View Full Version : USB Cables, your experience and opinion?
Reason for asking is the review of an USB cable in the latest HiFi+ at an "uncomfortable" price level, namely £6,480!!!!
Alright, i have heard differences between USB cables, but that was when using a non asyncronous USB DAC. The cables were also of standard USB printer style, but one was about 1,5metres and the other was about 5metres.
I actually thought something had gone wrong when the DAC was connected using the long cable?
The soundstage collapsed completely, the resolution all but disappeared and the remains of what was previously the top end was now like chalk to a black board!
This cable functions perfectly for transferring files and as a printer cable, even today, so it is not "defect".
So, in your experience, is it worth spending a couple of hundred pounds on an USB Audio cable?
More than that is not relevant for me, but obviously some people have other prefs.
Regards //Mike
purite audio
09-01-2013, 23:42
No.
Keith.
Spectral Morn
09-01-2013, 23:58
I would have said no myself until I tried a few USB cables recently - with a USB DAC that is asyncronous.
I compared bog standard, a Belkin Gold, Wireworld Ultraviolet and then a Wireworld Starlight. There were marked improvements as one went upwards. I also found improvements when running the same quality of USB cable from the external hard drive to computer and then to the DAC but the improvement was not as big as from computer to DAC.
Not having heard many more USB cables I am not in a position to say that a crazy expensive USB does not offer more, but it might, but then one has to justify the price re performance gains.
Review here..... keep in mind my system, my music etc and your mileage may differ caveat.
http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/18/12/2012/wireworld-ultraviolet-and-starlight-usb-cables-usb-cables-do-matter/
sq225917
10-01-2013, 00:57
I've never found any of them to make any difference with a decent dac, that said the Arcam Rdac was wildly affected by different usb cables, but then again it has 'zero' electrical isolation of the incoming 5v line which is unusual even in £10 eBay dacs.
OK, so a "better" USB cable CAN make an improvement SQ wise...
In most peoples opinion anyway! ;)
@Dalek Supreme D L
I am not familiar with the WireWorld range of products, care to elaborate on the cost of each cable i relation ot their SQ improvement?
Regards //Mike
brian2957
10-01-2013, 09:59
I certainly wouldn't spend hundreds on a USB cable Mike , couldn't afford it anyway . But at around £45 - £50 I can certainly recommend the excellent Furutech Formula 2 . It's the best I've heard , and I've tried a few . Some cheaper some more expensive.
No, it is ridiculous to price a USB cable in the thousands - it just isn't possible to add that much value with one, either in material content or improvement to the SQ.
There can be a marginal difference going from a crap eBay 99p cable to something a bit better. I started with a well-made USB cable supplied with an external hard drive (fully shielded, decent connectors) to a Cardas USB lead costing £100+, and noticed no real difference at all.
I totally agree with Simon that the implementation of the Dac and ground, power and signal line isolation of the dac will very significantly affect the outcome. For up to 24/96 I would say that an optical USB1 full speed isolator will have a far greater effect, but again, the Dac design will predominate/limit.
Is there any need for +5v and Gnd connections for a USB lead to work?. If not, perhaps better to disconnect the USB host end, and let them float.
Cheers,
Alex
kenworthy100
10-01-2013, 11:29
I have a Chord USB cable which is I believe about £60, I can hear very little if any difference over a standard Belkin cable.
Ammonite Audio
10-01-2013, 11:30
There is a comparison review of USB cables of different makes and lengths in the latest HiFi Critic, with some interesting results. I don't have the mag to hand, but it's worth reading.
StanleyB
10-01-2013, 11:39
If the USB lead has been designed according to the official specification then it will work as it should do But in many cases Chinese manufacturers are being asked to make the lead cheaper, which results in cost cutting measures. The final result is a lead that doesn't conform. The first sign of that is a slower transfer speed.
Wakefield Turntables
10-01-2013, 11:39
That price is completely unjustified and that is even before other members carp on about dealer margins, price of assembly, price of resources, blah blah blah. Nearly seven grand for a USB cable is complete and utterly stupid, it's this sort of stupid prices which make me to want to say :upyours: to the stupid companies which try and sell them, really seven grand for a cable, that's f'kin stupid. :steam:
Canetoad
10-01-2013, 11:52
It's not stupid, it's financial rape!! :steam:
realysm42
10-01-2013, 11:56
I think we might be telling half the story here.
Perhaps the DAC that the USB is linking to has something to do with the sound/effect the USB can have. Might not be the case, but I can't say for sure.
My M-dac is asynchronous and I've tried some very posh USB cables, never heard a difference from the cheaper ones. I don't think that's the reality for every DAC and setup.
BTW, can someone link me to a USB cable that is definitely compliant with our standards please?
If the USB lead has been designed according to the official specification then it will work as it should do But in many cases Chinese manufacturers are being asked to make the lead cheaper, which results in cost cutting measures. The final result is a lead that doesn't conform. The first sign of that is a slower transfer speed.
+1
If a cable conforms to the USB spec, there won't be any data transmission errors. If the cable does conform to specs, I'm not clear why magic pixie dust will improve the sound, over say, a qood quality HP USB printer cable!.
StanleyB
10-01-2013, 12:30
My best USB lead is one that came with a Canon scanner. In fact, the scanner is in itself an excellent USB lead testing platform. It just won't scan if the transfer rate of a lead under test is too slow.
Wakefield Turntables
10-01-2013, 12:52
:rfl::exactly:
It's not stupid, it's financial rape!! :steam:
wee tee cee
10-01-2013, 19:11
From personal experience I can recommend a supra usb over a couple of Belkin cables. It sounds better to my ears in my system/room.
My own experience in conjunction with a few other AOS troops whilst having a wee get together confirmed that usb cables can and do make a noticeable difference in a revealing set up.
The get together was written up at the time.....all present were taken aback by the difference a TQ USB lead made in a great set up.
ones and zeros-get some leads and fellow members together,you may be surprised!!!
From personal experience I can recommend a supra usb over a couple of Belkin cables. It sounds better to my ears in my system/room.
My own experience in conjunction with a few other AOS troops whilst having a wee get together confirmed that usb cables can and do make a noticeable difference in a revealing set up.
The get together was written up at the time.....all present were taken aback by the difference a TQ USB lead made in a great set up.
ones and zeros-get some leads and fellow members together,you may be surprised!!!
wot he said. :)
There is a comparison review of USB cables of different makes and lengths in the latest HiFi Critic, with some interesting results. I don't have the mag to hand, but it's worth reading.
Furutech GT2 USB was well reviewed as was the new Supra USB.
Spectral Morn
14-01-2013, 23:14
OK, so a "better" USB cable CAN make an improvement SQ wise...
In most peoples opinion anyway! ;)
@Dalek Supreme D L
I am not familiar with the WireWorld range of products, care to elaborate on the cost of each cable i relation ot their SQ improvement?
Regards //Mike
Start of is about £45 for 1m. There is a full range of prices at the end of the review and if you Google Wireworld many suppliers will come up. Here is one http://www.futureshop.co.uk/wireworld-cables-c-421.html#.UPSSKCc02So
I am surprised you haven't heard of them fairly big American company. Here is a link to the UK distributor http://www.wireworldcable.co.uk/
Regards Neil
My ex-company produced the first generation of USB connector and wire harness for NASA. Look, it was for space travel and it was a cost no concern cable to ensure perfect communication over 100,000 miles suspended in friggin space. And you would expect it to be magnetically shielded, full of nano technology, gold plated connections, chrome shell to prevent corrosion, heat proof upwards of 1000 degrees to withstand solar storm.
No. Cost price back then $5. If NASA can use standard USB cable for their space craft, I don't see a problem using it for our hi fi.
Rothchild
15-01-2013, 07:58
Try ths for a test to see if the cable makes a difference. Put a music file on a portable USB drive (.wav is probably easiest but it could be any file format really).
Copy the file back to a computer using the cheap cable, then swap the cable for the more expensive one and copy the same file to the same computer (put it in a different folder or give it a slightly different name).
Load both files in to a wave editor (eg Audacity), and invert the phase of one of the tracks. If the files are not the same you will hear 'something' (the difference between the 2 files), presumably caused by the cable as they come from the same source. If the files have remained the same the tracks will 'null' (ie phase cancel each other) you'll hear nothing and the meters will show nothing. If they null the conclusion would therefore be that the cable has made no difference.
You could also use this method to determine whether Ethernet cable sounds different to WiFi ethernet. ;-)
I appreciate all of your efforts to prove to me that there are no difference whatsoever. ;)
However you are comparing apples with pears when stating examples with file transfer and saying it's the same cable/method as for Audio...
Audio over USB is a streaming protocol. It has got no error correction, and only basic error detection. Besides, the issue is mostly not that the bits aren't in the correct order or magnitude, it's the fact that they are delivered a little to early or too late. (=jitter)
All cables HAVE some form of properties, whether electrical, magnetical or otherwise. These properties affect signal transfer in some way or another, whether you like/believe it or not! :D
However, the question to you all, was:
Is it worth paying extra for cables designated as Audio USB cables and at what point, in your opinion, does the cost no longer match the increase in audible performance?
Suggestions received so far has been good and well thought out!
Thanks for your input!
Regards //Mike
heat proof upwards of 1000 degrees to withstand solar storm.
Damnit, what kind of cable can do that? :hmm:
Regards //Mike
I don't think there is any difference between USB cables with regard to data transfer, the data is either successfully transmitted or not. But I do believe there can be differences with regard to secondary effects introduced by the USB cable, galvanic isolation, RF interference etc...
I have an M-DAC which has the rather handy capability of a 'bit perfect' test, using pre defined sample files, both 16/44.1 and 24/96 are provided. I can achieve a bit perfect feed from my SBTouch into the M-DAC using a cheapo USB cable, and also with my £35 Kimber 1/2M USB cable.
However the Kimber sounds better, so I have to put this down to secondary effects, I've even bought a USB isolator, but I'd be hard pushed to say if that's given me any improvements...but as it's there, and it doesn't degrade the sound, I'll leave it in place for now ;)
Mind you I don't think I'd spend much more than £35 on one...:eyebrows:
Back to the original question, is it worth spending hundreds on a USB cable?. I remain convinced that this would be one of the worst places to spend this type of money in terms of improving the sound and VFM. Spending it on improving almost any other component or the room it is installed in will get you further.
If you are trying to improve a digital front-end, spend the money on a re-clocking DAC with better jitter reduction/rejection. Can someone explain why an asynchronous transfer of data from the PC to a buffer in the DAC, from where the timebase is effectively regenerated under the control of a local oscillator should be affected by interface jitter?. Personally I think that asynchronous transfer is a must, otherwise the DAC's clock will be swinging about trying to adjust to the native data rate and will be upset by jitter arising from the source or the interface. When using asynchronous transfers, all the DAC has to do is ensure that there are no buffer under or overruns, and clock out the data locally.
Any electrical or optical interface transfers data as an analogue waveform, but as long as the USB packets can be transmitted and decoded without error, then the data IS the same. The standard defines a bit error rate in the order of of 1x 10^-10, which is low enough to be considered negligible for audio purposes, and this doesn't require a fabulously expensive or high-specification cable. If there are audible differences I would expect that they arise from ground or VBUS +5v noise, but again this isn't really a cable issue - look at improving the source, getting a DAC with a better USB transceiver and/or one that uses that along with other strategies to improve it's the noise and phase jitter immunity. Changing the cabling is going to have little to no effect on these problems or deficiencies where they may exist.
Ok, if everything else is beyond worthwhile improvement, then by all means, but it is touching up the gilding on the lily IMHO.
Cheers,
Alex
My ex-company produced the first generation of USB connector and wire harness for NASA. Look, it was for space travel and it was a cost no concern cable to ensure perfect communication over 100,000 miles suspended in friggin space. And you would expect it to be magnetically shielded, full of nano technology, gold plated connections, chrome shell to prevent corrosion, heat proof upwards of 1000 degrees to withstand solar storm.
No. Cost price back then $5. If NASA can use standard USB cable for their space craft, I don't see a problem using it for our hi fi.
Aaahhh, but what do NASA know about Hi-Fi? bugger all! :lol:
attilio7
15-01-2013, 17:50
I don't think there is any difference between USB cables with regard to data transfer, the data is either successfully transmitted or not. But I do believe there can be differences with regard to secondary effects introduced by the USB cable, galvanic isolation, RF interference etc...
I have an M-DAC which has the rather handy capability of a 'bit perfect' test, using pre defined sample files, both 16/44.1 and 24/96 are provided. I can achieve a bit perfect feed from my SBTouch into the M-DAC using a cheapo USB cable, and also with my £35 Kimber 1/2M USB cable.
However the Kimber sounds better, so I have to put this down to secondary effects, I've even bought a USB isolator, but I'd be hard pushed to say if that's given me any improvements...but as it's there, and it doesn't degrade the sound, I'll leave it in place for now ;)
Mind you I don't think I'd spend much more than £35 on one...:eyebrows:
Maybe the reason the over priced but pretty cable sounds better, is Expectation Bias.
I don't believe you would be able to tell the difference in a blind test. Between two well made cables one cheap, and the other expensive.
Having said that £10 to £35 is ok. Because at least you know you are getting a well made USB cable from a good manufacturer.
More on Expectation Bias
http://nwavguy.blogspot.it/2012/04/what-we-hear.html
Please read this, it could save you a lot of money.
Aaahhh, but what do NASA know about Hi-Fi? bugger all! :lol:
That's pretty true. All their comms were in mono!
Damnit, what kind of cable can do that? :hmm:
Regards //Mike
Lol :eyebrows: I would expect $300 hi fi grade USB cables to do that though.
However like all connectors, USB connectors lose traction and the pins can be damaged with persistent plug in and out. The 4 pins could also shift out of tolerance inside the cavity. The lead plating on the pins are quite thin and easy to peel so once the copper get exposed and damaged, you can pretty much write it off. I would just buy a new $5-10 one to replace.
Maybe the reason the over priced but pretty cable sounds better, is Expectation Bias.
I don't believe you would be able to tell the difference in a blind test. Between two well made cables one cheap, and the other expensive.
Having said that £10 to £35 is ok. Because at least you know you are getting a well made USB cable from a good manufacturer.
More on Expectation Bias
http://nwavguy.blogspot.it/2012/04/what-we-hear.html
Please read this, it could save you a lot of money.
If I wanted to be patronised I'd have bought a shop ;)
So you're saying I'm suffering from 'selective expectation bias', given that I found no improvement after adding a £30 USB galvanic isolator...my 'expectation bias' must be be USB cable specific!!!
Where problems have arisen in configurations I’ve experimented with is when the equipment the cable is attached to isn’t designed properly and/or the system layout is such that the USB cable picks up electrical noise generated by other equipment.
Despite the twisted pair arrangement of the data pair in properly designed cables I have found that in certain configurations the noise rejection even with a braid shield has not been enough. I have assumed that the 5Volt wire and/or ground pick up noise and transfer it to the dac; galvanic isolation certainly helps, but some isolators only isolate the data pair.
My opinion is, if expensive USB cables are making an audible difference then they are probably addressing a problem that is inherent in the system and not a problem with the quality of the USB cable itself, if that makes sense. :scratch: :D
Consider removing the 5Vdc line from the U.S.B. you'll be amazed at the difference
Many peripherals rely on the 5v line to indicate when a device is plugged in so may not be that easy.
My opinion is, if expensive USB cables are making an audible difference then they are probably addressing a problem that is inherent in the system and not a problem with the quality of the USB cable itself, if that makes sense. :scratch: :D
Bang on John...good to see you around again :cool:
attilio7
16-01-2013, 12:41
If I wanted to be patronised I'd have bought a shop ;)
So you're saying I'm suffering from 'selective expectation bias', given that I found no improvement after adding a £30 USB galvanic isolator...my 'expectation bias' must be be USB cable specific!!!
What I have said, is a well made inexpensive USB cable will give the same performance. As the expensive cable. Why pay more? you could have had a another 3-4 CDs for the extra you paid for the Kimber.
Expectation Bias is not meant to be an insult.:doh: We are all prone to it.
I certainly am, so now unless no mater what claims are made, unless they can be verified by a double blind test, for me it's just snake oil. At this moment I know of no tests that has been conducted that prove that high cost USB cables performs any better than the standard ones.
As for your accusation that I was patronising you, :scratch: I was genuinely trying to be helpful.
All I tried to do was provide a link to information which I genuinely believe will be informative.
It certainly was not my intention to be patronising.
As for your accusation that I was patronising you, :scratch: I was genuinely trying to be helpful.
All I tried to do was provide a link to information which I genuinely believe will be informative.
It certainly was not my intention to be patronising.
Sorry Attilio, I couldn't resist dragging out an old joke...none intended, and none taken, as they say :)
Again it's not the cables capabilities I question, it's the secondary effects of having a long unshielded USB 'aerial' hanging out of my DAC that I believe exposes it to detrimental interference...as I said earlier the data transfer is perfect from any cheapo USB, but data transfer is not the entire picture...
Spectral Morn
16-01-2013, 13:56
What I have said, is a well made inexpensive USB cable will give the same performance. As the expensive cable. Why pay more? you could have had a another 3-4 CDs for the extra you paid for the Kimber.
Expectation Bias is not meant to be an insult.:doh: We are all prone to it.
I certainly am, so now unless no mater what claims are made, unless they can be verified by a double blind test, for me it's just snake oil. At this moment I know of no tests that has been conducted that prove that high cost USB cables performs any better than the standard ones.
.
I came to this topic (computer audio) reluctantly as I dislike intensely the virtual Emperors new clothes future that people are either sleep walking into or dancing merrily until they find there is zero choice and prices go up and for stuff that does not exist as a physical item..... crazy.
I had no expectation bias other than computer audio and everything related to it is the spawn of the devil. I read comments like yours all over the net from those stating emphatically and with such certainty that something like a Belkin Gold is as good as it gets and all the other cables out there from audiophile companies sound the same as the cheap ones and are therefore a rip off.
Well for a moment, partly through ignorance of computer audio issues (and I concede I am still learning) I accepted that might just be true, after all computers are not designed to be high quality audio sources and there is little high quality add ons, so just maybe, there is no way to improve things from a hardware/connector point of view.
Thankfully an itch would not go away so I tried better cables with no expectation and guess what? they made a difference to the sound and that difference was a major improvement over the Belkin Gold, which is a well made cable.
I am glad you (and people like you) are so certain re your (unfounded) belief in cables quality or lack thereof. Guys like you state in absolutes, but yet have you tried every type of USB cable (and I am not claiming I have) on the market from cheap to crazy. If not then all you can and should say, is to date with what I have tried (and a list of said would be useful) I can hear no difference.
So that means only you can hear no difference (unless you did this with others present even then its hardly enough to be statistically useful), this is not an absolute and in a scientific context would be totally useless.
Spectral Morn
16-01-2013, 14:04
Consider removing the 5Vdc line from the U.S.B. you'll be amazed at the difference
or using an ifi Audio (AMR) iUSB power, this is a major improvement, shockingly so.
or using an ifi Audio (AMR) iUSB power, this is a major improvement, shockingly so.
Hi Neil
This device has only just come out and is very good especially for the price.
For me personally I use another way entirely to fully isolate the 5Vdc line
Covenant
16-01-2013, 16:15
Hi Neil
This device has only just come out and is very good especially for the price.
For me personally I use another way entirely to fully isolate the 5Vdc line
Would you mind expanding on that Tony? :)
attilio7
16-01-2013, 16:39
[QUOTE=WAD62;402150]Sorry Attilio, I couldn't resist dragging out an old joke...none intended, and none taken, as they say :)QUOTE]
No problem :)
Would you mind expanding on that Tony? :)
Hi Jerry
Currently working on a project for a manufacturer which has the heart of this so am not able to expand on this at the moment.
Personally I do not use USB in my own set up which a lot of people may find odd, but that's me :D
Available in sticker form, who wants one? :lol:
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/Logos/MCRUbristolbadge_zps9ad2efc1.jpg
realysm42
17-01-2013, 12:22
That's really weird, you've basically had the complete opposite experience as me with the same dac...:scratch:
I don't think there is any difference between USB cables with regard to data transfer, the data is either successfully transmitted or not. But I do believe there can be differences with regard to secondary effects introduced by the USB cable, galvanic isolation, RF interference etc...
I have an M-DAC which has the rather handy capability of a 'bit perfect' test, using pre defined sample files, both 16/44.1 and 24/96 are provided. I can achieve a bit perfect feed from my SBTouch into the M-DAC using a cheapo USB cable, and also with my £35 Kimber 1/2M USB cable.
However the Kimber sounds better, so I have to put this down to secondary effects, I've even bought a USB isolator, but I'd be hard pushed to say if that's given me any improvements...but as it's there, and it doesn't degrade the sound, I'll leave it in place for now ;)
Mind you I don't think I'd spend much more than £35 on one...:eyebrows:
That's really weird, you've basically had the complete opposite experience as me with the same dac...:scratch:
In what way opposite Martin? the isolator? the cable? the bit perfect test? :scratch:
or using an ifi Audio (AMR) iUSB power, this is a major improvement, shockingly so.
Oooo, now then Neil that looks interesting, presumably this is effectively a high quality USB hub/isolator.
Given that a hub is required between my SBTouch and M-DAC this is quite tempting.
I notice on their site that they are bringing out an optional twin headed USB cable to utilise their twin ports...will it be advisable to wait I wonder :eyebrows:
http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html
Available in sticker form, who wants one? :lol:
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/Logos/MCRUbristolbadge_zps9ad2efc1.jpg
:rotfl:
//Mike
I notice on their site that they are bringing out an optional twin headed USB cable to utilise their twin ports...will it be advisable to wait I wonder :eyebrows:
http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html
I would get on sale or return I think on some DACs it will make a big difference but actualy seemed to get in the way of the JK32DAC
realysm42
17-01-2013, 17:56
In what way opposite Martin? the isolator? the cable? the bit perfect test? :scratch:
Well he said he can hear differences with usb cables and an M-dac, I heard no difference with the same dac whilst comparing a Tellurium usb to £4.50 no brand...
I'd swear that adding an isolator to the chain improved the SQ slightly for me though (my source is a horrible, power hungry gaming pc).
On another note just got my new MCRU PSU in place, now that makes a difference! Sounds positively anemic without it...
attilio7
18-01-2013, 10:03
Well he said he can hear differences with usb cables and an M-dac, I heard no difference with the same dac whilst comparing a Tellurium usb to £4.50 no brand
Hello Martin, that has really intrigued me, you see I would have thought that your expectations would have been so strong (Expectation Bias) considering that you also use Tellurium Q Ultra Black speaker cable with jumpers. A considerable financial commitment, showing a great deal of belief in the brand.
I must admit I do not think that I could have remained so objective in a sighted test and come to the correct conclusion, that there is no difference between quality USB cables.
Just goes to show there are always exceptions to any rule, Well done.
Incidentally I do accept that there can be differences in analogue cables.
Well spoken Attilio! And i do agree with you on the expectation bias subject.
However, you are implying that digital transfer is not affected by the medium?
In what way, does digital information transfer differ from analog transfer through the same cable?
Because to me there is no "digital" signal, it is a state represented by the presence or non presence of a signal which is analog by nature. This signal is a square wave form in the best of worlds, but by definition the media we have available there will be phase shifting, by inductance and capacitance, and to some extent loss of amplitude, due to impedance, from source to target.
I might be way off track here, but in that case it would be very interesting to hear your opinions?
Please note, i am primarily referring to USB Audio protocol transfer where the stream of data is not Error Corrected.
In file transfer protocol the target can always demand resend of data when it is defined as faulty (based on error detection).
Regards //Mike
realysm42
18-01-2013, 11:52
Hello Martin, that has really intrigued me, you see I would have thought that your expectations would have been so strong (Expectation Bias) considering that you also use Tellurium Q Ultra Black speaker cable with jumpers. A considerable financial commitment, showing a great deal of belief in the brand.
I must admit I do not think that I could have remained so objective in a sighted test and come to the correct conclusion, that there is no difference between quality USB cables.
Just goes to show there are always exceptions to any rule, Well done.
Incidentally I do accept that there can be differences in analogue cables.
Indeed; I did expect to hear a difference however I let my ears decide.
It does raise some interesting questions however; if we're using the same dac and hearing differences in the usb cables (or not) I wonder whats causing this variation?
I'm left thinking if I can't hear the difference, perhaps I'm missing out on something in terms of fidelity :scratch:
attilio7
18-01-2013, 15:25
Well spoken Attilio! And i do agree with you on the expectation bias subject.
However, you are implying that digital transfer is not affected by the medium?
Hello Mike,
Yes I am implying that.The medium being a well made fit for purpose USB cable that conforms to the USB 2.0 specification. Which can be bought for very little money.
attilio7
18-01-2013, 15:33
In what way, does digital information transfer differ from analog transfer through the same cable?
Because to me there is no "digital" signal, it is a state represented by the presence or non presence of a signal which is analog by nature. This signal is a square wave form in the best of worlds, but by definition the media we have available there will be phase shifting, by inductance and capacitance, and to some extent loss of amplitude, due to impedance, from source to target.
I might be way off track here, but in that case it would be very interesting to hear your opinions?
Please note, i am primarily referring to USB Audio protocol transfer where the stream of data is not Error Corrected.
In file transfer protocol the target can always demand resend of data when it is defined as faulty (based on error detection).
Regards //Mike
Sorry Mike you have bamboozled me, this may be of interest to you.....
http://marlene-d.blogspot.nl/2013/01/vodoo-continued-my-final-statement-on.html
attilio7
18-01-2013, 15:37
I'm left thinking if I can't hear the difference, perhaps I'm missing out on something in terms of fidelity :scratch:
No real fidelity is always more desirable than imagined fidelity.
wee tee cee
18-01-2013, 17:01
Get a few folk together with different usb cables and have a bit of fun trying them in the same system......trust your ears.
Expectation bias.....ho hum...we are capable of discerning differences for ourselves. You dont have to spend a lot to get a noticeable improvement on basic cables,find out for yourself.
Get a few folk together with different usb cables and have a bit of fun trying them in the same system......trust your ears.
Expectation bias.....ho hum...we are capable of discerning differences for ourselves. You dont have to spend a lot to get a noticeable improvement on basic cables,find out for yourself.
Here, here! Or should that be hear, hear! :)
attilio7
18-01-2013, 17:22
Get a few folk together with different usb cables and have a bit of fun trying them in the same system......trust your ears.
Expectation bias.....ho hum...we are capable of discerning differences for ourselves. You dont have to spend a lot to get a noticeable improvement on basic cables,find out for yourself.
What you see and believe, can affect what you hear, have a look at this. If nothing else it might at least amuse you. :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0
falcoron
19-01-2013, 08:56
My ex-company produced the first generation of USB connector and wire harness for NASA. Look, it was for space travel and it was a cost no concern cable to ensure perfect communication over 100,000 miles suspended in friggin space. And you would expect it to be magnetically shielded, full of nano technology, gold plated connections, chrome shell to prevent corrosion, heat proof upwards of 1000 degrees to withstand solar storm.
No. Cost price back then $5. If NASA can use standard USB cable for their space craft, I don't see a problem using it for our hi fi.
But the hi fi in the shuttle sounded shite! LOL
sq225917
19-01-2013, 10:39
By far the majority of USB cables sold for audio use are not USB cables. They haven't been approved to confirm to specification by the auditing body in charge of the spec so there are many reasons why they may sound different. But none why they can sound better than a standard USb cable- excluding those with filters built in to them or those that physically split a wire for power/gnd etc.
That a listener may prefer sound that is measurably flawed is no surprise, look how well the LP12 sold.
You want 100% of the signal and none of the rf junk- so buy a usb cable filter, not foo cables. You can't beat an active device just by mixing us fancy conductors and twisting a couple of wires.
Rothchild
19-01-2013, 12:22
Here, here! Or should that be hear, hear! :)
Actually yes it should, the phrase is an abbreviation of 'Hear him, hear him!'
AlphaGTV, I think those interferences you mention don't matter as long as there's enough voltage to represent the 1 and a long enough gap without a voltage to represent the 0 is recognisable then the 'code' can be reconstructed.
Realistically the clocking of the DAC is the only place that any differences are likely to be generated. It's true that USB is generally a rather unsuitable protocol for high precision realtime audio transfer. If your DAC is externally clocked then it's unlikely that the USB cable will make any difference.
or using an ifi Audio (AMR) iUSB power, this is a major improvement, shockingly so.
I couldn't resist...my iFi iUSB power arrived on Saturday ;)
So the set up is SBTouch (EDO) USB/Bekin passive hub (still required)/iFi supplied USB cable/iFi iUSB/Kinmer 0.5M USB/M-DAC (A.10)...
So the iFi iUSB has replaced my 'danish' USB isolator, N.B. it's still necessary to use a hub with the SBTouch (USB 1 to 2 conversion).
I'm impressed, there's a noticeable improvement in detail & clarity, even with a non USB powered DAC
Cheers for the tip Neil...:cool:
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