Power Inspired AG500

[Sovereign]

I consistently get around 248v at my house, my AG1500 feeds my hifi a smoooooth 230v :)

[AlanS]

I get 242 v.

[Gazjam]

This is where maybe a regen unit would come into its own...?
Be good to get the BPS and AG500 regen together and see whats what.

Couple of weeks and we'll compare.

[Yomanze]

This is where maybe a regen unit would come into its own...?
Be good to get the BPS and AG500 regen together and see whats what.

Couple of weeks and we'll compare.

This wouldn't be a fair comparison as the BPS has way more headroom. The AG1500 would be better to compare.

[Ali Tait]

As long as both are working well within their capacities I'd have thought it would not matter.

[Gazjam]

Naa, wouldn't have thought so either tbh.
The AG500 had plenty of capacity left over after the usual bits of kit are plugged into it?

[brian2957]

I have an AG500 and can give you some figures .

dared I30 ( 30 wpc ) valve amp = 33% of available output.
music server / computer = 6% of available output
Panasonis 37 inch plasma TV = 24% output
Virgin Media box = 5% of available output

Equaling 68% of available output. Not sure how much headroom is acceptable but this seems reasonable to me.

Hope this helps.

[Yomanze]

I have an AG500 and can give you some figures .

dared I30 ( 30 wpc ) valve amp = 33% of available output.
music server / computer = 6% of available output
Panasonis 37 inch plasma TV = 24% output
Virgin Media box = 5% of available output

Equaling 68% of available output. Not sure how much headroom is acceptable but this seems reasonable to me.

Hope this helps.

Could you compare the sound with and without the TV on?

[brian2957]

I tried it with and without the TV Neil and couldn't detect any audible difference to the SQ .

[Sovereign]

When you chaps carry out your regen / BMS demo's can you look into which is should be first in the chain, the Regen then the BSP or the other way round.
I had a 3.4Kva regen about 5 years ago and it hummed like mad, the regen before the BMS will cure this problem, thanks.

[Gazjam]

Yup, will do James.
Curious about that ourselves!
If they work together I'd be considering getting a Regen unit as well at a later date.
Mains...done.

Was thinking about possible transformer hum, quite picky about noise in the listening room.
Installing my BPS in the next room, through the wall, via a drilled hole through to mains distribution block to sit behind the hifi rack.

Thinking about it actually and whilst the image is fresh in my head, I have a 2nd system in that same room.
Can I have TWO cables connected to the output terminals of the BPS, one through the wall for the mains system and a 2nd in the same room for the second system?

2KVA transformer, so should be plenty of reserve to do this?
2nd system only has server, Flat TV, Virgin box and T-Amp and both systems wont be on at the same time.

Also,
As my Servers have non linear PSU's (best quality BUT still "standard" PC power supply's), am I best NOT wiring the server into the Balanced mains in case it injects switching noise back into the mains?

*My PSU's were picked as they measure extremely well for DC ripple etc.
Very quiet electrically.
Still...I wonder if I should keep it seperate from Dac and Amp...bit it IS my digital source, so you'd want to maximise the benefit for that. :scratch:


thanks.

[Ali Tait]

If you do get problems with hum, buy one of Nick's dc blocker boards, did the trick on mine.

[Yomanze]

I tried it with and without the TV Neil and couldn't detect any audible difference to the SQ .

Tempting to give one a go then, thanks.

[brian2957]

Well it's made a difference to my system Neil so mines will be staying . If you buy one please share your thoughts on it .Good luck whatever you do mate .

[Gazjam]

@Ali,
Any problems running two cables from the TX output, each to a distribution block to two systems in different rooms?

Be great to run balanced to my 2nd system as well.

cheers!

[Ali Tait]

Nope, as long as you don't overload the transformer, or run a mix of balanced and unbalanced power in the second system.

[Gazjam]

Thanks mate.
Only one system on at a time, the bedroom system all running off the 2KVA transformer.

You say not to run a mixed of balanced and unblanced power?
In my main system I was considering running everything except the bits of kit with a switching supply from the BPS.

Switched supply units (Tivo and router) would be plugged straight into a wall socket.
That ok?
Or just run everything from the BPS and dont worry about Switched supplies in the chain.

thanks...

[Ali Tait]

It's unlikely, but possible, that doing could pose a danger if there was a fault. I'd run all from the BPS, but run all the switching stuff from the Belkin (plugged into the BPS) That should keep noise away from the rest of the system.

[Gazjam]

Spot on, will do that.

Thanks Ali, be setting it all up soon.
Feel another Scots Mafia get together coming on...

[Ali Tait]

Cool, look forward to it.

[brian2957]

Let us know what gear you're werrin . Wouldn't want tae clash :lol:

[Ali Tait]

:D

[Gazjam]

Here we go.... :booty:

[brian2957]

You gonny be the naked host mate :eek: If so I'll take the pizza out of the oven (:

[Gazjam]

too far Amigo.... :)

[Sovereign]

Not sure if this is of interest to anyone but here are the internal pictures of my AG1500

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n533/SovereignKing/IMG_7481.jpg (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/SovereignKing/media/IMG_7481.jpg.html)

[MartinT]

I note it uses a switched-mode PSU. Compact design for such output power.

[Sovereign]

I note it uses a switched-mode PSU. Compact design for such output power.

Martin, is that the yellow square in front of the blue and red wires?

[MartinT]

That whole section behind the central bar heatsink looks like an SMPS to me. The give-aways are the toroid chokes, reservoir caps and yellow transformer that you have pointed out.

I used to repair computer SMPS back in the 1980s, real fresh underpants jobs they were sometimes.

[Figlet108]

Am I right in saying (and I'm kind of looking at Ali here) that if I was to go for either of these two Airlinks they would have all the protection I would need that has been discussed in previous posts:
BPS2110S (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS2110S.html)
BPS5120 (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS5120.html)

Anyone know what the surge limiter does and what negative effect it might have on the sound?

[Figlet108]

I should add that I already have two AG1500, one for audio and one for home theatre so when I get the Airlink I'll be another data point for the difference between them and which should go first in the chain.

My logic dictates to have the regenerator first, as in essence that's your own private power station, and then balance after that. Otherwise it feels like you're balancing something that then just get regenerated and thus isn't the balancing effect just lost?

Don't really know what I'm talking about here, just talking from instinct...

[Sovereign]

Jason,
All I know is I used to have an airline 3.4kva bps and it hummed like mad, I could hear it as I was coming downstairs to my Hifi room, but the I was right in the middle of town. You may want to partner it with something to chat this.

[Ali Tait]

Am I right in saying (and I'm kind of looking at Ali here) that if I was to go for either of these two Airlinks they would have all the protection I would need that has been discussed in previous posts:
BPS2110S (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS2110S.html)
BPS5120 (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS5120.html)

Anyone know what the surge limiter does and what negative effect it might have on the sound?

Hi Jason, hope you are well?

Those two will be fine yes, though do you really need 5kva? Unless you are running huge powerful class A amps, I'd say 1.5 or 2kva should be plenty.

The surge limiter prevents the high current inrush you get when energising a big transformer like this, without the limiter it will trip the breaker in your CU. I don't think it is detrimental to the sound, all it does is limit current when it goes too high.

If you go for a 2kva or more, don't feed it from one of your regenerators, as it is capable of dragging more current than the regenerator can provide, so not a good idea.

As has been mentioned, there can be problems with hum, due to dc offset on the mains. I had this with mine, solved with a dc blocker which can be bought from Nick (Lurcher).

[Sovereign]

Ali
Would you say it is a better idea to put the BPS before the AG 1500 instead?

[Ali Tait]

Yes I'd say so, otherwise you could, if using a 1.5kva trannie, be using the full capacity of the regenerator through one socket.

Dunno how that wink emoticon got there, wasn't deliberate!

[Gazjam]

Am I right in saying (and I'm kind of looking at Ali here) that if I was to go for either of these two Airlinks they would have all the protection I would need that has been discussed in previous posts:
BPS2110S (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS2110S.html)
BPS5120 (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS5120.html)

Anyone know what the surge limiter does and what negative effect it might have on the sound?

Hi Jason,
For my 2KVA Transformer (on Ali's advice) I went for a additional protection: MCB on the input and a 16a RCBO on the output.
MCBO here:
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/protection_upgrade/57-MCB1.html

And the same RCBO from this transformer.
http://www.airlinktransformers.com/standard_balanced_power_supplies/61-BPS3110S.html

[Figlet108]

Hi Ali, James, Gary

thanks for the replies.

So as for the inevitable transformer hum I am going to employ my patented silencer technology that I like to call BrickWall™ I'm lucky to have my CU on the other side of my ginnel, so I'm going to put it out there and route the cables thought the wall. The ginnel is enclosed and private, so it'll be completely safe (and silent) especially after I box the whole thing in.

As for size, I'm just not sure 2kva is big enough. I'm going to hang 2x AG1500 off it to power tri-amped main speakers and a full 7.1 multichannel with beefy pre-pro, individual monoblocks, 2 subwoofers, plasma, BD player, TiVo etc etc.

The other option is: I have 2 dedicated spurs in my CU for hifi. I could get 2x 2kva Airlinks connected to each spur and hang an AG1500 off each and put stereo on one and AV on the other...

The prices for different sizes of hardwired with protection breakdown thus:
1.5kva: £348 (£232/kva)
2.0kva: £348 (£174/kva)
3.0kva: £432 (£144/kva)
5.0kva: £516 (£103/kva)

[Sovereign]

I'm only guessing here but if your running three TSS' thats a lot of power consumption. I would opt for at least the 3Kva

[Chops]

Jason

I ended up buying the 5kva model. See the discussion here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9361&page=6. Better impedance swung it in the end, with the cost difference being relatively modest.

Regarding 2 boxes, I isolate the noisy stuff using a Belkin PF30. Do you use all this gear at the same time?

Chris

[Mark Grant]

As for size, I'm just not sure 2kva is big enough. I'm going to hang 2x AG1500 off it to power tri-amped main speakers and a full 7.1 multichannel with beefy pre-pro, individual monoblocks, 2 subwoofers, plasma, BD player, TiVo etc etc.


You really need to know how many watts you need :) , no point in guessing with electricity.
If you phoned the manufacturer for technical advice the first question would be how many watts / amps you need.

I would suggest to buy a simple tester such as this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Energenie-ENERGY-SAVING-POWER-METER-SAVE-MONEY-/221168627440?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement _Equipment_ET&hash=item337ead6ef0
and make a list of each device in your system and start from the beginning.

[brian2957]

Dunelm Mills stock this power meter if there's one near you .

[Mark Grant]

Good find :) I thought they only did curtains and pillows etc :)
http://www.dunelm-mill.com/shop/status-energy-monitor-277428

[Figlet108]

Do you use all this gear at the same time?
Hi Chris,
watching movies will use most of the kit at the same time (tri-amped L/R + all the other amps for the rest of the 7.1 and the subs and plasma etc)

I haven't tried the Belkin but I'm prejudiced against any filters which is why I went for 2x AG1500 to keep all non-stereo kit separate.

I agree about the 5kva being a relatively modest increase in cost which is why I was initially drawn to it, especially given that its noisy hum won't bother me. Over-engineered overkill is always tempting in my book.

Mark, I actually have a similar thing to that already - just never thought to use it to measure my needs. Thanks for the advice.

James, it's 2xTSS + 1xA40 for L/R, + 2xA60 for Surr+Back, + 1xA80(for a bi-amped) centre, + 2xAudiovector subs + Onkyo 5508 prepro + 50" plasma + BD player - I guess I'd better start measuring... :)

[brian2957]

Good find :) I thought they only did curtains and pillows etc :)
http://www.dunelm-mill.com/shop/status-energy-monitor-277428

Yup , the wife dragged me in there today Mark and it was the only thing of interest I found in the whole shop :lol:

[brian2957]

A wee bargain for somebody ?

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?86900-Fs-Power-Inspired-AG-1500

[Sovereign]

Brian did you guys ever post your findings of the balanced mains that was ordered?

[brian2957]

Gary hasn't had the chance to wire it up yet mate . He ordered one without external plugs which needs hard wired internally . Rest assured as soon as we can make a comparison we will post our findings . Hopefully in the next couple of weeks.

[CSM]

Dunelm Mills stock this power meter if there's one near you .

OMG.

I reached this thread by reading a recommendation from some guy with a monster setup. Skipped to the last page and, well, nearly fell off my chair when I read this.

I thought you said Dunelm Mills stock the AG500!

When I was a kid I remember my mum will take me to the Dunelm near us. Used to fall asleep on some of the cushy furniture/beds.

[loo]

Did a comparison between the various regenerators and balanced transformers ever get done by anyone? at one point there seemed to be a few different threads on this which I was following but they have all gone cold:(
come on guys whats the best value option?
Paul

[Yomanze]

I think the consensus was that balanced mains makes more of a positive difference, but both together is greater than the sum of its parts.

[brian2957]

Hi Paul , in monetary terms both cost more or less the same . However they provide very different results when hooked up to a system . The balanced power supply ( BPS ) gives a more immediate , and impressive , improvement IMO. The sound is very clean indeed . Bass is tighter and deeper , midrange is also clearer and more projected ( into the room) and the treble is much more natural . With the BPS dynamics are hugely improved . With the regen unit the improvements are not as pronounced . The improvements are similar to those provided by the BPS , however , dynamics remain the same as before . A lot of the mains hash disappears and the sound becomes much easier on the ear , more ' analogue ' IMO . In both cases the sounstage expands in all directions ( more so with the BPS ) If you like a very dynamic fast sound then the BPS may be for you . If you like a more relaxed ' pipe and slippers ' type of sound then you should consider the mains regen unit. In both instances each unit provides a very worthwhile upgrade which I believe is unobtainable by any other means , it just depends upon your preference . We never got round to trying both in tandem ( maybe when the dark nights come in ) . I'm sure some of the troops will be along to share their take on this subject. Good luck whichever you choose . Hope this helps :)

[synsei]

Is there any point in running a Belkin PF30 in tandem with an AG500 or are they both doing the same thing?

[brian2957]

The AG500 has 6 IEC outputs Dave . They require the output cable to have these plugs fitted http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-IEC-MALE-INLINE-PLUGS-DJ-DISCO-REWIRABLE-MAINS-LIGHTS-240V-CONNECTORS-/261310707444?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Cables_Leads_Conne ctors&hash=item3cd754f6f4 . I think if you plugged a Belkin unit into the AG500 you would run the risk of overloading the plug. Anyway the AG500 totally regenerates ( cleans hopefully ) the mains . So I don't think any other treatment would be necessary . 6 outlets not enough mate :)http://www.powerinspired.com/ag500-ac-regenerator-500w-p-1723.html

[synsei]

Six outputs is one more than I have to play with at present Brian, I was only wondering out loud (or in writing as it were) whether there would be any benefit from using both in tandem. The PF30 makes a significant difference in my system so I guess my speculative thoughts about using both units together might be a little on the greedy side... :D

[loo]

Cheers Brian yes that helped ,next Question can you remember the supplier of the balanced units that people were trying I seem to remember a plug and play unit that had protection against the pitfalls of balanced power .
And how much higher rating than my systems consumption would you recommend
thanks Paul

[brian2957]

I've never compared the AG500 to the Belkin PF30 Dave . I was however using one of these before the AG500 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Belkin-ISOLATOR-PUREAV-6-Way-Socket-Surge-Protector-3m-/190547644123?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Surge_Pr otectors_Power_Strips&hash=item2c5d864edb. Result = no contest , the AG500 won hands down. I know Gary ( Gazjam) was using a PF30 before he installed his balanced PSU and the improvement with the BPS wasn't subtle.

[synsei]

Hmmmm interesting, another thing to add to my fantasy Chrissy present list then. If I receive everything on that list I may need to move to a bigger house :lol:

[brian2957]

Hmmmm interesting, another thing to add to my fantasy Chrissy present list then. If I receive everything on that list I may need to move to a bigger house :lol:

Come up here mate , the houses are mucho cheaper (:

[brian2957]

Cheers Brian yes that helped ,next Question can you remember the supplier of the balanced units that people were trying I seem to remember a plug and play unit that had protection against the pitfalls of balanced power .
And how much higher rating than my systems consumption would you recommend
thanks Paul
I'm afraid I'm not an expert on these Paul . I've been lucky enough to have heard and compared them and am quite happy to comment on their effect . However , there are others on the forum who know much more than me about these. You have PM.

[Sovereign]

I only have one hand free, give me half an hour and I'll give you an update.

[loo]

I'm afraid I'm not an expert on these Paul . I've been lucky enough to have heard and compared them and am quite happy to comment on their effect . However , there are others on the forum who know much more than me about these. You have PM.
Cheers Brian reply sent


I only have one hand free, give me half an hour and I'll give you an update.
that's great I'll be waiting:lol:
Paul

[brian2957]

FFS you just came into my head there buddy :mental: .I just remembered that you'd been thinking about building your own BPS .

[Ali Tait]

Cheers Brian yes that helped ,next Question can you remember the supplier of the balanced units that people were trying I seem to remember a plug and play unit that had protection against the pitfalls of balanced power .
And how much higher rating than my systems consumption would you recommend
thanks Paul

Here you go-

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/balanced_power_supply/

[Ali Tait]

2kva and up will be more than enough unless you run monster Class A amps.

[Sovereign]

I stared off with a 3.2kva BPS a few years ago and loved it, but sold it on due to a house move.
I bought a AG1500 quite a while ago now and really appreciated the difference it made to my hifi. Then everybody started talking about balanced power supplies like they came back into fashion, so I gave one another go to see if the difference was as good in my new house and it it worked well with the regen.
I bought a 3kva BPS from Airlink and hard wired it into the mains supply before it reached my AG1500. Together the regen and the BPS worked well together and better then either component on its own.
I found the AG1500 lowered the noise floor making the background quieter and the bass cleaner and more defined, I found the regen increased the special separation between instruments and the sounds seemed to hang in the air which I liked.
The BPS to me added more meat and flesh to the sound giving more bass and greater dynamics, a little bit like buying a better power amplifier.
If I only had one option to buy a regen or a BPS I would go for the BPS. If you get the hard wired option from Airlink they are reasonably cheap.

[loo]

2kva and up will be more than enough unless you run monster Class A amps.
Thanks for the info and link Ali , I don't use monster class A amps but do have a few power hungry OTL's the greediest 1600w at max power rating
Paul


I stared off with a 3.2kva BPS a few years ago and loved it, but sold it on due to a house move.
I bought a AG1500 quite a while ago now and really appreciated the difference it made to my hifi. Then everybody started talking about balanced power supplies like they came back into fashion, so I gave one another go to see if the difference was as good in my new house and it it worked well with the regen.
I bought a 3kva BPS from Airlink and hard wired it into the mains supply before it reached my AG1500. Together the regen and the BPS worked well together and better then either component on its own.
I found the AG1500 lowered the noise floor making the background quieter and the bass cleaner and more defined, I found the regen increased the special separation between instruments and the sounds seemed to hang in the air which I liked.
The BPS to me added more meat and flesh to the sound giving more bass and greater dynamics, a little bit like buying a better power amplifier.
If I only had one option to buy a regen or a BPS I would go for the BPS. If you get the hard wired option from Airlink they are reasonably cheap.
that's great info just what I wanted so BPS it is
cheers Paul

[Sovereign]

I managed to wangle a deal where I just bought the BPS transformer on its own and saved myself a few bob.

[loo]

Hi James electrickery isn't my forte so I will be going for one of the plug and play units with protection if I can work out which one I need , they seem to do Quiet a few.
Cheers Paul

[Ali Tait]

Thanks for the info and link Ali , I don't use monster class A amps but do have a few power hungry OTL's the greediest 1600w at max power rating
Paul


that's great info just what I wanted so BPS it is
cheers Paul

Well, that's 2.4kva, so I'd go for a 5kva in your case IMHO.

[loo]

Cheers Ali ,that solves the decision of weather to go for a conditioning balanced unit or standard one as their conditioning units only seem to go up to 2kv
thanks again Paul