Beresford Bushmaster DAC [Archive] - Page 4

Gazjam

03-06-2012, 10:57

Gary,

I don’t think so. Recently I asked you kindly to describe in a few words the “Beresford brand identity”. Instead of answering my request, you suggested to have a look at Stan’s gear and as an additional bonus you provided a link to Wikipedia — fortuntately at least this link worked. So far the only person obviously found worth doing trying to describe his feelings and perception of Beresford products and their philosophy was Hamish.

Actually you seem to have no idea about this legendary “Beresford brand identity”, but one thing you know for sure: It has to be kept intact and alive, and my design proposals just violate it.

You stated “its best to keep the design simple, clear and to the point”, and I felt free to match what you call “simple, clear and to the point” with photos from products which actually are designed this way. The prices for these products still are very reasonable and fair, but it’s obvious that their visual appearance is in a complete different, much higher league. By looking at gear designed like this, one expects that it also must be sounding excellent. In contrast, when looking at a big part of British HiFi gear, one wouldn’t expect more than just the power indicator light starting to glow the moment the unit is being powered on — assumed of course a matching, high-performance PSU in the size of a brick is used.

To exaggerate this a little bit: certain British audio gear may sound very good, but it looks and feels as if it had been designed and assembled by amateur electronics handymen working from the garden shed. Their gear’s probably superior inner life is not recognizable from the outside, and more sensitive people might not feel invited to give gear looking that nasty even a try.

To Jerry aka “Jandl100”: Please note that the company name is Schiit. I’m convinced that even in a few years in the future their case designs still will be outstanding, excellent and reduced to the maximum. Simple, clear and to the point, as Gary aka “Gazjam” likes them to be, but unfortunately failed to demonstrate in a convincing way with his own proposals.

All just in my humble opinion, of course.

Werner.

Language barrier my arse...
this guys hilarious.

not playing Werner sorry.

jandl100

03-06-2012, 11:06

Language barrier my arse...
this guys hilarious.

not playing Werner sorry.

+1 :D

... Stan's gear is good - why would he want it to look like Schiit?

jandl100

03-06-2012, 11:08

At the price and margins Stan works at there's just no wiggle room to use casework that isn't off the shelf. It would end up being 50% of the price, which is all too often what happens with many manufacturers. I think Stan understands his customers pretty well. There may well be some room for higher priced, more conceived casework designs within his line up at some point in the future, but for now, in a recession, he's 100% right to continue his pure VFM focus.

+1

DaveK

03-06-2012, 11:19

Guys, or should I say children ;) ,
Let's keep this discussion civilised - we are all interested in responding to Stan's request for suggestions, not in another objective/subjective sort of hassle.
We are all entitled to our opinion, when it comes to belittling other's opinions just to bolster our own, it's playground stuff, as is deliberate miss spelling just because we know it irritates the other guy - surely we are all a bit 'bigger' than this. I think we may need the equivalent of a 'naughty corner' if this continues :scratch:
Just my opinion.
Dave.

Jamtoast

03-06-2012, 11:26

Wow. Getting hot in here.
It has been great floating design suggestions, but might I suggest that given the price vs sound quality of Stan's gear most of us here would buy it even if it looked like this:

http://www.cathodecorner.com/satanvision/rear-view.jpg

“It is a curious fact that people are never so trivial as when they take themselves seriously.” Oscar Wilde. ;)

Macca

03-06-2012, 11:29

I think there is a serious dichotomy here that needs expolring further.

In short there are the people who want beutiful looking products and are prepared to pay the extra required to make them beutiful. Werner, for example.

Then there are the people who want exactly the same product in terms of quality of function, but are not prepared to pay extra to have it look beautiful.
Me, for example.

Both positions are valid, so it would seem that the ideal for a manufacturer would be to produce two versions of all products. Imagine a Croft Micro Basic that looked like a Chord for example, but that cost £1500 instead of £400.

webby

03-06-2012, 11:34

In my opinion, based on the assumption that stan would like to reach a new, wider audience (and why wouldn't he?), the homehifi and Beresford.me websites need to be addressed.

With respect to Stan, there is no continuity of design between the two sites and the products; essentially no company identity or brand identity if you like. The Beresford logo only appears on the websites on product images themselves.

Personally, I don't understand why there are two websites at all. There seems to be a conflict of design between them and this can only be confusing for the consumer.

Now would be as good a time as any (on the eve of a new product launch) to redesign or at least rethink the website along with the Bushmaster to achieve a more consistent identity for the company, and the product.

jandl100

03-06-2012, 11:49

Wow. Getting hot in here.......

“It is a curious fact that people are never so trivial as when they take themselves seriously.” Oscar Wilde. ;)

Nah, just a little 'wet Sunday morning' teasing. Just meant in a spirit of fun. :)

Stan can double (or triple) the RRP to put it in some image consultant-designed Kool Kasework if he wants - I reckon that's what it would mean.

Gazjam

03-06-2012, 12:07

Gary,

I don’t think so. Recently I asked you kindly to describe in a few words the “Beresford brand identity”. Instead of answering my request, you suggested to have a look at Stan’s gear and as an additional bonus you provided a link to Wikipedia — fortuntately at least this link worked. So far the only person obviously found worth doing trying to describe his feelings and perception of Beresford products and their philosophy was Hamish.

Actually you seem to have no idea about this legendary “Beresford brand identity”, but one thing you know for sure: It has to be kept intact and alive, and my design proposals just violate it.

You stated “its best to keep the design simple, clear and to the point”, and I felt free to match what you call “simple, clear and to the point” with photos from products which actually are designed this way. The prices for these products still are very reasonable and fair, but it’s obvious that their visual appearance is in a complete different, much higher league. By looking at gear designed like this, one expects that it also must be sounding excellent. In contrast, when looking at a big part of British HiFi gear, one wouldn’t expect more than just the power indicator light starting to glow the moment the unit is being powered on — assuming of course a brick-sized, high-performance external PSU is used.

To exaggerate this a little bit: certain British audio gear may sound very good, but it looks and feels as if it had been designed and assembled by amateur electronics handymen working from the garden shed. Their gear’s possible superior inner life and craftsmanship just is not recognizable from the outside, and more sensitive people might not feel invited to give gear looking that nasty even a try.

Nowadays even a small fish in a big pond needs professionally designed cases, web sites and printing matter to reflect the outstanding quality of his products in a credible, convincing way. It’s the Internet age, my dear; the days of the tinker’s weekly buddy meeting at the local pub are over. Schiit started as a company run by only two persons, but had a highly professional web site from day one plus a very clever markting concept. It also helped a lot that both founders are well-known and respected names in the audio business.

To Jerry aka “Jandl100”: As an experienced Webzine Reviewer you certainly know that the company name is Schiit. So what’s the deal with misspelling it constantly? I’m convinced that even in a few years in the future Schiit’s current case designs still will be recognized as outstanding, excellent and reduced to the maximum. Simple, clear and to the point, as Gary aka “Gazjam” prefers it, but unfortunately failed to demonstrate in a convincing way with his own proposals.

All just in my humble opinion, of course.

Werner.

Not hot at all.
just dont appreciate this guy's sarcasm.

anyways, no more from me on this. :)

howlindawg

03-06-2012, 12:48

jonnyd

03-06-2012, 12:49

To be honest it can be in a Tupperware box for me as long as it sounds good...

:-)

Yeah, thinking about it more I agree with this. The reason I'll be buying one is for what it sounds like and because of my previous experience of Stans DAC's, and his great personal service. I know Stan asked for input, but don't stress too much guys.

DaveK

03-06-2012, 13:05

I don't accept the implication that an improved cosmetic design will necessarily mean more expense.

Stan posted a prototype and invited feedback and suggestions.

Werner posted a few ideas, this for example
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_icons_black_2.gif

All the main dimensions have been kept the same so there's not added cost involved with revised PCBs or casework. It also retains the look of the family of Beresford products.

The combined Red and Blue LEDs have been replaced with just Blue therefore simplifying the BOM.

The Black and Gold volume knob replaced with plain black... I wouldn't expect any added costs there.

The rest is a revision of the silkscreening, again something that doesn't add to the costs.

The result is something that retains the Beresford family look while at the same time managing to look sleeker and slicker at no extra cost.

Like it or loathe it the suggestions were offered freely and in a constructive manner. The negative reaction doesn't seem warranted.

Sorry friends, if you still are, but I cannot resist. I decided not to respond further for fear of upsetting anyone unnecessarily but the above is exactly what I wanted to say but decided against. What it represents is a really beneficially 'worked up' design that will firmly place the Bushmaster in the present, and form the basis of future product design, without significantly impacting on Stan's manufacturing costs, as I understand it. In other words, totally fulfilling Stan's request.
Just my opinion.
Dave.

Gazjam

03-06-2012, 13:12

Like this one.

I don't accept the implication that an improved cosmetic design will necessarily mean more expense.

Stan posted a prototype and invited feedback and suggestions.

Werner posted a few ideas, this for example
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_icons_black_2.gif

All the main dimensions have been kept the same so there's not added cost involved with revised PCBs or casework. It also retains the look of the family of Beresford products.

The combined Red and Blue LEDs have been replaced with just Blue therefore simplifying the BOM.

The Black and Gold volume knob replaced with plain black... I wouldn't expect any added costs there.

The rest is a revision of the silkscreening, again something that doesn't add to the costs.

The result is something that retains the Beresford family look while at the same time managing to look sleeker and slicker at no extra cost.

Like it or loathe it the suggestions were offered freely and in a constructive manner. The negative reaction doesn't seem warranted.

Werner Berghofer

03-06-2012, 13:14

Werner Berghofer

03-06-2012, 13:26

Martin,

I think the use of symbols looks neater but feel that they will be too obscure and non intuitive to many users.

this could be true at first glance, but I think the moment the DAC has been turned on and the “source” button has been pressed to explore what it does, the icons become pretty much self-explanatory. People don’t sit in front of their gear, spending hours reading what’s printed on the front plates :-)

The power icon and its function is recognized worldwide, regardless of the regional language. The source icon can be found on a lot of remote controls for TVs and similar equipment. The optical and coaxial icons pretty good reflect the shapes of the corresponding connectors, and the headphone icon is familiar to even three years old kids.

Werner.

Macca

03-06-2012, 13:33

Martin,

this is a good point you’re bringing up here.

Please let me add this: When looking at a case that obviously has been designed and manufactured in a somehow amateurish and careless way, it might raise the suspicion that what’s inside this case probably was designed and built in a similar manner.

In German there’s a saying: “You also eat with the eyes”.

Most of the proposals which have been published in this thread do not increase the production costs or alter the hardware inside.

Werner.

Not disagreeing with you there, Werner. No-one wants somthing built badly. But what if the case is simply the minumum required for correct function and there is no 'design' at all in the layout it is just a row of switches and knobs. Form follows function. I thinking particularly of Croft, not sure if you are familiar with that 'brand' and its complete lack of aesthetics. We all appreciate aesthetics but can perhaps put such considerations aside for what is simply a box with some bits inside.

Gazjam

03-06-2012, 13:40

Dont know who did original Bushmaster case but it wasn't obviously bad to everyone?
Opinions vary.

Werner Berghofer

03-06-2012, 13:46

Gary,

it wasn't obviously bad to everyone?

guess not everybody is willing or wanting to express his displease in public.

Werner.

Darren

03-06-2012, 13:51

Gary, I don’t think so. It's the Internet age, my dear

The best line of this entire debate. Werner has taken on all comers in a second language. You can't fault him.

DaveK

03-06-2012, 13:52

Not disagreeing with you there, Werner. No-one wants somthing built badly. But what if the case is simply the minumum required for correct function and there is no 'design' at all in the layout it is just a row of switches and knobs. Form follows function. I thinking particularly of Croft, not sure if you are familiar with that 'brand' and its complete lack of aesthetics. We all appreciate aesthetics but can perhaps put such considerations aside for what is simply a box with some bits inside.

Martin,
I fully understand what you're saying but if you can add good design without adding cost, which I think is the issue here, surely you'd be silly not to.
Dave.

Macca

03-06-2012, 14:02

Martin,
I fully understand what you're saying but if you can add good design without adding cost, which I think is the issue here, surely you'd be silly not to.
Dave.

Agreed - but as this thread shows what constitutes 'good aesthetic design' is very subjective

DaveK

03-06-2012, 14:10

Agreed - but as this thread shows what constitutes 'good aesthetic design' is very subjective

Yep, but what I see this thread doing is throwing up (sorry, choice of words maybe could have been better :lol: ) a variety of interpretations of good design for Stan to decide which he prefers - anybody else's opinions are really just bones for we mongrels to chew on and in some cases squabble over, IMO.
Dave.

kininigin

03-06-2012, 14:40

Here's my only contribution on the matter.

I don't care what it looks like as long as the L.E.D.s are not as bright as previous modles and negates the use of insulation tape :lol:

jandl100

03-06-2012, 14:42

The best line of this entire debate. Werner has taken on all comers in a second language. You can't fault him.

Well, I can fault him, he seems very arrogant to me.

Gazjam

03-06-2012, 15:25

No comment..Other than to suggest not to confuse civility with stupidity...

Lets keep it friendly and about the dac fella's. :-)
takes all sorts I suppose....

sq225917

03-06-2012, 15:26

There's plenty of poorly visually conceived gear out there, many audio designers simply do not care that much about looks. Whereas a graphic designer is always going to tell you that it is the most important thing since sliced bread, especially if he's angling for some design work down the line ;-)

Werner's layout suggestions all make sense and would add nothing to the cost of the unit. But modifying the case work, trying different methods of construction, that all costs money and begins to migrate the product away from Stan's current core market- listeners, who I assume, simply want the best possible performance and VFM in their price bracket. I'd like to see Stan broaden his market reach with appropriately priced and designed product the issue he's likely facing is one of scale and resource.

Werner Berghofer

03-06-2012, 15:30

Martin,

No-one wants somthing built badly.

please allow me to quote Stanley Beresford himself:

“Unlike the cheap and cheerful two piece case from my previous DACs, the Bushmaster is made out of precision laser cut panels.“

The original posting by Stan can be read → here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=330387&postcount=423).

Werner.

Werner Berghofer

03-06-2012, 15:37

Simon,

a graphic designer is always going to tell you that it is the most important thing since sliced bread

if you think for a moment about Apple’s impact and turnovers, it becomes obvious that good product and graphics design cannot be overestimated.

especially if he's angling for some design work down the line

please excuse me if this was meant to sound humorous and I just didn’t get it, but I feel I have to clarify something:

I don’t use this forum to acquire new customers. I’m fully booked for the next two years ahead with book design and typesetting projects. I offered my help to Stan completely free of any charge, you may verify this by directly getting in touch with him.

Werner.

Werner Berghofer

03-06-2012, 15:41

he seems very arrogant to me.

One should not confuse eloquence with arrogance. I’m not interested in your love, but I would highly appreciate your arguments and contributions for improving the appearance of Stan’s new DAC’s front plate. Guess I just failed to see them yet.

Werner.

Marco

03-06-2012, 16:20

Guys,

Can we move this discussion away from who loves who, and who doesn't want to be someone's boyfriend, and back onto the Bushmaster? Ta!

Marco.

Macca

03-06-2012, 16:36

Guys,

Can we move this discussion away from who loves who, and who doesn't want to be someone's boyfriend, and back onto the Bushmaster? Ta!

Marco.

I don't know Marco, such storylines might well attract a younger, female demographic...

Gazjam

03-06-2012, 16:40

Just keeps getting more surreal....
Ah well :-)

DaveK

03-06-2012, 16:50

It's only stereo; FFS ;)

StanleyB

03-06-2012, 16:50

May well be that all this messing around with front panels will hold up production :) What do you want, your own take on the panel, or a working DAC as quick as possible? :lol:
The DAC is already shipping to a few people outside Europe ;). The redesign of the front fascia is a suggestion for a later production, not the current batch.

At the price and margins Stan works at there's just no wiggle room to use casework that isn't off the shelf. It would end up being 50% of the price, which is all too often what happens with many manufacturers. I think Stan understands his customers pretty well. There may well be some room for higher priced, more conceived casework designs within his line up at some point in the future, but for now, in a recession, he's 100% right to continue his pure VFM focus.
The casework is not off the shelf, but one that a friend and me designed. I used a program called Front panel designer (http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/download/front-panel-designer/index.html) to do the layout, positioning of the holes, and the recessed bits. The Gerber files were then used by a local laser cutting factory to cut the panels and make the recessed holes. It didn't come cheap. Of course they can cut more complicated patterns etc., but that only adds to the cost. But it is now at least easier for anyone with better skills than me to design their own fascia, send it to www.frontpanelexpress.com, and swap it over with the existing one. You only need to make sure that the various holes are in the exact position as before.

synsei

03-06-2012, 16:51

Just keeps getting more surreal....
Ah well :-)

Surrealism might work Gary. Perhaps someone with more talent than my humble self could mock up a Dali'esque front panel for the Bushmaster... :D

magiccarpetride

03-06-2012, 17:27

It's only stereo FFS ;)

Unless it's mono, FFS.

Marco

03-06-2012, 17:36

Thank feck someone's put a comma in there, at last!

Marco.

wee tee cee

03-06-2012, 18:23

Hi,
New to this thread, can someone surmise how this DAC sounds in relation to its competition .
Regards Tony.,

DaveK

03-06-2012, 18:27

Naughty, naughty!!:lol:

jonnyd

03-06-2012, 18:29

The DAC is already shipping to a few people outside Europe ;).

Bloody Europe holding everything up! At least it gives me a bit more time to decide what to do with my 7510, trying to think of any friends/family who would apreciate the gift, otherwise it'll be eBay I suppose (or classifieds here), I don't need them both.

wee tee cee

03-06-2012, 18:30

couldn't resist.......THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES..........

icehockeyboy

03-06-2012, 19:38

Guys,

Can we move this discussion away from who loves who, and who doesn't want to be someone's boyfriend, and back onto the Bushmaster? Ta!

Marco.

Totally agree!

I hate to say this, but I am picking up vibes the likes of which I thought I had left behind at a certain tent like forum.......:(

Darren

03-06-2012, 20:18

Totally agree!

I hate to say this, but I am picking up vibes the likes of which I thought I had left behind at a certain tent like forum.......:(

Don't be daft. Much ado about nothing is what Internet forums are all about. Sit back and laugh while the sheep bleat.
Stan loves the publicity for his new DAC so no harm done.

Werner Berghofer

03-06-2012, 20:28

Stan told me that the volume knob actually is located lower than on my first proposals. I used a technical drawing from Stan as layout template, but unfortunately the altered vertical position of the volume knob on the prototype was not noted in this template.

Based on these new facts and the feedback received — for which I’m very grateful — I want to present a new layout variant which seems to be preferred by most members who posted their comments. With the exception of different typefaces used for the model name they are identical.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_eurostile.gif

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_helvetica.gif

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_rockwell.gif

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_syntax.gif

StanleyB

03-06-2012, 20:42

Jamtoast

03-06-2012, 21:02

+1 Helvetica!

Yomanze

03-06-2012, 21:03

I think the font used in Bushmaster in the 2rd picture somehow reflects the look of a bushmaster. The flow, variations in thickness, and slanted appearance give a sense of identity between font and name.
Anyone agree with me?

Yes definitely, the 3rd "Rockwell Italic" option fits best. Nice work Werner.

Werner Berghofer

03-06-2012, 21:04

Stan,

I think the font used in Bushmaster in the 2rd picture somehow reflects the look of a bushmaster.

guess you’re actually talking about the third variant here, right? Funny, the typeface used in this variant was also my choice in my initial proposal. Like you I thought it would be a good match for “Bushmaster”.

To support an unambiguous identifiction, the font names used in my latest four proposals are noted in the bottom left corner, just below the layout of the front plate.

Werner.

StanleyB

03-06-2012, 21:08

Yes it is the 3rd:doh:. Now corrected.

howlindawg

03-06-2012, 21:19

Agreed, 3rd variant is the most attractive.

synsei

03-06-2012, 21:38

I'm still not comfortable with the icons but it's Stan's baby at the end of the day. Rockwell Italic for me too...

icehockeyboy

03-06-2012, 21:47

3rd for me too!

webby

03-06-2012, 21:49

I'd agree with that. Good work Werner.

The only adjustment I'd make is moving the Beresford logo to the left slightly to align it with the power button.

synsei

03-06-2012, 22:19

The only adjustment I'd make is moving the Beresford logo to the left slightly to align it with the power button.

Agreed. I recognised that problem when reworking Werner's earlier designs and fixed it accordingly.

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/BushmasterFullUS.jpg

Lee

03-06-2012, 22:34

Having looked at all the different ideas, I just looked back at my Caiman, which I quite like the look of in comparison. I know others seem to think the gold is too much bling, but looking at the gold on the Caiman, it adds a feeling of warmth to the presentation. Looking at Werner's most recent submissions, I get the opposite feeling, a look that is hard, cold, even brutal. I also think the symbols feel heavy and a bit "in your face."

I prefer a very minimalist look. I really don't see the need to label the power button, nor the headphone socket. Both are self-explanitory. Watch any three year old pushing buttons to realize these simple functions are well within the grasp of anyone who would consider buying a DAC in the first place. The select button's function, being much smaller than the power button and located next to the LED's, is easily worked out as well, without the need for text or symbol. It's special functions (dimming of LED's and switching of auto mode) are really only understood after reading the user manual, anyway. The only text that is possibly needed is the numbering of the LED's, with corresponding labels printed next to sockets on the back.

The Beresford logo is fine, unless Stan feels ready to rebrand. For the Bushmaster, I prefer the non-italic, plain thin fonts, the same as the numbers, to differentiate it from the logo. Having the logo and model name both italic and of a similar or same font makes the eye uncomfortable, wondering which is the company brand and which is the model. As far as the DAC description, I'm not convinced it's needed at all, but if it is, it should be in the same plain font, only smaller than the Bushmaster, of the same size and weight as the LED labels.

Just my opinion. ... All a matter of different taste for different folks.

StanleyB

03-06-2012, 23:08

Hi Lee, welcome to AoS and I would strongly suggest that you leg it to the welcome area and post an introduction before the murderators arrive on the scene with their baseball bats.

I prefer a very minimalist look. I really don't see the need to label the power button, nor the headphone socket. Both are self-explanitory. Watch any three year old pushing buttons to realize these simple functions are well within the grasp of anyone who would consider buying a DAC in the first place. The select button's function, being much smaller than the power button and located next to the LED's, is easily worked out as well, without the need for text or symbol. It's special functions (dimming of LED's and switching of auto mode) are really only understood after reading the user manual, anyway. The only text that is possibly needed is the numbering of the LED's, with corresponding labels printed next to sockets on the back.
It's one of those things that the EU regulators insist that you make clear on your equipment in case consumers get confused as to what a knob or switch is supposed to be for.

Marco

03-06-2012, 23:11

Hi Lee,

Welcome to AoS :)

Before going any further, please pop into the Welcome area and post a new thread there, introducing yourself to our members, telling us what system you use and what music you like. This procedure is now required of all members.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

tizer2000uk

03-06-2012, 23:24

I like the 3rd variant.

Touching on the design argument, I can see both sides here:

On the one hand the previous designs were basic and not very pretty but for me if they work well then the look is by the by.

On the other hand, when something looks good it automatically becomes desirable and as Werner said, the first bite is with the eye! Apple have this down to a fine art which has made hi tech very accessible to everyone and not just techies!

If you put two devices side by side and test them most people will pick the shiny pretty product over all else even if the sound from the ugly duckling was better. A good friend of mine decided a few years back that he would go out and put together a good hi-fi. The hi fi shop recommended buying all manner of expensive and very pretty cables and interconnects and gave him a case of them to trial at home. I took over a few of my own cables that although were well made did not have shiny connectors or purple sheaths and ran some double blind tests for him to decide, the tests were inconclusive and so I recommended he not shell out £70 quid for an interconnect and instead look around the budget end which is where my cables are sourced from.

Well he went back to the hi-fi shop and came back a few hundred quid lighter with a selection of the prettiest cables you ever did see...

The only issue with the Bushmaster is that my wife will know it cost more than "a couple of quid" when I remove it from the box...

Labarum

04-06-2012, 04:57

I think the font used in Bushmaster in the 3rd picture somehow reflects the look of a bushmaster. The flow, variations in thickness, and slanted appearance give a sense of identity between font and name.
Anyone agree with me?

I prefer Syntax Roman, though I was quite taken with the Copperplate script offered by someone earlier.

What does it look like with "Auto" above the LED lined up with the numbers and the lines grouping the inputs omitted?

I still think "24/192 DAC" is a sufficient description of the front panel, and I still think the logo would be better if it lost it ring.

Marco

04-06-2012, 07:39

Werner Berghofer

04-06-2012, 09:17

Brian,

I was quite taken with the Copperplate script offered by someone earlier.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_font_variants.gif

Take a close look at the font samples above. On the first line, the glyphs set in “Copperplate” use widened stroke widths at their outer ends. It safely can be assumed that those tender details will not appear on the final face plate. Don’t forget the colour (40 percent black) and the size of the font, and keep in mind that it will be printed on a not exactly smooth, brushed metal surface.

The typeface sample on the third line, “Linotype Palatino”, is very suitable for magazines and books, but for the same reasons as “Copperplate” I would not suggest using it in in low-resolution, silk screen printed on a rough surface. The serifs at the outer ends of the glyphs will not reproduce and print at all, therefore destroying the typeface character and cut down the readability. Serifs on a typeface exist for a certain reason.

I still think "24/192 DAC" is a sufficient description of the front panel

Whenever a number is given, it’s also required to clearly indicate what this number is being used for. 24 — but what? Eggs, cows, degrees, girls, bits?

It obviously can be seen that the glyphs forming the group “24/192 DAC” have all equal heights, therefore creating a uniform, massive block. Compare this to “24 bit/192 kHz DAC” on the last line, and you will clearly recognize a welcome and pleasing, vertical rhythm caused be the different glyph heights. That’s also one of the reasons why text set in mixed case can be recognized and processed much easier and faster than uppercase only text.

In most cases, the main goal of typography is readability or legibility. Next, certain printing and production related restrictions and options need to be considered. And eventually, the selected typeface needs to be in harmony with the product and able to “transport” a desired effect, a characteristic style. Pay attention to the typefaces used in advertising for medical products, cosmetic products or fashion, and you shall notice this. For example, why do you think certain script typefaces are rarely used for traffic signs or car license plates?

Graphic designer, industrial designer and typographer are professions which require a multi-year training and education, usually something between three and five years. Some of them even end with an academic degree. You see, I wouldn’t dare discussing the use of certain electronic components with a DAC’s designer, or the best way to connect pipes with a heating engineer or plumber. Of course I can tell if I like the final result of their efforts, but I do not know nearly enough about their respective special fields to doubt or discuss their desicions made, based on their training, education and experience. Instead I simply have to trust these people and assume that they exactly know what they’re doing and why they’re doing it this way, but not another.

I don’t understand why nowadays any unsuspecting layman considers himself to be an appointed expert in design and typography, just because he/she uses a PC with Microsoft Paint and a collection of a few thousands questionable fonts.

Brian, my proposals are not based on on personal preferences alone. Any graphic/industrial designer with a small rest of self-respect certainly shall not suggest to use “Copperplate” or similar fonts for the brushed metal front face of an electronic device. Doing so would be similar to a mechanic allowing you to leave his garage with only three wheels mounted on your car.

Werner.

seoirse2002

04-06-2012, 09:21

Well he went back to the hi-fi shop and came back a few hundred quid lighter with a selection of the prettiest cables you ever did see

That sounds familiar...and she cant even cook,or iron,but can hear the grass grow,and smell strange new boxes hidden in the house no matter what the font is.:lol:

StanleyB

04-06-2012, 09:27

Graphic designer, industrial designer and typographer are professions which require a multi-year training and education, usually something between three and five years. Some of them even end with an academic degree. You see, I wouldn’t dare discussing the use of certain components with a DAC’s designer, or the best way to connect pipes with a heating engineer or plumber.
Funnily enough I worked as an engineer for BASF in their graphics department and had to sit through lengthy courses in the UK and in Belgium to learn about typeface fonts etc. I had to fix RIP ( raster image processing) equipment, and got see how printing is done on different surfaces. That gave me a bit of an insight into why some fonts aren't suitable for use on one type of surface but would print fine on others. I am no expert in the subject, but I am fortunate to have a couple of qualifications and working experience of its use in an industrial environment.

Labarum

04-06-2012, 09:33

Whenever a number is given, it’s also required to clearly indicate what this number is being used for. 24 — but what? Eggs, cows, degrees, girls, bits?

I read Physics a long time ago at one of England's better universities. It was drummed into us "No units - no marks"; but the front of a DAC is not an examination.

Good heavens man, I'm a North-Briton, a Viking of the Danelaw; but your Teutonic grip on detail is exhausting. I think everyone will know it's not 192 cows, and most of them wont care.

I accept what you say about the suitability of fonts for silk screen printing.

synsei

04-06-2012, 09:34

I don’t understand why nowadays any unsuspecting layman considers himself to be appointed to be an expert in design and typography, just because he/she uses a PC with Microsoft Paint and a collection of a few thousands questionable fonts.

Because innovation often springs from the minds of gifted amateurs.

Werner Berghofer

04-06-2012, 09:40

Brian,

your Teutonic grip on detail is exhausting.

perfection is the result of close attention for even the smallest details. And maybe from your point of view Germany and Austria are identical countries, but I can assure you though more or less the same language is spoken in both these countries, there are huge differences in regional culture and ways of living. The region in Austria where I’m located is much closer to Italy than to Germany, and Vienna is much closer to Hungary and Czechoslovakia, as it once was called, than for example to Munich or Berlin.

As far as I know, Steve Jobs was neither a teuton nor a viking, but is well-known for his “Teutonic grip on detail”, as you call it. Mercedes Benz, BMW, Miele, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Apple — does this ring a bell in your mind?

Werner.

Russell Turner

04-06-2012, 09:47

All I want to know is when will I get mine and is it in a Tupperware box or not?

;-)

Werner Berghofer

04-06-2012, 09:48

Dave,

innovation often springs from the minds of gifted amateurs.

no doubt about this. But the moment these innovations need to be turned into real products, this task better is left to production specialists.

Werner.

Labarum

04-06-2012, 09:51

All I want to know is when will I get mine and is it in a Tupperware box or not?

;-)

:lol:

synsei

04-06-2012, 09:53

Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged springs to mind...

p.s. Awaiting a stern telling off from the Murderators... :eyebrows:

The Grand Wazoo

04-06-2012, 10:00

Labarum

04-06-2012, 10:03

I would have thought that to plan changes now for a future incarnation of the same model, after Stan has already started sending out units, would be rather futile. To change the visual design may be counter productive to reputation.
My own view is that the original design is great, except for some very tiny details - there is no right or wrong in this.

I think you're right. If the product is rolling out, leave it alone.

No design will please everyone.

webby

04-06-2012, 10:09

All I want to know is when will I get mine and is it in a Tupperware box or not?

;-)

No, yours will come wrapped in cling film.

Werner Berghofer

04-06-2012, 10:19

Lee,

The only adjustment I'd make is moving the Beresford logo to the left slightly to align it with the power button.

thanks a lot, point taken:

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_webby.jpg

I prefer Syntax Roman […] What does it look like with "Auto" above the LED lined up with the numbers and the lines grouping the inputs omitted?

Here you are. Please also note the “24/192 DAC” in the top right corner.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_labarum.jpg

Werner.

StanleyB

04-06-2012, 10:37

All I want to know is when will I get mine and is it in a Tupperware box or not?

;-)
Coming Thursday before 1PM.

StanleyB

04-06-2012, 10:42

I would have thought that to plan changes now for a future incarnation of the same model, after Stan has already started sending out units, would be rather futile. To change the visual design may be counter productive to reputation.
My own view is that the original design is great, except for some very tiny details - there is no right or wrong in this.
There is the variable output and/or Caiman version still left to develop, so the suggested fascia changes would go nicely with the next DAC development.

Covenant

04-06-2012, 11:32

webby

04-06-2012, 11:53

Stan, hope you don't mind me mentioning it but there are a few spelling mistakes on your website that could do with correcting:
'Jittre'
'existanece'
'additinonal'
'witched' ( on the download page)
'TC-7240 line livel router'

Well, that's not all. As I said earlier in the thread but got bumped off the page pretty quickly...

In my opinion, based on the assumption that stan would like to reach a new, wider audience (and why wouldn't he?), the homehifi and Beresford.me websites need to be addressed.

With respect to Stan, there is no continuity of design between the two sites and the products; essentially no company identity or brand identity if you like. The Beresford logo only appears on the websites on product images themselves.

Personally, I don't understand why there are two websites at all. There seems to be a conflict of design between them and this can only be confusing for the consumer.

Now would be as good a time as any (on the eve of a new product launch) to redesign or at least rethink the website along with the Bushmaster to achieve a more consistent identity for the company, and the product.

StanleyB

04-06-2012, 12:28

MartinT

04-06-2012, 12:48

Anyone agree with me?

Yep, the Rockwell font looks good.

Marco

04-06-2012, 12:49

Guys,

Can we move this discussion away from who loves who, and who doesn't want to be someone's boyfriend, and back onto the Bushmaster? Ta!

Marco.

What part of the above have some people failed to grasp?? And incidentally, that question is rhetorical! When I ask for something to be done, I expect it to be done!

I've just pruned this thread of a load of bullshite and insults. Now, I don't want any further response on this, other than simply everyone complying with the following warning:

If I see any further evidence of the petty squabbling which I've just removed, then the thread will be locked and some 'holidays' will be getting handed out.

All further content on this thread, therefore, MUST ONLY be in reference to the Bushmaster DAC itself. Anything else will be deleted immediately, and a week's ban handed out to whoever is responsible for the offending remarks. I do hope that I've made myself crystal clear!!!

Marco.

P.S If you consider that someone is behaving out of order, the ONLY acceptable way of dealing with the matter is to hit the 'Report Post' button, and then let a member of admin and/or a moderator deal with it. Do NOT, under any circumstances, take the matter into your own hands by retaliating towards other members with abuse.

Covenant

04-06-2012, 14:36

Can you point me to the relevant pages in each case?

Looks like you have already dealt with most of them Stan. Just one on the Bushmaster download pages, third page under Auto Mode is says 'witched off' instead of switched off.

ZebuTheOxen

04-06-2012, 14:57

Sorry to be so mundane, but has anyone reviewed the headamp aspect of the Bushmaster?

I'm still using a self-modded TC-7520 and wouldn't mind an upgrade!

StanleyB

04-06-2012, 15:05

Looks like you have already dealt with most of them Stan. Just one on the Bushmaster download pages, third page under Auto Mode is says 'witched off' instead of switched off.
Cheers Jerry.

StanleyB

04-06-2012, 15:08

Sorry to be so mundane, but has anyone reviewed the headamp aspect of the Bushmaster?

I'm still using a self-modded TC-7520 and wouldn't mind an upgrade!
Send me a PM and we can arrange for you to come and try out your headphone on a Bushmaster. I can pick you up from the tube station, where we met before. Maybe you could do the review :).

Gazjam

04-06-2012, 16:04

Send me a PM and we can arrange for you to come and try out your headphone on a Bushmaster. I can pick you up from the tube station, where we met before. Maybe you could do the review :).

Great service Stan. :cool:

DaveK

04-06-2012, 16:07

Hope this is relevant - pinched the link from another forum: -

http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/frontdesigner.html

Now we can all be designers :lol: .
Dave.

barry-potter

04-06-2012, 16:13

stan,

correct me if i am wrong but i seem to remember that there may be an issue about using the bushmaster with a lightspeed pre amp. am i imagining reading a post about that?

Gazjam

04-06-2012, 16:22

Hope this is relevant - pinched the link from another forum: -

http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/frontdesigner.html

Now we can all be designers :lol: .
Dave.

Dave,
Is that the software Stan spoke of earlier that he uses?
(Liking the idea of interchangeable front panels...)

Russell Turner

04-06-2012, 16:46

Stan,

Payment sent.

I await the "chosen one" with bated breath...

Russ

jonnyd

04-06-2012, 17:02

Same here....

*waits for postman to knock on door

DaveK

04-06-2012, 17:52

Dave,
Is that the software Stan spoke of earlier that he uses?
(Liking the idea of interchangeable front panels...)

Gaz, you of all people, (having frequent experience of what a shit (I'll resist the temptation in view of earlier comments :lol:) memory I have). are asking me that question. I don't know - my source was a today post on Rock Grotto.
Dave.

Gazjam

04-06-2012, 20:09

:)
Yeah think its the same software.
Looks good.

Interchangable front panels - design and manufacture yer own!
Unique feature!

We talking about the Dacs sound yet?

StanleyB

04-06-2012, 20:13

:)
We talking about the Dacs sound yet?
Not till Thursday I reckon. No need to rush ;).

Jamtoast

05-06-2012, 09:15

Like your designs Werner, but still not crazy about the font choices - especially Rockwell for 'Bushmaster'. Am I alone in this?

Werner Berghofer

05-06-2012, 10:18

Graham,

still not crazy about the font choices

if I’m right the majority sems to like the “Rockwell” variant. Font choice is a very subjective matter; I guess it’s impossible to design something which is pleasing to everyone. Ultimately this decision needs to be made by Stan; he also seems to favor the “Rockwell” typeface (see → here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=332550&postcount=796)).

Werner.

howlindawg

05-06-2012, 11:13

Just a few final thoughts on the front panel design.

Now that the inputs are labeled 1,2,3,4 I'm not sure that the Optical and Coaxial symbols are still required cluttering up the front panel. They're not well known and are somewhat superfluous on the front panel.

I prefer the 24bit/192kHz to just 24/192. It's probably my Maths/Physics background but specs or measurements without units just seem incomplete and amateurish to me.

Minor cosmetic points though as the latest designs would all look great on the product.
I'm looking forward to some feedback on the sonic performance in the near future.

The Black Adder

05-06-2012, 11:57

Good luck! - Joe's left the building.

Werner Berghofer

05-06-2012, 14:50

Martin,

I'm not sure that the Optical and Coaxial symbols are still required cluttering up the front panel. They're not well known and are somewhat superfluous on the front panel.

I agree. This was also my impression the moment I saw the Schiit Bifrost’s (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7) front plate for the first time, and I was a little puzzled. But a few minutes later I started to like these icons, maybe also because they’re quite unique and gave me the feeling that I had purchased something special.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/bifrost_faceplate.jpg

[Close-up of the Bifrost DAC. Diameter of the input select button: 12 mm]

I prefer the 24bit/192kHz to just 24/192 […] specs or measurements without units just seem incomplete and amateurish to me.

Could not agree more. Unlike you I have no background in maths or physics, quite to the contrary.

Werner.

Gazjam

05-06-2012, 16:56

Martin,

I agree. This was also my impression the moment I saw the Schiit Bifrost’s (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7) front plate for the first time, and I was a little puzzled. But a few minutes later I started to like these icons, maybe also because they’re quite unique and gave me the feeling that I had purchased something special.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/bifrost_faceplate.jpg

[Close-up of the Bifrost DAC. Diameter of the input select button: 12 mm]

Could not agree more. Unlike you I have no background in maths or physics, quite to the contrary.

Werner.

Those Icons work well against the brushed aluminium finish. Something a bit different, as you say Werner.
Nice.

Werner Berghofer

05-06-2012, 18:34

Martin,

I'm not sure that the Optical and Coaxial symbols are still required cluttering up the front panel.

being a big advocate for minimalism myself, in my opinion something is just missing here:

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_animation.gif

I feel the input icons and their grouping lines visually balance the arrangement of the various elements. They also help to understand the device’s functions and current mode of operation at a glance.

Werner.

Reid Malenfant

05-06-2012, 18:55

I feel the input icons and their grouping lines visually balance the arrangement of the various elements. They also help to understand the device’s functions and current mode of operation at a glance.

Werner.
I'm in agreement with you Werner :)

The Vinyl Adventure

05-06-2012, 19:00

Martin,

being a big advocate for minimalism myself, in my opinion something is just missing here:

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_animation.gif

I feel the input icons and their grouping lines visually balance the arrangement of the various elements. They also help to understand the device’s functions and current mode of operation at a glance.

Werner.

Ooo I do like a gif ... Here's one I made earlier (literally this avo)

http://www.realphotographersforum.com/imagesforarticles/SLR.gif

Marco

05-06-2012, 19:17

Ooo I do like a gif ...

I completely agree. Life would simply be unimaginable without them.

Marco.

Reid Malenfant

05-06-2012, 19:19

I completely agree. Life would simply be unimaginable without them.

Marco.
:eyebrows:

Somehow, something tells me you is taking the pee :rfl:

The Vinyl Adventure

05-06-2012, 19:35

I completely agree. Life would simply be unimaginable without them.

Marco.

I'm glad others see the joy of such things :mex:

Jamtoast

06-06-2012, 02:51

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_animation.gif

I feel the input icons and their grouping lines visually balance the arrangement of the various elements. They also help to understand the device’s functions and current mode of operation at a glance.

I agree - with the icons the layout is nicely balanced. And I'm a fan of the symbols - elegant. Don't think that words are necessary given how simple the operation of the device is. The only caveat is that Stan would need to add a clear explanation in the documentation - to save him having to answer endless queries downstream from those customers who are, shall we say, one or two sandwiches short of a picnic.

Despite my reservations about the font, overall I think this has evolved into a very nice design. Nice work.

jandl100

06-06-2012, 05:35

Yes, the icons do look good.

My suspicion, though, is that Stan would be deluged with emails from users who want to know what they mean - regardless of it being spelled out in a user manual.

I fear that you really do need to spell it out for some folks - especially in Stan's target market area where many buyers will not be tech- or hifi-savvy in any way.

StanleyB

06-06-2012, 06:57

howlindawg

06-06-2012, 07:05

I feel the input icons and their grouping lines visually balance the arrangement of the various elements.

Yes, you are correct.
Job done? :cool:

Werner Berghofer

06-06-2012, 07:34

Graham,

The only caveat is that Stan would need to add a clear explanation in the documentation

guess in the moment one has a look at the connectors of a Toslink or a Coaxial cable, even complete clueless people immediately will recognize the meaning of these icons. They are more simplified and styled, but match the appearance of the actual connectors on the DAC’s rear.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_back.gif

Regarding the RCA line-outs: I know this is a commonly used placement, but isn’t it a little weird that the right connector is placed on the left side and the left connector on the right side? Anybody here feeling similar?

Werner.

The Grand Wazoo

06-06-2012, 07:44

I'd still copy the symbols from the front & put one of each below & between the relevant text on the back panel - you mustn't forget that some people really are very, very thick and others are very, very non technical.

bobbasrah

06-06-2012, 07:55

Werner Berghofer

06-06-2012, 07:59

Bob,

Where are 3 and 4 on this model then?

very true! The connectors on the rear certainly need to be numbered or designated to match the front plate. We are talking about a fictional front plate and an actual photo of the DAC’s back.

Werner.

StanleyB

06-06-2012, 08:27

First call for Stan - "Where are 3 and 4 on this model then?" :scratch:
There aren't any.

nightyy

06-06-2012, 09:01

Should it maybe be called

1 (Coax)
2 (Coax)
3 (Toslink)
4 (Toslink)

MartinT

06-06-2012, 09:02

Regarding the RCA line-outs: I know this is a commonly used placement, but isn’t it a little weird that the right connector is placed on the left side and the left connector on the right side? Anybody here feeling similar?

The connectors should be correctly placed as seen from the FRONT. All my components obey that rule except my Whest phono preamp - most annoying.

nightyy

06-06-2012, 09:13

This would then mean:

4 (Toslink) 3 (Toslink) 2 (Coaxial) 1 (Coaxial)

Marco

06-06-2012, 09:31

Hi "nightyy",

Welcome to AoS :)

Before you go any further, please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community, by telling us your approximate geographical location, your real first name, what system you use and what music you like, as this procedure is required of all members.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Jamtoast

06-06-2012, 09:31

Wahoo! Mine is on it's way.
Wonder if I can claim to be the first antipodean to wrestle a Beresford Bushmaster?
We're quite big on jumping on crocodiles down here.

jandl100

06-06-2012, 10:28

My foreign customers catch on very well. I have ways of making them understand ;).

Fair enough, then, Stan.

I think the icons look great! :thumbsup:

Russell Turner

06-06-2012, 10:37

Stan are the 1st shipment run going to be the 1st "Tactical" front plate design?

And then the "Strategic" plate design will follow?

StanleyB

06-06-2012, 11:43

Stan are the 1st shipment run going to be the 1st "Tactical" front plate design?

And then the "Strategic" plate design will follow?
Nope. In order to avoid any confusion any redesign of the printing on the front panel will be left to a later date yet to be decided.

DSJR

06-06-2012, 12:48

Just looked on the Home HiFi site and the Bushmaster in "as shown" livery looks OK to me. No prices though and the site seems to have links down Stan. I'm sure I've missed it but is there a definitive price as yet?

Gazjam

06-06-2012, 15:04

The new Dac looks good on the website Stan.
Well done :)

Looking forward to the reviews to come.

wee tee cee

06-06-2012, 16:00

I look forward to trying one myself.
If it can sonically play ball with a dedicated head phone amps and go toe to toe with respected dacs it could well be the dac equivalent of a well implemented t amp.
I look forward to hearing the thoughts of one of the seasoned vets once they have a couple of hundred hours on one.
Best of luck Stan.......

Werner Berghofer

06-06-2012, 17:25

Disclaimer: This comment is not meant as negative criticism, but as an advice for improvement.

The new Dac looks good on the website

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_web2.jpg

The edges of the unit (aka “clipping path” for the initiated) need to be revised. There’s a clearly visible jagged white border which does not match the light gray background.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_web1.jpg

I have the feeling that the horizontal edge of the DAC is not aligned perfectly, but slightly tilted down to the right.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_web3.gif
When isolating product photos from unwanted backgrounds, the edges of the image should seamlessly merge into the background, like in this example.

Please allow me to add that my “exhausting Teutonic grip for detail” is a consequence of my profession: typesetting, book design, illustrations and image editing. People in this business are trained and accustomed to pay close attention to even the smallest details.

Werner.

Gazjam

06-06-2012, 18:02

Presumably I sound like an “arrogant c*ck” again, but the edges of the unit (aka “clipping path” for the initiated) need to be revised.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_web1.jpg

There’s a clearly visible jagged white border which does not match the light gray background.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_web2.jpg

I have the feeling that the horizontal edge is not aligned perfectly, but slightly tilted to the right.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_web3.gif

When isolating product photos from unwanted backgrouds, the edges of the image should merge into the background seamlessly.

Werner.

Uhm no Werner we've moved on from that remember?
Lets keep it about the Dac my friend. :)

DaveK

06-06-2012, 18:35

Uhm no Werner we've moved on from that remember?
Lets keep it about the Dac my friend. :)

Nice one Gaz - for the benefit of the mods Werner is aware of my position on this :)
Dave.

MartinT

06-06-2012, 20:08

For goodness' sake, guys, can you stop sniping at each other and be civil?

Gazjam

06-06-2012, 20:30

For goodness' sake, guys, can you stop sniping at each other and be civil?

+1

Bonky

06-06-2012, 21:24

Gentlemen,
I've re-read Werner's last post and, unless I am very much mistaken, all he is doing is making constructive comments about the appearance of the Bushmaster photo as it appears on the background of Stan's webpage.

I can't see anything inflammatory about this. Why seek unnecessary strife? Is this 'Trolling' by a slightly more subtle route?

Richard

ZebuTheOxen

06-06-2012, 21:44

Send me a PM and we can arrange for you to come and try out your headphone on a Bushmaster. I can pick you up from the tube station, where we met before. Maybe you could do the review :).
I don't think I'll get the chance before the Olympics are over unfortunately, but thankyou for the offer. :)

Gazjam

06-06-2012, 21:52

He edited his original post to add the disclaimer.
Thinking about the tone of what you post is something we all should do, myself included.

What he's saying makes sense actually. :)
No strife here dude.

Gentlemen,
I've re-read Werner's last post and, unless I am very much mistaken, all he is doing is making constructive comments about the appearance of the Bushmaster photo as it appears on the background of Stan's webpage.

I can't see anything inflammatory about this. Why seek unnecessary strife? Is this 'Trolling' by a slightly more subtle route?

Richard

MartinT

06-06-2012, 22:02

No more on this subject, please.

Back to the Bushmaster, looking forward to receiving mine shortly :)

Bonky

06-06-2012, 22:03

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 09:40

The edges of the unit (aka “clipping path” for the initiated) need to be revised. There’s a clearly visible jagged white border which does not match the light gray background.

Thanks for picking up on that Werner. I have now corrected that.

Werner Berghofer

07-06-2012, 09:56

Stan,

I have now corrected that.

well, honestly: Now it looks a little bit different than yesterday, but I wouldn’t call this exactly corrected :-)

Please email me the picture you used for this part of your website in the maximum pixel dimensions available. (You still got my email adress, I assume?) I shall be more than glad to do this clipping path stuff for you, match it perfectly against your website’s background, change the image size and return it to you via email immediately.

Kind regards,

Werner.

MartinT

07-06-2012, 09:59

Bushmaster now received, thanks Stan. I have it plugged in to put some hours on it and will report on its sound when I connect it up in place of the Caiman later today.

My Caiman will move to PC duties by dint of its USB interface.

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 10:16

Looking forward to the comments :).

Russell Turner

07-06-2012, 10:27

Sat here eagerly awaiting the delivery of mine, who is it being shipped with Stan?

webby

07-06-2012, 10:29

Thanks for picking up on that Werner. I have now corrected that.

Stan,

Why do you maintain 2 websites? I notice the Bushmaster is on Homehifi but no on Beresford.me.

Slightly confused,

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 10:39

Sat here eagerly awaiting the delivery of mine, who is it being shipped with Stan?
RM special delivery. Should be with you before 1PM.

Russell Turner

07-06-2012, 10:42

As if by magic the Shopkeeper appeared!

It's here and its not in a Tupperware box... Can't test it yet, but as soon as I will report back.

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 10:43

Stan,

Why do you maintain 2 websites? I notice the Bushmaster is on Homehifi but no on Beresford.me.

Slightly confused,
It takes time to update both. I have two sites because I would like to branch off into other things later in life, which makes the beresford.me name an ideal candidate. It is not product area specific.

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 10:45

As if by magic the Shopkeeper appeared!

It's here and its not in a Tupperware box... Can't test it yet, but as soon as I will report back.
:doh:. I should have asked for delayed delivery :lol:.

Werner Berghofer

07-06-2012, 11:22

Stan,

I have now corrected that.

here’s a larger version. The image with matching dimensions and background as used on your website shall arrive in your email inbox within a few moments.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_web4.gif

I also felt the need to remove the colour cast on the case top to better match the front plate. The device’s edges were adjusted horizontally and vertically parallel to the edges of the picture, since the camera was not placed perfectly at the center and parallel to the front side.

Werner.

Russell Turner

07-06-2012, 12:02

Just had a quick listen and this is not by any means a thorough review...

Two of my "reference" recordings are off Kate Bush's 50 Words For Snow album (the 24bit 96KHz version), these being Misty and Among Angels, on listening to these the difference is apparent to the stock Squeezebox Touch's built in DAC (note I am using the EDO mod).

There is more detail for start of, things that were distant sounds for instance like the ride cymbals on Misty are now more there and part of the mix, the bass on the track seems to go a lot lower as well, which is no mean feat on a pair of Celestion SL6S's.

With the track Among Angels which isn't complex at all there is an air of competency to the overall delivery, the middle frequencies don't "ring" as much and it all fits together a lot more completely, also that sibilance or digital harshness seems to have all but disappeared from the sound

One thing I have noticed tho... And it may be me, the vocals and the overall area around that middle part of the sound spectrum sound slightly "boxed in" and not floating out of the speakers, I will let the unit break in more before making a final call on that observation though.

I tried the 16bit 44.1KHz track Good Man in a Storm of the remastered Level 42 World Machine album and it sounded dreadful, don't know what was going on there, I will try the original unmastered CD I think using the optical out of a cheap CD player I have hanging about to see if it is the usual brick wall approach I am hearing, but it was quite unlistenable.

I then went on to a 24bit 192KHz vinyl rip of Michael Jackson's Thriller album, the DAC handled this with aplomb and it was quite a good, relaxed, detailed sound, I liked this a lot, seemed again to be more detail.

I am wondering... Does the Bushmaster have preference or tendency to like higher resolution files as this is where I had the best initial experience?

Note: the Squeezebox Touch was connected to the Bushmaster DAC via a home brew Belden 89259 coaxial cable and then connected to the Pulse amplifier by home brew twisted Belden 89259 cables terminated with gold plated Ixos phonos.

Anyways I will keep pushing on, the initial impression though is good and is a worthy upgrade, just bit concerned about those 44.1KHz tracks, but it's probably nowt.

Russ

Gazjam

07-06-2012, 12:08

If its anything like the Caiman it will take a good time to properly burn in.

jonnyd

07-06-2012, 12:13

RM special delivery. Should be with you before 1PM.

at 12.58pm - door knocks..."special delivery here for you"

new sigur ros album playing through the Bushmaster to accompany my working from home afternoon.

MartinT

07-06-2012, 12:19

If its anything like the Caiman it will take a good time to properly burn in.

Yes indeed, Gary. I'm expecting to leave it playing MTV HD from the Sky HD box for a couple of days.

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 13:28

There is more detail for start of, things that were distant sounds for instance like the ride cymbals on Misty are now more there and part of the mix, the bass on the track seems to go a lot lower as well, which is no mean feat on a pair of Celestion SL6S's.[]

That's what it says on the can: better and lower bass :).

With the track Among Angels which isn't complex at all there is an air of competency to the overall delivery, the middle frequencies don't "ring" as much and it all fits together a lot more completely, also that sibilance or digital harshness seems to have all but disappeared from the sound
Just as I highlighted on my website as one of the benefits of the Bushmaster over many others.

One thing I have noticed tho... And it may be me, the vocals and the overall area around that middle part of the sound spectrum sound slightly "boxed in" and not floating out of the speakers, I will let the unit break in more before making a final call on that observation though.
Be cautious. The 3D stereo imaging of the recording environment is not injected with artificial bloom by an opamp or feedback circuit. The Bushmaster will place the different microphones position during the recording of the track in the same position that it was mixed into the complete composition.

I tried the 16bit 44.1KHz track Good Man in a Storm of the remastered Level 42 World Machine album and it sounded dreadful, don't know what was going on there, I will try the original unmastered CD I think using the optical out of a cheap CD player I have hanging about to see if it is the usual brick wall approach I am hearing, but it was quite unlistenable.
Even the Bushmaster can't correct badly remastered discs. I listened to the original and remastered discs from the likes of The Eagles, Sade, etc. and was shocked how much remastered music is increased in volume level and once dynamic sections were then slammed against the maximum CD bit level because of the overall increase in audio level loudness. If you use an audio editing program like Audition you should be able to compare the audio file top end compression against the playback.

jonnyd

07-06-2012, 15:32

Given the most folk agree that this needs some time to burn in. I'm very impressed straight out of the box.

Comparing it to the 7510 6/4 (which I'll soon be selling), the Bushmaster is certainly an improvement. Using both Spotify and lossless on iTunes, my impression is that there is much more clarity in songs than I'm used to; deeper and better defined bass, crisper hi hats and snare drums. If its going to get better with time too, then I'm a very happy man!

Well done stan, a great product.

(I also really like the LED sleep mode - they are very bright when on!)

webby

07-06-2012, 15:36

Just had a quick listen and this is not by any means a thorough review...

Two of my "reference" recordings are off Kate Bush's 50 Words For Snow album (the 24bit 96KHz version), these being Misty and Among Angels..

I tried the 16bit 44.1KHz track Good Man in a Storm of the remastered Level 42 World Machine album and it sounded dreadful..

I then went on to a 24bit 192KHz vinyl rip of Michael Jackson's Thriller album, the DAC handled this with aplomb and it was quite a good, relaxed, detailed sound, I liked this a lot, seemed again to be more detail.

I am wondering... Does the Bushmaster have preference or tendency to like higher resolution files as this is where I had the best initial experience?

.. just bit concerned about those 44.1KHz tracks, but it's probably nowt.

Russ

Russ,

Surely you must have plenty more 16/44 tracks that you can try, no?

snapper

07-06-2012, 15:54

I tried the 16bit 44.1KHz track Good Man in a Storm of the remastered Level 42 World Machine album and it sounded dreadful, don't know what was going on there, I will try the original unmastered CD I think using the optical out of a cheap CD player I have hanging about to see if it is the usual brick wall approach I am hearing, but it was quite unlistenable.

Russ

Could well be, have a look at this site. (http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?search_artist=level+42&search_album=world+machine)

MartinT

07-06-2012, 16:04

That's a good database, David. Makes for sobering reading.

My opinion: all engineers who scored red across the three criteria should be taken outside and shot.

magiccarpetride

07-06-2012, 16:39

If its anything like the Caiman it will take a good time to properly burn in.

Indeed. Of all the audio components I've ever owned, Caiman took the longest to properly burn in. But once it all settled in, the sound was fantastic.

Colin151

07-06-2012, 16:43

Got my Bushmaster today, and I’ve been doing AB comparison with my Gatorised Caiman, using their fixed RCA outputs. Speakers are Magnepan 3.3Rs driven by valve preamp and MOSEFT power amplification.

The Bushmaster is miles ahead of my Gatorised Caiman in my opnion. For a start, there’s much more extension at both ends with the Bushmaster. The bass in particular is improved markedly and goes down forever, but that’s not the full story. There is a huge veil over the sound when hearing the camain which is completely removed when switching to the Bushmaster. This is far more than little layer of hash removed, it’s like an open window. (Stan is also right on another issue, - you can hear the technicalities of the recording far more easily). Clarity/transparency etc is in a different league.

Astonishingly, the Bushmatser also wins on Musicality. This really is a special DAC in my opnion. It has such amazing resolution and is still musical at the same time. Not sure how he's done it but many thanks Stan. :D

P.S The Bushmaster also has a tad more output level than the Gatorised Caiman, - it's at least on par with the original Caiman.

Russell Turner

07-06-2012, 17:02

Webby - Aye something in the order of around twenty odd thousand or so, the rest being high resolution files...

(Over 1.2TB of FLAC here)

Snapper -That's a great Website, so it looks like the Bushmaster reveals the Devil's work!

Update: Plugged my crap LG DNX190UH DVD / CD Player into the Bushmaster via the TOSLink 2 connector using some no name Jimmy optical cable hanging about and played the Hybrid Soundsystem 01 CD 01 compilation and compared it to the Squeezebox Touch.

The Squeezebox Touch has a more controlled bass compared to the CDP, in my mind the CDP though might have a slight edge on the Squeezebox in the detail, but it's hardly discernible, thing is tho what I am getting at is that the DAC can make even a shitty CD Player like the LG sound great, I am sure once my external Mains Cable Guy PSU comes for the Squeezebox things will be a whole lot different.

Russ

MartinT

07-06-2012, 17:04

Sounding good, Stan. Early days but I think you hit the nail on the head when you claimed non-harshness with detail. Bags of presence, great extension and a nice soundstage. I'm listening to streams on the Logitech Touch right now, going to put Avatar Blu-ray on next as it has a superb soundtrack.

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Bushmaster.jpg

Canetoad

07-06-2012, 17:48

Oooh! Silver! :eyebrows:

I have to wait 24 hours to pick mine up from the local PO. :steam:

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 18:04

I have to wait 24 hours to pick mine up from the local PO. :steam:
I paid extra to get it to your door the next day. Why do you have to go to the local PO? Do they operate a different delivery service where you are?

Canetoad

07-06-2012, 18:13

No Stan, I wasn't home for the delivery. :doh:

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 18:18

Aah well, it will be worth the wait. Just don't empty the drinks cabinet in frustration. You'll need to consult it for further advise once the Bushmaster is fired up ;).

Canetoad

07-06-2012, 18:18

Martin, Are you using your PSU from the Caiman with the Bushmaster?

MartinT

07-06-2012, 18:27

No Bernie, I'm using it as delivered with the 12V PSU. I don't want too many variables to change at once.

Stan - what is the maximum voltage the Bushmaster will actually take, and is there any advantage (as there is with the Caiman) in going higher than 12V?

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 18:29

If you want a couple of power supply upgrade tips, look at getting one of THIS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180794713563?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649). It was made for the Bushmaster.
The Mark Grant DC filter is also a great item to consider if you want to use a mains connected power supply. I can't find the link on his site right now, but hopefully Mark reads this and provides a link.
I have tested and used all these items for several months and can confirm they are well worth the money spent on them. In a noisy environment they really show their true performance raising ability.

Reid Malenfant

07-06-2012, 18:33

<snip> going to put Avatar Blu-ray on next as it has a superb soundtrack.

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Bushmaster.jpg
Just a damn shame that the Sony & just about every other player out there only spit the non lossy stream out the HDMI socket :( They don't pay the license, they don't get the goods :rolleyes:

Still I guess it did sound pretty good until I plugged an Oppo BD95 in :eyebrows:

Fi-Wi

07-06-2012, 18:34

Yes, I'd like to know as well if I can use my 15V Best of 2 Worlds linear psu + SBooster for the Bushmaster and if it will benefit from it.

Mark Grant sells it here (http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=403&zenid=ndca68ud1pjt37ib2bni976al6) as wel.

Stratmangler

07-06-2012, 18:38

Do you mean one of these Stan?

http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=270

MartinT

07-06-2012, 18:40

Excellent, Stan. I've ordered a battery pack.

I have the Bushmaster PSU plugged into the Power Plant P10 and the noise floor is vanishingly low, however I'd rather keep an SMPS away from my system power so when I get the battery pack the PSU can go into dirty mains.

MartinT

07-06-2012, 18:43

The sound from Avatar via co-ax digital into the Bushmaster is highly vivid, Mark. Some of the bass energy is quite stunning and far tighter than I got from the Caiman.

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 18:46

Yes, I'd like to know as well if I can use my 15V Best of 2 Worlds linear psu + SBooster for the Bushmaster and if it will benefit from it.
Yes you can use it. Whether is it beneficial is for you to write a review on ;).

Do you mean one of these Stan?

http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=270
That's the one. Using that with my own power supply I got battery like performance reading on my noise measurements at the DC socket on the Bushmaster.

Fi-Wi

07-06-2012, 18:48

Did you only test the SBooster or the 15V psu as well in conjunction with the Bushmaster Stan?

Reid Malenfant

07-06-2012, 18:50

The sound from Avatar via co-ax digital into the Bushmaster is highly vivid, Mark. Some of the bass energy is quite stunning and far tighter than I got from the Caiman.
You know I wouldn't be able to deny that, it's just a shame that you aren't getting the full kit & caboodle in the way of super dooper data stream fed to it.

The Sony simply can't do it as it's not allowed to :doh:

I guess you are mixing it down from the multichannel soundtrack, I guess the same applies unfortunately.

As I say though, before I bought the Oppo that does decode everything, I still thought it sounded very good indeed :)

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 18:55

Did you only test the SBooster or the 15V psu as well in conjunction with the Bushmaster Stan?
I have been testing all sorts of power supplies and combination, and they all worked extremely well. So if anyone has a Mark Grant, Lurcher( as sold by MCRU), or Paul Haynes PSU, they are all worth hanging onto. The plug connection is different on the Bushmaster, but I saw some suitable adapters listed on Mark Grant's website.

Mark Grant

07-06-2012, 20:55

If you want a couple of power supply upgrade tips, look at getting one of THIS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180794713563?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649). It was made for the Bushmaster.
That looks interesting.:)
How many mAh does the bushmaster draw at 12 vdc so people can work out how long a battery would last between charges?
I remember from earlier in the thread that the Bushmaster is a very low power device.

The Mark Grant DC filter is also a great item to consider if you want to use a mains connected power supply. I can't find the link on his site right now, but hopefully Mark reads this and provides a link.
I have tested and used all these items for several months and can confirm they are well worth the money spent on them. In a noisy environment they really show their true performance raising ability.

I will add some links to products on Friday or maybe Saturday as soon as some stock is available.

A 5 star review in Hi-Fi choice has caused a bit of a stock shortage this month, which is excellent. I will be up to date with orders tomorrow hopefully.

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 21:03

That looks interesting.:)
How many mAh does the bushmaster draw at 12 vdc so people can work out how long a battery would last between charges?

About 70mA at 12V.

Reid Malenfant

07-06-2012, 21:09

About 70mA at 12V.
So approximately 12 hours with a 1Ah cell. Most are normally quoted at a rate of discharge at a 20 hour rate, that's pretty damn good :)

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 21:21

One of the many so far undisclosed secrets behind the Bushmaster design is its frugal power requirement. Just like a Bushmaster, which can live off one meal for a very long time, the DAC is designed to consume a minimal amount of power. So you can take the DAC with a battery pack and a laptop equipped with SSD drive, plus your headphone out and about and have hours of fun before the laptop needs recharging. It might be one of the biggest portable DAC around, but just imagine the looks you'll get using one of them in the park with say a HD800 on a hot sunny day :eyebrows:.

MartinT

07-06-2012, 21:25

I'll rig up a 'Y' switch so that either charging or running from battery can be selected, but never running from the PSU. Simple enough.

StanleyB

07-06-2012, 21:55

That particular battery pack that I linked to has a " battery charged" indicator, which is very handy.

jonnyd

08-06-2012, 07:47

Do you mean one of these Stan?

http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=270

That's the one. Using that with my own power supply I got battery like performance reading on my noise measurements at the DC socket on the Bushmaster.

What are your thoughts people, would the SBooster, the battery pack which Stan recommended, or a mains conditioner at around the same price (£30) make a bigger difference initially? I know the SBooster has an easy return policy, but value your thoughts before I decide.

Thanks.

jandl100

08-06-2012, 08:12

Jamtoast

08-06-2012, 09:25

It's just my opinion, but I think Stan and his Bushmaster DAC would be best served by putting review-like comments in the forum's review section!

You're probably right but FAR OUT it's been nice to see this thread turn back to matters of SOUND. :rolleyes:

Jabberwocky

08-06-2012, 12:59

Stanley is dispatching mine today :cool:
I decided I couldn't wait for the undetermined graphic upgrade - even thought the debate here has been most entertaining and some good stuff has come out.
Can't wait to try it :eek:

MartinT

08-06-2012, 13:05

I find I can't even see the legends from across the room :lol:

bobbasrah

08-06-2012, 13:12

I find I can't even see the legends from across the room :lol:

Have you tried opening the curtains or switching on the light yet ?;)

MartinT

09-06-2012, 11:14

Audio Out Sockets

Just a small request for the future, Stan: the line out sockets are very close to each other causing cables with locking collars (I use Tellurium Q Black cables from the Bushmaster) to foul each other. Just 2mm more clearance would be appreciated :)

StanleyB

09-06-2012, 11:16

Is that 2mm either side of the socket, or all together?

MartinT

09-06-2012, 11:25

2mm aditional spacing between the sockets. Or go for 3mm and anything should fit :)

StanleyB

09-06-2012, 11:29

OK I shall make note of that. If you can email me the same info I can save it in my "mod".

jonnyd

09-06-2012, 11:30

It's just my opinion, but I think Stan and his Bushmaster DAC would be best served by putting review-like comments in the forum's review section! - rather than losing them on a general discussion thread with getting on for 1000 posts already.

Herewith a review thread in the review section! http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18278 :)

Hi, if this was directed at my previous question, then im sorry for posting in the wrong place, I'll refer to the review section instead.

Cheers,

Jon

tfonseca

10-06-2012, 17:46

There will be any discounts for Caiman users? ;)

Marco

10-06-2012, 18:07

Hi Tiago,

Welcome to AoS :)

Before going any further, please go to the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community, by telling us what system you use and what music you like, as this procedure is required of all members.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

brian2957

10-06-2012, 19:33

StanleyB

10-06-2012, 20:01

Hi Brian,

no you can't. Contact Mark Grant for details of the Bushmaster power supply. He has them in stock according to the information he posted in another thread at http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18278

brian2957

10-06-2012, 20:03

Thanks Stan.
Brian.

Gazjam

11-06-2012, 19:26

Stan , just ordered a Bushmaster , can you please tell me if I can use this Caiman upgraded PSU on the Bushmaster.
http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=345
Thanks,
Brian.

Be good to hear your thoughts on it Brian, your system sounded very good with the Caiman in place.

The Vinyl Adventure

11-06-2012, 19:52

Mines on the way soon!
Happy days
thanks again Stan :)

Im just worried its gonna be better than the majik dsi now ;)

nightyy

11-06-2012, 20:03

Also just ordered mine! Thanks, Stan

Gesendet von meinem XT910 mit Tapatalk 2

brian2957

11-06-2012, 20:09

Be good to hear your thoughts on it Brian, your system sounded very good with the Caiman in place.

Hi Gary , I will post my thoughts when the Bushmaster has some hours on it .
You have PM .
Brian.

RoboCopper

11-06-2012, 20:13

Also just ordered mine! Thanks, Stan

Gesendet von meinem XT910 mit Tapatalk 2

I like your systems.

I am sorry now that I have broken my 7520 (my soldering skills), later sold Caiman, but apparently last silver BM is in my terrarium, handed personally by Stan the Man.

this one http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ckBlasgNSzg/SFh9zgRfjUI/AAAAAAAAGVQ/Mkgomh8hGVA/s400/Snake+Bite.jpgwill stay for long in Primary system, as I got bitten by Bushmaster

:lol::violin:

MartinT

11-06-2012, 20:54

I was testing the Bushmaster with my new Blu-ray player tonight, playing Serenity. Ye gods, the bass is simply magnificent and it truly felt like I still had the REL Studio II subwoofer in my system. Not typical overblown AV boominess, but tight and very chest-thumping. This is an area where a few days' burn-in has improved the BM even over its out-of-the-box performance.

Alan

12-06-2012, 10:35

Hi Stan,

The Bushmaster looks really interesting, congratulations on another success! It's been a while since I ran a Caiman, but I've had all of your DACs (un modded though - a bit beyond me) and I have thought them to be excellent. Just one question if I may?

When I gatorized my Caiman, it was unsuccessful. I removed the gator board and all was well once again. I was running a twin pot passive pre into an NVA amp.

I now use a lightspeed LDR attenuator and still the NVA, so my question is will the Bushmaster likely be happy in this setup? I may have to try one and see, but you probably have a fair idea. Also -any future plans on USB? I no longer spin discs, so I'd need the new HiFace for the Bushmaster, but that's OK.

I apologise if I have missed the answer in this thread, I have tried to keep up! I saw some reference to LDRs probably being OK, but it's my amp that may be the issue here.

Gazjam

12-06-2012, 11:15

I like your systems.

I am sorry now that I have broken my 7520 (my soldering skills), later sold Caiman, but apparently last silver BM is in my terrarium, handed personally by Stan the Man.

this one http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ckBlasgNSzg/SFh9zgRfjUI/AAAAAAAAGVQ/Mkgomh8hGVA/s400/Snake+Bite.jpgwill stay for long in Primary system, as I got bitten by Bushmaster

:lol::violin:

Post of the Week! :)

StanleyB

12-06-2012, 14:11

The Bushmaster looks really interesting, congratulations on another success!
Sounds even better ;). Cheers for the heads up.

When I gatorized my Caiman, it was unsuccessful. I removed the gator board and all was well once again. I was running a twin pot passive pre into an NVA amp.
A don't have a NVA amp so I can't say with any level of certainty what the problem might have been.

I now use a lightspeed LDR attenuator and still the NVA, so my question is will the Bushmaster likely be happy in this setup?
It will be a case of suck it and see.

Also -any future plans on USB?
That'll be the Caiman MKII. But based on past experience don't hold your breath. I don't expect it to be ready this side of Christmas, but I could be wrong.

I saw some reference to LDRs probably being OK, but it's my amp that may be the issue here.
[/QUOTE]
I haven't tried a LDR, but I look forward to any tests results from anyone who has used it with the Bushmaster.

Alan

12-06-2012, 14:58

Thanks Stan, very good of you to reply. I expected a case of suck-it-and-see! Such are the trials of this hobby, auditioning new kit! :D

I just have to fund a few more ridiculously expensive parts for an amp project someone is doing for me before I get a Bushmaster, but I shall definitely want to trial one soon. I'll let you know how the LDR/NVA combo works with your new baby.

SteveW

12-06-2012, 16:36

Mines on the way soon!
Happy days
thanks again Stan :)

Im just worried its gonna be better than the majik dsi now ;)

Well, my order is in (despite negotiating dodgy wifi on my iPhone in Greece. That reminds me better get some cash out tonight whilst I still can!!')

Anyway Hamish ... Please let me know if it is a Linn DS beater... and really make my holiday !!
Steve

The Vinyl Adventure

12-06-2012, 16:46

Haha, will do ... The ds will of course still effectively be the source to it which IME with other dacs works well!
... Mull on that on why don't you ;)

SteveW

12-06-2012, 17:01

Haha, will do ... The ds will of course still effectively be the source to it which IME with other dacs works well!
... Mull on that on why don't you ;)

Ha.. Mull I will, over a Metaxa and ice. You'll have me spending more dosh yet you bugger.
Really looking forward to comparing the Bushmaster with my Lyngdorf amp built in Dac. Also, will now be able to input apple tv, Sony telly as well as Kenwood cd transport and another yet to be decided !

camtwister

13-06-2012, 09:01

Stan,

I understand that you plan to bring a new version of the Caiman to market in about 12 months or thereabouts. Are you able to say whether this will be placed above the Bushmaster in terms of sound quality in your product range? Thanks. Or will the new Caiman offer other input options and features to differentiate it from the Bushmaster? I'm planning upgrades!

Martinh

13-06-2012, 09:04

Hi Stan,

Just sent you a pm :)

cheers,

StanleyB

13-06-2012, 09:21

I understand that you plan to bring a new version of the Caiman to market in about 12 months or thereabouts. Are you able to say whether this will be placed above the Bushmaster in terms of sound quality in your product range? Thanks. Or will the new Caiman offer other input options and features to differentiate it from the Bushmaster? I'm planning upgrades!
The TC-7510 and Caiman+ had an identity problem. So by calling the new version the Bushmaster the twin optical and twin coax DAC in my range now has its own identity which makes it far easier for customers to figure out what kind of inputs are on the DAC.
The Caiman is known to have a USB, as well as optical and SPDIF. So it makes sense to continue that identification pattern.
I am trying not to overload my DACs with features. The main aim is for them to be able to connect emotionally with the user. More features mean more complicated engineering, which can then get out of hand. If you look at the feature laden DACs now on the market it is not clear if those features improve the sound quality or just increases the price in a sneaky way.
As for sound quality: nobody can accuse me of staying still with every new release. I'll keep pushing for better SQ for as long as I am in this business. But at the same time I shall also attempt to make any SQ improvement in a particular product line downwards compatible.

Martinh

13-06-2012, 11:40

Stan,

Email sent.

StanleyB

13-06-2012, 14:30

DAC sent Martin. By the way, my wife is having a closer look at those bath tubs you got on your site. I hope I can afford them :D.

Martinh

13-06-2012, 15:31

DAC sent Martin. By the way, my wife is having a closer look at those bath tubs you got on your site. I hope I can afford them :D.

Just had to put my prices up to help pay for my BM :lol::eek:

cheers for the great service Stan,

The Vinyl Adventure

13-06-2012, 16:19

Here you go Stan

just had a quick 5 mins at it in the studio... not perfect, but ill have another go when I have a little more time to play

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/_NIK3984.jpg

DSJR

13-06-2012, 21:33

Marco

14-06-2012, 04:47

Guys,

Just so you know, Steve's excellent review has been moved to Strokes of Genius, where it deservedly belongs:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18401

Great review, Steve! :clap:

Marco.

nightyy

14-06-2012, 08:45

I've been searching the two big threads now, and cannot find it:
Stan pointed to a PSU with battery capabilities (I think it was a link to Ebay)

Could you please lend me a hand on that one, i just cannot find it... :rolleyes:

StanleyB

14-06-2012, 09:04

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180794713563?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Martinh

14-06-2012, 09:24

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180794713563?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Just one point, if it's a LiPo battery inside, the nominal voltage will be around 11.1v, not 12V. Straight off the charger, the voltage will quickly drop to 11.1v and stay there, then it will drop off rapidly at the end of it's capacity.

Probably doesn't make a difference, but I thought I'd mention it.

Hopefully the unit will have a low voltage cut off circuit to avoid over discharging (this quickly kills this type of battery).

Cheers,

StanleyB

14-06-2012, 09:31

worrasf

14-06-2012, 09:38

[edit] To Steve, while you still have the Rega DAC

Can I ask please and since the facility is there, to try one or two of the different filter settings on the Rega (I think I've used filter "2" whenever I've used it). Ta muchly :)

--- I don't think I'm able to discern much of a difference in these filter settings, but I really would appreciate it if someone with more acute hearing could try this, if only once please :)

Hi David,

When I first got the REGA DAC I did indeed spend some time "playing" with the filters - there was a discernable difference between the 4 but I ended up sticking with filter 1 (whatever that is) as being the most satisfying overall. I certainly have not ever used different filter settings for different tracks or media.

Steve

nightyy

14-06-2012, 09:52

I tested that battery for months and it doesn't drop off to 11.1V on connection. The Bushmaster will start to indicate a low battery state at 11.1V in any case. On top of that the Bushmaster will start to refuse to operate if the voltage drops below 11V, and stop altogether at about 10.5V. I have built that protection code routine into the software.

Stan,
it seems you put a lot of effort into this kind of power/voltage management and monitoring. Do you yourself use the solution with a "intermediate" battery yourself?

I consider getting THAT ONE (http://www.ebay.de/itm/6800mAh-Super-Wiederaufladbare-Lithium-ion-Akku-Battery-Stromversorgung-/270854524556?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Akkus&hash=item3f10300e8c#ht_2467wt_1142) one. (EU plug, fast delivery from within germany, over-charge/discharge protection)
Should work all the same when in battery mode, right?

worrasf

14-06-2012, 09:52

Martinh

14-06-2012, 10:56

Hi Stan,

My BM just arrived - magnificent service! :)

I tested that battery for months and it doesn't drop off to 11.1V on connection. The Bushmaster will start to indicate a low battery state at 11.1V in any case. On top of that the Bushmaster will start to refuse to operate if the voltage drops below 11V, and stop altogether at about 10.5V. I have built that protection code routine into the software.

Thinking about it, the current draw is probably not enough to pull the voltage down to the nominal.

Is yours definitely a Li-Po battery or a Li-ion? Li-ion is the preferred cell for domestic use, as Li-Po cells are less tolerant of charging/discharging abuse.

Cheers,

StanleyB

14-06-2012, 13:39

Is yours definitely a Li-Po battery or a Li-ion? Li-ion is the preferred cell for domestic use, as Li-Po cells are less tolerant of charging/discharging abuse.
I have to rely on the ebay seller who says it is li-po. But I have only had to charge mine three times since the beginning of the year. It seems to last forever once charged...

MartinT

14-06-2012, 14:03

I've put an old 12V Maplin linear PSU into my Power Plant P10 for the time being. I will then compare it with the 12V battery when it arrives. Certainly the noise floor is lower and fine detail better with the linear PSU over the standard switched mode one.

MartinT

14-06-2012, 17:47

NRG

14-06-2012, 18:34

Yes, thanks for reminding me, I was going to mention it on the review thread. MP3's benefit from the BM greatly IMHO. Makes some much more bearable!

Covenant

14-06-2012, 19:11

Stratmangler

14-06-2012, 19:15

Why listen at 128 when 192kbps is available?:)

Why listen to MP3 when AAC streams are available? :eyebrows:

StanleyB

14-06-2012, 19:22

I think the guys are trying to point out how low in quality format you can go and still not be disappointed in the SQ results.

MartinT

14-06-2012, 19:28

Exactly. You missed the point that I was pretty much otherwise occupied and just turned the thing on without bothering much about picking the right stream.

Even for the car I rip mp3s to 320kbps, so 128k is certainly not my preferred resolution. However, the BM makes them more than bearable.

Stratmangler

14-06-2012, 19:34

NRG

14-06-2012, 19:38

192K isn't always available! ;) neither is AAC double ;)

The Vinyl Adventure

14-06-2012, 19:58

Has anyone noticed how forgiving of low bitrate mp3 format the Bushmaster is? I'm listening to Radio Paradise from the Touch in 128kbps and it really doesn't sound too bad at all while I'm beavering away around the house.

This is what I have been banging on about my hifi as a whole ...
You stick crap in, and whilst crap comes out its smooth and doesn't need much of a wipe!
An attribute in hifi that people often seem to quick to dismiss in my opinion, favouring the "ultimately revealing" "shows you all the inadequacies" route ... Daft IMO ..
The BM seems like that sort of gear too ... But that is of course in my system!

Have you tried plugging in any high end source - whatever you use (I'm not sure) an comparing it to its internal dac (if possible) ...

MartinT

15-06-2012, 06:18

Have you tried plugging in any high end source - whatever you use (I'm not sure) an comparing it to its internal dac (if possible) ...

Not directly, Hamish, but I've tried a number of sources from my new Pioneer Blu-ray player as a transport (CDs, DVD-As, SACDs) and they all sound very good. The BM can't match my Ayre C-5xe MP player with its minimum phase filter, but then that's a very unfair comparison (£4k versus £200 = 5% of the price). What the BM loses to the Ayre is ultimate dynamic clout.

However, for the sources that I use with the BM - Sky HD, Blu-ray, Logitech Touch - it's an outstanding DAC and has seriously improved my enjoyment of all those sources.

StanleyB

15-06-2012, 06:30

What the BM loses to the Ayre is ultimate dynamic clout.
Do you know by any chance what the maximum RMS output voltage level is on the Ayre? I have found out that a couple of designers have been cheating on the scale of the dynamic range of their products by increasing the output voltage from its 2Vrms level. By boosting the output by a factor of 3dB or even 6dB you can artificially create a perception of increased dynamics.
I am not saying that the Are does the same, but it is not an uncommon practice these days.

MartinT

15-06-2012, 06:34

Notwithstanding your comment about how hard the BM was to program to get the switching & LED functions working, Stan, I would like to submit an idea for discussion for a future firmware upgrade:

I am often frustrated that I can't verify what sampling rate the DAC is actually receiving and I would like there to be an option to view it, so I propose the following (shoot me down if it's not possible, Stan):

- Enter sampling rate view mode (rapid two-click or very long click on Select button)
- Red LED flashes to indicate data view mode
- LED1 indicates 44/48kHz
- LEDs 1 & 2 indicate 88/96kHz
- LEDs 1,2,3 indicate 176/192kHz
- LED 4 off indicates 16-bit, on indicates 24-bit
- Quick click of the Select button reverts to normal operation

Of course, this depends on the DAC registers holding this data but I would bet that they probably do - plenty of DACs on the market display this kind of info.

What do you think?

jandl100

15-06-2012, 06:35

Whee! 100 pages! :eek:

Not directly, Hamish, but I've tried a number of sources from my new Pioneer Blu-ray player as a transport (CDs, DVD-As, SACDs) and they all sound very good. The BM can't match my Ayre C-5xe MP player with its minimum phase filter, but then that's a very unfair comparison (£4k versus £200 = 5% of the price). What the BM loses to the Ayre is ultimate dynamic clout.

Interesting comment, Martin.

I guess I am not an "ultimate dynamic clout" kind of listener. I know a lot of folks are, though.
Having said that, I do listen to a bit of Big Music and I haven't heard any shortfall with the BM - on the contrary, as Martin says with his AV listening, it's very impressive!

For me, the transparent view into the recording space, the subtleties of low level detail, the insight into the musicians' intent, now that I am getting more familiar with the BM's presentation place the BM at the top of the digital pedestal for me. And that's compared to some very expensive competition.

As always, it depends on what you want and what you are listening out for. And system synergy probably counts for a lot, too.

The Ayre CX-7E cdp I had was certainly a pace'n'rhythm king, but it didn't do it for me in other ways. But then your 5XE is a fair old step up from the 7XE, I think.
EDIT: see post below also. :)

jandl100

15-06-2012, 06:43

Ah, interesting, I'm reading the Stereophile review of the BM firmware upgrade of Martin's Ayre 5XE player .... "more string tone, less bite" .... "more focussed and a lot more relaxed" ...."the ability to hear deeper into the soundstage" .... "superior flow ... this was no trivial improvement".

OK, so it's not comparing it with my old 7XE, but still the changes noted are addressing some - no, most, maybe all - of the issues I had with the 7XE.

That Ayre player of yours sounds like it might suit me, too, Martin! :)
But I remain happy ecstatic with the BM. :) It suits me, beautifully!

MartinT

15-06-2012, 06:51

Do you know by any chance what the maximum RMS output voltage level is on the Ayre?

From the user manual:
Maximum Output Level (PCM)
4.10 V rms – balanced outputs
2.05 V rms – single-ended outputs
Maximum Output Level (DSD)
2.00 V rms – balanced outputs
1.00 V rms – single-ended outputs

I use the balanced outputs exclusively. There are technical reasons why SACD has lower output than PCM discs, but that's not relevant here. I have a test CD that has all kinds of least significant bit and noise floor tests and there doesn't seem to be any cheating going on. To be honest, Charlie Hansen seems to be a very capable designer and I doubt that he would do such a thing. He has a reputation not far short of Nelson Pass. Remember that for a long time the Ayre was the only player to receive a coveted A+ rating from Stereophile. It's not for no reason that I bought this player and remains the best disc spinner I've heard.