How to Connect an External Dc Supply to the SL-1200/1210

[MartinT]

There is a mild performance benefit, but this is dependent on how well resolving your system is. For completeness and the best possible performance, I would make the change to the bottom-left PCB corner.

[sonddek]

A little update on removing the power supply:

When I first installed my Timestep PSU I noticed an apparent increase in clarity, separation and smoothness of tone. A less congested sound if you like. It wasn't an enormous change, but it was a worthwhile one.

Subsequently I have heard people doubting that this improvement occurs. I have also heard it suggested that any improvement simply arises from removing the power supply.

Tonight I did an A/B comparison switching between stock Techie and DACMagic. Then I removed the power supply and put it in a separate box, and carried out the same A/B with the DACMagic.

The result, to my ears, was that while the stock Techie had sounded a bit congested with poor separation and stereo imaging, and a bit shrill compared to the DACMagic, after the power supply removal the Techie did better, in the same sort of way I had noticed with my original installation of the Timestep PSU.

In brief, now that I've done something resembling a real A/B comparison, I'm leaning towards the view that removing the power supply really does improve the deck, and I think it's not impossible that the lion's share, or even all of the improvement that people hear with custom power supplies is down to this step, rather than the power supply itself.

I'm not saying fancy expensive power supplies offer no improvement; I don't know the answer to that, and I need to do some more real A/B comparisons before I form a view. I'm just saying that I'm now pretty sure that you can have a significant part of that upgrade more or less for free, by just removing the transformer.

[chris@panteg]

Hi Richrad

This is more or less what Richard (vantage audio) has been telling me ! And in fact the OEM psu components are actually of a very high quality , the internal regulator is also no where near as bad as some think , removing the psu to a separate box is where to start.


The more i learn about this deck , the more respect i have for the original design .

[Marco]

Hi Richard,

Nice one, and thanks for taking the time to post your findings, which I actually agree with

Having that big lump of iron sat underneath the platter is a sonic no-no! And yes, the stock PSU is probably pretty good. I wouldn't have expected the Matsushita engineers to have fitted crap.

However, where you really start to hear the differences quality off-board PSUs make is when you compare different ones against each other....

I've compared the stock Timestep PSU to the Paul Hynes SR3 and SR5, and also the SR3 to the SR5, and the differences aren't subtle!

The SR3 makes the stock Timestep PSU sound broken (I can go into more detail on this if you wish) and the SR5 simply annihilates it. There is also a marked difference between the SR3 and SR5.

Therefore simply by experimenting, there are undoubtedly improvements to be had in that area.

Of course, I haven't compared any of the above to the stock Techincs PSU, fitted into an external box. However, as good as it is, I'd expect something like the SR5 to comfortably outperform it, albeit at some cost.

It would certainly be an interesting comparison to carry out sometime. If you're coming to the Scalford Hall show, maybe bring your PSU with you and we can try swapping them on my T/T to see what happens?

Marco.

[sonddek]

It would certainly be an interesting comparison to carry out sometime. If you're coming to the Scalford Hall show, maybe bring your PSU with you and we can try swapping them on my T/T to see what happens?

Probably won't make it to Scalford I'm afraid. Swapping them is a five minute job as making the stock PS into a satellite means keeping the regulator in circuit, so it's definitely not a question of just swapping power supplies on the same cable. I'm sure you knew that.

I agree with the comments that you need to live with a change for a while to really know if it's working for you. We are talking about subtle differences in presentation here, despite what everyone says. Even if you have three decks side by side for comparison, variation between setups and cartridges of the same model can lead you astray. It's very hard to apply proper scientific method to these issues.

My Mike New bearing is installed and I'm running it in with a nice bit of Elgar at the moment. This one fits perfectly, unlike the one I bought from DC in the summer and had to return. I don't want to share my initial impressions as running in seems to be important.

[JazzBones]

Probably won't make it to Scalford I'm afraid. Swapping them is a five minute job as making the stock PS into a satellite means keeping the regulator in circuit, so it's definitely not a question of just swapping power supplies on the same cable. I'm sure you knew that.

I agree with the comments that you need to live with a change for a while to really know if it's working for you. We are talking about subtle differences in presentation here, despite what everyone says. Even if you have three decks side by side for comparison, variation between setups and cartridges of the same model can lead you astray. It's very hard to apply proper scientific method to these issues.

My Mike New bearing is installed and I'm running it in with a nice bit of Elgar at the moment. summer and had to return.This one fits perfectly, unlike the one I bought from DC in the I don't want to share my initial impressions as running in seems to be important.

Hi Richard, I bought my Mike New bearing from Dave Cawley when he loved it and said it was worthy of a £10K turntable. At the time of the MN/DC fall out, well documented here in AoS I kept my MN bearing (sold by DC remember) when others where being scared shitless into getting rid of theirs. I also posted on AoS that my MN bearing, insitu, had nearly ten days of non stop running in at both 33 and 45 rpm mode... I was trying to see if there was a fault, under load, (no there wasn't!) and test to distruction!!! I'm still using this very same bearing today with absolutely no probs whatsoever... one of my better buys in audio related matters. Apparently, the bearing was reported not to be happy in hot climes, huh ? but I had no intentions of using my vinyl on the salt flats of Ethiopia

By the way, I'm assuming that you trimmed/snipped off the 18 component wires that poke through the solder side of the pcb board in the area of the circular body of the new bearing housing as these could foul?

You'll get there mate, welcome to the agonies and joy of Tech 1210 enhancement society

Cheers
Ron

[JazzBones]

Hi Richrad

This is more or less what Richard (vantage audio) has been telling me ! And in fact the OEM psu components are actually of a very high quality , the internal regulator is also no where near as bad as some think , removing the psu to a separate box is where to start.


The more i learn about this deck , the more respect i have for the original design .

G'day Chris, Has Richard of Vantage Audio actually lived with a 12XX sampling the various PSUs available, viz: KAB, Timestep standard and HE, Paul Hynes SR3 and SR5, and what others that are available? No way am I having a go at Richard, I don't know him but from reputation I would make use of his experience and service, but a thought does come to my mind that you can only base a finding on actual hands on experience over time. Even a quality pickup cartridge changes from virginal new to better performance over a period of time bedding in (no pun therefore, one must live with a piece of equipment in a known and familiar context for a period of time before arriving at a conclusion which boils down to either (a) Yup, this is good and it stays, or (b) I'm not convinced and its not for me? The Matsushita engineers have produced a marvellous TT as anyone who has delved into its innards will verify so the original PSU will be a good'un whether in situ or satelite. From my personal experience my TS HE PSU has improved my 1210 as has my MN bearing. The 1210 tone arm
is not as bad as its made out to be but could do with a little fettling and it will do until funds permit a premier league arm if so wished. A Jelco 750D is not mind numbing expensive and punches way above its price band.

Hats off to those good bods out there that have taken the 12XX beyond what was conceived by the audiophile 20 or 30 years ago, respect

Ron

[chris@panteg]

G'day Chris, Has Richard of Vantage Audio actually lived with a 12XX sampling the various PSUs available, viz: KAB, Timestep standard and HE, Paul Hynes SR3 and SR5, and what others that are available? No way am I having a go at Richard, I don't know him but from reputation I would make use of his experience and service, but a thought does come to my mind that you can only base a finding on actual hands on experience over time. Even a quality pickup cartridge changes from virginal new to better performance over a period of time bedding in (no pun therefore, one must live with a piece of equipment in a known and familiar context for a period of time before arriving at a conclusion which boils down to either (a) Yup, this is good and it stays, or (b) I'm not convinced and its not for me? The Matsushita engineers have produced a marvellous TT as anyone who has delved into its innards will verify so the original PSU will be a good'un whether in situ or satelite. From my personal experience my TS HE PSU has improved my 1210 as has my MN bearing. The 1210 tone arm
is not as bad as its made out to be but could do with a little fettling and it will do until funds permit a premier league arm if so wished. A Jelco 750D is not mind numbing expensive and punches way above its price band.

Hats off to those good bods out there that have taken the 12XX beyond what was conceived by the audiophile 20 or 30 years ago, respect

Ron

Hi Ron

Well Richard has disclosed to me a huge amount of information on his own work and modifications on the SL1200/1210 series and indeed a fair few other's in the range , he is not saying changing to PH or TS will not be any better than the stock psu ' but by simply and safely ! removing the oem verson you already have a significant upgrade for minimal cost .

As for his own mods for the SL1200 , unless he is being less than truthful, which i doubt very much ! He has quite literally experimented the hell out of this venerable classic DD , several different and varying in mass platter's numerous bearing's and so on , he tells me he has heard some of the alternative aftermaket psu's and bearing's and again why should i doubt him ?

Whenever i ask Richard a straight question , he always comes back to me with a detailed and informative answer , perhaps at times information overload which could confuse a stupid person like me .

I would urge you to email Richard directly and ask him these question's , i'm pretty certain he will reply and its quite refreshing to get a straight answer instead of something vague and ambiguous .

[MartinT]

Richard - keep it spinning at 45 overnight. That seems to do the trick fairly quickly.

[sonddek]

Richard - keep it spinning at 45 overnight. That seems to do the trick fairly quickly.

Have done. Still not out of the woods. Will start to assess after 100 hours.