but lacked a bit of drive and suffered from a slightly 'thin' tone, maybe indicating a system mismatch, rather than inherent problems with the components?
Finally, moving back to the regular Shindo preamp added a 'weight' and a coherence that ultimately gave a less 'hi-fi' presentation than the MFA ... different, but not necessarily better. I'll be keeping the Shindo, as I love its way with music, and it has a super phonostage built in, but the MFA did get me thinking. Anyway, any doubts and dilemmas were taken out of my hands, as Tom wanted the MFA back so he could continue his own preamp deliberations ... blessed relief ...'Option Anxiety' has now subsided!
So, I would whole-heartedly suggest trying a Music First Audio pre with any of the EAR power amps or integrateds derived from the same design as the 534 (890, 834, 8L6, 899).
No pictures, but Tom's is same as this, but in black ... http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?80404-FS-Music-First-Audio-MkII-silver-edition-TVC-preamplifier
Highly recommended!
montesquieu
02-03-2015, 10:26
Well, this had to be investigated further!
Tom kindly sent his Music First Audio MK2 full-width pre across to me, and I duly gave it a good run in my system, replacing the regular Shindo.
First impressions were wholly positive when used with my Rega Isis Valve. How do you describe something that is, to all intents and purposes, transparent? I'd owned a MK1 some years ago, and found it rather 'lightweight' and lacking in bass on a range of the ss amplifiers I used at the time. Either the EAR is a better match or/and the larger transformers in this MFA have improved it, but clearly it is now very good indeed. It has all the audiophile boxes ticked ... detailed, huge sound stage, transparent and dynamic, extended frequency extremes, tonally well-balanced. Being transformer-based, it also isolates ground loops, resulting in a useful reduction in background hum in my high gain / high sensitivity set-up.
Changing the source to a stand-alone LCR phono-stage that I had on loan was less successful, though. Conclusion was that the ss phono-stage wasn't really driving the MFA in the same way that the valve output of the Isis was doing. In many ways the combo worked well (detail and soundstage), but lacked a bit of drive and suffered from a slightly 'thin' tone, maybe indicating a system mismatch, rather than inherent problems with the components?
Finally, moving back to the regular Shindo preamp added a 'weight' and a coherence that ultimately gave a less 'hi-fi' presentation than the MFA ... different, but not necessarily better. I'll be keeping the Shindo, as I love its way with music, and it has a super phonostage built in, but the MFA did get me thinking. Anyway, any doubts and dilemmas were taken out of my hands, as Tom wanted the MFA back so he could continue his own preamp deliberations ... blessed relief ...'Option Anxiety' has now subsided!
So, I would whole-heartedly suggest trying a Music First Audio pre with any of the EAR power amps or integrateds derived from the same design as the 534 (890, 834, 8L6, 899).
No pictures, but Tom's is same as this, but in black ... http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?80404-FS-Music-First-Audio-MkII-silver-edition-TVC-preamplifier
Highly recommended!
An interesting rider to this - I have similar reservations about the MF and my current phono stage (Aurorasound Vida) which was not an ideal match with the MF ... with my AN DAC the MF sounds wonderful. I suspect it's simply the Vida doesn't get along with passive preamps. Putting in Peter's Shindo Aurigies L in my system in the MF's place, it came back to life again.
The MF is a very special bit of kit, it's clear though that it (and for that matter the Vida) need some care in matching.
I am particularly enjoying my new SPU, which is the 95th Anniversary model. It has the traditional eliptical stylus and aluminium cantilever, but a much stiffer / complex frame results in more detail, but still retaining the SPU 'solid sound'. Works very nicely on the SME M2-12R too.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/004_zpscnxhl8vg.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/004_zpscnxhl8vg.jpg.html)
The SPU Spirit, on the other hand, delivers a more traditional 'SPU sound' ... really weighty and energetic.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/016_zpsjykv4gi9.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/016_zpsjykv4gi9.jpg.html)
Interesting, Peter. There is definitely a marked difference between the sound of all the SPUs, with the further up the range you go, the more detailed and ‘modern’ they sound, which depending on tastes and system balance, can be a good, or not so good thing.
“Weighty and energetic”, however, is a good way of describing the essence of the ‘SPU sound’, and those traits are exemplified particularly in the vintage models. For me, going from a brand new SPU Royal GM MKII, to an original 1959 SPU-G/T, was somewhat of a culture shock, as well as a valuable learning curve! ;)
Marco.
Interesting, Peter. There is definitely a marked difference between the sound of all the SPUs, with the further up the range you go, the more detailed and ‘modern’ they sound, which depending on tastes and system balance, can be a good, or not so good thing.
Marco.
Yes, Marco, but maybe the difference is that the A95 doesn't use that 'fussy' Shibata / Replicant profile stylus, getting its extra detail from its enhanced structural integrity rather than using a sharp chisel to gouge the grooves :D
While no cartridge is everything to everyone, the A95 certainly seems to tread a brilliant middle path. Mind you, at this price, it should be bloody good!
http://ortofon.com/hifi/products/cartridges/spu-series/spu-95th-anniversary
Yes, Marco, but maybe the difference is that the A95 doesn't use that 'fussy' Shibata / Replicant profile stylus, getting its extra detail from its enhanced structural integrity rather than using a sharp chisel to gouge the grooves :D
That’s an interesting, a possibly valid point. The most important thing is that you like the A95 for what it does, musically.
While no cartridge is everything to everyone, the A95 certainly seems to tread a brilliant middle path. Mind you, at this price, it should be bloody good!
http://ortofon.com/hifi/products/cartridges/spu-series/spu-95th-anniversary
Unfortunately, price is no guarantee these days for quality or satisfaction. As you know, I had the (then) top-of-the-range Royal, and as much as I enjoyed it, I’m enjoying the vintage SPU-G/T (with built-in JS SUTs) MUCH more! :)
Marco.
Actually, I've pretty much decided to focus my cartridge fetish on SPUs in the future, as I just love what they do. If I decide to sample a few more, I would certainly want to include vintage ones like your's, assuming I can find suitable samples. Actually, this all started when I read this thread and found myself drooling ... http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fdpjart6u5o0m772cfsdpe43m6&topic=543.15
One thing I am intrigued by, is the tiny on-board SUTs in your G/T. Any feeling that they limit the frequency extremes or dynamics? I've never really understood why most mc SUTs are so big, even though they only have to deal with tiny voltages ... wonder if it's just for show / perceived value?
Actually, I've pretty much decided to focus my cartridge fetish on SPUs in the future, as I just love what they do.
Me too, as they’re so ‘effortless' and musically addictive, thus allowing you to immerse yourself in the music and forget about hi-fi.
However, with having owned/used a Classic GM, Classic GM E, Silver Meister, Royal GM MKII, and now my vintage G/T, I feel that I’ve pretty much 'done the SPU thing', so my attention, cartridge-wise is now focussed on Deccas and EMTs, which once I have one of each, will finally complete my cartridge collection :)
One thing I am intrigued by, is the tiny on-board SUTs in your G/T. Any feeling that they limit the frequency extremes or dynamics?
No, not that I can audibly detect, although of course there are a few different variables in the equation, since I moved from using the Royal.
Going from a ‘fine-line’-type Replicant stylus to a conical one, is bound to result in some loss of high-frequency information, and I can hear a slight effect of that, but it’s nowhere near as pronounced as one might expect, and in any case, the bolder sound and infectious musicality of the vintage SPU more than make up for that, as does its superior (for some reason) tracking ability.
The ‘old nail’ coasts through material that the Royal would sometimes struggle with, although the latter is cleaner/more secure at the end of album sides. As ever, it’s simply a matter of choosing your compromises/trade-offs and seeing which you can live with the most.
I've never really understood why most mc SUTs are so big, even though they only have to deal with tiny voltages ... wonder if it's just for show / perceived value?
There are technical reasons why larger transformers, all else being equal, sound better than smaller ones, although you would need someone like lurcher here to explain it.
For me, as long as the SUTs in question are of good quality and correctly matched, electrically, for the job required, the advantages of having them located (and hard-wired) ‘at source’, thus removing any requirement of housing them in a separate box, with interconnect cables in circuit, significantly outweighs any advantages of them being much bigger.
That’s certainly my experience, anyway, YMMV.
Marco.
Just occurred to me that, although for the last year or so I have been concentrating on upgrading the vinyl set-up, the reality is that I listen to my CD player at least half the time.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/023_zpst6541rfc.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/023_zpst6541rfc.jpg.html)
It has three filter settings, and when set on filter 3, it does pretty much everything right to my ears. Certainly I haven't ever felt the need to go searching for something new since I got it a few years back.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/022_zps5kptyvi3.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/022_zps5kptyvi3.jpg.html)
Rega say they keep a spare laser mechanism for each one sold, so hopefully it'll be good for many years.
Mind you, they also say that the balanced XLR outputs are better than the normal RCA ones. They are wrong. Like many CD players IME though, it is a bit sensitive to both interconnects and mains cabling. Best I ever had with it was probably a well-shielded Atlas Navigator. Another Isis Valve user PMed me to say he was super-impressed with the Atlas Hyper Symmetrical, so clearly some synergy with that brand.
Nice Isis, Peter. Is it a valve one?
Interconnect wise, you should try an ‘AoS special’: essentially what Rega use, although the Klotz cable in question is MC-5000, not AC-110, and the plugs, MS Audio Starline, as opposed to Neutrik Pro-Fi, as it sounds superb, and that’s what an Isis-owning friend of mine uses.
No thoughts on my previous post, then? :)
Marco.
Nice Isis, Peter. Is it a valve one?
Interconnect wise, you should try an ‘AoS special’: essentially what Rega use, although the Klotz cable in question is MC-5000, not AC-110, and the plugs, MS Audio Starline, as opposed to Neutrik Pro-Fi, as it sounds superb, and that’s what an Isis-owning friend of mine uses.
Marco.
Yes, it's the valve one. I reckon it isn't the valves that make it so good ... probably more to do with the different DAC (to the regular Isis) and also the filter options.
Tried the Rega Klotz XLR and RCA cables with it, and wasn't impressed at all TBH. Most likely the better connectors on your version would help, though. Actually, I have some Klotz MC-5000 cable waiting to be made up into RCA interconnects, using the same plugs as Shindo use ...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JB8Y148?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00
Must get on with it!
No thoughts on my previous post, then? :)
Marco.
Yes. Very interesting. You are correct. About everything. :D
Lol - we aim to please!
Marco.
Tried the Rega Klotz XLR and RCA cables with it, and wasn't impressed at all TBH. Most likely the better connectors on your version would help, though
Yes they will, but also remember that the Klotz cable in the Regas is AC110, not MC5000, and so connectors aside, there is a marked difference in how both cables sound (their internal construction and electrical parameters are different).
Actually, I have some Klotz MC-5000 cable waiting to be made up into RCA interconnects, using the same plugs as Shindo use ...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JB8Y148?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00
Must get on with it!
I would if I were you… ;)
Marco.
Parkie37
08-04-2015, 22:16
Peter
I see that you used to have the same SUT that I am using, the AN-S2. I have the H and you used the L. It looks like you are using a Hashimoto SUT now? Do you feel that it's an improvement over the AN-S2? Did you try the AN-S4/L? I am told that Peter Q feels that it is quite special. The sweet spot in the lineup.
Thoughts?
Hi Don.
Ah, there's a bit of a story to that! I was on the journey from S2 to S4, enjoying the S2 while happily saving my pennies to give my Io the best possible, when ... the Hashimoto SUT came up at a very good price. So, I grabbed it for use with my SPUs, it being a proven lip-lock combination. And it was! Trouble was that my system has tons of gain, and the 40x setting was a bit on the high side, although the loading was fine. A bit of lateral thinking and I figured I could use the 20x setting, and if I loaded the secondaries with an extra 10K ohms in parallel, I'd get back to the right loading for the SPU (20 ohms). That worked really well .. happiness. The consequence of that was the higher setting 40x now sat at 5 ohm loading ... which turned out to be absolutely perfect for the Io. So, I got a 2-4-1 deal in effect! :D
So, to answer your question, I never pursued the S4 after that. For sure, both the S4 and the Hashimoto eat the S2 for breakfast ... totally different league TBH. As to directly comparing the two I can't say, as I've never heard them side by side. Certainly, when I have heard the S4 in the past, it has impressed enormously, and was where I was heading before the Japanese ambushed me. Now, I really like the flexibility that gain switches give, so I won't be changing what I have in the near future.
Parkie37
10-04-2015, 01:54
Hi Don.
Ah, there's a bit of a story to that! I was on the journey from S2 to S4, enjoying the S2 while happily saving my pennies to give my Io the best possible, when ... the Hashimoto SUT came up at a very good price. So, I grabbed it for use with my SPUs, it being a proven lip-lock combination. And it was! Trouble was that my system has tons of gain, and the 40x setting was a bit on the high side, although the loading was fine. A bit of lateral thinking and I figured I could use the 20x setting, and if I loaded the secondaries with an extra 10K ohms in parallel, I'd get back to the right loading for the SPU (20 ohms). That worked really well .. happiness. The consequence of that was the higher setting 40x now sat at 5 ohm loading ... which turned out to be absolutely perfect for the Io. So, I got a 2-4-1 deal in effect! :D
So, to answer your question, I never pursued the S4 after that. For sure, both the S4 and the Hashimoto eat the S2 for breakfast ... totally different league TBH. As to directly comparing the two I can't say, as I've never heard them side by side. Certainly, when I have heard the S4 in the past, it has impressed enormously, and was where I was heading before the Japanese ambushed me. Now, I really like the flexibility that gain switches give, so I won't be changing what I have in the near future.
That is a good story and it's funny how Hifi has you go down roads that you would never have thought of previously. I only have the one turntable and one cartridge, so I am still thinking AN-S4/L. Although, I have put my Meitner MA-1 DAC up for sale to see if it will sell at a good enough price to possibly take advantage of the AN-S8/L at my dealer's place. It is ten years old, but it was updated to be hard wired with Sogon cabling in it. I imagine that would not be cheap! If someone else buys it before me, then I will keep saving for a new AN-S4/L. I was quite pleased to hear you say that it had impressed you enormously.
I also just found out that I may have my new AN-E speakers in a couple of weeks time! I had better put together some money to pay them off :D
I see there is an article in this month's HiFi World about the Thorens TD125, a turntable I've always enjoyed immensely. The one pictured on the first page of this thread was the second one I'd owned and loved, but for some reason - probably 'guilt' at having too many turntables - I sold it on last year, together with a nice SME 3009 'non-improved' arm. I almost immediately regretted it, but fortunately Geoff (Oldius) let me have his stunning one at a decent price. Anyhow, I've finally got around to setting it up with my Audio Note arm and cartridge, and am thoroughly enjoying being 'back home'. As you can see from the pics below, it is housed in an ebony Russ Collinson creation, and I'll not be selling this one anytime soon! The AN arm and cartridge are quite dynamic, and complement the TD125 really nicely.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20012_zpszxavezrd.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20012_zpszxavezrd.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20016_zps9zauxalw.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20016_zps9zauxalw.jpg.html)
That Thorens/Audionote combo looks stunning Peter, well done Sir.:)
I love the combination of the old turntable and new tonearm:eek:
Parkie37
03-05-2015, 23:17
I see there is an article in this month's HiFi World about the Thorens TD125, a turntable I've always enjoyed immensely. The one pictured on the first page of this thread was the second one I'd owned and loved, but for some reason - probably 'guilt' at having too many turntables - I sold it on last year, together with a nice SME 3009 'non-improved' arm. I almost immediately regretted it, but fortunately Geoff (Oldius) let me have his stunning one at a decent price. Anyhow, I've finally got around to setting it up with my Audio Note arm and cartridge, and am thoroughly enjoying being 'back home'. As you can see from the pics below, it is housed in an ebony Russ Collinson creation, and I'll not be selling this one anytime soon! The AN arm and cartridge are quite dynamic, and complement the TD125 really nicely.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20012_zpszxavezrd.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20012_zpszxavezrd.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20016_zps9zauxalw.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20016_zps9zauxalw.jpg.html)
That is a beautiful table Peter! I find myself liking the Thorens tables more and more.
I'm so pleased to see that gorgeous deck being enjoyed. I had that plinth custom built around the deck as Russ had no drawings!
Even though I say it myself, it is the nicest td125 I've seen! Is it still running well Peter?
Hi Geoff.
Yes, it is running beautifully. Very pleased. Actually, I'd swear this TD125 is better in the bass than the two I've owned before, but I kinda fail to see why a heavier/better plinth should make much of a difference to a sprung turntable? :scratch:
Russ remembers your plinth well, and I have just commissioned him to make a matching one for my 401. It turned out that he still had some of the same veneer left from your build ... the exact same sheet, so a perfect match ... and just enough to do the job. It arrives next week, so we'll have 'twins'! Betty Belt and Iris Idler :lol:
That is a beautiful table Peter! I find myself liking the Thorens tables more and more.
Hi Don.
On your side of the pond, the best examples of Thorens I have seen are done by Artisan Fidelity.
http://www.artisanfidelity.com/IMG_2120-1900-web.jpg
http://www.artisanfidelity.com/008-2-1100-web.jpg
www.artisanfidelity.com
The earlier TD124 has a huge following here in Europe, and a well-fettled one takes some beating. The best I've heard is owned by a member of this forum (Montesquie) ... it blew me away that so much could come from such a small, neat package. OTOH, they are quite complex mechanically, and I've also heard some not-so-well-fettled ones sounding distinctly average.
Have the AN-Es arrived yet?
Hi Geoff.
Yes, it is running beautifully. Very pleased. Actually, I'd swear this TD125 is better in the bass than the two I've owned before, but I kinda fail to see why a heavier/better plinth should make much of a difference to a sprung turntable? :scratch:
Russ remembers your plinth well, and I have just commissioned him to make a matching one for my 401. It turned out that he still had some of the same veneer left from your build ... the exact same sheet, so a perfect match ... and just enough to do the job. It arrives next week, so we'll have 'twins'! Betty Belt and Iris Idler :lol:
Great to hear Peter. I think the 125 is a seriously underrated deck and in many respects I believe it superior to the 124.
I see there is an article in this month's HiFi World about the Thorens TD125, a turntable I've always enjoyed immensely. The one pictured on the first page of this thread was the second one I'd owned and loved, but for some reason - probably 'guilt' at having too many turntables - I sold it on last year, together with a nice SME 3009 'non-improved' arm. I almost immediately regretted it, but fortunately Geoff (Oldius) let me have his stunning one at a decent price. Anyhow, I've finally got around to setting it up with my Audio Note arm and cartridge, and am thoroughly enjoying being 'back home'. As you can see from the pics below, it is housed in an ebony Russ Collinson creation, and I'll not be selling this one anytime soon! The AN arm and cartridge are quite dynamic, and complement the TD125 really nicely.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20012_zpszxavezrd.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20012_zpszxavezrd.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20016_zps9zauxalw.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20016_zps9zauxalw.jpg.html)
Beautiful, just beautiful! :) What cartridge are you using?
Idlewithnodrive
04-05-2015, 11:09
Fantastic looking 125 that Peter.
Now you've made me wish I hadn't sold on your old one :(
Beautiful, just beautiful! :) What cartridge are you using?
Thanks Barry. It's an Io1, which I've had for a couple of years now on a variety of turntables. I reckon it's a good match on this deck, even if it's not one many people would probably try. As Geoff says, the TD125 is a serious deck, if somewhat unfashionable on the forums it seems. Some say it has a rather 'lightweight' sound, but combined with the power and dynamicism of the Io, it does the business right across the spectrum as far as I'm concerned. 'Balanced' is the word I'd use ...
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20013_zpsjspys2ea.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20013_zpsjspys2ea.jpg.html)
Here's a photo Russ sent of the 'twin' plinth he's making for my 401. Can't wait to get it :D
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Img_80241_zpsnbwdbquy.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Img_80241_zpsnbwdbquy.jpg.html)
Ali Tait
04-05-2015, 16:45
Nice.
Thats a big "dod" of wood as we say oop North.
Very nice. :)
And another ...
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Img_8023_zpsj8tvaeru.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Img_8023_zpsj8tvaeru.jpg.html)
Peter, fantastic little blog. Those two plinths are going to look great when sitting side by side.
I heard what is now your Thorens 125 many times when it belonged to Geoff. A lovely sounding thing which was up there in the same league as his 401.
Interesting to see the pic of your new plinth. That spirit level in the corner suggests that your old plinth may have been a Collinson one too. Im very happy with it, although it is not here yet as it is away for a bit of TLC on the corner.
Nice one.
Hi Brian!
The way I have the TD125 set-up, it actually does a fair bit of what the Platine does so well ... detail and soundstaging .. but on a smaller scale. I find both those turntables to be very 'natural' in their presentation, with no undue emphasis on any aspect of the presentation. They just get on with the job.
Good to hear the old lump is getting a make-over. I think you'll be delighted with its 'sound' / effectiveness, although the accompanying hernia might not be so welcome :)
Not so sure about your deduction, as I specifically asked Russ for the spirit level on the new one, although he did say he'd fitted ones before. Why not send him a picture and ask?
After we met up the other week, I was thinking about your comments about enjoying fiddling with turntables, and not being ready for your 'final turntable' yet. Hmmm ... me too!
Maybe the Platine will have to go :scratch:
Ok, so my detective skills are more Inspector Clousseau than Inspector Morse, but with the spirit level being the same, and placed in an identical position, I just thought.........
Maybe not.
Actually it is not something that worries me, so I wont get in touch with Russ.
Yes, I think it is far too early for you to be settling down with the "final" version. So, I will up my offer to £1100 for the Platiner. Go on, you know it makes sense.
Yes, I think it is far too early for you to be settling down with the "final" version. So, I will up my offer to £1100 for the Platine. Go on, you know it makes sense.
Triple the offer and I'll be doing you a favour :D
It's arrived ... new plinth for 401
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20011_zpsbmvofq6q.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20011_zpsbmvofq6q.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20014_zpslpz4xayi.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20014_zpslpz4xayi.jpg.html)
The twins ....
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20029_zpspeb2rol3.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20029_zpspeb2rol3.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20031_zpsxaqmuhbw.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20031_zpsxaqmuhbw.jpg.html)
Ali Tait
09-05-2015, 17:00
Very nice indeed!
Those are absolutely superb!
Ali Tait
09-05-2015, 17:36
How does the 401 sound?
montesquieu
09-05-2015, 18:03
Mucho fantastico.
The twins ....
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20031_zpsxaqmuhbw.jpg
Beautiful spinners! Absolutely stunning!
And the setting looks absolutely splendid too!
Would i be lying if i said that Genesis - Foxtrot and Trespass is reasonably close to the middle section there? ;)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20011_zpsbmvofq6q.jpg
Ooh! An Ortofon SPU mounted in an SME M2-12R arm. Wonderful - "I wants it, I wants it, I wants it". :youtheman:
How does the 401 sound?
Hi Ali.
Lovely. It's a classic combination isn't it?
401 + 12inch SME + SPU = :D :dance:
Brigadoon
10-05-2015, 08:02
:drool::drool::drool::drool:
That is one lovely TT - you must be a happy chap Peter
Beautiful spinners! Absolutely stunning!
And the setting looks absolutely splendid too!
Would i be lying if i said that Genesis - Foxtrot and Trespass is reasonably close to the middle section there? ;)
Thanks Mike. 'fraid you'd be wrong about Genesis ... which I have in a boxed set. Actually, I just bought Steve Hackett's Genesis Revisited, original released in 1996 and re-issued on vinyl last year
https://www.burningshed.com/store/InsideOutMusic/product/523/6023/
.. which got me re-visiting the originals.
Ooh! An Ortofon SPU mounted in an SME M2-12R arm. Wonderful - "I wants it, I wants it, I wants it". :youtheman:
Well, you can't have, Barry! The SPU is the Anniversary 95 model, and I am super-impressed with it TBH. Certainly the best cartridge I've ever owned, and seems like a perfect match for this arm.
With the 401, I've tried all sorts of platter mats over the last few years, quite liking cork, but often returning to the original one. However, recently I've been using a Puresound Tenuto gunmetal job with brilliant results. It's the first one I have come across which is clearly better, rather than just a bit 'different'.
Ali Tait
10-05-2015, 10:07
Have you tried the Resomat?
That's a lovely combination and I note that you have even matched the feet; I knew my aesthetic sensibilities would rub off! Congratulations, I hope you enjoy decades of great music.
The Barbarian
10-05-2015, 13:01
The twins ....
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20031_zpsxaqmuhbw.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20031_zpsxaqmuhbw.jpg.html)
Id be worried about the weight on those record racks. Not the racks themselves but the top section where all the weight is on the wood dowel. If they were constructed how they would be laid on their sides i would not worry about it.
Id be worried about the weight on those record racks. Not the racks themselves but the top section where all the weight is on the wood dowel. If they were constructed how they would be laid on their sides i would not worry about it.
Good point! Just checked, and they use metal fittings, but only embedded in chipboard. Seem quite solid, but this arrangement is only temporary, with a plan to move the record storage into the next room. Will need to find a new suitable unit to support the decks, though.
Have you tried the Resomat?
No, but it's next on the list of things to try, Ali. I like the concept, as the best mat on the TD125 is the original mat, which supports the record via a couple of raised ridges (similar to the ringmat), leaving the record suspended in mid-air for the most part ... so I expect the reso mat would be very similar, but maybe even better.
got a resomat in shed. used it with success on my srm
Ali Tait
10-05-2015, 14:43
I found it a big improvement on the 401. You need to buy damping O rings for the platter though.
Got rid of my static problems completely too.
got a resomat in shed. used it with success on my srm
PM me if you fancy selling it Grant :pat:
PM me if you fancy selling it Grant :pat:
You would need to get the smaller resomat Peter for the 401 due to the platter having a lip. think its a 286mm. mine is a 300mm
Ah yes, good point!
Thanks for the info, Grant.
From post 55 ...
Actually, I have some Klotz MC-5000 cable waiting to be made up into RCA interconnects, using the same plugs as Shindo use ...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JB8Y148?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00
Must get on with it!
Finally got round to soldering them up, and made up 3 sets of these to play around with ...
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20024_zpscp8sf7hy.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20024_zpscp8sf7hy.jpg.html)
Parkie37
12-05-2015, 15:15
L
The twins ....
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20029_zpspeb2rol3.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20029_zpspeb2rol3.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20031_zpsxaqmuhbw.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/401%20031_zpsxaqmuhbw.jpg.html)
Wow! They look great together Peter! Now you just need to have a plinth built for the Platine!
I hated the platter damping rings on the 401 and found the isoplatmat covered all issues and sounded great.
Thanks Geoff ... I'll try it naked to start with ...
Years ago, I had a grease-bearing 301 with all the Bastin mods in one of his plinths. I sold it eventually because I found it dull and lifeless. In retrospect, I think part of the problem was me following Martin's advice and using not only damping rings, but also the original rubber mat on top of another foam mat. Actually, my abiding memory of that deck was its odour, which someone recently described as 'smelling like the inside of an Avro Shackleton, circa 1952' :D
Ali Tait
13-05-2015, 06:49
I hated the platter damping rings on the 401 and found the isoplatmat covered all issues and sounded great.
Was that with the Resomat?
The TD125 cost more than TD150 AND a TD124 added together when launched. How times change ;)
The TD125 cost more than TD150 AND a TD124 added together when launched. How times change ;)
I know and what a load of nonsense. The 125 must be the biggest bargain in hifi; a high end deck at Rega 3 prices!
walpurgis
13-05-2015, 09:02
I prefer the TD150. It sounds as good and is simpler.
INTERCONNECTS
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20024_zpscp8sf7hy.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Thorens%20024_zpscp8sf7hy.jpg.html)
These have turned out to be perfectly adequate, and I'm now using them on the vinyl rig. Oddly, I had bought the cable some years' ago, before the AoS recommendation, and had built up a pair of XLR cables to link an EAR 868 to a Naim NAP 300. For whatever reason, it (the cable) wasn't a great success ... so, I was rather surprised at how good these RCA ones have been. Thanks to Marco for nagging me to get them built :D
In the past, I have experimented with Rega's recommendation to use the balanced output of the Isis, but had always found the RCA outputs to be slightly better. Despite the fact that I'd come to the conclusion I generally prefer RCA connectors, the acquisition of a Music First MkII preamp prompted me to give XLRs a go once again. This time I decided to get a couple of pairs of basic, cheap microphone-cable jobbies ....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0030LWZCC
.... which I connected up between cd player and preamp and power amp. Now, neither the pre or the power amp are true balanced components (and I doubt the Rega is, either), each using transformer 'isolation' for both their relevant XLR and RCA outputs & inputs, so I wasn't expecting much of a difference ... if anything, I was expecting a slight degradation, as they were replacing some very fancy RCA i/c's.
Result? They work very, very well. No loss of fine detail (which is what I experienced previously), very low noise floor, maybe slightly more dynamic than the RCA predecessors. Not bad for £5.50 a pair! Goodness knows how they sell them for that price, as their construction seems OK. Anyway, just goes to show it's all system-dependent. What amuses me is that previous XLR interconnects that I rejected in long-gone systems included some quite high-end (i.e. expensive) ones. I'm trying not to wonder how they might sound in this set-up :rolleyes:
I prefer the TD150. It sounds as good and is simpler.
Never heard one, so an interesting observation. I prefer the look of the 125, though :)
I do like your sig, Geoff. Actually, I'm not too far from what it 'advises' ... just the DD turntable, really ... there's that damn itch again ... must not scratch itch, must not scratch itch, must not ... too many turntables ...
Thorens TD125
Woke up at 5am this morning, couldn't get back to sleep, so went to listen to some music. Using the TD125, it sounded a bit lacking in bass, and rather sluggish. I remembered I had a new Thorens belt stashed away, so decided to dig it out. The one that came with the deck was a Thacker, and when I took it off and compared it to the new one ... well, it must have been about an inch longer! New one fitted ... now much better. Leading edges of notes have now reappeared, bigger sound-stage, dynamics, bass, etc, etc. :D
walpurgis
13-06-2015, 10:46
Good TT the TD125. Keep it! You'd have to spend a fortune to better it. :)
a new belt is a big upgrade...surprising but true
Thorens TD125
This is the third 125 I've owned, and with all of them I've ended up playing around with mats. Tried all sorts, but always thought there was more to come than the mats were allowing. Been messing around with them again today, when I had a thought. Looking at the Platine, with its metal platter, and then realising that I use a Tenuto mat* on the 401 ... both with really good results ... :idea:
Took off the mat, reset the VTA, plonked the record on ... bingo! Huge improvement. I mean, really noticably better in every way.
Looking round, I see I'm not alone in preferring vinyl resting on the bare platter/metal. In addition to Verdier, VPI turntables seem to follow the same approach on some models. Jeff Day's is another of the same opinion on his always-interesting blog (Jeff's Place). I am guessing there are two 'philosophies' of vibration control, much in the same way as equipment stands. One view says that you should 'isolate/dampen'', the other says 'couple/disperse'. Looks like I prefer the latter.
Now, the platter on the 125 is two-part construction, and so doesn't ring at all when 'in situ', but it does look a bit rough with holes in it, so I am looking for a suitable thin metal mat to put over it. The Tenuto is too heavy for the suspension, so I guess I maybe need an aluminium or alloy mat. Unfortunately, the only one I can see is Japanese and cost $350 via a retailer in New York.
* http://www.hifiwigwam.com/puresound-tenuto-platter-mat/
have you tried a 3mm funk? my fav on my thorns so far. also srm s tripod iso discs between platters is a top tip
walpurgis
13-06-2015, 15:16
TD125 should benefit from strategically placed bracing and damping if retaining the standard plinth.
Parkie37
13-06-2015, 18:36
Thorens TD125
Woke up at 5am this morning, couldn't get back to sleep, so went to listen to some music. Using the TD125, it sounded a bit lacking in bass, and rather sluggish. I remembered I had a new Thorens belt stashed away, so decided to dig it out. The one that came with the deck was a Thacker, and when I took it off and compared it to the new one ... well, it must have been about an inch longer! New one fitted ... now much better. Leading edges of notes have now reappeared, bigger sound-stage, dynamics, bass, etc, etc. :D
I can relate Peter. I had my setup in the family room along with all sorts of other gear, before moving it into it's own dedicated room. I had been bothered by some hum when playing records. Not really bad but it interfered somewhat when turning the volume up to 'fun' levels. Finally with the help of a friend, I/we broke down and ran dedicated ground wires from the turntable to the SUT and from the SUT to the integrated amp. Hum is gone! So much more enjoyable :doh:
I should have gotten up off of my bum much earlier and taken care of this!
Nakamichi
This arrived yesterday.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Nakamichi%20004_zpsocc7mysp.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Nakamichi%20004_zpsocc7mysp.jpg.html)
It's the 7 channel AV amp, which impressed Ken so much in .... http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?38783-A-visit-to-Halfway-Tree
Ran it in overnight, on repeat CD, bi-amped into my Tannoys. Fortunately, the full-width Music First TVC preamp has two sets of XLR outputs, so easy to connect.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Nakamichi%20007_zpsrssnkhak.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Nakamichi%20007_zpsrssnkhak.jpg.html)
Just been playing LPs via the Edwards MC3 phono-stage, so this is the first time in quite a few years that I've got a completely solid state set-up.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Nakamichi%20002_zpst6nesrlh.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Nakamichi%20002_zpst6nesrlh.jpg.html)
Verdict so far? Well, bi-amping seems to change the character of the Canterburys, perhaps for the better. Still got a bit of running in to go yet, I think, but sounding promising so far.
Sovereign
16-06-2015, 17:15
Interesting, looking forward to the review.
Interesting, looking forward to the review.
x2:eek:
Another evening of listening, followed by another night of CD blasting, and it's beginning to really come on-song. To be fair, two of the interconnects and two of the speaker cables are brand new too, so it's not just the amp that is settling.
Initial impressions are mainly positive. The extra power, grip and bi-amping do exactly what you'd expect, with those 15 inch cones now under complete control. I used to wonder why some people always referred to big Tannoys as 'studio monitors', not because they weren't used as such, but because they never ever sounded at all like the hyper-detailed, soul-less, active ATCs I used to own. Well, this amp has certainly revealed a different side to the character of the Canterburys. From Ken's description, I was fully expecting to hear more low level detail (due to very low noise floor), coupled with 'jump out of your seat scary' dynamics (more power), and that is exactly what we've got. What I wasn't expecting was the way it also manages that (rare IME) trick of providing lots of detail, but still integrating the sound into a coherent whole (i.e. music, rather than a collection of noises, if you see what I mean). There is virtually no sign of any of the 'transistor nasties' I have sometimes heard (grainy, etched, hard sound), from deepest bass to highest treble the tone of it is excellent and realistic. Downsides so far? Loss of a bit of soundstage depth; less 'palpabilty' of vocals/instruments that a good valve amp does; rather 'matter of fact' presentation IMO. I suppose some people would say it was telling the truth :) Oh, and I shattered my spine lifting it :(
A couple more things that are worth mentioning. It has a relatively high gain (29dB), which coupled with a 47K Ohm input impedance (rare on ss amps IME), means it works beautifully with my TVC pre-amp, and would probably be OK with a passive pre, too. The other is that my sample has a slight, low level, mechanical buzz coming from the transformer, so needs to be a couple of metres away from the listening position. I've had this before, notably with Naim kit, and it will vary depending on the quality of the mains supply (e.g. any DC components), so may just be a local problem.
So, interim conclusion would be that if you have speakers that have the capability for bi-amping or tri-amping (having true 'split' crossovers, usually needing links to operate single wired), this is an amp that could really open things out. One word of warning, maybe? I think that this amp is revealing enough to really show up poor sources and preamps 'upstream', so, cue famous movie quote ... 'can you handle the truth?' Despite being called an AV amp, this is a proper hifi amplifier, of that there is no doubt. At £400 (+ £40 p&p) direct from the distributer, it is extraordinarily good value. Totally agree with Ken ... I too would not have been surprised if they were asking multiple times that price.
Ken's original thread ... http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?38783-A-visit-to-Halfway-Tree
Nice write-up, Peter, and glad you're enjoying tour new sounds :)
Looks like Ken has unearthed another, you seen it on AoS first, 'SPPV special', with that brute of a Nakamichi! Well done to Ken. It's always great to discover another 'giant-killer' :thumbsup:
I can see quite a few more folk giving the Nak a spin!
Marco.
DarrenHW
17-06-2015, 08:10
I can see quite a few more folk giving the Nak a spin!
Marco.
You'll have to pop round for a listen to mine, it should arrive today!
Defo, mate. Let me know when you fancy it. Not today, as I've got stuff on. Could do it tomorrow? :)
Marco.
DarrenHW
17-06-2015, 08:23
No, can't do this week at all, I've just been dragged into managing another house build (which I've been trying really hard to avoid) so I'm all over the place at the moment. Should really be onsite today but you've got to get your priorities right! I'll drop you a PM save drifting this thread any further (sorry Peter).
p.s. you were right about moving the room around, lots of changes since you were last here!
anubisgrau
17-06-2015, 08:38
there's something seductive how tannoys can sound on the end of a big japanese solid state amps. i've heard a few of these combinations either in japanese bars or record shops and i was always mesmerised, especially for vintage jazz (what you anyway hear all the time at these places). i was inspired to recommend to a friend to match his berkeleys with marantz 80s A-class esotec PM-5 and given the price (slightly over a grand total) it's hard to be beaten.
Glad your liking the amp Peter, this quality of build and sound doesn't turn up at the very reasonable price very often.
Fill your boots guys before the price goes up - it will.
I can't take the credit for discovering this amp as it was Gordon "Halway Tree" that put me on to it, just glad I could spread the word via AoS. :)
Darren - I think the amp will really work well with your Celestions, looking forward to your feedback.
No, can't do this week at all, I've just been dragged into managing another house build (which I've been trying really hard to avoid) so I'm all over the place at the moment. Should really be onsite today but you've got to get your priorities right! I'll drop you a PM save drifting this thread any further (sorry Peter).
p.s. you were right about moving the room around, lots of changes since you were last here!
No worries, dudekins, just let me know when you're ready - and in the meantime, enjoy! :cool:
Marco.
there's something seductive how tannoys can sound on the end of a big japanese solid state amps. i've heard a few of these combinations either in japanese bars or record shops and i was always mesmerised, especially for vintage jazz (what you anyway hear all the time at these places). i was inspired to recommend to a friend to match his berkeleys with marantz 80s A-class esotec PM-5 and given the price (slightly over a grand total) it's hard to be beaten.
The dealer who sold me the Canterburys claimed he'd installed many pairs over the years, and he reckoned the best he'd ever heard were driven by a big Luxman integrated transistor amp. In fact, he was quite insistent that solid state was the way to go with all big Tannoys, especially Westminsters.
anubisgrau
18-06-2015, 10:53
funny you mentioned that, yesterday i had a very surprising encounter with a vintage 100w luxman L-100. what a terrific amp if matched with the right speakers!
Halfway Tree
19-06-2015, 18:19
Peter - great to hear you're enjoying the Nakamichi.
Your description is exactly as I found - no lack of detail, but no edge either and real grip and control in the bass. And I'm impressed that you were able to hoik it up to the top of your equipment rack!:)
Regarding the transformer noise - they all seem to have a very low level hum, although it's not obtrusive. I have several other amps with large toroids and they all hum to a lesser or greater or degree - there's lots of nasties on the mains these days and toroids, especially large ones are the most susceptible. Out of curiosity I priced up a bog standard replacement 40v secondary toroid - it cost as much as the entire amp!
Many of these multichannel AV amps seem to have increased crosstalk simply because there are so many channels close together in one chassis. It's one of the reasons I use two amps as it keeps left and right amplification completely separate. These are about the only two negatives about the amp that I can find and they are not major from my experience.
To my ears they just sound so natural and "right."
Gordon
Sorted out the rack
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/003_zpsuuxvoxws.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/003_zpsuuxvoxws.jpg.html)
And set up the Platine ...
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/005_zpsfnv3qpd6.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/005_zpsfnv3qpd6.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/008_zpsnddfkxtk.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/008_zpsnddfkxtk.jpg.html)
Thanks for the interesting comments, Gordan and Gordon ...
How are you getting on with the new amplifier, Darren? Any hernias, yet? :D
DarrenHW
22-06-2015, 18:01
How are you getting on with the new amplifier, Darren? Any hernias, yet? :D
I'm loving it Peter! As a AV amp I think it's excellent. Still early days yet (maybe 30 hours on it) but may end up replacing my 405's? It is a heavy and bulky beast though, my rack's only just deep enough to accommodate it.
Just got around to trying out the Lounge Audio phono-stage, seen alongside the Edwards MC3 on the second shelf in the photos above (post 135). It's quite a bargain, bought direct from the manufacturer.
http://www.loungeaudio.com/#!lcr-mr-iii/c1vla
Early days, as it's not really run in yet, but sounding quite promising so far.
Has the Nak. replaced your Ear 534, or is it just a summer amp?
Hi Andrew.
I am off work & at home next week, so will be putting the EAR back in the system at the weekend, which will no doubt rekindle my love of the old girl. But, yes I have been enjoying a cooler listening room recently :)
I also have a lovely pair of Harbeth HL-P3ESR mini-monitors, which are sublime with the 534, so may end up with two systems :doh:
lordmortlock
24-07-2015, 07:06
Really interested to hear more about the LCR Peter. Quite tempted myself, seems excellent vfm. How does it compare to the Edwards?
Floyddroid
24-07-2015, 09:07
Hat's off. Totally class.
Been playing the Lounge Audio over the weekend.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20150727_101439_zpsfbpopyam.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150727_101439_zpsfbpopyam.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20150727_101557_zps8qhyn9ne.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150727_101557_zps8qhyn9ne.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20150727_101530_zpsshcepytm.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150727_101530_zpsshcepytm.jpg.html)
I was intrigued enough to buy this 'blind' on the basis of having heard an up-market LCR phono-stage on several occasions, coupled with rave reviews for it on the internet (although mostly from people upgrading from integrated stages and/or comparing with entry-level stand-alones). Anyway, clearly I was hoping for some of that high end performance at a budget price point. I mean, I have owned cables costing four times this! Bought direct from the manufacturer in USA, $300 exchanged as £241.78 incl postage, then HM Customs grabbed another £52.90, so just under three hundred quid when all done. Delivery was prompt, too, taking less than a fortnight.
So, I have been using it with both my usual Hashimoto SUT + mc cartridges, and also a newly acquired Audio Technica 440MLb mm jobbie. First thing to say, is that its noise floor seems quieter than the quoted -74dB would indicate ... only very slight residual hiss at extreme volume. This helps with low level detail. It took a little while to come on song, but once going it started to impress. One of the areas that I was most sceptical about was the use of op-amps, which IME add a slight, but unpleasant, signature sound to everything they touch. No sign of that here, though. Tone and timbre are excellent, with the overall presentation being similar to a good valve phono-stage. Relaxed, coherent and spacious, there is a good 3D sound-stage, with instruments placed accurately. Dynamics are more than adequate, with plenty of detail being present, but integrated into the music. However, if you value a presentation that highlights forensic detail and hi-fi-spectacular dynamics, then you may not be so impressed. But, IMO, this is more realistic, and particularly suits acoustic music, jazz and classical.
In some ways, it reminds me of a well-fettled EAR 834P in its presentation. To my ears, there is an ever so slight (and I mean very slight) bass emphasis, which works well IMO. Whether this is a US preference, or whether voiced for stand-mount speakers, it only adds to its appeal for me. Overall, this isn't quite in the same league as something like the Vida or my Shindo, but it's way, way better than £300 would suggest. It looks cool too, with the blue glow top :)
walpurgis
27-07-2015, 11:33
it reminds me of a well-fettled EAR 834P in its presentation.
It probably wouldn't appeal to me then. But there's no doubt that it is good value.
Really interested to hear more about the LCR Peter. Quite tempted myself, seems excellent vfm. How does it compare to the Edwards?
Hi Jake.
As you may already know, the Edwards is a very good, highly adjustable, ss phono-stage, and has the classical attributes of the breed .. in spades. IMO, the Lounge Audio is a slightly different beast, perhaps best viewed as a fuss-free version of a good valve phono-stage. It doesn't have the last smidgen of transparency that the best have, but it's darned close. For someone with a high-end stage already, this would be an excellent 2nd system/back up choice. PM me if any specific questions.
Cheers, Peter
It probably wouldn't appeal to me then. But there's no doubt that it is good value.
Hi Geoff.
'In some ways' ... 'well fettled' ... was what I said :). Actually, it is more transparent than the EAR, but shares its focus on'integration' of the music ... and costs about a thousand pounds less. I have found that it strikes a good middle-way between the differing presentations of my Edwards MC3 ss and my Shindo valve stages. Actually, I am not wholly convinced it's fully run in yet, so maybe a bit more to come?
walpurgis
27-07-2015, 12:24
Yes. In value for money terms. The 834P is not a bargain soundwise. I had the MC version for some time. The integral SUTs are dull and unrevealing (I used a separate one) and the general presentation, although pleasant is not the last word in grip or accuracy. Out of curiosity, I bought a Graham Slee ERA V Gold with PSU-1 to try, having read good reviews and it trounced the EAR in every respect. I kept the ERA V Gold for some years.
Yes, agree about the 834P ... the mc transformers can easily be improved upon. Better as a mm only device.
In my clumsy way, I was trying to say that the Lounge Audio presents the music in an integrated fashion, rather than separating out all the component parts, like some do.
I forgot to mention that I have been very impressed with the AT440MLb when combined with the Lounge ... they do seem to complement each other exceptionally well, with the cartridge's detail and excellent high frequency performance (both no doubt due to the stylus) adding to the phono-stage's strengths. Some of the best results I've ever had from a mm cart :D Enjoying them now, and wondering whether I actually need anything 'better' :scratch:
lordmortlock
27-07-2015, 21:28
Really interesting, thanks Peter. I think I'll give one of these a go.
Getting quite used to the blue glow....
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20150728_215818_zpsfysrnbks.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150728_215818_zpsfysrnbks.jpg.html)
Looking awesome Peter. could dry your undies on that belt when not in use:lol:
Looking awesome Peter. could dry your undies on that belt when not in use:lol:
He could probably swing from it ....
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/BabyOrangutan_zpspj2slym7.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/BabyOrangutan_zpspj2slym7.jpg.html)
He could probably swing from it ....
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/BabyOrangutan_zpspj2slym7.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/BabyOrangutan_zpspj2slym7.jpg.html)
:lol: cute
Parkie37
29-07-2015, 04:19
Getting quite used to the blue glow....
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20150728_215818_zpsfysrnbks.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150728_215818_zpsfysrnbks.jpg.html)
That Platine looks so cool!
anubisgrau
29-07-2015, 12:12
interesting you introduced a LCR unit in your system just at a similar time i did in mine..... i have a problem of finding a reference point to see what actually LCR circuit brings in, i can only compare it to my non-LCR phono and both are excellent, i think i keep them both just for any case. as both are DIY units of a dubious visual appeal (hence difficult to sell) /one is ron welborne classic mu follower MOSFET/ECC88/ECC83 schematics, another is a shishido 600 ohm ECC88 LCR/, i think it makes no sense to sell for peanuts when both outperformed 2-3k brand units.
montesquieu
29-07-2015, 12:20
interesting you introduced a LCR unit in your system just at a similar time i did in mine..... i have a problem of finding a reference point to see what actually LCR circuit brings in, i can only compare it to my non-LCR phono and both are excellent, i think i keep them both just for any case. as both are DIY units of a dubious visual appeal (hence difficult to sell) /one is ron welborne classic mu follower MOSFET/ECC88/ECC83 schematics, another is a shishido 600 ohm ECC88 LCR/, i think it makes no sense to sell for peanuts when both outperformed 2-3k brand units.
I never thought I'd move away from a valve phono stage but the Aurorasound Vida has been so exceptional on any measure, it was a no brainer after I heard it and I was lucky enough to pick up almost the only second hand one I've ever seen for sale ... its particular characteristics meant it didn't work well with a passive TVC but with an active preamp I've never heard anything to beat it ... in the world of hifi product (DIY being a different story) its £3k retail price is arguably something of a bargain.
With this new unit, it's very interesting that the LCR approach has been 'democratised', as previous LCR boxes (off the shelf ones at any rate) have always come at a considerable premium. Tempted to grab one and tuck it away or use it in the study.
I recall readings somewhere a technical explanation about what LCR brings to the party but I can't remember where I read it! (And not sure I'd necessarily have followed it anyway).
Lovely rack btw, a decco audio buy I presume.
Yes, it's a Something Solid XR rack, designed and built by Mark Orr, who is a partner at Deco. However, this one was bought many years' ago from Signals at Ipswich. It's my longest-owned bit of kit ... can't recommend it highly enough ... may look a bit odd, but absolutely superb sounding ... assuming you're into listening to furniture, that is :lol:
Just bought Marks missing link feet from decco for my shan shimna speakers (concrete), the improvement is startling. The spikes don't touch the ground, talented designer !
With this new unit, it's very interesting that the LCR approach has been 'democratised', as previous LCR boxes (off the shelf ones at any rate) have always come at a considerable premium. Tempted to grab one and tuck it away or use it in the study.
Hi Tom.
A couple of further observations. The Lounge Audio now has about 25 hours on it, and it is still seemingly becoming more 'transparent' by the day, revealing more fine detail, etc.. The other thing is I am actually more impressed with it used with my mm cart than with mc + SUT, having a very appealing 'immediacy' to its presentation.
Parkie37
09-08-2015, 04:53
Peter;
I see that you have sold some very nice and very high end Audio Note interconnects and now the IoI is up for sale. That will make quite a change to your system. Were you unhappy with them or just making a change?
Hi Don.
No, not unhappy with any Audio Note stuff I've had ... it is all superb. Actually, I still have a pair of kit-made Es in the living room system, which gets used most days. My wife was a pro classical musician and she just loves them. Had a Meishu too, once upon a time, which was also gorgeous. However, I'm currently besotted with the charm of 12 inch arms, and the combo of a good SPU, the SME M2-12R and the Platine is quite magical. In fact, I just bought (yet) another SPU today, so the addiction is clearly getting out of control :eek:. Having already sold my AN3 arm, the Io wasn't getting any use, so that's why it's for sale. It is a superb cartridge, no doubt about that, and for sure it is the best 'all-rounder' I have ever owned. Wanna buy it? :lol:
Jack Durant at BD Audio recently commissioned a range of graphite turntable accessories, including an interesting-looking platter mat. Now Jack distributes Verdier products in the UK, so it was a fair bet that it'd work well with the Platine, so I took a punt.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20150809_111623_zpseqwnsjfg.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150809_111623_zpseqwnsjfg.jpg.html)
Not only looks good, but a significant upgrade. :D The Platine's famously vast soundstage now has a better degree of precision, generally sounding more incisive, and just ... better! It never ceases to amaze me to hear what a change of mat can do to a turntable.
Parkie37
09-08-2015, 23:11
Hi Don.
No, not unhappy with any Audio Note stuff I've had ... it is all superb. Actually, I still have a pair of kit-made Es in the living room system, which gets used most days. My wife was a pro classical musician and she just loves them. Had a Meishu too, once upon a time, which was also gorgeous. However, I'm currently besotted with the charm of 12 inch arms, and the combo of a good SPU, the SME M2-12R and the Platine is quite magical. In fact, I just bought (yet) another SPU today, so the addiction is clearly getting out of control :eek:. Having already sold my AN3 arm, the Io wasn't getting any use, so that's why it's for sale. It is a superb cartridge, no doubt about that, and for sure it is the best 'all-rounder' I have ever owned. Wanna buy it? :lol:
It is funny that you ask. I just recently placed an order for an IoGold and AN-S8/L. I have completely blown my budget and still have some saving to do to finish paying for both items, but I am VERY excited for my future upgrade! Had I seen your IoI for sale a couple of weeks ago, I probably would have taken you up on it : ) As I mentioned before, it is only the good will of my dealer working out a decent price for me (as well as me selling off all of my other hobby items like my Meitner DAC and all of my headphones and my guitars and camera lenses and.......) that has allowed me to take this enormous plunge.
Parkie37
09-08-2015, 23:15
Jack Durant at BD Audio recently commissioned a range of graphite turntable accessories, including an interesting-looking platter mat. Now Jack distributes Verdier products in the UK, so it was a fair bet that it'd work well with the Platine, so I took a punt.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20150809_111623_zpseqwnsjfg.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150809_111623_zpseqwnsjfg.jpg.html)
Not only looks good, but a significant upgrade. :D The Platine's famously vast soundstage now has a better degree of precision, generally sounding more incisive, and just ... better! It never ceases to amaze me to hear what a change of mat can do to a turntable.
That really does look fabulous on the Platine. I bet it would look good on my VPI Classic 3 as well ; ) Do you find that it isolates the record from the outside world and the associated noises and vibrations as well?
Difficult to tell, Don, as the Platine is well isolated already .. apart from the mag lev , it also has sprung feet ... but the mat is quite dense and acoustically 'dead'. It is also quite thick and weighty, so best to check if suitable adjustment is available on a deck before buying.
http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/product/graphite-turntable-mat/
There are also matching record weights and a headshell, so you could go completely graphite, I suppose :)
I just recently placed an order for an IoGold and AN-S8/L. I have completely blown my budget and still have some saving to do to finish paying for both items, but I am VERY excited for my future upgrade!
Truly fantastic cartridge and SUT you're getting! It doesn't get much better IME ... unless you sell the limo and a couple of unnecessary organs, and go for the Io Ltd and S9 :eyebrows:
Sovereign
13-08-2015, 07:16
Hi Peter
How are you getting on with your big multi Chanel amp, is it still as good as it first promised to be ?
Yes, James ... it's working very well, with four of its channels bi-amping the Tannoys. To my ears it is very 'neutral' and matter-of-fact ... just amplifies the music, really. Some might find it a little lacking in 'character', but in my set-up I like that in a power amp!
Unfortunately, I see the distributor has hiked the price to £600. IMO, still a bargain.
Sovereign
13-08-2015, 09:39
That's good to hear, sorry terrible pun, as you say £600 is probably still an astonishing bargain.
Parkie37
10-09-2015, 05:13
Peter, did you ever try your IO I cartridge on your Platine/SME combo? Perhaps it is a compliance mismatch, but I can't help but wonder how good it might sound together?
Yes, I did. The SME effective mass is actually not super high with the standard headshell, more like 'medium' (18 grams according to SME), so it worked OK, with no issues. The sound was 'solid', with plenty of detail. I preferred it to the Arm3, actually. The Io1 is lighter than the Gold you are getting, which I would anticipate would be an even better match with the SME.
BTW, I decided to keep the Io1, as I think I may have found another arm for it that overcomes the (admittedly, slight) doubts I felt in combo with the AN arm. Will report more in a few weeks, once I get it sorted.
Parkie37
13-11-2015, 12:44
Yes, I did. The SME effective mass is actually not super high with the standard headshell, more like 'medium' (18 grams according to SME), so it worked OK, with no issues. The sound was 'solid', with plenty of detail. I preferred it to the Arm3, actually. The Io1 is lighter than the Gold you are getting, which I would anticipate would be an even better match with the SME.
BTW, I decided to keep the Io1, as I think I may have found another arm for it that overcomes the (admittedly, slight) doubts I felt in combo with the AN arm. Will report more in a few weeks, once I get it sorted.
Ok, so now it's my turn to turn the tables on you ; )
What is the new tonearm and what concerns did you have with the AN tonearm? As I just ordered an AN Arm 3 v2, to mount on my TT-2 Deluxe, please let me know what your issues were!
I appreciate any and all honesty : )
Hi Don!
It's a German arm, a Brinkmann 10.5 I'll post some pics soon, but it is this ... http://www.brinkmann-audio.de/main.php?prod=tonarm105&lang=en
It is based on the Swiss Breuer design from some years ago, and is a totally fabulous item ... beautiful design, stunning fabrication .. pretty much as good as it gets imo. Comparing it to the AN is not really fair, as it retails for around four times as much.
My concerns regarding the AN3 arm with the Io1 were a very slight 'hollowness' or lack of 'body' to vocals, making them seem a bit 'lightweight' in comparison to say the SPU A95. I always put that down to the cartridge ... after all it is the bottom of the range ... and it wasn't something I'd ever noticed when hearing Io Golds or Ltds on that arm in other people's systems. That's why I decided to sell the Io1 a while back. Fortunately it didn't sell, and when I got the opportunity to buy the Brinkmann, it turned out to be a real synergistic pairing ... they complement each other beautifully. I am getting, basically, more of everything ... better tone, faster transients, bigger/deeper soundstage. They are a lovely combination, and very possibly the end of the road for me ... unless you decide to sell me your Gold in your next yard sale :D
I use a Breuer Dynamic Type 5A arm on one of my decks. Your Brinkmann 10.5 arm is based on the Breuer Type 8C and is one of the best arms available today - I'm very envious, as I am of your SME M12-R.
The Brinkmann 10.5 arm ought to be a perfect match with your Audio Note Io.
Looking forward to reading your findings.
Ammonite Audio
14-11-2015, 12:41
I have owned the Audio Note Arm3 v2 since the moment that they came out and do not recognise the criticisms outlined above. The design is a radical simplification of some inspired ideas from Helius which did not tend to work in practice. The result is an arm demonstrating effortless poise and musicality. Some people, including reviewers, find the small degree of play in the horizontal bearing difficult to understand and accept, but it's actually part of the design and does not matter in practice. I don't think there is another arm at the price that will get near, for the money.
The Arm3, with the Io, on a new generation TT2 makes, IMO a lovely combination. Stretch to the AN-S9 SUT and heaven is not far away. I have enjoyed these things vicariously through a friend who is lucky to be connected with Audio Note.
Ok, so now it's my turn to turn the tables on you ; )
What is the new tonearm and what concerns did you have with the AN tonearm? As I just ordered an AN Arm 3 v2, to mount on my TT-2 Deluxe, please let me know what your issues were!
I appreciate any and all honesty : )
Parkie37
14-11-2015, 12:41
Hi Don!
It's a German arm, a Brinkmann 10.5 I'll post some pics soon, but it is this ... http://www.brinkmann-audio.de/main.php?prod=tonarm105&lang=en
It is based on the Swiss Breuer design from some years ago, and is a totally fabulous item ... beautiful design, stunning fabrication .. pretty much as good as it gets imo. Comparing it to the AN is not really fair, as it retails for around four times as much.
My concerns regarding the AN3 arm with the Io1 were a very slight 'hollowness' or lack of 'body' to vocals, making them seem a bit 'lightweight' in comparison to say the SPU A95. I always put that down to the cartridge ... after all it is the bottom of the range ... and it wasn't something I'd ever noticed when hearing Io Golds or Ltds on that arm in other people's systems. That's why I decided to sell the Io1 a while back. Fortunately it didn't sell, and when I got the opportunity to buy the Brinkmann, it turned out to be a real synergistic pairing ... they complement each other beautifully. I am getting, basically, more of everything ... better tone, faster transients, bigger/deeper soundstage. They are a lovely combination, and very possibly the end of the road for me ... unless you decide to sell me your Gold in your next yard sale :D
Hahaha! Yes, not likely to sell the IO Gold soon : )
I sure would love to hear that arm in a well setup system, like yours. There are some designs available these days that may not be brand new designs, but they look absolutely great like the Breuer, as Barry mentions. Brinkmann has a fit and finish that is truly impressive. I would also love to hear the Moerch DP8. Every time I see an ad for one I try to figure out if I can afford to buy one.
Brinkmann 10.5 arm
Love this thing! Exquisite engineering and perfect functionality.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/016_zpsx6zjywro.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/016_zpsx6zjywro.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/013_zpsvte8vqju.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/013_zpsvte8vqju.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/009_zpssn7agnmm.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/009_zpssn7agnmm.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/011_zps4juahqhr.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/011_zps4juahqhr.jpg.html)
Guest Amplifier
The new Audion Silver Night Special Edition
For some time Pete at Deco Audio has insisted a 300b Audion SET will easily drive my (modern) Tannoy Canterbury speakers.
Seems he was right! Stunning in every way .... shame it has to go back on Saturday :(
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/031_zpsordwkc2y.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/031_zpsordwkc2y.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/018_zpsdlsssgc7.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/018_zpsdlsssgc7.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/022_zps8qov0mq0.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/022_zps8qov0mq0.jpg.html)
montesquieu
30-12-2015, 00:03
Hmmm ... Exact opposite of what I found with older version of the same amp and with the PSE mono blocks. Sweet enough in the mids and plenty of volume but lost articulation in the bass, I wonder if it's down to differences in the modern drivers compared to Monitor series?
Parkie37
30-12-2015, 01:23
Guest Amplifier
The new Audion Silver Night Special Edition
For some time Pete at Deco Audio has insisted a 300b Audion SET will easily drive my (modern) Tannoy Canterbury speakers.
Seems he was right! Stunning in every way .... shame it has to go back on Saturday :(
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/031_zpsordwkc2y.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/031_zpsordwkc2y.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/018_zpsdlsssgc7.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/018_zpsdlsssgc7.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/022_zps8qov0mq0.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/022_zps8qov0mq0.jpg.html)
If I was up the road from you and not 4000 miles away, I would love to bring my Meishu Silver over and have a small bake off with the Audion, powering your Tannoys. The new tonearm looks great by the way!
Parkie37
30-12-2015, 01:25
I have owned the Audio Note Arm3 v2 since the moment that they came out and do not recognise the criticisms outlined above. The design is a radical simplification of some inspired ideas from Helius which did not tend to work in practice. The result is an arm demonstrating effortless poise and musicality. Some people, including reviewers, find the small degree of play in the horizontal bearing difficult to understand and accept, but it's actually part of the design and does not matter in practice. I don't think there is another arm at the price that will get near, for the money.
The Arm3, with the Io, on a new generation TT2 makes, IMO a lovely combination. Stretch to the AN-S9 SUT and heaven is not far away. I have enjoyed these things vicariously through a friend who is lucky to be connected with Audio Note.
I'm glad that you like it that much Hugo, as I have an order in for a new piano black TT-2 Deluxe with the Arm 3 v.2, which will have my Io Gold mounted on it and running into an AN-S8/Lo. It should be ready in about a month or so. Nothing but CDs until that time : (
montesquieu
30-12-2015, 01:26
If I was up the road from you and not 4000 miles away, I would love to bring my Meishu Silver over and have a small bake off with the Audion, powering your Tannoys. The new tonearm looks great by the way!
The Meishu Silver Sig / phono version I tried with the Monitor Gold GRFs was utterly dire in every respect. It sounded lovely with AN-E's but couldn't drive the big Tannoys for toffee.
Oddly, the better sounding AN amp I've tried with Tannoys has been the humble OTO SE Siggy. It was lost on bass though which was due to high output impedance and it was notably distorted on piano through the mids. The only single ended amp I've tried which offered any sort of grip was a Horning Sati 520B, but it was a bit rich for my tastes and pockets! Truth is, Tannoys (be that modern or vintage) seem to perform better with PP designs unless the SE design has relatively low output impedance. Not sure about the spec for the Audions but they sure are pretty! Modern Tannoys have a similar impedance profile as the originals...ie like the Alps!.. hence the need for low output impedance driving amps.
Agreed ... which is why I'm rather surprised at what I am hearing. I had a Meishu for a couple of weeks, and it was hopeless with the Tannoys ... exactly as Tom says ... unless you listened to nothing but solo voice that is. Deco stock both AN and Audion, and Pete had warned me that the Meishu was certainly not the amp for my speakers ... but he insisted that the new Audion was a different kettle of caviar ... it has completely re-designed transformers apparently. OTOH, he also says it is still feedback-free ...
It seems to be very well balanced across the whole frequency range, with the bass being nicely competent, tested across a whole range of music over several days. A (non musical?) example that Tom is familiar with ... the rumbling thunder at the start of As Falls Wichita Falls etc by Pat Metheny is startlingly deep and realistic. Also, male voices have the 'body' that only comes with correctly reproducing the bass frequencies ime.
I suppose that the big difference between Tom's system and mine is the room. I listen near-field in a small room, which has non-parallel walls (a converted garage), so is acoustically very easy to drive, so the amp is barely ticking over. Anyway, as I said, I'm as surprised as anyone at what I am hearing ...
TBH, I only borrowed it to prove to Pete that a wimpy SET had no chance of driving my big, bad Tannoys :doh:
Maybe I won't tell him when I return it :eyebrows:
jandl100
30-12-2015, 07:47
Oddly, the better sounding AN amp I've tried with Tannoys has been the humble OTO SE Siggy.
I'm not surprised.
In my experience AudioNote kit rapidly reaches its peak performance as you go up in price. Above a quite low price level, things get more coloured as you increase the price.
You're right! - I'm not an AN fan. :D I have quite strong views on the subject. :lol:
--- I'll make an exception for the Io cartridge, mind. Stunning. :)
But lots of folk do like AN -- fair enough, I guess, it's just not for me.
Silver Night special edition transformers
Going a step further in the design process, gave us an idea of how to improve our already very good output transformers. These are made in house, using a very high purity copper conductor, M6 grade silicon steel and a slightly different dielectric internal substrate giving an extremely high bandwidth (typically <10Hz to >30Khz). Normal transformers are designed for 20Hz - 20Khz. All our output transformers are built and tested to extremely high standards. They are even HiPot tested to 5KV.
The new transformers were designed specifically for the 300B valve. Knowing where the strengths and the weaknesses of the valve lay, enabled us to tailor the output transformer to excel against others
Silver Night special edition transformers
Going a step further in the design process, gave us an idea of how to improve our already very good output transformers. These are made in house, using a very high purity copper conductor, M6 grade silicon steel and a slightly different dielectric internal substrate giving an extremely high bandwidth (typically <10Hz to >30Khz). Normal transformers are designed for 20Hz - 20Khz. All our output transformers are built and tested to extremely high standards. They are even HiPot tested to 5KV.
The new transformers were designed specifically for the 300B valve. Knowing where the strengths and the weaknesses of the valve lay, enabled us to tailor the output transformer to excel against others
Be interesting to find out what their output impedance was, as these could be very promising. The only SE amp that I'd touch with a long bargepole at present is the Tron Atlantic, mainly because of the guy who engineered it, and I hope to be able to report back in the not too distant future of first hand impressions when driving Tannoys with it ;) The Audions are tucked away for further consideration but I'd be surprised if they came close in control to a good SS or PP valve amp. They'd probably be stunning I'm sure when partnered with speakers that present a linear impedance load, like big efficient horn speakers.
I'm not surprised.
In my experience AudioNote kit rapidly reaches its peak performance as you go up in price. Above a quite low price level, things get more coloured as you increase the price.
You're right! - I'm not an AN fan. :D I have quite strong views on the subject. :lol:
--- I'll make an exception for the Io cartridge, mind. Stunning. :)
But lots of folk do like AN -- fair enough, I guess, it's just not for me.
+1 Jerry
Be interesting to find out what their output impedance was, as these could be very promising. The only SE amp that I'd touch with a long bargepole at present is the Tron Atlantic, mainly because of the guy who engineered it, and I hope to be able to report back in the not too distant future of first hand impressions when driving Tannoys with it ;) The Audions are tucked away for further consideration but I'd be surprised if they came close in control to a good SS or PP valve amp. They'd probably be stunning I'm sure when partnered with speakers that present a linear impedance load, like big efficient horn speakers.
Well, don't believe me then! :D Having a background (and degrees) in physics and instrumentation design, I agree with everything you say ... except it easily 'comes close' to controlling my Tannoys as well as a pp valve amp (EAR534) and ss power amps I have owned. I think this amp is atypical of Audion's usual 300b se amps, and like you, I am curious as to what is going on. My guess is that it does have a smidgen of global negative feedback. Point is, Paul, it does sound very much in control. Remember, I borrowed this to prove your very points, so I was pre-disposed towards thinking it'd be lacking in various ways. Unfortunately, it's rather good ...
Well, don't believe me then! :D Having a background (and degrees) in physics and instrumentation design, I agree with everything you say ... except it easily 'comes close' to controlling my Tannoys as well as a pp valve amp (EAR534) and ss power amps I have owned. I think this amp is atypical of Audion's usual 300b se amps, and like you, I am curious as to what is going on. My guess is that it does have a smidgen of global negative feedback. Point is, Paul, it does sound very much in control. Remember, I borrowed this to prove your very points, so I was pre-disposed towards thinking it'd be lacking in various ways. Unfortunately, it's rather good ...
Hi Pete. Sorry, I didn't mean to disparage your findings and do believe what you say. I was just adding that it would be interesting to find out what the output impedance was as it may help to explain what you are hearing, and would point to a very well engineered amp :thumbsup: That would be a breath of fresh air in a sea of mediocrity when it comes to SE amplifiers, many of which boast telephone number price tags! Talking of which, any idea on the price tag for the Audions? I tried a Mastersound 845 once and whilst a very nice sounding amp which delivered low bass, it didn't control the bass nearly enough. My flea powered EAR 869 did a better job. I suspect you're spot on though, and some negative feedback to lower impedance is going on here...albeit with negative feedback the results are possibly load and frequency dependant.
There is the theory and then there is the practise. If you've never had that 'wait a minute this can't be right' moment then you haven't swapped enough kit ;)
Or to take the old military axiom 'no plan survives first contact with the enemy'.
There is the theory and then there is the practise. If you've never had that 'wait a minute this can't be right' moment then you haven't swapped enough kit ;)
Or to take the old military axiom 'no plan survives first contact with the enemy'.
Actually where single ended valve amps are concerned Martin, what you hear usually follows theory. Its just how they work and no magic is involved. Fact is, high output impedance = low damping factor and that is not a good marriage with Tannoy loudspeakers. What Peter alludes to is a well engineered valve amp here with more than likely lower than expected output impedance for a single ended design, or at least engineered for lower than expected Z at low frequencies.
Actually where single ended valve amps are concerned Martin, what you hear usually follows theory. Its just how they work and no magic is involved. Fact is, high output impedance = low damping factor and that is not a good marriage with Tannoy loudspeakers. What Peter alludes to is a well engineered valve amp here with more than likely lower than expected output impedance for a single ended design, or at least engineered for lower than expected Z at low frequencies.
300B SETs done right can sound very good indeed.
montesquieu
31-12-2015, 00:41
300B SETs done right can sound very good indeed.
.... With the right speakers. Ye cannae change the laws a physics ....
.... With the right speakers. Ye cannae change the laws a physics ....
Aye!
.... With the right speakers. Ye cannae change the laws a physics ....
Indeed. I've heard magical results with decent 300Bs driving very efficient horn loaded speakers which is usually a good marriage. The problem comes when too much is expected of them driving speakers with (relatively) high cone inertia, and more variable and lower impedance. Speaker output tends to follow the impedance curve in such circumstances and can get very woolly, especially when the wick is turned up.
montesquieu
31-12-2015, 09:31
Indeed. I've heard magical results with decent 300Bs driving very efficient horn loaded speakers which is usually a good marriage. The problem comes when too much is expected of them driving speakers with (relatively) high cone inertia, and more variable and lower impedance. Speaker output tends to follow the impedance curve in such circumstances and can get very woolly, especially when the wick is turned up.
Actually that 'wick turned up' is probably the crucial part ... At low volumes I could live with 300bs and tannoys but it was when I took it up to critical (as opposed to 'background') listening levels that it all went pear shaped for me. Peter maybe that's where your near-field setup makes the difference ? What do you hear when you crank it a bit?
lordmortlock
31-12-2015, 10:21
Funny old game isn't it?
Peter and I were talking on this over pm. My SET Jsoundlabs produces 8 watts and powers LVs beautifully, yet they sound dreadful with my old Oto ... lifeless and limp. Take that same Oto into AN-e's and you'll blow doors off, yet plug an Audion 300b into those same speakers and the results are thoroughly underwhelming.
Go figure.
Actually where single ended valve amps are concerned Martin, what you hear usually follows theory. Its just how they work and no magic is involved. Fact is, high output impedance = low damping factor and that is not a good marriage with Tannoy loudspeakers. What Peter alludes to is a well engineered valve amp here with more than likely lower than expected output impedance for a single ended design, or at least engineered for lower than expected Z at low frequencies.
Indeed - my point being this wasn't a known factor until the amp was actually put in use. Hence expectations were confounded.
montesquieu
31-12-2015, 11:31
Well, don't believe me then! :D Having a background (and degrees) in physics and instrumentation design, I agree with everything you say ... except it easily 'comes close' to controlling my Tannoys as well as a pp valve amp (EAR534) and ss power amps I have owned. I think this amp is atypical of Audion's usual 300b se amps, and like you, I am curious as to what is going on. My guess is that it does have a smidgen of global negative feedback. Point is, Paul, it does sound very much in control. Remember, I borrowed this to prove your very points, so I was pre-disposed towards thinking it'd be lacking in various ways. Unfortunately, it's rather good ...
Forgot to add: first dibs on the 534 ... ;)
Indeed - my point being this wasn't a known factor until the amp was actually put in use. Hence expectations were confounded.
That's why it would be more than a little useful if manufacturers stated a few things like output impedance or at least damping factor into a stated load in some brief specifications. Very few manufacturers actually provide half the data that you used to get many years ago I suspect because of marketing concerns. There's no real argument not to do it though, as it's only a few additional lines at the back of an owner's manual, plus it could be discretely added to on line specifications.
The issues Jake mentions can probably be explained if the impedance and phase response curves with frequency were known for each speaker, and things like available current into 4 and 8 Ohms plus damping factor were known for the amplifiers. Most AN amps appear to have very low damping factors so wont always be suited to more demanding loads where things like phase angle and impedance swing significantly in the bass region. There's simply no escaping the physics behind what one hears when experimenting with these things but more often than not it becomes a suck it and see approach without the information needed to hand.
Forgot to add: first dibs on the 534 ... ;)
:lol:
I think Pete's quite wedded to the 534 Tom...be surprised to see the EAR go without more extended auditions of other tempting bottles!
Funny old game isn't it?
Peter and I were talking on this over pm. My SET Jsoundlabs produces 8 watts and powers LVs beautifully, yet they sound dreadful with my old Oto ... lifeless and limp. Take that same Oto into AN-e's and you'll blow doors off, yet plug an Audion 300b into those same speakers and the results are thoroughly underwhelming.
Go figure.
My "Nick Gorham special" sounds like no other 300B SET (or push-pull in fact) amp I've ever heard.
The regulation is a bit fussy with what it's fed - as it should be - but get that right: i.e. anything above 218 Volts....and it's the best 8 watts you'll (probably) ever hear.
lordmortlock
31-12-2015, 18:43
I've always wanted to hear some of Nicks kit Gaz. Nothing but great reviews from owners
jandl100
31-12-2015, 20:39
I reviewed (http://hifipig.com/longdog-audio-vdt1-dac/) one of Nick's DACs and was seriously impressed.
cyclopse
31-12-2015, 21:30
I reviewed (http://hifipig.com/longdog-audio-vdt1-dac/) one of Nick's DACs and was seriously impressed.
Wow a hifi reviewer. Never knew this was one of your skills.
Regards
Steve
jandl100
31-12-2015, 21:31
Wow a hifi reviewer. Never knew this was one of your skills.
Regards
Steve
Some would say it wasn't one of my skills. :lol:
Well, the Audion Silver Night SE has now left the building.
After my last post above, I went back and subbed in various other amps I currently own to better see what the Audion's strengths and weaknesses might be. As was said previously, listening near-field in a small room is as benign as it gets for an amp trying to drive big Tannoys. If I said that I'd spent quite a lot of time listening to Harbeth P3ESRs immediately prior to using the Audion, you might be able to guess what is coming next :)
In direct comparison to the other amps, the Audion was clearly better in terms of detail, sound-staging, mid-band and top-end ... even, dynamics. Startling realistic at times. However, I now must admit that the bass performance did turn out to be lacking. It was all there, just in miniature ... just like the little Harbeths, you don't immediately realise that the 'proportions' are wrong until you compare with something bigger. It does bass quite well when the music is simple, but 'retreats' when the going gets tough. Actually, I am still impressed with what it managed (way better than other 300b SETs I've tried), and with the right speakers this would be an absolutely stunning performer.
Forgot to add: first dibs on the 534 ... ;)
:lol:
I think Pete's quite wedded to the 534 Tom...be surprised to see the EAR go without more extended auditions of other tempting bottles!
Too late Tom ... see Central Audio website (sorry!)
Correct Paul ... but, there is a new king of the hill here!
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20004_zpsscazochk.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20004_zpsscazochk.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20012_zpsquotm3vd.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20012_zpsquotm3vd.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20015_zpsq29wizwx.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20015_zpsq29wizwx.jpg.html)
The Leben CS-1000P .... aka 'the end-game' :D
jandl100
06-01-2016, 16:58
Well, the Audion Silver Night SE has now left the building.
.... However, I now must admit that the bass performance did turn out to be lacking. It was all there, just in miniature ... just like the little Harbeths, you don't immediately realise that the 'proportions' are wrong until you compare with something bigger. It does bass quite well when the music is simple, but 'retreats' when the going gets tough.
It must be 20 - 25 years since I played with Audion valve amps. :wheniwasaboy:
... way back then it was a real shock to pick one up for the 1st time. -- back straight, arms flexed, ready .... heave! And the damn thing practically hit the ceiling. :scratch: Simply no weight to the transformers at all. Is it still the same? - could well explain the lack of heft, imo.
jandl100
06-01-2016, 17:00
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20012_zpsquotm3vd.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20012_zpsquotm3vd.jpg.html)
Wow - a good looking Leben amp! Whodathunkit. :D
Do they still have that slightly old fashioned Leben sound, beloved by so many?
canuckaudioguy
06-01-2016, 17:21
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20004_zpsscazochk.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20004_zpsscazochk.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20012_zpsquotm3vd.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20012_zpsquotm3vd.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20015_zpsq29wizwx.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20015_zpsq29wizwx.jpg.html)
The Leben CS-1000P .... aka 'the end-game' :D
Whoa... very, very nice. That is a classy looking amplifier. Me want!
It must be 20 - 25 years since I played with Audion valve amps. :wheniwasaboy:
... way back then it was a real shock to pick one up for the 1st time. -- back straight, arms flexed, ready .... heave! And the damn thing practically hit the ceiling. :scratch: Simply no weight to the transformers at all. Is it still the same? - could well explain the lack of heft, imo.
No, not that bad. The new one I borrowed has newly-designed transformers, which are most likely the reason it performed so well.
Wow - a good looking Leben amp! Whodathunkit. :D
Do they still have that slightly old fashioned Leben sound, beloved by so many?
'Old fashioned' sound? :scratch: Nope.
brian2957
06-01-2016, 17:41
Beautiful amp Peter . If you ever need to store it contact me , my rates are very competitive :D
Really nice amp that one. I used to have Leben stuff before I moved to Shindo, and was always pleased with it. It will play nicely with your Monbrison as well.
Really nice amp that one. I used to have Leben stuff before I moved to Shindo, and was always pleased with it. It will play nicely with your Monbrison as well.
It does! Very nicely ...
I still lust after one of their smaller CS300XS integrated amps actually, so sweet sounding. May have to get one for my office.
You've put together a really nice system that I am sure gets the music right. Very cool!
Parkie37
07-01-2016, 02:46
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20004_zpsscazochk.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20004_zpsscazochk.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20012_zpsquotm3vd.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20012_zpsquotm3vd.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20015_zpsq29wizwx.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/Leben%20CS-1000P%20015_zpsq29wizwx.jpg.html)
The Leben CS-1000P .... aka 'the end-game' :D
That is a beautiful amp Peter! Your system must be gelling very nicely these days. I read a bit about this amp and it is supposed to have less of a romantic sound and more neutral type sound. Is that your impression? I would imagine that might balance nicely with those big speakers of yours and the Shindo preamp and that gorgeous turntable/arm/cartridge.
BTW, I was looking at a few different used turntables before ordering my new (yet to be delivered) AN TT-2 Deluxe and according to a local shop that specializes in used turntables, I had missed a used Verdier La Platine at a fabulous price by about two weeks! It turns out that not many were aware of what it really was, so it sold at a stupidly good price.
That's me, a day behind and a dollar short!
That is a beautiful amp Peter! Your system must be gelling very nicely these days. I read a bit about this amp and it is supposed to have less of a romantic sound and more neutral type sound. Is that your impression? I would imagine that might balance nicely with those big speakers of yours and the Shindo preamp and that gorgeous turntable/arm/cartridge.
BTW, I was looking at a few different used turntables before ordering my new (yet to be delivered) AN TT-2 Deluxe and according to a local shop that specializes in used turntables, I had missed a used Verdier La Platine at a fabulous price by about two weeks! It turns out that not many were aware of what it really was, so it sold at a stupidly good price.
That's me, a day behind and a dollar short!
Hi Don.
Yes, I originally heard the amp between a top of the range Burmester cd player and a pair of Wilson Sashas, and it certainly wasn't adding any 'colour' that I could hear. In my system it seems to do exactly as you suggest ... very happy so far :D
They are rare on the second-hand market, but I lucked into my Platine at a good price, although I had to raise some cash instantly, so I advertised my SME10 and AN Meishu at 'give-away' prices. They sold within 15 minutes iirc.
montesquieu
07-01-2016, 11:08
Nice move Peter .. I had the Leben CS660p for a bit and really quite rated it with the 15in MGs/GRFs, though in the end I went back to PP KT88s as I felt the bottom end was a tad uncontrolled, though the mids were quite lovely. (It was best with KT77s out of all the various tube options). I'm sure the new one is better in that regards, with the KT120s it should be a class act.
I can see how it fits with your Shindo approach, though I wonder if perhaps the EAR 534 would be more to my personal taste - it was indistinguishable for me from the Radford when we tried it (a good thing IMO - a modern approach to the same outcome). I must invite myself to Northampton to hear it! (oops I just did ...).
Anyway it's a gorgeous thing indeed. Have you tried triode/pentode switching? I have found without exception that KT88-type PP amps sound better in pentode, but it's not as if your Canterburys really need all that welly .... could be interesting?
It's funny though a couple of people were speculating who had nabbed this and I was even asked if I had bought it! Great minds and all that ....
Enjoy :)
Hi Tom.
I have had several Leben amps, but not the CS660p. I did quite a bit of 'valve rolling' with the CS600, but always found it to be a bit on the 'warm' side of neutral, and also a bit 'flat' somehow, in combination with the Tannoys . Very nice, but ultimately decided to go with the EAR instead. I actually preferred the little 300xs, which is a lovely thing, full of life and 'bounce', like a lot of EL84 pp amps ime. The other one I had for quite a long time was the phono-stage RS-30EQ, which I bought new. That is very good. I'd still be using it if the Shindo hadn't come up.
The jury is still out about triode vs pentode mode. Will report back in due course.
jandl100
07-01-2016, 12:01
.... I did quite a bit of 'valve rolling' with the CS600, but always found it to be a bit on the 'warm' side of neutral, and also a bit 'flat' somehow
That's what I meant by 'old fashioned'. I never could get on with the Leben amps I've heard. Seems your new one might be more my sort of thing.
Nice amp Pete. I'd be surprised if triode mode was much cop with Tannoys tbh. I don't really understand the fashion for having switched modes when Pentode usually offers by far the superior performance with those valves, it just seems an unnecessary gimmick and offers nothing "better". I tried the CS600 for a while and whilst nice enough, it was a little soft lower down but lovely everywhere else and build quality was good. I'm with Tom though and surprised you let the EAR534 go as that's a class act and uses some global feedback to keep output impedance and distortion nice and low! I note that the Leben is 0.4% THD at 30W output and unsurprisingly, that rises to 1% if switched to triode mode! I remember the CS600 with some fondness with how it conveyed classical music. It had amazing imaging abilities with the right speakers and very good low noise performance with sensitive speakers. I hope you get a lot of enjoyment from it Pete.
Thanks Paul.
Yes, the 534 is/was an excellent partner for the Tannoys, which is why I selected it and used it for the last three years. Ideal maybe, except in one way. What manufacturers rarely publish is the amp's operating temperature. With the 534, it's beyond hot. When on for more than an hour or so, everything, incl the chassis becomes absolutely searing. In my room, it was pretty much unusable in the summer, not to mention the waste/cost of energy, etc. The Leben is comparatively benign in that respect. And I never really liked the bling chrome tbh :D
Agreed, I wasn't too impressed with the published distortion figures for the Leben either, but I doubt if it'll ever get out of first gear in my room ...
The switchable 'mode' switch ... for what it's worth, when I demo'ed the amp, it was through a pair of Wilson speakers, which were vastly better driven in pentode mode. With the Tannoys, I haven't had enough time with the amp to figure out if the triode mode has any merits, yet.
That's what I meant by 'old fashioned'. I never could get on with the Leben amps I've heard. Seems your new one might be more my sort of thing.
Well, with the Wilson Sasha speakers used for demo-ing the amp, it did the 'snap and detail' thing that Wilson owners apparently love, if that's any indication? Although, from what you've written in the past, Jerry, my whole system probably wouldn't be to your taste tbh. But, that's the fun of the hobby ... we're all heading to different destinations via different routes. Although, some get lost on the way and give up, and others (like yourself?) just keep on travelling ... but, I'm 'there' now.
Promise to self ... selling stuff now, not buying* :D
* except music
Well, with the Wilson Sasha speakers used for demo-ing the amp, it did the 'snap and detail' thing that Wilson owners apparently love, if that's any indication? Although, from what you've written in the past, Jerry, my whole system probably wouldn't be to your taste tbh. But, that's the fun of the hobby ... we're all heading to different destinations via different routes. Although, some get lost on the way and give up, and others (like yourself?) just keep on travelling ... but, I'm 'there' now.
Promise to self ... selling stuff now, not buying* :D
* except music
Anything you say may be taken down and used in a court of law...ahem...(licks pencil)...".. but, I'm 'there' now. Promise to self ... selling stuff now, not buying..":ner:
Nice move Peter ..
I must invite myself to Northampton to hear it! (oops I just did ...).
Whoops, sorry Tom, just re-ead this ... yes, you're always welcome!
Parkie37
02-03-2016, 08:04
Peter
I have finally heard a top notch Tannoy setup like yours. A friend of mine is a new reviewer for an online magazine (Part Time Audiophile) and he invited me along to a listening weekend at a long time reviewer's house (Positive Feedback), about 450 miles to the south of us. We grabbed some records, red wine and sandwiches to go and hit the road. 5-6 hours later we arrived and the guys that are fellow music lovers and audiophiles, that live nearby, were there and already enjoying some music.
We listened to a vintage McIntosh MX-110 tuner preamp hooked up to a pair of MC-30 monoblocks, driving a pair of Tannoy Westminster Royal SEs. The source was an Artisan Fidelity Garrard 301 with two Schick tonearms. Each had an SPU mounted on them, one mono and one stereo. From what I can tell, this is probably the finest version of a Garrard 301 on the market today.
You need a pretty big room to let these speakers perform at their best. Here I am standing next to them!
16320
However, when you get them setup properly, they are staggeringly musical and resolving. This system is one of the ten best that I have heard in my life. He has performed some upgrades to the crossovers and to the amps and the preamp. One of the fellows there is an audio designer and he brought along his 'Woody SPU' tonearm. We mounted the stereo SPU cartridge on it, installed that on the Garrard and played the same music that we had just heard. Holy ****! Big improvement in resolution and sense of recording space. It was like this wooden tonearm had no sound of its own. And yet it became even more musical.
I can certainly see why you like your Garrard/SPU/Shindo/Leben/Tannoy setup. If I wasn't enjoying my Audio Note system so much, I would be testing out big Tannoys :eyebrows:
I know already :D
http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=9130
I've been a follower of Jeff's blog for years. I would love a pair of those Westminsters ... and a room to match. In the UK, it is often low ceilings that really limit the potential ime. Jeff's space looks ideal for them.
Good to hear that you rate the 'woody' arm. I was wondering if it was maybe a bit 'hyped', but clearly not! Must get in touch with Pete and get a price for one, shipped here. Import taxes may make it a bit pricey ... maybe a trip to the Pacific north-west to collect in person? :idea:
http://www.vtaf.com/id102.html
How did the VOTT speakers sound to you, Don? The 'Stokowski' ones certainly look lovely, for sure.
Parkie37
02-03-2016, 17:33
I know already :D
http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=9130
I've been a follower of Jeff's blog for years. I would love a pair of those Westminsters ... and a room to match. In the UK, it is often low ceilings that really limit the potential ime. Jeff's space looks ideal for them.
Good to hear that you rate the 'woody' arm. I was wondering if it was maybe a bit 'hyped', but clearly not! Must get in touch with Pete and get a price for one, shipped here. Import taxes may make it a bit pricey ... maybe a trip to the Pacific north-west to collect in person? :idea:
http://www.vtaf.com/id102.html
How did the VOTT speakers sound to you, Don? The 'Stokowski' ones certainly look lovely, for sure.
Hahaha! You are too sharp Peter!
You are right about the size of the room that is required. Jeff has a three bedroom bungalow, so it's not a huge house (it's a normal sized house at roughly 2000 square feet I think), but his main living room area connects to the eating area and kitchen. That allows him to have the proper room to drive the Westminsters. He simply gives up having a normal living room (I would do the same in his shoes!). The ceiling is a bit higher as you suggest.
The woody arm has to be matched properly to the cartridge. But....it really impressed me! It was much better than the Schick - it wasn't a subtle difference. That is saying a lot! The standard version is US $1900 and the SPU version is US $2000. Pete is a gentleman! He will get he details of what you would like to use and in what system and build it to the correct specifications. I mention this because his tonearm didn't match Jeffs mono SPU quite as well sound wise and apparently it was a weight/counterweight mismatch, so that is why the stereo outperformed it. We needed a bigger and heavier counterweight.
The VOTTs are very nice. More similar than dissimilar in sound to the Tannoys. It is another quite large speaker and needs a large room. I couldn't get over the natural ease coming from them - and the imaging! The imaging wasn't as good as a pair of mini monitors, but way better than they look capable of. We heard the VOTTs at Petes with a humble DAC (older Musical Fidelity VDac) and a good but not great tube pre/power. They felt as though they would sound better and better as you upgraded your system. Pete has a collection of used turntables, including some used TD124s and Garrard 301s that are awaiting refurbishing. No, he wouldn't sell me one : (
The Stokowskies are in a small bedroom and powered by solid state and yet they sounded really good! Who knew?
The Stokowskies are in a small bedroom and powered by solid state and yet they sounded really good! Who knew?
Just goes to show that a big room isn't necessarily required for big speakers! My Petite Latours are in a smallish room and they sound magnificent! A lot of the Japanese dudes have big speakers in smaller rooms to great effect as well.
I saw a few pics of Rafe's up on FB, looks like a good time was had!
The Black Adder
02-03-2016, 18:41
I've heard Westies in a good sized room with low/normal height ceilings and they were spot on. I too would love to give some a go but my room isn't big enough.
Jeffs place is a lovely space. He has some nice equipment too! Always a good read.
Parkie37
03-03-2016, 05:03
Hahaha! You are too sharp Peter!
You are right about the size of the room that is required. Jeff has a three bedroom bungalow, so it's not a huge house (it's a normal sized house at roughly 2000 square feet I think), but his main living room area connects to the eating area and kitchen. That allows him to have the proper room to drive the Westminsters. He simply gives up having a normal living room (I would do the same in his shoes!). The ceiling is a bit higher as you suggest.
The woody arm has to be matched properly to the cartridge. But....it really impressed me! It was much better than the Schick - it wasn't a subtle difference. That is saying a lot! The standard version is US $1900 and the SPU version is US $2000. Pete is a gentleman! He will get he details of what you would like to use and in what system and build it to the correct specifications. I mention this because his tonearm didn't match Jeffs mono SPU quite as well sound wise and apparently it was a weight/counterweight mismatch, so that is why the stereo outperformed it. We needed a bigger and heavier counterweight.
The VOTTs are very nice. More similar than dissimilar in sound to the Tannoys. It is another quite large speaker and needs a large room. I couldn't get over the natural ease coming from them - and the imaging! The imaging wasn't as good as a pair of mini monitors, but way better than they look capable of. We heard the VOTTs at Petes with a humble DAC (older Musical Fidelity VDac) and a good but not great tube pre/power. They felt as though they would sound better and better as you upgraded your system. Pete has a collection of used turntables, including some used TD124s and Garrard 301s that are awaiting refurbishing. No, he wouldn't sell me one : (
The Stokowskies are in a small bedroom and powered by solid state and yet they sounded really good! Who knew?
I should mention that the Stokowskies are fed by a top of the line Speck integrated, which is about $9k. It was much like wearing top notch headphones, but yes, they sounded good. There is no way that they should work...but they do!
Been a few items passed through my hands in the last 6 months.
In the living room system, I tried a Rega combo of Brio R and Apollo R in harness with the regular Harbeth P3ESRs. Top marks for ease of use (remote!) and value for money, but ultimately I knew the Harbs were being held back a wee bit, and were capable of more. Next I tried a Trafomatic Experience Two. This is a lovely 300b SET integrated, which gave a huge soundstage, lovely tone and detail, and quite decent 'poke' through the 83dB P3s (but in a smallish room to be fair). So, I was quite happy with that, until the opportunity came up to go back to my beloved EL34s, in the shape of a swap for a Sophia Electric integrated. I was a bit in two minds tbh, as the Trafo is a superb amp (fantastic transformers and beautifully built), but it turned out that the Sophia is a perfect match for the speakers ... thank goodness! Having said that, one of the 6U8A valves started playing up today, but at least it's cheap to replace.
In the main system, the big change has been getting hold of a beautifully preserved Fidelity Research FR-64S arm, which has replaced the SME M2-12R. It's a fantastic match with the SPU A95, which has now become my 'end game' for the Platine.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160403_100905_zpsacey01fg.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160403_100905_zpsacey01fg.jpg.html)
The Brinkmann is getting the best out of an Audio Note IQ1 mm at the moment. I've been playing it direct into the mm input of the Monbrison, while the (2 ohm) A95 is fed through the mc input, with its built-in 30dB Lundahl SUTs designed for vintage SPUs. All very nice, with a flick of a switch being all that's needed to swap between carts/arms. :D
Firebottle
14-06-2016, 06:50
The best of both worlds eh, :wow:
What a lovely turntable/arms/carts combination! Im convinced it sounds absolutely smashing! :)
Been enjoying this lovely amplifier recently. It was bought for my Harbeth P3ESRs, but it is doing a very nice job with the big Tannoys at the moment.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160624_192048_zpsvlsdphbe.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160624_192048_zpsvlsdphbe.jpg.html)
It's an EL34 push-pull (Siemens valves) with 6U8A drivers, which gives rise to all sorts of hyperbole on the manufacturer's web-site. Here's an example ...
Design Objective:
Sophia Electric’s Year 2012 model of 126S tube amplifier was designed for those who desire for 300B level of sound yet output 3x more power than a typical 300B amplifier to drive main stream speakers and for those big horn speakers with 15 inch woofers.
Sonic characters and design features:
1.This Sophia Electric 126S amplifier has lush smooth sound, yet vivid, detail at the same time like 300B amplifier due to its use of user friendly cathode self-bias design, quite different from today’s push-pull amplifiers that use fixed bias.
2. S stands for self-bias design. The use of cathode self-bias is a big plus for ultra user friendly. User can swap any brands of output tubes without the need of re-biasing.
3. Sophia Electric was the first company in modern time to use pentode input driver tube in Push-Pull amplifier since WE 124 of the vintage time. A pair of specially designed output transformers + the use of pentode tube does give Sophia Electric 126S a sonic characters like WE 124, yet output 25W X 2 of power and with easy to use characters like WE142.
4. Integrated dual mono stereo design. Can be used with CD player with or without a pre-amplifier for different sonic performance.
Despite the rather odd claims to uniqueness, it's really rather good. Sort of reminds me of a grown-up/better WAD KEL84 ... which in my book, is no bad thing :D
montesquieu
24-06-2016, 19:03
Nice! I saw that up for sale and was curious, but in the past have found a single pair of PP EL34s not quite enough for the HPDs ... looks like a beautifully make bit of kit. Did you find any info on what the meant by 'unique'? Self-bias El34 can't be it surely? Interestingly my radford also uses a pentode input tube (EF86).
Maybe I exaggerated a bit, and they are not claiming uniqueness, merely unusualness. I was taking issue with their US marketing puff ... after all the full title of this machine is the Sophia Electric Magic 126S-03, and they certainly claim a Western Electric heritage, as discussed in this article - http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue62/sophia.htm
Yet, as you point out, it seems to be pretty much a bog-standard EL34 push-pull with a tetrode input/driver stage .... sort of thing that is probably ten-a-penny in the guitar amp world I would imagine. On the other hand, the fact is that I am up at 5.30 in the morning listening to it, so it's obviously doing a lot right :) I am guessing the emphasis they place on transformer design and fabrication has a lot to do with it, at least according to the article above. Here's another one, not relating to this amp, but with more on the company - http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue53/sophia300b.htm
Anyone ever heard Western Electric amps? Are they that good?
anubisgrau
25-06-2016, 09:50
what western electric? the original ones or clones like magnetic line?
Hi Gordan.
I haven't ever heard either originals or copies, so I'm just curious if anyone else has experience. I understand that some old WE cinema amps are much sought after in the far east, where they are rated by some enthusiasts as the best ever made ... but, there again, these are the same people who pay huge amounts for obsolete ex-BBC monitor speakers :D
Anyone know any good sites for info on Western Electric stuff?
montesquieu
25-06-2016, 11:31
Maybe I exaggerated a bit, and they are not claiming uniqueness, merely unusualness. I was taking issue with their US marketing puff ... after all the full title of this machine is the Sophia Electric Magic 126S-03, and they certainly claim a Western Electric heritage, as discussed in this article - http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue62/sophia.htm
Yet, as you point out, it seems to be pretty much a bog-standard EL34 push-pull with a tetrode input/driver stage .... sort of thing that is probably ten-a-penny in the guitar amp world I would imagine. On the other hand, the fact is that I am up at 5.30 in the morning listening to it, so it's obviously doing a lot right :) I am guessing the emphasis they place on transformer design and fabrication has a lot to do with it, at least according to the article above. Here's another one, not relating to this amp, but with more on the company - http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue53/sophia300b.htm
Anyone ever heard Western Electric amps? Are they that good?
As with everything to do with amps, there's probably no secret, just top notch transformers and overall execution. Good score :)
Nice! I saw that up for sale and was curious, but in the past have found a single pair of PP EL34s not quite enough for the HPDs ... looks like a beautifully make bit of kit.
Yep, right as usual, Tom :rolleyes:
The quality of bass is fine with the Tannoys, but as with all low power amps I've tried with them, control is a bit lacking at low frequencies. Big Tannoys really do need a bit of current up them, as evidenced when I put back the 100 watt Leben back in, and all the low range stuff firmed up. The Canterburys really are a bugger to amp-match properly, but well worth the effort in the end :cool:
OTOH, the Sophia is really very good with the little Harbeths, and was possibly even better with Snell Ks when I heard it being demo'd. It actually is quite 'magical' in the mids and high freqs, and with the right speakers could certainly be something very special. I'm certain that with a good mid-sized standmount, relatively easy to drive, it would easily live up to the hype ... one of the best amps I've had.
Well, the Brinkmann was probably total overkill for the AN IQ1 ... so, I decided to get something a little more 'sensible' ...
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160807_155036_zpsbpr2qv6m.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160807_155036_zpsbpr2qv6m.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160807_155132_zps88ik4qya.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160807_155132_zps88ik4qya.jpg.html)
It's a nice Jelco 250 ... or at least it looks like one! According to Jelco, they don't make a 10 inch 250, which this is ... so, most likely a version they made for an OEM TT manufacturer? I wonder what deck it originally sat on?
Anyway, it's doing a nice job with the IQ1 cartridge, playing my rather distressed old rock and pop LPs from the 70s and 80s. The Brinkmann released more fine detail and dynamics from this cartridge, but also exposed its slightly raggedy top-end. The Jelco is 'complementing' the AN's (slight) deficiencies nicely, so I'm very happy with the outcome. Particularly as the total cost of arm and cartridge was just over three hundred quid. In contrast, the main arm and cart cost a little over three thousand quid ... and I bet most 'civilians' wouldn't notice a great deal of difference! Stupid hobby :rolleyes:
Actually, the FR-64S is also getting on for 10 inch effective length with a SPU fitted, so it seems I have a liking for 10 inch arms. Certainly the three I have used seem to have a good dose of the 'smoothness' and 'sense of ease' of the 12 inch SME I had, but still have most of the 'dynamics' I heard from the best 9 inch ones I've owned (AN Arm3, SME IV).
Parkie37
10-08-2016, 23:13
Well, the Brinkmann was probably total overkill for the AN IQ1 ... so, I decided to get something a little more 'sensible' ...
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160807_155036_zpsbpr2qv6m.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160807_155036_zpsbpr2qv6m.jpg.html)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/Mobile%20Uploads/20160807_155132_zps88ik4qya.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160807_155132_zps88ik4qya.jpg.html)
It's a nice Jelco 250 ... or at least it looks like one! According to Jelco, they don't make a 10 inch 250, which this is ... so, most likely a version they made for an OEM TT manufacturer? I wonder what deck it originally sat on?
Anyway, it's doing a nice job with the IQ1 cartridge, playing my rather distressed old rock and pop LPs from the 70s and 80s. The Brinkmann released more fine detail and dynamics from this cartridge, but also exposed its slightly raggedy top-end. The Jelco is 'complementing' the AN's (slight) deficiencies nicely, so I'm very happy with the outcome. Particularly as the total cost of arm and cartridge was just over three hundred quid. In contrast, the main arm and cart cost a little over three thousand quid ... and I bet most 'civilians' wouldn't notice a great deal of difference! Stupid hobby :rolleyes:
Actually, the FR-64S is also getting on for 10 inch effective length with a SPU fitted, so it seems I have a liking for 10 inch arms. Certainly the three I have used seem to have a good dose of the 'smoothness' and 'sense of ease' of the 12 inch SME I had, but still have most of the 'dynamics' I heard from the best 9 inch ones I've owned (AN Arm3, SME IV).
That looks like a good compromise Peter. I am wondering about your Io1 cartridge though as I haven't heard any reference to a slightly ragged high end before. Perhaps a combination of components creating that? Perhaps a check up by AN to see if everything is ok? If I didn't live 4000 miles away, it would be most tempting to pop by for a visit with my AN SUT. Just to check if it made any difference and to have fun spinning vinyl of course :D
Hi Don. I sold the Io1 a few months ago .... this is the IQ1, the bottom of the range moving magnet cartridge.
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