View Full Version : Mod your Beresford 7520
Stratmangler
01-09-2009, 11:04
Try looking here Clive http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3740 .
Chris:)
I think it is this one Clive
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3740
EDIT: Got to love simultaneous posts! At least we agree Chris! ;) EDIT 2: ...and Eddie! ;)
I've missed a description of this, presumably a resistor change. Can someone point me to a post describing this? (I have searched for Caiman bass mod)is it the MLC 5/6 mod?
Should be here, if I read it correctly http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3740
Rich, sounds like you got the exact meaning of what I was trying to say. What you're telling me sounds very reassuring. OK, I'll take the plunge then. And no, I won't be doing it myself, I can hold a soldering iron and even use it, far as caps and resistors are concerned, but I wouldn't mess with chips as tiny and myriad-legged as this one. Got an engineer lined up that will help on that.
Thanks mate :cool:
Stratmangler
01-09-2009, 11:07
First time I've seen three replies all come up within seconds of each other (look at the times on the last 3 posts).
Must be a case of great minds all thinking alike ;)
Chris:)
Should be here, if I read it correctly http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3740
Thanks Everyone!
First time I've seen three replies all come up within seconds of each other (look at the times on the last 3 posts).
Must be a case of great minds all thinking alike ;)
And quick to the draw, too :lol: Most efficient work, even if I say so myself ;)
StanleyB
02-09-2009, 07:55
Try the Caiman bass mod. I am now using 47K, and with very good results.
A quick update:
I have had better results on my system with 36K. Try 39K if you can't get 36K. Leo has had good results with 42K. The mod is designed around the use of the LM4562NA only! It works on both the Caiman and the TC-7520.
STan
Hi Stan,
I must be the only one that does not want more bass from the Caiman! Does the mod being tried just boost the amount of bass or are there other benefits as well.
Regards
Chris
Hi Stan/Chris
I also am a bit perplexed by the need for extra bass. My digital system is sounding better than it ever has and if anything I would have thought a reduction in bass (not really needed, but more akin to my feelings) would be required. It is not as great sounding as my Analogue system but as "her indoors" said - "thats not bad for a digital system" High praise indeed !!!!!!
Cheers
Nick
StanleyB
02-09-2009, 10:20
I must be the only one that does not want more bass from the Caiman! Does the mod being tried just boost the amount of bass or are there other benefits as well.
This is work in progress:). It's merely a suggestion for those with the 4562NA who are looking for (more) foot tapping bass. It's not a 'must have' mod.
Stan
Shanedudddy2
04-09-2009, 22:35
I cant work out exactly from the pictures the bass mod, I have done MLC 5/6 mod.
So where do I go from here?
I cant work out exactly from the pictures the bass mod, I have done MLC 5/6 mod.
So where do I go from here?
This mod? http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3740 if so what is it your struggling with?
Shanedudddy2
05-09-2009, 02:48
I cant tell what is changed in that picture exactly.
If someone who's done it could do a quick edit of the picture circling the changes as to what gets soldered where?
Id be very thankful :)
I can see the 2 resistors, but cant tell where they are connected to, and why is there a capacitor on connected to one of the legs of the opamp.
Sorry if this is a noob question :P
I cant tell what is changed in that picture exactly.
If someone who's done it could do a quick edit of the picture circling the changes as to what gets soldered where?
Id be very thankful :)
I can see the 2 resistors, but cant tell where they are connected to, and why is there a capacitor on connected to one of the legs of the opamp.
Sorry if this is a noob question :P
I edited the below pic, see if it makes things any clearer :)
The capacitor and resistor are soldered in series
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/stanmod.jpg
Shanedudddy2
05-09-2009, 11:24
Thank you, that helps a lot :)
Covenant
05-09-2009, 15:52
Just thought I would post where I am up to. As of this morning 7520+ LM4032+WM8716 DAC. This afternoon I did the MCL5/6 mod and put back a 4562 op-amp in place of the 4032.
Very very pleased with the result-a far more intimate sound with good control of the bass. I presume its the MCL5/6 mod that has done this as previously with the 4562 I thought the bass a little muddy.
Its taken me ages to decide to do this partly as I have been trying Mike's digital cables and partly that I didn't like the idea of performing a vasectomy
on my dac.
So next week I should receive two OPA 2132 op-amps and I can see how these compare to the 4562.
The only thing bothering me is if I ever decide to put back MCL5/6 its going to be a bugger and a half as there isn't much space for soldering.
By the way Tirna's soldering is impeccable-there is no evidence that the dac chip has been replaced other than by checking the reference number-beautiful work.
StanleyB
05-09-2009, 16:26
Which MLC mod did you do Jerry? The removal, or the addition of the 100nF/36K? The latter has brought my NS1000M to life.
Covenant
05-09-2009, 16:32
Just the removal Stan. I use floorstanding speakers in a small room so have, in the past experienced bass boom. This makes me a bit reluctant to try your latest mod although I havent ruled it out altogether.
Quick question. Does the MLC5/6 mod affect the headphone stage or just line out, or is it simply MLC8/9 that are responsible for that?
StanleyB
07-09-2009, 23:12
It affects the headphone stage as well.
Stan
So as a non headphone user, I could just to the mod to 5/6 and not bother with modding the other one?
Ta.
Covenant
10-09-2009, 19:20
I have the OPA2132 in the line-out side. ML5/6 caps clipped. The caps are still there, but the circuit is not complete, so to speak. I'm not sure which chip is on the headphone side anymore, you need magnifying glasses to read these tiny chips, but I either have the LM4562NA or the original NE5532 chip on the headphone side.
I am totally loving it. Very tuneful, lots of rhythm, deep bass. These are my speaker system observations, mind you, not headphones. I've actually never used the headphone side.
Stan, yes it is an FET opamp and it sounds really nice in your 7520.
The LM4562NA I tried before had the advantage of being cleaner as in less distortion for a given volume, but the OPA2132 is so full bodied, rhythmic, and really likes to dance:)
CD
Got my OPA2132's today (for some reason they sent 3). I have two installed at the moment. Initial impression is of an extended but well controlled bass and a more focused sound stage. I will try replacing one 4562 in the headphone circuit over the week end.
Great value if you can find them.
So as a non headphone user, I could just to the mod to 5/6 and not bother with modding the other one?
Ta.
Got my answer in another Thread. :)
Got my OPA2132's today (for some reason they sent 3). I have two installed at the moment. Initial impression is of an extended but well controlled bass and a more focused sound stage. I will try replacing one 4562 in the headphone circuit over the week end.
Great value if you can find them.
Good to hear! I have one OPA2132 in the line-out and the original NE5532 in the headphone socket. I'm still loving it. Every time I sit down to listen, even for just a moment, I don't want to get back up:)
CD
StanleyB
10-09-2009, 20:52
Every time I sit down to listen, even for just a moment, I don't want to get back up:)
That's the addictive part of the headphone amp in the TC-7520/SE:).
STan
Covenant
12-09-2009, 08:42
Stan, I had a spare OPA2132-if you haven't tried this op-amp I could stick it in the post to you. They are hard to get in the UK.
machinehead
12-09-2009, 19:35
Has anyone tried the various boutique cap upgrades in the signal path or power supply section?
Stan, I had a spare OPA2132-if you haven't tried this op-amp I could stick it in the post to you. They are hard to get in the UK.
Jerry,
if Stan hasn't a need for it I would buy it from you.
Of course if Stan wants it its his.
Thanks
Gary.
StanleyB
12-09-2009, 20:08
Stan, I had a spare OPA2132-if you haven't tried this op-amp I could stick it in the post to you. They are hard to get in the UK.
Cheers Jerry. I can certainly find good use for it:). I have been looking for one as it happens.
Stan
Covenant
12-09-2009, 20:44
Stan-no problem-just let everyone know what you think about it compared to the 4562.
Gaz-I will be trying one OPA2132 and one 4562, if I like this combo I will send you the spare one.
Stan-no problem-just let everyone know what you think about it compared to the 4562.
Gaz-I will be trying one OPA2132 and one 4562, if I like this combo I will send you the spare one.
Jerry and Gaz,
Please keep me advised of how things work out. For my part I have a metal topped 4562HA op-amp currently having it's legs bent and trimmed and I intend to roll it into my 7520 on return - I'll keep you posted with my findings. Based on your superior knowledge and experience ;) and the fact that I do a 50/50 mix of headphone and speaker listening, where would you think the 4562 should go first, speaker or headphone circuit? (and which is which :doh: :scratch: :doh: :scratch: , to save me ploughing through pages of posts).
Cheers,
Speaker circuit on the left hand side, headphone circuit on the right as you look at the front.
I find 4562 particularly suitable for the headphone part, at least with my headphones (Senn HD580) but it's quite good with the line out as well, it's a question of taste, so give both a try, see which you prefer. I do the same 50/50 mix, btw ;)
Speaker circuit on the left hand side, headphone circuit on the right as you look at the front.
I find 4562 particularly suitable for the headphone part, at least with my headphones (Senn HD580) but it's quite good with the line out as well, it's a question of taste, so give both a try, see which you prefer. I do the same 50/50 mix, btw ;)
Thanks Eddie, just what I needed. My headphones are Senn HD280 so, hopefully, they may perform similarly to your 580s.
Cheers,
Covenant
13-09-2009, 10:29
Jerry and Gaz,
Please keep me advised of how things work out. For my part I have a metal topped 4562HA op-amp currently having it's legs bent and trimmed and I intend to roll it into my 7520 on return - I'll keep you posted with my findings. Based on your superior knowledge and experience ;) and the fact that I do a 50/50 mix of headphone and speaker listening, where would you think the 4562 should go first, speaker or headphone circuit? (and which is which :doh: :scratch: :doh: :scratch: , to save me ploughing through pages of posts).
Cheers,
I dont use headphones Dave so I am not the person to ask. I think, from what I have read that the op-amps are in series so replacing one affects the other to a degree. If you are replacing the op-amp yourself get an anti-static wristband (I fried one op-amp before I got one)
Cheers Jerry. I can certainly find good use for it:). I have been looking for one as it happens.
Stan
If anyone is interested, I got my OPA2132s from this gent on ebay;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250333480930&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#shId
They're pretty cheap and I can vouch for the quality:)
CD
Shanedudddy2
16-09-2009, 11:56
ordered 2 of those mostly boredom n curiosity, will post how I think they are with my headphones(K701, D2000's) and speakers (Wharfedale 9.2's) when they arrive
Covenant
16-09-2009, 14:20
The more I use my Caimanised 7520 with the OPA2132's the more I like it. It has greater presence then the 4562 and voices seem more natural. A real bargain if you can get one.
Stan I posted my spare op-amp today but dont hold your breath because the post is bad news at the moment.
Jerry,
based on your observations (using the same Caimanised Dac as myself) I ordered a couple today. :)
I dont want to go down the road to unsatisfaction with always changing opamps etc, but your description of more prescence, more natural vocals are what I always thought would make the Caiman sound a little bit more to my liking.
So good to hear these amps do that.
This "bass mod" schenanigans I've read about...you think its necessary really?
I use floorstanders in a smallish room like yourself, and "more" bass isn't really what I'm after. Tighter, more defined....sure. But not more.
I'm hoping the 2132's extra prescence add that little bit I would wish for.
Thanks
Gary.
Covenant
17-09-2009, 14:11
Hi Gaz,
Glad you are trying the 2132-at least if you dont like it you have not wasted a lot of money!
I have decided against the bass mod at the moment, I find the bass more than sufficient and if anything a little deeper with the 2132. Never say never though. The MCL5/6 mod was a success.
Have you spoken to Jimmy re the squeezebox yet?
Gazzer, if you don't like the 2132, I'm here for a quick, clean and safe disposal of one of 'em :lol: Just out of curiosity, more than anything, although I still got the AD826 to try once my DAC gets back from the guy putting in the Wolfson chip.
Jerry,
based on your observations (using the same Caimanised Dac as myself) I ordered a couple today. :)
I dont want to go down the road to unsatisfaction with always changing opamps etc, but your description of more prescence, more natural vocals are what I always thought would make the Caiman sound a little bit more to my liking.
So good to hear these amps do that.
This "bass mod" schenanigans I've read about...you think its necessary really?
I use floorstanders in a smallish room like yourself, and "more" bass isn't really what I'm after. Tighter, more defined....sure. But not more.
I'm hoping the 2132's extra prescence add that little bit I would wish for.
Thanks
Gary.
Hi Gaz,
Ditto to all of that, me too. Are you going to bend and trim your own legs or get Jimmy to do it for you. If Jimmy is going to do it, I'm sure he would prefer you to shave tem first :lolsign::lolsign: (long live the Goons, in my memory anyway ;) ).
I've not heard anything from him re my little job but, judging by the posts on here, he may be too busy Caimanising 7520s - I'll e-mail him now to check whether he has received it.
Cheers,
Covenant
17-09-2009, 16:38
Dave,
If I may reply on Gaz's behalf the 2132 has normal legs that just slip into the socket in the 7520. It takes literally 20 seconds.
Dave,
If I may reply on Gaz's behalf the 2132 has normal legs that just slip into the socket in the 7520. It takes literally 20 seconds.
Thanks Jerry,
20 secs for you probably = 20 mins for me, :lol: but it's nice to know.
I'm now waiting for Gaz's reply re shaving :lolsign: - he's into Goon humour so it should be funny ;) .
Cheers,
Thanks Jerry,
20 secs for you probably = 20 mins for me, :lol: but it's nice to know.
I'm now waiting for Gaz's reply re shaving :lolsign: - he's into Goon humour so it should be funny ;) .
Cheers,
Hey Dave, as Jerry said - no leg bending (or spreading) required with these babies - just plug and play!
As to shaving my legs first at Jimmys behest....
being a typical robust, earthy Scots Bloke (i.e. "dead hairy";), the thought of anything sharp nearing my shins fills me with horror.
I like my legs and want to keep them - even if just to stop my trousers from bending! :)
And as to Jimmy Drips preferring my legs to be shaved first....
just what do you think Jimmy and I actually DID that night he came over to mine to deliver my Caimanised Dac? :eyebrows:
Like my trousers, I'm happiest in an unbent state. ;)
Gary.
Nice one Gaz - :lolsign: - I'll believe you, I think!
Cheers,
Just been trying the OPA2132 in the line out, bit muddy for my taste so far, I'll give it another day or so
I may have to remove the 36k+100nf mod with this one
Next thing to try in a few days is a linear psu , I had such good results fitting Paul Hynes regs in the Sabre dac it seems only right to try the PR3G2 regged psu set to 12v with the Caiman based 7520
If the main type of psu used does make a difference sonically this thing will certainly be worth trying;)
Unlike most linear based psu's based around a three pin regulator this discrete one isn't bothered about seeing the large cap on the 7520 DC input
Shanedudddy2
22-09-2009, 22:42
I found in my experience the bass mod just increased muddy bass levels, and make it more boomy, in a monotonic sense, again just my experience, i suppose others may more positive experience with it.
ZebuTheOxen
23-09-2009, 15:16
Nope, basically my experience as well.
The bass is certainly back down to about 100hz, but below that I'm getting significantly less than before I Caimanised my DAC, so I can only assume that it's down to the WM8716.
The whole reason the MCL 5 / 6 were cut originally was to give the DAC more clarity, broader soundstage, and to be honest, up to the point of 'Caimanisation' I was very happy with my modified 7520 (MCL5 / 6, dual 4562NA opamps). The difference with the caps cut was night and day.
I'm wondering how to boost the bass without muddying the waters again by connecting the MCL 5 / 6. The WM8716 has ridiuclous amounts of detail on the tops and mid, but it is a tad lacking on the low end.
Covenant
23-09-2009, 15:47
I have had the 2132 op-amps installed in my caimanised 7520 for a week or two now and think its the best I have heard from the various op-amps tried.
Lovely soungstaging and a crisp deep bass with the MCL 5/6 mod but the thing I really like is the way voices are projected. A cliche I know but they seem to be in the room with you. I really dont think I want to try the 36K mod.
Leo-please try it again with the 36K removed and see what you think. Its such a cheap upgrade too.
I have had the 2132 op-amps installed in my caimanised 7520 for a week or two now and think its the best I have heard from the various op-amps tried.
Lovely soungstaging and a crisp deep bass with the MCL 5/6 mod but the thing I really like is the way voices are projected.
Hi Jerry,
Glad you're liking it, particularly as I (and Gaz) have got a couple of 2132s each on the way. Can you answer me these questions please?
1) have you put 2132s in both positions and if so ....
2) what's your opinion on the headphone output, or do you never listen that way?
3) the MLC 5/6 mod is an essential part of the improvement I take it - is it difficult and reversible?
Cheers,
Covenant
23-09-2009, 16:21
Hi Dave,
Yes I have put the 2132's in both positions but may experiment a bit with one 2132 and one 4562. I dont possess a pair of headphones so havent tried the headphone output (maybe on my xmas list though....)
The MCL 5/6 mod is not difficult but you need sharp nosed wire cutters to get to the right capacitors nestled amongst other gubbins (thats a technical term). You only need to cut the wire so the bits stay in place and could be soldered back if need be I think. I used toe nail clippers but dont tell Leo or Stan.:)
The Mod takes 5 minutes Dave, take your time and its easy peasy.
Makes a BIG difference to clarity. vocal projection (as Jerry says) and up till getting the 7520 "caiminised", was by far the best upgrade to the sound I'd tried.
It really IS a no brainer.
Thanks Guys (Jerry and Gary),
I'll give it a try maybe, but only after listening to things without snipping any wires and after listening to headphones - 50% of my listening !
Cheers,
Shanedudddy2
24-09-2009, 00:08
5 minutes? what are you doing lol took me about 5 seconds, i mean unless your including unscrewing the case. :P
Shane,
I have a slow screwdriver
Thanks Guys (Jerry and Gary),
I'll give it a try maybe, but only after listening to things without snipping any wires and after listening to headphones - 50% of my listening !
Cheers,
Dave,
VERY BIG improvement snipping the wires, very.
Cant recommend it enough, will open up your music - seriously.
Summing up, it sounds more "real"
Go for it.
Thanks Guys (Jerry and Gary),
I'll give it a try maybe, but only after listening to things without snipping any wires and after listening to headphones - 50% of my listening !
Cheers,
Dave,
VERY BIG improvement snipping the wires, very.
Cant recommend it enough, will open up your music - seriously.
Summing up, it sounds more "real"
Check the pics on the "Mod your 7520" thread.
Check them again.
Go for it. :)
I have had the 2132 op-amps installed in my caimanised 7520 for a week or two now and think its the best I have heard from the various op-amps tried.
Lovely soungstaging and a crisp deep bass with the MCL 5/6 mod but the thing I really like is the way voices are projected. A cliche I know but they seem to be in the room with you. I really dont think I want to try the 36K mod.
Leo-please try it again with the 36K removed and see what you think. Its such a cheap upgrade too.
Ok , I promise to take out the R+C and give the OPA2132 another go, I'm currently trying an alternative psu:eyebrows:
Look forward to the results o that one Leo.
The Maplin one I use lets me use one of Frank's(effem) Krystal Kable mains leads.
Does it make a difference?
You bet.
:eyebrows:
I have had the 2132 op-amps installed in my caimanised 7520 for a week or two now and think its the best I have heard from the various op-amps tried.
Lovely soungstaging and a crisp deep bass with the MCL 5/6 mod but the thing I really like is the way voices are projected. A cliche I know but they seem to be in the room with you. I really dont think I want to try the 36K mod.
Leo-please try it again with the 36K removed and see what you think. Its such a cheap upgrade too.
The OPA2132 strikes me as one of those chips that's not perfect, like maybe a little bit lacking in detail, higher frequencies could be just a wee bit brighter, but it's very close with its full frequency response and dynamics, percussive engagements and sounds so nice that it just wants to engage you. If the OPA2132 could speak, it would say "Sit down, stay awhile.":)
I'm actually getting quite discouraged to try another opamp. What with the break in time etc. I'd just like to sit down and enjoy.
CD
Hi Dave,
Yes I have put the 2132's in both positions but may experiment a bit with one 2132 and one 4562. I dont possess a pair of headphones so havent tried the headphone output (maybe on my xmas list though....)
The MCL 5/6 mod is not difficult but you need sharp nosed wire cutters to get to the right capacitors nestled amongst other gubbins (thats a technical term). You only need to cut the wire so the bits stay in place and could be soldered back if need be I think. I used toe nail clippers but dont tell Leo or Stan.:)
Hi Jerry,
How long did your 2132's take to be delivered from the States?
I ordered mine over a week ago, and they are still stuck in Owensville, US.
The seller posted them the day after my order, so maybe still in transit.
How long did yours take Jerry?
Thanks,
Gary.
Covenant
25-09-2009, 19:33
About two weeks Gaz-hang on in there!
About two weeks Gaz-hang on in there!
H'okay! :)
Got the 2132s Yesterday (Saturday).
I've found OpAmps from new sound different affter a few days so I'm leaving them to cook for a few days before some proper listening.
Virgin Media Music on Demand sounds F'kin amazing though gotta say. Perhaps a bit warmer than the 4562s at first listen?
Defo more bass depth though, which is A+ in my book!
Just need to be sure its not at teh expense of the clarity or dynamics the 4562 had.
As I said too early to tell.
HAd the 2132's cooking for a few days now and can report in .
Now we're talking!
They are superb in my sytem, much preferred to the LM4562s.
The best description is that its as though the Dac now knows what music is, and makes sure it plays the tunes properly, and not just a collection of high and low frequencies.
Its presented in a way thats very easy to "get" the meaning of a song, very involving (I find myself listening to songs till the end now!) and a lot less treble orientated than I found the 4562s to be.
Its the best balanced I've ever heard my sytem sounding.
The 2132s do a great job of making my speakers disappear too. The illusion of back to front soundstage is very obvious and theres a great sense of instruments being played rather than just hearing the sounds they make, which makes for a very involving listen.
Love 'em, even 128kbs LastFm tracks sound more involving than my old Cambridge 640v ever did. :scratch:
Superb, highly recommended for the OpAmp rollers out there. :)
Covenant
29-09-2009, 14:48
Gaz, Stans comment about different versions of the Wolfson chip is interesting. Did you say Dave was getting the 2132 op-amps as well? If this is the case and he likes them as much as we do then it may well point to the chip that we got installed at the same time.
Gaz, Stans comment about different versions of the Wolfson chip is interesting. Did you say Dave was getting the 2132 op-amps as well? If this is the case and he likes them as much as we do then it may well point to the chip that we got installed at the same time.
Hi Jerry,
Got my 2132s this morning - I was going to get on with something else but in view of your and Gaz's enthusiasm, and the fact that you and I at least were equally enthusiastic about Mike's mid-range cable, I think I'll do some rolling tonight - should have something to report by the weekend if I leave it running overnight for a couple of nights. Don't think my MC5/6 are snipped yet (sounds like a vasectomy don't it :lol: ), but I'll have a look tonight - if not it should enable me to identify them ready for snipping later as I don't want to take an irreversible (for me) step until I'm sure that it's really needed.
Regarding Stan's comment, perhaps he and Jimmy could compare notes and comment further?
Cheers,
Covenant
29-09-2009, 16:06
Great stuff Dave,
You should immediately notice more bass and soundstaging should improve too.
Dont forget to use an anti-static wrist strap. :doh:
Great stuff Dave,
You should immediately notice more bass and soundstaging should improve too.
Dont forget to use an anti-static wrist strap. :doh:
Hi Jerry'
Im an old hand, in every sense of the word, at component rolling with PCs so I've got 3 anti-static wrist bands somwhere, so don't expect any problems, but thanks for the reminder :) .
Cheers,
Originally Posted by Covenant
I'm with Gaz on this one. A very natural sound to my ears with the 2132 installed.
And I'm with both of you, so that makes three of us - actually it's four, but more of that later.
Swapped out op-amps and relaced both of them with today's delivery of 2132s (after managing to position one with 4 pins in their sockets and 4 tucked down the outside . Fortunately I noticed it before putting lid down 'cos it didn't sit flat).
Replaced lid and coupled everything up, switched on and got two blue LEDs - result #1. Powered everything else up and got a reassuring 'burp' from both speakers when amp cut in - result #2. Pressed 'Play' on foobar and got music from both speakers - result #3. Now to listen .
Based on 30 to 45 mins, straight out of the anti-static packing, it's different and it's better different. I'm not just reading from Jerry and Gaz's script, honest, but the bass is sharper (cleaner, less blurred edges and 'tweren't bad before, but better now). It might also be a touch louder for the same volume setting but not by much. Everything sounds clearer somehow, difficult to explain but listening to the orchestral intro to 'Zadok the Priest' the separation of the instruments was more noticeable. I suspect that vocals are slightly more distinct but that aspect is less obvious to my ears. (Added later after further listening: - don't know whether it's a recognised audiophile adjective but 'sweeter' comes to mind, sort of easier to listen to, not that it was difficult before - is 'less tiring' the proper phrase?
I think it will take a longer listen and a longer burn in to properly assess any effects on sounstage width and/or depth, but as I think I may have an amp problem on the left channel perhaps this is not surprising. I'm going to post an appeal for help on this later.
Now to the fourth vote in favour. Sue, (Bose is best), happened to be sitting in the prime listening position for the first 15 to 20 minutes after firing it up volunteered, without any prompting from me, "Sounds nice, your system" - now that's what I call a result!! .
I'll leave it running overnight for a couple of nights and report back later.
BTW Cap 5/6 snipping ain't bin dun yet so maybe there's more to come.
Cheers,
PS. Posted this earlier on a different thread but it may get read more often here, where it should be perhaps.
Gaz, Stans comment about different versions of the Wolfson chip is interesting. Did you say Dave was getting the 2132 op-amps as well? If this is the case and he likes them as much as we do then it may well point to the chip that we got installed at the same time.
What were Stans comments Jerry?
*EDIT* Found on other thread.
I notice some folks (Leo mainly) said the 2132's gave a muddy sound compared to the 4562's.
This is practically the opposite to how I found the OpAmps to sound.
I thought that was a wee bit odd actually?
Why odd?
The one I have is pretty old, before the lead free fiasco (ROHS) came out.
If this makes enough difference I can't say yet but will order a new ROHS version from Farnell to be sure
Why odd?
The one I have is pretty old, before the lead free fiasco (ROHS) came out.
If this makes enough difference I can't say yet but will order a new ROHS version from Farnell to be sure
Hey Leo,
I just thought "odd" as it was quite the opposite to my findings is all. :)
Stan said something about the Wolfsen Dac chip coming in different flavours.
Dont know about that but three of us here had our 7520 modded by Tirna at the same time: so its fair to say we have the same Dac chip.
We all found a similar improvement too.
Dont know how relevent that actually is, but when I saw yours (and other) comments on the 2132 being "muddy" in comparison to the 4562 I just wondered how anyone could say that - I've found the improvement over the 4562 to be obvious.
Something in this Dac chip version schenanigans maybe? :confused:
Funny old game eh:) I got the WM8716 from Farnell
Batch code on the dac chip is 69ABVMB
I've just fitted the OPA2132 in the separate headphone amp and tried the Sabre dac, either this op-amp is dodgy or I just don't like it:mental:
I'll carry on using the LM4562 until a new 2132 arrives
StanleyB
30-09-2009, 01:38
You got the WM8716EDS and the WM816SEDS.
Yes, the one I got from Farnell is stamped WM8716SEDS same as here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=41303&postcount=345
Lead free version of OPA2132 on the way:)
Shanedudddy2
30-09-2009, 08:13
Just chucked in 2132 opamp in, bass actually has more than 1 tone like with the 4562, seems more balanced, will report back once i listen more :)
Well bass isn't as boomy, its a bit brighter but still a bit shouty in the upper mids with busy music
I'll leave in to give a good run in
Oh also going to give the OPA2107 another go
I seem to remember OPA2111 wasn't bad either so will give that a go
OPA2132 will be stuck in HA socket to give it plenty of run in
Nothing like fiddling with your op-amps:eyebrows:
Nothing like fiddling with your op-amps:eyebrows:
Or your post count stats, with three in a row, hey Leo?! ;)
Or your post count stats, with three in a row, hey Leo?! ;)
The look on your little uns face says it all:lol:
Covenant
03-10-2009, 15:42
Well bass isn't as boomy, its a bit brighter but still a bit shouty in the upper mids with busy music
I'll leave in to give a good run in
Hi Leo
Any further thoughts after running in? It occurred to me that what I perceive as presence may be what you describe 'as shouty in the upper mids'.
Hi Leo
Any further thoughts after running in? It occurred to me that what I perceive as presence may be what you describe 'as shouty in the upper mids'.
Evening:) Bass still not boomy, its gone a little brighter but still remains shouty in the upper mids with complex or busy music
Covenant
04-10-2009, 10:43
Oh well, all the more of an excuse to look for new op-amps ! :)
Evening:) Bass still not boomy, its gone a little brighter but still remains shouty in the upper mids with complex or busy music
Hi Guys,
Don't know whether this is the right place to post this or to start a separate thread but here goes:
Up to this morning Ive been very happy with the sounds that my Caimanised 7520 with 2 x OPA2132 op-amps swapped in but ....
this morning we bought Ms Streisand's latest CD (part of my master plan to convert my wife from Bose to hi-fi ;) ), and stuck it on the player. Beautiful sounds all round EXCEPT a really boomy bass - certainly not heard it before so must (?) be the CD, yes?
Has anyone tried listening to this CD (if you don't mind admitting it :lol: ), and have you noticed the boomy bass?
Cheers,
Covenant
04-10-2009, 12:56
Your best listening to your favourite J.M.Jarre as a test Dave. There will always be CD's that grate on your nerves because of poor recording techniques. In my case I can't play X & Y by Coldplay because of sibilence.
Jerry,
it's all opinion remeber :)
At first I ran the 2132 with the existing 4562 in the hphone amp socket.
Sounded great once ran in a few days.
Never thought to try the other 2132 in the Hpa socket, and i'm happier with that than the 4562.
Can be system dependant I guess?
I'm listening to Bat out of hell just now, with it's harsh "goes up to 11" production and screaming guitar solo's and "Shouty" is the last thing Id describe it as?
Smooth but inciscive treble, lots of "thwack" on drums, all very well separated and playing in it's own space.
Great!!
I put the 4562s back in place just to sanity check the improvements and yup, a lot less bass, less focussed soundstage - more hifi sounding at the expense of the song getting through.
That said, the price of these Opamps are so cheap it's good fun to try them all.
I've tried a few now and the 2132s make music in a way that works for me.
Your best listening to your favourite J.M.Jarre as a test Dave. There will always be CD's that grate on your nerves because of poor recording techniques. In my case I can't play X & Y by Coldplay because of sibilence.
Cheers Jerry,
Yep, that makes sense - I'll give JMJ CD a spin tonight.
Gaz, I've got two 2132s installed and, Streisand notwithstanding, I LURV what I'm hearing. :gig:
Cheers and thanks,
Of course its all down to personal taste and fun comparing.
For me the OPA2132 had to go, hated the bleeding thing in all honesty but at least I gave it a go, compare this dac with OPA2132 against the Sabre dac tells me straight away somethings not right
Just remember LM4562 cannot drive capacitive loads very well, 16% over shoot into 100pf, some cables etc can be higher than average capacitance:)
Hi guys, particularly Jerry,
Just spun JMJ Oxygene CD and it sounds bloody good to me. There is definitely more bass there than I remember and it might be just a tad too much if I played lots of similar bass line stuff continuously, but at the moment I think I can probably live with it and maintain a smile on my face. Certainly nothing like as boomy as the Streisand CD. I guess this means I'm not looking for any more bass at the moment so snipping CLP(?) 5 and 6 may not get done.
Don't tell Marco 'cos he'll insist that my Techie is not set up properly but, based on what I've just heard I prefer the CD version of Oxygene to my LP version, which says a lot for the Caimanised 7520 + 2 x OPA2132s (and Mike Homar's co-ax cable - mustn't forget that by jove!!)
Edit:
I've just turned down the volume a little, 'cos it was a bit too loud, and the bass has fallen back in line - nice one - happy bunny I am, very! Soundstage width and depth as good as I've heard it on my set up. :gig:
Cheers,
Your best listening to your favourite J.M.Jarre as a test Dave. There will always be CD's that grate on your nerves because of poor recording techniques. In my case I can't play X & Y by Coldplay because of sibilence.
I love J.M.Jarre, been to see him live a few times too, got to admit though his music usually sounds good on anything
I normally like to use a range of stuff for testing
Covenant
04-10-2009, 19:08
Hi guys, particularly Jerry,
Just spun JMJ Oxygene CD and it sounds bloody good to me. There is definitely more bass there than I remember and it might be just a tad too much if I played lots of similar bass line stuff continuously, but at the moment I think I can probably live with it and maintain a smile on my face. Certainly nothing like as boomy as the Streisand CD. I guess this means I'm not looking for any more bass at the moment so snipping CLP(?) 5 and 6 may not get done.
Don't tell Marco 'cos he'll insist that my Techie is not set up properly but, based on what I've just heard I prefer the CD version of Oxygene to my LP version, which says a lot for the Caimanised 7520 + 2 x OPA2132s (and Mike Homar's co-ax cable - mustn't forget that by jove!!)
Edit:
I've just turned down the volume a little, 'cos it was a bit too loud, and the bass has fallen back in line - nice one - happy bunny I am, very! Soundstage width and depth as good as I've heard it on my set up. :gig:
Cheers,
Dave,
In my opinion snipping MCL5/6 does not increase bass but makes it better controlled. As I have mentioned before my system can very easily become boomy. I dont seem to experience this, even with 2132's installed since doing this mod. Ask around but I think its a worthwile upgrade.
I love J.M.Jarre, been to see him live a few times too, got to admit though his music usually sounds good on anything
I normally like to use a range of stuff for testing
Hi Leo,
Thanks for your input and support for JMJ - after the last time I mentioned his name on the forum I thought I might be the only guy here that appreciated him - welcome to the club (of two !!).
Don't know whether you've read the earlier posts (forgive me if you have) but Jerry suggested listening to JMJ 'cos he knows I'm very familiar with how it should sound as I had mentioned that my set up appeared to have developed a boomy bass when playing Streisand's new CD. I now know the CD is faultier than my set up.
Cheers,
Dave,
In my opinion snipping MCL5/6 does not increase bass but makes it better controlled. As I have mentioned before my system can very easily become boomy. I dont seem to experience this, even with 2132's installed since doing this mod. Ask around but I think its a worthwile upgrade.
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for that - when I posted it I actually wondered whether my memory was playing tricks on me, but I was too idle to check back through the posts :doh: . In view of what you've said I'll maybe reconsider the MCL5/6 'vasectomy' but not until I've got a good grasp on what the 7520 gives me currently.
Cheers,
Covenant
04-10-2009, 19:33
Of course its all down to personal taste and fun comparing.
For me the OPA2132 had to go, hated the bleeding thing in all honesty but at least I gave it a go, compare this dac with OPA2132 against the Sabre dac tells me straight away somethings not right
Just remember LM4562 cannot drive capacitive loads very well, 16% over shoot into 100pf, some cables etc can be higher than average capacitance:)
Well the Sabre is the pinnacle I suppose, so its good to have it used as a comparison.Would a factor why three of use like the 2132 so much be that we all have Mikes cables?
Looking forward to finding out if there is any more good op-amps to try. Have you considered any of the discrete ones?
Thanks for your input and support for JMJ - after the last time I mentioned his name on the forum I thought I might be the only guy here that appreciated him - welcome to the club (of two !!)
Make that a club of 3! ;)
Of course its all down to personal taste and fun comparing.
For me the OPA2132 had to go, hated the bleeding thing in all honesty but at least I gave it a go, compare this dac with OPA2132 against the Sabre dac tells me straight away somethings not right
Just remember LM4562 cannot drive capacitive loads very well, 16% over shoot into 100pf, some cables etc can be higher than average capacitance:)
Thanks for the feedback Leo, I won't bother wasting money and time on the TI version.
Well the Sabre is the pinnacle I suppose, so its good to have it used as a comparison.Would a factor why three of use like the 2132 so much be that we all have Mikes cables?
Looking forward to finding out if there is any more good op-amps to try. Have you considered any of the discrete ones?
The cable you use on the analogue output will have an affect on how the opamp performs. There are loads of others to try if you like the 2132 then try the 2604... I have a list somewhere that Leo sent me ages ago, I'll see if I can find it tomorrow.
Hi Leo,
Thanks for your input and support for JMJ - after the last time I mentioned his name on the forum I thought I might be the only guy here that appreciated him - welcome to the club (of two !!).
Don't know whether you've read the earlier posts (forgive me if you have) but Jerry suggested listening to JMJ 'cos he knows I'm very familiar with how it should sound as I had mentioned that my set up appeared to have developed a boomy bass when playing Streisand's new CD. I now know the CD is faultier than my set up.
Cheers,
Why is the CD faulty? It could be there is more low bass on the Streisland CD and your setup with 2132 is incapable of reproducing it properly...if the bass becomes more controlled with the volume turned down then that indicates to me a problem somewhere....IE the 2132 ;) or you may have an issue elsewhere.... I find the 2132 has a similar effect in my system.....
Why is the CD faulty? It could be there is more low bass on the Streisland CD and your setup with 2132 is incapable of reproducing it properly...if the bass becomes more controlled with the volume turned down then that indicates to me a problem somewhere....IE the 2132 ;) or you may have an issue elsewhere.... I find the 2132 has a similar effect in my system.....
Hi Neal,
Thanks for your input - must admit that I never thought of that possibility :doh: :doh: . On the evidence that I "may have a issue elswhere" would you be able to hazard a guess as to the best place to start looking?
Having thought about it a bit more I'm not sure that it really matters if it is only the Streisand CD that I have a problem with - I am not a big bass freak, enough is nice (very desirable) but too much is to be avoided, so if my system fails to reproduce the very low bass, which doesn't seem to occur too often, I can live with it quite happily.
I would also say that I have not had the same boomy bass problem with any of my other sources (2 x TTs, 1 multi purpose Blu-ray Player (on which I've played Kodo Drummers DVD), 1 multipurpose DVD player, 1 Marantz CD-63 MkII player, 1 multimedia Vaio PC and 1 Sky HD box.
Cheers,
Well the Sabre is the pinnacle I suppose, so its good to have it used as a comparison.Would a factor why three of use like the 2132 so much be that we all have Mikes cables?
Looking forward to finding out if there is any more good op-amps to try. Have you considered any of the discrete ones?
The 2132 works great with other cables too, I'm using an NVA super Sound Pipe.
Sounds great! :)
Ah, found it...not so much a list but some recommendations made by Leo back in 2005(!) when I was modding an MF X-Act... :doh: Intermixed with what we know already we have:
OPA2132(!), 2604, 2111, AD826, OP275 then we have our LM4562 and also the OPA2107 (gets good write ups) and AD8066....
Covenant
05-10-2009, 20:35
I would like to try the OPA2107 but it appears to need an adapter so I assume that means it needs an extra capacitor. Too much hassle methinks....
OPA2107 is available as 8pin DIL so is a straight fit;)
Ah, found it...not so much a list but some recommendations made by Leo back in 2005(!) when I was modding an MF X-Act... :doh: Intermixed with what we know already we have:
OPA2132(!), 2604, 2111, AD826, OP275 then we have our LM4562 and also the OPA2107 (gets good write ups) and AD8066....
Bloomin heck, that was ages ago:lol:
Think we learned a bit more since then:eyebrows:
Covenant
06-10-2009, 07:05
OPA2107 is available as 8pin DIL so is a straight fit;)
So it is! Do you think its worth paying extra for Burr Brown over TI Leo? Burr Brown is a lot dearer but still a cheap upgrade.
I couldn't say for sure which would be better mate, they should be same but as we know isn't always the case.
Its no longer Burr Brown, its taken over by Texas instruments , the Burr Brown stamped ones will be older and probably leaded where as the TI ones will probably be lead free
Its possible you pay less for one with TI in the description but the chip may be stamped BB:)
Going by the OPA2132 I found the leaded version to sound smoother but boomier in the bass, if this applies to the OPA2107 I dunno tbh :confused:
They may sound the same, the OPA2107 I have is BB stamped in white and definitely leaded
I'll pop it back in and let it run for a few days, currently have OPA2111 which was sounding nice but went bass light over a few days :doh:
BTW I have an original philips NE5532AN which I'm going to compare against the NE5532P which was fitted in the 7520
Speaking of the NE5532P....
Someone in the thread mentioned the OP2132 with the NE5532P in the HPA socket as making his system sound the "best balanced" he'd heard.
Got curious (as I do) and tried it yesterday. OP1232 in Line Out, NE5532P in HPA.
Very very good actually - smoother but better projected vocals than with the 2132 in HPA. Also, the speakers seem to shift more air than they did before at lower volumes?
A bit more gutsy sounding.
Good stuff, going to keep em in for a wee while, let my ears get used to the "improvement" :)
Jerry, recommend you try it, see what you think?
Gary.
Covenant
06-10-2009, 17:17
Blimey the 5532? Was that the one in the original 7520? I want elusive exotica me. :lol:
Don't be too quick to judge the old 5532;) it may not be the quietest , fastest highest bandwidth etc but it can drive loads well , actually not a bad little performer if used within its limits
I'm finding the Philips 5532AN sounds quite different to the TI 5532P:)
Blimey the 5532? Was that the one in the original 7520? I want elusive exotica me. :lol:
I'm telling you Jerry - give it a try, might surprise you.
Perhaps theres a LITTLE less bass depth, but the improvements elsewhere mean you might not even care.
Theres some alchemy going on with the Dac and these opamps...Who'd have thunk the HPA would affect the Line out so much? :scratch:
Just a random thought....would the Dac work on Line out if there wasn't an OpAmp in the Headphone socket?
I'm thinking that as the sound is so dependant on whats in the other socket....what would it be like when there is NO other OpAmp to affect it?
(Assuming it works in the first place?)
Could try it, but I've dismantled my Dac so ofter recently I want a rest! :)
You hit the nail on the head there Gaz, there's definitely some alchemy going on here, possibly black magic even.
Just been trying your recommendations after receiving some 2132 op-amps in the post yesterday.
My first impressions of the 2132 are very good. Beautifully lush midrange, vocals are gorgeous and projected right out in front of you and a lovely sweet and smooth treble.. But oh, that bass.. It's overpowering and it's ruining everything else...
Then I remembered that I still had the MLC5/6 mod in from a few weeks back, i.e. replaced MLC5/6 with 100nf/33KOhm resistor pair which was done to augment the bass on the 4562 (I still have a 4562 in the headphone socket at this point by the way). So I took the cap/resistor out of the circuit and things were a little better in the bass, but also it seemed to lose some of the lushness in the midrange too.
So, onto Gaz's recommendation, I put the 5532 into the headphone op-amp socket and sure enough, the bass is back under control and there's still that lovely three dimensionality and projection of vocals into the room. However... The first thing I noticed was that piano now sounds metallic, things are a lot brighter and the whole thing sounds somewhat more 'digital' to my ears.
Next up, I took out the 5532 and put in a 2107. I ordered a couple of 2107s for the 7520 pre-Wolfson DAC and didn't get on with it at all, but decided that it was worth a try as so many things had changed since.. Well, I'm rather glad I did as it's coming out as current favourite...
Now I am trying to decide which chip is best in which socket... With the 2132 in the line out and the 2107 in the headphone, it retains that soundstage you can walk around, well projected vocals and deep but well controlled bass, but is still a little bright, but swap the chips around and treble becomes much sweeter, bass is still bang on (possibly even slightly better) but the three dimensionality is lost and it's more of a wall of sound - sounds almost like a piece of Naim kit in fact.
One thing is for sure though, the 2132 stays. If there was a way of curtailing the bass with the 4562 in the headphone socket then I think that would be the best of all worlds, but the 2107, for now is a very good compromise.
..Ah yes, before I forget, to answer your question Gaz.
Yes, you can run without an op-amp in the headphone socket. Try taking your 5532 out and see what you think. I thought it sounded better than with the 5532 in, but I've suddenly grown quite partial to a spot of late night headphone listening after discovering recently just how good the headphone amp in the Caiman is.
Covenant
07-10-2009, 12:19
Great stuff chaps-I will try the 5532 in the HPA tonight (if I can find it). One thing I really like and would hate to lose is that expansive soundstage that the 2132 creates. The 2107 sounds interesting. I may order one.
Cheers Rich.
Yeah its a bit of a minefield this opamp malarky - what makes it worse (probably) is that they are probably system dependant too!
Didn't pick up from your first post....
Has your 7520 been fitted with the Wolfsen Dac chip?
If so, your Dacs the same as mine and your observations are even more interesting to me. :)
I'll try taking out the HPA Amp, see how I like that.
I do agree though, the 2132 is the best I've tried in the Line Out socket.
Soundstage is pretty amazing.
Just an update on my side, maybe someone finds it interesting. I eventually replaced the DAC chip with the Wolfson (great improvement, btw). The DAC sounds better than ever, it has moved up a class, I'd say.
Still using the 4562 on the HPA and until today the 4032 on the line out. Very much to my taste, the sound on the speakers. Very detailed, very precise. The lows though not quite plentiful, are controlled, the highs very much to my liking, can't detect any sibilance at all, but then again my Spendors are not exactly aggressive speakers, either.
Today I tried the AD826 on the line out. Not very pleased with the initial findings. The highs seem a touch more refined, but also more recessed than with the 4032, while the mids are sometimes better, most times worse (as in muddier) than with the 4032. I'm not quite sure what to think, I'll give it a bit more time see if anything changes, but to me it seemed the instruments were a lot better separated with the 4032, some pieces, particularly heavily populated music, now sound a bit muddy, it's like the sounds are bleeding into each other, if I'm making any sense here.
Haven't tried getting back to 4562 on the line-out yet. Can someone please remind me what the MLC5/6 mod was supposed to do, apart from better bass? I seem to recall the mod was recommended for both op-amps 4562, is that correct?
Sometimes I do wonder why I'm faffing about with the DAC so much, once I found the sound I like. The answer I give myself is that I do it because some of the changes have brought a degree of improvement I would not have thought possible, so I keep hoping the wonder will happen once again. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. But still, for the extra money, the improvement is nothing short of amazing from the stock product, which in itself is quite a remarkable piece of kit.
StanleyB
07-10-2009, 13:55
Is anyone saving up to buy a new amp or set of speakers since buying a Caiman:scratch:?
The opamp I prefer to use is the NE5532FE, which was also fitted as stock item to the legendary Philips CD960 and Marantz CD94 CD players. They are ceramic chips, compared to the more common can or plastic cased opamps. They seem to match my system quite well.
Is anyone saving up to buy a new amp or set of speakers since buying a Caiman:scratch:?
Err, yes, I am :) Except I didn't buy a Caiman, I bought a 7520 ;)
Stan,
I know I wont be upgrading my Source again.
TWEAKING it yeah,;) but FLACs/Squeezebox played thorugh my Beresfords as good as I'm ever gonna need.
Better rewards spending money elsewhere, where I'm sure the Dac will sound even better.
G.
Err, yes, I am :) Except I didn't buy a Caiman, I bought a 7520 ;)
Alexxus,
this might mean nowt to you :) , but your Avatar...is that a ZBrush sculpt?
Better rewards spending money elsewhere, where I'm sure the Dac will sound even better.
Yep, amp and speakers. To use the DAC to better advantage :)
Sorry Gaz, our posts crossed. Not sure what the avatar is, I think I picked it up from the cover of some graphics software. I just liked the way it looks, great upper body there, innit?
Great stuff chaps-I will try the 5532 in the HPA tonight (if I can find it). One thing I really like and would hate to lose is that expansive soundstage that the 2132 creates. The 2107 sounds interesting. I may order one.
Jerry,
also try the 2132 on its own WITHOUT an opamp in the Headphone socket.
That might surprise you too, I perceived a difference between 2132/5532 and 2123 on its own.
It sounds even better to me, soundstage more 3d and solid.
Its more "direct" sounding...
Gaz.
Covenant
07-10-2009, 14:18
[QUOTE=StanleyB;70697]Is anyone saving up to buy a new amp or set of speakers since buying a Caiman:scratch:?
Yes Stan, I think the amplifier is the weak part of my system despite sounding very good. I thought about valves but decided against them at the moment. I want to get monoblock Class D amp made for me once I have decided which manufacturer to buy from. Not the sort of thing you can demo so very much opinion based.
Ooops, sorry Gaz, and everyone. I'm probably in the wrong thread as I'm performing these experiments on my Caiman. My 7520 is also Wolfsoned but has been filtered down to another system so doesn't get my full undivided attention these days.
Well, it's funny Eddie should mention the 4032, as I've just dug mine out. It's not been used for a while and I don't think I'd tried it in the Caiman before. From memory I don't think it was compatible with the MLC5/6 mods, but I thought I'd give it a go anyway, and yes, without MLC5/6 in place, although very nice, there's something not right about it. It's just a touch unnatural with a bit of an edge.
... That was until I popped the 100nf/33K pairs back in.. Now we're cooking on gas. A 4032 in the line out socket, and a 2132 in the headphone socket. I think I've struck gold but it's a bit early to say for sure yet. I'll report back after a couple hours more listening, plus I'm also mindful that this 100nf/33K value is optimised for the 4562 - This was the reason for my trip to Maplin this morning - A couple of SIL sockets so that I can try some different values.
I'll be back..
Now we're cooking on gas. :lol:
Gaz got it right about the opamp rolling getting crazy. But then again, it's a lot of fun too, innit? I gotta get a 100nF cap and a handful of resistors now and get crackin', see what else I can get out of it :eyebrows:
Don't get me started on amps. But yes. I hate choosing amplifiers.
It took me ages to get the last lot sorted out. Luckily, at the time I was still doing a Saturday job at Sevenoaks so could audition plenty. I was perfectly happy with my John Shearne Phase 2 ref before it blew up. I had a set of MF A3 pre and power amps on loan whilst it was away for repair which really didn't work with my Shahinian Arcs at all, but then strangely when the A3.2 was released they worked very well and I ended up with those (after going through a pile of other amps in the meantime).
I guess that ultimately Dynavector is the logical choice for the Arcs, but they never seem to be around when I've got the money spare for them.
On the other hand, the amps have a new lease of life by virtue of the fact that I completely dismantled and rebuilt the system the other day and by some ruthless discarding of some cabling (I won't mention the culprits names *cough* Supra mains cables *cough*) the amps are sounding pretty damned fine again.
Sorry Gaz, our posts crossed. Not sure what the avatar is, I think I picked it up from the cover of some graphics software. I just liked the way it looks, great upper body there, innit?
I asked cos I do that stuff meself :)
Not bad, nothing compared to mine though. :mental:
at the time I was still doing a Saturday job at Sevenoaks so could audition plenty.
Where can I get signed up for one of those? lol
Yeah, difficult stuff picking up the amp. Mind you, it's about as difficult picking up the right speakers for a certain amp. To your taste, that is.
Not bad, nothing compared to mine though
Yours as in your avatar, or your graphic work? Why don't you make me a nice one, I'll be proud to use it. No shit.
StanleyB
07-10-2009, 19:28
Gazjam did the original artwork for the TC-7510 MK6 and TC-7520 front panel out of interest. That's one of the reason why I laugh when people claimed I rebranded the DAC from someone else.
Great stuff. Seriously. And I was not joking about being proud of using his graphic work, I hope I was not creating wrong ideas here.
StanleyB
07-10-2009, 19:45
I have been commissioning work from Gazza for some time now, and he only let me down once.
Gawd, thanks Stan! :doh::)
Alexxus, as proud of my work as I am, I was meaning my super great upper body! :lolsign:
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(as if)
Gazjam did the original artwork for the TC-7510 MK6 and TC-7520 front panel out of interest. That's one of the reason why I laugh when people claimed I rebranded the DAC from someone else.
Raised a smile here too.......
especially when folks from one forum were quoting from another (all wrong info too) :)
Well, I spent practically all day yesterday trying out op-amp combinations and thought I'd reached a happy conclusion. I was using my old DVD player as a source at the time and after hours of listening was absolutely blown away by the sound using the THS4032 in the line out socket and the new 2132 in the headphone socket, also using 100nf/12KOhm combinations in the MLC 5/6 sockets. No matter what I played, it was thoroughly enjoyable and did not set a foot wrong. Then later in the evening I got my Macbook Pro back from work - my main source for digital audio and assuming the improvements would continue, I simply hooked it up and started playing tunes..
But what's this? It's flat, boring and lifeless. The treble is a mess, the bass has sunk way down in the mix. It's just completely musically uninteresting. Oh!
So it would seem that the 4032/2132 combination is the best for the DVD player, but in order to get the Mac to sound that good the 2132 returns to the lineout socket and the 4562 to the headphone socket - keeping the 100nf/12K pairs in place which seems to help the wayward bass somewhat in this combination.
I'm speechless at how much difference the source makes, and that's using the same interconnect too!
Covenant
08-10-2009, 19:38
I think I am starting to have second thoughts about the 2132. Its bass, although well controlled is too heavy. I noticed this tonight listening to vocals. Its like you have a loudness control on (remember them?). Its a shame really because it ticks so many boxes. Probably in a bigger room or with standmounts it would be fine but its just a bit too much for me.
Tried the 5532 in the HPA Gaz but didnt notice much difference.
So which op-amp to try next?
Well, I tried listening to the AD826 again today, but after going through 4-5 different genres of music, most of 'em well recorded (SHM or MSFL versions), I just gave up and chucked it away, popped the old 4032 in instead. Damn, it sounds good :harp:, I love my B-DAC.
For some reason, dunno if its opamp interaction or I just hated the way line out sounded with AD826, but last night it seemed to me the HPA sounded best (with the AD826 in line out and the 4562 in the headphones out, just to remind everybody). Whatever it was, since I use it as source just as much as an HPA, I'll live perfectly happy with the way it is now, with the 4032 on line out.
I was expecting more from the AD826, after all it was the most expensive opamp of the lot, but it was the most disappointing. For a while I'll just enjoy the music, when I get restless again I'll start on the caps & resistors game :)
I think I am starting to have second thoughts about the 2132. Its bass, although well controlled is too heavy. I noticed this tonight listening to vocals. Its like you have a loudness control on (remember them?). Its a shame really because it ticks so many boxes. Probably in a bigger room or with standmounts it would be fine but its just a bit too much for me.
Tried the 5532 in the HPA Gaz but didnt notice much difference.
So which op-amp to try next?
Jerry,
have a go at using the 2132 in the Line out WITHOUT any Opamp in the HeadAmp socket.
I found it cleared the bottom end up a bit, might impact on the bass problems your having?
This way is the best I've heard yet - of any opamp combination, so give it a whirl at least!
* PUTTING AN IDEA OUT TO THE OPAMP ROLLERS OUT THERE *
Theres a lot more people into changing the Opamps in their Dac, and all have different combinations which work for them.
I think it would be great to have a sticky in the forum with everyone pitching in what they are running in their Dac and why they like it?
Just a wee comment maybe, "Good bass and soundstaging" "Great soundstage" that kind of thing?
Its getting difficult to keep up with what everyones tried, their preferences etc, just think this would be a cool thing to be able to refer to?
Gaz.
Perhaps, also, a side-by-side comparison would be nice if some of you live near by and are able to organize something like this. It would be really nice to read your impressions, too.
Perhaps, also, a side-by-side comparison would be nice if some of you live near by and are able to organize something like this. It would be really nice to read your impressions, too.
Good call!
Be good for the Social aspect too?
Nice idea Gaz but maybe a bit pointless as results will be system / Room / Ear / music taste dependent...
Nice idea Gaz but maybe a bit pointless as results will be system / Room / Ear / music taste dependent...
Yeah I hear you, but wouldn't it be good to know what other people are runing in their Dacs anyway?
Its becoming obvious that theres so many factors which affect the sound of the Dac, would be good maybe to have a "database" to refer to - even if just as a guide and not a rulebook?
Just my £0.02 worth anyways :)
Or you can always read the 140 pages or so of this thread and you'll find out :D
Covenant
09-10-2009, 10:52
Nice of you to volunteer Gaz! :lol:
Covenant
09-10-2009, 12:13
Tried it without the 5532 in the HPA. A small improvement I think but I still feel like the bass is turned up too much.
Just as an experiment I will try the 4562 in the line and the 2132 in the HPA.
God I hate these numbers. Can we call them Fred or Joe or something like that?
Tried it without the 5532 in the HPA. A small improvement I think but I still feel like the bass is turned up too much.
Just as an experiment I will try the 4562 in the line and the 2132 in the HPA.
God I hate these numbers. Can we call them Fred or Joe or something like that?
When your doing the Excel spreadsheet for us AOS'ers Jerry, you can call them what you want?
;)
God I hate these numbers. Can we call them Fred or Joe or something like that?
Yeah... Ruth is stranger than Richard ! :lolsign:
Tried it without the 5532 in the HPA. A small improvement I think but I still feel like the bass is turned up too much.
Just as an experiment I will try the 4562 in the line and the 2132 in the HPA.
God I hate these numbers. Can we call them Fred or Joe or something like that?
I have a strong feeling that you won't like the 4562 in the line and the 2132 in the HPA. How do I know? I tried it:) In that setup the LM4562 has bass but the mids and highs, while present and accounted for, just don't inspire. It's all there but so what?
Gazjam's recommendation of OPA2132 in the line out and nothing in the HA really improved things for me. That sweet mid to high became a wee bit brighter.....just what I needed.
Again the OPA2132 has seduce me into "sitting down and enjoying the music."
My system is so close ...I still have a small urge for a little more Oomph in the bottom end.
My dilemna now is that I could get that Oomph back if I re-configure my system such that I use the pre-amp in my Yamaha integrated rather than using the TC-7520 as my pre-amp. What stops me from doing that is that when the 7520 is my pre-amp, the music is so much more alive. It's like, wow, so THAT's what my mid-range and tweeter can do. Unfortunately with that setup the bass or bottom end takes a very small step backward.
Decisions, decisions:confused:
CD
Anyone done any reading, or indeed tried out any of the projects from the 'lampizator' website? (www.lampizator.eu).
I'd been reading this page in particular:http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/FETISHIZATOR/fetishizator.html
Especially the bit about building a single transistor based output stage into an 8-pin op-amp socket. It all sounds thoroughly intriguing. Unfortunately, I'm away for the weekend, so it will have to wait, but I'm thinking about this as a little project over the next couple of weeks.
On a separate note and having spent the train journey from Swindon to Cardiff this morning reading his amazing website, I was reading the bits on repairing CD players and improving the sound from budget players, so when I got home, to my delight, my parents old Yamaha (actually my old Yamaha) CD player of almost 20 years had been dug out for use but was skipping. An hour later with my new knowledge I not only had it playing faultlessly again but sounding a load better too after snipping out the caps in the output stage. I'm quite chuffed!
technobear
16-10-2009, 07:54
There's a chap on the Wigwam selling a pair or THS4032 op amps for free plus postage.
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=25437&forum_id=5&jump_to=728282
Scroll down to the post by HectorHughMunro (#693)
I did the MLC mod a while back (which was a huge improvement), and have been trying different opamps again (mainly LM4562 and AD826) to see if they offered anything over the dual OPA2107 setup I was using. When I put both 4562's in I noticed they seemed to be a bit more precise with deep bass but a little timid at times, and after a while I couldn't stand the bad headphone driving capability so switched to AD826 on the headphone side. The 826 drives my Grado's possibly a little aggressive but works well.
I noticed though that the sound on the line out using the 4562 seemed to to working quite well, although I had been fiddling with speaker cables which may have biased the result slightly. Anyway recently I put a 2107 back in the headphone socket and I swear the line out doesn't sound as vibrant with this setup. It could well be ear and mood bias so intend to switch the AD826 back into the headphone socket to see if things improve.
roscoeiii
16-10-2009, 20:39
Lovejoy,
Some DAC makers seem to swear by a transistor output stage. I'd be very curious of the effect of this transistor op-amp replacement suggested on the Fet-ishizator page you linked to. Do I have the balls and skills to do this at present? No. But I find the idea very interesting...
ZebuTheOxen
24-10-2009, 15:24
I've just finished up putting the 100nf cap + 36k mod into a 'caimanised' 7520. I was using the 10pf caps before, whoops.
Initial impressions, the occasional breakup I was getting with the K701s has cleared up mostly.
Bass is firm and well presented. The very very top end is ever so slightly recessed (Triangles at the back of the auditorium kind of thing) but I feel these were slightly too prominent before.
The roar of guitars and full weight of instruments is back, without being overly fat or round sounding.
Overall, a worthwhile mod. The only thing I'm waiting for now is the Caiman PSU and I have a feeling that will be it... Maybe ;)
boomtheroom
26-10-2009, 17:58
ive got a LM4562na chip will it do the same job as a LM4562an?? also whats the difference between them? thanks
boomtheroom
26-10-2009, 18:04
also is there a step by step with pictures on how to do the op amp replacment? and anything else u need to install at the same time? cheers
ive got a LM4562na chip will it do the same job as a LM4562an?? also whats the difference between them? thanks
Dunno about no LM4562na. There is a LM4562HA, looks a little something like this
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Z1AwAGYvEtUiqM:http://media.digikey.com/photos/National%2520Semi%2520Photos/LM4562HA%255ENOPB.JPG
And then there's the LM4562NA, that looks like this
http://www.audioupgrades.co.uk/images/lm4562na.jpg
Basically, they do the same thing, there are divided opinions as to which one's better, but with the NA there's less hassle changing them.
What you have to do is take the cover out, spot the opamps (which are at the top somewhere around the area where the headphones out socket is). Gingerly take the opamp out and stick the replacement in, just as gently, without bending its legs. There's quite a few pics around in this thread, check pages 35-40, I think that's where you can find some of them, as well as explanations.
The little round indentation marks pin no.1 and should be top right corner as you look at the front of the DAC.
boomtheroom
27-10-2009, 05:14
does anyone know what the letter on the end mean? ie is a lm4562 chipwith different end letters all the same?
ZebuTheOxen
27-10-2009, 15:23
The only ones that will go into the 7520 without adapters are the LM4562NA and LM4562HA.
It can mean different things for each make of chip, so you have to check the manufacturer's website / literature before you buy :)
boomtheroom
30-10-2009, 01:22
has anyone sonically compared the two opamps..can seem to find any comparisons..what your thoughts?
Stratmangler
30-10-2009, 01:33
has anyone sonically compared the two opamps..can seem to find any comparisons..what your thoughts?
It's somewhere here on one of the threads.
I fitted the SM version of the LM4562NA in my TC7510 and it sounds fan-bloody-tastic. IMHO of course.
Chris:)
boomtheroom
30-10-2009, 01:39
It's somewhere here on one of the threads.
I fitted the SM version of the LM4562NA in my TC7510 and it sounds fan-bloody-tastic. IMHO of course.
Chris:)
whats the sm version?
Stratmangler
30-10-2009, 01:47
whats the sm version?
Surface Mount.
Chris:)
boomtheroom
30-10-2009, 03:11
ive just ordered my caiman...when i get it i will be connecting it to my pioneer a400 amp in the dining room which is 10meters away from my computer,which houses all my lossless audio files what will be the best option for connection coaxal cable or usb for that distance ...??...
S/pdif co-axial for long lengths
boomtheroom
30-10-2009, 03:26
S/pdif co-axial for long lengths
optical or coaxal??
boomtheroom
30-10-2009, 03:27
any type of coax cable?
Shanedudddy2
04-11-2009, 05:24
Goin to try a No opamp mod, bypassing the opamp and straight to integrated amplifier, I wonder if it will work
boomtheroom
04-11-2009, 06:10
got my beresford today...nly problem is my amp in in the other room and about 10 meters of coax cable is between my computer spdif output and the dac...= lots of interference :-< any ideas for a fix?
StanleyB
04-11-2009, 07:09
Goin to try a No opamp mod, bypassing the opamp and straight to integrated amplifier, I wonder if it will work
I used to offer such a mod a few years back. However, the output from the PCM1716 is only 0.6Vrms. So you should connect the DAC's output to an AUX input on your amp. The WM8716 has a higher output at 1Vrms, which makes it a more attractive option.
Shanedudddy2
04-11-2009, 12:11
hmm I have both so will try both and report how they are stock, is there anyway to boost it perhaps,to make it work better, just curious, saw something in another page here..hmm Caimen PSU page maybe where someone had modded to use no opamps.
Something like this...with all outputs functional!
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=847&stc=1&d=1257366505
Shanedudddy2
04-11-2009, 21:20
If you could PLEASE please provide me in some moderate detail, piccies would be nice :) of what you did and where on the board I would be oh so thankful. ^_^
Also how does it sound in comparison to various opamps you have used?
Thanks
Now this is interesting....
Hi Lemon,
Can you still close the lid?
I recently put 2 discreet opamp and they stick out.
Shanedudddy2
05-11-2009, 00:58
which discreet?
are they an improvement?
Yes, I will give you any info about this, but forgive me for my "bad" english.
1) Yes, I can still close the lid
2) From the pdf of DAC, you find the Vout...they are to pin13 (R) & pin16(L). Then with a polymeter, find the appropriate points with the same signal on PCB...these are:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=851&stc=1&d=1257432933
3) From each point, put a MKP capacitor 2.2uF to RCA. I used the Solen (http://www.solen.ca/pdf/solen/fastcap.pdf)
4) Put a resistor between RCA(+) and RCA(-) for each RCA mount (I must find my notes for the value).
You ask me "How does it sound in comparison to various opamps I have used?"
Very well...there is no opamp to give me the same sound! And I have used the original 5532, the BB OPA2134 and the 4032.
Due, to lower Vrms output...1Vrms, you need to give more power to have the same level of sound - but the stereo image is more (left and right and up) and the voices are less compressed.
The next month, I will try to measure this direct output and I will give you the result.
I am not a technician, a hobbist-man only.
Shanedudddy2
06-11-2009, 03:13
Thanks, finding the resistor value would be great :)
Sound quality is most important ^_^, im suprised that u hadnt tried 4562 however
...
Due, to lower Vrms output...1Vrms, you need to give more power to have the same level of sound...
Forgive me the ≈1Vrms output is for Wolfson 8716 DAC not for 1716DAC.
Some technical about outputs for yours info (note= the DAC has changed with Wolfson 8716).
Direct Output L = VACrms 1.11 (1KHz sinus, 0 Dbfs)
Direct Output R = VACrms 1.11 (1KHz sinus, 0 Dbfs)
Fixed Output L = VACrms 2.32 (1KHz sinus, 0 Dbfs)
Fixed Output R = VACrms 2.34 (1KHz sinus, 0 Dbfs)
Variable Output (max) L = VACrms 2.32 (1KHz sinus, 0 Dbfs)
Variable Output (max) R = VACrms 2.33 (1KHz sinus, 0 Dbfs)
(measure has done with Fluke 45)
1 KHz sinus (the two signal has adapted (Volts), for comparison reasons)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=852&stc=1&d=1257529634
20 KHz sinus (the two signal has adapted (Volts), for comparison reasons)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=853&stc=1&d=1257529701
From ≥5KHz the two signals begin and different stages. The signal of direct output precedence over the label fixed (I do not know if I wrote correctly).
Can someone explain to us, for what reason happening?
Sweet Mary, nobody told me op-amps and the Wolfson chip where so small;)
Just received a bunch of op-amps like the Tirna "modified" THS4032CD, one LME49720HA and two LM4562NA's along with an Wolfson WM8716 DAC chip.
But to small for my fat fingers I have to admit, at least the DAC chip is:doh:
And thinking I thought about doing the Wolfson DAC chip myself, no way in the next 2000 years:)
Better just send my 7520 to Tirna to get this done...
Martijn
Covenant
12-11-2009, 17:38
Sweet Mary, nobody told me op-amps and the Wolfson chip where so small;)
Just received a bunch of op-amps like the Tirna "modified" THS4032CD, one LME49720HA and two LM4562NA's along with an Wolfson WM8716 DAC chip.
But to small for my fat fingers I have to admit, at least the DAC chip is:doh:
And thinking A thought about doing the Wolfson DAC chip myself, no way in the next 2000 years:)
Better just send my 7520 to Tirna to get this done...
Martijn
You wont be sorry-they know what they are doing.
You wont be sorry-they know what they are doing.
Sweet! Today I changed my fixed/variable op-amp with Tirna supplied THS4032CD model.
Man, what a difference! I could never have expected it to be so obvious;)
Deeper and more controlled bass, overall crisper sound, various instruments can now be distinguished from one anther and everything sounds more controlled.
Better sound stage, blablabla:smoking:
Fed my 7520 with some 24-bits 96KHz Vinyl Flac tune from my Macbook straight through optical from the output.
Put on some tunes from Tool, albums Undertow and Saliva.
Man what a sound, my system never sounded so good.
The music of both albums is filled with roaring bass, tiny little details, hauling guitars and at time sensitive and fragile vocals.
I really believe I now hear more of the details in the music, nice one!
The monster came allive today:)
Wonder what a Wolfson DAC upgrade would do:eyebrows:
Martijn
ZebuTheOxen
14-11-2009, 22:10
Very nice Cubeman! :eyebrows:
Today I popped down to Maplin and picked up some replacement capacitors (note: Do not use Tantalum caps for MCL 5 / 6, they sound awful) and picked up a 6-pin DIL socket.
6-pin DIL? Ohhhhh yes!
I chopped it in half with some wire cutter pliers, popped out the middle pin on both halves, trimmed the nasty bits, shortened the legs a tiny bit and soldered the remaining two legs into the MCL 5 + 6 positions.
I can now swap caps / resistors in these positions much more easily :)
Sound is unaffected, and significantly improved having swapped out the Tantalum caps.
I got the suggestion for the socket from another thread, thanks to whoever mentioned it - great idea! :smoking:
I've got a bottle of Glenfiddich 18 y/o and my CD collection, a good kind of saturday night ;)
Very nice Cubeman! :eyebrows:
Today I popped down to Maplin and picked up some replacement capacitors (note: Do not use Tantalum caps for MCL 5 / 6, they sound awful) and picked up a 6-pin DIL socket.
6-pin DIL? Ohhhhh yes!
I chopped it in half with some wire cutter pliers, popped out the middle pin on both halves, trimmed the nasty bits, shortened the legs a tiny bit and soldered the remaining two legs into the MCL 5 + 6 positions.
I can now swap caps / resistors in these positions much more easily :)
Sound is unaffected, and significantly improved having swapped out the Tantalum caps.
I got the suggestion for the socket from another thread, thanks to whoever mentioned it - great idea! :smoking:
I've got a bottle of Glenfiddich 18 y/o and my CD collection, a good kind of saturday night ;)
Nice one ZebuTheOxen!
Been enjoying myself last saturday night with some great music, some Endradour 10y/o and Laphroaig Quarter Cask:cool:
Martijn
hi first post here
just purchased a beresford 7520 of ebay a few weeks ago . What a bit of kit!!!
it came with an uprated op amp which had never been installed . First impressions 'out of the box ' was good, it brigthened up my old marantnz cd52 mkii .
Being a bit of a tinkerer the lid was quickly removed and the new op amp installed (its the one with cap connected between pins 4-8) . To be fair this did take a bit to burn in but over all i think the bass and depth of the music has increased a good deal.
Today I changed alll the 100uF caps with better ones (nichon audio spec i think low esr etc.)and there has been a noticable difference straight away . All other caps will eventually be changed, even the 10000uf power cap , when time/funds/delivery permits.
next on the agenda will be installation of the wolfson dac chip, I ve got one on the way but with the xmas post crisis that could be a week or too!
eventually i hope to change the voltage regulators with some quieter versions, and either buy a new power supply or design one .
a little word on my system
my amp is a bob latino st70 valve amp
http://bob01605.50webs.com/
very nice the detail is amazing, bass response good too for a valve amp
the speakers are audio nirvana super 8's which I put in their 2.8mkii enclosure , these are about a 1m tall and have a effieceny of about 106dB/W, very clear very detailed VERY LOUD lowther replicas.
my cd player at the mo is a marantz cd52mkii but this will be upgraded very shortly to a phillips 950, which will get the lampizator treatment, and be used solely as a transport thanks to my beresford .
all my leads are home made using shielded satelite co-axial (well it has a bandwidth of 300MHz so audio or sp/dif should have no problems(it wipes the floor with some of my other 'dedicated audio ' leads which i payed a bit of money for) ,it also cuts down any magnetic interference).
All in all I can say although the beresford is the cheapest bit of kit in my setup it really really has brought the best out of the other elements and the ability to tinker with it really really has brought a smile to my face !!WOW
thanks
James
Covenant
28-11-2009, 20:16
You obvoiusly know what your doing James......
Are you planning to upgrade the power supply? Please keep us informed. With regard to the replacement parts you have fitted what sort of cost for components are you talking about?
therockst4r
28-11-2009, 21:46
James: I have replaced my opamps and some caps, and I agree that the improvements were very noticeable. I started with the 47uf caps rather than the 100uf ones though. Please keep us informed with your upgrades, as I am interested in doing similar tweaks.
Shanedudddy2
29-11-2009, 01:53
Have you guys at all modified the circuit board with the 2 opamps on them... seems like it would be a hard place to access and fix it back up...with the silicon all there, has anyone done that... or just left that alone?
Plan to do some capacitor mods myself, anyone think any resistor upgrades would be worthwhile too?
Beechwoods
29-11-2009, 17:47
a little word on my system
Hi James! Great first post :) It's great to have you aboard. Have you thought about posting some pics of your system over in the Gallery (http://theartofsound.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14)? Or some pics of your projects in the DIY Gallery (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1814)? It'd be interesting to see your stuff!
hi guys thanks very much,
so far the mods for the beresford have cost about £20/ 25 euro.
That includes the the wolfson , and all the 47uF and 100uF caps . The only reason I fitted the 100's first was because they arrrived in the post first from Switzerland, the 47's are coming from Hong kong so they are a week or two away still (thank goodness for flea-bay) . I really really want to change the big cap but as of yet can't justify the £15 +delivery from the Hi-fi collective shop.
The 100 caps have given the bass a lot more depth its almost too overpowering but i expect that to settle down after a week or so failing that I can always cheat and use the tone control (at least i know its there for any parties/if i want to piss the neighbours off )
I notice quite a few people here are using a maplin power supply I might be interested in this for a quick and easy route to better sound .The beresford has what i think are two voltage regulators and from what i can read i think they are 7810(don't quote me on this just had a quick look) or 10v the other may be a 5v one for the chips. This would make sense having a 12v supply as most voltage regulators need an input at least 2v above they're ouput. I'm not sure if the beresford uses the raw 12v dc from the supply to power any of its circuits , if it does it would be better to regulate this as well at the power supply.
I will take some photo's of my stuff and hopefully put them on the gallery, when I've found my way round the site.
Thanks guys once again .
I think the Maplin PSU only really benefits the 7510
therockst4r
30-11-2009, 06:46
Have you guys at all modified the circuit board with the 2 opamps on them... seems like it would be a hard place to access and fix it back up...with the silicon all there, has anyone done that... or just left that alone?
Plan to do some capacitor mods myself, anyone think any resistor upgrades would be worthwhile too?
I replaced all the caps on that board and swapped out the opamps with some THS4032CDs, but that is it. I think you will probably notice the cap upgrades more than resistor upgrades, but I could be mistaken.
The change of resistance does not improve the sound, there are good resistors inside to 7520, all are metal resistance.
If you want to improve your 7520 around the opamp, then:
1) If you do not use the variable output, remove the variable opamp.
2) certainly change the dac-chip with the Wolfson 8716 (the major change).
3) change the signal capacitors with other best.
4) note that bigger supply voltage affects only the operator of variable output, the fixed output opamp is fed constantly to 10V because of 7810.
5) Experimen with a supply of batteries. The battery is free from noise. The best solution is to 5V battery power directly to the digital part (without 7805) and the section of the opamp power battery 10V & 12V
Shanedudddy2
30-11-2009, 08:18
Do you have a picture of how you have implemented the battery aspect, you would remove the big input cap correct?
Don't remove the big input capacitor.
The series of input voltage is fisa->diode->current security (blue)->10000uF caps.
At first try to find a battery like 12V of UPS and then feed the 7520. How is it?
Then if you like it, remove the diode and current security (blue) or bypass them.
The best solution with batteries or only one battery is to feed each part of 7520 with the pure DC without the 7805 & 7810 voltage regulators.
You can to make another rail for DC pure and compare the two feeds.
I am sorry but my English isn't very good! A very good link is http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1816&sid=463c17c2a8218c95baafc228c2162b81
i also changed the caps on the driver board and then took out the uprated op -amp , just to hear the sound difference - put the uprated opamp back in the wrong way round and blew the op amp up, d'oh,ah well 8 quid for a new one !! not even for attemping the wolfson upgrade to tricky for my shaky hands may get it done in the new year after the stack of partys i have lined up for the festive period!
the caps make ad difference just slighly worth the couple of quid they cost and they tinkering was good .
i hope to put some pictures of my system up soon once i find my camera!!
Hi,
Can I know what's the value of the MLC 8 / 9? I have remove it previously and have lost it. Is the code 101? More detail of the capacitor will be welcome.
StanleyB
06-03-2010, 08:45
100pF
dave2010
06-03-2010, 10:40
StanleyB
Good to see you here. I suppose I've not had my Caiman for a week yet, but it's still going OK, and really nice.
Ron over on another MB would like some info - http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F7497566?thread=7331135&skip=40&show=20#p93223093
bws
Dave
StanleyB
06-03-2010, 11:27
Spit out the question you want to ask Dave. I am not a member on that forum.
dave2010
06-03-2010, 12:44
Stanley
I answered Ron - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F7497566?thread=7331135&post=93260408&s_edit=yes#p93260408
Basically he's looking for a way to get a 24 bit/88.2 or 96kHz input via USB. Looking at the manual the Caiman doesn't do this right now.
Thanks for quick prompting anyway.
Dave
Majority of dacs can't yet accept 24/96 from USB , tbh the quality of the Caimans USB input is actually very good and its nice to have the option of USB as standard with it even if it is limited to 24/44.1.
Hi AOS ppl,
I have some problem with my 7520. Hope you people can help me in it. Yesterday I was using this DAC connected to my hifi. Everything was ok. Until when I decided to listen through headphone. The right channel give out cracking sound occasionally and it is very obvious. I have the MLC 5 6 8 9 remove. Using two LME49720. So I change the hp opamp to the stock. The problem is still there. Till today I decided to give it one more try. With lme49720 in line and stock in hp amp. the cracking sound was gone. So I though was unstable due to high BW. So I try with ths4032 on line and lme49720 on hp and result the cracking sound did not appear. Anything wrong with my dac?
May have been a dodgy connection on the op-amp socket, I've had this happen before (not with the Beresford dac) if its ok now you may have improved connection after removing and inserting the chips
See how it goes, if you don't notice it again I wouldn't worry :)
dave2010
06-03-2010, 17:36
leo
The usb does also do 32 and 48 kHz. The word size is limited to 16 bits, which arguably gives a slight dip in quality - depending on material. I don't know enough about USB to be sure, but I have a hunch that the error handling on usb links may be problematic for streaming audio. Either there'll be errors, but they won't be corrected, or there'll be errors which will require a retransmit, and that'll mess up the timing. Maybe there's sufficient buffering in the DAC to render this only a minor problem, but otherwise, and if I'm right about this, then it'd make sense to use really good cables. The only experience I've had with errors on usb cables is trying to retrieve data from a Humax Freeview box (9200?). It really did make a difference using short, better cables, and also routing them away from other kit - and, oddly enough, the floor. I understand that part of the problem was due to the
poor driver for the Humax, but even so, the fact that the box was driven into an error resend mode thus triggering calamity suggests that the bits on a usb wire are not reliably error free, particularly if there is a potential interference source nearby. For most computer purposes some errors are not normallly a problem, as everything will be sorted eventually, but for audio streaming applications problems should be avoided and minimised, otherwise the sound really will suffer. I don't know the details of any cables which are good enough to reduce this problem reliably.
Until recently I didn't know the benefits and limitations of SPDIF. For quality audio right now it does seem to be good, but in the longer term I think we're going to have to either have something completely new or migrate to HDMI in order to handle sound with multple channels in high quality.
StanleyB
06-03-2010, 19:04
Neither TOSLINK nor Digital Coax have error correction, so it is a bit difficult to single out USB on that front. In any case, in all the years of copying data from PC to harddisk I can't remember a single file that was incorrectly copied. The same goes for anything I printed via the USB port.
As for the suggestion that 16 bit gives a slight dip in quality: I guess we'll all have to throw out our 16 bit/44.1KHz discs then since their quality is suspect :rolleyes:. Let's face it, higher bit files are not yet mainstream, and not cheap to buy either. So catering for the minority need of 96KHz USB audio would involve a price hike since higher bit rate USB components don't come cheap. There are a couple of DACs on the market that support 96KHz, but I can't ever remember reading a review or test on any of those DACs where USB audio files of different bit rates and frequencies were tested. I'll be interested to know if anyone has.
In any case, in all the years of copying data from PC to harddisk I can't remember a single file that was incorrectly copied. The same goes for anything I printed via the USB port.
File transfer uses another USB class protocol, with error recovery. USB for audio is different.
You can see the different types here : http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs
RoboCopper
25-03-2010, 21:31
I am the last person who should start this thread but I thought it would be useful to pull together some comments from other threads. (Stan, Mods and anyone else-please correct anything I have got wrong)
Stan has provided a very high quality dac which is designed for easy modding especially with regard to the op-amps which are socketed. The stock NE5532P works fine but to put it in context are 62 pence each at Digi-key.
The replacement op-amps that I have seen mentioned to date are:
LM 4562 (recommended by Stan)
OPA2132
OPA2134
THS4032
LME4970HA (circular unit, might involve cutting legs)
The 4562 costs less than £10 for a pair from ebay. Trailer has noticed an improvement with this one as have I-fitted it today.
So lets see some more suggestions and feedback. Dont forget to detail cost and where the parts are available from.
Hi,
If I upgrade those opamps can you hear improvement in sound only via headphones, or via amplifier connected to line out fixed or variable output?
Any input and help from anyone? :)
Theres 2 x dual op-amps, one is for the fixed and variable out, the other is for the headphone amp
ReachtheSky
25-03-2010, 22:45
Robo,
Both located behind the vol pot.
When viewed from the front; One on the left is for fixed and variable out.
One on the right is for headphone amp.
Granville
RoboCopper
25-03-2010, 23:10
Robo,
Both located behind the vol pot.
When viewed from the front; One on the left is for fixed and variable out.
One on the right is for headphone amp.
Granville
BIG thanks to LEO and Granville....
As I listen to Hifi on speakers (I do not use headphones) if I want to play upgrades with my 7520, I can only swap the one of the left in order to improve the sound?
That is really interesting point of design of DACs.
Any suggestions of OPAMPS for OPEN, FORWARD MIDRANGE with TIGHT BASS and FAST sound?
Big thanks for answers and lighting fast replies :)
:cool:
StanleyB
26-03-2010, 15:05
any suggestions of opamps for open, forward midrange with tight bass and fast sound?
lm4562na, lt1364
AD826 work well too for me and some others.
Did you try those LT1364 then Stan? On paper they seem to have similar features to the AD826, for instance the very high slew rate and good cable driver capabilities.
StanleyB
26-03-2010, 18:09
Did you try those LT1364 then Stan? On paper they seem to have similar features to the AD826, for instance the very high slew rate and good cable driver capabilities.
I did. I couldn't tell much difference between the LT1364 and the LM4562NA in the line output stage. It appeared to produce less sibilance though, but I have to double check that. I was trying out a potentially new mod at the same time, so I have to remove the mod and try my listening tests again. The LT1364 low current ability of 5mA made it however pretty useless in the headphone stage.
RoboCopper
26-03-2010, 20:08
Thank you Stan, big thanks
ReachtheSky
27-03-2010, 01:25
Robbo,
If your speakers and amps are quite revealing then I would choose some of the faster opamp chips about.
My own preferences are:
THS4032 (with Tirna cap mod)
LT1364
AD826
Have fun,
Granville
ReachtheSky
27-03-2010, 01:33
The LT1364 low current ability of 5mA made it however pretty useless in the headphone stage.
Thank for that Stan.
The LT1364 has been one of my prefered opamps when uses as the preamp chip direct to power amps/speakers.
But, I have wondered why it has not been quite as "exciting" when used in the headphone stage.
Much appreciated,
Granville
Ah right cheers, no good for me then as headphones are used almost exclusively.
RoboCopper
27-03-2010, 18:13
Robbo,
If your speakers and amps are quite revealing then I would choose some of the faster opamp chips about.
My own preferences are:
THS4032 (with Tirna cap mod)
LT1364
AD826
Have fun,
Granville
Thanks Granville,
Hope to try all those suggestions as this MOD thing is new for me.
I need one more suggestion.
I am looking for opamp with LIGHT, fast, tight bass.
Open, forward midrange.
Crispy, sweet treble.
In my first question I asked for "tight bass and fast sound".
I forgot to mention LIGHT too, I do not need overpowering bass, that is tiring to listen (IMO).
Thanks for suggestions, looking forward to try all the suggestions.
RoboCopper
I have the LME49720HA in the Caiman fixed / variable out and really like it. For me, it improves on the standard LM4562 with sweeter treble and more defined bass.
Regards
RoboCopper
27-03-2010, 21:40
I have the LME49720HA in the Caiman fixed / variable out and really like it. For me, it improves on the standard LM4562 with sweeter treble and more defined bass.
Regards
Thanks Chrism,
It looks like I will try most of suggestions for opamps, as I am looking for the lively, forward sound. I really like Beresford due to the fact that you can customise the output depending to your system and sound you prefer.
Hope to get hands on most opamps and will write short review.
Thanks for all on fast replies and being helpful
Regards, RoboCopper
ReachtheSky
27-03-2010, 22:05
Hi Robo,
I’m a little unsure of what sound you are trying to achieve. IMO if your amp/speakers setup is sufficiently fast and revealing then I doubt that you will find the 7520 bass tiring with a suitable fast opamp chip. (In a lessor system that may be the case!)
The 7520 can produce great SQ if your system is up to it! Some may say that it is a little bright, but I would say that it is capable of being very fast, detailed and revealing.
If bass (and good bass) is not your thing, then don’t use the THS4032 as it has great fast, tight bass. The LM4562 may be more suitable for you. Many users suggest that it is a little bass shy!
I can’t confirm but get the impression from AoS comments that the LM4562 and OPA2134 (for that laid back sound) are a safe bet in most systems?
Being new to opamp rolling, you will be surprised at just how effectively you can modify the sonic signature from the 7520 to suit your ear!
Just experiment…that part of the fun.
Granville
RoboCopper
27-03-2010, 23:52
Hi Granville,
I think you are right, I do have a problem with my current system, or better said, acoustics of my living room which is my listening room. Almost any speaker I placed in here was a bit bass heavy including mine. With analog sources, my system sounds fine (depends of the component of course), with digital is always hard to listen with bass heaviness. The best CD player I heard was Rega Apollo, with lively midrange, treble and not to heavy bass.
Anybody compared Beresford with Rega Apollo.
I rather have cheaper (easier to mod) Beresford (it is new for me as I just discovered an easy way of opamps upgrade) with few digital inputs (including USB) as opposed to more expensive Apollo with only CD as input.
I am happy to hear that 7520 is fast, detailed and revealing.
I just need to play with few of those opamps.
THS4032 sound appealing for me with description of fast, tight bass, I do like good bass, but I mentioned light too as my system can be touch heavy sounded with bass (that is what my ears/brain hear). I checked on THS4032 and it looks different than other chips?? How can you insert it into 7520?
I already ordered LM4562NA.
I have at the moment OPA2132PA opamps, and I do like the sound, but just wanted to hear more opamps, they are simply to replace and try, much simple procedure than buying another cable or DAC (thank you Stan for that).
I will probably try to get hands onto all of the chips suggested but THS4032 looks like a proper opamp, (by looking at a price), just not sure on how to implement it into Beresford.
I do prefer fast, tight bass, open, forward midrange, sweet, lively treble.
This opamp thing is very addictive, I am not sure if all those opamps have to be burn in and for how long?
Cant wait to try them, it is real fun.
Thanks to everybody on this helpful forum
The Grand Wazoo
28-03-2010, 01:43
Hi RoboCopper,
I'm amazed that you've got to your 7th post without being handcuffed & locked in a soundproof cell with a masked 'persuader' who works for the first post police here on the Art of Sound.
Before they set the dogs on you, could you just drop in over at the Welcome area of the forum to say hello to the folks?
A few words about yourself & your system would be a good way to officially announce your arrival. We like to refer to each other by our first names (even if we do have too many Daves here..............you're not a Dave are you?) We also find that our shared love of music is the thing that binds us all together, so a quick run-down of what you like to listen to is always a great way to break the ice.
If you feel like it, you could also post some pictures of your gear in the Gallery too!
Cheers
Good to see that you didn't 'waste' your 3000th post on a gentle admonishment Chris!
Welcome to AoS RoboCopper.
Regards
RoboCopper
28-03-2010, 17:56
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5890
Hello to all.
Sorry did not know.
I hope I will survive this forum?
Rob
RoboCopper
28-03-2010, 17:58
My present system is:
Dynaudio Focus 140
Marantz CD 7003
amp PM7001
Rob (not Dave) :)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5890
Hello to all.
Sorry did not know.
I hope I will survive this forum?
Rob
Hi Rob,
We are actually very nice here on AoS. The reason why we like to know a little about our new members, is because AoS is a bit like a gentleman's club (but without the elitism or exclusivity); in fact it's more of a community than a forum.
The 'Welcome Stasi' have been a lot more diligent of late, as we have had some 'odd bods' joining, who have either just wanted to use AoS as another outlet to advertise items for sale, or have requested advice without letting us know about the gear they use.
I'm sure you'll get on fine Rob.
Regards
RoboCopper
30-03-2010, 08:33
Hi Barry,
Seriously I have been on many different forums around the world, but in this one I felt truly welcome by friendly knowledgeable replies.
Thanks
Robo
Awwww, come here ya big softie!
:grouphug:
;)
Just found this power supply which might be of interest http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=23_41_379&products_id=1177.
So what is the opinion on using the LME49720HA in this DAC?
I put together a few on some adapters for myself and some associates so I guess I will find out myself. Just wanted to get some impressions from others though...
I also read some where having troubles using THS4032 modules that were designed too big and shorting out among others things. I built some THS4032 modules that are lower
profile then the stock DIP8 chips just to make sure!
Also have a bunch of discretes here to play with.
I love opamp testing!
apmusson
20-04-2010, 20:45
Hi Robscix,
THe LME49720HA is one of my favourite opamps in both the 7520 and Caiman. It is excellent - particularly with female vocals....
The THS4032 is great too, it is a little sensitive and can sometimes become distorted in some systems, but when it works it is sublime.
Good luck with the testing.
Ade
So what is the opinion on using the LME49720HA in this DAC?
I put together a few on some adapters for myself and some associates so I guess I will find out myself. Just wanted to get some impressions from others though...
I also read some where having troubles using THS4032 modules that were designed too big and shorting out among others things. I built some THS4032 modules that are lower
profile then the stock DIP8 chips just to make sure!
Also have a bunch of discretes here to play with.
I love opamp testing!
Yes, I have tried them out. I have not noticed any distortion in the THS4032 modules I built. I also built some dual LME49710HA modules, this issue with these and a few others I am considering is the size. I have a few ideas how to get around this issue though. I have been building the LME49720HA modules for associates for awhile and I know how good these can sound so I had to try them out in the 7520.
Hi Robscix,
THe LME49720HA is one of my favourite opamps in both the 7520 and Caiman. It is excellent - particularly with female vocals....
The THS4032 is great too, it is a little sensitive and can sometimes become distorted in some systems, but when it works it is sublime.
Good luck with the testing.
Ade
How long did it take for the LME49720HA to burn-in and stabilise in your 7520? Also, did you have the MLC5/6 and the 100nf cap and 36 resistor mod on your 7520 when they were installed?
Thanks
CD
I have not done any mods yet, I know still new to this device. Just experimenting with opamps. I popped a discrete opamps in there last night and I am enjoying the sound so far.
apmusson
21-04-2010, 18:53
David,
I let the LME49720HA burn-in for about 30 hours before listening to it in earnest. But it sounded great from the get-go.
My 7520 has had the MLC 5/6 snip done, but no other mods. I am also using the maplin power supply set to 13.5V.
I also have a Caiman DAC from Stan. For quite a while I actually like the 7520 described above better with my headphones (AKGk701 & HD650s) - it had more punch.... however after doing the murata regulator and capacitor swaps (described in the Caiman Mods thread) I have completely changed my opinion and prefer the detail and space of the modded Caiman (with a LME49720HA opamp for the lineout and a THS4032 for the headphone output).
Both DACs are great pieces of kit and I can't speak more highly of Stans support....
Ade
How long did it take for the LME49720HA to burn-in and stabilise in your 7520? Also, did you have the MLC5/6 and the 100nf cap and 36 resistor mod on your 7520 when they were installed?
Thanks
CD
I prefer the sound of the Dual LME49710HA module to the LME49720HA, trouble is they are too big for just popping in there.
What happens with this MLC 5/6 snip, I located the components and while sone have been cutting them off a few others have been adding different caps and resistors.
any info on that? I have been reading through the various thread....
I prefer the sound of the Dual LME49710HA module to the LME49720HA, trouble is they are too big for just popping in there.
What happens with this MLC 5/6 snip, I located the components and while sone have been cutting them off a few others have been adding different caps and resistors.
any info on that? I have been reading through the various thread....
My observations of the mods to my 7520 are from my listening through my stereo speakers. With MLC5/6 clipped I found that the bass lightened up significantly, enough so that I absolutely had to do the 100nf and 36K mod. The top end with MLC5/6 clipped, about 300Hz and beyond, was wonderful, however. I have never actually used the headphone jack so I'll leave it to others for the headphone observations.
CD
David,
I let the LME49720HA burn-in for about 30 hours before listening to it in earnest. But it sounded great from the get-go.
My 7520 has had the MLC 5/6 snip done, but no other mods. I am also using the maplin power supply set to 13.5V.
I also have a Caiman DAC from Stan. For quite a while I actually like the 7520 described above better with my headphones (AKGk701 & HD650s) - it had more punch.... however after doing the murata regulator and capacitor swaps (described in the Caiman Mods thread) I have completely changed my opinion and prefer the detail and space of the modded Caiman (with a LME49720HA opamp for the lineout and a THS4032 for the headphone output).
Both DACs are great pieces of kit and I can't speak more highly of Stans support....
Ade
Thanks for that, Ade. I use my 7520 exclusively through stereo speakers so my environment is quite different from yours. I also heartily agree about Stan's support and this forum's friendliness:)
CD
My observations of the mods to my 7520 are from my listening through my stereo speakers. With MLC5/6 clipped I found that the bass lightened up significantly, enough so that I absolutely had to do the 100nf and 36K mod. The top end with MLC5/6 clipped, about 300Hz and beyond, was wonderful, however. I have never actually used the headphone jack so I'll leave it to others for the headphone observations.
CD
I have actually been using both for testing. I have been using headphones when I had to and a Class-D and stereo speakers when allowable.
Perhaps I will investigate the mod but perform it so it can be undone if it is something that does not agree with my current system.
Thanks for the information.
So the 36K and 100nf cap mod are replacments after clipping MLC5/6?
.......
So the 36K and 100nf cap mod are replacments after clipping MLC5/6?
You would think so:)
It was more like;
1. The MLC5/6 mod was suggested to open up the LM4562NA and also get get rid what some had observed as 1 note bass with the LM4562NA.
2. Some of us found that bass weakened with that mod. So Leo and Stan suggested the cap and resistor mod later.
Leo is another one on the forum that I am very thankful to encounter. Man does that guy love to tinker! And he publishes the results to our benefit.
My impression of Leo is that he loves to tinker so much that, if someone were to give him a gift of some great sounding audio device, a DAC, amplifier, turntable, etc, but that this device had absolutely no way of being opened up to look inside, it would drive him mad. :lolsign: Am I right, Leo?
CD
Would you suggest the mod if your not using the LM4562NA?
Would you suggest the mod if your not using the LM4562NA?
Well, maybe. When I put in the LM4562NA, I immediately clipped the MLC5/6 caps.
After it was clipped I tried a few opamps; LM4562, OPA2132, AD826 LME497290, although with the LME49720 I think I may not have given the opamp enough time to break-in. I bought it off of ebay and decided to return it within the window of opportunity, so to speak. My favorites are the LM4562 and the OPA2132. Both are very different but sound great in their own way. They both lacked bass, however in my setup thru speakers. Headphones I don't know.
Now, the 36K and 100nf mod only applies to the LM4562NA opamp. I don't know what resistor/cap combination would work with the OPA2132. I have read observations on this forum that the 36K and 100nf mod makes the OPA2132 opamp too warm. This is my only DAC and the idea of experimenting to find the right resistor cap/combo for the OPA2132 wasn't my cup of tea. I just want to enjoy my music. If I had another spare DAC I might have explored that idea, but all this waiting for any change to settle in has worn me out.
At this point I am "finessing" the 36k/100nf mod. Perhaps finessing isn't quite the right word because I am soldering challenged and what I've done is nothing compared to adaptations like PSUs, discrete opamps, and regulators that I've seen others do to their 7520 or Caiman. I'll post my observations once the system has settled in.
So, to answer your question, I would rather leave it up to you. I've given you my experience so far so you can decide accordingly.
Thanks
CD
My impression of Leo is that he loves to tinker so much that, if someone were to give him a gift of some great sounding audio device, a DAC, amplifier, turntable, etc, but that this device had absolutely no way of being opened up to look inside, it would drive him mad. :lolsign: Am I right, Leo?
CD
No comment :o :lol:
Nice thing with a lot of these mods is that they are cheap and easily reversable if you don't personally like the results
I simply removed/desoldered MCL5/6 and soldered in its place a cut up 8pin DIL socket , it allowed quick comparisons with the stock ceramics, 36k/100nf mod, left empty etc
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