View Full Version : If the labour party have all the answers today then ...
Neil McCauley
27-09-2011, 18:44
then why didn't smart-arse Miliband suggest them during the Labour Government years?
And why should any of us believe anything he says today about the Labour Party's alleged credentials to run the Country properly economically next time?
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Warning to all posters: please do not start a political slagging match here.
Stratmangler
27-09-2011, 18:54
then why didn't smart-arse Miliband suggest them during the Labour Government years?
And why should any of us believe anything he says today about the Labour Party's alleged credentials to run the Country properly economically next time?
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Exactly :)
Neil McCauley
27-09-2011, 18:55
Warning to all posters: please do not start a political slagging match here.
Okay. fair enough. I'll need to confound my ignorance about what precisely constitutes a 'slagging match' though on this site.
For example, if an actual fact which is both verifiable yet unpalatable to any party is posted here, does that constitute 'slagging'?
Please enlighten me. Thank you. Sincerely, Howard.
smart-arse Miliband
...for instance.
Don't get me wrong, I may well agree with you, but this is probably not the place.
Reid Malenfant
27-09-2011, 19:00
None of them are to be trusted is all i'll say :eyebrows:
Anyone who desires to be a politician should automatically be excluded from the job. What's needed is something like jury service where people are called up & have advisors helping them out...
Imo of course ;)
Back to the music :eyebrows:
You know, it was said long before the last election that it really wouldn't matter who got in, because the situation we're now in would have been much the same - probably.... I suspect "our" situation is world wide.
All the money we haven't got these days. where's it all gone??????????? :rolleyes:
Neil McCauley
27-09-2011, 19:04
...for instance.
Don't get me wrong, I may well agree with you, but this is probably not the place.
Okay. You may have point. It was a bit adolescent on my part. But let's probe just that bit further shall we? Just to test the AoS boundaries. How about this?
http://ind.pn/pHD5rV
None of them are to be trusted is all i'll say :eyebrows:
Anyone who desires to be a politician should automatically be excluded from the job. What's needed is something like jury service where people are called up & have advisors helping them out...
Imo of course ;)
Back to the music :eyebrows:
What he said.
Anyone who believes anything any politician says about anything, ever, is a bit simple, IMO.
Maybe he did suggest his ideas but wasn't listened to.
I think the tories are making a total mess at the moment with no growth no money no ideas.
Not sure how they are going to make it better with there cutbacks.
Neil McCauley
27-09-2011, 19:06
I suspect "our" situation is world wide.
Not in, er ...
New Zealand
Austria
Switzerland
Canada
Brazil
Australia
Sweden
Shall I go on?
Neil McCauley
27-09-2011, 19:10
Not sure how they are going to make it better with there cutbacks.
Possibly they have in mind a bit of fear motivation? If so then gotta be better than what even the Labour Party have today described as a scrounger's charter under their stewardship of UK Plc
Possibly they have in mind a bit of fear motivation? If so then gotta be better than what even the Labour Party have today described as a scrounger's charter under their stewardship of UK Plc
Sorry but what is that and how does it work?
Neil McCauley
27-09-2011, 19:53
Sorry but what is that and how does it work?
Well there are many ways. For example -
Pointing out to public workers that they deserve no more (nor indeed any less) protection from redundancy that workers in the private sector. Maybe those Union leaders planning a Winter of Discontent for 2011/2012 might want to ponder this. But they probably won’t.
BAE skilled workers today thrown on the scrap heap while in my Borough it appears that ‘Refuse Operatives’ have jobs for life. Where’s the sense in that – let alone the fairness?
And that’s just the start.
Thank god for the Chavs eh. At least they did something and woke us all up for a few days. If we do get any major political changes it wont be because of reasoned debate, that i can promise you.
Funny to think this underclass some here spend so much time and effort in deriding and gobbing at are the very people who in the event of war us old and comfortable lot will happily send off to be slaughtered.
Oh I’m sorry, is this fact embarrassingly inconvenient?
I'd quite like the fear stuffed up the bankers and the wealthy tax dodgers first,rather than some sort of black mail to the average worker.
Neil McCauley
27-09-2011, 20:29
Funny to think this underclass some here spend so much time and effort in deriding and gobbing at are the very people who in the event of war us old and comfortable lot will happily send off to be slaughtered.
Oh I’m sorry, is this fact embarrassingly inconvenient?
You're assuming of course that they'll be able to understand orders let alone obey them! And even then if only on a nicked smartphone.
Frankly, if what you say is correct then I'd rather take poison.
Incidentally, the presumption that being underclass gives these people the unqualified right to thieve when I and others like me don't seems, well, just a tad liberal. Hmm? Is there some objective rather than sentimental rationale behind your view?
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I totally detest the class systems I travelled around the world and when you speak to people from other countries they find this a odd concept
It so easy to make generalisations but in my opion serves little real purpose. Most of us are struggling doing the best we can, they will always be people who abuse the system rich and poor, there are lots of ways to screw the system.
Personsonally I think we pretty F----- for the next 5 years and i think it will get worse.
I seen drastic cut backs in social services I actually think its putting lives at risks I see hard honest people doing their best I know one mother who has a daughter that has quite servere health condictions (the daughter is slowing dying) and learning difficulties she only gets a few hours sleep a day due to the constant care she has to give her daughter and is close to breaking point (their is another side to these cut backs that effect lives and put people at risk)
While I have sympathy for personal stories I do look with amazement at the Greeks who go on marches to protest their austerity measures. What's the matter with them? Don't they know they're BANKRUPT? The least they could do is bow their heads in shame and get on with working hard and cutting costs to try to rescue the state that their government and they themselves put their country in.
I see the same attitudes here. Immediate condemning of the current government for daring to try to cut our immense spending and the horrible state that we find ourselves in. If we're not careful, we will be bankrupt too. It's time to stop f*cking moaning and get on with working hard and bringing our costs under control.
That's my last word on the subject :steam:
Canetoad
28-09-2011, 07:36
Thank god for the Chavs eh. At least they did something and woke us all up for a few days. If we do get any major political changes it wont be because of reasoned debate, that i can promise you.
Funny to think this underclass some here spend so much time and effort in deriding and gobbing at are the very people who in the event of war us old and comfortable lot will happily send off to be slaughtered.
Oh I’m sorry, is this fact embarrassingly inconvenient?
I don't find it embarrassing or inconvenient! :ner: :lol:
I apologise for my rant in post #19, I wasn't targetting anyone and am as frustrated as the next person when it comes to the state of our economy. I don't believe there are any easy solutions and we're certainly in for a rough ride. I do recognise that many people work hard and are doing all they can already.
I should have heeded my own warning about forums and politics. Right, I'm outta here :)
While I have sympathy for personal stories I do look with amazement at the Greeks who go on marches to protest their austerity measures. What's the matter with them? Don't they know they're BANKRUPT? The least they could do is bow their heads in shame and get on with working hard and cutting costs to try to rescue the state that their government and they themselves put their country in.
That's my last word on the subject :steam:
The problem IMHO is that the work ethic is not so strong the further south you go in Europe. I understand that, in general, tax avoidance/evasion is looked on in both Italy and Greece as what all people do as a matter of course - only fools pay their full dues and demands. And then, manna from heaven, they were allowed to join the EU where unlimited funding was available from all those rich northern countries to bring their poorer countries up to the same standard of living - yippee!! Much of it seems to have disappeared into private pockets rather than the intended purpose.
The less wealthy in those countries and others, saw their political and business leaders enriching themselves at the expense of the general population and asked themselves why they themselves should behave any differently. When the inevitable happened and the day of reckoning approached they made their displeasure obvious - does anyone see any parallels with the situation in the UK? - just askin :) .
Dave.
Thank god for the Chavs eh. At least they did something and woke us all up for a few days. If we do get any major political changes it wont be because of reasoned debate, that i can promise you.
Funny to think this underclass some here spend so much time and effort in deriding and gobbing at are the very people who in the event of war us old and comfortable lot will happily send off to be slaughtered.
Oh I’m sorry, is this fact embarrassingly inconvenient?
It's neither embarassing or inconvenient; it's not even a fact!
All the money we haven't got these days. where's it all gone??????????? :rolleyes:
dave, as you know running the country is not alot different to running your life, spending money you haven't got runs up debts, and debit has been the norm for lots of people since the early 70's when debt became easy to get,
i know people with £20k on visa cards, and say they are skint..
the goverment is the same position...
I suppose the debit is just the bank crash?.. nothing to do with the likes of 'building schools for the future' programe, the new scottish parlament building, . to name but a few .. all really good things.. but look at what the costs are.
i live near Hull, the council took advantage of the schools for the future, I believe to the tune of £450m, replacing every secondry school, most where only 15-40 years old, with the idea to help raise the standards,
a climbing wall has now been axed to save money on the latest school being rebuilt.
The Beverley area that surrounds, still has schools built before the 60's, and has spent next to nothing, yet still performs better.
i'm not worried who's in power.. we would still be in the same pickle, some one has to repay the debt and it will come from our salarys one way or another...
Reid Malenfant
28-09-2011, 16:43
i live near Hull, the council took advantage of the schools for the future, I believe to the tune of £450m, replacing every secondry school, most where only 15-40 years old, with the idea to help raise the standards,
a climbing wall has now been axed to save money on the latest school being rebuilt.
The Beverley area that surrounds, still has schools built before the 60's, and has spent next to nothing, yet still performs better.
i'm not worried who's in power.. we would still be in the same pickle, some one has to repay the debt and it will come from our salarys one way or another...
Sounds similar to what happened or should i say is happening with my local hospital :rolleyes: Two hospitals were consolidated into one new one at a cost of £289 million (http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/health/health-news/final_cost_of_peterborough_city_hospital_could_be_ close_to_2bn_1_3097802). But & it's a huge but, the payments due to PFI will amount to nearly £2 billion over the next 32 years :eek: :mental:
Whoever signed the contracts needs dragging over an assault course by a rope round their b*lls :exactly:
ursus262
29-09-2011, 17:14
I used to care about the state of this country, but I don't anymore. For a couple of generations we, collectively, have voted out governments that increase taxes to invest in the future. We have voted out of self-interest. We have all had our noses in the trough but find it convenient to blame everyone else.
And the bankers? Well, we, collectively, voted for a government who encouraged them with their debt instruments, while we took the cheap loans and the zero percent finance on tacky furniture from Land of Leather. We look with contempt at the Eastern Europeans who pick fruit and veg for the minimum wage, while we buy the BOGOF strawberries in Tesco's, not realising we're too bloody lazy to get on our hands and knees to do it ourselves.
And the British: lazy, arrogant, rude, selfish, rough, snobbish, fat, uncultured, unprincipled and generally wilfully ignorant. I've seen grown men having a punch-up over one remaining consumer item in Homebase. I've seen people wander across the street, oblivious to the disruption they cause the traffic, and I've seen lower-middle class uber-chavs with their noses in the Daily Mail on the train, peering over at everyone else, judging them, deciding on who to treat like dirt because they are more attractive/well-dressed/intelligent than them.
If we are in a mess, it is because we have brought it upon ourselves. Politicians should be held to account, but they aren't because we, as a nation, are too ignorant to do that.
As for me, I'll eventually bugger off to France and leave you all to it.
:cool:
Gosh Ursus, don't over generalise about the rest of us will you?
With an attitude like that we just can't wait for you to do one. I'm sure the French will cherish you.
:lolsign:
Excellent, Dave! I'm similarly disinterested, but for different reasons, one of which is I DETEST politics with a passion (bores me rigid, and it's full of self-serving assholes) and so rarely bother to vote.
Also, with my personal situation, being relatively self-sufficient in most areas of life (semi-retired, at 46, no mortgage or debts, no kids, financially secure), not much the government does affects me in a major way, so I carry on regardless living rather nicely with my wife (and cats) in our own little 'island', which incidentally, we had to work VERY hard to build....!! ;)
See you in France sometime! :cool:
Marco.
ursus262
29-09-2011, 17:35
Gosh Ursus, don't over generalise about the rest of us will you?
With an attitude like that we just can't wait for you to do one. I'm sure the French will cherish you.
They do, Darren, oh, they do! :lol:
Is that something you can discuss before the watershed? :eyebrows:
Marco.
ursus262
29-09-2011, 17:45
Well, let's put it this way: if I said we couldn't, then that would be wishful thinking on my part :lol:
Seriously, I used to live in Belgium in a little village between Brussels and Antwerp, and often used to travel by train into Brussels for the nightlife (believe it or not, they do actually have that). Not once did I ever encounter rudeness, hostility or the kind of anti-social attitudes I experience here on a daily basis. Quality of life was superior, mostly because the courtesy of others just lubricated the daily grind that is life - and it does make a huge difference!
I'd go back there tomorrow, unfortunately my partner doesn't speak Flemish (I do, fluently), so we've got to learn French and we plan to live in Normandy, which we both love
Its going to be comparatively agricultural family life in Southern Italy or Catalonia for me; most probably Catalonia.
The plan was to last out here in England until my 60th when some legal matters get settled.
I just can’t see myself lasting that long tbh.
+1 for everything Dave wrote about the English and some.
I'd go back there tomorrow, unfortunately my partner doesn't speak Flemish (I do, fluently), so we've got to learn French and we plan to live in Normandy, which we both love
Bloody hell, Dave, we're going to Normandy on holiday in October! :eek:
We're getting away from it all in a little French auberge, somewhat in the middle of nowhere, in the quaint little town of La Ferté-Macé, in the arrondissement of Alençon... :)
Some pics of the auberge where we will be staying:
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9850/photo20logis201.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/photo20logis201.jpg/)
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/459/exterieur1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/exterieur1.jpg/)
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2945/lafertemaceaubergeandai.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/lafertemaceaubergeandai.jpg/)
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6697/image1muz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/image1muz.jpg/)
Can't wait to go! :cool:
Marco.
I used to care about the state of this country, but I don't anymore. For a couple of generations we, collectively, have voted out governments that increase taxes to invest in the future. We have voted out of self-interest. We have all had our noses in the trough but find it convenient to blame everyone else.
And the bankers? Well, we, collectively, voted for a government who encouraged them with their debt instruments, while we took the cheap loans and the zero percent finance on tacky furniture from Land of Leather. We look with contempt at the Eastern Europeans who pick fruit and veg for the minimum wage, while we buy the BOGOF strawberries in Tesco's, not realising we're too bloody lazy to get on our hands and knees to do it ourselves.
And the British: lazy, arrogant, rude, selfish, rough, snobbish, fat, uncultured, unprincipled and generally wilfully ignorant. I've seen grown men having a punch-up over one remaining consumer item in Homebase. I've seen people wander across the street, oblivious to the disruption they cause the traffic, and I've seen lower-middle class uber-chavs with their noses in the Daily Mail on the train, peering over at everyone else, judging them, deciding on who to treat like dirt because they are more attractive/well-dressed/intelligent than them.
If we are in a mess, it is because we have brought it upon ourselves. Politicians should be held to account, but they aren't because we, as a nation, are too ignorant to do that.
As for me, I'll eventually bugger off to France and leave you all to it.
.
:cool:
To be honest if i lived in luton i'd be pissed off with the uk.
Luckily not everywhere in the uk is the same.
It should be twinned towned with slough.
Reid Malenfant
29-09-2011, 20:00
We all learn our behaviour from those above us :rolleyes:
Frankly i think i am finally seeing almost exactly what is going on... The previous party in power who actually were not socialists at all decided to let in any Tom, Dick & Harry from foreign countries into the UK thinking it'd be a good idea as they'd vote for them. All the time they were lining their own pockets, i suggest you look at a certain T Bliar who has earned a reputed £20,000,000 since leaving office.
Imo these people don't give a monkeys about this country, they just care about themselves & lining their own pockets...
Anyway, to the present government :eyebrows: They are loving all the immigrants to, simply because wages have been driven down to the lowest common denominator & now ask yourself something - who owns the businesses & industry, yep - the people of the same type to vote for those in power..
It's a win, win situation for anyone in politics in this country as they'll make a mint. They'll spout all the cobblers they want to get you to vote for them & then backtrack on everything as soon as they get in power :rolleyes:
What needs to happen is the present political system needs to be scrapped so we actually get some people in charge who will do this country good & the majority of people in it, not themselves imo
Semi rant over :eyebrows:
To be honest if i lived in luton i'd be pissed off with the uk.
Luckily not everywhere in the uk is the same.
It should be twinned towned with slough.
Agreed, Luton is a hell-hole... I once attended a business conference there and had a look around locally - depressingly 'grey', filthy, and totally non-descript... :spew: And it was full of some right mutants! I've never been to Slough, but even the name somehow puts me off.
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
29-09-2011, 20:26
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy - UK officially bottom of the pile (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/uk-officially-bottom-of-pile) :rolleyes:
At least the rants are not on here :eyebrows:
Lol... There's a lot of truth in some of those stats. However, like Stu says, it largely depends where in the UK you live and how happy you are with your 'lot' in life.
I'm sure it's lovely down in sunny Devon, and that Stu has a good life there, much as we have here in beautiful rural North Wales, MILES away from the rat race described in the article you linked to.
It's the work/life balance thing we've got so badly wrong here. People work far too long hours in the UK, and so consequently have little time to enjoy themselves and spend time with their loved ones.
However, there's much to be said for life in the UK, if you've got your 'shit' properly sorted - we're in no hurry to move yet... :)
Marco.
ursus262
29-09-2011, 20:35
@ Marco: we love Basse-Normandy and we eventually hope to settle near Ducey, which is very rural and peaceful. Oh, and there's a nice Carrefour supermarket up the road :)
We've never been to Basse-Nomandie before, so we're looking forward to it. The area does look lovely. On the way down from Calais, we're stopping here for some lunch, en-route to Normandy:
http://www.aubergedewismes.fr/index.htm
I've already phoned up and booked (I got it on a recommendation - the food is said to be outstanding)! :cool:
So is Ducey near where I'm going? Lol@ Carrefour... We love stocking up with nice goodies to take back home, and normally head for the nearest E. Le Clerc, where we find there's usually a good selection of stuff, and a decent wine department. Rather handily, there's one in La Ferté-Macé!
Nearby Bagnoles-de-l'Orne also looks rather nice:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6779/img1wcz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/38/img1wcz.jpg/)
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9610/13bagnoles2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/13bagnoles2.jpg/)
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6597/img2pe.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/img2pe.jpg/)
Part of La Ferté-Macé town:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5369/2935221lafertemacelafer.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/2935221lafertemacelafer.jpg/)
We're also planning to tour around quite a bit, since we'll have the car with us, so we fancy having a look around the coast up towards Cherbourg and further out west towards Brest and Quimper, although we'll steer clear of those big cities and stick to the smaller towns and villages nearby.
Have you ever been out that way before? :)
Marco.
WOW!!! The class system is alive an well and residing on this forum :eyebrows:
The problem with generalizations is that they are general in nature. What is English these days anyway? Taken a walk out in your local town centre recently? You won't find much English being spoken I'd wager. Polish, Romanian, Portuguese even, but little English. So, what's the easiest way to hit back? Yeah, that's right, call your fellow countrymen 'Scum'. You disgust me!!! :steam:!!!
I must've missed it, Dave - who use the word "scum"? :scratch:
Marco.
The word in itself wasn't used Marco, but the inference was there. I'm sorry, been a bad day and the heat hasn't helped. I'm just sick of people running this country down when in actual fact we should ALL be working together to put it right. That can only be done however if there are still people who care living here. If we are incapable of doing that, then Vivre La Revolucion is all I can say. Maybe a bloody good kick up the arse is what this country needs, eh? :eyebrows:
"I must not respond".
"I must not respond".
Oh, ok then. Among some of my more mundane roles at work is to take a photo of every new member of staff and put it on the database and create an ID badge. The most recent three have been cleaners: an Armenian, a Ukrainian and a Pole. They're all thoroughly pleasant people and they all work hard (coming in at 6am every morning, I see how hard they're working). Among the entire cleaning workforce, I think there is one Brit.
Form your own conclusions.
Just to respond further, I love this country and it pains me to see it in its current state. We used to be world leaders of industry. The people of the world looked to us for expertise and advice. Take a look at us now, no home-grown heavy industry, the majority of British workers, many with skills in heavy industry, now working in the Service Sector. It hurts me to see us in such a mess. And don't get me started on the banking sector. What's more, due to these proposed cutbacks, people are going to be put at risk, maybe even die, in Great Britain ffs... :doh:
They don't have 10% of our culture, our heritage, the arts, music, history or indeed the sheer beauty of the countryside (and I include Scotland in this)
And so you bloody well should, too! ;)
There are few places in the world as beautiful as the north of Scotland, and on the islands in particular, in places such as Skye and Orkney - truly stunning and breathtaking scenery....
And what about Wales? :)
I know what you mean about Spain (there are certain places great for a hoilday but you wouldn't want to live there), but their work/life balance (and climate) is far better than here in the UK, which in my book, means a LOT.
If faced with choosing between being time rich and money poor (as long as one had the basics) or money rich and time poor, I know which one I'd choose in shot!! What good is there in raking it in, if you're too knackered to enjoy it and/or likely to drop dead with stress.....?
At the end of the day, I don't give a shit about money or possessions. They're nice to have, but ultimately it's only 'stuff'. It's spending time with your (irreplaceable) loved ones that matters most - and every day missed doing that could perhaps be regretted later.
Marco.
There are few places in the world as beautiful as the north of Scotland, and on the islands in particular, in places such as Skye and Orkney - truly stunning and breathtaking scenery....
Exactly why I included it. I've frequently said that Scotland is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Oh, and among the islands Mull is stunning too.
but their work/life balance (and climate) is far better than here in the UK, which in my book, means a LOT.
Not climate. No way do I want to be cooked every day of my life, hiding from the sun in airconned environments. I'm quite happy with British weather thank you and never complain about it.
spending time with your loved ones that matters most - and every day missed doing that could perhaps be regretted later.
It's ultimately the only important thing in life.
It seems there are still people who seem to believe that work ethic is something noble rather than a bit of social indoctrination to keep the factory fodder turning up in the morning.
Then you’ve got the others who want us to all pull together and be jolly decent chaps and help out when the fact is the very people responsible the crap we are in aren’t feeling any of the financial problems those of us who have actually done some work in our lives are trying to cope with.
The English; they’ve always been a bunch of forelock tugging twats and as long as you can point the middle classes at an underclass to look down on and an over class to look up to I can’t see much changing.
It seems there are still people who seem to believe that work ethic is something noble
It is.
The alternative is around us for all to see: work-shy wasters who live off the taxes and NI that I and many like me have earned and then paid every working day of our lives. Oh, and if I pull one sickie in a year it's been a bad one. The Armenians and Ukrainians and Poles that I quoted earlier have got it right and can hold their heads up high.
Agree on all your points, dude, except:
Not climate. No way do I want to be cooked every day of my life, hiding from the sun in airconned environments. I'm quite happy with British weather thank you and never complain about it.
It depends where in Spain you go. I hate crowded beaches (full of the 'egg & chip brigade' British tourists) or large humid and sweaty busy cities, with a passion, so if I lived in Spain it'd be somewhere remote up in the mountains in the fresh air, away from every f*cker, where it is much cooler, rather like it is in Tuscany, where we have our family home, in a little hilltop village in the countryside (called Barga). Some images:
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4083/hilltownbarga.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/hilltownbarga.jpg/) http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2364/viewfrombargachurch.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/viewfrombargachurch.jpg/)
And the house we would live in would be built for a warm climate, so there would be marble/stone floors and rugs throughout, no carpets, and heavy wooden shutters on all the windows to keep the sun out and keep the place cool - all of which is the norm in warm countries abroad.
I can assure you, Martin, there's nothing nicer than eating all your meals outside at most times of the year, in the cool under the pergola, with the vegetables you eat from your own garden produce, and drinking wine made from grapes from your own little vineyard, or waking up in the morning, and from your bedroom, reaching out and grabbing the most beautful fresh peach or pear, or cherries, from the surrounding trees - all of which I have done in Italy, and could also do in the right part of Spain ;)
There would be no "hiding from the sun in airconned environments" (which I agree sounds like hell), I can assure you! :)
Marco.
Martin me old son, the people living off your earnings and work ethic aren’t the dole scroungers it’s the financiers and the corporate business owners and the elitists professions.
You've been duped mate, honestly. ;)
I'm going to butt out of this thread now before I say something I might regret. I'll go rejoin the Prols... :ner:
Get it off of yer chest, dude... We're all big boys here and can take it! :cool:
Marco.
Martin me old son, the people living off your earnings and work ethic aren’t the dole scroungers it’s the financiers and the corporate business owners and the elitists professions.
;)
Actually its both. But I hate this 'workers of the world unite' bollocks. You got the world you were born into, make the best of it. Look out for yourself, your friends and your family.
You got the world you were born into, make the best of it. Look out for yourself, your friends and your family.
+1. I'll go with that :)
Marco.
I have been to Spain enough times to know that it's pleasant enough for a holiday but NO WAY would I want to live there. They don't have 10% of our culture, our heritage, the arts, music, history or indeed the sheer beauty of the countryside (and I include Scotland in this). If I lived there I would wither and die.
Not sure where in Spain you've been to 'enough times', but it sounds to me like it was Benidorm...;)
Madrid, Barcelona, & Granada...lacking in culture and heritage???!!! :scratch:
And now for some nasty Spanish countryside, the last shot is of 'where we cling to the 'air-con'' :lolsign:
Hehehe.... It can also get like that in the hills in Tuscany, especially in the winter (although that's where the log fire would come in ;)) but when it's warm, it's bloody warm!! But there's always a nice cool breeze, and very little humidity...... :)
Marco.
Hehehe.... It can also get like that in the hills in Tuscany, especially in the winter (although that's where the log fire would come in ;)) but when it's warm, it's bloody warm!! But there's always a nice cool breeze, and very little humidity...... :)
Marco.
Probably quite similar climates Marco, this is up in the North West of Spain, 60k west of Zamora up by the Portuguese border...outdoor swimming pool in summer, log fire in winter, and one of the few wild packs of wolves in Europe. :)
You got the world you were born into, make the best of it. Look out for yourself, your friends and your family.
Sounds to me very like Maggie Thatcher's guiding doctrine, the bit in bold, and we all know where that got us, don't we? (but some might be a bit reluctant to admit it ;) )
Just MHO.
Dave.
Actually its both. But I hate this 'workers of the world unite' bollocks. You got the world you were born into, make the best of it. Look out for yourself, your friends and your family.
Problem is that if its a case of you and your family against a large multi-national corporation, you will loose every time. Individual workers are by definition replacable, so the only way they will have any equality when it comes to profit redistribution is if they join forces and present a unified front. Then its possible they can have enough power to not be replaced at the employers whim.
Probably quite similar climates Marco, this is up in the North West of Spain, 60k west of Zamora up by the Portuguese border...outdoor swimming pool in summer, log fire in winter, and one of the few wild packs of wolves in Europe. :)
The NW then is where I'd live (as it would suit my needs), although not that I'm ever likely to live in Spain...
I know what Martin's getting at though with the British climate. I love the weather I experience to be very clearly defined by the seasons of the year, so I have no problem with rain, snow or ice, cold winds, or the dark nights coming in, as it is all part of nature.
I would absolutely HATE living somewhere where it was sunny and dry all the time, as it would seem like a very 'false' (and likely boring) existence, which is why I wouldn't thank you for spending Christmas day on a bloody beach, as some folk like to do (good luck to them), because apart from the fact I hate crowded beaches and tourist resorts, somehow it would just seem 'wrong'.
No, in the winter time, I'd want to live in a country where it was cold and snowed, so I could snuggle up to a nice roaring log fire and be all cosy and warm, as I watch the snowflakes falling down outside and look at the surrounding snow-capped hills and trees... I love the comforting feeling you get when doing that.
I'd enjoy that experience every bit as much as I would sitting outside under the shade, on a warm summers day, munching some home-made Tortelli al Ragu and sipping a glass or three of Chianti, which is why one day in the not too distant future, we will retire in Tuscany! :cheers:
Marco.
I would absolutely HATE living somewhere where it was sunny and dry all the time, as it would seem like a very 'false' (and likely boring) existence, which is why I wouldn't thank you for spending Christmas day on a bloody beach, as some folk like to do, because apart from the fact I hate crowded beaches and tourist resorts, somehow it would just seem 'wrong'.
I spent 18 months working in Santa Clara California back in the 90's, 21 to 28 every day, clear blue skies, and in the whole time it rained once, eventually it became as tedious and artificial as the inhabitants...;)
Well this is where I’m likely to end up if I end up in Spain (Catalonia)
(complete lack of air conditioning units ;) )
The only disadvantage is it is quite some distance from the nearest town. When the winter floods make the road difficult the two pet donkeys will do the trip and carry the shopping :lol:
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ef32af07e3206ad8f9854ed84efcf502695470baa2fbb3267f aad2fafcbf55132g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=1ndw1jvd9gjq5rn&thumb=5)
As for a lack of culture; far from it around this area. Lots of local village style events going on that real people participate in, not some wanky celebrity flown in from the city.
Granted it doesn’t snow in this region it does get cold enough to warrant log burning stoves. Oh arr, you have to collect the logs.
Southern Italy is a bit different; over all a lot warmer but no air conditioning there either.
Looks great, John, and exactly my kind of place... :respect:
It's also very like how a lot of farmhouses are in Tuscany... No problem being shaded from the sun there! What's 'air-con', eh? Lol ;)
All that's missing is a big table outside, where all the family would gather and eat together, spending hours there, with (home-produced) wine flowing in abundance, and fantastic food, and sharing plenty of laughs!
I also love the local village festivals you're alluding to, where civilised people socialise together, and there's not one sight of drunks being sick in the street and causing trouble - everyone eats, drinks, and is merry, and the vibe is *just* fantastic :cool:
Right, it's lunchtime, and as it's a beautiful day here, it's time to retire outside and devour the veal escalopes in lemon sauce, Del's left prepared for me, along with a nice chilled glass or two of Pinot Grigio!
Laters,
Marco.
P.S Martin's gone very quiet.......
Well this is where I’m likely to end up if I end up in Spain (Catalonia)
(complete lack of air conditioning units ;) )
The only disadvantage is it is quite some distance from the nearest town. When the winter floods make the road difficult the two pet donkeys will do the trip and carry the shopping :lol:
...just keep the larder well stocked and the donkeys well fed John, looks very nice indeed :)
Donkey is fine mate, but there are two of them now :lol:
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e8daf0ece96d6a4820d2ca817c234d1bc648fd3c05dcfba7d2 7513879856af192g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=5mm2t7w25hwdgq5&thumb=5)
Nice one. I think you'll agree though that "cooked every day of my life, hiding from the sun in airconned environments" is not particularly representative of how life would be in the northern parts of rural Spain Will showed examples of, and which is very similar to the area and climate I'm used to enjoying in Tuscany :)
Marco.
......... along with a nice chilled glass or two of Pinot Grigio!
Do tell Marco, do tell...! :)
Cheers
That's exactly it, Marco. Our weather is so temperate but the seasons are so well defined. I would detest living in a climate of total heat and nor would I like the east coast of the USA as their hot and cold extremes are far more severe than ours.
Regarding Spain, I can only relate what I experienced and it's always been hot there, even in the northern Basque region. In fact, the only time I've been cool was skiing in the Pyrenees.
I have to agree with you there Martin, I lived in New York for 3 years, and it is a shocking climate, -25 through to 40 and humid, spring and autumn last a day each ;)
Indeed a lot of the countryside of southern Spain is rather inhospitable, and probably technically a desert. But it's a vast country, and the climate/vegetation of the north west Atlantic coastal area is much more temperate and scenic...well when Exxon don't cover it in oil that is :doh:
The Basque region only extends to Bilbao, there're quite a few Km's between there and Vigo for example, anyway give it a try you might like it, it's cheaper than the south, and there are no brits for miles... ;)
Will do, Will, especially as it's driveable.
Do tell Marco, do tell...! :)
Cheers
Hi Barry,
It was a 2009 Masi 'Masianco' Pinot Grigio e Verduzzo delle Venezie:
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1912/masimasiancopinotgrigio.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/masimasiancopinotgrigio.jpg/)
And absolutely delicious it was, too! Masi are one of the top producers of Pinot Grigio, so if you really want to sample the true elegance and finesse of this particular grape variety and raise the bar a little over the supermarket offerings, that's the one to go for. The Verduzzo grapes add a little more body and complexity to the finish over a standard PG :)
It's around a tenner a bottle, so a quality slurper with supper, but not too 'serious'. I got this one a while ago from Oddbins, but not sure who'll stock it now. Best to Google for it - enjoy! :cheers:
Marco.
I would detest living in a climate of total heat and nor would I like the east coast of the USA as their hot and cold extremes are far more severe than ours.
Ditto!
Regarding Spain, I can only relate what I experienced and it's always been hot there, even in the northern Basque region.
Yup, but let's not forget that we're talking about living in Spain, not merely holidaying there.
The times you'll have been was in the summertime, as a tourist, which is a whole different ball game from actually living there in the winter months as a citizen, especially in the NW parts Will showed pictures of...
The snow there, dude, proves it! ;)
Marco.
Neil McCauley
30-09-2011, 15:58
Meanwhile Harriet Harperson made the final speech at The Labour Party Conference with the view that the previous government’s people who are still in the opposition and by implication the rank and file party faithful have pretty much done with apologising and now it is time to forget the past and look forward.
This is all very well but this misguided and possibly willfully ignorant relic of a bygone era appears to either have no sense of irony or has that sense very much under control.
The point being that that proportion of the hapless 10’s of 1000’s who’ve lost their jobs, plus no doubt an equal or greater number living in continual fear of job insecurity were the gullible who swallowed Blair’s nonsense in the first place.
As an aside, is it just conceivably possibly that Ms. H is in fact not quite the intellectually past-the-sell-by-date comic that’s her image and is in fact a Conservative ‘sleeper’ who has lain dormant for years and now is being reactivated to wreck any chance of Labour returning in a generation by being the female perpetuator of political buffoonery? Just a thought!
**********************************************
Neil McCauley
30-09-2011, 16:02
<Yawn> ;)
Marco.
On balance, you're probably correct. Indeed, why give a stuff?
Indeed, mate... The sun's out and it's a lovely evening, so let's enjoy ourselves, throw back a few cold ones, and worry not about what some overpaid dweebs in suits (or skirts) get up to in Westminster! :cool:
Marco.
Vinyleyes
30-09-2011, 17:21
I continue to be amazed that our population at large still appear to think that a particular prime minister or party leader can change anything on a level that will genuinely improve our lot. Our politicians are ran by the global corporations, oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, arms companies and banking families that are not there for our benefit.
Between them they are systematically raping and plundering the human and mineral assets of this planet ... material gain, power and control is their only agenda. There is a long long history of people disappearing that have attempted to disrupt their agendas.
Do your own research ... it is all out there on the web .. Don't expect the media to report it because the media is controlled by the very corporations that seek to keep our noses to the grindstone every day for ever decreasing reward. More for less is the motto these days .. and that applies to our work duties and our pay packets .. I know my salary has certainly not kept pace with inflation over the last 20 years.
The reason that they have opened the floodgates to east european labour is because these people have just in the last decade or two found any kind of freedom .. of course they will work hard to chase the material dream .. and for lower wages .. We have been on that cycle since the industrial revolution. Eastern Europe has had 70 years of total repression.
Basically our governments have sold us out ... but one has to remember that it is happening in all developed countries .. and it is the corporations that take their factories overseas where cheaper labour makes for bigger profits. All this will grind to a halt at some point .. The Indians and the Chinese are becoming ever more affluent and even labour costs there will inevitably rise.
It makes me laugh when people go on about Greece being bankrupt .. America has been bankrupt for decades .. and they simply print more money with nothing to back it up .. and we are not far behind. Stock market crashes are manipulated .. and who gets richer ..?? All the multinationals who pull out in time and buy back in when everyone else has gone bust.
How on earth have all these banks survived ... they were given trillions of dollars ... all non exisitent money .. but the taxpayers have to actually turn the debt into real money in the interest repayments. It is quite simply and plainly a huge and criminal con job ... a complete whitewash .. and still the public at large buy it and get caught up in arguing about whether the left or the right has the best policies to get us out of trouble.
In actual fact the politicians have no power at all and are simply serving as a smokescreen for the crimes of the Global corporations behind them.
Check out this website of links to actual accredited media stories .. then take it from there if you want to be brave, get rid of your conceptions and comfortable belief systems and actually explore what the hell is really going on here on our beautiful and wonderful planet which is being poisoned and suffocated every day by these "people."
http://www.wanttoknow.info/
:cool:
Reid Malenfant
30-09-2011, 18:07
Yep, all smoke & mirrors :rolleyes:
Martin’s assessment of Spanish culture, apart from being complete nonsense, reminded me off a couple of British tourists my then partner and I met in Girona.
We met them at one of the many open bars in the main city area where we got talking about where we had been. The couple soon got around to showing us the photographs they had taken of various places they had visited. When I asked what they thought about the old Jewish quarter in Girona they said they hadn’t been there. Well that’s got to be THE tourist attraction of Girona and when I asked why they had missed it out I got told that they didn’t bother because they couldn’t drive through it :eek::doh:
Apparently that’s what they did on holiday; drove around a place taking pictures.
http://www.barcelona.com/barcelona_directory/catalonia/sightseeing/the_jewish_quarter
As an aside, is it just conceivably possibly that Ms. H is in fact not quite the intellectually past-the-sell-by-date comic that’s her image and is in fact a Conservative ‘sleeper’ who has lain dormant for years and now is being reactivated to wreck any chance of Labour returning in a generation by being the female perpetuator of political buffoonery? Just a thought.
There are conspiracy theories and then there are conspiracy theories ......
Does anyone give this one any credence?
Dave.
Martin’s assessment of Spanish culture, apart from being complete nonsense, reminded me off a couple of British tourists my then partner and I met in Girona.
We met them at one of the many open bars in the main city area where we got talking about where we had been. The couple soon got around to showing us the photographs they had taken of various places they had visited. When I asked what they thought about the old Jewish quarter in Girona they said they hadn’t been there. Well that’s got to be THE tourist attraction of Girona and when I asked why they had missed it out I got told that they didn’t bother because they couldn’t drive through it :eek::doh:
Apparently that’s what they did on holiday; drove around a place taking pictures.
http://www.barcelona.com/barcelona_directory/catalonia/sightseeing/the_jewish_quarter
Point taken, John, but I think you'll find that Martin is a little bit more cultured than that ;)
Oh, and the Jewish quarter of Girona looks amazing! :eek:
Marco.
ursus262
30-09-2011, 21:05
Oh, classical Spain is simply stunning. Last year we took the ferry from Portsmouth to Santander and drove down to Pamplona. I remember we found this little vegetarian restaurant (my partner does not eat meat) and we had this wonderful meal, with a bottle of organic red, for about EUR12.00 a head for a three course lunch.
We drove up through the Pyrenees into France and we eventually ended up on the Normandy coast. But Spain is simply beautiful and I want to discover more in the coming years.
Granada is one of the finest cities I've ever visited. I think my views on Spain have been unfortunately distorted. It's just that the sheer availability of culture everywhere in the UK (the arts, plays, shows, concerts & musical performances, museums) beats practically everywhere I've ever been. We get used to it, but I would not be without it.
Vinyleyes
01-10-2011, 01:00
Here is an interesting article in the Guardian .... showing how much the banking sector contribute to the Tory party ... I don't suppose we will see much banking reform from that directions then .........
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/sep/30/tory-donations-where-money-comes-from
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/sep/30/city-conservatives-donations?intcmp=239
A small quote to give you an idea ...
"The influence of the City over the Conservatives has been laid bare by new research showing that more than half of the Tory party's donations since the general election have come from individuals and businesses working in finance.
Hedge funds, financiers and private equity firms contributed more than a quarter of all the Tories' private donations – which this year poured in at a rate equal to £1m a month – the study by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism (http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/)has found.
The figures show an increase in the proportion of party funds coming from the financial sector, raising fears that the City's financial influence over the Tories is on the rise as key pieces of legislation are discussed by the coalition government.
They come amid growing concerns that some parts of the financial sector, described by Labour leader Ed Miliband this week as "asset strippers" or "predator financiers", are profiting from financial instability."
...and the Labour party are in the pocket of the unions.
I'm just not quite sure who controls the Liberal Democrats? :eyebrows:
...and the Labour party are in the pocket of the unions.
I'm just not quite sure who controls the Liberal Democrats? :eyebrows:
David Cameron?
Vinyleyes
01-10-2011, 10:38
...and the Labour party are in the pocket of the unions.
And in return the Labour party look after the Union officials .....
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6833107.ece
Francis Maude, the Shadow Cabinet Office Minister, said: “On top of office costs, it is now clear that the Government is bankrolling a cadre of full-time union officials across Government, costing millions of pounds a year. There needs to be full openness and transparency on these costs so taxpayers can know whether this is appropriate public expenditure and represents value for money.”
Hahaa .... you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours ........
If you think about this sensibly .. How can a party funded by the unions money, which comes from the taxpayer directly, be impartial in deciding best course of action .. And ... How can a party funded directly by big business and banking be similaly impartial.
Then when you consider that big business needs the wheels of Britain's and the world's manufacturing base to keep rolling so that people can keep buying the very things that are being prodoced by the multinational corporations .. then it is possible to imagine how there is not very much difference at all between the true purpose of each party ... which is to keep the majority with enough to get by with ... but not enough to get ahead of the game and thus drop out .. like some folks here have done.
And if they manage somehow to just keep everyone in a semi anxious and slightly fearful state about their futures ,, then folks will hang in there and keep their nose to their chosen grindstones .. :mental:
Just consider how many of the western worlds political leaders go on to make fortunes in the private sector after finishing their terms of office !!
Just maintain the high ground and look on them with the contempt they deserve.
Point taken, John, but I think you'll find that Martin is a little bit more cultured than that ;)
Oh, and the Jewish quarter of Girona looks amazing! :eek:
Marco.
Oh, I don’t think he is Marco, at least that’s not the impression I get from his posts on this forum.
How anyone can say Spain has 10% of the culture of the UK is beyond me. That’s a bit like going to Rome and saying one couldn’t find any interesting architecture to look at :lol:
Yep.Girona is a very interesting city. You need a couple of days just to visit the most interesting parts of the river and the Jewish quarter.
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