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Thread: Return to Nirvana.

  1. #1
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,026
    I'm Confused.

    Question Return to Nirvana.

    Hi Guys,
    If I'm being a PITA by returning to this subject so quickly then I'm sure the Mods will so advise me and remove the post. I am in no way being divisive but I do plead guilty to trying to provoke another discussion around the (vain) pursuit of audio Nirvana (as it is generally understood, rather than Varun's technically correct translation - nobody's looking for extinction ).
    I have been giving this subject a bit of further thought since I last raised it and I'd like to present another 'slant' on my opinion. We are all aware of how powerful the human brain is at convincing/persuading us that black is white, up is down and right is wrong if we are at all predisposed to believe it - witness the rise of the Nazis in the 30s and early 40s, but not all Germans were inhuman bastards, they just got caught up in the mass hysteria, if everybody else believes it it must be true, sort of thing.
    A few examples from my own experience: -
    1) I am told that the human eye actually sees things upside down rather than as they really are and the brain makes us 'see' the scene as it really is.
    2) When I was very young and lived at home I grew up with a large clock on the wall with a pendulum - clockwork and needed winding every few days - step-father's pride and joy - visitors to the house would often comment on how did we put up with the extremely loud 'tick-tock' of this clock. The answer was that we never heard it, we were so used to it our brains permanently and automatically filtered out the continual noise and we all had to concentrate on it to hear it, and it was indeed loud, but a few seconds later it had 'disappeared' again.
    3) From the age of 11 to leaving home at 26 to get married I was continually needing to do homework. Unfortunately, with only one room downstairs, other than an unheated kitchen, and a deaf step-father, there was no escaping to any quiet room in the house. Because of prolonged periods of trying to concentrate in this atmosphere I subconciously developed the ability to 'shut out' all extraneous noise and focus on what I was doing. This became automatic and continued throughout my working life, such that, in a crowded noisy and open office, I could shut everything else out and concentrate on what I was supposed to be doing - embarrassing when the boss comes in and calls your name to attend a meeting .
    So to audio matters.
    We add something to our system and listen. If it is worse we remove it and resort to as it was. However if it is not worse, but different or better, we leave it in place and continue listening to it. After a while it becomes the norm and we forget what it sounded like previously. The process is then repeated the next time we add something, ad infinitum in many cases. IMHO many of these additions must be merely change, rather than improvement. It just is not possible to keep adding improvement on improvement ad infinitum. Some will be genuine improvements I have no doubt, but, I respectfully suggest, not as many as we would like to believe.
    Our brains are continually kidding us - discuss.
    DaveK.

    My System:
    Power: Belkin PF40, Custom.hifi.cables Hydra and DC PSUs.
    Sources: Self built HTPC with Xonar ST sound card, NAD T585 multi disc player, Sony BDP-S350, Squeezebox Touch, Techncs SL1210 (mod'd) + Nagaoka MP30, Thomson Sky HD box.
    Amps etc.: 2 x Mini-T amps, MF-X10D Valve buffer clone, StanDAC 7520/Caiman (mod'd).
    Speakers: Mission 774s with added super tweeters
    Cables: best I can afford and likely to change except Homar's RF attenuated co-ax's and Mark Grant USB and HDMI cables. I also like silver i/cs and speaker cable.

  2. #2
    Alex_UK's Avatar
    Alex_UK is offline Spotify + Facebook Moderator / Chilled-Out Wino and only here for the shilling
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Sunny Suffolk, UK

    Posts: 15,952
    I'm WrappingALilacCurtainAroundMyBobby.

    Default

    Hi Dave, broadly, I'd agree with you - an upgrade isn't always an improvement, but sometimes just a change. I have to be honest (maybe I need my ears testing!) but with some changes I struggle know if there is in fact a change, or if there is, if it is an improvement - I probably need educating in "how" to listen (in all seriousness!)

    As has been mentioned before, though, I think the natural inclination of the human being is to assume that the "upgrade" is indeed just that, and not a step backwards - I think it is very hard to admit (to yourself as much as to anyone else) that the carefully planned and researched (maybe expensive?) "improvement" actually isn't...
    Last edited by Alex_UK; 10-09-2009 at 21:53.
    Alex

    Main System: Digital: HP Laptop/M2Tech Hiface/Logitech Media Server/FLAC; Marantz SA7001 KI Signature SACD Player and other digital stuff into Gatorised Beresford Caiman DAC Vinyl: Garrard 401/SME 3009 SII Improved/Sumiko HS/Nagaoka MP-30
    Amplifier: Rega Brio R. Speakers: Spendor SP1. Cables: Various, mainly Mark Grant.
    Please see "about me" for the rest of my cr@p! Gallery


    A.o.S. on Facebook - A.o.S. on Spotify - A.o.S. on Twitter

    There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing Aristotle

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Central England

    Posts: 2,932

    Default

    A genuine upgrade is something that reveals more information on the recording or makes the information work together more cohesively. The novelty of the extra detail does wear off though after a while and yes we do filter out sounds we don't need to hear.

    If you have a fairly revealing system it should still surprise you when you listen to it again after a few days away on holiday.

    Also, really musical systems make you want to listen to music more for longer periods of time, more frequently and to a wider range of genres even when the novelty wears off.

    Good OP not withstanding silly nonsense about Mods and deletions when you have clearly raised entirely new and very valid points.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,026
    I'm Confused.

    Default

    Good Morning Steve,
    I received an e-mail notification that you had replied to this thread, so I read it with great interest.

    I now eagerly await your reply on this fascinating topic

    steve
    DaveK.

    My System:
    Power: Belkin PF40, Custom.hifi.cables Hydra and DC PSUs.
    Sources: Self built HTPC with Xonar ST sound card, NAD T585 multi disc player, Sony BDP-S350, Squeezebox Touch, Techncs SL1210 (mod'd) + Nagaoka MP30, Thomson Sky HD box.
    Amps etc.: 2 x Mini-T amps, MF-X10D Valve buffer clone, StanDAC 7520/Caiman (mod'd).
    Speakers: Mission 774s with added super tweeters
    Cables: best I can afford and likely to change except Homar's RF attenuated co-ax's and Mark Grant USB and HDMI cables. I also like silver i/cs and speaker cable.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    I think you guys are having a little communication problem

    I can tell, Dave, from what you wrote in your opening post that you didn't mean what Steve has construed; similarly I can tell that Steve didn't mean what you've construed from his reply...

    Fun this Internet malarkey, innit?

    Seriously though, I think both of you are being overly defensive of each other, given the nature of past exchanges, and are reading into intent that doesn't exist. I'm sure this will only improve though when you get to know each other better.

    Anyway, can we please move on? Dave, if you could do so by answering the hi-fi-related points Steve raised in his reply (if you feel it necessary to do so), that would be much appreciated

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #6
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Dave, have you edited your last reply to Steve?

    My post above now makes no sense.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #7
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,026
    I'm Confused.

    Default Censorship problem.

    Hi Marco,
    I must say that I take exception to your censoring of my post without also censoring the objectionable post by Steve which prompted it. . Sauce and Ganders spring to mind.
    Which hi-fi related points raised by Steve do you feel I might respond to 'cos I don't see any.
    Cheers,
    DaveK.

    My System:
    Power: Belkin PF40, Custom.hifi.cables Hydra and DC PSUs.
    Sources: Self built HTPC with Xonar ST sound card, NAD T585 multi disc player, Sony BDP-S350, Squeezebox Touch, Techncs SL1210 (mod'd) + Nagaoka MP30, Thomson Sky HD box.
    Amps etc.: 2 x Mini-T amps, MF-X10D Valve buffer clone, StanDAC 7520/Caiman (mod'd).
    Speakers: Mission 774s with added super tweeters
    Cables: best I can afford and likely to change except Homar's RF attenuated co-ax's and Mark Grant USB and HDMI cables. I also like silver i/cs and speaker cable.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Dave,

    I haven't censored or deleted anything!!

    I was asking you if you'd deleted it...

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #9
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,026
    I'm Confused.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Dave, have you edited your last reply to Steve?

    My post above now makes no sense.

    Marco.
    Nope - just seen your quoted post above - must be Steve - therefore my remarks to you are unreservedly withdrawn and re-addressed to Steve.

    To Steve all I can say is that your actions only confirm my current opinions.
    Regards,
    DaveK.

    My System:
    Power: Belkin PF40, Custom.hifi.cables Hydra and DC PSUs.
    Sources: Self built HTPC with Xonar ST sound card, NAD T585 multi disc player, Sony BDP-S350, Squeezebox Touch, Techncs SL1210 (mod'd) + Nagaoka MP30, Thomson Sky HD box.
    Amps etc.: 2 x Mini-T amps, MF-X10D Valve buffer clone, StanDAC 7520/Caiman (mod'd).
    Speakers: Mission 774s with added super tweeters
    Cables: best I can afford and likely to change except Homar's RF attenuated co-ax's and Mark Grant USB and HDMI cables. I also like silver i/cs and speaker cable.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,026
    I'm Confused.

    Default

    Marco/Steve,
    Going out now for a few hours - not ducking out - not my style - but won't be able to get involved again until mid afternoon - enjoy the silence.
    Regards,
    DaveK.

    My System:
    Power: Belkin PF40, Custom.hifi.cables Hydra and DC PSUs.
    Sources: Self built HTPC with Xonar ST sound card, NAD T585 multi disc player, Sony BDP-S350, Squeezebox Touch, Techncs SL1210 (mod'd) + Nagaoka MP30, Thomson Sky HD box.
    Amps etc.: 2 x Mini-T amps, MF-X10D Valve buffer clone, StanDAC 7520/Caiman (mod'd).
    Speakers: Mission 774s with added super tweeters
    Cables: best I can afford and likely to change except Homar's RF attenuated co-ax's and Mark Grant USB and HDMI cables. I also like silver i/cs and speaker cable.

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