View Full Version : Prattlin' Dave's HiFi Rambles...
brian2957
26-02-2013, 21:53
That's goin too far mate :lol:
Grandad by Clive Dunn? :lol::lol::lol:
brian2957
26-02-2013, 21:56
Jeez ! Put Rolf back on :doh:
DAAAAVE!!! No Dave, it's Rolf's turn... Oh for crying out loud.... "Ha ha ha, he he he, I'm a laughing Gnome and you can't catch me...."
Sheesh... :doh: ;)
Dingdong
26-02-2013, 23:28
Not tonight Martin, it's been a rollercoaster of a day which appears to be ending on a high, just about to secure a Rega DAC :D
I'll try to identify it for you tomorrow as the performance of this stuff is out of this world ;)
Rega? Really? Really?
I'd try and have a listen first. Not at all to my taste.
S'alright Mark, I didn't buy it for you, I bought it for me strange as that may seem... :ner: ;)
Should be here when you're over sorting the amp so you will get a chance to listen to it for yourself. I'm sure if it doesn't suit the system Brian will have no problem accepting it back... :cool:
Dingdong
27-02-2013, 06:41
Why did you go and buy that?
Heard one at a bakeoff last year compared with some other dacs. It was a very poor also ran in he opinion of everybody there.
Put a pillow over your speakers and you will get the same effect.
Before you ditch the Bushmaster, Dave, has Stan been given a proper chance to fix and/or replace it? I ask because Stan is usually very responsive to any problems found and I've heard nothing that can hold a candle to the Bushmaster at its price point.
The situation is somewhat awkward Martin and I have been asked not to say too much on the forum, probably best that you talk to Marco about it. As far as the BM is concerned, I can't live with its unreliability. I am having to reset the damn thing every time I change source or even software player. It's a shame because when it deigns to work it sounds fabulous :eyebrows:
Ok Dave, thanks for the explanation.
The situation is somewhat awkward Martin and I have been asked not to say too much on the forum, probably best that you talk to Marco about it. As far as the BM is concerned, I can't live with its unreliability. I am having to reset the damn thing every time I change source or even software player. It's a shame because when it deigns to work it sounds fabulous :eyebrows:
PM sent Dave.
PM answered Martin ;)
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about the Rega DAC Martin as Brian's is winging its way to me. How does it compare to the BM?
brian2957
27-02-2013, 11:03
Rega DAC posted this morning Dave . Should be with you before 1PM tomorrow. You have PM regarding tracking number.
Cheers Brian, PM answered ;)
PM answered Martin ;)
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about the Rega DAC Martin as Brian's is winging its way to me. How does it compare to the BM?
The Scottish branch of AOS had a wee bake off with different Dacs...might be of interest?
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=338303&postcount=505
Why did you go and buy that?
Heard one at a bakeoff last year compared with some other dacs. It was a very poor also ran in he opinion of everybody there.
Put a pillow over your speakers and you will get the same effect.
Maybe the "some other DACs" were over-egging the treble a tad? Just a thought..
May not be everyone's cuppa, but I have to defend it for the "pillow over the speaker" remark - sorry - Remember the firm that makes it and where their main enthusiasm lies.....
As you were chaps....
Hi Dave,
The BM is very good IMHO, as is the Rega Dac.
First off the build quality is in a different league - the BM is a great DAC in a basic case IMHO. The Rega is much more luxurious and that automatically makes it more expensive.
Sound wise, i'd say that if you want a clean, dynamic sound, with very good bass and aren't bothered about the way it looks, then the BM is very good.
If you're after a smoother, more analogue sound (less exciting?), then the Rega is great. Plus, you get a USB input. Biggest problem for me is the lack of remote control ;)
As always, it depends upon the system that it goes into.
I don't think you'll be disapointed.
Martin
The Scottish branch of AOS had a wee bake off with different Dacs...might be of interest?
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=338303&postcount=505
Hi Dave,
The BM is very good IMHO, as is the Rega Dac.
First off the build quality is in a different league - the BM is a great DAC in a basic case IMHO. The Rega is much more luxurious and that automatically makes it more expensive.
Sound wise, i'd say that if you want a clean, dynamic sound, with very good bass and aren't bothered about the way it looks, then the BM is very good.
If you're after a smoother, more analogue sound (less exciting?), then the Rega is great. Plus, you get a USB input. Biggest problem for me is the lack of remote control ;)
As always, it depends upon the system that it goes into.
I don't think you'll be disapointed.
Martin
Cheers guys. I will take a look at the thread in a mo as it will be an interesting read methinks. I thought for a brief moment today that I would be able to stage my own mini-bake off tomorrow between the Caiman, Bushmaster and Rega DAC 's but alas, the Caiman has sold and is packed up ready to be shipped to its new home in Derry today.
Nice discovery, Dave. Out of interest, can you identify the cable?
It is Sharkwire LOFC 410/0.1mm. Sharkwire are a dutch concern but I can find no mention of this cable on the net. I've owned it since about 2002 so it is possible that it is no longer manufactured, although I would have thought a similar product would probably be available as the company do appear to be in business still. I am guessing the ident breaks down as 410, 0.1mm strands so I over estimated this a little ( by 300 lol) in my original description. I do have a couple of short lengths of their 710 strand cable (around a metre and a half each) but sadly it is nowhere near long enough for a speaker run otherwise I would have given it a go ;)
Aha! I had some lengths of Sharkwire very many years ago and found it to be good stuff too. I used it inside a transmission line speaker I made at the time, the S5TL from IPL (http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/). Maplin Electronics used to sell Sharkwire. Their shielded interconnect cable in a pink-ish shroud was also very good (I still have some in the garage).
I wonder if Maplin still sell Sharkwire as I am curious to hear how the 710 strand stuff performs in my system. Could be fun... :cool:
Dingdong
27-02-2013, 21:11
Maybe the "some other DACs" were over-egging the treble a tad? Just a thought..
May not be everyone's cuppa, but I have to defend it for the "pillow over the speaker" remark - sorry - Remember the firm that makes it and where their main enthusiasm lies.....
As you were chaps....
Dave, I tend to ignore everything you have to say about Rega. Maybe Dick Dunn did have a point.
The Rega dac was just a bit poor imho. Normally I would voice my opinion so strongly, but I think Dave has made a big mistake.
Perhaps the Rega could be described as 'musical'. A bit shit really but will sort of pass music through it.
Dave, I tend to ignore everything you have to say about Rega. Maybe Dick Dunn did have a point.
The Rega dac was just a bit poor imho. Normally I would voice my opinion so strongly, but I think Dave has made a big mistake.
Perhaps the Rega could be described as 'musical'. A bit shit really but will sort of pass music through it.
Hi Mark, when you say "a bit shit" what are you comparing it to?
Cheers,
Well, the proof of the pudding will be in the listening tomorrow :)
Dingdong
27-02-2013, 21:35
Hi Mark, when you say "a bit shit" what are you comparing it to?
Cheers,
Well there was an Audiolab and a Benchmark, and something else I've forgotten the name of. It'll come back to me.
Speakers used were some Audionote J's and some Cheviots. Amps were an Otto se and a large MF classs A jobbie. A Cec and a vrds 10 provided the bits.
It really was a bit of an also ran.
Are you sort of getting the impression that I'm not keen on the Rega?
Which input were you listening to Mark? I was informed earlier that the async USB input has been voiced to give a more fluid/analogue sound and that using coaxial s/pdif livens things up.
Hmm, digital inputs to a DAC shouldn't be 'voiced' at all.
Dingdong
27-02-2013, 22:21
It was using co-ax s/pdif.
Good luck with it.
brian2957
27-02-2013, 22:25
The SPDIF and the USB inputs on the Rega DAC do sound different to my ears . I preferred the USB input myself having tried both for a period of time .
I think you'll find a few Rega DAC users on here who will agree with me that there is a difference.
This is all academic. I have not heard it yet therefore I have been unable to formulate my own opinion, which is something I will be able to do tomorrow and which I am looking forward to doing :cool:
For my part I am hoping the Rega does it for me because as of today I no longer own a Caiman and the Bushmaster goes back at the end of the week...
The USB sounds quite a bit softer (pipe and slippers style ;)) than the spdif inputs from my experience. I think Tim gave an explanation as to why that is somewhere. Something to do with the chips?
Worth playing around with the two options to see which you prefer. I'm using optical spdif myself.
Looking forward to hearing about your Rega/BM comparison Dave.
I am worried now because a couple of years back I bought a DacMagic2 on recommendation and I absolutely hated it because it was too 'pipe and slippers' :eyebrows:
brian2957
27-02-2013, 22:37
Which input were you listening to Mark? I was informed earlier that the async USB input has been voiced to give a more fluid/analogue sound and that using coaxial s/pdif livens things up.
That was my experience Dave . I preferred the USB input for the reasons stated.
Sleep, that's what I need. Time to stop the wheels from turning... :lol:
I can imagine that the Rega gets low marks at a toast off, because its needs longer than that to appreciate it. It's not an edge of your seat product IMHO. Smooth but punchy is how I'd describe my rega dac and amp combo.
I judge a product by its ability to get the toes tapping or make you want to get up and dance to the music. For me, the Rega DAC and Brio do just that, so it must be a good product.
brian2957
27-02-2013, 22:45
Yup that's how I judge products now Martin . The Rega gear certainly passes the musicality test for me mate. Doesn't draw arrention to itself , just plays the music.
Brian ... wakey wakey mate!!! Ah, there you are, nice sleep? :D
Right, the Rega arrived around 10:30 this morning in a far bigger box than I was expecting. I'm used to teeny tiny DAC's and so is my rack, so I had to have a wee shufty about to make space for it to park its butt. It's all hooked up now and I have given it until midday to warm up a bit so now it's raring to go and so am I.
First up is Wings At The Speed Of Sound (FLAC). Now, before I go on I have a teensy complaint: You forgot to send the pipe and slippers mate :eek: TBH I'm not at all upset because I don't think I am going to need them, so you keep them. Besides I've given up smoking and where I'm going, I won't need slippers! Incidentally, the Bushmaster is currently cowering in a corner coz the Rega keeps growling at it.
McCartney and Co are sounding ab fab. You and Martin were right, this thing certainly gets the old feet tapping. I am really impressed with the Rega so far, it has all the best bits of the BM but in full 1080p. I will chuck all sorts at it this afternoon to see how it copes with various genres but quite honestly, you ain't getting it back... :D
I will report back with more news a little later :cool:
P.S. Cheers for the little extras Brian, much appreciated... :youtheman:
Listening to Zeppelin's Trampled Underfoot through the Rega Dac right now, drum thwacks are hitting me in the chest, bass drum is vibrating the sofa under me...
Nowt pipe and slippers about what Im hearing.
DingDong, do you post on RD's forum by any chance? ;)
brian2957
28-02-2013, 12:30
Afternoon Dave , nightshift last night and just got up to see if you had received the DAC. So glad you like it:) . TBH with you I had no worries on that front because this thing just does music so well . Remember that you have the option of digital coax or USB , which both sound different IMHO.
The build of these DACs is also fantastic for the money . I'll keep my eye on this thread for more of your thoughts .:)
I will explore asyncUSB some other day as I am really enjoying how it sounds through the Coax input just now. The CDP is being dealt with via Optical and that sounds pretty damn good too BTW ;)
Excellent news Dave, welcome to the club :)
Brian, you will always be welcome back if it doesn't work out with your Dared ;)
Maybe pipe and slippers was a bit of a strong analogy - it's just not so in-your-face as some other products IMHO. The DAC and Brio are a good combo to tame an up-front sounding system, without making it boring.
Canetoad
28-02-2013, 14:41
Listening to Zeppelin's Trampled Underfoot through the Rega Dac right now, drum thwacks are hitting me in the chest, bass drum is vibrating the sofa under me...
Nowt pipe and slippers about what Im hearing.
DingDong, do you post on RD's forum by any chance? ;)
Gaz, the best album I've found for best kick drum punch is Nickelback - All the Right Reasons. Truly outstanding!
Gaz, the best album I've found for best kick drum punch is Nickelback - All the Right Reasons. Truly outstanding!
I've got that!
Will check it out later...
Scott Nangle's been good enough to let me have a play with one of his other valve amps ....a 9wpc Single Ended Triode amp.
:eek:
There's watts..then theres VALVE watts...
Well, myself and Jo have been listening to all sorts this afternoon and the system is sounding absolutely sublime. We were also joined by my son. The system is very different to how it was the last time he visited and his reaction said it all really. We have been sitting here listening all afternoon with many a 'WOW' and 'Bloody hell that sounds so clear' punctuating the moments between tracks. Job done methinks :cool:
Why did you go and buy that?
Heard one at a bakeoff last year compared with some other dacs. It was a very poor also ran in he opinion of everybody there.
Put a pillow over your speakers and you will get the same effect.
I can only suggest that there was some sort of system mismatch as what you describe bears no relation at all to what I have been hearing all afternoon. I might be critical of the Bushmaster's user interface but I've never been critical of its performance, the BM is an excellent DAC. The Rega however is so much better in every aspect. There is one slight downer though, I will miss the BM's superb headphone stage, the Rega does not have one... :eyebrows:
Dingdong
28-02-2013, 20:55
I can only suggest that there was some sort of system mismatch as what you describe bears no relation at all to what I have been hearing all afternoon. I might be critical of the Bushmaster's user interface but I've never been critical of its performance, the BM is an excellent DAC. The Rega however is so much better in every aspect. There is one slight downer though, I will miss the BM's superb headphone stage, the Rega does not have one... :eyebrows:
Aye, mebbe.
brian2957
28-02-2013, 21:23
Well, myself and Jo have been listening to all sorts this afternoon and the system is sounding absolutely sublime. We were also joined by my son. The system is very different to how it was the last time he visited and his reaction said it all really. We have been sitting here listening all afternoon with many a 'WOW' and 'Bloody hell that sounds so clear' punctuating the moments between tracks. Job done methinks :cool:
Thought you went very quiet on the forum today Dave . Says it all doesn't it. Enjoy :cool:
Says it all doesn't it. Enjoy
It does and I am Brian. Thanks ;)
With the Rega Dac I find that you just want to listen to more music, the same way you do with a good turntable.
Had a few different amps through my system lately and the Dac just keeps doing its thing, not drawing attention to itself.
Lovely bit of kit.
This is the first Rega product I have owned since I got into this game back in the late 1970's ;)
I am now thoroughly pissed off. As I feared would happen, I have effectively ended up renting a faulty Bushmaster for a fortnight for the princely sum of 30 quid :rolleyes:
I will clarify the comment above:
I thought I was the second owner of this Bushmaster but after a PM from the original purchaser I have since discovered that I am the third owner. This chap, who we shall call Owner One, purchased it directly from the manufacturer. Upon receipt Owner One began having problems with the user interface (strangely enough the same problems I have been experiencing with it). Owner One informed the manufacturer that the Auto Input routine within the firmware becomes confused when having to handle more than one digital source. The manufacturer suggested it be sent back for a firmware upgrade and hack (sound familiar?). Unit arrived back from manufacturer having been allegedly fixed and lo and behold, the problem was still there.
After persevering with it for a while Owner One decided he couldn't tolerate its finicky nature any longer so he sold it on to Owner Two. To all intents and purposes Owner Two had no issues with it, but as he admitted to me, he had hardly used it in the couple of months he'd owned it and even when he did, it was hooked up only to a single source,, that being a CD player. Presumably the units firmware, having only been asked to handle one input, consequently behaved itself. Deciding in the end that he didn't need a budget super-DAC, Owner Two then sold the BM onto....
....me. I was over the moon to receive the Bushmaster in mid February and what's more, knowing that I had spent a small fortune on various upgrade components for my system that month, Owner Two very generously told me that he would waive payment until the beginning of this month (March). It soon became apparent that all was not well with the BM however. With two digital sources, one plugged into Optical 1 and and the other into Coax 1 the firmware began its slow dance of confusion and behaved in the same manner as it had with Owner One (of whom I was unaware at this time in mid Feb). I had my CDP running into Optical 1 via a very expensive optical lead and in general the BM would pick it up cleanly most of the time. My music server however, which was running into the Coax 1 input via an equally expensive Digital Coaxial RCA lead, seemed to be causing the BM a real headache (I had previously been running a Caiman from the same manufacturer, and in the same configuration, without issue for nearly two years).
Having only had the BM in my possession for a day and a half, I awoke on my second full day of ownership, turned on all the equipment so it would be warmed up and ready to play some music after breakfast, and then settled down to eat my meal and sup my tea. Breakfast over with and having spruced my self up and gotten dressed, I picked a CD, placed it in the CDP and pressed play. Nothing.... By now I had figured out that I could sort of reset the BM, once it had become confused, by cycling through the inputs and back to the one I'd chosen initially. This I did.... Still nothing.... Booting up the PC I then selected Coax 1, loaded David Gilmore Live In Gdansk into Foobar and hit Play.... Nothing still.... I turned the volume up on the DR5 way past what would be a comfortable listening level and heard soft digital hash, not unlike distant surf breaking on a pebbly beach plus a slight hum. Neither of these noise phenomena are apparent when the DAC is working optimally incidentally.
Not realising that I was about to tread the self same path as Owner One (remember, I was unaware of him at this time and also remember that the manufacturer had already had the unit in to his workshop to repair the fault when in the hands of Owner One), I contacted the manufacturer by email and explained that I was the second owner of this particular BM (in actuality the third) and appraised him of all the issues and told him that the BM appeared to have died. I also asked whether he would deal directly with me re: the warranty, or whether he would prefer the original owner (or Owner Two as he is now known :lol:) deal with it. After agreeing that he would deal with me, the manufacturer asked me to ship it to his workshop at my expense and also requested that I pay a further £10 to him via PayPal to cover return postage, which I did. I was informed that new, updated firmware would be installed and that a hack to bypass the Auto Select routine (which is a complete PITA) would be implemented which he said should cure the unit of its input selection issues.
Three and a bit days later, the unit returned and me keen to get it back in the system and up and running, I discovered that the Auto Select fiasco was no more, I was over the moon. However, it soon became apparent that not all was sweetness and light. Sure, the unit didn't go off hunting other inputs other than the one I wanted anymore, instead when first selected, the input would fail to lock onto the source properly and send out a god-awful loud electronic fart through the speakers. Funny at first, this soon became very frustrating. Again, the unit would occasionally go silent except for the soft digital hash and low hum, but this time switching the unit off and back on would bring it back from its coma. I could almost forgive it though because the sound coming out of this thing was heavenly.
My partner could see that I was becoming increasingly exasperated with the unit, going from extreme lows, when the unit would misbehave, on up to almost rapturous highs when rendering musical works in the only way a Bushmaster knows how, with complete authority. I had almost made up my mind to forgive it its sins when my partner delivered the devastating blow.
"Dave", she said, "I'm afraid to touch it in case I break it". Now, this gear belongs to us. My partner uses it as much as I do and she is as passionate about music as I am. To hear her say that she was afraid to touch it was the final straw, and it had to go...
And so it will be very shortly, back to Owner Two who has now decided that he will keep it after all to run his MiniDisk through. I just hope Owner Two is a patient man for he will need to be, because when this thing sets its mind on being stubborn, it will out-Donkey a Donkey.
nb: Still wondering how it has cost me 30 quid in rent? Well, 20 quid for postage too and from the manufacture with little or no benefit, and a further tenner in postage to ship it back to Owner Two as the original plan to send it back to Scalford with a mutual friend has fallen through. A costly mistake which I will not be repeating... :brickwall: :trust:
Unfortunately I feel as if I have been ripped off, but I am not sure by whom... :confused: :o
Dingdong
02-03-2013, 07:41
If I get time to pick it up later I will do.
vinylspinner
02-03-2013, 08:17
Hi David,
Please let me know If Mark can't collect the BM and return it to me at Scalford on Sunday, If he can't make it I will refund your postage on receipt of the unit.
Also bear in mind that I have already paid £9.25 to post it to you in the first instance so I am also clearly out of pocket here.
Also I would like to point out that I had no idea of any issues with this unit, in fact the times that I used it all was well and I would not have sold it on if it was faulty. Also I made it quite clear in my original for sale post that I had purchased it from another member of this forum and was not the first owner.
Hope this clears up this issue, I must also add that Stan B is sending me a new eprom/firmware update if it is required at no cost to myself, can't be fairer than that.
Nigel
Dingdong
02-03-2013, 08:23
I'll see you later Nigel. :cool:
I don't think any body is having a go at you. I think Dave is just venting his frustration. The situation is not ideal, but shit sometimes happens.
I'll do my best to pick the dac up, but have a lot of things to do before I leave.
vinylspinner
02-03-2013, 08:32
Thanks Mark,
I am sure he isn't Just that comments like Unfortunately I feel as if I have been ripped off, but I am not sure by whom don't help, anyway, I will say no more on this subject.
see you on Sunday for a beer and Wiltshire pork pie.
Nigel
Thanks Mark,
I am sure he isn't Just that comments like Unfortunately I feel as if I have been ripped off, but I am not sure by whom don't help, anyway, I will say no more on this subject.
see you on Sunday for a beer and Wiltshire pork pie.
Nigel
So we are clear Nigel, Owner Two is you:
"To all intents and purposes Owner Two had no issues with it, but as he admitted to me, he had hardly used it in the couple of months he'd owned it and even when he did, it was hooked up only to a single source,, that being a CD player. Presumably the units firmware, having only been asked to handle one input, consequently behaved itself. Deciding in the end that he didn't need a budget super-DAC, Owner Two then sold the BM onto...."
Sorry for any confusion... ;)
The last line was meant to be dark, ironic humour. As Mark has said, the entire episode has left me feeling bruised and just a little battered, I'd like the time to enjoy that feeling for a while longer if I may...
Dingdong
02-03-2013, 08:43
The saga is probably best forgotten about.
Right, I'd better go and finish off some building some cables for a new venture. Tell you all about it over a pie and a pint tomorrow. And my upcoming move to an mc cartridge.
Hi all,
I am owner number one...
I sold it because the auto input select didn't work very well in my installation at the time. It wasn't faulty when I sold it to Nigel and he didn't get in touch to report any problems.
The problem I had was that I was feeding 3 digital inputs into the device and that quite often two or more of these inputs would be on simultaneously. This sent the auto select into chaos mode and the result was that it wouldn't select any input at all. Manual mode worked OK, but I couldn't seem to permanently disable the auto select.
I discussed this with Stan by PM (I have kept my copies) and he sent me an upgraded EEPROM to also fix another problem with an Apple TV compatibility issue. Not sure what the firmware status is currently.
So, bottom line is that if anyone feels that I've ripped them off, please get in touch. Pretty sure the BM is still in warranty, although I understand it may have now been modified.
Hope this completes the picture.
p.s. Love the new avatar Dave :)
Thanks for posting Martin, I kept your anonymity secure because of our PM session, yesterday?
As I mentioned in my post to Nigel, the last line was supposed to be darkly ironic humour which reflects my mood just now, which is pretty dark. On the plus side I got a better DAC as a result so Yin & Yang and all that... :cool:
p.s. Love the new avatar Dave
Cheers Martin, that's what happens when I am in a dark, reflective mood, I get all creative... ;)
Cheers Dave,
Thought I'd better give my side of the story, as the whole thing went public.
:cool:
I made it public Martin because I believe all this aggro is as a result of a flaw in the Bushmasters source select firmware. Stan wanted to send me the firmware to return the Bushmaster to its factory settings and I had strong suspicions it would not solve the problem. Him and I had a disagreement about it and he immediately foreclosed on dealing with me and told me to send the BM back to Nigel so that he could give Nigel a full refund. Your coming forward confirmed for me that the unit also misbehaved with the firmware set to factory settings. It's a great DAC but it is completely hamstrung by this issue. What is the point of having a multi input auto-sensing, source select system if it just does not work properly. I suspect people who have not come across this issue are probably only using one digital source with their BM's, such as Nigel for example. What was so frustrating for me is that I could hear how damn good the Bushmaster was but whenever I changed source or even media player, I had to reset the damn thing so that it would work. As I said, a flawed product.
I'm having no such issues with the Rega DAC and it sounds amazing. Most importantly though, I have piece of mind that no matter which source I select or what media player I use, I won't have to turn it off and back on again each time I want to change formats... :cool:
This is why I leave my BM in manual mode and don't have any problems using it that way. I have Sky HD (optical), Blu-ray (optical) and Touch (co-ax) all connected to it.
I'm sorry that you've had such a trial with it, Dave, but it's worth mentioning again that the Bushmaster is an outstanding sounding DAC. The Gatorised Caiman on my PC isn't half bad, either.
I agree Martin, the Bushmaster is a superb sounding piece of equipment which is what made it all the more frustrating for me. Stan deserves high praise for designing what I have stated previously to be his statement DAC, however the operational discrepancies absolutely killed the deal for me.
You've mentioned leaving it in manual mode before Martin, and that sounds all well and good until one realises that when the unit arrived back from Stan he had parked it permanently in manual mode at my request, and yet the source select and random freeze issues persisted. I had to turn the BM off and back on again to change sources or even media player on my PC, which became an untenable situation for me. Anyway, perhaps this experience will inspire Stan to reduce the complexity of the unit by removing the auto-select code from the firmware, which I feel would go a long way to improving the ownership experience.
The person I have the most sympathy for in all this is Nigel. He had obviously not experienced any of these issues while he owned this unit, having only ever had one digital source hooked up to it, and therefore he was blissfully unaware of the problems lurking just beneath the hood. I think he feels responsible and I may not have helped matters with my earlier rant, and I regret that. Nigel is a top bloke and he bends over backwards to help people out whereever he can and I really hope this unfortunate incident hasn't sullied what has previously been a good relationship.
Right, this is supposed to be a Gallery thread so lets get some piccies up shall we?
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/SAM_1934.jpg
The system as it stands today
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/BampW.jpg
Rega DAC in pride of place with the Classe DR5 and Paul Hynes SR3 PS for the Techie looking on... (If you look closely you can see my grizzly visage looking back at you out of the Rega)
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/SAM_1940.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/SAM_1943.jpg
...and the Valhalla in all its glory... :cool:
brian2957
03-03-2013, 12:10
Very nice Dave . Lovely looking valve amp.
so functionality aside and purely focusing on sound
how would you rate the Rega V the Bushmaster?
It's sounding real good too, got Road To Hell playing just now and Chris Rea's voice is sounding particularly smokey... ;)
so functionality aside and purely focusing on sound
how would you rate the Rega V the Bushmaster?
Easy, the Rega is a Bushmaster GTi :D
Canetoad
03-03-2013, 13:52
Grizzly indeed Dave! ;)
It's sounding real good too, got Road To Hell playing just now and Chris Rea's voice is sounding particularly smokey... ;)
Vinyl or CD? I have it on CD and love it! Wondering if it's any better on vinyl. :scratch:
It's on CD Bernie, would love it on vinyl though ;)
I have it on 12" vinyl and it's quite superb.
Since deciding that I am keeping the Techie, I removed the LAD (Jelco) arm from the LAD TT today in readiness for fitting it to the SL1210. I have a couple of little jobs to do before hand though: Firstly I need to pick up some tiny allen keys so that I can service the arm lift mechanism as it needs fettling to work properly, and then I need to acquire a Linn arm board for the Techie and a tonearm cable. Once these jobs are completed I can set about fitting the Jelco to the SL... :cool:
It would seem that the LAD/Jelco arm I acquired recently is not in as good a condition as it should be and I may have to send it off to be fettled. More expense :rolleyes: And the hits just keep on coming.... :(
The last couple of weeks in Synsei towers have been very stressful, what with misbehaving DAC's and wonky arm bits, so it is with a lighter heart that I bring some good news at last.
Mark (Dingdong) popped over this afternoon to complete some work on the Valhalla, work he had been meaning to do whilst the amp was still in his possession, and he would have too had I not hijacked it off him before he got the opportunity. Basically he replaced some caps which were showing signs of strain with some of a finer vintage. Can't remember which but he assured me they were a damn sight better than those he removed. I'm sure he will be along soon to enlighten us all ;)
I have been listening to a varied selection of stuff since completion and it is a bit of a mixed bag. The top end and midrange are bloody incredible now, and I mean utterly mind-blowing, this is a very, very good amplifier. It is hard for me to put it into words without it sounding a bit clichéd, but everything sounds ultra real. Cymbals shimmer with metallic realism, hand claps are no longer just a dull slap, one can almost feel the hands coming together. Voices... Imparted emotion, breaths, an inadvertent smacking of lips, it is all accurately portrayed. Listening to Janis Ian Live, a sudden, shuddering screech is heard as a musician moves a chair during a quieter passage on one of the tracks. Sublime, utterly sublime... :)
The downside? The lower frequencies have lost all their oomph. I am hoping it is just a case of the new caps needing to burn in for a while, but I am really missing the amazing bass heft the Valhalla displayed before... :eyebrows:
Dingdong
15-03-2013, 23:59
The new caps are on the psu smoothing and are chemi-cons. Hopefully it'll all sound better tomorrow. Otherwise I'll have to start dicking about with it.
Let me know how it goes.
Still not finished the armboard for the SP-10. More drilling to do.
walpurgis
16-03-2013, 00:02
I really hate letting other people work on my Hi-Fi. As far as possible I avoid getting any work done, as I'd sooner do it myself.
As for having a TT set up properly, I've never found anything I couldn't do, including a full rebuild, service and arm installation (without manufacturer's template).
But that's just me, I'm a bit single minded.
That's fine if you have the knowledge Geoff, but I also have to consider my health, which is not good mate.
Mark, this thing with the bass is really weird. Listening to an album I know very well earlier, I noticed that a plucked passage played on a double bass was completely absent... :lol:
Dingdong
16-03-2013, 00:19
It's not gone bang yet, which is always good. Hopefully it all sounds a bit better shortly.
I wouldn't recommend anybody working on valve amps meself unless they really know what they are doing. Very bad things can happen.
walpurgis
16-03-2013, 00:34
The bass drop-out seems odd. Sounds like the sort of thing an arm mass and cartridge compliance mismatch could cause, but with the Jelco you should have sufficient mass. Strange.
Dingdong
16-03-2013, 00:38
The bass drop-out seems odd. Sounds like the sort of thing an arm mass and cartridge compliance mismatch could cause, but with the Jelco you should have sufficient mass. Strange.
But the only thing that has been changed is that I fitted some caps in the valve amp.
Nobody touched the tt.
Dingdong
16-03-2013, 15:49
Has it blown up yet?
Seemingly the Valhalla is very sensitive to placement. I used to have it sited on a large granite block, however after the re-cap I transferred it onto a couple of spare and less massy granite platforms. It was whilst the amp was sat on these that the bass went AWOL. Today I have tried a totally different approach with excellent results. See photos below (before/after)
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/DSC_0024-1.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/DSC_0028.jpg
Apart from sounding far better I think the cork bungs which I am using as makeshift vibration absorbing feet look really cool. I am a happy bunny again ;)
Dingdong
17-03-2013, 00:08
I'll try and remember to bring some of them isolation feet that we sell with me next time.
Glad to hear it's all working well. No idea why the sound was affected in the way it was. I
Did you get your arm sorted?
Dingdong
17-03-2013, 01:04
Arm now mounted. But have just mounted the Asak so far. Will put the Koetsu on in the morning.
Just wanted to make sure I'm happy with the alignment of everything first. Pictures will be posted in the near future.
I think a tt cover needs sorting asap. Or maybe I will just sell the cats off for scientific experiments.
Here's a thing, got an interesting sound emanating from the Valhalla. Yup, defo coming from the valve amp and it is not volume dependant, have a listen:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/89970709/left%20channel.wav (you will need to crank the volume up)
Dingdong
18-03-2013, 11:54
I'll go and dig some earphones out and have a listen. See you later.
Dingdong
18-03-2013, 12:57
I will get around to leaving the house in a bit.
Just that I've spent a bit more time fine tuning the Koetsu setup, and it's just so f***ing good.
No worries. T-Amp is in circuit and Valhalla is unplugged. Missing it already... :lol:
Dingdong
18-03-2013, 13:28
Just one more album and I'll jump in the car. Honest.
So, this album, how long is it? :lol:
The Valhalla has gone to Valve Amp Hospital as it is feeling poorly, back to using the Mini-T again then. Although it does not possess the Valhalla's poise, finesse and airiness, it does have its charms... :)
The Valhalla has gone to Valve Amp Hospital as it is feeling poorly...
I hope she makes a quick recovery Dave.
Martin.
P.s. just sold the Hafler DH 220 on ebay tonight ;)
Dingdong
18-03-2013, 23:14
Finally took the top off it. Will hook some speakers up in a sec. Will have a further play with psu caps.
And maybe do some wiring. And dick about with decoupling caps. And generally have a right good bodge. ;)
Dingdong
18-03-2013, 23:23
Some daft git had really screwed it up messing about tightening the rca sockets. ;)
I did get you to check 'em out and you said they were fine, so that's two daft gits then... :lol:
Is that what was wrong then? I did wonder whether I had f*cked something up when those pliers slipped, which is why I got you inspect it... :eyebrows:
As good as the Amptastic T-amp is on most material, it does not possess the sheer musicality of the Valhalla... :eyebrows:
Dingdong
23-03-2013, 19:07
Just think how much you are going to appreciate it when you get it back. Car is in the garage, so might be mid-week.
Dingdong
23-03-2013, 19:19
Nah, just the front springs for the mot. Goes in Monday and will get it back Tuesday.
Only needed the one front spring, but I'm getting both at the front done.
Always best, can give the car weird handling characteristics if only one is replaced. So how's the Valhalla sounding, all good?
Dingdong
23-03-2013, 20:02
Well the the blacks are inky black and there is certainly no hum.
I was expecting the resistors to have been here already so I waited to put it all back together. Inputs have been rewired though.
The 1042 has arrived. I'll give it a quick try here and then you can have a borrow and see what you think.
I seem to have amassed a lot of cartridges in the last fortnight.
Dingdong
23-03-2013, 20:26
There might be Benz Ebony LP on its way to give a try as well.
Probably a big cartridge sale coming up.
Dingdong
23-03-2013, 20:51
Well if I'm spending a fair amount of my cash I want to get it right.
Snow permitting a couple of friends are coming over tomorrow to play cartridges. The vdH has run in very nicely. The Transfiguration was sounding rather pleasant when I tried it briefly the other day. And the Koetsu seemed to bestowed with magical music making properties.
And then there is an old of of a Linn Asak that will probably beat them all. Maybe not, but it wasn't that bad. It certainly offers the best value for money at £0.
Won't try the 1042 as the arm is way too heavy for it. I think the needle would be halfway accross the lp before the arm moved. My trusty old TD160 and Hadcock will be brought out of retirement to try it.
These bad boys should be arriving tomorrow :D
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Matched-quad-6P3S-Silver-Grid-6L6-5881-Russian-tubes-NEW-NOS-/00/s/MTE3N1gxNjAw/$(KGrHqNHJDcE-o13oU)NBPq8bZig4g~~60_57.JPG
Dingdong
26-03-2013, 23:17
Cool. I should be over on Thursday. Car is back and I'm £300 lighter.
T'is the way of cars unfortunately :eyebrows:
Elsewhere on the site I began a thread about an odd buzzing hum which emanates from the left channel of my Valhalla amp after switch on, and which gradually fades away to nothing around 15 to 20 seconds later. Well, as of three days ago the issue seems to have gone walkies. I am cautiously delighted that this is so but, knowing electrical equipment as I do I am well aware that faults don't just up and fix themselves. Again, should I be worried?
On the plus side the Valhalla is back to its former glory and sounds absolutely marvellous with the pair of NOS Philips ECC88's I fitted in place of the Mullards, £9.99 well spent I'd say. I have been so impressed with these that I bought a second pair off the same chap last Thursday, so I am well sorted for the future. Sadly I have had to open a case on ebay against the seller from whom I ordered a matched quad of Russian made 6L6's on March 18th, unfortunately they haven't turned up.
Not for the first time I would like to thank Mark (Dingdong) for all the work he has done to the Valhalla to try and bring it up to standard. He has been very patient with me and in the main has succeeded in turning what was quite a tired budget Chinese valve amp into something that is really quite special. Frankly, without his help I probably would have sold it on by now. Thanks Mark :)
brian2957
17-04-2013, 07:43
It's good to have friends Dave :lol:
Sods law was invoked this morning and of course the wayward 6L6's I mentioned in my previous post deigned to turn up this morning. That is the good news... :eyebrows:
The bad news is that the valve bases on the Russian valves are too wide so they won't drop through the holes in the top of the amp to seat in their sockets... POO!!!
So now I have a NOS matched quad of Russian 6l6's for sale if anyone wants them. I'd like 35 quid delivered, which is what I paid for them all in.
Do the valve cages not come off, daftee? If so, remove them, fit yer new valves, and worry not. The cages aren't necessary.
Marco.
The cages aren't the problem Marco. The valve sockets sit inside the amp and are accessed through a circular cutout on the top plate and it is the cutout which is too narrow for the valve base to pass through.
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/4d78459d-2381-4b75-9884-da81837531af.jpg (http://s1019.photobucket.com/user/Sgtgrash/media/Hifi%20Stuff/4d78459d-2381-4b75-9884-da81837531af.jpg.html)
Hi Dave,
Can't all the unnecessary 'gubbins' be removed so that the valve bases are exposed? If not, I'm sorry to say it's a rather impractical design. I'd never use a valve amp where I couldn't get easy access to all the important bits!
Marco.
To help clarify, the top plate is a 10mm thick aluminium casting which could be removed, however it would leave the innards exposed to prying little fingers and I can't have that, which is one of the reasons I chose to buy it. I assumed that valve bases were a standard width, it didn't occur to me that they aren't.
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/2013-04-18181503.jpg (http://s1019.photobucket.com/user/Sgtgrash/media/Hifi%20Stuff/2013-04-18181503.jpg.html)
Yeah, I see where you're coming from now - shame!
Marco.
It is a shame because I have heard really good things about these valves and I am gutted I cannot use them and the price was right too. Nigel (Vinylspinner) has purchased them from me and he says he has several matched quads of 6L6's and 5881's which may do the job. I just need to turn the amp off and measure the width of the Svet bases to check that his conform to the same dimensions.
I have lost patience with the Valhalla. After performing brilliantly for the last week it has started to play up again and this time it is worse than ever. Again I am getting an intermittent buzzing from the left channel but it has also developed a new fault, the bass is several DB's down on the left channel compared to the right and the low level rustling leaves sound is back again. I've been running the Mini-T in its stead for half the day and in comparison the Valhalla is sounding grainy and thin in texture. Yesterday it was sounding amazing :scratch: I feel sorry for Mark (Dingdong) for he has spent hours trying to sort this issue out to no avail. I am crossing my fingers and hoping against hope that it isn't a problem with the output transformers because that could end up being very costly indeed :eyebrows:
I am going to pack it away in its box and stash it in the garage until I have enough money to have the fault diagnosed. In the meantime I have bought a recapped Quad 306 from Shane. I have always been curious about Quads baby 306 and I nearly bought one instead of a Hafler DH220 a couple of years back. I think the dinky 306 will be a good match for my system and I am looking forward to receiving it... :)
The 306 is an easy and cheap one to supply-recap if necessary and bear in mind it inverts phase, as does the 303 and I think the 405 series from memory. Worth keeping as a safe backup. It shouldn't be as assertive as the Mini-T but its velvet qualities should be easy on the ears IMO.
Have you asked Anthony TD for a quote to check your valve amp over?
Not yet Dave. Frankly dude I am brassic just now and wouldn't want to waste Anthony's time, I will contact him once I have a few quid stashed away. The Valhalla is not going anywhere, for when it works it sounds fabulous so it will give me something to aim for. Besides, it puts out a lot of heat and with summer coming and the temperatures climbing it will be unbearable to have it on in the room. As such I have been toying with the idea of buying a solid state summer amp for quite a while and the Quad fits the bill perfectly. I've not owned any Quad equipment before (although my Dad did back in the 70's) so it is a cherry I am looking forward to losing, and on my 50th too... :lol:
Ali Tait
21-04-2013, 02:45
When you have a chance to have the amp looked at, give Nick a shout, he's da man.
After a very pleasant three year relationship I have finally broken up with my Goldring 900IGC. They were three years of fun and frivolity but of late it has become obvious we are no longer compatible. To be serious, I have a NOS G820 cart and stylus (now fitted to the SIII btw, more about that in a mo) plus there is a DL160 on the way from MartinT with only a few hours on it. Martin is in to astronomy, as am I, however Martin has a working back and I do not. He also wants a telescope and I happen to have one that I can no longer use comfortably, therefore a deal was struck and the swap is going ahead. Tony (Twotone) is the new owner of the 900IGC. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have Tony ;)
So, to the G820. Could someone please explain to me how such a heffalump of a cart can sound so good fitted to the super slim, low mass SME SIII? I haven't even set it up properly yet and already it is rocking :scratch: Not that I'm complaining mind ;) Eventually it will be rehoused in a 9" Jelco/LAD arm which has been retro-fitted with a Shuggie collar, however this arm has a droopy weight stub and having failed to sort it out myself I will have to send it off to J7 so he can work his magic on it, which is a bummer because it had visited J7 sometime before I purchased it.
Rare Bird
27-04-2013, 21:07
So, to the G820. Could someone please explain to me how such a heffalump of a cart can sound so good fitted to the super slim, low mass SME SIII? I haven't even set it up properly yet and already it is rocking :scratch: Not that I'm complaining mind ;)
Depends what version. If it's say a 'SE' then it's an high compliance cart which would work loverly with your arm...I used to own an '820E' it sounded good to me... I'm growing to love the Stanton '681' even fitted to the piece of shite of a TT i'm using :D i don't think i'll ever change this cartridge even though it does tend to show up a bit more surface noise than my previous cart..
It sounds fab André and it seems to have more bass heft than the 900 although it isn't quite so well controlled, that may be due to me just slapping it in the arm without setting it up though. I am looking forward to doing that tomorrow. I dare not do it now as I have a vicious cold and don't want to wreck anything due to a violent sneezing session... :eyebrows:
When you have a chance to have the amp looked at, give Nick a shout, he's da man.
Yup, either Nick or Anthony, both are equally as good! :)
Marco.
I will contact them in due course although I need to save some pennies first. It will be going to whomever gives me the better quote ;)
Tomorrow I should be receiving a Quad 306 power amp which I bought from Shane (Southhall-1998) some time ago now. It has had a service and a re-cap so with any luck it will sound a bit special, plus I have a sneaky feeling the Quad is going to sit in my system rather well. If it does then I will need to decide what to do about the Valhalla. Although I would like to keep it and have it fixed at some point, like most things in life it will come down to simple economics in the end. Should the Quad better the sonic capabilities of the Valhalla then I really need to be asking myself whether owning and running a valve amp is a luxury I can afford. The blunt answer to that is probably 'NO'. I will have some inkling of where I am going with it in a couple of days I guess... :cool:
Having never seen a Quad 306 in the metal I was entirely unprepared for how dinky they are, it is really cute in an industrial sort of way. Size is not indicative of sound quality however, a lesson I have learnt from my ownership of the fabulous Amptastic Mini-T. As I mentioned in my last post I had an inkling that the little Quad amp might be a bit special and so it has turned out to be. I am sure others are well aware of the qualities of Quad amplification, however from a personal standpoint this is the most valve-like sounding solid state amp I have ever listened to. It is very open and it projects such a wonderfully authentic soundstage. There is a vice like grip to the bass which has transformed the performance of the DM2's no end, with them now sounding rhythmic and quick witted, even more so than when they are hooked up to the Mini-T for example. One advantage the Quad has is that it runs very cool, which is pretty much what I expected and it is a blessing, especially with the warmer weather and all ;)
So, are there any drawbacks? A couple of very minor ones, yes. The top end doesn't quite glisten the way it does when using the Mini-T and the Valhalla. The difference is very slight though and I can live with it. Also the mid-range has lost just a touch of openness compared with the Valhalla but again the differences are very slight so it is nae bother.
All in all I am very happy with the Quad. Now I need to decide what to do with the Valhalla. Decisions, decisions... :scratch:
Oh, I almost forgot: I received a Denon DL160 from MartinT yesterday. We agreed to do a trade, my telescope for his DL. Just for a giggle I installed it into the SME III yesterday without too many expectations, after all the two should be a terrible match, right? Not so. This is my first MC cartridge and I now realise why some who are familiar with MC carts just won't countenance an MM cart in their system. I will just say that if my eyes had been opened any wider I would be rummaging around on the floor looking for my eyeballs. The SQ from this cart is something else, why have Denon stopped making them?
Thank you Martin ;)
My short foray into valve amplification is over and as a result I have been left with an amplifier which does not function properly and which I cannot afford to have repaired, and that is such a shame as I have had the chance to hear it at its best whilst I've owned it and it did sound quite remarkable. The stark choice that faces me is thus, do I throw good money after bad and send it off to have it fettled properly at considerable expense, or do I bite the bullet and sell it on for a song to someone who has the ability diagnose the problem and carry out the work for themselves? Neither choice appeals, however the only other option is to keep it as a rather expensive paperweight and a constant reminder of my foolhardiness. I might have considered hanging on to it with the intention of having it repaired once funds allow if it were not for the sublime quality of the QUAD 306 which has replaced it. The 306 is a lovely little amp which sits really well within the system delivering the sweetest music with no fuss whatsoever, I am quite smitten with it. If only I had bought the QUAD first... :rolleyes:
As a result the Valhalla is up for sale. It will need a new matched quad of 6L6's at the very least. It has just been fitted with a NOS pair of Philips ECC88's and I have another pair which have never been used which I would be willing to include in the sale as well. These easily sound as good as the Mullard's they replace which are now defunct. I am open to reasonable offers as I understand there will be some costs involved for the potential purchaser.
jandl100
18-05-2013, 08:43
Oh poo. Sorry to read the sad tale of the valve amp, Dave. :( I think you've been unlucky, valve amps can sound fabulous and be very reliable.
In retrospect, for a valve newbie the more established path of Croft or Leak ST20, for example, would have been wiser.
Maybe a 'valve guru' here on AOS will be willing to take it off your hands for a sensible price? ... Maybe they could even take it on as a project, and then pay you according to how much the fettling costs? That's just a thought, and easy for me to suggest as I couldn't possibly do it myself!
Hopefully, your foray into MC carts will be happier! :) By a curious coincidence, your old Goldring IGC900 may well be arriving at Jerry Towers today!
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Celestion%20Damage%20-%20Hermes%20Couriers/CelestionDamageMyHermes1.jpg (http://s1019.photobucket.com/user/Sgtgrash/media/Celestion%20Damage%20-%20Hermes%20Couriers/CelestionDamageMyHermes1.jpg.html)
These have been living in the garage for the past two years after they had a rather unpleasant brush with a clumsy courier firm and I have been um'ing and ah'ing about what to do with them ever since. After mentioning them on a thread begun by Xapito in which he writes about his sick Ditton 22's, I have now decided to break them and sell the parts on (the tweeters are destined for Xapito's Dittons).
I have them in the system just now to test that everything is as it should be. Despite the damage to the cabinets their structural integrity was not compromised by the rough handling they received and they appear to be working to spec. I had them hanging off the back of my old Hafler the last time I heard them and as such I wasn't 100% impressed. Hooking them up to the QUAD 306 however has transformed them. The humble County is a seriously capable speaker system for all that. Effectively they are Ditton 15xr's without an ABR and in a smaller cab and as such they are not subject to the slightly woolly bass response the 15xr's ABR can impart on the sound. The bass is not quite as extended as that from the DM2's but by George is it tight. Kick drums have a tangible immediacy and the mids are to die for. Imaging is good too although the soundstage isn't as open as I get from the DM2's, neither does it have as much depth or height, but I could overcome these factors for the sheer foot-tapping ability of these wonderful little speakers. It's a real shame that I have to break them up but hey ho, needs must :(
Here is one of the County's blasting out 'You Can Call Me Al' from Paul Simon's Graceland :)
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Celestion%20Damage%20-%20Hermes%20Couriers/8df5faa4-22e0-4fc7-90f2-8350cb592972.jpg (http://s1019.photobucket.com/user/Sgtgrash/media/Celestion%20Damage%20-%20Hermes%20Couriers/8df5faa4-22e0-4fc7-90f2-8350cb592972.jpg.html)
southall-1998
27-05-2013, 19:29
The Leak 20 is a good recommendation. Very musical sounding little thing. But don't expect the Leak 20 to be cuddly sounding though ;)
That is the end of my little sojourn into valve amplification Shane, it is far too expensive and way to fragile to entrust to my clumsy hamfists... :lol:
Anyway, I have the best of both worlds now with the QUAD, it really is a peach of an amp, I can't thank you enough... :cool:
EDIT: :doh: :lol: See what I did there??? Ahem... :o
southall-1998
27-05-2013, 19:37
That is the end of my little sojourn into valve amplification Shane, it is far too expensive and way to fragile to entrust to my clumsy hamfists... :lol:
Anyway, I have the best of both worlds now with the QUAD, it really is a peach of an amp, I can't thank you enough... :cool:
:thumbsup: :hifives:
Rare Bird
27-05-2013, 19:55
That is the end of my little sojourn into valve amplification
I had enough of that lark a long time ago..Vintage transistors or nowt with me, preferrabley Germaniums :eyebrows:
I had enough of that lark a long time ago..Vintage transistors or nowt with me, preferrabley Germaniums :eyebrows:
Are they better than Geraniums??? :lol:
Effectively they are Ditton 15xr's without an ABR and in a smaller cab and as such they are not subject to the slightly woolly bass response the 15xr's ABR can impart on the sound.
{COUGH}!! ;)
Shoot those fooking couriers, btw... :guns:
Marco.
preferrabley Germaniums :eyebrows:
They're even more fragile than valves, Andr'e, and not cheap to replace. Be very careful with germanium circuits, they can chain react when one device blows.
{COUGH}!! ;)
Shoot those fooking couriers, btw... :guns:
Marco.
I did. Now they only deliver parcels up to 5kg in weight with subbies using their own vehicles. I don't mess about... :lol:
Rare Bird
27-05-2013, 23:47
They're even more fragile than valves, Andr'e, and not cheap to replace. Be very careful with germanium circuits, they can chain react when one device blows.
I think i have three or four Germanium based amps, all fully rebuilt, never ever play music loud..there's no chance of any of them breaking into a sweat, they been good for 45 years, five of since being fettled.. :eyebrows:
Been having a sabbatical due to life throwing me a few curve balls recently mainly regarding my health, but shit happens :eyebrows:
I have also reached a stage where I am very happy with the music my system reproduces to the point where I wear an inane grin whenever I sit down for a sesh :)
Glad things are on the up, Dave. Keep that smile going no matter what!
It has come to my attention that the DL160 I acquired from MartinT recently is not at all happy in the SME III. Although mids and highs sound very good indeed, bass is sadly lacking. I'm guessing this is because the Series III doesn't have enough mass to control everything (I was warned this might be the case). I have a LAD arm knocking about (effectively a 9" Jelco 370H) replete with Shuggie collar which would be far more suitable for the job, however it needs fettling and funds to do so are non-existent. I'm also lacking a suitable armboard and cable to fit to the Techie for this arm. In light of this I have removed the DL160 and replaced it with a Goldring G820 I bought a few months ago. I am seriously impressed. It does not quite match the Denon's finesse up top but damn it's got a ballsy mid and bottom. In fact it sounds much like the G900IGC I ran previously but with everything turned up to '11'. In light of my dire financial situation I think the G820 will be staying in the Series III for the foreseeable ;)
walpurgis
16-07-2013, 22:26
everything turned up to '11'.
I've got a '12' Dave. Bet nobody else has.
Seriously though, the DL-160 is a very capable and musical cartridge, far nicer than the DL-110, but as you suspect it requires a fairly heavy arm (although mine worked fine in a lightly damped Mission 774). One thing you will definitely notice if you use just about any other cartridge, is more record surface noise. For some reason the Denon is amazingly quiet. You could try the DL-160 with a decent lump of blutak on the SME headshell.
(like the new avatar by the way. Lightning is my second favourite plane next to the Mk.21 Spitfire)
Are we related? :) They are my two favourite planes as well, along with the Yankee P38 Lightning. Regarding the Spitfire, I have always preferred the Griffon engined kites to the Merlin examples. I'm particularly fond of the rare Spit with contra-rotating propellers (I forget which model number it is) ;)
The Grand Wazoo
16-07-2013, 23:23
VZ8BUNJYtOo
walpurgis
16-07-2013, 23:25
Yeah, love the P38. I saw one doing its stuff at the 'Fighter Meet' at North Weald many years ago. Beautiful!
There were a couple of lovely Chance Vought Corsairs (huge prop), a Curtiss Kittyhawk, an ME 109 (with original Benz V12), Grumman Tigercat (very fast) and all the regular British stuff (and some Mustangs) going through their paces. There was even a WW2 Lysander, lovely plane. Great day out!
In truth I love all the old warbirds Geoff, they have engines that sound like they mean business. I love to visit old, abandoned WWII airfields just to soak up the atmosphere. Nowadays they are such peaceful places, however before long I can almost hear the hustle and bustle and the sound of aircraft taxiing out for take off. I have been moved to tears on occasions.
VZ8BUNJYtOo
Just lovely Chris, thank you for posting that. What a revelation that aircraft must have been to a pilot flying one for the first time. No gyroscopic effect from the propeller when manoeuvring must have made it a dandy to fly, and the noise?? Sheer bliss... :)
The Grand Wazoo
16-07-2013, 23:38
Glad you enjoyed it!
walpurgis
16-07-2013, 23:45
I used to go to North Weald often (and also to drag racing, amazing stuff!), but in the last maybe fifteen years or more I just don't seem to get organised for it. Old age?
I think probably the best sounding plane I've heard and seen, is the Mosquito. They had a newly restored one at North Weald last time I went. Absolutely gorgeous. A pair of Merlins doing the bizz!
I grew up near Northolt Airfield and vividly remember maritime Avro Shackletons operating from there. They sounded fantastic with the four Griffons thundering away. The rare (even then) American Lockheed Neptunes flew from there as did the Fairy Gannets, all incredible sounding aircraft. They filmed the 'Battle of Britain' movie from (and above) there when I was a kid. What a treat. So many WW2 planes (pretend) dogfighting right over my house!!!
I love that movie but I find it frustrating that the German planes used were not ME109's, I believe they were modified P40's :scratch:
I love the Lightning and Spitfire, too. Not forgetting the Vulcan, surely the best looking bomber? A word has to be mentioned for the most gorgeous American jet of all time, though:
http://flyawaysimulation.com/media/images3/images/CAF-F-104-G-starfighter-fsx2.jpg
walpurgis
17-07-2013, 10:08
I always thought the Northrop T38 Talon jet trainer had perfect lines. Better than the F5 operational version.
http://i39.tinypic.com/2hhgea1.jpg
walpurgis
17-07-2013, 10:12
I love that movie but I find it frustrating that the German planes used were not ME109's, I believe they were modified P40's :scratch:
I remember being told that the 109s used in The Battle of Britain movie were ex Spainish Air Force and had Merlins installed instead of the Daimler Benz engines. If you look at the ones in the film, you'll see that the intake cowling beneath the prop is deeper than on the WW2 BF109s.
http://i42.tinypic.com/14d3qu0.jpg
I love the Lightning and Spitfire, too. Not forgetting the Vulcan, surely the best looking bomber? A word has to be mentioned for the most gorgeous American jet of all time, though:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p480x480/1000193_601093049911220_123797783_n.jpg
The Vulcan is a bit special Martin. I also have a bit of a soft spot for the Handley Page Victor too. The old Starfighter is a great looking plane however it could be a bit of a death trap unfortunately. There is a display team in the US called The Starfighters who operate three aircraft for air display purposes. The F104 still holds the altitude record for a jet aircraft at 104,000 feet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6K4iSxET6g
I remember being told that the 109s used in The Battle of Britain movie were ex Spainish Air Force and had Merlins installed instead of the Daimler Benz engines. If you look at the ones in the film, you'll see that the intake cowling beneath the prop is deeper than on the WW2 BF109s.
Ah, that explains a lot Geoff. The Daimler Benz engine fitted to ME109's was fuel injected and inverted in its bay. This gave the 109 an important advantage over fighters fitted with carburetted engines, such as the Spitfire. It could perform negative G manoeuvres with aplomb without the engine cutting out due to fuel starvation, and when flown by an experienced pilot the 109 could be deadly. The best version was the 109G :)
http://www.airpowerworld.info/ww2-fighter-planes/messerschmitt-bf-109g.jpg
walpurgis
17-07-2013, 18:47
The F-111 was a purposeful looking plane. Monstrously fast. There's a video clip about showing one in low level supersonic flight radiating a huge shock wave.
http://i44.tinypic.com/sqmm4n.jpg
The XB-70 Valkyrie is one of my favourites for spectacular looks, not to mention that this very big plane topped mach 3 in testing!
http://i40.tinypic.com/2gtrsef.jpg
I made a model kit of a Valkyrie and a North American Vigilante at the same time when I was a kid, then shot them both to pieces with my air rifle. I was a cute kid me... :lol:
walpurgis
17-07-2013, 19:23
I still do that!
southall-1998
17-07-2013, 20:28
The F-111 was a purposeful looking plane. Monstrously fast. There's a video clip about showing one in low level supersonic flight radiating a huge shock wave.
http://i44.tinypic.com/sqmm4n.jpg
The XB-70 Valkyrie is one of my favourites for spectacular looks, not to mention that this very big plane topped mach 3 in testing!
http://i40.tinypic.com/2gtrsef.jpg
That plane is doing a shit :D
The old Starfighter is a great looking plane however it could be a bit of a death trap unfortunately. There is a display team in the US called The Starfighters who operate three aircraft for air display purposes. The F104 still holds the altitude record for a jet aircraft at 104,000 feet.
Thanks for that, Dave. So the F104, Vulcan and Concorde remain my all-time favourites.
That plane is doing a shit :D
Ah the F-111, whilst living in Norfolk in the 80's, l was working on a barn roof and one of these things flew overhead at low level( when the USAF were still allowed to do so) B'Jesus it was the loudest thing l have ever heard in my life, l was rooted to the spot unable to move as all my senses had been scrambled, incredibly loud and as Geoff said very rapido indeed.
We used to get a lot of A10 Thunderbolts flying low level over here back in the 1980's and 90's. Fabulous aircraft, as agile as a cat and remarkably big for all that ;)
http://www.free-wallpapers-free.com/wallpapers/full/mi/military-a10_thunderbolt-1.jpg
realysm42
29-07-2013, 21:53
That plane was built around the most monstrous gun ever made!
walpurgis
29-07-2013, 22:35
That plane was built around the most monstrous gun ever made!
Are you sure? I believe there's a version of the Hercules that carries a heavy cannon and during WW2, both the Germans and Allies experimented with similar ideas. Beaufighter and Botha if I recall.
realysm42
30-07-2013, 13:34
Are you sure? I believe there's a version of the Hercules that carries a heavy cannon and during WW2, both the Germans and Allies experimented with similar ideas. Beaufighter and Botha if I recall.
Matter of opinion I guess and in mine it is yes.
Have you seen what an A-10 can do to a tank with it?
walpurgis
30-07-2013, 15:38
Have you seen what an A-10 can do to a tank with it?
No, not a lot of warfare round this way. :)
You may like to check out the weaponry carried by the AC-130H Hercules.
realysm42
30-07-2013, 15:53
Yes, they are imposing bits of aircraft when kitted out properly!
Not much going on at synsei towers these days other than music, which is sounding sublime. Apart from swapping out the DL160 for a Goldring 820 a couple of weeks ago (better match for the arm) the system configuration remains as it was when I installed the Quad 306. It must be doing something right :D
Over the last few days I have been having a good chinwag with Paul from Reffc via PM's who is a thoroughly decent chap by the way. Ostensibly we have been discussing the IC's he is assembling for me, although we have also been chatting about our systems and the hifi scene in general, and it got me thinking about my own situation and where I'm at with my system. Below is an extract from one of my PM's to Paul which sums up exactly where I am just now and roughly how I got here.
If I had bottomless pockets I might possibly be persuaded to push the boat out and pick up a couple of truly top end components and perhaps even spend a little upgrading the Techie a bit more, however I worry that I'd just end up back where I was a couple of years ago, with a selection of products that individually were very capable but collectively didn't quite gel. The thing is, the components I owned back then only cost me a few quid from ebay, I dread to think how much damage I might do to my psyche (not to mention my relationship) if I had unlimited resources to play with. No, I am perfectly happy where I am at the moment barring a few small tweaks here and there. All the improvements I've made to the system since then have been well thought out and properly costed, which has left me with a powerful sense of achievement. I enjoy all sorts of music these days whereas before I'd choose stuff which played to the systems strengths. Because of all the effort and thought I've put into assembling my current system it has now become an unsung hero, I no longer think about the gear at all when I put an album on and that is a very nice place to be. I don't think I would get that same sense of achievement if money was no object.
Compared to some here on AoS I have spent a pittance on my quest to garner a deeper involvement in the music I own, and yet here I sit with a more emotional understanding of the craft of musical performance all due to a bit of effort and some judicious choices. I can't say it more succinctly than that... ;)
The Grand Wazoo
08-08-2013, 19:22
That sounds like a good place to be Dave.
My main system has been stable for a long, long time now.
It is a wonderful feeling, is it not Chris? It has been a forty year journey all in but it has been more than worth the effort. This isn't a pride thing, although I'd be lying if I said there was none at all. The biggest joy for me is when listening to a live performance I am not just hearing the music, I can also hear the venue the musicians are performing in, that can be a truly magical experience.
So has the quad replaced the Valhalla now Dave?
My main system has been stable for a long, long time now.
I'm nearly there Chris, but I have just managed to finally 'scratch my itch' and took delivery of an original spec, boxed and mint 405-2 recently. Its going back to Quad next week for a service, as I want it in an original unmolested state, then its going to get a DAC plugged straight into the back and my Harbeth's hanging off it. If it works then I'm done for the long haul, if it doesn't I will have scratched my itch and its back to the Rega and I'm still done for the long haul.
It is indeed a great place to be Dave, now you can explore the wonderful world of music and not view it as a test signal like some people seem to :lol: I have noticed you have been testing your musical boundaries of late too, good on you ;)
So has the quad replaced the Valhalla now Dave?
Yes it has Mark. I'm in two minds whether to hang onto it or not to be honest with you. Currently the Valhalla is sitting in its box in the garage feeling a bit sorry for itself. I would prefer to get it fettled and keep it as a 'winter' amp as it chucks out quite a bit of heat and therefore makes the room very cosy indeed, and of course it sounds wonderful when it's on song. However that is not going to happen anytime soon due to financial constraints. It could also do with a new quad of 6L6's as the current ones are just about at the end of their useful life. It would be nice to to get the Valhalla up and running for the simple reason that it is always handy to have a spare amp around the house, especially one as capable as the Valhalla. Having said that I could probably be persuaded to let it go for the right offer ;)
The Grand Wazoo
08-08-2013, 22:50
The Quad/Harbeth match is a good one Tim. My preference would be to add an active pre-amp, but I know you're looking for the minimum solution, so good luck!
The Quad/Harbeth match is a good one Tim. My preference would be to add an active pre-amp, but I know you're looking for the minimum solution, so good luck!
I haven't ruled that out Chris, but I want it to be minimalist if I can get away with it - if it really needs one, then I'll probably go for an original and mint 34. But I may not like it yet, if so then its back to the Rega, but I know for sure I'm not going to lose any money as it really is a peach and has clearly been loved by its previous owner :)
It is indeed a great place to be Dave, now you can explore the wonderful world of music and not view it as a test signal like some people seem to :lol: I have noticed you have been testing your musical boundaries of late too, good on you ;)
Thanks Tim :) I've an eclectic taste in music but until recently I have not felt comfortable playing some genres of music because the system simply didn't do it justice. Metal has been this systems bugbear in the past however earlier today I was playing Metallica's black album on vinyl and it sounded simply stunning, raw, dynamic and with real clout down in the lower frequencies. If I had hair I would have headbanged until my noggin dropped off... :lol:
Fookin' ada, these new IC's from Reffc are good. Be back with much, more once I have put a few more miles on them. Staggering!!!
As I reported in this thread (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?27079-What-are-the-pitfalls-of-using-long-IC-runs&p=469489#post469489) I ordered some custom made IC's from Paul@Reffc earlier this week and they arrived this morning. By 10am they were installed in the system and I quickly got down to some serious listening. They are an all Furutech affair comprising two 3m lengths of Furutech FP61 75ohm coaxial cable terminated with FP126 RCA connectors. The cables look smart in their red sheathing and are very well constructed. I neglected to take any photos of the IC's as I was keen to install them in the system, I will try to get some pics of them on here by the end of the weekend. How do they sound? Immense!
I have been a proponent of Belkin's PureAV Silver IC's for a few years now and despite all the changes I have made over that period they have stolidly remained a staple part of the system. I have acquired several pairs of Belkins over time and have paid as little as £3.99 for a set with the final pair costing me £9.99. All where bought new. They have been excellent performers and I cannot fault them for the money. They are also well made and look very smart to these tired eyes.
Having written the above I must say I was not at all prepared for the gulf in performance between the Belkin IC's and the Reffc cables. Of course I'd been expecting some improvements as I would not have thrown as much money at them otherwise, however I was expecting subtle differences in certain areas. Perhaps a bit more clarity to the mid-range or a slightly firmer and more extended bottom end, I was not expecting a complete overhaul in performance. Metaphorically speaking it would be like comparing margarine with proper farmhouse butter. Everything has jumped sharply into focus and I do mean everything, the sense of realism and transparency is palpable. In it's current state my system has always thrown out a decent soundstage but now it is akin to the difference between listening to a live recording and actually being there. Anyway it's time to get back to the music, I will report back with any further impressions as they bed in, for now though I am a very happy chappy... :D
Delighted for you Dave! So glad they worked out so well in your system :cool:
Thanks Paul, I take my hat off to you sir. Next in line for replacement will be the cables between the DAC and DR5 as we discussed in PM's, I reckon a short run of 0.5m will do nicely. It has been a wonderful day rediscovering my music collection, in fact I am still listening at low volume now (midnight) which was almost unheard of before. Somehow these IC's bring out the best in my gear regardless of levels, it being almost impossible to listen at low volume with the Belkin's in place. Somehow decent music reproduction evaded them at low volumes resulting in a muddy mess. There might possibly be a technical reason for this (I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain it all) however I care not, it's what is apparent now that ticks all the boxes ;)
From studying Paul's website it would seem that I effectively own a set of his Neptune interconnects and they continue to impress a day into ownership. These fabulous cables continue to ruthlessly reveal the Belkin's shortcomings. It has become apparent to me that upper mids are a little course sounding and higher frequencies suffer a bit from glare with the Belkin's installed. This might explain why a couple of albums I own were almost painful to listen to above the nine o'clock position on the volume control. One of these is Elbow's Build A Rocket Boys, which is now beautifully balanced and dynamic whereas previously certain tracks could sound horribly jarring and 'messy'. To use a well worn cliché (sorry), the Neptunes allow me to hear subtle interplay between instruments with far more clarity. Where it is most apparent is on recordings where percussion is placed deeper in the mix. The Belkin's give a hint that something is going on but ultimately smear the result, for example subtle cymbal play can sound effectively like white noise whilst the best the Belkin's can offer is the tiniest suggestion of metallic shimmer. With the Neptune's installed, and with the requisite experience, it would probably be possible to identify the cymbal manufacturer simply from the tone of the instrument, such is the increased resolution.
All in all this has been an interesting experience for me. Due to my modest income I will always err on the side of a bargain, but just occasionally such an approach can be false economy. Although at the top of my budget, for those who earn a crust which is more in line with the national average the Neptune's offer a taste of the high life for not a lot of dosh. I am very much looking forward to installing a half metre run between the Rega and DR5, in doing so I am hoping the bar will be raised even higher ;)
EDIT: I'm sure the 'Shilling Police' elsewhere on the web will be all over this post like a rash soon enough. All I have to say to them is.... :finger: (I feel so much better now... :D)
I believe I may have reached a point on this journey where, for the very first time, I am completely satisfied with the sound emanating from my system. I have been living with the current setup for a few weeks now and at no point during this period have I felt the need to change a thing. In my opinion this system delivers an honest portrayal of whatever it is fed, no bells or whistles, just honest to goodness musical values. Well produced and recorded material sounds absolutely sublime and yet albums which perhaps are less fortunate in these aspects are still listenable, even enjoyable. I listen to music on Spotify a lot and what is most impressive is that even at these relatively low bit rates music reproduction continues to impress. I have found myself listening to less vinyl of late. The reason? Simply this, digital reproduction is now so close to that from the Techie that I find it far more convenient to use this medium. Could I live without a TT? Probably, if it weren't for the records I inherited from my mother when she passed away. I've not bought any vinyl for a good while now which says a lot. All that remains is for me to acquire another set of Paul Coupe's utterly brilliant Reference IC's to run between the Rega DAC and Classé DR5 and that will probably be about it. So, what of the future? When finances allow I might think about playing around with other speakers however I am in no hurry to do so just now.
In light of the above this may well be the last you hear from me in this thread for a goodly while, so all that remains for me to do is thank those who have shared this journey with me... :thumbsup:
The Grand Wazoo
19-09-2013, 18:23
Great stuff Dave - enjoy it!
It's good when that happens, Dave. Personally, I mix digital with LPs quite happily during my sessions.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/floyd2_01/Pioneer%20PD-S801/pioneerPD-S80131.jpg
I've had a Pioneer PD-S801 Stable Platter CDP in my system for a couple of days which I acquired for a good friend who is taking his first steps into our mad world. It has been quite a revelation. Initially set up feeding my Rega DAC it sounded a wee bit dry and unengaging, which is a little odd as that is not at all the case when using my Arcam CD72 as a transport. However the big surprise came when I hooked the Pioneer up to the DR5 via its analogue outputs. As I mentioned in a post elsewhere on AoS, this CDP has an excellent DAC circuit. There were four of us in my listening room yesterday, myself, my friend and our respective partners, and for over two hours we just sat quietly and listened to music. Now, this is a first as normally when they get together Jo and Karen can sit and natter for Britain. The Pioneer PD-S801 is the complete package, not only does it sound exquisite through it's analogue outputs but it also looks good and is a joy to operate, more so than the Arcam. It exudes an air of solidity which is not quite matched by the CD72, even though the Arcam is quite a bit heavier, and it did look very good sat under the DR5 as they are both housed in chunky, no nonsense cabinets. Aaron took it with him when he left yesterday and I admit I was sorry to see it go...
Yep, I've always liked those Pioneer Stable Platter designs. The 801 was close to the top of the tree, I think. Was there a 901?
Yes there is Martin and if he'd had enough money he could have bought a 901, however it was a good bit above his budget. The 801 is in very good nick and came complete with the original remote, which was a bit of a result. The 801 will be hooked up to a Marantz PM66SE when it arrives next Saturday which is also in very good condition. A decent CDP and amp for under a hundred quid, who da thunk it? ;)
The Marantz PM66SE I mentioned in my previous post arrived on Friday morning and has been sat in my system on test for a couple of days whilst waiting to be picked up by its new owner. It is in perfect working order and in as new condition . It even arrived with its remote control (unlike the one I bought from Dixons many years ago), a nice find for just under fifty quid. My friends system is now complete and he is very happy with it. Thanks to everyone concerned for their good advice and help :)
http://www.grandearmadio.com/negozio/images/114994_lettore_technics_1_01.jpghttp://www.hi-fi.ru/upload/iblock/287/287badc661c116c01349d6ec24593926.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODI3WDEwMDA=/z/LAYAAOxyoA1RM09Z/$T2eC16J,!)QE9s3HEEghBRM09YQe0g~~60_35.JPG
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll274/thanhtung13188/vnav%203/EltaxLiberty3-09.jpg
As alluded to above, I have owned one of these units myself in the past. My system at the time consisted of the PM66SE, a Technics SL-PG380A cdp, Grundig MD50 MiniDisk player/recorder and a pair of Eltax Liberty 3+ speakers (much underrated speakers IMHO which are very well constructed from good materials plus they look very cool too). The weak link in this system was the CD player but it was all I could afford at the time. It had a thin and weedy sound which lacked in bass heft. Ripping CD's to Mini Disk via an optical cable revealed that the fault lay with the DAC circuitry as playback of recordings made on the MD50 were full bodied and dynamic. I liked the Marantz a lot as it really brought the Eltax's to life.
In my current system I am struck by how well the PM66 digs out detail from recordings, which is impressive for an amp which was designed to sell at the budget end of the scale. There is a caveat though, it does lack warmth in its presentation which can make some material sound a little harsh and clinical to my ears. This was particularly apparent when I put on One Day I'll Fly Away by Randy Crawford. With the DR5 and 306 in situ Randy's voice sounds powerful and full of emotion, conveying the lyrics to full effect. With the PM66 in place her voice took on a strident quality which frankly was difficult to stomach. Moving on to Norah Jones' seminal album, Come Away With Me, Norah had completely lost that breathy and sexy edge to her voice, as a result I failed to engage with the album at all, a first for me. However it is not all bad news. Play something with a driving beat and the Marantz really comes into its own. Mezzanine by Massive Attack went on next and suddenly all was right with the world again. The Marantz exerts a vice like grip on the lower registers and man does it go down low. In this respect it betters my Quad 306/Classé DR5 combo, although not by much. I found basslines played via the PM66 to be a little more tuneful too, which was a pleasant surprise. I originally set out to play just one track from this album (Angel), however I ended up tapping my foot through the entire album as it happens. Imaging is good too although not quite on a par with what I am used to. The Marantz also throws out a very convincing soundstage with plenty of width, height and depth apparent, which is pretty staggering for a budget integrated amp.
In conclusion, f I were forced to give up the DR5 and Quad 306 for any reason I could live with the Marantz PM66SE, despite it's shortcomings... ;)
Some nice finds there David and I like the 66SE. For similar money and of similar vintage, one amp also worthy of consideration is the Denon PMA350UK...very high build and component quality and decent sound, complete with remote volume too. I picked one up for a friend a while back and could have definitely lived with it.
Some nice finds there David and I like the 66SE. For similar money and of similar vintage, one amp also worthy of consideration is the Denon PMA350UK...very high build and component quality and decent sound, complete with remote volume too. I picked one up for a friend a while back and could have definitely lived with it.
Funny you should mention the Denon Paul as several other members recommended it too, however I just couldn't find one within his budget, which was very tight at 50 quid. No matter though as he is very happy with the Marantz. It is driving a pair of KEF Q35.2's which I used to own. They have a smooth mid-range and are slightly rolled off at the top end therefore they should suit the sonic characteristics of the Marantz rather well. I have supplied him with various IC's I no longer require (a couple of pairs of Belkin PureAV Silver's and a set of NVA Soundpipes) and also the Belkin speaker cables which used to sit in my system. It must be a significant improvement over what he had before as even his good lady has mentioned how much better the system is performing, and she has no interest in hifi equipment at all :)
In one of my previous posts I hinted that if there were to be any major changes to my system then it would most probably be in the speaker department. An opportunity presented itself rather sooner than I anticipated, like today, so barring the destruction of the Earth by some major disaster I should soon be the proud and rather excited owner of a pair of Celestion Ditton 44's. More details to follow soon :D
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/CelestionDitton44s.jpg (http://s1019.photobucket.com/user/Sgtgrash/media/Hifi%20Stuff/CelestionDitton44s.jpg.html)http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/CelestionDitton44swithgrills.jpg (http://s1019.photobucket.com/user/Sgtgrash/media/Hifi%20Stuff/CelestionDitton44swithgrills.jpg.html)
Very nice, Dave. Are those the ones? They look to be in good condition.
These are they Martin. I am buying them from James (istari kinght) who has completely re-fettled the crossovers, rewired them internally and fitted new Seas 19TFF1 tweeters as one of the original HF2000's had gone open circuit. Here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?28263-Celestion-Ditton-44-Refurb-Tweeter-repair-Cab-Resto-etc&highlight=ditton+44%27s) is a link to James' refurb thread ;)
I missed that thread! Good purchase, Dave, and nice refurb there, James.
istari_knight
23-10-2013, 12:36
They are rather good :eyebrows:
Clive197
23-10-2013, 14:07
Are we related? :) They are my two favourite planes as well, along with the Yankee P38 Lightning. Regarding the Spitfire, I have always preferred the Griffon engined kites to the Merlin examples. I'm particularly fond of the rare Spit with contra-rotating propellers (I forget which model number it is) ;)
Spitfire MK.XIX Seafire
Nice one, Dave. You got there in the end, so welcome to the Celestion club! :respect:
Marco.
Thanks Marco. I'm like a kid in a sweet shop, can't wait until they arrive... hehe
The Ditton 44's are here and they arrived very well packaged, respect James :respect:
Early doors yet but I will say they offer a very different presentation to the DM2's. I'm going to take some time to acclimatise to them before writing an appraisal though ;)
istari_knight
31-10-2013, 13:19
I'm glad they arrived OK :)
The test will be to listen to the 44's for a couple of days & then switch back to the DM2's... http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/nailbite_zps3665188c.gifstuff !
Indeed James, that is exactly what I am going to do ;)
Canetoad
31-10-2013, 15:30
Hope you enjoy them Dave. I'm listening to mine at this very minute in my second system. :)
walpurgis
31-10-2013, 19:30
I'll be interested in your conclusions Dave! Hope you like them.
I expect you know, but use them about a foot to eighteen inches off the floor.
I have been listening to the Ditton 44's since lunchtime today so perhaps now would be a good time to record my thoughts.
At around six inches taller, a smidgeon wider, four inches less in depth and also clad in Teak veneer, it is immediately apparent from their styling that both the Ditton 44's and B&W DM2's hail from the same era, the early 1970's. Both are three way designs however the implementation is vastly different. The 44's sport a sealed enclosure whereas the DM2's employ an eighth wave transmission line within their cabinets. The differences don't end there. Contained within the cabinets of the Dittons are a 12" woofer, 5" mid (both utilizing doped paper cones) and a 1" dome tweeter whilst it's counterpart sports an 8" bextrene coned woofer, Celestion HF1300 tweeter and Coles supertweeter. Despite the smaller bass driver their transmission line arrangement enables the DM2's to match the Dittons bass extension pretty much.
After hooking up the Dittons I settled down to listen to a selection of albums I know very well. Right off the bat I noticed a distinct loss of attack compared to what I am used to. The 44's are smooooooth in the extreme. Back in the mix of Pick Me up, track two of Jo Hamiltons excellent album Gown, there is a fair amount of subtle percussion going on. The DM2's render this beautifully and place instruments in a wide open space full of ambience, however this was almost entirely absent through the 44's with only the occasional cymbal strike apparent to remind me that there was something lurking in the background. However even then the cymbals sounded as if they were being struck with a drumstick wrapped in felt. In fact I gave up listening to this album half way through track three as it sounded so dull and lifeless, which is a first.
Meanwhile moving onto Five Leaves Left, Nick Drake seemed to have developed a serious case of nerves and as a consequence had retired behind a pair of heavy duty curtains to sing and play his guitar, perhaps he is shy? Nick's guitar usually sounds so alive and vibrant but not today plus his voice had been robbed of any emotion by the Dittons. Oh dear, this is not what I was expecting at all. As the afternoon drew on it became more and more apparent to me that the Dittons lack resolution compared to the DM2's and I began to mourn the loss of their sparkle and magic. Due to the Dittons monster 12" bass unit I had been expecting a substantial gain in bass extension however this isn't strictly the case. There is a little more activity in the nether regions but not a lot, and what there is is very 'one note'. Whether these issues are due to a lack of synergy with the rest of the system or are a consequence of the inherent characteristics of the speakers themselves, I doubt I will be hanging on to them. This is such a shame as they are magnificent looking speakers, especially with the grills off, and I should add that they are superbly put together.
My humble apologies to James (who has been an absolute pleasure to deal with throughout) and to other Ditton 44 owners out there, I gave it my best shot but the 44's are definitely not for me.... :eyebrows:
istari_knight
31-10-2013, 20:53
Oh bugger, sorry to hear that Dave :( Although your description of them does sound like the "grandads radiogram" sound I got when using them with less than ideal amps... On the 100wpc Jap amp they sounded like completely different speakers...
They do sound completely different to DM2's & if you love what the B&W's do then 44's will never satisfy... Remember when I suggested stacked DM2's as your next system upgrade ? I wasnt joking :)
brian2957
31-10-2013, 20:57
At least you've satisfied your curiosity Dave . I call it ' scratching an itch ' . There's every possibilty that the Dittons will sound superb in another system with another amp. I've never heard them but I firmly believe in synergy . I'm currently using an old pair of Rega EL8s and would really have to think twice about replacing them as I think they fit really well in my system and suit my tastes. The beauty of this forum is that you can try new things relatively cheaply and if they're not for you pass them on for little or no cost.:)
Indeed Brian. I've no doubt these would sound fabulous in the right system, unfortunately they just don't sound right in mine. As you say, I've scratched an itch and I'm sure they will delight once again in a system which suits their character better ;)
walpurgis
31-10-2013, 21:03
I'm not going to do an 'I told you so'. We all get tempted with the idea of a particular item of equipment. I do it myself.
Your resident DM2s will not lack deeper bass in comparison to other speakers with bigger drivers, due to their transmission line loading. Unusually, it uses an 1/8 wavelength line, most are 1/4 wavelength. Consequently the DM2 has an agile bottom end. It was designed to meet the highest monitoring standards of its time, despite being generally for the domestic market. I didn't think the 44s would compete too well.
Never mind Dave. Hope you kept the packing, there's bound to be others on AOS who'll want them.
Back in the mix of Pick Me up, track two of Jo Hamiltons excellent album Gown, there is a fair amount of subtle percussion going on.
You spurred me to put that track on just now. It's certainly a busy, driving, song with lots of percussive detail. Good album all-round.
Oh bugger, sorry to hear that Dave :( Although your description of them does sound like the "grandads radiogram" sound I got when using them with less than ideal amps... On the 100wpc Jap amp they sounded like completely different speakers...
They do sound completely different to DM2's & if you love what the B&W's do then 44's will never satisfy... Remember when I suggested stacked DM2's as your next system upgrade ? I wasnt joking :)
It's okay James. I entered into this with my eyes wide open and Jo and I discussed all possible outcomes before pulling the trigger. We were only ever going to keep the pair which we felt suited our ears best and in this case it just happens to be the DM2's. It's been fun though and I certainly don't regret buying them as I can now say I have owned a pair of Ditton 44's :)
istari_knight
31-10-2013, 21:20
:thumbsup: I've contacted a couple of people that were very interested when I had them for sale so you might have a PM or two heading your way.
As Brian says they are quite popular so I'm sure you'll find a buyer in no time :)
You spurred me to put that track on just now. It's certainly a busy, driving, song with lots of percussive detail. Good album all-round.
My current favourite album Martin. I hear influences from Alanis Morissette and Tori Amos on this album which is cool because I listen to a lot of their material too :)
I have discovered that the 44's do orchestral really rather well, very nice scale and weight available here. Also, I played Alt J's album, An Awesome Wave earlier which seemed to wake them up a bit. Yup, they remain plumbed into the system for the moment ;)
This little experiment has revealed just how good B&W DM2's actually are as the Ditton 44's are no slouches in their own right. My next step will be to sell the 44's and use the cash to fettle the DM2's to improve them even further. If all goes well I hope to end up with a pair of speakers which will see off some highly revered models costing way more ;)
as a matter of interest Dave, are yours the A's or the mark 2's...????
Mine are mk1's grant, basically they are the same as DM2a's but without the pot to adjust tweeter output ;)
cheers, think I know them...the tweeters are in a different position as well I think...always liked B & W stuff from that era.....I was one of the folk after the dittons but alas I have since spent the cash on another Valve Amp that I dont need.....but want.;)
Commonly the tweeter line up is different on the mk1, most being equipped with a standard 1" dome supertweeter sporting a rectangular faceplate (not sure who manufactured it) and an HF1300. Often the HF1300 on these models is square rather than round and the tweeters are mounted adjacent to each other and in a horizontal arrangement. Mine on the other hand have the more familiar drivers from the DM2a and are arranged in the same way. I am beginning to think the pair I own may be rather rare ;)
always nice to have a rarity, especially if is sounds great, and they must to have bested the dittons.....must admit my quads have never sounded better.
thanks again for the useful info.
The Ditton 44's will be leaving me on Sunday. A chap called Chris from PFM is coming over to pick them up around 11am (thanks James :) )
Hi Dave,
Sorry to hear that the 44s didn't work out. No doubt that you've heard what you've heard, however, while reading your description of the sound of the 44s I was sitting here thinking how diametrically opposed they are to my 15XRs and 66s, which if they sounded as you've described with the 44s, would be in the fooking bin!! :D
Therefore, I can only draw four possible conclusions:
1) The 44s are voiced very differently from 15XRs and 66s (or at least the versions I own).
2) 44s just don't suit your system (i.e. lack of synergy).
3) You just don't like how they sound, period - and that would likely be the case no matter what system they were in.
4) The 44s you've got are broken.
Anyway, not to worry. At least you tried them and can add the experience to all the others you've had in hi-fi - and learn from it :)
Marco.
Hi Dave,
Sorry to hear that the 44s didn't work out. No doubt that you've heard what you've heard, however, while reading your description of the sound of the 44s I was sitting here thinking how diametrically opposed they are to my 15XRs and 66s, which if they sounded as you've described with the 44s, would be in the fooking bin!! :D
Therefore, I can only draw four possible conclusions:
1) The 44s are voiced very differently from 15XRs and 66s (or at least the versions I own).
2) 44s just don't suit your system (i.e. lack of synergy).
3) You just don't like how they sound, period - and that would likely be the case no matter what system they were in.
4) The 44s you've got are broken.
Anyway, not to worry. At least you tried them and can add the experience to all the others you've had in hi-fi - and learn from it :)
Marco.
I must say I was surprised too Marco. The County's I owned employed the same tweeter and woofer as the 15xr and apart from being a little bass shy in comparison with the DM2's (smaller cabs) they were beautifully balanced and dynamic so that was pretty much what I was expecting from the 44's and then some. I suppose the best way to describe what I'm hearing is thus: It's like listening to music with the treble control turned right down.
istari_knight
02-11-2013, 12:42
Hi Dave,
Sorry to hear that the 44s didn't work out. No doubt that you've heard what you've heard, however, while reading your description of the sound of the 44s I was sitting here thinking how diametrically opposed they are to my 15XRs and 66s, which if they sounded as you've described with the 44s, would be in the fooking bin!! :D
Therefore, I can only draw four possible conclusions:
1) The 44s are voiced very differently from 15XRs and 66s (or at least the versions I own).
2) 44s just don't suit your system (i.e. lack of synergy).
3) You just don't like how they sound, period - and that would likely be the case no matter what system they were in.
4) The 44s you've got are broken.
Anyway, not to worry. At least you tried them and can add the experience to all the others you've had in hi-fi - and learn from it :)
Marco.
:rfl:
Different people like different things mate, I recall we came to the same conclusion over the 15's I thought were rubbish ? I have since tried another pair & they sounded equally shite as the first pair [to me.] I liked the 44's... But you would have them in the bin... Horses for courses innit :D
Is there definitely out put coming from the tweeters? As they have been replaced is it possible they have become disconnected in transit? I wouldn't describe the 44 as bright sounding but mine had plenty of top end and didn't mask subtle percussion.
Otherwise the only thing I can think of is that you are used to your DM2 with its double tweeters, in which case you might find quite a lot of other speakers, particularly vintage models, sound dull in comparison.
istari_knight
02-11-2013, 12:54
I had a pair of DM4's here at the same time as the 44's & the top end is much brighter on the DM4's with the HF1300/Coles 4001. IMO DM2/DM4 could be taken for a modern speaker if heard unsighted. The same cannot be said for many of their contemporaries.
I suppose the best way to describe what I'm hearing is thus: It's like listening to music with the treble control turned right down.
That's really weird... The 15XRs and 66s (within their relevant classes) are amongst the most crystal clear, finely detailed and vivid sounding, musically infectious speakers I've heard. Quite simply, I couldn't live with them otherwise.
From your description above, I strongly suspect that something is amiss (possibly a component, or components, in the crossover section having done down), as regardless of their musical abilities, or otherwise to your ears, the treble should not be as rolled off as you describe. To me, that sounds like a distinct technical fault.
It would be interesting to hear from long-term 44 users and whether or not they can relate to your comments in reference to treble output. If so, one wonders how the speakers achieved desirable status in some quarters in the first place...? :scratch:
Marco.
Is there definitely out put coming from the tweeters? As they have been replaced is it possible they have become disconnected in transit? I wouldn't describe the 44 as bright sounding but mine had plenty of top end and didn't mask subtle percussion.
Otherwise the only thing I can think of is that you are used to your DM2 with its double tweeters, in which case you might find quite a lot of other speakers, particularly vintage models, sound dull in comparison.
The tweeters are working fine Martin I think it's just a presentation thing. As I mentioned in my reply to Marco, the County's had a single tweeter too and I didn't find them lacking, in fact the HF1000 is a lovely sounding unit which I must say I preferred over those in the DM2 which on certain material can occasionally sound a little forced in comparison, which is why I took a punt on the 44's. No harm done though, it's all a learning curve ;)
:rfl:
Different people like different things mate, I recall we came to the same conclusion over the 15's I thought were rubbish ? I have since tried another pair & they sounded equally shite as the first pair [to me.] I liked the 44's... But you would have them in the bin... Horses for courses innit :D
Lol - I'd only put them in the bin if, in my system, they sounded as Dave has described! I'm not sure that would necessarily be the case, mainly because I strongly suspect the ones that Dave has aren't right.
I should stress that I'm not talking here about any subjective like or dislike of the overall sound, but something that may be measurably wrong, technically.
Marco.
Lol - I'd only put them in the bin if, in my system, they sounded as Dave has described! I'm not sure that would necessarily be the case, mainly because I strongly suspect the ones that Dave has aren't right.
Marco.
All my observations are relative to the sound of the DM2's btw, I am not suggesting for one moment they are broken ;)
I'd agree with Marco, something is not right. How fresh is your QUAD 306? Could it be that it needs a recap? The DM2 might be bright enough to mask the dullness that will be otherwise evident if it does need doing.
EDIT - unless the Countys sounded fine with the 306 in which case scratch that idea.
Canetoad
02-11-2013, 13:09
Perhaps if the crossovers were rebuilt they still need more running in. Mine sound fine in my second system.
Perhaps if the crossovers were rebuilt they still need more running in. Mine sound fine in my second system.
And so they should! I would put money on it that they are the mintest pair of 44s in exisitence in the world today. No joke. (I've still not forgiven you for paying with Scottish money, though ;) )
istari_knight
02-11-2013, 13:17
Lol - I'd only put them in the bin if, in my system, they sounded as Dave has described! I'm not sure that would necessarily be the case, mainly because I strongly suspect the ones that Dave has aren't right.
I should stress that I'm not talking here about any subjective like or dislike of the overall sound, but something that may be measurably wrong, technically.
Marco.
Okey dokey :thumbsup: Its came across as something must be broken because it doesnt match my subjective preference :lol:
... What can I say ? They sounded fine to me, the new tweeters sound identical to the old in quality & output. I did find them to be very amp sensitive sounding like "grandads radiogram on steriods" when connected to a Quad 303 & even my Naim clone but when connected to a Kenwood KA-7090R or Sony TA-FB940R they sprung into action and sounded bloody good :scratch:
I'd agree with Marco, something is not right. How fresh is your QUAD 306? Could it be that it needs a recap? The DM2 might be bright enough to mask the dullness that will be otherwise evident if it does need doing.
EDIT - unless the Countys sounded fine with the 306 in which case scratch that idea.
The 306 is as fresh as a daisy, it was recapped late last year and it did indeed sound good driving the County's ;)
I really do think this is down to the character of the 44's, room acoustics and my own preferences. The DM2's aren't perfect (is any speaker for that matter?) but what they do sounds mighty fine to me. One factor which may be worth considering is that this is a busy room with lots of soft furnishings (it's our bedroom actually), so this may be having an impact. From Marco's description of the 15xr's presentation and my own experience with the County's, it is entirely possible that the room furnishings attenuate high frequency information to the point where lively speakers sound about right and those with a smoother response lose a bit of bite.
James, your inbox is full ;)
istari_knight
02-11-2013, 13:44
James, your inbox is full ;)
Shocking how quick it fills up ! Emptied now :)
Canetoad
02-11-2013, 18:16
And so they should! I would put money on it that they are the mintest pair of 44s in exisitence in the world today. No joke. (I've still not forgiven you for paying with Scottish money, though ;) )
Next time I'll make sure I'm over the border before I go to a hole in the wall for the cash Martin. ;)
istari_knight
03-11-2013, 16:48
Well I've heard from the new owner, Chris had the following to say "Just thought i would let you know i have the dittons at home. No issue with the tweeters mate infact they sound nicely balanced a very pleasant listen . I would say i have them in a room that is 8m by near on 7m as opposed to David's limited space so perhaps that was the problem or as you said he likes more modern speakers."
... Broken ? My arse :rolleyes:
At least you got to have a play with them eh Dave ? :)
Yup, with speakers, system synergy/room compatability is all! :)
Marco.
Nice chap Chris and he was stoked that the 44's were in such good condition. He was pushed for time so I took the Ditton's, my Arcam CD72 and Mini-T downstairs and set it all up in the kitchen so it was easy for him to get them out quick and into his car once I'd demo'd them (we live in a three story town house where the kitchen and garage space occupy the ground floor). I have to say I am impressed with the efficiency of the 44's, the Mini-T drove them beautifully and they were belting out Zero 7 at very impressive levels with the volume control at the 12 o'clock position. Even in the kitchen with all it's hard surfaces and with a different amp driving them I still wasn't happy with the top end, sorry James. They are just far too laid back for my liking, something I have not found to be the case with other Celestions of this vintage. It is very nice to have the DM2's back in the system :)
walpurgis
03-11-2013, 19:06
[QUOTE=istari_knight;497144 he likes more modern speakers.[/QUOTE]
DM2s, more modern?
DM2s, more modern?
1972 vintage and the County's were manufactured in 1978 IIRC. I liked those too ;)
Hm I'm wondering if 44s sound more like 25s than they do 66s. Because the 25 isn't the most dynamic and lively speaker, especially at HF. The 25s I knew did sound bloody good, though. Deep extended bass and warm sound. Too warm for some, I'd say.
Who knows, these are OLD speakers now. It will be hard to know what has actually happened to some of them over time. Opinions will always be warped because of this - it being 2013 and all.
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