Sony A9 Master Series KE48A9 OLED winging its way to Marco Towers!

[Marco]

When it comes to speakers I think that there have been some quite large advances in both materials technology and in the research, it just doesn't get employed in a lot of speakers due to cost. And a lot of very expensive speakers that do employ it tend to be quite odd performers for other, albeit deliberate, reasons.

Such as?

I don't disagree with your first statement, but what about all the speakers most folk can afford? Some of those 'large advances in materials technology' should be trickling down to make them good too, instead of merely mediocre, or worse.

Plus, as we've discussed before, I've heard a couple of notable examples of modern 'very expensive' speakers recently, such as the Magicos and Tannoy Kingdom Royals, and both were hugely disappointing, regardless of how advanced the materials they used were, when both should've blew me away, so what does that tell you?

Back in the day, when the speakers I use now were new (Celestions or Tannoys), there was no shortage of budget, mid-priced or even (affordably expensive, as in not 'house price') great sounding speakers to choose from, so where has it gone wrong?

Marco.

[Marco]

For me there is only one reference point - that of live un-amplified music, such as orchestral symphonies or small-scale string ensembles and solo performers.

If my system can provide me with illusion of an un-amplified concert, then that is all I ask.

Me too, although as I'm also into rock music, some of it pretty heavy, I like to recreate some of the visceral intensity and scale of an amplified rock gig, which I get with the Tannoys upstairs, as those big 15" drivers, in conjunction with the Copper amp, can really shift air!

To hell with fashions in sound: if the younger generation are content with their iPhone + earbuds, and in using them ultimately compromise their hearing, with speaker manufacturers having to tailor the sound of their speakers to satisfy these new consumers, then I'm not going to go along with the trend.

Yup, I've always done my own thing with hi-fi and generally bucked trends. Trends are for sheep-like, lazy-arsed idiots, devoid of their own ideas!

However, I would say in terms of youngsters today that not all of them are as you describe. I've had a few round here, most recently a couple of Del's students and also some of her younger girlfriends in their 20s, and having heard both of my systems, they can certainly appreciate a good sound!

Marco.

[Pharos]

For me there is only one reference point - that of live un-amplified music, such as orchestral symphonies or small-scale string ensembles and solo performers.

If my system can provide me with illusion of an un-amplified concert, then that is all I ask.

To hell with fashions in sound: if the younger generation are content with their iPhone + earbuds, and in using them ultimately compromise their hearing, with speaker manufacturers having to tailor the sound of their speakers to satisfy these new consumers, then I'm not going to go along with the trend.

Agree with all you say, but the particular problem I have is with the spoken word. Back in my BBC days they employed announcers who spoke received pronunciation, especially for World Service where clarity for non English speakers was important. The studios were lined with very expensive wooden absorbent and care was taken with good mics, STC 4003, to get the distances right.

Fashions in sound are a result IMO of what seems to be the 'new truth'; remember IBs, then passives, and now ports. Aluminium fascia's, then champagne, then black.

Now voices are all over the place, just try listening to Woman's Hour, often nothing above 1k, inarticulate idiots with nothing of much value to say, hence a lack of clarity allows them not to be held to account for what they say.

So in the absence of a reference I am trying another set of speakers as a comparison. 29Hz to 18kHz +/- 0.5 dB is surely good enough.

[Pharos]

Such as?

I don't disagree with your first statement, but what about all the speakers most folk can afford? Some of those 'large advances in materials technology' should be trickling down to make them good too, instead of merely mediocre, or worse.

Plus, as we've discussed before, I've heard a couple of notable examples of modern 'very expensive' speakers recently, such as the Magicos and Tannoy Kingdom Royals, and both were hugely disappointing, regardless of how advanced the materials they used were, when both should've blew me away, so what does that tell you?

Back in the day, when the speakers I use now were new (Celestions or Tannoys), there was no shortage of budget, mid-priced or even (affordably expensive, as in not 'house price') great sounding speakers to choose from, so where has it gone wrong?

Marco.

I think the now abundance of available Heils is a good example, now that the 25 years have gone, and many are very good; I am a great fan, even of the original.

Don't you have a Hoola hoop and drive a C5 then?

[Barry]

Nice one... Trust me though, you'd feel exactly the same if you saw the picture I'm getting here with this new (merely 4k, lol) Sony, compared with what you're getting from your LG!

Marco.

I doubt it. There were OLED 4K TVs by most of the main manufacturers on show, and none of them came close to the detail displayed by the 8K set. It was one of the few examples of the much cliché'd "night and day difference", that actually held true.

[Pigmy Pony]

However, I would say in terms of youngsters today that not all of them are as you describe. I've had a few round here, most recently a couple of Del's students and also some of her younger girlfriends in their 20s, and having heard both of my systems, they can certainly appreciate a good sound!

Marco.

I can well believe that these young visitors made appreciative sounds about your set ups, but how many have asked you how they can get that sort of sound in their own homes? And are actively doing something about it? I'm not saying they can't recognise good sound when they hear it, just that they're really not that bothered.

'Music on the move' is where it's at for most kids, and this demand is fulfilled by smartphones, iPods etc, in conjunction with streaming services. And the sound they get is probably tailored for "whizz-bang listen to this" tunes. Values such as depth, imaging and soundstage mean nothing when walking to the bus stop.

Also for younger people, space tends to be in short supply (either still living at home or in a flat or starter home), so omly space for their clothes, iPad and X-Box. No way are they going to make room for speakers that remind them of grandma's chest of drawers

Always room for a big telly though

[Marco]

I think the now abundance of available Heils is a good example, now that the 25 years have gone, and many are very good; I am a great fan, even of the original.

Sorry, what are "Heils"? Never heard of them... The C5 was comically bad, lol!

Marco.

[Marco]

I doubt it. There were OLED 4K TVs by most of the main manufacturers on show, and none of them came close to the detail displayed by the 8K set. It was one of the few examples of the much cliché'd "night and day difference", that actually held true.

I meant your TV in comparison with a 4K OLED, not a 4K OLED in comparison with an 8K one. I'm presuming that your current LG isn't an OLED...

Trust me, if not, the difference with the former will be similarly big!

Marco.

[Marco]

I can well believe that these young visitors made appreciative sounds about your set ups, but how many have asked you how they can get that sort of sound in their own homes? And are actively doing something about it? I'm not saying they can't recognise good sound when they hear it, just that they're really not that bothered.

'Music on the move' is where it's at for most kids, and this demand is fulfilled by smartphones, iPods etc, in conjunction with streaming services. And the sound they get is probably tailored for "whizz-bang listen to this" tunes. Values such as depth, imaging and soundstage mean nothing when walking to the bus stop.

Also for younger people, space tends to be in short supply (either still living at home or in a flat or starter home), so omly space for their clothes, iPad and X-Box. No way are they going to make room for speakers that remind them of grandma's chest of drawers

Always room for a big telly though

All good and valid points, Piggurs. I guess the closest I've come to that is convincing a couple of them to invest in a quality (hi-fi branded) portable music player and Sennheiser headphones, at a combined cost of £800, to replace their iPhone and cheap ear buds as a music source - prompted by their experience at mine and showing them what was possible.. One of them was also going to buy a turntable.

So that wasn't bad, but you're right, standalone 2-channel home audio systems, for the young, aren't really a thing, for all the reasons you say. The closest to that, because, as you say, a big TV will always be desired, would be to incorporate their music listening/streaming with their movie viewing [effectively creating a 'home entertainment system'], and possibly using some decent external speakers with that, a bit like I do in the lounge system.

My main point though was that, it's not about youngers signing up to a trend of loudspeakers being 'voiced' a specific way, which was muted earlier (and as I said I believe said voicing happens), and by default them all wanting THAT type of sound, (or the artificially 'pumped up' drone of cheap earbuds). Clearly, as I've outlined, they can easily appreciate something much better, and will spend the money to get it, as good sound is important to them. Or at least it is for those who care enough about such to invest in it (and can afford it), but in that respect they're no different from older people, as not everyone is an audio enthusiast, for portable music-listening or otherwise.

The challenge therefore, if we're to keep quality 2-channel hi-fi alive in future, is to convince youngsters (give them a reason) to invest in such systems when they have the space to accommodate them - and very few, if any, of our traditional hi-fi dealerships, mainly run by middle-aged men, or older, have a clue how to go about that, as they're all still living in the past!

Marco.

[walpurgis]

Sorry, what are "Heils"? Never heard of them...

Marco.

Air Motion Transformer speaker drive units, developed by Dr Oskar Heil.

https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/ess_amt_e.html

The sound quality can be quite remarkable.