What't the problem with Linn & Naim..?

[Alex_UK]

Copied from a thread last night, that it would be unfair to hijack - sorry Hamish...

OK, I was going to raise this on another thread, but thought better of it at the time, but it's late and I've poured the 3rd glass... Can someone give a relative newbie a potted history of what the "problem" is with Linn & Naim kit? I'd always thought they were well regarded, but that is probably just a product of the corporate marketing machine - I have no experience of either - but I have definitely picked up on the "negative" vibes on here, whether intended or not... (lights blue touchpaper, and retires... )

I look forward to some interesting opinions (we do allow opinions on here, don't we - unlike some other forums !)

[REM]

[hifi_dave]

Similar questions to this invariably stir up a lot of love V hate and aggression on the forums. Hopefully, not on this relatively peaceful place.

I haven't got a great deal of experience of Linn since they started to major on home cinema and multi-room products. It's not my thing and what I have heard lately really doesn't interest me. Others will disagree.

Naim products sound good to me (others might have different opinions) and are well thought out, well made, reliable, and have the best back-up service. They aren't continually changing the models and their products have good resale value if you want to move on or up. Few other ranges offer these advantages in my experience.

[Spur07]

Alex,

I don't know much about Linn, but all I've ever owned is Naim gear since the early 90's.

As far as I can make out there are a number of reasons why people dislike Naim, all of which are quite understandable imo. Some people would describe the Naim sound as up-front, lean, tight, fast and exciting, with very little colouration - others would describe it as wham, bam, fizz, bang, pop - a sound that may seem exciting at first but ultimately reveals itself to be cold, harsh and fatiguing. Most people who prefer the analogue, warm sound of a valve amp wouldn't be too keen on Naim I'd imagine, (although some people mix and match valve pre-amps with Naim power amps).

The other problem is that many people dislike their business model of encouraging people to participate in the practice of 'upgrading', particularly in relation to the use of add-ons like power supplies, etc. If it needs a PSU to sound better, why not just build it better in the first place, is often the reasoning. They think it leaves people constantly dissatisfied with their equipment, always wanting to change and upgrade, and many people believe this is linked to cold, fatiguing quality of the Naim sound.

And finally, if you were to spend any amount of time on the official Naim forum it may well be enough to put you off Naim for life. People may disagree with me, but it doesn't do the brand any favours imo. For starters, there's just something vaguely fascist and cliquey about it - the complete antithesis to the AOS I might add. Sure there's plenty of decent, helpful people, but then there's the other side - and you don't need to be Sigmund Freud to know exactly what it is about the internet that attracts people like that. I've even seen the moderators post pointless, sarcastic comments in answer to questions from newbies - kind of says it all, really.

[Alex_UK]

Thanks Dave - I have to say I have been thinking recently that given the amount I have spent on kit that has broken in the last 15 years I would be better off biting the bullet and getting something that will hopefully outlast me, which is what Naim stuff always looks like it will! I have to also say that the new Uniti is a very innovative product - and would seriously be something I would consider.

No Experience of Linn really, but the names annoy me - Majik, Akurate - Klimax for god's sake! (I'll say nothing more and leave Marco to come up with the relevant double entendre... )

(Loved your post by the way Ralph! )

[Alex_UK]

Spur07 - thanks for that, a very even-handed summary I think, though of course the business model argument could easily be turned the other way - you can gradually improve the system rather than shell out the extra to start with (where's my hard hat... )

[Spur07]

Alex,

yeah, and that kind of business model is practiced by other companies also. Personally, I think in that regard the criticism is a bit harsh. Check out the DIY section of Pink Fish - Hamish Gil has started a thread about modding his Naim Nap 180 and its caused a bit of a stir, but it provides a lot of useful info for people thinking of getting Naim gear or improving it.

[chrism]

I used to own Naim kit starting with a 42/110 and ending up with a 52/250 set up. I really liked the sound but always felt guilty spending so much on it (spread over a long period though). Really hated the recap costs as well.

So about 4 years ago I decided to try some alternatives and found Avondale in Chesterfield. I started with a Les modded 62/APX4 power supply which sounded just as enjoyable as the 52 so that went first. Next was the 250's as again the A260 just sounded better to me in every way.

My good old CDS1 has now gone as has my preamp as I really like Stan's Caiman and took the opportunity to go to a low cost streaming solution.

The upshot, Naim is really good but now I have a system at less than a quarter of the cost, a tiny number of boxes and a sound that I prefer too. I am now interested in modding which if I had not gone the Avondale / Beresford route I would not have tried.

I think that Naim is a popular route as it is an easy way to build a system. The alternatives do involve a lot of trial and error and a willingness to tweak.

Regards

Chris

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Alex,

yeah, and that kind of business model is practiced by other companies also. Personally, I think in that regard the criticism is a bit harsh. Check out the DIY section of Pink Fish - Hamish Gil has started a thread about modding his Naim Nap 180 and its caused a bit of a stir, but it provides a lot of useful info for people thinking of getting Naim gear or improving it.

that thread is exactly what i hate about naim! some people are so convinced that there is no other alternative it drives me mad
its also far to expensive!
linn im not so sure on, as although my hifi is naim/linn i was that blown away by the ds kit i just bought the most expensive one i could afford and didnt really take any notice of the rest of thier range
naim kit, in my view, speaking from experience has to be quite cleverly selected!

i for example would never by a naim source (maybe the 555 if it wasnt so many £££££) i dint like how my cd5 sounded and i dont like the cdx2 both far to shouty!
the hdx is poorly thought out and WAY to much money!! why they put the hdd inside it is beyond me!

the aplification to my ears though is top notch!
the problem for me - im starting to out grow it, dont get me wrong i love the sound... i just want something a little better
so whats the next step? 282/hc/250? well i have a hc so thats £1000 i dont need to spend! but where am i going to get the other £6250 .... £6250 for the next logical upgrade!! i could get it second hand for maybe £4000 .... eff that

so whats my alternative skimp and save for baby step upgrades for the rest of my life, or try and find a company like avondale that make what apear to be highly regarded equipment for much less money because they have next to know overheads....
erm yeah ... i think il do that thanks!!

and dont even get me started on the rude, arogant, morons on the naim forum... talk about eliteist atitude.. that place brough the worst out in me to a point i was going on there to try and get a reaction.... tossers the lot of them (apart from norman and ian)

to summerise, for the most part i love naim kit (apart from the sources) the speakers and amps are fantastic... overpriced, but very good none the less.
edited

[The Vinyl Adventure]

should i edit out the bit i call them nazi's ... serious question... have i gone to far?