Sony A9 Master Series KE48A9 OLED winging its way to Marco Towers!

[Macca]

Such as?

I don't disagree with your first statement, but what about all the speakers most folk can afford? Some of those 'large advances in materials technology' should be trickling down to make them good too, instead of merely mediocre, or worse.

Plus, as we've discussed before, I've heard a couple of notable examples of modern 'very expensive' speakers recently, such as the Magicos and Tannoy Kingdom Royals, and both were hugely disappointing, regardless of how advanced the materials they used were, when both should've blew me away, so what does that tell you?

Back in the day, when the speakers I use now were new (Celestions or Tannoys), there was no shortage of budget, mid-priced or even (affordably expensive, as in not 'house price') great sounding speakers to choose from, so where has it gone wrong?

Marco.

I think there are excellent speakers at any price-point. I don't think that has changed. You can't just pick two you didn't personally like as examples, there are probably 500 to a 1000 choices in that price range.

[Macca]

Also I don't know why everyone keeps going on about young people not having the space for a proper hi-fi. You can easily fit a proper system into a box room. I did for years.

I think the real problem is that these youngsters like to pretend they are executives on £100K a year so they live flash lifestyles, get into debt, and then have no money for anything. Seen it happen.

[Marco]

I think there are excellent speakers at any price-point. I don't think that has changed. You can't just pick two you didn't personally like as examples, there are probably 500 to a 1000 choices in that price range.

Well, I've yet to hear many, which is why I've stopped going to hi-fi shows! There's simply no point, if almost every room you go into, you think the sound of, not just the speakers, but the systems as a whole, is poor or merely mediocre.

The last Bristol show I went to, which caters more for mainstream stuff, highlighted that fact after, trust me, I had listened to a plethora of £1000-£2000 systems/speakers and under - and that wasn't the case back in the 80s and 90s when such shows would produce regular 'wow' moments.

The two examples of 'very expensive speakers' I've highlighted, which didn't do it for me, are only two of many. I've heard plenty more that were very disappointing, considering the huge cost. I'm sure I'm not alone here either in thinking that.

Marco.

[Marco]

Also I don't know why everyone keeps going on about young people not having the space for a proper hi-fi. You can easily fit a proper system into a box room. I did for years.

I think the real problem is that these youngsters like to pretend they are executives on £100K a year so they live flash lifestyles, get into debt, and then have no money for anything. Seen it happen.

Nah, it just doesn't fit with their lifestyle. For them, listening to music is something mostly done on the move, or at least with the minimum 'paraphernalia' required possible. I've talked to enough of them about it, when the subject comes up (which it often does), as has Del, as she deals with teenagers on a daily basis.

She's even shown them pictures of my system on AoS, for those who were curious, as a few of them are into Technics T/Ts, with vinyl being considered as a 'cool thing', and their faces are priceless, lol. They think it's great, but they'd never do anything like that (or even vaguely approaching it) themselves.

Marco.

[Macca]

Well, I've yet to hear many, which is why I've stopped going to hi-fi shows! There's simply no point, if almost every room you go into, you think the sound of, not just the speakers, but the systems as a whole, is poor or merely mediocre.

The last Bristol show I went to, which caters more for mainstream stuff, highlighted that fact after, trust me, I had listened to a plethora of £1000-£2000 systems/speakers and under - and that wasn't the case back in the 80s and 90s when such shows would produce regular 'wow' moments.

The two examples of 'very expensive speakers' I've highlighted, which didn't do it for me, are only some of many. I've heard plenty more that were very disappointing, considering the huge cost. I'm sure I'm not alone here either in thinking that.

Marco.

My experience is similar but the little shows we have in this country only have a tiny fraction of what is actually available. You could dedicate the rest of your life to listening to high end (£10K plus) speakers and still not cover all the bases.

[Macca]

Nah, it just doesn't fit with their lifestyle. For them, listening to music is something mostly done on the move, or at least with the minimum 'paraphernalia' required possible. I've talked to enough of them about it, as has Del, as she deals with teenagers on a daily basis, when the subject comes up, which it often does.

She's even shown them pictures of my system on AoS, for those who were curious, as a few of them are into Technics T/Ts, with vinyl being considered as a 'cool thing', and their faces are priceless, lol. They think it's great, but they'd never do anything like that (or even vaguely approaching it) themselves.

Marco.

Small powered speakers, connect their phone up to them via Blutooth - job done. How much paraphernalia is that? They already have the phone and acceptable speakers start at about £200. When I was a student it was rare to come across anyone who didn't have some sort of music replay in their digs, even if it was an old music centre or a walkman into powered speakers. And that was back when that stuff was at least twice as expensive as it is now. There's no excuse.

They need to learn how to be proper students while they've still got the chance.

I've always said that people are put off from getting involved in hi-fi by the perceived expense and by the idea that the cheap stuff will be no good. Maybe true 20 years ago but now you can buy cheap kit with good performance, new or used.

Do they ever give a reason for why they would not consider it themselves?

[Marco]

My experience is similar but the little shows we have in this country only have a tiny fraction of what is actually available. You could dedicate the rest of your life to listening to high end (£10K plus) speakers and still not cover all the bases.

Yes, but the point is, the "little shows" we have in this country should be ably good enough at demonstrating what extreme high-end audio can do! You shouldn't have to go elsewhere searching for it.

And as I've said, the very same shows, throughout the 80s and 90s, contained all sorts of gems that you could only wonder at and aspire to. That's simply not the case now, so something has changed - and not for the better.

Marco.

[Marco]

Small powered speakers, connect their phone up to them via Blutooth - job done. How much paraphernalia is that? They already have the phone and acceptable speakers start at about £200. When I was a student it was rare to come across anyone who didn't have some sort of music replay in their digs, even if it was an old music centre or a walkman into powered speakers. And that was back when that stuff was at least twice as expensive as it is now. There's no excuse.

They need to learn how to be proper students while they've still got the chance.

I've always said that people are put off from getting involved in hi-fi by the perceived expense and by the idea that the cheap stuff will be no good. Maybe true 20 years ago but now you can buy cheap kit with good performance, new or used.

Do they ever give a reason for why they would not consider it themselves?

It's just not their thing, mate, not their mindset. Until you've spent some time with youths, as I have, and got a handle on how they 'tick', in that respect, you won't appreciate where I'm coming from.

In terms of this:

Small powered speakers, connect their phone up to them via Blutooth - job done. How much paraphernalia is that?

Yes, but it's still more than a portable music player and a pair of headphones...

The problem is, they've been conditioned to listen to music 'internally', through headphones, not externally, via the use of full-sized speakers, so unlike you and I, find the latter unnatural. For us, it would more likely be the other way round, although personally I enjoy headphone listening.

The other key issue is this: youngsters today simply aren't accustomed to sitting down in front of a hi-fi system, of any description, and listening to music, or indeed concentrating on *any* one thing for more than a few minutes. Therefore, their music listening is done whilst participating on social media, chatting to their friends or whatever, and played through their earbuds, but it's rarely their sole focus.

Watch any teenager today, and how they interact with their phones, and if they have earbuds, or the likes of BEATS headphones on, while listening to music, they'll also be typing away at the same time, chatting to their friends or whatever. Very rarely will they just sit there and do nothing else but listen to music - even when they're walking down the street!

That's why, unlike you and I, the idea of setting up some sort of hi-fi system at home, whatever form it would take, and using it to sit and listen to music for hours on end, is completely alien to them.

Yes, if there was a screen involved, and it was part of an overall INTERACTIVE [key word] home-entertainment system, where they could also watch movies or use apps to go online and access YouTube, Netflix, their social media accounts etc, which is what Smart TVs are all about, but not a dedicated music-only system that they can't interact with in the same way.

The ones who would be into doing that would be few and far between. It's just how it is.

Marco.

[Gazjam]

Such as?

I don't disagree with your first statement, but what about all the speakers most folk can afford? Some of those 'large advances in materials technology' should be trickling down to make them good too, instead of merely mediocre, or worse.

Marco.

[Wharfedale Evo 4.4's have entered the chat]



'Trickle down technology' from Wharfedale's flagship Elysian 4.4, a £6.5k speaker, designed by Peter Comeau.

Google him, speaker designer of some note...He did the Heybrook HB2 back in the day.

What technology?
What Hifi's review of the Evo 4.4s covers the bases, I agree with all they are saying here.
Describes these speakers well.
https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/wharfedale-evo-44

I had my heart set on a pair of Sonus Faber Sonetto 5 floorstanders, nearly £4.5 K, and saved up to get them.
At that time,
Wharfedale's Elysian/Evo series was launched and I kept reading how they had massive performance for their given price points.
I read about the AMT tweeter, the design philosophy behind them, interviews with Peter Comeau as well as YouTube demos of the Evo 4.4s.

Over time I got really curious about these new speakers, curious enough to put a pause on the Sonus Fabers.
Could save a bit of money here?

Local Hifi Dealer stocks Sonus Faber, and as a long standing customer they were happy to get a set of the Sonetto 5's in for demo, no problem to sell them afterwards they said.

Bought a pair of Evo 4.4s from Richer Sounds (free 6 year guarantee!!) but could return them no problem if I wished.
Great Service from Richers Glasgow, highly recommended.

Did the comparative demo,
had the funds for the Sonus Fabers, but came away thinking the speakers were 'different' not 1 better than the other.
Big shock actually,
And happy I took the trouble to hear my 'Unicorn' speaker against something more real world, but with a strong Designer and design philosophy behind them, and Trickle Down technology from a speaker EVEN MORE advanced/expensive than the Sonus Faber.

I preferred what the Evo 4.4s did over the Sonus'.
The SF were slightly more refined, a.silkier sound, but to the point of being 'mannered' and putting a sheen over the music.
Soundstage noticeably more shut in compared to the Evo too,with its AMT tweeters.

Wharfedale sounded more neutral, more relaxed, yet at the same time with more get up n go.
But most importantly,
They did a better job of getting out the way and presenting the music, AS IS, without smoothing things over, giving a 'posher' more refined (READ: less engaging) listen.

The Wharfedales just put you in the room, there's a level of realism in timbre and the soundstage they throw up that can be spooky at times.

Yes,
I like these speakers, and no, I don't regret these over my 'Unicorn' Sonus Fabers.
THESE are endgame speakers,
I've hooked them up with good quality Amps many times their cost, and the speakers are letting me hear what my kit can really do.

SO:
A modern speaker, with modern materials, trickled down from far more expensive models, at an affordable price.





future classics in my book.


Background on Peter Comeau and his Elysian/Evo series:
https://theaudiophileman.com/elysian...ws-wharfedale/

And interview with the man himself, speaker tech, and speaker for music vs Measuring Tool.
https://www.hifianswers.com/2020/10/138077/

1 more:

[Marco]

Lol - I was waiting for you to do that, and it took longer than expected!!

Of course there are always exceptions, which is why I said many, not all, modern speakers don't do it for me (and I was thinking of your speakers as an exception). I've not heard the Wharfedales, but don't doubt they're good, as I trust your ears

In any case, they certainly give you a lot for your dosh, even just taking into consideration the materials used. I'd like to see much more similar examples in today's market.

Awesome system pic at the beginning, btw.

Marco.