HS2 watch and weep

[Macca]

Only if costs are more or less constant. Unlikely given high costs of borrowing and rising costs of construction materials.

Yes I suppose the cost could - I mean will - keep going up. But they've started so they'll finish. Eventually.

Leave the thing half done and abandoned and you start to look like one of those Commie loser countries...

[Sherwood]

Most other countries put us to shame when it comes to infrastructure. Just look at how quickly China constructed new hospitals during COVID. More recently, look how quickly the US repaired the collapsed freeway section.

Part of the problem is NIMBYism and local opposition to new builds. More fundamental is the lack of vision on the part of politicians. Most economists would acknowledge the growth benefits of infrastructure development, especially during economic downturns. Look at the transformational effects of infrastructure in 1930s America under FDR.

[Macca]

Totally agree re the economic benefits but it has to be taken into account that UK is a much smaller country. There are fair few infrastructure projects on the go. Crossrail for example was pretty ambitious, and there's been a number of new bridge projects completed in past few years.

It's not remotely on the same scale as what they are doing in China or what they did in the USA from the 1930s to 1960s, but this isn't China or America.

I don't blame people for not wanting a motorway or a railway running along the back of their house where there's fields or woodland now.

I'm not much for the whole 'Making a personal sacrifice for the greater good' thing, so I'm not going to criticise anyone for being a Nimby.

[struth]

using public money to help the rich get richer while putting all the mess on someone elses doorstep, and we are fed up of it. like onshore windfarms in england... no no not here.. our green and pleasent land etc. dump it in wales or scotland etc

[Macca]

There's no windmills at all round here even though it's very rare that the wind is not blowing quite aggressively.

I think the Scottish ones are all a result of the National-Socialist government there and not because we don't want them here. Although we don't of course.

[Sherwood]

Scale is not really an issue. Yes China and the USA are bigger countries with larger populations but that just means that they have greater infrastructure needs. The problem is the national mindset. Most of our sewage infrastructure is over a century old and it shows. My area is vulnerable to surface flooding due to the limited capacity of the drains.

There are strict controls over building zones, with adequate protection for green belt and protected environmental areas.

A visionary leader should be looking at building whole new towns outside of London and the South East.

[struth]

its not a national socialist govt tbh.. far from it.. you need to dig much deeper to see its just a gov of good intentions, often gone wrong, run by people who have little ability, and who have also gone wrong. it was supposed to be government of the people, by the people, for the people, but as is case if you have poor politicians, you see it become government of our people, by our people, for us, and hopefully we shall not perish from the earth” .

[Macca]

Not sure the 'National Mindset' is opposed to sorting out the drains, but in terms of covering green belt with new towns I agree it is totally opposed and I don't blame it.

Personally I'd rather they built on all the brownfield sites. I know that's not often financially viable as everyone with money to buy wants to live in the countryside, or at least 'semi-rural', but if everyone did there'd be no countryside and everyone loses.

'Visionary Leaders' scare the crap out of me. There's something about both words I don't like. I'd settle for competent, cost effective administration. But we won't get that either.

[Macca]

its not a national socialist govt tbh.. far from it.. you need to dig much deeper to see its just a gov of good intentions, often gone wrong, run by people who have little ability, and who have also gone wrong. it was supposed to be government of the people, by the people, for the people, but as is case if you have poor politicians, you see it become government of our people, by our people, for us, and hopefully we shall not perish from the earth” .

Well, they are self-professed nationalists and socialists so I'd say if the cap fits...it's funny more than anything really.

What was the road to hell paved with again?

[Pigmy Pony]

Scale is not really an issue. Yes China and the USA are bigger countries with larger populations but that just means that they have greater infrastructure needs. The problem is the national mindset. Most of our sewage infrastructure is over a century old and it shows. My area is vulnerable to surface flooding due to the limited capacity of the drains.

There are strict controls over building zones, with adequate protection for green belt and protected environmental areas.

A visionary leader should be looking at building whole new towns outside of London and the South East.

I doubt the national mindset would be opposed to having improved sewers. i don't ever recall seeing protesters taking to the streets with banners saying "Leave our sewers alone" or "Floods are Good".

On the subject of floods - the last thing we need is to be building more towns, thereby further reducing natural drainage.

Thousands of acres of former Green Belt land north of Preston is now covered in new-builds. Your average buyer then finds that because all these houses are crammed together there isn't room for his car, his wife's, and his two teenage kids' cars. and there's no room in the garage because it's filled with mountain bikes and golf clubs. So he has half of his bit of natural drainage (the front garden) paved over. Then one morning he wakes to find his downstairs under six inches of water. Of course he blames it on climate change, which can't be his fault because he just bought a Tesla.