View Full Version : Beresford Bushmaster DAC
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7504/bushmaster2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/bushmaster2.jpg/)
This is still my favourite
Mark Grant
30-05-2012, 11:20
That's also my favourite, nice and simple.
+1 for Werners design. Like the typeface and the less cluttered layout. Don't think that multicoloured LEDs and recessed switches are really necessary (although I'll probably buy one in any event if the SQ is as good as intended and having previously been a happy Beresford customer).
I like the cool blue LEDs of the TC7520 as they go with the rest of my gear but i guess thats just selfish...
Now if Stan could only do one in brushed aluminium/grey then we'd really be talking. (Stan - Fancy making a Ltd edition silver one?)
icehockeyboy
30-05-2012, 11:42
...or a hairdresser who specialises in Brazilians! :eyebrows:
Excellent! :lol:
I can dig it.
More industrial looking which is to my taste.
Less is more..as they say.
By the way, I did that in iPhoto!
I agree with Verner re the name, Bushmaster to me conjures up images of an Australian bloke in a hat adorned with corks! Not really hifi..................:eyebrows:
It's a motor operated machine gun or 'chain gun', found on helicoptors and armoured vehicles. As well as a type of deadly snake which I think is where Stan has got the name from.
Werner Berghofer
30-05-2012, 13:28
It's a motor operated machine gun [...] As well as a type of deadly snake
I see it's a well chosen name for something which is destined to bring joy (= music) to the people.
Werner.
I see it's a well chosen name for something which is destined to bring joy (= music) to the people. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Werner.
Hi Werner,
Hope you don't mind me editing your post to take the 'sting' out of it as I read it as being humourous ;) .
Dave.
Werner Berghofer
30-05-2012, 13:36
Remco,
I think for a lot of people the looks are very important. They must be in line with the (expected) performance. At this moment that is not the case IMO.
thank you so much for emphasizing this!
Werner.
Werner Berghofer
30-05-2012, 13:41
Dave,
Hope you don't mind me editing your post
do whatever makes you feel better, but please don't ever edit my posts, if the forum software privileges permit you doing this. Guess it's pretty obvious that I don't like smilies or emoticons. My statement was not meant to sound humourous, but sarcastical.
Werner.
Dave,
do whatever makes you feel better, but please don't ever edit my posts, if the forum software privileges permit you doing this. Guess it's pretty obvious that I don't like smilies or emoticons. My statement was not meant to sound humourous, but sarcastical.
Werner.
:hmm:
Werner Berghofer
30-05-2012, 14:28
Dave,
:hmm:
yeah, written communication in a foreign language has its pitfalls! Sorry, but my posting wasn’t meant to sound angry, offensive or insulting.
Werner.
Let's be cool, guys, and direct our feedback to Stan as he is the one requesting it. In typical brainstorm manner, don't criticise the ideas or the person, just make a note of them.
Werner Berghofer
30-05-2012, 14:31
Martin,
Let's be cool, guys
:peace: :oops: :sorry: :grouphug:
Werner.
Lads, hold the weddin' !!!, this is my v first post and i'm doing it in anger. This forum to my understanding is for discussion of hi fi and possibly related matters to help and aid members to learn of new/other things related to music. I don't know but gather that Werner and Stan have previous?? but to take the forum to the level Werner has is to my mind bordering on the rude and disrespectful.
I have booked my Bushmaster with Stan and look forward to testing/discovering it's worth. I'll take my chances based on the other products ive bought from him, and am extremely pissed that discussion of aesthetics has been brought to this level. My first and probably last post will ask Werner to absent himself in a manner not devoid of carnality.
this is my v first post
Oh dear...:rolleyes:
No worries Werner, and your design ideas as a professional in the industry are highly appreciated.
Let's just remember the Ford Edsel - not all designers are created equal!
Hi Tom,
Whilst I agree with some of what you have said we should to make allowances for the fact that English isn't Werner's native language (my apologies Werner ;)). Even when one is absolutely fluent in a language that's not native to you it can sometimes be difficult to convey emotions and concepts, and equally it can lead to misrepresentation of emotions. I think this is what is happening here. Unfortunately for Werner he can come across as a bit blunt (again, my apologies Werner) on occasions.
Werner is particularly happy with the performance of his Schiit DAC and Headphone Amp and he has obviously arrived at this conclusion via auditioning. Werner has had previous experience with Stan's products and he has found the headphone amp in these products to be lacking somewhat. It's his personal opinion and I'm sure Stan is not going to fall on his sword over it, after all you can't please all of the people all of the time... ;)
As for the aesthetics, Stan has already stated that he may make minor alterations for the better once the Bushmaster is out there making him some money, and that is what it is all about after all... :cool:
Hi Tom,
Whilst I agree with some of what you have said we should to make allowances for the fact that English isn't Werner's native language (my apologies Werner ;)). Even when one is absolutely fluent in a language that's not native to you it can sometimes be difficult to convey emotions and concepts, and equally it can lead to misrepresentation of emotions. I think this is what is happening here. Unfortunately for Werner he can come across as a bit blunt (again, my apologies Werner) on occasions.
Werner is particularly happy with the performance of his Schiit DAC and Headphone Amp and he has obviously arrived at this conclusion via auditioning. Werner has had previous experience with Stan's products and he has found the headphone amp in these products to be lacking somewhat. It's his personal opinion and I'm sure Stan is not going to fall on his sword over it, after all you can't please all of the people all of the time... ;)
As for the aesthetics, Stan has already stated that he may make minor alterations for the better once the Bushmaster is out there making him some money, and that is what it is all about after all... :cool:
An excellent post Tom and just what I was going to write.
I always look forward to Werner's posts. They are to the point and so much better written than many of the posts on British forums; so much so that it would appear an indictment of UK education and an endorsement of the German model.
I too have never used a smilie, emoticon or "LOL" in my life and hope I never need to. One should be able to convey one's meaning without such artificial aids, Werner does this admirably - although I agree he can appear a little blunt at times (another apology Werner).
Werner, please keep them coming.
Although I could live with the initial Bushmaster model, I can now see the benefit of some of the '' improved" models. Please keep them coming too...
I now see why I wasn't an Industrial Designer.
Bw to all,
Richard
sq225917
30-05-2012, 15:23
Sorry Werner, but I disagree. While that might hold true for display on computer screens and projected images, in print there is never enough dynamic range for the eye to struggle to resolve. Any print issue would relate to the opacity of white ink on a black substrate and the choice of correct print stock and ink for the task in hand. Technically the eye has more than enough dynamic range to spare, though it's easy to understand how that myth has been carried on through the years.
I'm not in anyway inclined to like or dislike you because of your profession, but to think you are the only person in the discussion who is trained in graphic design, typography or has worked in fields relating to photometry, specifically the development of HDRI rendering solutions for 3D applications would be incorrect.
An excellent post Tom...
Who's Tom? The person you were quoting is called Dave! ;)
Marco.
Ah, this Tom...
Lads, hold the weddin' !!!, this is my v first post and i'm doing it in anger. This forum to my understanding is for discussion of hi fi and possibly related matters to help and aid members to learn of new/other things related to music. I don't know but gather that Werner and Stan have previous?? but to take the forum to the level Werner has is to my mind bordering on the rude and disrespectful.
I have booked my Bushmaster with Stan and look forward to testing/discovering it's worth. I'll take my chances based on the other products ive bought from him, and am extremely pissed that discussion of aesthetics has been brought to this level. My first and probably last post will ask Werner to absent himself in a manner not devoid of carnality.
Hi Tom,
Welcome to AoS :)
Before going any further, please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community, telling us what system you use and what music you like, as indeed you were asked to do in the email confirmation you received, after registering. This procedure is required of all members.
Cheers, dude! :cool:
Marco.
Dabbling again, minor tweak to my previous...thinking in terms of colour balance?
No change of current components (which Stan has no doubt bought in by the bucket load) apart form change of LED colour.
Good thing is the blue ones he has probably already bought prepping for manufacture can still be used for the Caiman ;)
*EDIT*
The blue LEDs seperated the gold on the volume knob and the select button. Looking again this maybe gave it a better balance?
Too much gold now and no matching blue LEDs for the rest of your kit! Dunno, anyways its just for fun :)
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9850/finalcs.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/254/finalcs.jpg/)
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7483/bushmaster2u.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/bushmaster2u.jpg/)
Lads, hold the weddin' !!!, this is my v first post and i'm doing it in anger. This forum to my understanding is for discussion of hi fi and possibly related matters to help and aid members to learn of new/other things related to music. I don't know but gather that Werner and Stan have previous?? but to take the forum to the level Werner has is to my mind bordering on the rude and disrespectful.
I have booked my Bushmaster with Stan and look forward to testing/discovering it's worth. I'll take my chances based on the other products ive bought from him, and am extremely pissed that discussion of aesthetics has been brought to this level. My first and probably last post will ask Werner to absent himself in a manner not devoid of carnality.
Hiya Tom, welcome aboard mate.
Stan welcomes discussion of his products on here so its cool.
Werners given his opinion like the rest of us which is fine too I'd say.
He's also apologised for any (unintentional) offence those delicate souls might have suffered. ;)
Its easy to forget I guess there's folk from all over on AOS and sometimes we can be separated by the same language!
(ps I like smileys)
Dave,
do whatever makes you feel better, but please don't ever edit my posts, if the forum software privileges permit you doing this. Guess it's pretty obvious that I don't like smilies or emoticons. My statement was not meant to sound humourous, but sarcastical.
Werner.
Mmm, fair enough Werner, I apologise :) . I supect the triple disadvatage of posting in a foreign language, being blunt and direct by nature and disliking smilies greatly increases the risk of your posts being misunderstood but that's your choice - you're a big boy and I'm sure you can handle any misunderstanding that might occur.
I seem to recall you threatening to withdraw from AoS a short while ago because you were unhappy with some of the responses some of your posts received? :scratch: .
Please stick around, as others have requested, as your posts are inciteful and greatly appreciated but please don't get upset when you receive equally blunt responses.
Cheers,
Dave.
Mmm, fair enough Werner, I apologise :) . I supect the triple disadvatage of posting in a foreign language, being blunt and direct by nature and disliking smilies greatly increases the risk of your posts being misunderstood but that's your choice - you're a big boy and I'm sure you can handle any misunderstanding that might occur.
I seem to recall you threatening to withdraw from AoS a short while ago because you were unhappy with some of the responses some of your posts received? :scratch: .
Please stick around, as others have requested, as your posts are inciteful and greatly appreciated but please don't get upset when you receive equally blunt responses.
Cheers,
Dave.
Agree with this.
Everyday's a schoolday though :)
Why is it called Bushmaster? Just curious.
Why is it called Bushmaster? Just curious.
Stan's previous dac was called the caiman which is some kind of tropical crocodile. The Bushmaster is a kind of viper snake, continuing the reptilian theme I guess.
The 7520 however is a small rabbit. Just kidding.
bobbasrah
30-05-2012, 16:25
Stan's previous dac was called the caiman which is some kind of tropical crocodile. The Bushmaster is a kind of viper snake, continuing the reptilian theme I guess.
Can I propose a Cameron or Clegg model next Stan ?
Covenant
30-05-2012, 16:29
Despite the comments getting a bit sharp there are, I think, some valid points about the design. The original looked old fashioned and cluttered. All the alternatives are better IMHO but Werner's looks very upmarket and professional. I would prefer the words Beresford and Bushmaster to be in the same typeface as the input selectors though.
I like this:
Here’s my proposal:
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/bushmaster.gif
But the words "Beresford" and "Bushmaster" simply MUST be in the same typeface, otherwise it looks very amateur. I would also reduce 'headphones' to simply 'phones', as I think it looks less 'fussy', and put 'Digital to Analog Converter' also in lower-case text.
Marco.
I like this:
But the words "Beresford" and "Bushmaster" simply MUST be in the same typeface, otherwise it looks very amateur. I would also reduce 'headphones' to simply 'phones', as I think it looks less 'fussy', and put 'Digital to Analog Converter' also in lower-case text.
Marco.
I agree, and this harks back to what I said about consistency of typography. There shouldn't really be any more than perhaps 2 types of font and font size. I would also use the generally accepted icons for power and headphones.
That's cool, Lee. I kinda like written words, more than symbols, though. It gives it a more 'human' touch, IMO, but that's very much a minor consideration :)
Marco.
That's cool, Lee. I kinda like written words, more than symbols, though. It gives it a more 'human' touch, IMO, but that's very much a minor consideration :)
Marco.
Oh I agree, but where space is a little limited I'd go with the symbols, especially as they are so well known.
I think you could get 'phones' in, though, without too much trouble...
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
30-05-2012, 17:17
I think I've posted before about the name, that a Bushmaster is a pit viper which is renowned for it's ruthless attack. This is rather an apt name, I'd have thought, as it could refer to musical attack & also to the offensive that Stan seems intent on unleashing on his competitors.
StanleyB
30-05-2012, 17:59
I think I've posted before about the name, that a Bushmaster is a pit viper which is renowned for it's ruthless attack. This is rather an apt name, I'd have thought, as it could refer to musical attack & also to the offensive that Stan seems intent on unleashing on his competitors.
I see we are smoking from the same tree :eyebrows:.
Having taken some hours off to go lake scouting with an angling friend, and then tucking away a 16 oz steak for lunch, I have now found time to catch up on proceedings.
A few things we have to row back on:
1. I changed the typeface in Bushmaster from that I used in the word Caiman. Judging from that move, nobody ever objected to the Caiman font and style. So maybe I should go back to that style and drop any additional text under Bushmaster. i.e. drop the Digital to Analog Converter bit.
2. I want to keep the logo font separate from anything else. Our type setter seemed to have accidentally switched font there, and I stupidly didn't notice that. The origin of the reason for using the type of font and style in the original and correct logo is based on reasons of the past. Heritage is important to me, so I don't want to amend that part.
As for the remainder:
3. The text layout at the bottom of the case that Werner has suggested looks quite good.
4. The words headphone and power can be replaced by symbols. I am flexible on that, so I shall keep monitoring the opinions for and against that part.
5. But "input" should be "select". I can see many of my customers wondering what "input" does. Yes, I do get email queries that have me wondering why the query poser doesn't get it. I prefer to try to reduce that extra level of possible confusion.
6. There should be channel numbers above the LEDs as Gary has added in his design change. Oherwise it will be hard to figure out which input is in operation.
The name Bushmaster was chosen to reflect the environment that I was born into.I posted some years ago a picture of me with a dispatched Bushmaster. http://www.homehifi.co.uk/aos/watooka1.jpg
Why use Bushmaster though? The DAC has some options like music search, stealth LED mode, sleep, etc. The sort of things that a hunter would recognize.
But let's not overlook the fact that it is not everyday that you the consumer gets a chance to have an input in the design of an item. So let's make the best use of it, and show other forums why AoS is so much different and better :).
Werner Berghofer
30-05-2012, 18:26
Simon,
While that might hold true for display on computer screens and projected images, in print there is never enough dynamic range for the eye to struggle to resolve.
well, if this effect would exist only on computer screens and projected images, the awareness about it hardly could be at least 200 years old as I stated in my first reply to you (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=331015&postcount=495).
This has nothing to do with technology or the light reflecting properties of the material used for printing, but is deeply anchored in the way visual perception works in the human brain. Bright shapes and areas appear smaller if they are surrounded by dark areas (“negative”), while the same shapes and areas of identical sizes as in the negative example appear bigger if they are placed in dark colour on a bright background (“positive”). (In German this is called “simultaneous contrast”, I’m sorry but I don’t know the proper English equivalent.) Therefore in competent typography the horizontal space between the glyphs (“letterspacing”) as well as the vertical distance between the type baselines (“leading”) needs to be increased if bright text is placed on dark background.
the development of HDRI rendering solutions for 3D applications
Unfortunately a lot of software developers and engineers know very little about perception and design. Again: I don’t talk about software development, printing or projection technology here, but about the way visual perception works. Do yourself a favour and google for “optical illusions” and “white text on black background” or consult any serious website dealing with graphical design for more on this topic.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/wp/2012/simultankontrast.gif
Werner.
StanleyB
30-05-2012, 18:28
Now if Stan could only do one in brushed aluminium/grey then we'd really be talking. (Stan - Fancy making a Ltd edition silver one?)
Show me the money :D.
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/TC-7530/TC-7530DCS.jpg
Reid Malenfant
30-05-2012, 18:36
Show me the money :D.
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/TC-7530/TC-7530DCS.jpg
That looks very nice Stan, except for the black power button ;)
That just messes it right up imo...
StanleyB
30-05-2012, 18:50
The switch maker doesn't make a silver knob unfortunately, and I didn't manage to find any local supplier who did make a suitable switch with a silver knob. I only made 10 of the silver ones for now just to trial. i'll worry about the silver knob and a silver mass production version later on. Right now I am trying to concentrate on the launch and follow up action.
Show me the money :D
Much, MUCH nicer in that brushed silver finish :)
Lads, hold the weddin' !!!, this is my v first post and i'm doing it in anger. This forum to my understanding is for discussion of hi fi and possibly related matters to help and aid members to learn of new/other things related to music. I don't know but gather that Werner and Stan have previous?? but to take the forum to the level Werner has is to my mind bordering on the rude and disrespectful.
I have booked my Bushmaster with Stan and look forward to testing/discovering it's worth. I'll take my chances based on the other products ive bought from him, and am extremely pissed that discussion of aesthetics has been brought to this level. My first and probably last post will ask Werner to absent himself in a manner not devoid of carnality.
To be honest, Tom, I think Marco has been pretty lenient on you. The barefaced cheek of posting the above as your first post, about two respected individuals here on AoS, when you clearly DON'T know the history, takes my breath away. This is a discussion and it implies different opinions, all of which are welcome. For your next post, try reeling it in a little.
Show me the money :D.
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/TC-7530/TC-7530DCS.jpg
:stalks:
That, to me, looks so much classier than black. Looking good Stan.
Stan, not much to add here regarding the design, but I just wanted to say what a top bloke you are for keeping the members updated and being so receptive to ideas about the design of the Bushmaster.
Hats off to you sir.
(I do like the silver one though)
Reid Malenfant
30-05-2012, 19:42
The switch maker doesn't make a silver knob unfortunately, and I didn't manage to find any local supplier who did make a suitable switch with a silver knob. I only made 10 of the silver ones for now just to trial. i'll worry about the silver knob and a silver mass production version later on. Right now I am trying to concentrate on the launch and follow up action.
I agree wholeheartedly :)
But maybe when you get more time & things are going well you might alter the power switch colour :)
I'm with both Martin & David, the silver front panel looks better imo. Strangely I probably wouldn't normally say that, but in this case I feel it does :D
StanleyB
30-05-2012, 20:09
As a small fish in a big pond, it is extremely expensive to make two versions. But I am experimenting with a removable front fascia. I am not sure if anyone else has tried that option in manufacturing of this type of procedure in large sized audio equipment. But it has been a common process with mp3 players and the like for many years. I felt that there is no harm in giving it a go with the Bushmaster.
I am even thinking of making the control software opensource, or at least publish the function of the pins on the microcontroller. So those far smarter than me can come up with some alternative coding and added functionality.
The Grand Wazoo
30-05-2012, 20:14
But I am experimenting with a removable front fascia
Excellent! - hi-fi with a double A-side. Black c/w Silver?!
StanleyB
30-05-2012, 20:19
It isn't possible to make the actual fascia reversible. But it can be unscrewed for real, unlike many other front plates that look removable but aren't that you normally see on various products. Some of them are molded plastic that look like removable whilst others have some parts glued to them, thus making it difficult to produce an aftermarket fascia.
I like Werner's more minimalist approach, with no gold and the aligned buttons (same as the Caiman). I prefer black simply because the rest of my system is black. The alternate fascia is a great idea for those who want something different but what about the case?
I'm not normally into silver, but that pic above looks stunning in my opinion. Oh gawd Stan, you've even got me tempted :eek:
I am even thinking of making the control software opensource, or at least publish the function of the pins on the microcontroller. So those far smarter than me can come up with some alternative coding and added functionality.
Stan,
I personally think that would be a great idea, a sort of two edged sword. It would, IMHO, appeal to potential new customers who enjoy 'improving' manufacturers stock products (thinking of Logitech Touch et al here) and any that did take up that option and posted their results would spread the Bushmaster word to parts that other marketing cannot reach ;) .
You might lose a bit of control over that aspect, which I'm sure you've thought about, but stand to gain greater sales in return.
There again, I've never run my own business so my opinion may not be worth much :lol:
Cheers,
Dave.
Show me the money :D.
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/TC-7530/TC-7530DCS.jpg
Put my name down for one of those please Stan!
The Grand Wazoo
30-05-2012, 20:39
I prefer that silver look too, for what it's worth.
Show me the money :D.
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/TC-7530/TC-7530DCS.jpg
This does look better, but it may be due to the contrast of black text on silver vs white text on black before.
Also the lighter, silver colour reveals the brushed effect more.
maxrob200
31-05-2012, 00:34
The silver looks great. Not too fussed about the colour of the power switch. Interchangeable front panel not a bad idea but would mean that Stan has to keep a stack of differnt panels in stock which would increase costs to no end, especially if more people preferred a certain finish over another in stock, IMO. Some DVD-drive manufacturers actually supply a beige and black front panel with their units to match the chassis case used :)
The silver looks great. Just lose the black on/off knob and replace it with one the same colour as the bigger one on the right, or perhaps a chrome one - job done (unless you want to change the Bushmaster font)! :)
Marco.
Been keeping all my boxes black this far, but I could easily live with the silver.
But why the red LED?
Simple power on / off rocker on the back of the case and the headphone input where the switch was?
Regards
Chris
barry-potter
31-05-2012, 07:19
an amalgam of your silver fascia and werners typography and a subdued blue led colour would look pretty cool i think, the big black power switch looks plain wrong and the fewer words the better. as previously mentioned, less is more, so the symbol for headphones and on/off would improve matters (in my opinion obviously).
i'm with werner on emoticons (loathe them) and people adding to/editing your own replies too. a big no-no:steam:
The Grand Wazoo
31-05-2012, 07:25
an amalgam of your silver fascia and werners typography and led colour would look pretty cool i think, the big black power switch looks plain wrong and the fewer words the better. as previously mentioned, less is more, so the symbol for headphones and on/off would improve matters (in my opinion obviously).
i'm with werner on emoticons (loathe them) and people adding to/editing your own replies too. a big no-no:steam:
Just to clear this up - DaveK did not edit Werner's post - he couldn't if he wanted to as he does not have the necessary permissions to do so.
What he did do was quote Werner & then edit the quote.
Like this:
an amalgam of your face and your arse would look pretty cool i think, the big black Licorice Allsort looks plain wrong and the fewer fried eggs the better. as previously mentioned, less is more, so having no DAC at all would improve matters (in my opinion obviously).
i'm with Margaret Thatcher on having Arthur Scargill shot (loathe him) and people adding salt & pepper & eating your own replies too. a big no-no:steam:
StanleyB
31-05-2012, 07:31
The red LED has multiple functions, and it was my idea to break up the monotonous line of blue.
The on/off switch has to be at the front. The new EU legislation on power consumption and disconnection of the DAC from the power source does imply that you need to fit the power switch in an accessible location. That means at the front in this case. If it is at the back it won't be easy to get to.
Why not turn the add-on box into a simple preamp-line driver, with say three inputs and a variable output (one or two sets of phonos as appropriate), selling for under £200 and able to drive remote power amps? Not what you had in mind, but may be ideal for the growing market in small active speakers out there, which at the lower end of the market should be encouraged I think :)
This seems a sensible option. It shouldn't push the price up too much, but increases the usefulness of the box considerably and makes it a product of interest to more customers.
It doesn't interest me at all , but having got so far how much would a basic phono stage add to the price - an extra chip and a few capacitors? "Basic" of course could set a very challenging standard - such is the hype in the audiophile market.
bobbasrah
31-05-2012, 07:45
For what it is worth (as opposed to FWIW - no smiley), I like the silver too, although the text alignment as both Gary and Werner proposed does look better than the slanted text IMHO.
The Black And White front that Werner proposed looked particularly neat, albeit that POWER looked easier on the eye than On : Off.
I guess that the parts such as power button and volume knob will be off the shelf though, so that will rather limit the options for economic manufacture at the target price.
Not sure that trying to centre the Model and Description over the volume knob should dictate the font and info as there is a lot of spare acreage on that faceplate. Bushmaster could be centralised with the rest right justified, or would that look too cluttered?
Plenty for Stan to consider though....
Really loving the silver version. Add my name to those who prefer Werner and Gary's word alignment etc. stan, is the brushed alu version a trial that you had made? Would you consider selling any of them? Would go very nicely with my silver Rotel RA-05....decisions decisions....
dave2010
31-05-2012, 07:56
Amazing this fashion thing. I really liked Stan's first attempt with black and gold around msg 423. Maybe black has gone out of fashion.
StanleyB
31-05-2012, 08:00
I have 8 pieces of the silver panel version left, which I am only sending out to AoS members inside the EU (and that still includes the UK... ahem.). So if you are not an AoS member and not in the EU, you'll have to wait your turn. Sorry.
IF there are any left over after that, I shall then consider requests from non-AoS members. To get on the "silver" list, send me an email from within the PM option. Your email goes into the waiting list.
Personally, I would do something with the lettering on the fascia. The emblems on the inputs are a little busy. Perhaps T1 T2 C1 and C2 would suffice?
Also, the headphone socket may be better labeled with a headphone icon.
I see no need for it to say Digital to Analog Converter. Why not just DAC? Perhaps then you could fit Bushmaster DAC on one line?
Also, everything seems to be in line on a horizontal plane except the select switch. I assume there is physical reason for this.
I agree with all of this: keep it simple and uncluttered.
Single line under Switch, LEDs and jack
Power Select Auto T1 T2 C1 C2 H - where "H" is the headphone sign.
No gold band on knob. Nothing above the knob
On the Left (Beresford) Bushmaster DAC
with "Bushmaster DAC" in a less bold version of the font used in the Trademark.
The mixing of serif and san-serif fonts is best left to the experienced eye of a typesetter.
Edit: Looking again, if you can bring yourself to do it, remove the line encircling "Beresford".
sq225917
31-05-2012, 08:07
Bright shapes and areas appear smaller if they are surrounded by dark areas (“negative”), while the same shapes and areas of identical sizes as in the negative example appear bigger if they are placed in dark colour on a bright background (“positive”). (In German this is called “simultaneous contrast”, I’m sorry but I don’t know the proper English equivalent.) Therefore in competent typography the horizontal space between the glyphs (“letterspacing”) as well as the vertical distance between the type baselines (“leading”) needs to be increased if bright text is placed on dark background.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/wp/2012/simultankontrast.gif
Werner.
I wasn't involved in the software (coding) end of things it was photometry research within the Rainbow Lab group at Cambridge Uni, researching how we perceive high dynamic range and more specifically synthesising pixel colour values using floating contrast ratios.
So make up your mind Werner which is it? If white shapes on black appear smaller then there's no need to space them out, because you'd effectively see a larger gap between them if the effect works as you claim. After all if white on black appears smaller then the surrounding black must be filling the space... ;-)
The effect you mention exists, but it only works where the brain has to interpolate values of colour because the item is too small to be wholly resolved by specific receptors within the eye causing the brain to have to make a best guess and fill in a value based on a stochastic sampling of the surrounding colour values- something we are very good at. In this instance then yup the averaging of the surrounding colour values can pull down or push up the 'estimated' value. But this only works in this way when something in genuinely too small to be resolved by the eye and it works in both directions.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Werner Berghofer
31-05-2012, 08:28
Chris,
Just to clear this up - DaveK did not edit Werner's post - he couldn't if he wanted to as he does not have the necessary permissions to do so.
thank you for this clarification. At first glance I had the impression that DaveK had edited my post, and this caused my obviously too rude and blunt reply. A few minutes later I understood that DaveK actually added emoticons to my post in his quote, which is something completely different than editing my original post. Nonetheless I think when quoting a post the original content must not be altered. The moment I realized what really had happened I wanted to change the inappropriate tone of my reply to DaveK, but then I noticed that my reply already had been quoted in the meantime by another AoS member. It’s an old rule of electronic communication which I cleary violated: If an email or a comment offends you, don’t hit the “Reply” button immediately.
I hearby want to take the chance to officially apologize for the general tone of my posts, which often is considered blunt and rude. I can assure you that it never has been my intention to insult anybody, especially Stanley Beresford. I’m grateful to Stan for making me aware of the importance of the digital to analogue conversion process, and I was able to make certain steps up the endless ladder of knowledge in digital music reproduction due to the very fair prices of Stan’s products and his outstanding and reliable customer service. I moved on and now use other equipment, but I shall keep in mind that my current gear is more expensive and bulkier than Stan’s products. On repeated times I have suggested to a lot of people to try Stan’s DACs, because they offer a great performance for a very reasonable price. In fact, the last time I did so was just this morning, as a guy from India who’s reading this thread asked me for a DAC recommendation.
Also in real life (and when communicating in my native language) I’m well known for being very direct, in-your-face, outspoken and forthright. A lot of people don’t appreciate this and turn away from me, but also a lot of people like me just for being the person I am – of course after they overcame their initial shock of encountering me. I’m not suitable for tactics and diplomacy, and in fact I don’t get along well with people who are behaving this way. For me this is a waste of precious time and energy, and there are endless possibilities for misunderstandings and even injuries, which could have been avoided if communication would have been done in an open and direct way. But I see and understand that being open and direct often pisses people off. I think there’s always the option to check back how a comment was meant to be understood, but if someone is already insulted or angry this path often might not be desirable.
When discussing matters or working in a team my primary goal is getting things done in the best and most efficient and elegant way. It’s not my intention to always be “the winner” of a discussion or to be self-opinionated, and I’m aware that my tone, behaviour and even physical appearance (1.98 m long) is considered as dominating by at least half of the population. For those who believe in astrology: my birth sign is leo, my ascendant scorpio.
Werner.
StanleyB
31-05-2012, 08:50
There seems to be a difference of opinion on a few things. So let's tackle them one by one, with me pointing out the area of interests that I need resolved.
OK, I'll start off with the power, on|off and power symbol, and let's add to that headphone, phone, the headphone symbol. Which one can we agree to as a majority? I suggest using power and headphone. It keeps in line with having only text, instead of mixing text with symbols. It also makes a far clearer statement of what it does or is for. I base my opinion on the years of answering email questions that many would find to be obvious from the beginning.
Next is the logo and the font for the model name. Can I assume that most of you agree that the logo and the model name should be the same? Keep in mind that the font used in the logo should have been the same as on the Caiman. I am not sure that the word Bushmaster would look nice in the logo font. I still prefer using the same font and style that I used in the word Caiman on the Caiman DAC.
Again on the name Bushmaster, and the underlying text: would it be better to just put Bushmaster DAC, and leave out any text underneath that?
I prefer to use optical and coax to indicate what exactly they are for. I have to deal with people who don't even speak English and often don't quite know what something means. And then you have the first time buyers who are taking their first venture into owning a DAC. They too can feel lost with abbreviations and symbols that they are not familiar with.
Then there is the question of the numbers that indicate which input is active. Leaving them out could cause confusion when trying to work out which input is actually connected up and in operation.
seoirse2002
31-05-2012, 10:03
Hi Werner,
Well said!!
My wife has the same problem(if it is a problem,but not to me) and has always got into trouble and not been liked for saying exactly what she thinks.I used to think it was because english was not her first language,so her english was very direct,but that is not the case...that is just the way she is.She admits herself that she has no "zip on her mouth" and although she is just 160cm,I have seen very tall people quivering when she says what she feels.. there is nothing wrong with being honest although it seems to be frowned on a lot here,(in this country)and upsets or insults people,or hurts their feelings.That is one of the reasons the country is in the state it is....although there are a lot of good honest genuine people in government,there are many lying,dishonest,greedy,crawthumping,selfserving,so called do-gooders also in government....worst of all,we voted them in!!!
Sorry to everyone for going a bit off topic,but myself,and Im sure, many AOSers here have had no part in contributing to the current economic crisis....but with all the cuts,price rises,pension and pay freezes and other money grabbing tactics going on, we are the ones paying for it...
Its a wonder anyone can operate a business sucessfully in this day and age.
Stans dac looks good and affordable for the price,and I will be watching the reviews with interest.
. . . I have to deal with people who don't even speak English and often don't quite know what something means. And then you have the first time buyers who are taking their first venture into owning a DAC. They too can feel lost with abbreviations and symbols that they are not familiar with.
. . .
None of us have your feel for what works in general with your customers, Stan, so we can only offer a very personal opinion.
I just looked at the Caiman panel, and it is cleaner
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/img/cms/BERESFORD.jpg
Numbers above and description below seems to work.
"Caiman" is better in that italic script.
Do we have any typographers on the forum? If I knew what the fonts used are called I know folk I could ask for sensible alternatives.
Are you wedded to the (Beresford) font?
Beresford Caiman might work well on the left, leaving the right clear, and then either DAC in the same bold italic or
Digital Analogue Converter in a smaller and less bold italic font.
StanleyB
31-05-2012, 10:47
Manufacturers keep their logo away from the model number or model name. So Beresford Bushmaster would be very odd.
Can I assume that most of you agree that the logo and the model name should be the same?
No, I don't agree. Using the same font as in the logo (which is often a customised design in the commercial world) violates the rule that the corporate logo is always sacrosanct. I had lots of marketing training when I was with both NEC and Xerox and both those companies came down on anyone misusing the logo in any manner like a ton of bricks. Horrible instances of the 'X' logo in Xerox being used as the first letter in the distributor's name, or the stylised font in 'NEC' being used for other words.
So I think that the 'Beresford' logo and 'Bushmaster DAC' text are correctly shown by Stan in different fonts.
Jamtoast
31-05-2012, 10:53
Looks fantastic Stan.
Showed the pics to a graphic designer friend of mine. His comments were:
the reason the silver looks better/is peoples preference is due to less contrast between the silver aluminium and black text. The black version would look better (more professional, cooler, stealthier...) if the text was an off white grey or grey-silver to make the contrast less stark.
the large 'Bushmaster' needs a strict straightedged font (not rounded - this steals from the 'gravitas' of the name ) - Helvectica or similar - and possibly all caps and a bit smaller?
the horizontal input labels also look much better and more 'pro'
If you doubt the power of font choice see http://www.comicsanscriminal.com/. ;)
All just ideas to play with. Overall I (and my friend) think it looks great. Can't wait to get my mitts on one.
Cheers
Graham
Werner Berghofer
31-05-2012, 10:58
Martin,
Using the same font as in the logo (which is often a customised design in the commercial world) violates the rule that the corporate logo is always sacrosanct.
I wholeheartedly agree. Never ever must the type or model description "Bushmaster" use the same font as the brand name "Beresford".
Werner.
None of us have your feel for what works in general with your customers, Stan, so we can only offer a very personal opinion.
I just looked at the Caiman panel, and it is cleaner
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/img/cms/BERESFORD.jpg
Numbers above and description below seems to work.
"Caiman" is better in that italic script.
Do we have any typographers on the forum? If I knew what the fonts used are called I know folk I could ask for sensible alternatives.
Are you wedded to the (Beresford) font?
Beresford Caiman might work well on the left, leaving the right clear, and then either DAC in the same bold italic or
Digital Analogue Converter in a smaller and less bold italic font.
Nice lettering and layout that :)
Nice lettering and layout that :)
Yes I agree - the guy who did that did a good job :lol: :lol:
Dave.
Werner Berghofer
31-05-2012, 11:35
Stan,
But "input" should be "select".
what about using source instead?
Werner.
StanleyB
31-05-2012, 11:47
Stan,
what about using source instead?
Sounds like a good idea to me. I shall put that on the list.
Seorirse and Werner,
Keeping this debate friendly and just exchanging opinions, can I state an opposing view on the subject of communications and bluntness. (Sorry to Stan and others for going off topic).
As I see it, communication is a two way process and involves one person imparting opinion, knowledge, facts or instructions to the other. It is not sufficient for the person doing the imparting to make his statement and then close down. The communication process is imperfect unless the receiving person fully understands what has been imparted to him. In other words the person doing the imparting is wasting his time and energies when the message is not fully understood by the receiver. All obvious stuff you might think.
But if the manner in which the information is imparted is perceived as being off-putting, domineering, sarcastic, talked-down to, it increases the chances of the receiver not 'getting' the full message - waste of time all round IMHO.
Courtesy costs nothing and, if it vastly increases your chances of communicating effectively, what's the objection?
In short, bluntness vastly reduces te effectiveness of your communication IMHO. If you're happy accepting that you're being ineffective to some degree in your communications that's fine by me but don't start bleating (not saying you do :) ) when it becomes apparent that people have not taken notice of what you said.
Rant over - back to Bushmaster design considerations :lol:
Dave.
Davek,
I'd like to suggest another tip to aid communication.
I find posts much easier to read if they have a blank line between each paragraph.
Like this.
Regards,
seoirse2002
31-05-2012, 12:22
Hi Davek,
One of the first rules of communiction is to get the name right.:cool:
bobbasrah
31-05-2012, 12:28
Hi Davek,
One of the first rules of communiction is to get the name right.:cool:
:ner: :cool:
PS - Bet you wished you had spelled commun commyni comm oh fffs.....
Stan,
You have "Headphone" on the Bushmaster and "Headphones" on the Caiman.
I would say "Headphones" was correct, but it can go either way.
Product consistency would seem to require "Headphones".
Jamtoast
31-05-2012, 12:46
My graphic designer friend Matt's ideas and half an hour in Photoshop that I should have been doing proper work :D resulted in this:
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmaster-classy.jpg
No label on the selector but not sure it needs it - function is implied by its position.
Graham
P.S Stan I admire you throwing your creation's appearance out for comment. Looks great the just the way it is and no doubt *sounds* incredible - which after all is the point. :doh:
My graphic designer friend Matt's ideas and half an hour in Photoshop that I should have been doing proper work :D resulted in this:
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmaster-classy.jpg
I'd give that top marks so far.
You can't beat a professional eye.
Precise font details?
Jamtoast
31-05-2012, 13:05
Precise font details?
ON/OFF and switch labels - Helvetica Neue Medium
24/192kHz etc. - Helvetica Neue Light Italic
Bushmaster - Helvetica Neue Ultra Light all caps
Beresford Audio - PMingLiU Regular
Gmanuk101
31-05-2012, 13:06
Helvetica is a classy font!
My graphic designer friend Matt's ideas and half an hour in Photoshop that I should have been doing proper work :D resulted in this:
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmaster-classy.jpg
No label on the selector but not sure it needs it - function is implied by its position.
Graham
P.S Stan I admire you throwing your creation's appearance out for comment. Looks great the just the way it is and no doubt *sounds* incredible - which after all is the point. :doh:
I like this one best too.
Cheers,
Jamtoast
31-05-2012, 13:16
Helvetica is a classy font!
Sure is! So classy someone made a whole film about it: http://www.helveticafilm.com/
My graphic designer friend Matt's ideas and half an hour in Photoshop that I should have been doing proper work :D resulted in this:
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmaster-classy.jpg
No label on the selector but not sure it needs it - function is implied by its position.
Graham
P.S Stan I admire you throwing your creation's appearance out for comment. Looks great the just the way it is and no doubt *sounds* incredible - which after all is the point. :doh:
These works well. :)
Few comments though? (all done in the best possible taste)
1)
The Gold button DOES imply function but maybe not enough to satisfy all users, which Stans email box seems to attest to!
Easy to incorporate "Source" text above the button in line with "Auto" to the right.
2)
Looks too busy under the power button.
Particularly noticable against the current changes which "declutters" the rest of the panel graphics?
I would have the recognised symbol for "Power" http://2.s3.envato.com/files/24620214/power%20button.jpg rather than On/OFF.
There is an "economy" of design at the headphone socket because of the use of symbol rather than text.
Having this at the Power button on the opposite of the Dac would bring this to the dac design overall.
3)
The italic Text below the power button be better placed under the "Beresford Audio" text at top left.
Perhaps with the power symbol rather than text this might be fine where it is though.
4)
Good font choice (and design) of the Beresford logo, it feels friendly, non sterile yet professional.
The BUSHMASTER font though....not so much.
Reminds me of Rotel kit from the 80's and is too clinical.
To me it feels dated and out of place compared to the other text.
I understand the need to differenciate the Product font from the Manufacturer/panel text...but not this.
Stan's original font worked quite well, I felt it was a bit too squeezed in with the smaller text below it.
With the smaller text moved the BUSHMASTER text it would stands alone and might now "works" better?
Will knock summit up in PS when I get home.
seoirse2002
31-05-2012, 13:24
:ner: :cool:
PS - Bet you wished you had spelled commun commyni comm oh fffs.....
I know....was trying to get the font right and couldent hear any difference:lol:
communicating
:cool:
Davek,
I'd like to suggest another tip to aid communication.
I find posts much easier to read if they have a blank line between each paragraph.
Like this.
Regards,
Hi Lee,
Point taken :lol: .
Sort of 'Hoist on my own petard' :doh:
In mitigation I can only say that I tend to write as I speak, so long sentences and no major breaks between paragraphs.
George/Seorise,
Seems we're all human and prone to make mistakes - I'll forgive yours if you'll forgive mine :ner: .
Cheers,
Dave.
BTW - the Bushmaster design keeps getting better and better dunnit - I really like the latest offering.
Werner Berghofer
31-05-2012, 13:32
Graham:
This is not the original Beresford logo. Think about the further consequences: Web site, business letters, business cards, other audio equipment from the same manufacturer …
Although – with the exception of “Beresford Audio” – only fonts from the Helvetica family are used, I think there are too many font variants.
The placement scheme used for the descriptive words and their corresponding elements is inconsistent. This creates a lot of unpleasant visual agitation and noise. “Auto” is placed above the red LED, “Optical” and “Coaxial” are placed below the LEDs, the headphone icon is located on the right side of the jack.
Almost the complete text is centered, but the description “24/192kHz Fully Passive DAC” is aligned flush left. Don’t want to sound picky, but there’s a blank missing between “24/192” and “kHz”. Also I think that this description is dispensable, but I feel under no circumstances should it be placed immediately below the “On/Off” button.
I still don’t like the use of an uppercase letter as first character in the descriptions. Is this the Holy Bible? Then I don’t understand why “ON/OFF” is set in uppercase letters only, but for the other words mixed case is used.
I don’t like the appearance of the model name BUSHMASTER. I think similar to the Caiman front plate a semibold italic Helvetica variant (or another semibold, non-serif, maybe slab-serif typeface) in mixed case letters would look better.
The circular pits around the LEDs, the “Select” button and the headphone jack are different in size and depth. I see the technical reasons for this, but I feel the front plate would look better without these pits.
I think instead of the black/gold colour scheme (gold on the headphone jack and the edge of the volume knob) a combination of black/metal or black/aluminium would work better. The four blue/green and the one red LED still make me unhappy.
Don’t like the inconsistent mixture of icons and descriptive text. Either use icons for all, or words for all. Guess an icon-only solution would work better. The “Beresford” logo and the model name would be the only words in this variant.
Better use a simple dot on the volume knob like on the the TC-7520 and the Caiman DAC.
No offense,
Werner.
Hi Lee,
Point taken :lol: .
Sort of 'Hoist on my own petard' :doh:
In mitigation I can only say that I tend to write as I speak, so long sentences and no major breaks between paragraphs.
George/Seorise,
Seems we're all human and prone to make mistakes - I'll forgive yours if you'll forgive mine :ner: .
Cheers,
Dave.
BTW - the Bushmaster design keeps getting better and better dunnit - I really like the latest offering.
...being a mardy Shandy drinking Southerner doesn't help either :)
...being a mardy Shandy drinking Southerner doesn't help either :)
That is very true but its not very nice to say things like that to Lee - he can't help living in Somerset :lol: :ner: .
Sorry Lee, I can only apologise for my rude ex-friend from the uncivilised north of our island ;) .
Dave.
Jamtoast
31-05-2012, 14:05
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmaster-classy.jpg
Thanks for the comments.
The Gold button DOES imply function but maybe not enough to satisfy all users, which Stans email box seems to attest to!
Easy to incorporate "Source" text above the button in line with "Auto" to the right.
It's the only button (other than Power)! What else is it going to do? :doh:
2)
Looks too busy under the power button...
I would have the recognised symbol for "Power" http://2.s3.envato.com/files/24620214/power%20button.jpg rather than On/OFF.
Ties in with Werner's comment that should be symbols or text - not both. I'll try it and maybe post.
The BUSHMASTER font though....not so much.
Reminds me of Rotel kit from the 80's and is too clinical.
To me it feels dated and out of place compared to the other text.
That's actually my favourite bit of the design! But now you mention it is very R O T E L. Hadn't picked that.
I don't mind that it's bit retro - I think the box by design is pretty retro so it fits for me.
Stan's original font worked quite well
Most of this is very much window dressing and personal opinion but this is the one point I feel quite strongly about. I think having a rounded font for Bushmaster really doesn't fit with the image that the name projects. Good that Beresford looks friendly but 'Bushmaster' should look like it sounds - something to be taken seriously or it will take your hand off.
This is not the original Beresford logo. Think about the further consequences: Web site, business letters, business cards, other audio equipment from the same manufacturer …
I think this is true if the Beresford logo as it exists has significant brand recognition - not the name mind you, but the logo itself (the italic Beresford in a rounded rectangle). If not then no harm in deviating. But totally take your point. Not suggesting for a moment that Stan change his whole branding on the basis of something some numpty from Australia knocked up in 5 minutes.
Take the rest of your points Werner and agree with most of them.
Has anyone actually bothered to ask Stan if he can (or even wants) to change the text at this late stage? If not then sorry Stan!
Jamtoasts changes with my revisions
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9647/58066510.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/58066510.jpg/)
How about dropping the 1 2 3 4 and placing Optical Coxaxial where the numbers were? Users can refer to Optical left or right / Coxaxial left or right. Further simplification.....
Jamtoast
31-05-2012, 14:28
Jamtoasts changes with my revisions
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9647/58066510.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/58066510.jpg/)
Like!
And here's my last crack at it:
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmaster2-minimalist.jpg
Now time for me to go to bed.:zzz:
Werner Berghofer
31-05-2012, 14:31
Clive,
How about dropping the 1 2 3 4 and placing Optical Coxaxial where the numbers were?
I suggested this a few pages earlier in this thread. Stan thinks the numbers are required.
Werner.
Canetoad
31-05-2012, 14:40
No, I don't agree. Using the same font as in the logo (which is often a customised design in the commercial world) violates the rule that the corporate logo is always sacrosanct. I had lots of marketing training when I was with both NEC and Xerox and both those companies came down on anyone misusing the logo in any manner like a ton of bricks. Horrible instances of the 'X' logo in Xerox being used as the first letter in the distributor's name, or the stylised font in 'NEC' being used for other words.
So I think that the 'Beresford' logo and 'Bushmaster DAC' text are correctly shown by Stan in different fonts.
I agree. Beresford is a trademark, so should always be treated as a graphic rather than text.
And in silver?
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8628/silveroldlogo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/205/silveroldlogo.jpg/)
and alternative text (better?)
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4232/silveroldlogotext.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/silveroldlogotext.jpg/)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1448/27860314n.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/27860314n.jpg/)
And in silver?
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8628/silveroldlogo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/205/silveroldlogo.jpg/)
Really like this, great design best one yet IMO, it's clear, neat and professional. Works really well in both black and silver....silver still gets my vote though, can't wait now whichever it ends up as. I think it's very special to be able to get this kind of preview and input/comment on a products design.
all good ideas Werner.
Graham:
This is not the original Beresford logo. Think about the further consequences: Web site, business letters, business cards, other audio equipment from the same manufacturer …
Although – with the exception of “Beresford Audio” – only fonts from the Helvetica family are used, I think there are too many font variants.
The placement scheme used for the descriptive words and their corresponding elements is inconsistent. This creates a lot of unpleasant visual agitation and noise. “Auto” is placed above the red LED, “Optical” and “Coaxial” are placed below the LEDs, the headphone icon is located on the right side of the jack.
Almost the complete text is centered, but the description “24/192kHz Fully Passive DAC” is aligned flush left. Don’t want to sound picky, but there’s a blank missing between “24/192” and “kHz”. Also I think that this description is dispensable, but I feel under no circumstances should it be placed immediately below the “On/Off” button.
I still don’t like the use of an uppercase letter as first character in the descriptions. Is this the Holy Bible? Then I don’t understand why “ON/OFF” is set in uppercase letters only, but for the other words mixed case is used.
I don’t like the appearance of the model name BUSHMASTER. I think similar to the Caiman front plate a semibold italic Helvetica variant (or another semibold, non-serif, maybe slab-serif typeface) in mixed case letters would look better.
The circular pits around the LEDs, the “Select” button and the headphone jack are different in size and depth. I see the technical reasons for this, but I feel the front plate would look better without these pits.
I think instead of the black/gold colour scheme (gold on the headphone jack and the edge of the volume knob) a combination of black/metal or black/aluminium would work better. The four blue/green and the one red LED still make me unhappy.
Don’t like the inconsistent mixture of icons and descriptive text. Either use icons for all, or words for all. Guess an icon-only solution would work better. The “Beresford” logo and the model name would be the only words in this variant.
Better use a simple dot on the volume knob like on the the TC-7520 and the Caiman DAC.
No offense,
Werner.
That is very true but its not very nice to say things like that to Lee - he can't help living in Somerset :lol: :ner: .
Sorry Lee, I can only apologise for my rude ex-friend from the uncivilised north of our island ;) .
Dave.
nice deflection there Dave, see how quick you'd daub someone else in it???? :)
Taking Jamtoast's horizontal line approach, change of position of the headphone graphic....
Think it works better in this position?
The power and source buttons are now "grouped" according to function and stand alone.
Headphone graphic now separate and lines up with source LEDs.
The socket now "framed" either side...adding to a strong horizontal which carries the eye across the front of the Dac from the gold Source button to the headphone socket.
Works better now imo.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5877/91849875.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/91849875.jpg/)
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3906/silver5b.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/silver5b.jpg/)
The silver looks so much more expensive.....if only the 1 2 3 4 could be dropped, they really are superfluous clutter.
That is very true but its not very nice to say things like that to Lee - he can't help living in Somerset :lol: :ner: .
Sorry Lee, I can only apologise for my rude ex-friend from the uncivilised north of our island ;) .
Dave.
Oi! I lives in 'ampshire I tell ya!
There seems to be a difference of opinion on a few things. So let's tackle them one by one, with me pointing out the area of interests that I need resolved.
OK, I'll start off with the power, on|off and power symbol, and let's add to that headphone, phone, the headphone symbol. Which one can we agree to as a majority? I suggest using power and headphone. It keeps in line with having only text, instead of mixing text with symbols. It also makes a far clearer statement of what it does or is for. I base my opinion on the years of answering email questions that many would find to be obvious from the beginning.
Next is the logo and the font for the model name. Can I assume that most of you agree that the logo and the model name should be the same? Keep in mind that the font used in the logo should have been the same as on the Caiman. I am not sure that the word Bushmaster would look nice in the logo font. I still prefer using the same font and style that I used in the word Caiman on the Caiman DAC.
Again on the name Bushmaster, and the underlying text: would it be better to just put Bushmaster DAC, and leave out any text underneath that?
I prefer to use optical and coax to indicate what exactly they are for. I have to deal with people who don't even speak English and often don't quite know what something means. And then you have the first time buyers who are taking their first venture into owning a DAC. They too can feel lost with abbreviations and symbols that they are not familiar with.
Then there is the question of the numbers that indicate which input is active. Leaving them out could cause confusion when trying to work out which input is actually connected up and in operation.
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7504/bushmaster2.jpg
In my mind Gaz's mockup looks just about right except the headphone icon would look better underneath the headphone socket IMO.
I also think the Bushmaster looks terrific in silver even though I will be ordering one in black as most of my equipment is black... :cool:
EDIT: This is just about perfick ;)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1448/27860314n.jpg
In my mind Gaz's mockup looks just about right except the headphone icon would look better underneath the headphone socket IMO.
I agree although I woudl prefer to see the headphones logo replaced by the text on the same line as the power/on/off/select buttons
'Power' and 'Phones' text would work just as well Ian although I don't see the need for 'On/Off' anywhere on the facia. If a punter can't get to grips with how a power switch operates they are going to struggle with the rest of it I reckon... :D
Oi! I lives in 'ampshire I tell ya!
Sorry Lee, I had you located in Weston Super Mare :doh: . Have you moved lately or am I just plain wrong?
Dave.
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1951/53667645.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/53667645.jpg/)
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4922/silver5c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/444/silver5c.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/cmeakins/silvercm.jpg
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1001/70969800.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/70969800.jpg/)http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3900/silver5e.jpg[/URL
That's the ticket Gaz, remembering that Bushmaster will be in the same italic font as Caiman ;)
So many Photoshoppers, so little time...
That's the ticket Gaz, remembering that Bushmaster will be in the same italic font as Caiman ;)
don't have that font on my system!
anyone any idea what it is?
Looks a bit like Agency FB Bold Italic.
Sorry Lee, I had you located in Weston Super Mare :doh: . Have you moved lately or am I just plain wrong?
Dave.
Always been in Southampton, as per my location up there _____________^
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2833/68533467.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/68533467.jpg/)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7784/silver5fo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/silver5fo.jpg/)
last one for the night :)
Looks a bit like Agency FB Bold Italic.
spot on martin, ta.
bobbasrah
31-05-2012, 17:37
spot on martin, ta.
Lose the colouring of the LEDs and it looks pretty good....
pumpkineater23
31-05-2012, 17:51
As a small fish in a big pond, it is extremely expensive to make two versions. But I am experimenting with a removable front fascia. I am not sure if anyone else has tried that option in manufacturing of this type of procedure in large sized audio equipment. But it has been a common process with mp3 players and the like for many years. I felt that there is no harm in giving it a go with the Bushmaster.
I am even thinking of making the control software opensource, or at least publish the function of the pins on the microcontroller. So those far smarter than me can come up with some alternative coding and added functionality.
Ah a removable front fascia! So you could have a camouflage option (very Bushmaster) or perhaps glossy piano black (for me).
'Power' and 'Phones' text would work just as well Ian although I don't see the need for 'On/Off' anywhere on the facia. If a punter can't get to grips with how a power switch operates they are going to struggle with the rest of it I reckon... :D
I wasn't at my usual desk so could only see I screen and some how had forgotten i could scroll down and see the thread - I couldn't remember what the power button was actually called - totally agree don't need both
It is probably too late for this to be implemented but the perceived problem with the naked LED's could be solved by recessing them behind a dark tinted bezel. This could work particularly well on the black Bushmaster and would have the added advantage of cutting down the glare from the blue LED's.
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2833/68533467.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/68533467.jpg/)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7784/silver5fo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/silver5fo.jpg/)
last one for the night :)
That last one is my favourite so far.
Poor ol' Stan,not even for sale yet and everybody has already redesigned it.
Good job he is thick skinned..:lol:
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2833/68533467.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/68533467.jpg/)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7784/silver5fo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/silver5fo.jpg/)
last one for the night :)
Personally I think this is almost there - I think the text 24/192hz etc looked better under the Bushmaster Name, not only does it link with the product there but it also keeps the Beresford Logo clean.
If input numbers are needed as Stan indicated these might need to go back on - actually I preferred them in place it seemed to balance the facia for me
Just need some spray on chrome paint for that black knob on the silver version ............
StanleyB
31-05-2012, 18:26
That last one is my favourite so far.
Poor ol' Stan,not even for sale yet and everybody has already redesigned it.
Good job he is thick skinned..:lol:
I suggest that you rad through the thread again ;). I asked for suggestions with regards to how to improve the front fascia appearance. Unlike those faceless big budget companies who think they know best and let the buyers "take it or leave it", I am more open to input from customers. It's so much fun to know that you had a hand in helping in some way with a product.
Gaz did some work on the text layout of my previous DACs by the way.
Reid Malenfant
31-05-2012, 18:31
I don't mean to upset the applecart, but the bit that says "Fully Passive DAC" is giving me the heeby jeebies, because only the output is passive. The DAC itself can't be, it needs power at the end of the day..
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2833/68533467.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/68533467.jpg/)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7784/silver5fo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/silver5fo.jpg/)
last one for the night :)
Just noticed that the numbers are missing above the LED's (1 - 2 1 - 2)
I am even thinking of making the control software opensource, or at least publish the function of the pins on the microcontroller. So those far smarter than me can come up with some alternative coding and added functionality.
Way beyond my technical skills but sounds ultra interesting, I am sure that some fantastic ideas could come from this
Assuming for a minute that they did and you wanted to incorporate them is there any way the control software could be updated by users in previously sold units - its there a computer access point on the rear or inside the unit or could there be ?
StanleyB
31-05-2012, 18:47
Assuming for a minute that they did and you wanted to incorporate them is there any way the control software could be updated by users in previously sold units - its there a computer access point on the rear or inside the unit or could there be ?
The control chip is in a socket. You'll need a PIC burner in order to do a "firmware" update. But maybe one day I'll find a better solution.
I don't mean to upset the applecart, but the bit that says "Fully Passive DAC" is giving me the heeby jeebies, because only the output is passive. The DAC itself can't be, it needs power at the end of the day..
That was just something I stuck in there myself...
Can be anything..or nothing!
This point though I guess its just getting the layout right, before fine tuning by Stan. :)
any vacuum metalizing specialists on here that could advise on turning the power button silver ?
Just noticed that the numbers are missing above the LED's (1 - 2 1 - 2)
Yeah, just showing my £0.02 worth of different options until Stan can make a final decision on various aspects of the design.
Yeah, just showing my £0.02 worth of different options until Stan can make a final decision on various aspects of the design.
Fair enough ;)
Excellent job Gaz, t'is almost the finished article. I like the change from 'Select' to 'Source' too, somehow it gives an increased sense of gravitas :cool:
EDIT: Perhaps replace the word 'Fully' with 'Semi' re: Mark Reids comments ;)
The final silver version looks great.....APART from that bloody black on/off knob, which stands out like a sore thumb! ;)
The silver version should have a chrome or brushed silver on/off knob, the same as the big (volume control?) on the right. THEN it will be perfecto!
Marco.
My couple words. In old days inputs was CD, Tape, Tuner, so we know what is where connected. Caiman has three types of inputs - usb, optical and coaxial. I usually look for a name of input when selecting, I have different equipment conected to different type of input. If we have only two types and they are two of each, name of input type does not help much. I will need a number or I just remember where what is. We can keep a name of input type for aesthetic reasons if we need, but it will not help to identify particular input.
StanleyB
31-05-2012, 22:13
You don't have to remember where what is. You can put the Bushmaster in the auto mode and it will look for an input that has a valid audio signal available.
barry-potter
01-06-2012, 08:10
i still think you should keep the led's the same colour.
do you need to have '24/192 khz fully passive dac' on it? too much script i'd say......
StanleyB
01-06-2012, 08:48
The LEDs can all be blue. No problem with that.
The extra text is an input from Gaz. Others have made various alternative suggestions, and so have you with yours ;).
1)
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1408/70661295.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/70661295.jpg/)
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6733/silver6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/silver6.jpg/)
Text moved to bottom left corner...
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/650/82789435.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/864/82789435.jpg/)
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2897/silver6a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/silver6a.jpg/)
Text top centre, silver button just for giggles
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/799/silver6c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/silver6c.jpg/)
icehockeyboy
01-06-2012, 09:30
I have to say the silver one looks far more expensive than the black!
As some others have said, what about silver lettering on the black one? I think it would enhance it's appearance.
I too believe that the design is now so much better.
I prefer the silver finish; agree that the Power button ought to be grey/silver too.
Why not : "24/192 Passive DAC" under the (too large?) volume knob?
A pedantic point but "Phones" is an abbreviation of 'Headphones', so should really be < 'phones >.
Looking forward to the reviews - and my own purchase.
BW
Richard
Phones is an abbreviation of Headphones but I've seen it used on masses of equipment without apostrophe's so to use one would verge on pedantism.
I also think it is very important to keep the 24bit/192khz on the fascia because to the best of my knowledge this is the first DAC that Stan has produced that is capable of this resolution.
Digital To Analogue Converter isn't really necessary either, it takes up too much fascia real estate and looks a bit messy. DAC is well understood these days ergo, 24bit/192khz Semi-Passive DAC gives the customer all the info that is necessary ;)
tfonseca
01-06-2012, 09:55
I prefer it on black, but with silver knobs. The gold is quite uglish.
StanleyB
01-06-2012, 10:00
I have to say the silver one looks far more expensive than the black!
It is more expensive to make as well.
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1993/19975671.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/19975671.jpg/)
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/799/silver6c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/silver6c.jpg/)
actually thinking on about it I think the term semi passive could infer to many thats its not as good as it could be ie fully passive would be technically better. How about removing the term semi/fully all together and just leave it as passive
this would have the added benefit of making the text length shorter and not extending outside the width of the main body of the Bushmaster text
Hi Tiago
Please would you go to the Welcome area and introduce yourself before posting any further? This was requested in your activation e-mail. Thank you.
I think it might be best to leave "passive" off the front panel where it might be mis-understood.
The term can be used in the advertising and the manual where it can be explained.
And the less words on the panel, the better.
StanleyB
01-06-2012, 11:31
As mentioned before on a couple of occasions the front fascia is capable of being swapped over. Since it will take some time to get any new text layout from design to production print I shall keep in mind that early buyers of the Bushmaster may wish to try upgrade their fascia with a new look one.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 11:37
Stanley,
please allow me to ask an important question: Is is possible to slightly change the vertical positions of the various elements on the front face, or are there any technical or production related issues which prevent doing this?
From a pure aesthetical point of view I highly would appreciate if these elements were aligned in a more pleasing way.
Kind regards,
Werner.
StanleyB
01-06-2012, 11:51
Stanley,
please allow me to ask an important question: Is is possible to slightly change the vertical positions of the various elements on the front face, or are there any technical or production related issues which prevent doing this?
From a pure aesthetical point of view I highly would appreciate if these elements were aligned in a more pleasing way.
.
The location and positioning of the different parts are dictated by the clearance and height of the mounting position on the PCB. So it is impossible to move the holes of the power switch, source select, headphone socket,and volume control and higher or lower.
It is possible to move the LEDs higher, but not lower.
Repositioning of the holes for the power, source, headphone, volume along the horizontal plane is possible, but one reason for their location is tied to safety, emission approval and noise rejection. So you can't have the headphone socket or volume control too close to the power switch. And you can't have the LEDs too close to the volume control for noise rejection reason.
Of course, any frontal layout change would dictate a complete new PCB layout and CE/EMC certification.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 12:02
Stan,
Of course, any frontal layout change would dictate a complete new PCB layout and CE/EMC certification.
I see, thanks a lot for your answer. Stay tuned for more within the next 24 hours.
Werner.
Hi Tiago
Please would you go to the Welcome area and introduce yourself before posting any further? This was requested in your activation e-mail. Thank you.
+1. No more posts elsewhere until you have done that, please!
The silver version undoubtedly looks classier:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/799/silver6c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/silver6c.jpg/)
...and even though the 'coloured-in' on/off knob looks shite, it still looks better than the black one, so just imagine what it'd look like if the job were done properly! ;)
Please do consider this, Stan, as visually, it makes a big difference. You want brushed silver/aluminium on both knobs. Either that, or black on both knobs. It's gotta be one or the other, dude...
Marco.
Agree the power button would look better in silver, and the idea of all blue LEDs really appeals too.
Jamtoast
01-06-2012, 14:40
I think the blocky 'Caiman' like font in the last few pics is a big improvement on the rounded sans serif in the original design, but still feel that it isn't quite right as it has a slightly comic-font feel. You can't go past a variation on a straight edged sans serif like Helvetica. Most (not all) logos you see are some variation on this - be it light, bold, italic, condensed - because it just looks serious and classy. 27 out of 34 below on a quick count.
http://www.cvilleav.com/siteimages/avadbrandlogos.jpg
I also think, with respect, that the Beresford logo would benefit from a refresh - even if you are wedded to the font choice Stan I think it will look better without the rounded rectangle - see below...
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmaster_no_semi.jpg
... though there are nicer similar looking fonts. ;)
Otherwise, of all the designs that have been posted, I like the 'less is more' ones best. It's looking a bit busy again I think.
Oh, and the power button would look better with a flat face rather than rounded!
Fascinating to part be of the discussion. Thanks Stan. :)
It probably doesn't need saying but I'll say it anyway :lol: : -
It is said that the camel resulted from a committee trying to design a horse. ;) .
Dave.
Ali Tait
01-06-2012, 15:42
The Elephant: a mouse built to government specifications.
I agree about the box round "Beresford", and about the unatractive font.
What similar fonts had you in mind, Jamtoast?
The name of the font and "Beresford" displayed it it would be great.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 19:31
Based on the true dimensions of the device. The elements on the front panel all remain on their original positions.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_text.gif
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_icons.gif
Excellent Werner.
My impression is that the font size is just that bit too large...
BW
Richard
Very nice, Werner, and now I find myself swinging towards the symbolic version.
Has anyone wondered at how all European cars use symbols virtually throughout the dashboard but American cars mostly use words?
Very nice Werner,
The first one is very clear. I like the layout and fonts a lot, and the way that "24bit/192 kHz DAC" looks like a superscript to "Bushmaster". That works really well.
I'm not sure that the second one with symbols works, but an interesting take on things none-the-less.
StanleyB
01-06-2012, 19:53
Both versions look quite pleasing.
But what about leaving out the 24/192 KHz DAC and put Bushmaster back above the volume control and in a slightly smaller font? I tried putting text above the headphone socket before but it never looked visually "touching" on items of a small width.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 19:54
Richard,
My impression is that the font size is just that bit too large
yes, that may be right. Now I changed it from 12 to 10 point.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_text_10pt.gif
Thanks a lot,
Werner.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 19:57
Stanley,
But what about leaving out the 24/192 KHz DAC and put Bushmaster back above the volume control and in a slightly smaller font?
I tried this already, but I didn’t like it. The word “Bushmaster” would be very close to the upper edge, in my opinion really too close. “White space” is an important part of type and graphic design.
The volume knob actually is quite big when compared to the overall height of the Bushmaster. 30 mm diameter seems to be pretty standard for volume knobs, but most gear I checked is certainly higher than 45 mm.
Kind regards,
Werner.
Reid Malenfant
01-06-2012, 19:59
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_text_10pt.gif
Werner.
Looks better with the smaller font Werner :)
The only thing bugging me now is that while the Beresford logo & Bushmaster are on the same level, the info about the DAC just doesn't look right being at a higher level.
Everything else is nice & even :D
Just look at the Shiit units and how elegant they look, to me at any rate. Keep it plain and simple with small fonts I reckon. "We" know what this unit is, and so shall the buyers I think.
Looks better with the smaller font Werner :)
The only thing bugging me now is that while the Beresford logo & Bushmaster are on the same level, the info about the DAC just doesn't look right being at a higher level.
Everything else is nice & even :D
mmm... I agree. I wonder if the DAC info would now look better under the volume knob (which to my mind still looks a little too large).
(Edit) The more I look at it the more I think that the 'Bushmaster' font is too large and 'thick' (if you know what I mean). "Less is More" etc
Again, thanks to all, especially Stan for allowing us all to comment on the design.
I think we're just about there...
BW
Richard
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 20:06
Mark,
The only thing bugging me now is that while the Beresford logo & Bushmaster are on the same level, the info about the DAC just doesn't look right being at a higher level.
the upper edge of these three elements is exactly at the same level, but I noticed this too. You see, the line “24 bit/192 kHz DAC” actually cannot be moved down. The only solution might be to use a smaller font size for this element and to balance the vertical position to be visually aligned with the upper edge of “Beresford” and “Bushmaster”.
My idea was to use “24 bit/192 kHz DAC” as some kind of superscript to “Bushmaster”.
Many thanks for your comment, highly appreciated.
Werner.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 20:07
David,
Just look at the Shiit units and how elegant they look
very, very true :-) That’s one of the reasons I like their gear.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/headfun.jpg
One big advantage is that Schiit places the power switches on the back of the cases. Stanley mentioned an EU recommendation that the power switch needs to be placed in an easily accessible position. I confess that the Schiit power switches are little bit more troublesome to operate.
The diameter of the Valhalla’s volume knob (an ALPS potentiometer) is exactly the same as the Bushmaster’s, but the Valhalla case is 10 mm higher.
Werner.
StanleyB
01-06-2012, 20:21
Keep in mind guys that the fascia is only about 45mm high, which is less than 2 inches. There is a limit to how small a font can be before it becomes next to impossible to print onto a brushed metal surface.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 20:29
Stanley,
There is a limit to how small a font can be before it becomes next to impossible to print onto a brushed metal surface.
that's true, and I always kept this in mind as I created these layout variants. Thank you for pointing this out.
Werner.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_text_10pt.gif
starting to like this version
Has anyone wondered at how all European cars use symbols virtually throughout the dashboard but American cars mostly use words?
Stan not sure about stock for two versions of panels, try to keep 50 different.
Great job Werner.
I suspect the mainly stumbling block (with respect to Stan as I understand his desire to retain it) is the Beresford logo within the round cornered rectangle.
I can totally see that Werner has lined up those three elements with top alignment but as the logo is within the aforementioned rectangle it just doesn't look aligned. So, yes it's a tricky decision. I'm sure Stan has got some great ideas from these mockups designs.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 22:04
Thank you for your feedback, guys. I considered some of the valued suggestions you made.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_text_black.gif
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_icons_black.gif
These of course are only iterations, since I didn’t try to emulate the brushed metal surface in the vector based software I used for creating these layouts.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_text_silver.gif
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_icons_silver.gif
Personally I think the “iconized” black version works best.
Werner.
Werner,
Great job! I think these are all very nice, although the coax and optical icons may be too obscure for some.
sq225917
01-06-2012, 23:10
How about
1 COAX 2 and 1 OPT 2
Instead of the above and below the line
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 23:13
Martin,
Has anyone wondered at how all European cars use symbols virtually throughout the dashboard but American cars mostly use words?
right, and I also noticed that many American street and traffic signs are much more "wordy" then what can be seen here in Europe. One of my all-time favourites is "Peds xing" for "pedestrians crossing".
Werner.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 23:15
1 COAX 2 and 1 OPT 2
I try to avoid abbrevations and acronyms whenever possible.
Werner.
Werner Berghofer
01-06-2012, 23:18
Alastair,
the coax and optical icons may be too obscure for some.
Schiit Audio uses them on their pretty well selling Bifrost DAC (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7).
Werner.
Jamtoast
02-06-2012, 00:36
Just look at the Shiit units and how elegant they look, to me at any rate.
Totally agree. Very simple and elegant, and what do you know - a very light square sans serif! I know I keep going on about Helvetica variants but it's no coincidence that you see them EVERYWHERE.
Jamtoast
02-06-2012, 01:00
Personally I think the “iconized” black version works best.
I really like the icons Werner - very clean and stylish. The functions on the device are so simple that even if the meanings aren't initially apparent to some I don't think it is a major issue.
Still not convinced on the fonts however!
Graham
I prefer the pre-Werner versions.
The triangle, however, to the right of the volume control solves a few layout problems, if there is room for it in real life.
The "Bushmaster" font is a disaster in any size. Slanted Courier is a throwback to the age of the dot matrix printer. It was far better in Helve.
The 24/192 should be under "Beresford" - and we don't need "bit" and "kHz".
The lines linking the source buttons to group them by type are unnecessary clutter.
The symbols I quite like, but does Stan think them explicit enough?
I would prefer to see the Beresford Logo lose its ring, and maybe soften its font.
Richard,
yes, that may be right. Now I changed it from 12 to 10 point.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_text_10pt.gif
Thanks a lot,
Werner.
I like this Werner with one caveat, I think the Bushmaster and 24bit/192khz grouping looks very awkward. The 24bit/192khz text can only work on the top edge of the fascia if it is under the Beresford logo with Bushmaster above the volume control or vice versa. One other possibility might be to place the 24bit/192khz under the volume control with Bushmaster above. With 24bit/192khz under the volume control it would sit well with the final few characters sat under the flat base of the volume wedge icon.
The Beresford logo should absolutely remain as it is.
Werner Berghofer
02-06-2012, 05:48
Brian,
Slanted Courier is a throwback to the age of the dot matrix printer.
The typeface I used for "Bushmaster" is called Rockwell, and the variant is not slanted, but italic. Rockwell is a classic, proportional slab-serif font, while Courier is monospaced, and slanted is not italic. You have an excellent eye for typography.
The 24/192 should be under "Beresford"
Like any logo also the “Beresford” logo needs space to breathe. This name placed in the rounded corner rectangle must not be located too close to any other typographic element. And the brand name “Beresford” has nothing to do with a certain sampling frequency or bit resolution, which would be implied if it was placed like this. “24 bit/192 kHz” is not an additional remark appended or close to the word “Beresford”, but an appendix or superscript to “Bushmaster”.
Actually I would prefer to own a 24 bit/192 kHz DAC instead of a 24/192, but to each his own. A few days ago on head-fi.org a new member asked what “16/44 audio” was. It's cool to be a knowing insider, but this does not work when omitting important parts of what this cool dude is talking about.
The lines linking the source buttons to group them by type are unnecessary clutter.
The lower edges of these lines introduce a very welcome horizontal axis to vertically align the word “auto” on. I also feel they pretty help to balance the unevenly placed “power” and “source” knobs on the left side and help to reduce the visual agitation. Besides this, I think they group the associated LEDs and the connection icons in a visual as well as conceptual way.
Werner.
Werner Berghofer
02-06-2012, 06:44
Dave,
Bushmaster above the volume control
there are only 7.5 millimeters available above and below the volume control. This in my opinion is not enough to place the model description “Bushmaster” in a pleasing and satisfying way.
With 24bit/192khz under the volume control it would sit well with the final few characters sat under the flat base of the volume wedge icon.
But this would introduce yet another horizontal axis, which would be vertically aligned to no other element. And it might suggest the idea that the volume control could be used to change the bit resolution or the sampling frequency. I would not place anything below the volume control except the volume icon, since the room there is very limited.
It might work if the part “24 bit/192 kHz DAC” was placed aligned left below the “Bushmaster” word. Personally I think this technical specification does not need to be present at all on the front plate, but this is something Stan has to decide.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_icons_black_1.gif
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_icons_black_2.gif
Werner.
Ok, I have been a busy bunny this morning. Here are my re-interpretations of Werner's designs. I felt there were some positional and font changes that needed to be applied.
As much as I tried to stay with the original font for 'Bushmaster' Stan it just didn't look right next to your logo, so I have chosen AR Essence (22pt) instead. I like the swoopiness of some of the characters in this font which hint at the flow of a snake as it moves across the ground. I did try applying this font in its italicised form but it was just too much sat next to the italicised text in your logo.
The font I used for the descriptor text is Copper Plate Light (8pt italic). Unfortunately I could not employ Lower Case due to the limitations of Windows Paint which is all I have available to me.
First off is a simple adaptation of Werners original design with the new Bushmaster font to the right of Stan's logo...
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/7530_text_10pt-1.jpg
Next up is my redesign including the Bushmaster logo from above and the full descriptor text including the English spelling of 'Analogue'...
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/7530_text_10ptmk2-2.jpg
Now we have the same as above but with the US spelling of 'Analog'. Here the descriptor text shares the font colour of Stan's logo...
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/BushmasterFullUS.jpg
And finally we have the same layout but with a shortened version of the descriptor text...
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/BushmasterShortDAC.jpg
The Beresford logo now lines up with the left edge of the power button keeping things neat. I have also stretched the descriptor text a touch in the final rendition to line up with the right hand edge of the 2nd COAX LED which neatens things still further. I feel the designs above demonstrate purpose and enhance Stan's aspirations for the product.
Werner Berghofer
02-06-2012, 07:39
Dave,
Ok, I have been a busy bunny this morning
That “Bushmaster” font is a risky choice, and placing it so near to the “Beresford” logo is not less risky.
Why white text? I used 40 percent black for my lettering and the icons.
The size of the “Copperplate” font is too small, the characters are too tightly spaced and barely readable. A font size of 8 point would be very difficult to print in silk screen on a brushed metal surface.
There has to be a certain space between “24” and “bit”, as well as between “192” and “kHz”. Omitting space here is a semantic and typographic error. Although nowadays this is seen very often, in professional typography there is no space before and after the slash “/”.
“Unfortunately I could not employ Lower Case due to the limitations of Windows Paint which is all I have available to me” — This is not a limitation of the software, but of the font. The “Copperplate” typeface is a small caps fonts by design.
Werner.
I for one much prefer Stan's original offering and really can't believe that this has run so far - Stan you appear to have the patience of a saint!
Sound quality for me every time.
The typeface I used for "Bushmaster" is called Rockwell, and the variant is not slanted, but italic. Rockwell is a classic, proportional slab-serif font, while Courier is monospaced, and slanted is not italic. You have an excellent eye for typography.
Thank you Werner. I was being ironical is some places and accurate in others; and I was firing from the hip as you do.
The font you use for "Bushmaster" is indeed slanted or oblique and not italic: the precise shape of the letter 'a' is the give-away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_type
:)
brian2957
02-06-2012, 07:45
Totally agree , looks fine in original format , sound quality first for me too.
Brian.
O, the chatter is good for business, but I am sure when it has run it's course Stan will make his own judgement.
The Vinyl Adventure
02-06-2012, 07:54
Ere ... One for the font geeks http://www.tothepoint.co.uk/more/fun/shoot_the_serif/
Dunno why you don't just use verdana ;) :D
Werner Berghofer
02-06-2012, 07:59
Brian,
The font you use for "Bushmaster" is indeed slanted or oblique and not italic
no, it’s a true italic font. See the font manufacturer’s website (http://www.linotype.com/1409/Rockwell-family.html) for more details. What did you say, how long have you been in the typesetting business?
“There is no sin except stupidity.” — Oscar Wilde
Werner.
I for one much prefer Stan's original offering and really can't believe that this has run so far - Stan you appear to have the patience of a saint!
Sound quality for me every time.
Chris, I have no particular preference here, I am already on record as saying Stan's original design is basically sound. The only aspect of it that I am a little uncomfortable with are the slanted idents for the LED's which I feel look a little cheap and cheerful. As Stan has reminded us on several occasions now, it is he who is looking for further input, I am only playing with Werners designs because he and I are having a friendly disagreement about placement and font issues. I don't suppose for a minute either of us are going to be upset if Stan passes over our efforts ;)
Great job Werner.
I suspect the mainly stumbling block (with respect to Stan as I understand his desire to retain it) is the Beresford logo within the round cornered rectangle.
I really like Beresford's logo. It brings a perception of old-fashioned quality, maybe drawing similarities with the likes of the old Leak logo.
I prefer using text annotations rather than symbols at the bottom of the face plate - they line up nicely rather than different shapes of different heights. Werner's Bushmaster font is great and I prefer it when positioned near to the volume control with the 24bit text line below the product name.
Andrew
jandl100
02-06-2012, 08:30
Maybe it's just me, but I much prefer the look of Gazjam's designs and ideas to Werner's. :scratch:
The Vinyl Adventure
02-06-2012, 08:41
Ere ... One for the font geeks http://www.tothepoint.co.uk/more/fun/shoot_the_serif/
Dunno why you don't just use verdana ;) :D
Just to clarify... I know Verdana is a screen font ... That's why I said it, I thought it was funny!
My 2p on the font issue is that I would use a very simple font and keep the text to a minimum
As Werner mentioned someway back lower case looks smart!
I have also counted as many as 4 different fonts/variants on some of these designs ... That's a no-no in my world. One for the logo then a single font for everything else would keep it smart I think
I only do web design so I just choose fonts based on what they look like on the screen or how cufon renders them ... I also don't have much background in design especially print... So I wouldn't want to make any recomendations on choice of font specifically... But as I say, some awareness of the KISS principle may well help ;)
The Vinyl Adventure
02-06-2012, 08:46
Maybe it's just me, but I much prefer the look of Gazjam's designs and ideas to Werner's. :scratch:
It's because they are nice and simple ...
Werner's designs (with respect) are IMO over egging the pudding a bit
Gaz's look like a Beresford too ... They fit the brand
Werner's are trying to fit something to a brand that isn't present in it ... And whilst not bad designs just don't fit with the logo or the "feel" I get from the brand
IMO to go with Werner's look an entire rebranding process inc logo would be required ...
Werner Berghofer
02-06-2012, 09:57
Hamish,
Werner's are trying to fit something to a brand that isn't present in it
very good point, excellent remark! Thanks a lot.
Now, if it were possible to make more changes to the hardware, I probably would suggest something like this:
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_future.jpg
Credit must be given to Yamaha. I like most of their vintage design very much.
Werner.
bobbasrah
02-06-2012, 10:17
It's because they are nice and simple ...
Werner's designs (with respect) are IMO over egging the pudding a bit
Gaz's look like a Beresford too ... They fit the brand
423 posts in 6 months on the sound of a future DAC:scratch:
286 posts in 6 days on what it should look like:eek:
The Black Adder
02-06-2012, 11:00
.
It's because they are nice and simple ...
Werner's designs (with respect) are IMO over egging the pudding a bit
Gaz's look like a Beresford too ... They fit the brand
Werner's are trying to fit something to a brand that isn't present in it ... And whilst not bad designs just don't fit with the logo or the "feel" I get from the brand
IMO to go with Werner's look an entire rebranding process inc logo would be required ...
Popped back in to catch up....busy busy!
With respect to Werner I have to agree with the above.
I think its important to keep the Beresford brand identity.
Stans oiginal design was fine imho, it just needed a few minor tweaks with the graphics.
Agree with Marco though, silver power button the silver case.
Over egging the pudding and making changes for changes sake I feel.
Its a small dac - imho its best to keep the design simple, clear and to the point.
AND....lets keep it Beresford!!
Good effort guys
Werner Berghofer
02-06-2012, 11:11
Gary,
I think its important to keep the Beresford brand identity
may I kindly ask you to describe that brand identity in a few, simple words? Who defined it originally? Stan?
Many thanks in advance,
Werner.
P.S.: Why does the link to your website not work?
The Vinyl Adventure
02-06-2012, 11:23
423 posts in 6 months on the sound of a future DAC:scratch:
286 posts in 6 days on what it should look like:eek:
No ones heard it yet ... They have seen it though ... And been asked about the design ... You wait til people get their paws on the thing!
I find it slightly strange that the Beresford logo is entirely absent from Stan's website(s).
Gary,
P.S.: Why does the link to your website not work?
I pointed that out the other day and received a reply:
"my website being rejigged at the moment'"
deleted by request
The Vinyl Adventure
02-06-2012, 11:59
Gary,
may I kindly ask you to describe that brand identity in a few, simple words? Who defined it originally? Stan?
Many thanks in advance,
Werner.
P.S.: Why does the link to your website not work?
I would though say that the logo on the dac is understated and simple ... The look of his previous products reflect thier cottage industry routes.
There is no pretence, it's just simple and to the point
Somthing that is equally reflected in the brand it's self as well as the products
Stan him self, the product, his ethos and brand all reflect (for me at least) somthing that is not trying to be somthing that it isn't ... Quality, but affordable quality!
If that makes sense?
I would doubt a brand has really been defined ... Stan? Do you have branding guidelines? It doesn't strike me that it is the sort of brand that they are required ... And would probably be an unnessasary expense for a company like stans.
In this instance the brand and brand "feel" has come from the product and product ethos
Gary,
may I kindly ask you to describe that brand identity in a few, simple words? Who defined it originally? Stan?
Many thanks in advance,
Werner.
P.S.: Why does the link to your website not work?
Hi Werner,
look at Stans previous Dac models....thats his brand identity.
As its Stans company its probably his.
Some useful reading?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand
My website is being reworked (by me) at the moment hence link not working.
If you want to know anything just ask :)
*Edited* (thanks jan)
Werner Berghofer
02-06-2012, 12:26
Hamish,
There is no pretence
where’s pretence in these front plate layouts?
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_icons_black_2.gif
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/7530_future.jpg
Puzzled,
Werner.
It has been decided that neither your panel designs nor my adaptations of the same are up to scratch Werner. Bow out gracefully my friend, I have... ;)
The Vinyl Adventure
02-06-2012, 12:40
I just don't think it suits the logo Werner ... It's not miles out it's just a little "hard" and larger brand for the feel I get from stans brand ...
Therefore the pretence for me is in the fact that it looks as though it's trying to be a bigger brand product ... Less cottage industry ...
Not that that would be a problem ... But IMO it would need a new logo for it to work ...
The Vinyl Adventure
02-06-2012, 12:47
Maybe a re-brand is what Stan needs ... The new product has the appearance of a higher end product than previous products ...
Another solution maybe to remove the logo from the front altogether ... Not a conventional solution but "bushmaster" is a strong enough product name to be used without the brand name to back it!
This wouldn't work if it was called somthing like an "m20" of course but IMO stans recent product name choices are solid enough to do such things ...
Beresford and the "24/192 passive blah blah blah" stuff could go on the back of the box ... Leaving the front panel to just have "Bushmaster" and the control symbols on the front.
That would make a strong statement ... But it might be more of a risky course of action in terms of brand recognition from outsiders ...
Of course stans product is never on shelves in shops ... So it might be doable ...
Cottage industry:
'An industry where the creation of products and services is home-based, rather than factory-based. While products and services created by cottage industry are often unique and distinctive given the fact that they are usually not mass-produced, producers in this sector often face numerous disadvantages when trying to compete with much larger factory-based companies.'
The Vinyl Adventure
02-06-2012, 12:50
Why not mock that up Werner?
Maybe use a more solid font for bushmaster ... Something more more solid lines to match the little icons you have used
The Vinyl Adventure
02-06-2012, 12:51
Cottage industry:
'An industry where the creation of products and services is home-based, rather than factory-based. While products and services created by cottage industry are often unique and distinctive given the fact that they are usually not mass-produced, producers in this sector often face numerous disadvantages when trying to compete with much larger factory-based companies.'
I don't think Stan is technically a cottage industry .. But there is certainly a feel of it ... You wouldn't get naim asking members of a forum to help design thier product front panel
Jamtoast
02-06-2012, 13:12
I for one much prefer Stan's original offering and really can't believe that this has run so far - Stan you appear to have the patience of a saint!
Sound quality for me every time.
+1
After all this Stan probably won't change a thing - but hey, we've all had fun playing designer either way.
That said this discussion has got me trawling through my font collection (1270 of them). Made it through about 600 before the word 'Bushmaster' started looking incredibly weird. Can continue if anyone is interested. Have been playing around with 'Beresford' as well but before I post those it would be good if Stan gave an indication of whether he would consider change to his logo - probably not I suspect which would be completely understandable.
Bear in mind these are out of context and some of the serif fonts probably wouldn't work with the existing Beresford font.
Below are the ones that jumped out at me as I skimmed through (although already don't like a few of them now I look back!). I threw in a few comic fonts for fun - ones that kind of said 'sharp toothed predator' to me.
Bear in mind the weight, tracking, kerning, size etc can all be infinitely adjusted - it's the feel of the font that I'm exploring. What does the font say about the device?
(The names of the fonts are in the filename).
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_DilleniaUPC.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_autograph_lanier.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_cc_running_with_scissors.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_chickenscratch_AOE.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_disgusting_behaviour.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_english_157_bt.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_europe_ext.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_europe_ext_mixed.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_helvetica_neue_ultralight.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_impact.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_impuls.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_incised901_bld_cond.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_ogill_sans_light.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_seven_monkey_fury.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_square_721_ext_lt.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_square_721_ext_lt.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_trebuchet_mixed.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_trebucht.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_universityromanbt.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_vdub.jpg
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_zurichcdlt.jpg
sq225917
02-06-2012, 13:16
One word, foreshortening.
I agree that the font/typeface for "Bushmaster" needs refining somewhat, as the current proposal is a little too 'matter-of-fact'. Of the selection above, I like this one:
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_chickenscratch_AOE.jpg
Marco.
Canetoad
02-06-2012, 13:43
+1 :)
The Black Adder
02-06-2012, 14:40
.
jandl100
02-06-2012, 14:49
http://jamtoast.net/bucket/bushmasteroptions/bushmaster_english_157_bt.jpg
Stick this one on the shelves of a mainland European High End Hifi Emporium, and folks will think it's a Burmester and you can add a couple of zeros on the price tag, Stan. :lol:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/burmesterlogo.jpg
The Grand Wazoo
02-06-2012, 15:07
That's exactly what crossed my mind when I saw that Jerry!
One word, foreshortening.
The Beresford Foreshortening sq? I dunno. I didnt much care for Bushmaster but Foreshortening seems even worse. Dont you have something to do with brand management? How did you get that job then?
barry-potter
02-06-2012, 15:57
well, for me, looks wise, i much prefer the werner efforts, i think they are more stylish, especially the use of the symbols.
how many people want an iphone because they think it looks good? well if you have a product that looks good and sounds good then you are onto a winner (hopefully). of course saying that i'd still buy the bushmaster if it sounded good but looked like a bucket of shite.
The Beresford Foreshortening sq? I dunno. I didnt much care for Bushmaster but Foreshortening seems even worse. Dont you have something to do with brand management? How did you get that job then?
Lol... Simon's being a bit too cryptic. I wish he would just spit it out and say what he means! ;)
Marco.
FWIW my 2 penn'orth,
One problem with retaining brand identity is that, if carried too far, it can 'date' the product. Keeping the Beresford logo in it's original (usual) form is a good thing in my view but retaining the general design features of the original DACs is perhaps not so good, tending to 'date' them in the past.
Taking cars as an example, most of them retain some long cherished link to the past, Ford's name scroll, Rolls' R-R, Mercedes 3 point star etc but larger features were dropped as the product evolved, e.g. Vauxhall's signature bonnet flutes.
If I were Stan I would go for Werner's design with symbols and colours rather than lettering, but retain the Beresford logo. Stan is not a one product operation and further products will evolve we all hope. Werner's basic design principle could be the start of the new design basics and product identity could be built up from this base. IMO it has the advantage of looking modern and will therefore stand the test of time for the foreseeable future (rather than looking increasingly dated), will be recognised universally for what the symbols mean (Stan exports all around the world, not just the areas speaking English or using our scripts) and has the advantage of being and looking as though it has been professionally designed by someone who knows what he's doing, which it has. Take advantage of the effort that has been put into it by the ad hoc committee lead by Werner - be silly not to IMHO :) .
Cheers,
Dave.
StanleyB
02-06-2012, 19:48
I am not stuck to the logo design, so any creative suggestions are most welcome.
just noticed that the Bushmaster is now showing on Stan's web site
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/products/TC-7530DC.html
Russell Turner
02-06-2012, 21:38
Aye just got an email from the man himself asking if I was still interested... Do bears do the proverbial in the woods?
Of course I am still interested Stan!
Russ
p.s. I like the aluminium symbol flavour of the DAC
The Black Adder
02-06-2012, 21:58
Can anyone actually hear me?
This thread could put a glass eye to sleep ;)
Werner Berghofer
03-06-2012, 05:54
Gary,
its best to keep the design simple, clear and to the point.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/bushmaster_silver.jpg
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/bifrost.jpg
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/lyr.jpg
Werner.
howlindawg
03-06-2012, 08:50
I've taken the liberty of combining two of Werners ideas to show my favorite so far.
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/3898/7530textblack2.jpg
I think the use of symbols looks neater but feel that they will be too obscure and non intuitive to many users.
Along similar lines I think that labeling the sources 1 2 3 4 will be more intuitive than 1 2 1 2.
I'm really liking the reduction of the colours on the front panels. It looks far more professional and stylish. Just Black and Grey with blue lights looks much classier than Black, White, Red, Blue, Gold of the original.
Gary,
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/bushmaster_silver.jpg
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/bifrost.jpg
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/lyr.jpg
Werner.
Sorry Werner, you've lost me.
The Shiit looks simple, CLEAN and totally uncluttered, with it's plain front and artfully folded casework. Perhaps Stan can't go quite that far, and probably doesn't want to, but how about reducing the size of the lettering on the front of the Bushmaster to something very discrete?
May well be that all this messing around with front panels will hold up production :) What do you want, your own take on the panel, or a working DAC as quick as possible? :lol:
jandl100
03-06-2012, 09:39
Gary - Werner just wants all kit to look like the Schiit stuff. He likes it, which he is entitled to, of course.
He's just comparing and contrasting the functional, rather old-fashioned Beresford look, with the Kool and trendy Schiit gear.
Obviously, any person with good taste, seeing the two designs juxtaposed, has to prefer the Schiit look. :rolleyes:
Yes, it's very trendy, very 'this year', and very :zzz: imho.
Russell Turner
03-06-2012, 09:42
To be honest it can be in a Tupperware box for me as long as it sounds good...
:-)
Jamtoast
03-06-2012, 09:45
My advice is to have something designed, something unique to trademark. ...your products deserve it.
+1
Ultimately, I do not care what my boxes look like as long as they work. Given the option though I prefer the industrial/laboratory equipment look. Like Nagra, or ARC.
Werner Berghofer
03-06-2012, 10:28
Gary,
Sorry Werner, you've lost me.
I don’t think so. Recently I asked you kindly to describe in a few words the “Beresford brand identity”. Instead of answering my request, you suggested to have a look at Stan’s gear and as an additional bonus you provided a link to Wikipedia — fortunately at least this link worked. So far the only person obviously found worth doing trying to describe his feelings and perception of Beresford products and their philosophy was Hamish.
Actually you seem to have no idea about this legendary “Beresford brand identity”, but one thing you know for sure: It has to be kept intact and alive, and my design proposals just violate it.
You stated “its best to keep the design simple, clear and to the point”, and I felt free to match what you call “simple, clear and to the point” with photos from products which actually are designed this way. The prices for these products still are very reasonable and fair, but it’s obvious that their visual appearance is in a complete different, much higher league. By looking at gear designed like this, one expects that it also must be sounding excellent. In contrast, when looking at a big part of British HiFi gear, one wouldn’t expect more than just the power indicator light starting to glow the moment the unit is being powered on — assuming of course a brick-sized, high-performance external PSU is used.
To exaggerate this a little bit: certain British audio gear may sound very good, but it looks and feels as if it had been designed and assembled by amateur electronics handymen working from the garden shed. Their gear’s possible superior inner life and craftsmanship just is not recognizable from the outside, and more sensitive people might not feel invited to give gear looking that nasty even a try.
Nowadays even a small fish in a big pond needs professionally designed cases, web sites and printing matter to reflect the outstanding quality of his products in a credible, convincing way. It’s the Internet age, my dear; the days of the tinker’s weekly buddy meeting at the local pub are over. Schiit started as a company run by only two persons, but had a highly professional web site from day one plus a very clever marketing concept. It also helped a lot that both founders are well-known and respected names in the audio business.
To Jerry aka “Jandl100”: As an experienced Webzine Reviewer you certainly know that the company name is Schiit. So what’s the deal with misspelling it constantly? I’m convinced that even in a few years in the future Schiit’s current case designs still shall be recognized as outstanding, excellent and reduced to the maximum. Simple, clear and to the point, as Gary aka “Gazjam” prefers it, but unfortunately failed to demonstrate in a convincing way with his own proposals.
All just in my humble opinion, of course.
Werner.
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