Car (or bike) Chat!

[dave2010]

Not sure I really care. The levels of pollution from domestic vehicles is tiny compared to other sources.

And anyway, isn't the term 'climate change' these days, Global Warming being somewhat in danger of being a descredited theory these days? It's all a bit vague, largely due to the huge amounts of 'data' they throw at anybody who challenges the idea, in an attempt to bury them.

Agenda driven bollox is what it looks like to me.

Sorry - I disagree with you completely about the global warming/climate change thing. What agenda do you think it is anyway?

However, there is a problem re the UK. Even if the UK goes to zero CO2 + greenhouse gases, the USA, China and to a lesser extent India, are all major contributors to the issue, so those countries need to get themselves sorted. That's not a terribly good excuse for the UK though, but it is a tenable one. Whether if the UK does try to show the way will make any difference to those countries remains to be seen - perhaps not - which is very sad.

[dave2010]

Thanks. Yes, have read similar before. A point that concerns me is where are all the rare raw materials to manufacture the batteries coming from.

I think Argentina is a major source - though this site mentions others - https://www.thermofisher.com/blog/mi...cars-be-mined/

http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/10/08...ium-come-from/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-l...6963X920101007 This site also mentions Argentina and Chile.

[walpurgis]

I disagree with you completely about the global warming/climate change thing. What agenda do you think it is anyway?

Which bit of my comment specifically did you disagree with?

And the agenda is of course money.

[Ali Tait]

Seems to me a good way to go would be to standardise the battery packs so they can be swapped at stations- that way existing petrol stations could be used.

[walpurgis]

I think Argentina is a major source - though this site mentions others - https://www.thermofisher.com/blog/mi...cars-be-mined/

http://zerocarbonista.com/2008/10/08...ium-come-from/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-l...6963X920101007 This site also mentions Argentina and Chile.

Lithium may not remain the main electrolyte component of vehicle batteries.

[dave2010]

Which bit of my comment specifically did you disagree with?

And the agenda is of course money.

I disagree 95% with the notion that climate change/global warming is discredited.

Re the money agenda - what in particular? Big business? "Investment" from other countries? There's probably always going to be money involved, but it's just a question of who gets it. Shareholders in oil companies and related industries might not want to have competition from electric vehicles, though in fact many are investigating those. There'll be money to be made (lost?) whether in oil, electricity, hydrogen based fuels etc., and providing relevant service infrastructure, so it's just a matter of which group of individuals or industries are favoured.

What really gets up my nose is foreign "investors" in the UK buying up land and/or real estate (sometimes in conglomerates) then trying to dictate or affect planning policy.

I think Switzerland has the right idea there.

[dave2010]

Seems to me a good way to go would be to standardise the battery packs so they can be swapped at stations- that way existing petrol stations could be used.

That has been suggested, and indeed one electric car manufacturer (Renault) has a battery leasing scheme - not quite the same - but part of the way there. Unfortunately, it's a rather expensive way to do things - the price of the car is reduced a bit, but then the leasing costs are higher than if the batteries are bought outright. The other thing that Renault do is price the battery pack very high - it's actually higher than the cost of the car!

One thing which is still a significant problem though is freight vehicles. In the USA Tesla is developing batteries for trucks, but for long distance/heavy work oil based fuels are still the only really sensible way. This will still be an issue in the UK, even if most private cars switch to other energy forms.

Long distance buses/coaches may also present problems.

[dave2010]

Lithium may not remain the main electrolyte component of vehicle batteries.

Agreed.

[Ali Tait]

That has been suggested, and indeed one electric car manufacturer (Renault) has a battery leasing scheme - not quite the same - but part of the way there. Unfortunately, it's a rather expensive way to do things - the price of the car is reduced a bit, but then the leasing costs are higher than if the batteries are bought outright. The other thing that Renault do is price the battery pack very high - it's actually higher than the cost of the car!

One thing which is still a significant problem though is freight vehicles. In the USA Tesla is developing batteries for trucks, but for long distance/heavy work oil based fuels are still the only really sensible way. This will still be an issue in the UK, even if most private cars switch to other energy forms.

Long distance buses/coaches may also present problems.

Yes, mentioned that in a previous post, how will commercial traffic be powered. It’s all well and good banging on about cars and their effect on the environment, people should look at the pollution caused by worldwide shipping.

[Ali Tait]

I would have thought that if a standard could be agreed for batteries across all the car manufacturers, prices would come down once uptake reaches past a certain level, you’d only in effect be paying for the charge in the batteries