Attractions of a good CDP V's Stand alone DAC

[Reffc]

I've been wondering for a while why people have been ditching their CDPs in favour of DAC-rolling. Few people I come across in the hifi world have bought a DAC and kept it for longer than a year or two at most. The quest for ever higher resolution and flexibility sees people treat DACs a little like disposable bits of electronic hardware a little like upgrading a PC to the next best thing every year or two. It's sort of made it into a very large disposable sector and most DACs are treated like cartridges....kept for a while until the next flavour of the month turns up when they're chopped in. This raises two interesting (at least for me) observations:

Firstly, there's the environmental cost of this constant race. Answers on a postcard, but it is a valid point (most get recycled on the used market but eventually must be dumpedrecycled like most other stuff. The difference is that it creates a larger than life market for new stuff although this can be levelled at other areas too; it is an industry after all )

Secondly, it puzzles me that more people aren't buying CDPs with the flexibility of a stand alone DAC as that way, all formats can be enjoyed. After all, to legally hang onto ripped tunes from CD, the CD itself has to be kept in ownership.

Most decent CDPs will have several digital inputs (Optical, S/PDIF, some even have USB) and outputs and be equipped with the latest must-have 24-bit DAC chipsets.

Is it just then a question of fashion and space requirements? The only reason I can see is where someone starting a system from scratch obtains all music from downloads and wants the convenience of full remote access and storage of a music library. Be interesting to get the thoughts of those who've taken a concious decision to go this route, and whether they have any regrets at all?

[dave2010]

Reminds me a bit of the time when I used to buy a new PU cartridge most years, or at least it felt like it. I still have some of them. Some were clearly improvements on their predecessors, and some were just different. Mostly they were cheaper than buying a complete turntable set up frequently, though.

[Yomanze]

For me the attraction of a DAC is the lack of moving parts and the flexibility. I like being able to use a CD transport without worry that if it breaks, then the whole unit needs fixing. Appreciate that many newer CDPs have digital inputs though...

I pretty much listen to CD and vinyl exclusively, and don't use streaming or computer-based audio, but if I make that move then the DAC'll be ready to take it. The DAC is also something that I don't intend to ever change...

I know what you mean though in that DACs seem to be a component that gets chopped and changed around a lot judging by forum chatter.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Costs possibly?

I decent transport and DAC works out cheaper than hi end esoterica?

Just my 2 bob's worth.

[WAD62]

I went the separate DAC route back in '98 when I bought my Audiolab 8000 CDM/DAX combo...

The CDM transport was pensioned off to the attic in 2009, with the advent of my Squeezebox server and client system, whist the DAX was used in my main system coupled with a Squeezebox up until 2011, when it was superseded by my then new MDAC.

The DAX is now in use in my 3rd system, so I've only had it 16 years...very disposable!

I doubt I'll be replacing my MDAC for another 10 years too

Modularity is what it's all about

[nat8808]

I think it's probably quite simple..

The CD player used as a transport with the best looks and user experience and build quality is either going to be out of many people's budget, not sound as good as the latest DAC they heard or simply doesn't come with a DAC with external inputs..

There are many many people out there who only justify having a CD player at all because it was relatively cheap secondhand, is built like a tank (you can't get that build quality any more new without spending multi-thousands) and has classic chunky looks that are still appreciated.

In other words, people use their DACs for other sources besides CD and a CD Transport is a cheap extra or a retro-statement product.


Dac swapping is the same as any other box-swapping I guess - part of the hobby of hifi. People like Lampizator and DIYers on DIYaudio.com have made quite a lot of the different sounds coming from different DAC chips and implementations (e.g. NOS) over the years - people want to experiment and hear the differences for themselves.

Then the tech still hasn't settled down yet either - people might stop swapping once say DSD512 is standard in DACs with all the inputs they need like a sorted USB.

For me, whilst not much of a DAC swapper, I'd much rather have a DAC which does it all than seperate DACs in items each doing their own thing - want to be able to compare the different formats through the same DAC and reduce the variables as much as possible.

Even secondhand CD players with external DAC inputs are relatively expensive as they are fairly new items that were high-end (in the last 5 - 10 years). Then what is out there is probably still only 24/96K and so I'd need yet another DAC to try out DSD or 192K files I've got.


I'm more into thinking about DIY DACs though at the moment, hence not big on DAC swapping myself.

[Reffc]

Yes, I guess that transports are cheap these days but as ever, there's several camps. Those who say they matter and those who don't. As for me, I'm very happy to be lucky enough to have a one box solution with a superb on-board DAC (I haven't heard anything better so will probably not go down the external DAC route). I think that most DACs even on cheaper CDPs these days are very good and even mid-budget models come with multiple inputs and outputs so there's seemingly no reason for going down the separates route than to have a more discrete DAC with multiple inputs of one's choice and with the advent of decent DACs at bargain basement prices (like the Sabre-chipped DACs) cost is also a good argument I guess.

[nat8808]

CD Transports certainly matter to me in terms of build quality and enjoyment of use - heavy build, good displays, different designs ..

So many cd players today use the very same CD-Pro2 + display standard bundle that they are all as boring as hell in terms of looks!

I'd rather have a Marantz CD95, a studio player like my Tascam CD701 with unique red LED display, jogwheel remote, or something with really heavy build like Marco's CDP x777es.

So even if you don't think they matter sonically, in terms of pride of ownership and enjoyment of their build quality (solidly built trays which don't rattle around and sound plastic as they go in and out) there are other reasons to choose them (and even hide the DAC out of the way). The solid clonk of the Meridian 602 I have is joyful in its own way - the draw (which carries the mech) seems so powerful that it almost moves the whole transport as it hits the end stop, would do if it didn't have grippy rubber feet. Then there's the glass front, the uncommon 90s Meridian green dot matrix display and unusual long buttons.. yum!

What player do you have out of interest and what sample rates can it handle?

[Reffc]

CD Transports certainly matter to me in terms of build quality and enjoyment of use - heavy build, good displays, different designs ..

So many cd players today use the very same CD-Pro2 + display standard bundle that they are all as boring as hell in terms of looks!

I'd rather have a Marantz CD95, a studio player like my Tascam CD701 with unique red LED display, jogwheel remote, or something with really heavy build like Marco's CDP x777es.

So even if you don't think they matter sonically, in terms of pride of ownership and enjoyment of their build quality (solidly built trays which don't rattle around and sound plastic as they go in and out) there are other reasons to choose them (and even hide the DAC out of the way). The solid clonk of the Meridian 602 I have is joyful in its own way - the draw (which carries the mech) seems so powerful that it almost moves the whole transport as it hits the end stop, would do if it didn't have grippy rubber feet. Then there's the glass front, the uncommon 90s Meridian green dot matrix display and unusual long buttons.. yum!

What player do you have out of interest and what sample rates can it handle?

Amen to that Nat.

I have a couple at the moment....

This one:



and this one:



The Droplet is a NOS player but can be configured for 88.2/176.4 it Uses TAD 1543 chipsets (16 bit)

The Accuphase I've only had as of today and couldn't tell you much except it's 24 bit linear and sounds pretty good.

[jandl100]

I've enjoyed both integrated CDPs and CDT/DAC combos recently.
I don't think it is correct to say that one way is better than another.

A point in favour of the CDT/DAC route is that (assuming you find, as I do, that sound quality of transports is as variable as that of DACs) you are asking a single component to do two jobs - separating them into two separate boxes allows you to choose the transport and DAC sonic synergy that best suits you, rather than leaving it to the commercial choice of the CDP manufacturer.
-- you can also have fun cableswapping digital connections and have different audiophile mains cables going to each component.