Power Inspired AG500

[brian2957]

Anybody looking for one of these . Bit of a saving here :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Inspired-AG500-ReGenerator-500W/dp/B008OPWPP6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1365737249&sr=1-1&keywords=power+inspired+ag500

[jandl100]

Nice price - it's the AG500, not the AG1500, so make sure it's got enough power for all you want to plug into it. ;)

[brian2957]

Thanks Jerry , my main concern is to stabilize the power supply to my valve amp . I contacted Power Inspired with the details of the amp and they suggested that it should only take up around 50% of the power available from the AG500 . Maybe plug in the server too if I can . I will post when I have it in my system.

[AlanS]

Make sure you have OVERHEAD for load swings, peaks. 500 is best for sources only not amps. I have the 1500 without magic mains cables

[daytona600]

Brian had a AG1500 the much bigger one myself. moved in on very quickly killed the sound on my system , sounded much better plugged into the wall
better spend the money on a good mains cable or interconnects or isolation platform or mains conditioner or balanced transformer
unless your mains supply is shocking bad

nb - brian your amp works on any voltage & any frequency on the planet 110v to 240volts 50 to 60hz

or install a pv solar system on your roof - pv inverter is a regen unit
bonus you will never get another leccie bill in your life
any surplus energy you get paid tax free & index linked for 25years

[Ali Tait]

Brian, you heard what a balanced trannie does, stick with what your ears tell you mate.

[Gazjam]

Yup, gotta go with that.
I've pulled the trigger on one...well, had to really.

Be good to compare with Brian's Power Inspired.

Need to ask Airlink about the safety aspect we spoke of Ali, emailed them but they haven't came back to me.
Will phone them Monday.

What should I be asking for to be fitted do you reckon?
Could do aftermarket DIY....no problems there (well there is for ME doing it :)) but it might knacker the warranty, dunno.

[Ali Tait]

Yes sure, you get in at Owston Hall?

I'd want a double pole RCBO fitted to the secondaries. Same as on mine.

[brian2957]

Yes , I know what you're saying Ali . Just had to scratch an itch :) Hopefullt we can carry out a direct comparison when they both arrive.

[jandl100]

Nooooo -- my AG1500 is wonderful!

It kicked my old PS Audio PowerPlant Premier well into the weeds. :eyebrows:

Curious that Scott found his killed his system sound - there are dozens of owners on Wigwam, because of the discount offer there last year, also on Il Duce Dung's leetle cesspit of a forum, the vast majority think it's very good, including those using power hungry big valve amps. I wouldn't want to be without mine.

[Thing Fish]

Nooooo -- my AG1500 is wonderful!

It kicked my old PS Audio PowerPlant Premier well into the weeds. :eyebrows:


Really Jerry! A £500 unit bettering one at least 3 times the price?

Maybe i'd better check one of those AG1500 units out...:eyebrows:

That said my mains hasn't really given me a problem...:confused:

[jandl100]

.... That said my mains hasn't really given me a problem...:confused:

Werll - you don't really know what your mains is doing to the sound until you clean it up. :)

But ime the effectiveness of any of these mains doodads is very dependent on the quality of the stuff that comes in. And that varies enormously from place to place and from time to time.

You just have to try it, I guess.

[jandl100]

Really Jerry! A £500 unit bettering one at least 3 times the price?


Yep. The PPP was good, but the AG1500 gave clearly superior sound in my system - it wasn't even close, it was one of those :wow: moments!
The specs on the AG1500 (output distortion) are nowhere near as good as the PPP, though - so I'm really not sure what is going on here! But then I'm no techie - I just listen. :)

Pricewise; the PPP is in a very pretty case :drool: - the AG1500 is very much a piece of utilitarian pro-oriented gear to slot into your studio rack! I guess you're paying quite a lot for the PPP's appearance/build and also for the import costs of the PPP.

[brian2957]

Looks like these regenerators may not only be system dependent but also quality of electricity supply dependent . Anyway when Gary gets his balanced power supply we intend to have a comparison of both his and my AG500 in my system , and hopefully his too . Will report back with our findings.

[AlanS]

See P10 etc vs AG as like cars both get you there but in different styles. You get there but some peoples dicks are bigger than others.

[jandl100]

Well, sadly, I don't think mine's that big. :(

:lol:

[brian2957]

I've just ordered mine ( not a BD ) , hope to get it soon , so we'll see :lol:

[Ali Tait]

Looks like these regenerators may not only be system dependent but also quality of electricity supply dependent . Anyway when Gary gets his balanced power supply we intend to have a comparison of both his and my AG500 in my system , and hopefully his too . Will report back with our findings.

That's the thing, it shouldn't matter how bad the mains is as it's being regenrated. Hmmm.

[jandl100]

That's the thing, it shouldn't matter how bad the mains is as it's being regenrated. Hmmm.

Err, no!

the point is how close the incoming mains is to a pure sinewave - that's what makes the difference. ;) If it's perfect already, then there should be no advantage, the worse it is the bigger the improvement a regenerator should make. :)

And kit responds differently to mains anyway - so that's why it's system dependent.

[Ali Tait]

My point is, a regenerator should ouput the same quality of mains irrespective of the quality of the input. The whole point of it's existence to my mind. If it doesn't do so, it's not designed properly IMHO.

[Ali Tait]

I agree different kit will respond differently. Impedance may be a factor too.

[jandl100]

My point is, a regenerator should ouput the same quality of mains irrespective of the quality of the input. The whole point of it's existence to my mind. If it doesn't do so, it's not designed properly IMHO.

errr - what makes you think it doesn't? :scratch:

[Ali Tait]

Brian's comments, which prompted mine. The way it was worded seemed to indicate a variable output which was dependent on mains input quality.

[AlanS]

P10s have that AG dont

Connect from anywhere in the world

Monitor your system’s heartbeat

Input naming and customization

The touch panel

* MultiWave

* CleanWave

* 100 times lower output impedance

High current soft start

* Adjustable output voltage

Only * items MAY affect SQ the rest are invaluable "features". Be informed.
If those are important knock yourself out.

[Ali Tait]

Aye, but 10 times the price!

[AlanS]

My point is, a regenerator should ouput the same quality of mains irrespective of the quality of the input. The whole point of it's existence to my mind. If it doesn't do so, it's not designed properly IMHO.

Who asked you to write the spec? Be realistic not stylistic.

[brian2957]

Brian's comments, which prompted mine. The way it was worded seemed to indicate a variable output which was dependent on mains input quality.

Apologies if I've misunderstood Ali :doh:. The truth is I know nothing about these things or how they work . Didn't mean to give the impression that I did.

[Ali Tait]

Who asked you to write the spec? Be realistic not stylistic.

Who asked you to comment?

What's unrealistic about mine?

[Ali Tait]

Apologies if I've misunderstood Ali :doh:. The truth is I know nothing about these things or how they work . Didn't mean to give the impression that I did.

No worries mate, it's easy to pick things up wrong on a forum (me I mean)

[brian2957]

Hah ! You're thescottishmafiaresidentexpert mate :lol: och aye the noo .

[AlanS]

Who asked you to comment?

What's unrealistic about mine?

Its a forum not a spec workshop.

Nothing is as amazing as your goal but search away. Do you have a regenerator or thinking of buying one?
Ive got the AG1500.

[Ali Tait]

Wouldn't go that far. However, I don't see what's unrealistic in expecting a mains regenerator to make a good sine wave from a poor one. :scratch:

[AlanS]

They do make good sinewaves and create a constant voltage too. Very useful

[Ali Tait]

Its a forum not a spec workshop.

Nothing is as amazing as your goal but search away. Do you have a regenerator or thinking of buying one?
Ive got the AG1500.

Yes I'm aware of that thanks. Why the confrontational attitude?

I'll say it again. What's amazing about expecting a regenerator to make a good sine wave from a poor one?

No, I don't have one, am interested in hearing one.

I bought a 3kva balanced mains transformer from a member here and built a power supply for my system with very good results.

[AlanS]

Yes I'm aware of that thanks. Why the confrontational attitude?

I'll say it again. What's amazing about expecting a regenerator to make a good sine wave from a poor one?

No, I don't have one, am interested in hearing one.

I bought a 3kva balanced mains transformer from a member here and built a power supply for my system with very good results.

I'll leave you to find out rather than risk futher comment from me. Hear one just buy one.

[Ali Tait]

Have you heard a balanced transformer?

[wee tee cee]

Aye..... they're majik. The only fly in ointment is the fact that I have got up to answer the door half a dozen times but there's knowone there.....bloody soundstage......also someone has been messin with all ma tunes adding stuff into the background.....those pesky kids! (scooby doo reference)

[Ali Tait]

Good to know it's doing the business Tony.

[jandl100]

It would be great to hear a balanced transformer and compare it to my AG1500 - but for numpties like me who shouldn't be allowed near electrical DIY, what are the options?

[Ali Tait]

Airlink Transformers sell them-

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/cat10/61/standard_balanced_power_supplies.html

Or perhaps someone near you has one?

[jandl100]

Airlink Transformers sell them-

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/cat10/61/standard_balanced_power_supplies.html

Or perhaps someone near you has one?

Whoa - gosh - thanks for the link, Ali. :thumbsup:

These are Plug&Play, right?

Hmm - I guess the BPS1500 is broadly equivalent to the AG1500 regenerator in terms of the amount of kit it can support? -- so £292.80 delivered.

I guess I can just return it for a refund if not impressed?

Do you think there would be any advantage to running both the BPS1500 and the AG1500 together?

[jandl100]

... and is the output voltage always the same as the input voltage on these balanced transformers?

(The AG1500 always outputs 230V which is kind of nice.)

[Ali Tait]

Well it's £230 plus VAT plus delivery, so a bit more. I wondered myself about running mine with a conditioner, though since I already use a couple of Belkins I'm not sure there would be much benefit. It also occurred to me that doing this may affect the mains impedance, which may or may not be detrimental to SQ.

However, Brian should have his regenerator soon, I believe Gary is buying a BPS, and I have the one I've built, so we should get a chance to try it sometime soon.

They don't regulate voltage like the PI does, you get out what goes in, and yes,the one you refer to will be plug and play.

[Ali Tait]

They also do conditioning BPS-

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/cat10/46/conditioning_balanced_power_supply.html

Though they are considerably more for what I suspect is just some basic mains filtering.

[jandl100]

Thanks Ali - for less than £300 with a legal right of return (distance selling laws should apply, I think, for a standard unit) then I may well give one of those BPS1500 balanced supply doodads a go myself.


or --- Anyone near me (Glos) with one fancy popping round? Tea/coffee and bics supplied :)

[Ali Tait]

Great, let us know the outcome Jerry, we'll do the same up here if we get the chance.

[brian2957]

Well it's £230 plus VAT plus delivery, so a bit more. I wondered myself about running mine with a conditioner, though since I already use a couple of Belkins I'm not sure there would be much benefit. It also occurred to me that doing this may affect the mains impedance, which may or may not be detrimental to SQ.

However, Brian should have his regenerator soon, I believe Gary is buying a BPS, and I have the one I've built, so we should get a chance to try it sometime soon.

They don't regulate voltage like the PI does, you get out what goes in, and yes,the one you refer to will be plug and play.
I think Gary has had to put the BPS on the backburner for a while mate . I will however be taking the AG500 to his to hear how it sounds ASAP , so aural memory won't be too faded :) . Alternatively I will try to get a comparison with Tonys BPS if I'm not too sure . I'll get back to you on this one . I'm expecting the AG500 early in the week . I'd be grateful if you could post your thoughts also Jerry , if you get a BPS . Ta .

[Ali Tait]

Ok cool, let's see what happens.

[brian2957]

OK mate I'll let you know either way.

[wee tee cee]

Brian,
I would be happy to let you compare your box with the Airlink. I am very happy with what it has done in my set up....had a good listen with the cans yesterday and the improvements were very noticeable. If I had known what a profound effect the balanced mains makes I would have bought one years ago.
Jerry it is indeed plug and play....it aint pretty but it does its job remarkably well-just make sure the 1500 has the juice you require. The one Ali built is over twice the capacity and needed two people to carry it.

[brian2957]

Thanks Tony , hopefully get something arranged , if need be , before the 7 day return period expires. Glad the BPS is improving things for you . I'm hoping for a similar result with the AG500.

[MartinT]

the point is how close the incoming mains is to a pure sinewave - that's what makes the difference. ;) If it's perfect already, then there should be no advantage

Not quite. A good regenerator reduces the output impedance of the mains compared with the incoming at the socket. It can do this without breaking the rules of physics because it's an active device and has a reservoir of stored energy. So, in theory, it should improve on even a well-shaped incoming waveform.

[Ali Tait]

According to the Airlink website, their transformers do this too.

[Chops]

FWIW, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I added a 5kva Airlink balanced transformer a while ago. I already had a dedicated spur feeding a bunch of MK sockets on the wall. No night and day changes for me I'm afraid with this enhancement.

Then added a Belkin PF30 and plugged into it my Chord DAC with a SMPS, SBT with MCRU linear PSU and EAR pre with linear PSU. Left my EAR power amp plugged into the wall socket. Really nice improvement. Actually, very good. Fantastic for the modest amount of money.

My take on this is that the DAC's SMPS was kicking back rubbish onto the supply and messing up the rest of the kit. So the PF30 was effectively isolating it. And maybe my mains wasn't generally that bad or maybe the PF30 was required to let the benefits of the balanced supply be heard. Maybe there's a better explanation.:confused:

Chris

[Ali Tait]

Both Gary and I use Belkins in our systems. As you say, depends on the quality of your raw mains.

[brian2957]

Garys mains must be dire then judging by the improvement we heard the other day :eek:

[Ali Tait]

Aye, that was my thought too Brian.

[brian2957]

If I get 50% of that improvement in mines' the AG500 will be a keeper and I'll be dancin round the room ( when the wife's not in I mean :lol: )

[Ali Tait]

In her dresses again??

[brian2957]

Yeah man , she keeps having to buy new stuff because her clothes are stretched . I keep telling her it's the washing machine. Got a particular penchant for Next clothes :lol: I only started this when I joined this forum :lol:
I guess reading some of the posts on here awoke a latent need to wear dresses ( and the like :eek:) I blame it on a few individuals ( commonly known as daftees ) on this forum . You know who you are :eyebrows: I've even got the Scottish accent.

[Ali Tait]

:lol:

[brian2957]

Instead of a bakeoff the next time we could have a Scottish Mafia Dress up . No flowery frocks though , and no high heels ( they'll play havoc with the wooden flooring ) :lol:

[Yomanze]

Does anyone know how these mains regenerators play with balanced mains transformers? My DAC has one built in.

[brian2957]

Sorry Neil , sorry I can't help you there . Hopefully someone who knows will be along shortly .

[Ali Tait]

Does anyone know how these mains regenerators play with balanced mains transformers? My DAC has one built in.

Your dac has a regenerator built in? Not heard of that before.

[Yomanze]

Your dac has a regenerator built in? Not heard of that before.

It has a balanced mains transformer built in, but it is the only commercial DAC ever I am aware of too.

[Ali Tait]

I take it it's small, just enough to run the dac?

[Yomanze]

I take it it's small, just enough to run the dac?

One of them is the balancing mains transformer.

http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/518821-audial_model_s_dac.jpg

Will ask the manufacturer about things to watch out for as some gear hasn't played too well, but most is fine.

[Gazjam]

Instead of a bakeoff the next time we could have a Scottish Mafia Dress up . No flowery frocks though , and no high heels ( they'll play havoc with the wooden flooring ) :lol:

Brian, yer a strange man. :lol:

ps watch out for revenge "bumps" in your favourite tshirts...

[Ali Tait]

One of them is the balancing mains transformer.

http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/518821-audial_model_s_dac.jpg

Will ask the manufacturer about things to watch out for as some gear hasn't played too well, but most is fine.

So the balanced tranny feeds the other which feeds the dac?

[Gazjam]

Speakin' of trannies...
Brian's last bake off :lol:

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5184/picdump9341.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/picdump9341.jpg/)

[Ali Tait]

You never did suit that skirt Gaz.

[Ali Tait]

Me on the other hand...

[brian2957]

:lol: I'm speechless :eek: You'll have to give me a day or two to reply to this.

[brian2957]

We all look so young in that photo :eyebrows:

[Ali Tait]

Well I do...

[Gazjam]

what happens in Owston stays in Owston....

[Ali Tait]

Eggzackerly!

[Macca]

Christ lads I've not even had me breakfast yet.....

[Yomanze]

So the balanced tranny feeds the other which feeds the dac?

Yep. :)

[Ali Tait]

Guess I better stop saying trannie...

[AlanS]

When is your AG500 due Brian?

[brian2957]

Arrived this morning Alan . Unfortunately I'm working today ( until 8PM ). I will post on it as soon as I 've had a chance to listen to it.

[AlanS]

Arrived this morning Alan . Unfortunately I'm working today ( until 8PM ). I will post on it as soon as I 've had a chance to listen to it.

Will you be investing in a fancy mains cable like the P10 fans do?

[Ali Tait]

Brian makes his own cables.

[MartinT]

Will you be investing in a fancy mains cable like the P10 fans do?

Alan, your continued mocking only serves to prevent you from yielding the best results you can achieve. As I've said before, the entire power draw for your system goes through this one cable and it's very telling because I have found (through three generations of regenerators) that it is a very critical cable sound quality wise. Don't get caught up in the "it's a regenerator so it doesn't care about the power input quality" argument. If that were truly the case then how could a power amp with a switched mode power supply perform better when fed from a regenerator? I can assure you that it does!

Do yourself a favour, borrow a good power cable and try the difference for yourself.

[brian2957]

Got to agree with Martin on this one Alan . As Ali says I make my own mains cables and have been well aware of their ( many different ones )effect on hifi equipment for many years . I'm currently using an Isotek EVO3 mains cable into the AG500 at the moment and will try my own Lapp cables later today . Although I currently don't have the funds I would love to try one of MCRUs mains cables . IMHO David at MCRU doesn't just throw these cables together and hope for the best . They are the result of many hours of trial and error culminating in the best combination of plugs and cables . This appears to be reflected in the very positive feedback people are giving back . I've had one of these ultimate cables in my grubby little mitts and it is indeed a very high quality piece of kit .
I'd love to hear one in my system . Maybey it will work , maybe it won't . The only way to really find out is to try one in my own system using my own ears. One day perhaps :rolleyes:

[AlanS]

Alan, your continued mocking only serves to prevent you from yielding the best results you can achieve.

.....
Do yourself a favour, borrow a good power cable and try the difference for yourself.

I don't need to borrow anything I bought one from our friendly cable vendor and could not detect the slightest difference in sound. I used it on other kit almost feeling inadequate that I couldn't hear what people on AoS can hear (but other forums can't). It is still between my amp and mains socket just in case it leaps to life - I didn't return it, its a cable after all.

I will say this using a cable rated for a 20 amp load, welder, cooker, heaters is OTT for a modest <7amp from your P10. To be honest at the price it would have to produce miracles.

So kindly take the personal comments out about mocking and keep with the experience. You hear benefits from the cables you use I tried some and made sod all difference - I save time and money and enjoy what I have, you enjoy the fine tuning. I hear small difference between some interconnect and speaker cables but mains sorry. I will avoid surmising why one forum all hear differences in mains cables and AN Other forum doesn't.

As Frank, Effem rightly pointed out recently - we are all different

[AlanS]

Got to agree with Martin on this one Alan . As Ali says I make my own mains cables and have been well aware of their ( many different ones )effect on hifi equipment for many years . I'm currently using an Isotek EVO3 mains cable into the AG500 at the moment and will try my own Lapp cables later today . Although I currently don't have the funds I would love to try one of MCRUs mains cables . IMHO David at MCRU doesn't just throw these cables together and hope for the best . They are the result of many hours of trial and error culminating in the best combination of plugs and cables . This appears to be reflected in the very positive feedback people are giving back . I've had one of these ultimate cables in my grubby little mitts and it is indeed a very high quality piece of kit .
I'd love to hear one in my system . Maybey it will work , maybe it won't . The only way to really find out is to try one in my own system using my own ears. One day perhaps :rolleyes:

Enjoy your experimentation with cables then. The AG effect is what I am interested to hear about. Not good at the words to describe it's effect for my system but it is still there. It made the sound richer, finer detailed and solid I guess

[synsei]

Then practice what you preach Alan and stop mocking people who can hear a difference. Horses for courses buddy, horses for courses... :rolleyes:

[AlanS]

Then practice what you preach Alan and stop mocking people who can hear a difference. Horses for courses buddy, horses for courses... :rolleyes:

Yes SIR.....

[Ali Tait]

Have to say my own experience mirrors Alan's. I have certainly heard i/c's and speaker cables make a difference, but not mains cables. Saying that, I only have some Mark Grant mains cables, I've not tried any of the more pricey stuff.

[AlanS]

Have to say my own experience mirrors Alan's. I have certainly heard i/c's and speaker cables make a difference, but not mains cables. Saying that, I only have some Mark Grant mains cables, I've not tried any of the more pricey stuff.

Phew

Thanks Ali I was begining to feel like I must hear something or else.

It would be interesting if someone would arrange a demonstration of their kit that shows what they hear mains cable wise as different then I/we can see if we experience what they do. ATM there is a load of cyber persons talking and getting indignant about it.

[Ali Tait]

Yep. Maybe at the next Scottish Mafia get together we can try some out.

From a professional point of view, I find it difficult to see how they make a difference. Most regulars here know I build high voltage substations for a living, and knowing the often torturous route the electrickery takes to get to your wall socket, often through miles of cable that may be 60 or more years old, it's hard to credit that the last meter can make such a difference.

[Ali Tait]

Not that I'm closed-minded on the subject, and yes, I'm aware of the screening arguments.

[AlanS]

Not that I'm closed-minded on the subject, and yes, I'm aware of the screening arguments.

You may be seen as closed minded by some, but I think you are better informed and leave less to the imagination having a working model of what is going on.

[Ali Tait]

Perhaps, but I don't consider myself so, I'm definately in the Subjectivist's camp when it comes to hi fi. I trust what my ears tell me.

Having said that, due to my training and also proclivities, I do like a technical reason why things do what or sound like they do.

[MartinT]

So kindly take the personal comments out about mocking and keep with the experience.

Alan, I was responding to your comment below, which was mocking. There was nothing personal implied or intended in my response and if you think there was, I apologise. Of course we all hear things differently, but there are a few of us with Power Plants now and we all use a high quality power cable for the input feed. The effect is really quite audible to us.


Will you be investing in a fancy mains cable like the P10 fans do?

[Yomanze]

Yep. Maybe at the next Scottish Mafia get together we can try some out.

From a professional point of view, I find it difficult to see how they make a difference. Most regulars here know I build high voltage substations for a living, and knowing the often torturous route the electrickery takes to get to your wall socket, often through miles of cable that may be 60 or more years old, it's hard to credit that the last meter can make such a difference.

Read this: http://www.psaudio.com/products/power/power-accessories/

"One of the first questions people typically ask us is why the last 6 feet of power cable matters when typically there are hundreds of feet of power delivery wires feeding the AC to the wall socket in the first place.

[...]

It is a common misconception that a piece of equipment is at the end of the power delivery chain when, in fact, it is actually in the middle of that chain. AC power has two conductors (ignoring the ground wire which is only for noise and safety) and power flows in a loop between the two conductors – your equipment sitting right in the middle of that loop. So the unit is not at the end of the chain, but rather in the middle and this is the area where the AC power is subjected to high levels of noise – and that noise can degrade the audio or video quality significantly.

The noise is actually generated by the equipment itself and for this reason, it is critically important that the last 6 feet of power delivery in the loop be extremely well shielded both internally (to the power cable) and externally (to the equipment)."

[AlanS]

Alan, I was responding to your comment below, which was mocking. There was nothing personal implied or intended in my response and if you think there was, I apologise. Of course we all hear things differently, but there are a few of us with Power Plants now and we all use a high quality power cable for the input feed. The effect is really quite audible to us.

Martin

Your enthusiasm for regeneration triggered my interest and resulted in getting something that made an immediate difference to my system. You will note I didn't go for PS audio as I thought it too expensive and found an affordable alternative to regenerated power, the goal.

If you think calling cables fancy is mocking you might be oversensitive. They are fancy, certainly not standard, having OTT plugs and hefty cables is fancy. I could give examples of mocking as opposed to using an unwelcomed description but you would be upset.

I see some P10 users are compelled to use hefty cables because you have.
But that means people have followed you and agreed with what you have done rather than discovered it for themselves cold. It doesn't prove anything to me.

Keep up the good work of advising your regeneration findings

[Gazjam]

Martin

Your enthusiasm for regeneration triggered my interest and resulted in getting something that made an immediate difference to my system. You will note I didn't go for PS audio as I thought it too expensive and found an affordable alternative to regenerated power, the goal.

If you think calling cables fancy is mocking you might be oversensitive. They are fancy, certainly not standard, having OTT plugs and hefty cables is fancy. I could give examples of mocking as opposed to using an unwelcomed description but you would be upset.

I see some P10 users are compelled to use hefty cables because you have.
But that means people have followed you and agreed with what you have done rather than discovered it for themselves cold. It doesn't prove anything to me.

Keep up the good work of advising your regeneration findings

Alan,
stop trying to wind people up...

to be more constructive...
I've heard different mains cables make a difference, Brian and I have built our own and heard differences using different materials.
Not night and day, but enough to prefer one over the other.

[AlanS]

Yep. Maybe at the next Scottish Mafia get together we can try some out.



Good to hear the outcome of that trial

[Gazjam]

Aye would be good to do that, Brian and I have been for a while.

[AlanS]

Alan,
stop trying to wind people up... ya dick. :)

to be more constructive...
I've heard different mains cables make a difference, Brian and I have built our own and heard differences using different materials.
Not night and day, but enough to prefer one over the other.

What can one say I am not trying to do any such thing as wind anyone up.

You seem to belong to the because I have done it everyone else can tribe. I don't doubt you and Brian have been through the process you describe. Why are you telling me this?

[Marco]

Gary, could you please remove the "ya dick" remark from your earlier post? That was uncalled for, mate. Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

[Gazjam]

Gary, could you please remove the "ya dick" remark from your earlier post? That was uncalled for, mate. Cheers! :cool:

Marco.
He must have missed the smiley...

ok Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Read this: http://www.psaudio.com/products/power/power-accessories/

"One of the first questions people typically ask us is why the last 6 feet of power cable matters when typically there are hundreds of feet of power delivery wires feeding the AC to the wall socket in the first place.

[...]

It is a common misconception that a piece of equipment is at the end of the power delivery chain when, in fact, it is actually in the middle of that chain. AC power has two conductors (ignoring the ground wire which is only for noise and safety) and power flows in a loop between the two conductors – your equipment sitting right in the middle of that loop. So the unit is not at the end of the chain, but rather in the middle and this is the area where the AC power is subjected to high levels of noise – and that noise can degrade the audio or video quality significantly.

The noise is actually generated by the equipment itself and for this reason, it is critically important that the last 6 feet of power delivery in the loop be extremely well shielded both internally (to the power cable) and externally (to the equipment)."

Ok, poor choice of words, but as I said, I'm aware of the noise implications, and I'm also aware of the theory of power transmission.

However I'd have thought the use of a good conditioner, regenerator or balanced power supply would negate these effects.

It also puzzles me why P10 users hear a difference depending on the mains cable used.

[Gazjam]

What can one say I am not trying to do any such thing as wind anyone up. I bet if I used ya dick I would get all sorts thrown at me.

You seem to belong to the because I have done it everyone else can tribe. I don't doubt you and Brian have been through the process you describe. Why are you telling me this? Other than to use ya dick in a post without moderation

You were having a pop at people on here (in particular).
Probably in jest, but a bit disingenuous imo.
Seemed like you were taking yourself very seriously.
Did you not see the smiley?

Just describing personal experience of having tried different mains cables and observed differences, which seemed to be the thrust of what was being discussed.

[AlanS]

You were having a pop at people on here (in particular).
Probably in jest, but a bit disingenuous imo.
Seemed like you were taking yourself very seriously.
Did you not see the smiley?

Just describing personal experience of having tried different mains cables and observed differences, which seemed to be the thrust of what was being discussed.


I've got nothing more to say to you.

Thanks for removing such offensive wording

[Gazjam]

I've got nothing more to say to you.

Thanks for removing such offensive wording

thanks.

[MartinT]

If you think calling cables fancy is mocking you might be oversensitive. They are fancy, certainly not standard, having OTT plugs and hefty cables is fancy. I could give examples of mocking as opposed to using an unwelcomed description but you would be upset.

I see some P10 users are compelled to use hefty cables because you have.
But that means people have followed you and agreed with what you have done rather than discovered it for themselves cold. It doesn't prove anything to me.

No problem, Alan, and I'm glad you've found a solution that suits you. I do try not to push my ideas to others and prefer to give experience-based advice whenever I can. I always advocate that people try for themselves to decide if that avenue is worth pursuing. I certainly don't want anyone buying an expensive power cable without trying it in their setup and I'm glad that you have done just that.

[twickers]

Without wanting to start a riot, which mains cables do you use when having the bake offs?

[MartinT]

often through miles of cable that may be 60 or more years old, it's hard to credit that the last meter can make such a difference.

I've heard that many times, Ali. The thing is, it's all low impedance including the ring mains that provides two paths to the socket. It's less about supplying the current needs (after all, many systems idle at less than 1A draw) and more about maintaining that low impedance. I've just measured a couple of 'kettle cables' and they show a few Ohms impedance. That's more than I'm comfortable with.

The Furukawa 2.6 cable supplied by Mark Grant that I use for the P10 feed has such a low impedance that my DVM can't measure it - it shows as a short circuit.

[losenotaminute]

Would transformer hum from my power amp be an indication that my mains supply is sub-optimal? NB I live in a block of flats in a fairly densely populated area. What would be the first thing to try in order to improve things as far as power supply is concerned:
Fuse / ring main
Power leads
4-way adaptor change
Balanced transformer
Regenerator
Mains conditioner

I currently have all the hifi plugged into a 4-way adaptor with surge protection, coming from one wall socket, with the pc stuff plugged into the other wall socket (it's a twin socket).

[Marco]

The Furukawa 2.6 cable supplied by Mark Grant that I use for the P10 feed has such a low impedance that my DVM can't measure it - it shows as a short circuit.

Interesting.....

I use the very same cable for powering my Copper amp, and the slightly (only ever so slightly thinner) version for powering the remainer of the components in my system. It's good to have some relevant measurements that confirm one's subjective listening experiences. Like you say, it's all about lowering impedance (and also reducing 'noise' on the mains supply) :)

Marco.

[Gazjam]

We've tried a few different cables...
Mark Grant's, Krystal Kable Titan's, Isotek, Brian's homebrew Furutech cable (expensive plug, cable and IEC) and the best of them all (in our opinion) was a DIY cable we based on the Rega mains lead, which I had bought.
Lapp cable, MK Safety Plugs (not the Toughplug, these have better internal connectors) and a Martin Kaiser IEC.

What was interesting to us was that we preferred the unplated versions, the silver didn't sound as good.
Again, not night and day better, but enough that you notice the improvement isn't there.

All that said, after our last bake off where Ali brought over his balanced transformer and I realised how bad my mains were...I wasn't exactly taking care of the fundamentals.

[chelsea]

Make sure you have OVERHEAD for load swings, peaks. 500 is best for sources only not amps. I have the 1500 without magic mains cables


What one do you use alan?

[twickers]

We've tried a few different cables...
Mark Grant's, Krystal Kable Titan's, Isotek, Brian's homebrew Furutech cable (expensive plug, cable and IEC) and the best of them all (in our opinion) was a DIY cable we based on the Rega mains lead, which I had bought.
Lapp cable, MK Safety Plugs (not the Toughplug, these have better internal connectors) and a Martin Kaiser IEC.

What was interesting to us was that we preferred the unplated versions, the silver didn't sound as good.
Again, not night and day better, but enough that you notice the improvement isn't there.

All that said, after our last bake off where Ali brought over his balanced transformer and I realised how bad my mains were...I wasn't exactly taking care of the fundamentals.

I used lapp cable to make some diy mains cables myself, and to rewire my mains block. Made a marked difference ( in my system).

[AlanS]

What one do you use alan?

Chelsea

I use an AG1500 with its supplied cable.

[chelsea]

Chelsea

I use an AG1500 with its supplied cable.


Ok thanks.
Did you try the 500?

[brian2957]

Hi Alan what have you got plugged into the AG1500 mate ?. I've got 30wpc valve amp ( 33% total power usage ) and a music server ( 6% ) . The only other things I plan to plug into the AG500 are a Virgin box and a Panasonic 37 inch plasma . Hopefully this will not take me over 75% total usage . Do you think 25% headroom will be enough ?

[AlanS]

Hi Alan what have you got plugged into the AG1500 mate ?. I've got 30wpc valve amp ( 33% total power usage ) and a music server ( 6% ) . The only other things I plan to plug into the AG500 are a Virgin box and a Panasonic 37 inch plasma . Hopefully this will not take me over 75% total usage . Do you think 25% headroom will be enough ?
Brian
You probably ok. Ive got 200w int amp, CD player, Phono amp, TT Headphone amp and soon DAC.

Enjoy it

[brian2957]

Thanks Alan I'm enjoying it as we speak . Tracy Chapman never sounded so good :D

[MartinT]

What was interesting to us was that we preferred the unplated versions, the silver didn't sound as good.

Agreed. Furukawa is pure OCC solid core copper and sounds better than a high end silver cable I tried.

[Ali Tait]

Hi Alan what have you got plugged into the AG1500 mate ?. I've got 30wpc valve amp ( 33% total power usage ) and a music server ( 6% ) . The only other things I plan to plug into the AG500 are a Virgin box and a Panasonic 37 inch plasma . Hopefully this will not take me over 75% total usage . Do you think 25% headroom will be enough ?

Plasma might be too much mate, they use a fair amount of current. Try it and see.

[Mark Grant]

It also puzzles me why P10 users hear a difference depending on the mains cable used.

Same here, looking at it from an electrical viewpoint if the mains has been properly regenerated what is incoming should not really matter, but people report differences so something is happening.

[Ali Tait]

I've heard that many times, Ali. The thing is, it's all low impedance including the ring mains that provides two paths to the socket. It's less about supplying the current needs (after all, many systems idle at less than 1A draw) and more about maintaining that low impedance. I've just measured a couple of 'kettle cables' and they show a few Ohms impedance. That's more than I'm comfortable with.

The Furukawa 2.6 cable supplied by Mark Grant that I use for the P10 feed has such a low impedance that my DVM can't measure it - it shows as a short circuit.

Yep, aware of all that, I'm pretty well versed in electrical stuff, I've been working in the industry for nearly 30 years. :)

What meter do you use to measure with? Unless it's a high quality RMS meter such as a Fluke, I'd not place too much stock in the accuracy of low level readings. Even the meter leads can have some impedance.

Even a generic IEC lead should have vanishingly low impedance I'd have thought.

[John]

It always seems to me experiences around regenerators and balanced power.... the effects of main cables is different for each user. It be good to get to grips with understanding why. In my case I found a positive effect with both balanced and regenerated mains when improving the cable but accept that someone else might have a different experience, as always trust your own ears with regards to this.

[twickers]

Maybe the forthcoming AOS show could have a mains room, where balanced mains units could slug it out with mains regenerators. It would certainly be interesting.

[John]

Nice idea Paul

[Marco]

Maybe the forthcoming AOS show could have a mains room, where balanced mains units could slug it out with mains regenerators. It would certainly be interesting.

I like it! :)

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Aye, good idea.

[twickers]

Probably need security on the door mind, in case alans tries to strangle martint with a furukawa mains cable :lol:

[Ali Tait]

:D

[Barry]

Maybe the forthcoming AOS show could have a mains room, where balanced mains units could slug it out with mains regenerators. It would certainly be interesting.

Excellent idea Paul!

As an 'open minded' sceptic (is that an oxymoron?), I would be very interested in a demo of mains cables and conditioners/regenerators.

[chelsea]

Chelsea

I use an AG1500 with its supplied cable.

Cheers.

Thinking of giving the 500 a try.

[brian2957]

What are you going to be hooking up to it Stu .?

[Mark Grant]

Probably need security on the door mind, in case alans tries to strangle martint with a furukawa mains cable :lol:

:D They are so stiff they cant be tied in Knots, Supra lorad would be more flexible for a noose.

[chelsea]

Garrard 301 and puresound 2A3 amp.
I don't bother with fancy cables anywhere in my system so there is no problem there.

[brian2957]

I have a dared I30 valve amp ( 30wpc ) with a built in DAC and a music server / computer hooked up to mine at the moment and they're drawing 40% of available power . There's a little lcd on the front PANEL which gives the user this information . I just got my AG500 the other day and I'll be trying a few other things plugged into it i.e Virgin box and 37 inch plasma TV.

[MCRU]

I have a dared I30 valve amp ( 30wpc ) with a built in DAC and a music server / computer hooked up to mine at the moment and they're drawing 40% of available power . There's a little lcd on the front PANEL which gives the user this information . I just got my AG500 the other day and I'll be trying a few other things plugged into it i.e Virgin box and 37 inch plasma TV.

Don't forget to plug the kettle into it Brian, not only does it make the water boil faster the tea tastes better :lol:

[brian2957]

My kettle doesn't have a kettle lead on it mate so don't be silly :ner: Behave yersel man (:

[chelsea]

Hopefully the 500 will be enough then.

[MartinT]

What meter do you use to measure with? Unless it's a high quality RMS meter such as a Fluke, I'd not place too much stock in the accuracy of low level readings. Even the meter leads can have some impedance.

I have two (a Mastech and a Precision Gold) and all I can do is measure them against each other and against 1% resistors. They are good enough for my quick tests and they are spot on in giving the same measurements as each other. I used to have a Fluke when I was an engineer but sadly had to hand it back :(

[AlanS]

Garrard 301 and puresound 2A3 amp.
I don't bother with fancy cables anywhere in my system so there is no problem there.

fancy cables - term invokes strong feelings on AoS

[Mark Grant]

Hi Alan what have you got plugged into the AG1500 mate ?. I've got 30wpc valve amp ( 33% total power usage ) and a music server ( 6% ) . The only other things I plan to plug into the AG500 are a Virgin box and a Panasonic 37 inch plasma . Hopefully this will not take me over 75% total usage . Do you think 25% headroom will be enough ?

The 37" plasma will draw 130 to 190 watts depending on the brightness and contrast etc so might be too much. ( best to measure it)

Also the PC, Virgin box and plasma will all have noisy switch mode power supplies so by plugging them all into the clean mains you are sharing the noise with you amplifier, unless the regenerator has lots of sockets that are all isolated from each other.

What you want is four AG500's in your rack :) ;)

[Ali Tait]

Or run a Belkin from one.

[brian2957]

Thanks Mark . If I had 4 AG500s stacked I wouldn't have a rack . Probably wouldn't have a floor :lol: . So you are saying that even though I've only used 40% of the power available from the AG500 the plasma may still be too much of a load . I'm afraid I have no technical knowledge here so I don't know how to measure the plasma .
I use a Belkin block for the TV and Virgin box . Should I just leave it that way ?

[losenotaminute]

Thanks Mark . If I had 4 AG500s stacked I wouldn't have a rack . Probably wouldn't have a floor :lol: . So you are saying that even though I've only used 40% of the power available from the AG500 the plasma may still be too much of a load .

Some of the older plasma TVs can draw more than 200 watts, if memory serves they can be over 300....

[brian2957]

Thank Lawrence , the TV is fairly new.

[Ali Tait]

Just plug th plasma in on it's own and see what it draws.

[brian2957]

Thanks mate , I'll try that tomorrow .

[Mark Grant]

Some of the older plasma TVs can draw more than 200 watts, if memory serves they can be over 300....

Although it is a 37" Panasonic so probably one of these:

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/TX-P37X20B/Specification/3507343/index.html?trackInfo=true 115 to 190 watts apparently.

Discontinued now I think but lovely 37" TV's especially with freeview HD or freesat HD from a separate box such as a Humax etc.

we have one and I cant really measure it as is wired in to a fused spur and not easy to get to.

[Marco]

:D They are so stiff they cant be tied in Knots, Supra lorad would be more flexible for a noose.

Indeed, they're stiffer than a donkey's stiffy on steroids! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[brian2957]

Although it is a 37" Panasonic so probably one of these:

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/TX-P37X20B/Specification/3507343/index.html?trackInfo=true 115 to 190 watts apparently.

Discontinued now I think but lovely 37" TV's especially with freeview HD or freesat HD from a separate box such as a Humax etc.

we have one and I cant really measure it as is wired in to a fused spur and not easy to get to.

That looks like the one Mark . I'll decide what to do tomorrow. Either plug it in itself first or leave as is plugged into the Belkin . Thanks for the help chaps.

[Mark Grant]

Thanks Mark . If I had 4 AG500s stacked I wouldn't have a rack . Probably wouldn't have a floor :lol: . So you are saying that even though I've only used 40% of the power available from the AG500 the plasma may still be too much of a load .

Not sure without knowing how many watts drawn, probably OK.


I'm afraid I have no technical knowledge here so I don't know how to measure the plasma .
I use a Belkin block for the TV and Virgin box . Should I just leave it that way ?

No technical knowledge needed, buy a meter such as this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Energenie-ENERGY-SAVING-POWER-METER-SAVE-MONEY-/221168627440?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement _Equipment_ET&hash=item337ead6ef0
and plug each device in and write down the watts for each device, as Ali says, measure it :)

If you have a Belkin mains block with filter you could try that in one of the outputs on the AG500 and plug noisy devices into that and the power amp direct into one of the outputs on the AG500.
Looks like you need some male IEC connectors for the sockets on the back of the AG500.

http://upsmart.co.uk/images/ag500-rear.jpg

No way of knowing which sound best without trying it.

[brian2957]

Thanks Mark loads of suggestions to try tomorrow . I'll get back some time tomorrow with my findings.:)

[jandl100]

Going back to the mains cable thing -- :sorry: -- I'm a reluctant believer.
I've been doing a lot of experiments over the last few months, and choice of mains cabling is critical - it changes a good system to a great one, imho.

Surprisingly, Nordost Magus mains cables are what my system thrives on, including the lead to my AG1500 regenerator. There's a rich, in-the-room vibrancy to the midrange that simply isn't there with any other cable I have tried. I have to sacrifice a little in the way of bass depth and power, but that's a sacrifice I am very happy to make.
Oh and the one exception is my Krell KAV250a power amp which absolutely insists on being fed with a MusicWorks power cable, that coming direct from the wall not the regenerator.
Crazy stuff. :mental:

Very system and equipment and taste dependent, I am sure, but that's my experience. :)

[Clive]

I'm sort of a frustrated believer in mains cables in that really wish they wouldn't make a difference.

Mind you some can be rubbish. I'm trying a Metrum Otave mkII DAC currently, it repsonds to main cable. One I tried was a Nordost which isn't sold any more, I think I know why, it sounded terrible, bleached. The DAC is fine with a very hefty Bastanis cable and my home made plaited cable.

Re the AG500, I believe the fan on this model is fixed speed. Can anyone say how noisy it is? I realise it's hard to describe. Is it less than a laptop with the fan full on? I see the 1500 has 2 fans and the 500 one fan so I expect this is why the 500 doesn't need variable fan speed.

[AlanS]

I'm trying a Metrum Otave mkII DAC currently, it repsonds to main cable. One I tried was a Nordost which isn't sold any more, I think I know why, it sounded terrible, bleached. The DAC is fine with a very hefty Bastanis cable and my home made plaited cable.



Did you ever hear the Mk I Octave, now finished, and compare the two. The Mk II is a lot higher at ~ £900 isn't it. The NOS design intrigues me.

[Clive]

Did you ever hear the Mk I Octave, now finished, and compare the two. The Mk II is a lot higher at ~ £900 isn't it. The NOS design intrigues me.
I never got to hear the mkI...the mkII has a USB option and plays 192kHz files, both are things I need. The other main change is a deeper input buffer making it less transport sensitive. Yes the price is up but from what I can tell the price was an huge bargain and a direct selling model. It looks like Metrum have some dealer in tow now.

Sorry this is OT.

[brian2957]

I'm sort of a frustrated believer in mains cables in that really wish they wouldn't make a difference.

Mind you some can be rubbish. I'm trying a Metrum Otave mkII DAC currently, it repsonds to main cable. One I tried was a Nordost which isn't sold any more, I think I know why, it sounded terrible, bleached. The DAC is fine with a very hefty Bastanis cable and my home made plaited cable.

Re the AG500, I believe the fan on this model is fixed speed. Can anyone say how noisy it is? I realise it's hard to describe. Is it less than a laptop with the fan full on? I see the 1500 has 2 fans and the 500 one fan so I expect this is why the 500 doesn't need variable fan speed.
Hi Clive , I'm sitting in front of my AG500 just now. It's approximately 6-7 feet away from me and all I can hear is a virtually inaudible low level hum . I would say that it's much quieter than a laptop or a PC . When I'm playing music it's totally inaudible . I realise that other peoples hearing may be more sensitive than mine but I feel I can safely recommend this unit on the basis of how quiete it is.

[Clive]

Hi Clive , I'm sitting in front of my AG500 just now. It's approximately 6-7 feet away from me and all I can hear is a virtually inaudible low level hum . I would say that it's much quieter than a laptop or a PC . When I'm playing music it's totally inaudible . I realise that other peoples hearing may be more sensitive than mine but I feel I can safely recommend this unit on the basis of how quiete it is.
Thanks Brian, that sounds ok.

[MartinT]

One I tried was a Nordost which isn't sold any more, I think I know why, it sounded terrible, bleached

It wasn't a Nordost El Dorado, was it? Awful cable, I fell for the dealer's bollo and got rid of it quickly.

[Clive]

It wasn't a Nordost El Dorado, was it? Awful cable, I fell for the dealer's bollo and got rid of it quickly.
Yes, I have 2 of them. I was given them. At least I can use the IEC and mains plug.

[brian2957]

Well having had the AG500 for a week or so now here are my initial impressions . Firstly I have to point out that this is quite a large and heavy piece of gear , measuring 440mm x 440mm x 90mm . In operation it is very quiete ( to my ears anyway :wheniwasaboy: ) , it's in my rack approximately 6 feet away and all I can hear is a virtually inaudible low level hum .
As the AG500 is £200 cheaper than the AG 1500 I thought I would dip my toe in the water with a view to upgrading to the AG1500 if need be. The AG500 has a handy little LCD readout which can tell me individual unit load as a percentage of total power available . So here are the figures for my system when I tried each unit plugged in seperately .

dared I30 30wpc valve amp with built in DAC = 33% load
Music server / computer = 6% load
Panasonic plasma TV = 24% load
Virgin media box = 5% load

Giving a total of 68% load which gives me loads of headroom ( I think )

So how does it sound in my system ? There are improvements in all areas IMHO . The noise floor appears to have dropped significantly allowing me to hear further into the music and also to hear new details on favourite tracks. Bass , which I was already pretty happy with , is cleaner and more musical , but not deeper , in my system . Soundstage has become slightly bigger but the music is coming further into the room giving that ' in the room , feeling . Voices and instruments , particularly drums , have taken on a more lifelike , natural , feel and the system has become more musical than it was before . My system now sounds smoother than a very smooth thing without any loss of dynamics, not fatiguing at all , and I can listen for hours .
A tumble dryer which caused havoc with music replay seems to be no longer a problem . So all in all this has been a very positive purchase for me . I hope this is helpful to anyone considering buying an AG500 . If I can help any further please feel free to ask . Advice or constructive comments also welcomed.

[MartinT]

So how does it sound in my system ?

:popcorn:

[jandl100]

Wot a tease! :lol:

[brian2957]

Wasn't teasing mate . I already typed this off in its entirety this morning ( 40 mins as I'm not the quickest ) and lost the lot when I tried to post it :steam:
So decided to do it piecemeal this time :lol:
Think I'll start posting on the grumpy old git thread.(:

[MartinT]

My system now sounds smoother than a very smooth thing without any loss of dynamics, not fatiguing at all , and I can listen for hours .

That's great news, Brian. Regenerators really do open up a system's capabilities. Another happy regen user!

[brian2957]

You betcha Martin . The regenerator provides improvements which I believe cannot be achieved by any other means , although I still have to try the balanced unit in my system . Well pleased with this though :D
Incidentally , now that I've found my tin hat and I'm suitably positioned behind the sofa , I have to say that I've had similar results to you and Jerry regarding mains cables . I've tried 4 different mains cable to feed this unit and they all sound audibly different . My favourite at the moment ( although the stock cable sounds pretty good ) is the Isotek EVO3 Premier cable .
Can I come out yet ? (: (:

[AlanS]

Well having had the AG500 for a week or so now here are my initial impressions . Firstly I have to point out that this is quite a large and heavy piece of gear , measuring 440mm x 440mm x 90mm . In operation it is very quiete ( to my ears anyway :wheniwasaboy: ) , it's in my rack approximately 6 feet away and all I can hear is a virtually inaudible low level hum .
As the AG500 is £200 cheaper than the AG 1500 I thought I would dip my toe in the water with a view to upgrading to the AG1500 if need be. The AG500 has a handy little LCD readout which can tell me individual unit load as a percentage of total power available . So here are the figures for my system when I tried each unit plugged in seperately .

dared I30 30wpc valve amp with built in DAC = 33% load
Music server / computer = 6% load
Panasonic plasma TV = 24% load
Virgin media box = 5% load

Giving a total of 68% load which gives me loads of headroom ( I think )

So how does it sound in my system ? There are improvements in all areas IMHO . The noise floor appears to have dropped significantly allowing me to hear further into the music and also to hear new details on favourite tracks. Bass , which I was already pretty happy with , is cleaner and more musical , but not deeper , in my system . Soundstage has become slightly bigger but the music is coming further into the room giving that ' in the room , feeling . Voices and instruments , particularly drums , have taken on a more lifelike , natural , feel and the system has become more musical than it was before . My system now sounds smoother than a very smooth thing without any loss of dynamics, not fatiguing at all , and I can listen for hours .
A tumble dryer which caused havoc with music replay seems to be no longer a problem . So all in all this has been a very positive purchase for me . I hope this is helpful to anyone considering buying an AG500 . If I can help any further please feel free to ask . Advice or constructive comments also welcomed.


Brian

Glad you discovered what I found and thanks for putting your sound experience into words I could never bring together. I just know that PI AG is excellent for my system and when I read how amazing this or that mains device is I just compare and wonder what those who enthuse about other things would make of a comparison.

I'm a very happy bunny too.

[brian2957]

Thanks Alan . To be honest with you I was contemplating buying one of these and when I heard Alis balanced PSU at Garys place my mind was made up . This is a keeper mate :D

[MartinT]

I've tried 4 different mains cable to feed this unit and they all sound audibly different . My favourite at the moment ( although the stock cable sounds pretty good ) is the Isotek EVO3 Premier cable .

I had a hunch that the AG series would be just as critical of input power cable as the PS Audio products. As I've said many times already, the whole system's juice flows through that one cable, transient spikes, surges in demand, noise and all. The lower the impedance that cable is, the more 'coupled' the regenerator will be to low impedance mains and the better it can do its job.

[AlanS]

I'd like to throw something else into the possibilities. PI also have battery packs for the AG1500 and I guess AG500, they are UPS's. I was sent one in compensation for a fluff up on my order. It has never come out of the box.

BUT if one had one connected it would alter the way the AG works. Currently mains just goes straight through the single box. If a battery pack was there I think mains goes via the battery circuits also so it is mainly mains and a bit battery.

I never opened the box let alone add it to my system but if anyone else would like it to play with it they are welcome to it FOC. All I ask is that you collect it (South Birmingham) rather than expect me to send it to you.

As an aside I'm having a new electric meter fitted Tuesday next week does anyones experience suggest I might then hear differences between mains cables like what you, Martin and others do. I hope not

[twickers]

Thanks for posting Brian. It's nice to now the more moderately priced units can do the biz.

[MartinT]

I'm having a new electric meter fitted Tuesday next week does anyones experience suggest I might then hear differences between mains cables like what you, Martin and others do. I hope not

I don't know about meters, Alan, but the consumer unit can make a big difference if it's old fashioned fuses rather than circuit breakers.

[AlanS]

I don't know about meters, Alan, but the consumer unit can make a big difference if it's old fashioned fuses rather than circuit breakers.

Just the meter, legal requirement not the CU. I wonder if the surface contact area of a CB is smaller or larger than the effective contact area/cross section of fuse wire making it very different.

[brian2957]

I had a new consumer unit fitted a couple of months ago and it made an audible difference to my system.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23860&highlight=fuse+box

[Gazjam]

Great write up Brian about your experiences.
Its good when a plan comes together innit? :)

Taking a rain check on my own balanced transformer for now, but its next on the list.
Be good to compare the AG500 with the Airlink, mains regeneration vs balanced power, in both our systems.
Seems to be a lot of discussion on the forums, should be interesting.

[brian2957]

Yup , no doubt we'll get round to that comparison mate .

[brian2957]

Took the AG500 to Garys place the other day . Although we didn't have a balanced PSU to compare it with , we did have one in Garys system a couple of weeks ago . So very much relying on aural memory . From the outset it was abundantly clear that both these technologies produce very different results . The AG500 is laid back by comparison and through a drop in the noise floor lets the listener hear improved , but not deeper ,bass and also further into the mix . We could hear more of what was already present on the tracks .Barely audible instruments and singers were much more audible and further forward in the mix . The improvements were more subtle than the balanced PSU but nevertheless there for all to hear . As previously stated , a very worthwhile set of improvements. The balanced PSU on the other hand seemed to major in improvements in dynamics and detail . Giving the impression of a much livelier performance . The music seemed to move along at a much faster pace . Very impressive indeed , but very different to the AG500 . So two very different sets of results , however I can't help thinking that used together this may be a formidable combination . We hope to have both units in the same room in the very near future so watch this space. :)
Edit : As in my system different mains input cables had a subtle but audible affect on SQ in Garys system . Although the stock cable provided with the G500 proved to be very good indeed and perfectly adequate . If I didn't have these mains cables to play about with I would still have been very happy with the results using the AG500.

[jandl100]

Oh poo - I had been dilly-dallying about getting a balanced power supply, but you've pushed me over the brink, Brian!
I've now ordered one of these (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS1500.html).

T'will be interesting comparing it to my AG1500 and trying them in combo. :)

[brian2957]

HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAA :lol:

Cheers Jerry , that's the ony Gary will be buying soon :lol:
Looking forward to your findings mate . This may backfire on me and I'll have to buy one too (-:

[Mark Grant]

So two very different sets of results
Always the cas isnt it :)


however I can't help thinking that used together this may be a formidable combination . We hope to have both units in the same room in the very near future so watch this space. :)

I was thinking to try the regenerator to feed the balanced isolation transformer so that the transformer removes any electrical noise that is on the regenerator outputs.

Any comments on fan noise on these things?
I cant stand fan noise here, has to be silent.

[brian2957]

The AG500 isn't silent Mark and has no fan speed adjustment , but it is not noisy either and doesn't bother me in the slightest . I haven't heard the AG1500 but I believe the fan speed is adjustable . Maybe Jerry can help here as he has an AG1500 .

[wee tee cee]

Oh poo - I had been dilly-dallying about getting a balanced power supply, but you've pushed me over the brink, Brian!
I've now ordered one of these (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS1500.html).

T'will be interesting comparing it to my AG1500 and trying them in combo. :)thats the one i bought after hearing alis.does what is says on the tin......listening to cans really brought home the improvements.

[jandl100]

Any comments on fan noise on these things?
I cant stand fan noise here, has to be silent.

Yep, the fan on the AG1500 is adjustable - I just set it to minimum and leave it there. The case barely gets warm no matter how loud the music gets!

Fan noise - I cannot stand fan noise :steam: - the AG1500 isn't dead silent, but it bothers me not at all, very quiet indeed. I'd be surprised if anyone objected to it.

Initially, I ruled out the AG1500 because I knew it had a fan, then heard it round at a friend's place - and ordered one the next day! It really is very quiet.

[Gazjam]

Brian and I got together and heard the regenerator in both our systems Monday.

Definitely improves the system, though in a different way from what we heard with the balanced mains in my system.

First up Brian's system.
Doing a direct comparison between the sound regenerator in vs out:
Noise floor has dropped just like the balanced mains, and cos of that you seem to be hearing more of what was already there. Nothing added, just what was there brought to the fore more.

Exactly the same result in my system, though having heard balanced mains in mine I can make a direct comparison.
(Will revisit it when I get my own Airlink power supply though, watch this space)

The two mains improvement systems seem to do different things.

Regenerator lowers noise floor, but the improvements are more subtle than balanced mains. You can hear better detail and the soundstage is a lot more solid, though not any bigger or deeper.
Balanced mains was far more of a dramatic improvement, we all heard what it did.
What I liked about it was that it wasn't like turning everything up to 11 to hear everything better, louder, faster, but the background mush and noise vanished SO MUCH it changed your perception of how good the music was you were listening to.

The Ag500 didn't do this in my system.
Improvements, oh yes...but more subtle, I'd simplify it to say that regenerating the mains with this unit is (significantly) less effective than balancing the mains.
I say "this unit" as maybe a different unit might do things differently, dunno.

Something that was a bit of a surprise was that changing mains leads to the regen unit affected the sound?
(Yes, seriously)
If mains was being regenerated, the AC in is surely being "recreated" and the output would be the same regardless of what mains cable you use?
MartinT on AOS owns an Isotek and he says different mains cables make the unit sound different, so who knows what is going on. :)

The AG500 unit was also (to me) a bit too noisy for my ears.
Think a quiet-ish PC running in the background due to cooling fans.
Also there was an electrical "squelching" sound that varied according to what you were doing on the server: scrolling up and down, opening files etc.

All this was audible from the listening position with no music playing, about 6 feet away.
You can't hear it with music playing really, but what's the point of having a box to reduce mains noise and lower noise floor If it adds a layer of background noise of its own?

No disrespect to its fans (excuse the pun), but it wouldn't be my choice, balanced mains all the way for me.
Suppose a potential source of noise could be DC on the line or transformer hum?
There's ways round that though I think, Dc blocker or something?

As I said earlier, when I get my own balanced power supply in we will do a direct comparison, but the improvement with balanced mains was so obvious that I would have been reminded of it had the same thing happened with Brians AG500.
Improvements yes, but more subtle.

Definitely an improvement though, and for the £250 Brian spent a cracking buy.

[Gazjam]

Just to throw another spanner in the works...
where should I put my Belkin PF30 conditioner with a balanced transformer? :)

[Chops]

Just to throw another spanner in the works...
where should I put my Belkin PF30 conditioner with a balanced transformer? :)

I plug mine into the balanced supply and plug the low power usage items into it. Power amp still plugged into the wall socket which are fed balanced supply. Works a treat as I think it's isolating a device with a SMPS. The lights on the front don't work correctly because of the balanced feed but I just ignore them.

Chris

[Ali Tait]

Don't try to feed the bps from the belkin Gaz, it can't supply enough power from one socket.

[MartinT]

If mains was being regenerated, the AC in is surely being "recreated" and the output would be the same regardless of what mains cable you use?
MartinT on AOS owns an Isotek and he says different mains cables make the unit sound different, so who knows what is going on. :)

Not an Isotek, Gaz - a PS Audio P10.

It's true - the input cable makes a big difference and it's worth listening to a few to select the best cable for your model regenerator.

[jandl100]

Yep, the AG1500 is the same in its dependence on the input mains cable! The right choice for you and your system can change good into special.

[Gazjam]

Not an Isotek, Gaz - a PS Audio P10.

It's true - the input cable makes a big difference and it's worth listening to a few to select the best cable for your model regenerator.

Sorry Martin! :)
Yeah, worth trying to see what sounds best for sure.

Depending on how it all sounds when it's in place, thinking the Belkin good for plugging the TiVo box, and router...basically anything with a switching supply.

Just need to get the thinking cap on about a sensible good DIY mains block and Im done.

[Ali Tait]

Just buy one at a reasonable price and rewire it with some decent cable. Should do the trick.

[Yomanze]

Guys, you do realise that balanced mains can cause lethal fault currents to appear across neutral if something blows in the 'wrong' way?

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov06/articles/crosstalk_1106.htm
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?59348-Balanced-mains-transformer&p=1072905&viewfull=1#post1072905

[Clive]

Guys, you do realise that balanced mains can cause lethal fault currents to appear across neutral if something blows in the 'wrong' way?

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov06/articles/crosstalk_1106.htm
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?59348-Balanced-mains-transformer&p=1072905&viewfull=1#post1072905
It doesn't look like a good idea to used balanced......one isolation transformer per hi-fi component would seem a much safer approach.

[Gazjam]

What if the secondary power leg is protected too though?

On my own balanced mains I will have an MCB on the input and and 16a RCBO on the output.
Primary and secondary protected..

[Ali Tait]

Guys, you do realise that balanced mains can cause lethal fault currents to appear across neutral if something blows in the 'wrong' way?

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov06/articles/crosstalk_1106.htm
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?59348-Balanced-mains-transformer&p=1072905&viewfull=1#post1072905

We've been through this several times already. As long as double pole protection is used on primary and secondaries, it's perfectly safe to use. I used a double pole MCB on the primary, and a double pole RCBO on the secondaries. I'm happy this is safe in use. Center tap on the secondaries is taken to earth, so a fault in either leg will trip both.

[Yomanze]

We've been through this several times already. As long as double pole protection is used on primary and secondaries, it's perfectly safe to use. I used a double pole MCB on the primary, and a double pole RCBO on the secondaries. I'm happy this is safe in use. Center tap on the secondaries is taken to earth, so a fault in either leg will trip both.

OK, but the one that Jerry's ordered (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS1500.html) doesn't seem to have this protection? I think it's important to point out that some of these will be potentially dangerous.

Where did you guys get yours from (Ali & Gaz)?

[Ali Tait]

The potential problems arise with single fusing in the traditional manner i.e. only the live is protected. As long as both live and neutral are protected, balanced power is safe to use. Only caveat is keep balanced powered equipment well away from non balanced powered, as a potential difference could occur in a fault condition. I'm being picky, but I like belt and braces when it comes to electrical safety.

[Ali Tait]

OK, but the one that Jerry's ordered (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS1500.html) doesn't seem to have this protection? I think it's important to point out that some of these will be potentially dangerous.

Where did you guys get yours from (Ali & Gaz)?

I built my own. Gary bought his from Airlink, and has them fitting appropriate protection on my advice. Gary's will be as safe as mine. No doubt Jerry will read this and other threads and decide for himself what he wants to do.

[Ali Tait]

It doesn't look like a good idea to used balanced......one isolation transformer per hi-fi component would seem a much safer approach.


I agree isolation power is inherently safe, only problem is you can only power one bit of kit from each transformer, so you'd need as many transformers as you have bits of kit. Would get expensive!

[Gazjam]

That's exactly what I got Airlink Transformers to fit in mine Ali.
Only a few quid extra to swap out RCD for an RCBO on the Output.

Happy with that.

[Clive]

I agree isolation power is inherently safe, only problem is you can only power one bit of kit from each transformer, so you'd need as many transformers as you have bits of kit. Would get expensive!
With the correct protection it seems balanced is fine. I hope everyone going balanced takes safely seriously.

[Ali Tait]

Aye, me too Clive, I have posted a out this several times. Perhaps a sticky would be pertinant.

[Clive]

Aye, me too Clive, I have posted a out this several times. Perhaps a sticky would be pertinant.
Good idea! With so many pages to read through it can go unnoticed.

[Ali Tait]

Yes indeed, this thread is a good example.

[John]

http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13851
We have this as a sticky

[Gazjam]

OK, but the one that Jerry's ordered (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS1500.html) doesn't seem to have this protection? I think it's important to point out that some of these will be potentially dangerous.

Where did you guys get yours from (Ali & Gaz)?

I am getting THIS one:
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS2020.html
with additional protection of Double Pole MCB on input and 2P RCBO on output.
If Ali's happy with this I'm happy. Job done. :)

[Ali Tait]

http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13851
We have this as a sticky

A start, but I think one dedicated to balanced power supplies would be better.

[John]

Pm sent

[Ali Tait]

Replied.:)

[jandl100]

Fook.
You mean the one I bought isn't safe?
Jeez. Fooking forums. :doh:

[wee tee cee]

Fook.
You mean the one I bought isn't safe?
Jeez. Fooking forums. :doh:jerry,

how are you getting on with it.....i have been very pleased with the improvement it made in my set up.

[jandl100]

Arrived today. Plugged it in. Read the recent posts on this thread :mad: - and unplugged it again! :(

[Audioman]

Arrived today. Plugged it in. Read the recent posts on this thread :mad: - and unplugged it again! :(

Having read all the advice here and on the Wam a very wise move. The most worrying thing is use of balanced mains devices could invalidate insurance and there is no protection for your cables as both pos and neg become live.

[Ali Tait]

A little perspective perhaps. It would only be a problem if a fault developed on your system Jerry. I have posted what I have because I could not live with myself if someone was hurt because I neglected to inform of what MAY happen in the event of something going wrong. The transformer I am using was used by it's previous owner with no protection at all except for the fuse in the plug supplying it and the breaker in the CU, for three years with no problem.

People could accuse me of scaremongering I guess, given I play with valve amps that can have very high voltages inside, which is why I always ensure the chassis is properly earthed, in which case it's going to be safe in the event of a fault.

It's a similar story at work, I often get lads moaning about doing the earthing in a substation, as it can be a monotonous job, until I remind them that it is in fact the most important job on the site.

So, while I may appear to be going over the top at times, it's mainly because in the twenty five years I have been working in sub stations, I have been to seven funerals of colleagues that were killed at work. It's easy to say that it's "only" 240 or 120 volts, but the fact is, under the right conditions it WILL kill you. A few milliamps is enough to stop the heart.

[Ali Tait]

Having read all the advice here and on the Wam a very wise move. The most worrying thing is use of balanced mains devices could invalidate insurance and there is no protection for your cables as both pos and neg become live.

Sorry, don't understand, can you explain?

[Gazjam]

another thing to remember is that a (apparently) lots of recording studios fit balanced mains systems to reduce noisefloor, mains noise etc.

[Ali Tait]

Yep, tis also why they use balanced cabling, to reject noise.

[jandl100]

Ah well - I'll put it down to experience and sell it on fleaBay as a barely used Minter.

[Yomanze]

Proper recording studios also use a technical earth, so all units are bonded. Connecting balanced mains to a couple of components is an entirely different matter. I am not an electrical engineer, but notice a lot of good EEs going nuts about the prospect of putting units available online into your system. Having said this am interested in Ali & Gaz's setup as it looks to be properly sorted.

I think a dedicated balanced mains sticky would be beneficial too.

[Yomanze]

Ah well - I'll put it down to experience and sell it on fleaBay as a barely used Minter.

Surely you can just return it?

[Gazjam]

Proper recording studios also use a technical earth, so all units are bonded. Connecting balanced mains to a couple of components is an entirely different matter. I am not an electrical engineer, but notice a lot of good EEs going nuts about the prospect of putting units available online into your system. Having said this am interested in Ali & Gaz's setup as it looks to be properly sorted.

I think a dedicated balanced mains sticky would be beneficial too.

Ali is an EE mate, so I felt confident taking his advice.
Prior to purchase I also spoke at length with the Guy at Airlink Transformers about my concerns, which were all the scenarios we speak of here.
He knew exactly what the problem might be and suggested a solution, which was exactly how Ali has his balanced mains set up.

Trust me, I wouldn't have given it houseroom if it was in anyway unsafe, no matter how good it sounded.

I'm not an EE either btw, so I read a lot online and spoke to folk who knew how it all works.
Seemed sensible.

[jandl100]

Airlink say they don't take returns - but I guess Distance Selling laws should apply and I have a right to return it. I can see them making a fuss about it, though.

[jandl100]

Prior to purchase I also spoke at length with the Guy at Airlink Transformers about my concerns, which were all the scenarios we speak of here.
He knew exactly what the problem might be and suggested a solution, which was exactly how Ali has his balanced mains set up.


Hmm. I did rather like what the balanced doohickey did to the sound in the short while I had it running - perhaps I should return it to Airlink and get them to mod it for me?

[wee tee cee]

Ah well - I'll put it down to experience and sell it on fleaBay as a barely used Minter. why not just plumb the device in for an hour (fire extinguisher/blanket/bucket of sand at hand) and give it a listen....mine has been on for two weeks without immolating my family!
I find it hard to believe Airlink would sell something unsafe with the accreditation they have boldly displayed on they're site. It has made a significant Improvement to my set up......I hear 30s of transmission hum on starting it up then silence.
You're assessment of what it does OR does not would be valued.

[Thing Fish]

I find it hard to believe Airlink would sell something unsafe with the accreditation they have boldly displayed on they're site.

This thought occured to me also?

[jandl100]

Not if it's being used for a purpose it wasn't designed or intended for ...?

[HoraceW]

Under the DSR you have 7 days from placing the order to return if you change your mind with no need for you to give them any reason. All you have to do is tell them inside the 7 days and then you have 21 days to return the item and they have to refund within 30 days. Airlink can be as difficult as they like but there is no way around the law as it stands and they have to comply.

Hugh

[jandl100]

DSR: I think it's 7 days from receipt of goods? - anyway, I'd rather return it and they made it safe and sent it back to me. :)

[jandl100]

why not just plumb the device in for an hour (fire extinguisher/blanket/bucket of sand at hand) and give it a listen......You're assessment of what it does OR does not would be valued.

Well, I did use it for a short while. So some comparisons with the AG1500 -->

I'm using a passive pre at the moment, so it didn't make much diff there. :eyebrows:

On my CDP, a definite improvement in imaging (more solid, rounded, nuanced - the AG1500 is good at imaging, the balanced PS is better, though) and dynamics (bolder/wider/ more subtle dynamic shading).

On my high power Krell power amp it was a disaster, and lost a whole level of detail resolution. Not good.

So I'd like to use the balanced PS doohickey for my CDP and perhaps future active pre-amps.

I haven't (yet) tried it in combo with the AG1500.

[HoraceW]

DSR: I think it's 7 days from receipt of goods?

That is where you have to be careful about the 7 days as I think it is actually 7 working days from placing the order.

Edit: just had a read up on some of the DSR regs and you may well be right about the 7 days from receipt although could do with some input from someone experienced in these regs. Also does not apply if the item is custom ordered.

Edit again: I stand corrected as I have mixed up my "goods" and "services" and it is indeed 7 days from receipt for goods (the 7 days from order only applies to supply of services).

Anyway all the best with the item whatever happens

Hugh

[Ali Tait]

I'd have a word and seeing about getting it modded Jerry. Which one did you get?

[wee tee cee]

Well, I did use it for a short while. So some comparisons with the AG1500 -->

I'm using a passive pre at the moment, so it didn't make much diff there. :eyebrows:

On my CDP, a definite improvement in imaging (more solid, rounded, nuanced - the AG1500 is good at imaging, the balanced PS is better, though) and dynamics (bolder/wider/ more subtle dynamic shading).

On my high power Krell power amp it was a disaster, and lost a whole level of detail resolution. Not good.

So I'd like to use the balanced PS doohickey for my CDP and perhaps future active pre-amps.

I haven't (yet) tried it in combo with the AG1500.Interesting....I use it with an active pre and dac, my bantum is battery powered
the Improvement is not insignificant......my pre also serves as a head amp for my head phone set up.
Your sonic findings have Bourne out my experience.


The AIRLINK will remain in situ for the rest of time.(or until I die a fiery,breath grabbing death)

[Gazjam]

Keeping it real..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theoneshow/consumer/2009/08/27/get_your_refund_distance_selli.html

7 days from receipt of goods, not the order date.
The time starts the day after you receive if and must be rejected by the end of the 7th working day.

*EDIT*
Just saw you did an edit.


@Jerry,
I spoke to Airlink at length and they seemed a good bunch of guys, happy to help?
I'd return it to get one of these:
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/protection_upgrade/57-RCB2.html
fitted to the output.

I asked them to fit an RCBO to mine on Ali's say, but it was costly to swap out.
Worth it for fit n forget peace of mind.

@Tony
Can I have your Quads if they don't go up in smoke? :eyebrows:

[Gazjam]

Interesting....I use it with an active pre and dac, my bantum is battery powered
the Improvement is not insignificant......my pre also serves as a head amp for my head phone set up.
Your sonic findings have Bourne out my experience.


The AIRLINK will remain in situ for the rest of time.(or until I die a fiery,breath grabbing death)


Tony, digging your style mate. :)
Balanced mains in my system was night and day, and that was with my amp plugged in too.

[jandl100]

I'd have a word and seeing about getting it modded Jerry. Which one did you get?

I got this one http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS1500.html

Would you concur with Gaz that I need one of these fitted?
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/protection_upgrade/57-RCB2.html
Or do I need different / more?

[Ali Tait]

Yes, that will do the job. As long as you have double pole protection on both primary and secondary it will be safe.

[NRG]

IMHO thats not large enough for a power amp like yours Jerry, I would have gone for a 3000VA like Ali's, capable of 12.5amp.

Edit: to add some detail, your Krell can deliver 500w into 4Ohm on peaks, thats just over 11amps draw. The actual short term current peaks for the power supply if is a typical RC type can be 4 to 6 times this at 100Hz.

OK so you are not going to run it that hard all of the time but I suspect a 1500VA is just not enough....in fact the 4000VA may be a better choice yet...just my 2p worth.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I think Jerry said he wasn't going to use it with his power amp.

[Ali Tait]

Don't think so either, but you are right Neal, I'd forgotten Jerry was using a Krell now.

[NRG]

My comment was in response to Jerrys post #234. I would want to power everything off the same unit to maximise the benefit. If its only used to run a CDP and pre then the unit he has may be over specced! :)

[Gazjam]

Jerry, if you get a chance could you see if the bps plays nice with your AG1500?
Brian and I will be getting our kit together but won't be for a while.

Be good to know if they do the same thing slightly differently or if they work well when used together.

Just if you get the time and can be bothered! :)

Thanks.

[Gazjam]

I got this one http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS1500.html

Would you concur with Gaz that I need one of these fitted?
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/protection_upgrade/57-RCB2.html
Or do I need different / more?

I was going to get that one Jerry but was advised there wasn't room in the case for the secondary protection pcb?

Was advised to get the bigger cased 2KVA hard wired one, which had room for the additional gubbins.
Could probably DIY somethhing on the outside though, but bang (sorry!) goes your warranty I guess.
Just phone 'em, they will sort you out.

[jandl100]

Nah - I'm pissed off with it all. :lol:

Selling the dang thing at a small loss to a fellow AOS-er. :thumbsup:

The benefits weren't huge with my CDP compared to the AG1500, about the same as changing speaker cables - and it's not meaty enough for my current hungry Krell power amp (which I suspect is a medium-term keeper). So fook it - off it goes - someone else here can benefit from my mistake! :cool:

[jandl100]

Edit: to add some detail, your Krell can deliver 500w into 4Ohm on peaks, thats just over 11amps draw. The actual short term current peaks for the power supply if is a typical RC type can be 4 to 6 times this at 100Hz.

OK so you are not going to run it that hard all of the time but I suspect a 1500VA is just not enough....in fact the 4000VA may be a better choice yet...just my 2p worth.

I seem to recall a review of my Krell which measured 330wpc into 8 ohms - so that's 660W into 4 ohms as this is a Krell we are talking about. :D

[Gazjam]

Nah - I'm pissed off with it all. :lol:

Selling the dang thing at a small loss to a fellow AOS-er. :thumbsup:

The benefits weren't huge with my CDP compared to the AG1500, about the same as changing speaker cables - and it's not meaty enough for my current hungry Krell power amp (which I suspect is a medium-term keeper). So fook it - off it goes - someone else here can benefit from my mistake! :cool:

Ah well. :)
Suppose the level of improvement can depend on how good (or in my case crap) your mains are to begin with.
Brian plugged his Ag500 and my supply was reading 251 volts!